Guild Wars 2

Zenguy.6421:

And it seems to be the only burst Eng build . . . so figure out how to avoid it.

Well there are a few burst builds based on static discharge, but they aren’t as fast as 100nades.

Lebannen.8325:

amiable.4823:

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

1) If you are looking to forums for stupidly named builds. Then you really shouldnt play the engineer.

2) If you are unable to do research on your own, to design a build, trait and equipment to fit your playstyle and reaction time. You shouldnt play an engineer.

3) If you rely on youtube to teach you how to play a class. Then you need to play some easy game like Call of Duty.

That’s not what I was really trying to say (I do fine on my engineer), but thanks for being a kitten about it!

Lebannen.8325:

LOL at you trying to say an engineer DPS is on par with other classes. It only shows you how much you are trying to protect the thief class.

I dont care if they remove stealth, in fact I encourage it.

They desperately need a sarcasm emote on these forums. ;-)

Lebannen.8325:

Its ok, just admit it. I play an engineer.

Then you know how badly engineer’s stealth toolbelt s skill needs a nerf. Being able to stealth 50% of the time (its random) on a 60 second cooldown is ridic. With the insane DPS an engineer can pump out on practically every spec, this needs to be looked at. Devs get on this please.

The funny thing about engineer “versatility” is that most of decent the engi builds fall into the “one-trick” pony category (100nades, the new confusion builds, static discharge, Tankcat). This is not to say these builds are easy to play, quite the contrary most folks need to play extremely well to execute their strategy, but in the end if the opponent dodges or recognize the “trick” there is little the Engineer can do to counter.

You will be much happier if you just give up and roll another class. At this point it is obvious that ANET thinks we are generally fine as a class or just do not have the resources to do proper balance testing. It will probably take an expansion to get an appropriate class re-vamp. If you like the kit mechanic may I recommend the elementalist… Lot’s of good PvE and WvW/PvP builds in that class, if you are good at kit switching your skill will transfer over quite easily. If you want to continue to play an engineer you just need to accept you are playing the “hard-mode” class. You will need to put in more work for less results. (Also get used to getting nerfed every patch, mitigated by a small series of bug-fixes/buffs to hide it).

Phineas Poe.3018:

amiable.4823:

your crits are much weaker than someone in bezerkers.

25%, to be exact.

It amuses me that you call this “useless theorycrafting” even though JohnDied tested out the stuff I’ve posted and others and agrees that the FT is way better than you guys are bantering about.

You can see peoples’ minds change over the course of just a couple pages.

Fact is: use it or don’t. I’m just offering an alternative way to play the game that actually works and doesn’t have anything to do with the Grenade Kit.

Peace.

Full zerkers gear increases crit damage by 50% not counting runes and sigils. If you are having fun, good on you, but a novice picking up this thread should be made aware of the relatively serious shortcomings of what you are suggesting vis-a-vis other alternative builds.

Phineas Poe.3018:

1. No offense, but I don’t really care enough to do that. I’m willing to talk about this here over a few posts but I’m not going to go to such lengths as that. I feel like I’ve wasted enough time trying to convince people around here that the Flamethrower is a viable option. At this point you can try it yourself or stick with what you have. No skin off my back.

2. Except Knight’s/Soldier’s offer the same amount of Power per slot as Berserker’s does? With an even higher crit percentage?

Look at it yourself. The only thing you lose out on is critical damage in favor of Toughness/Vitality. Which I’ll gladly take any day of the week when I’m facing difficult content.

3. I do have a full set of Berserker’s and Ruby jewelry on hand at any time if the group needs additional DPS. It’s amazing how much you can fit into those 18-slot invisible bags.

No offense, but then all you are really doing is useless theorycrafting (but that has been pointed out repeatedly by plenty of folks). As to point 2, I don’t even know what you are saying here. You are losing a massive amount of damage in knights gear because even if you crit slightly more often your crits are much weaker than someone in bezerkers. Point 3: good for you!

If you are wearing knights gear then you are doing significantly less damage because of the synergy lost on the +crit percentage. But hey, post a video of you using a flamethrower spec in WvW solo/group play, show us how it is viable.

This design decision reminds me very much of the Ghostcrawler/Cataclysm debacle. I like to play the game with friends ho may not be as awesome at dodging as me, or might just be a melee class that experiences latency. Making every dungeon an enormous pain in the kitten is not solving the problem. If you feel experienced folks are running it to often for rewards, tweak the reward structure, don’t make the experience a punch in the kitten.

SixSins.7610:

An Elementalist who wants to tank with CC has the same problem.

Uh, lol, no. The most popular elementalist build is a bunker with a metric ton of cc.

Maskaganda.2043:

if immobilizes are your problem try traiting cloaking device. it’s a life saver.

I mainly play solo or in small groups, but I do get into larger fights at times, check my build, maybe you get some ideas for yours: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/New-build-new-wvw-movie

I just finished gearing up and have tried this build over the past few days and I give it a huge thumbs up. (I replaced the main hand sigil with the might on crit one for more might stacking, and I am using sub par runes because I need to run ac to get the superior monk but everything else is roughly the same). Survivability is terrific and damage is not bad (I am always amazed at the number of folks in wvw who will slaughter themselves with retaliation/confusion).

I’m not anywhere near as good as Mask but this is the only build I have tried where I feel I can really hold my own against thieves and mesmers. Thieves will usually get you down to half health with a quick burst but then you confuse, burn and poison them. Most think they are going to get a quick kill and can’t react fast enough when you turn the tables.

This is also quit a good zerg build. In small group/zergs i sometimes switch out Elixir C for Elixir gun. The new patch lets you combo Super elixir and acid bomb to give you a reliable way to give area retaliation, which is huge when doing group work. But when running around solo or with a friend I stick to C.

Long term goals: Grab all the multi stat ascended gear (just got the amulet last night). This build reminds me a lot of my D/D elementalist in the boon stacking multi-damage source department. The multi stat gear i great because you benefit from every stat offensively and defensively.

Even if arguendo your calculations are correct what is the dps difference here?

Rifle 1730
FT 1863

So you gain about 130 dps at the expense of having to be in melee range in a glass cannon spec, with a buggy cone that often doesn’t properly connect? Does not seem like a worthwhile tradeoff to me.

Seetoo.9316:

It just means you scale with power more per sec with just auto.
FT 1.5/2.25 ~ 0.667
rifle 0.599/0.75 ~ 0.799

But we can’t look at FT for its auto alone anymore. The dead zone for FT2 is gone. You have to look at FT1 with FT2 now.

Well then you should include Rifle 3 in your calculations as well. This is very easy to test, put in a berzerker jewel and go into the mists and auto attack with a rifle build, then switch to flamethrower build and do the same. (I am assume you are going to use a semi-optimized build for both, with either an hgh build for rifle or a build focused on the tool lone to mirror standard static discharge builds). If you compare just autoattacks rifle comes out on top (or has for me when i tested), if you compare ft1+2 with rifle 1+3 +static discharge rifle still comes out on top.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Is there something I’m missing here? .

Why yes, yes there is. It’s called scaling coefficients.

FT1 = 1.50 (over 10 hits) .15 per hit
Rifle 1 = .599 scaling per hit

This means that rifles ramp up 3-4 times faster than Flame throwers per point of power. This is multiplied by crit effects and +%crit damage. Your own calculations show a relatively small difference in damage at the BASE level. Even a small addition of power will cause rifle to outstrip flame throwers in a damage per second basis if you are only considering auto attacks.

This isn’t even counting the fact that flamejets divide their damage between power and condition damage, causing them to fall even further behind a pure build that lets you stack pow/prec/crit damage.

Phineas Poe.3018:

amiable.4823:

Considering I could put out as much damage with rifle 1 at far less risk and from much greater range, no.

From much greater range? So you’re using the auto attack and nothing else? Not really great use of the Rifle in my opinion.

That’s the point, I can achieve the same DPS from range using Rifle 1 than I can using the FT kit. I can do much more damage (especially burst) at close range with a rifle kit than a FT.

Phineas Poe.3018:

SilverWF.4789:

You hitting 3 targets under retaliation. If you have good power, especially under 25 Might, Retal will hits you for 400-450 per hit!
So, 5 hits/sec multiple by 3 equal 15. multiple it by 400 equal 6k. Add 2nd second of the Flame Jet – another 6k
You will hit yourself for the TWELVE THOUSANDS damage while your targets will recieve only 4k (5k with crits!) each.

So are we finally coming to a consensus that the Flamethrower is actually a good kit so long as you actually gear properly for it?

Considering I could put out as much damage with rifle 1 at far less risk and from much greater range, no.

Thank you for this! Out of curiosity, is ANET able to release any of the details regarding the WvW update vis-a-vis loot? I know there was talk about allowing folks to get a better variety of gear/ascended gear via WvW and I was curious if you guys had finalized anything yet.

I feel bad no one is going after Engineer stealth in this thread. Being able to have a 50% chance to stealth for 3 seconds every 60 seconds is ridic. Everyone who has been on the receiving end of the massive damage an engineer can do coming out of stealth knows what I’m talking about….

Ojimaru.8970:

Rezzet.3614:

Flamethrower is useless in WvW if you are attacked by a mesmer you are insta dead since the phantasms will have perma retaliation wich means Retaliation x3 x10 hits if you hit all at same time + confusion.

Strawman argument.

1. You are setting a scene where 3 Phantasms (not Clones) are standing stationary, and clumped together. In WvW.

2. You are setting a scenario where 3 Phantasms (not Clones) won’t die within the third or fifth hit of the Flame Jet. Probably with a level 10 Engineer versus a Mesmer with Signet of Illusion, Illusionary Defender, lots of Power and Toughness and other such conditions.

Uh, have you ever played against a mesmer in WvW? They can summon a practically infinite number of these, and most mesmer phantasms take 2-3 aa to kill. Add confusion into that mix as well. This isn’t only a problem with mesmers, most decent teams stack retaliation before going into a fire fight. The self slaughtering problems are not minor in WvW.

There is no way a FT engineer will be able to beat a competent mesmer, and they dont do very well against thieves either. now look at the WvW meta….

Rynn.1324:

It’s pretty obvious at this point that Anet has absolutely no idea what to do with this class.

This. There is a lot of shizophrenia going on in these updates, with major nerfs shrouded in a series of minor buffs. I think they just don’t have a clue what they want to do with the class.

Agree with the OP, a series of meaningless buffs culminating in a major nerf for one of our few effective specs. Anet has a history of doing this, especially with the engineer. Improving FT without addressing the targeting issues and coefficient problems is laughable.

I appreciate the quote. The other half of the equation is the “tax” we pay for the toolbelt skills. Most of the toolbelt skills are weak to the point of almost uselessness (with a few notable exceptions), but we pay a “tax” for the extra skill by making the main utility somewhat less useful and/or substantially increasing its cooldown. Now there are some exceptions (Elixir S and its toolbelt are both pretty good, but again the randomness of the toolbelt is VERY frustrating).

The problems with the Engineer are just a reflection of some of the broader problems this game is having with balance and the synergy between talents and attributes, it’s just more pronounced in engineers. The problem lies in the fact that in PvE and WvW DPS trumps everything (in sPvP bunker builds are useful, but thats basically it). The best way to stack dps is pow/prec/crit damage, because all three of those abilities synergize very well. The Engineer is a true “hybrid” tends to split its dps roughly equally between direct damage and conditions, being mediocre at both. This puts us at the bottom of the food chain from a DPS standpoint because even fully gearing one on the other you will be outperformed by other classes doing the same thing (the exception being a few burst oriented builds like 100nades or and of the static charge builds). Our condition spec is an even worse place as our weapon coefficients for conditions are just downright bad, resulting in laughable effects such as the pistol 1 bleed from a fully condition oriented engineer doing less damage than the bleed from a thief pistol stacking no condition damage. That is compounded by the atrocious mechanics surrounding condition builds in this game resulting in a substantial loss in group DPS if you have more than one condition oriented build in a party. If you are going to take a condition oriented class there is zero reason to take a engineer over a necro.

Grenades (our long range kit) suffer from targeting issues and slow travel time, requiring you to get into melee range or close to it to make them viable in small sale PvE and PvP. Bombs are great for bunkering but not much use outside it. Flamethrower is buggy and does generally poor DPS for a melee ranged weapon. Elixir gun offers decent support but absolutely wretched damage. Toolkit brings nice utility but also sub-par dps for a melee kit. Turrets are just flat out bad, they are weak and do anemic dps.

Even the burst builds we have suffer from “one-trick-pony” syndrome as we usually have to sacrifice between 1-3 utility slots to get them working so once we have completed them we are basically useless for 20 seconds and the lack of utility skills makes escape difficult in a PvW or PvP setting.

Take for example Mesmers, elementalists and thieves, who can both stack utilities that are helpful both offensively and defensively, while putting out far superior damage over time. Even if we have a build that does not focus on kits many of our utilities are flat out worse than comparable utilities in other classes and either possess a significant drawback such as a self root or have a random effect that means most of the time you re rolling the dice and hoping for the effect you want.

In addition to the broken coefficients the class is plagued with innumerate bugs that make many specs unviable. For example:

1. Cone spells don’t track targets properly, and we are the class with by far the most cone spells, 3 of our weapon sets have them, and one of our weapon sets uses it as a main attack. If you turn your camera properly they will work, but that can be difficult in a frenetic pvp or pve setting.

2. Some of our trait are non-funcitonal (scope).

3. Most of the elixir skills do not work with elixir gun elixirs skills.

There are plenty of folks that play Engineers and excel, but many of these people are good players who want a challenge. Invariably they would dominate even more if they chose to play one of the non-broken classes. In general however the average player will work harder and have to play better for a lesser effect (and even better players have the same problem). This is why you see so few Engineers. If we specialize there is nothing we do that another class cannot do more efficiently and if we try to jack-of-all trades we ending doing everything badly.

Having said all that, I still play an engineer because I like the looks and I don’t get too bogged down on having an optimized play style. I am honest with myself though, my Elementalist is pretty much better in than my Engineer in almost every sense.

Great video and a great guide, I’m considering gearing up to try this out. Out of curiosity, have you considered sigil of strength (30% of 10 second might on crit) over sigil of blood? With all the boon duration this build has going this may help you stack even more might (unless you are hitting 25 stacks all the time anyway).

This is also a pretty large buff to thieves who, when complain it’s impossible to hit them because they are in stealth 80% of the fight, seem to always respond: “hurr-durr AOE the little house noob!!!” Without viable AoE Thieves are going to get even MORE powerful relative to other classes.

Adastra.9821:

I quite like it when using it a slightly different d/d build in spvp. Running 0/0/30/20/20 with a zerker’s amulet so since I don’t have any air traits, it’s a good way for me to achieve “perma swiftness” using the earth grandmaster trait. It’s also a nice insta-blind for stomping without elemental surge.

I run a 0/0/30/10/30 s/d tank build and it is quite useful. Basically it works quite well if you don’t want to invest in 10 in air.

I run signet of air on my S/D signet build because of the lack of auras to give you full swiftness uptime. It’s inferior to perma-swiftness, but not by much. The real give up is the utility slot for the lackluster blind. If it were insta-cast it would be much better.

Engineer is borked right now. You will get some pushback from the die-hard fan-boys and there will still be videos of good players owning terrible players, but it is pretty much harder to do everything as an engineer than almost any other class. If you do well on an Engineer switch to an elementalist and you will be a golden god.

Save yourself the grief and shelve the class until Anet has a chance to fix the numerous bugs and balance issues.

x/x/x/30/30 is probably the best, but I really like (and use) this build for wvw and pve:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhMmcbyx3gjDAkCmMeAiGkUeMDO2A;TcAquMeJ8yGkrLZQDRA

0/0/30/10/30

It’s a sigil build, it is ridiculously tough, has good healing and the might stacking is incredible. Very easy to stack up to 25 might, especially against static targets. Lighting 4>5>fire>2>4>3(you can cast ring of fire before dragon’s tooth executes and still get the might stacking from the blast finisher)>Earth4>5 (as long as you start casting prior to the field disappearing you still get the blast finisher!). Hi there 19 stacks of might. this is difficult to pull off in PvP unless you have friends locking down your target.

It’s nothing but aces in PvE, in PvP it is not as mobile as a D/D build and suffers a bit from lack of good ways to slow/cripple targets (hence signet of earth) and the necessity of air signet due to the relative dearth of ways to stack swiftness (only lighting attunement swtiching and lightning 5). Some targets will get away from you that wouldn’t escape your D/D build. on the plus side it is good for small/mid sized group work as you are rock hard and bring some nice targeted area heals to the table. In addition to the constant healing from your signet and the ability to use it every 20 seconds synergize well with your 3k+ armor.

Utility slot 9 is a flex slot that I tend to mix up a bit depending on what I am doing, but I the immobilize is awesome for “tackling” in wvw and making sure someone eats a Dragon’s tooth.

Gear is PVT armor/weapons and P/t/heal jewelry.

I just got my elementalist up to 80 yesterday, I already feel more effective in WvW and PvE in scrub greens than my exotic decked out engineer. :-/

Creslin.1758:

It’s actually got me thinking about trying other “UP” classes like Engy to see if I can find a build that rocks, and then have everyone saying Engy is OP in like 2 months when others catch on lol.

Please do, if you can find an engy build that works I would love to go back.

I’m a new (noob) elementalist. I bailed on my level 80 engineer because Anet has zero clue about what to do with that class and I wanted to play one of the “non-broken” classes. since thieves seemed like pure cheese and mesmers are everywhere I decided on elementalists. I have to say, coming from Engineer, Elementalist is a terrific class, but has a pretty steep learning curve. But if you are already familiar with kit switching, attunement switching isn’t that huge of a jump.

KirinDave.6451:

Because seriously, you have no idea what “bad” traits are like until you look at Necromancer Death Magic or Engineer Inventions. Did you know until just recently Engineers were dropping 30 in Alchemy for a GM trait that granted ONE extra might when using alchemy utilities and toolbelt skills. Meanwhile Elementalists are asking, “Is one might per spellcast really worth it?”

So much this. As an engineer who recently re-rolled to an elementalist I can honestly say you folks do not know how awesome you have it. Skills that work! Multiple synergies! The cannonical 0/10/0/30/30 build is awesome, but there is a LOT of room for other viable (if not quite as efficient) builds. I just rolled my elementalist 5 days ago and I am already up to level 55 with a S/D build that I am probably going to take into 80 for PvE and WvW. I can already self combo myself for 12 might stacks (this is without sigils, etc….) pretty much constantly. As an engineer I got used to kit switching, so I am constantly changing attunements without difficulty. It is just such a joy to play a non-broken class.

Vadon.1496:

Best way to protest is just to reroll and dont play engineer anymore.

This. i’m quite enjoying me D/D elementalist. Plays very much like an Engineer except with better damage, more survivability, better synergy and skills that actually work.

Rfreak.6591:

I’d actually do this if I didn’t like engineers mechanics and style, but I’d feel guilty and somewhat dirty inside myself for getting rid of over 350 hrs of gameplay even thought now are basically useless no matter how you see it.

i look at it this way, maybe one day they will buff engineers, and when they do I will have a level 80 decked out in full exotics ready tot take advantage of it. But today I saw “LF2M FOTM lvl 18 no engineers” in lions arch… the writing is on the wall.

Liquid.9672:

Just don’t bother. Play another profession. You’ll be happier.

This. i held out until this patch, but its going to be a long time before they show engineers love. Just re-roll, it isn’t worth the heartache.

Sabyne.6329:

I’m quite new to engineer.
“Elixir Gun—Super Elixir: Reverted the pulse healing effect to its previous intended state.”
What does this mean?

It means that super elixir got rebverted back to its previous state, it was healing WAY to much this patch.

DreamOfACure.4382:

amiable.4823:

Really so the speed increase in stealth wasn’t also a buff? Please link these dozens of threads. I don’t believe you.

Dude, no thief worth even a drop of the blood on their daggers used Fleet of Shadow. o_O

You clearly don’t know jack about thief traits.

I don’t even feel the need to dispute you anymore. All I feel is pity, man. Seriously, actually try rolling a thief (a GOOD one) before you complain about them again.

So basically you can’t show the “dozens of threads” you refer to saying the engineer is overpowered. And now you are defending how underpowered the thief is. Yeah, your Mr. Credible. LOL.

DreamOfACure.4382:

amiable.4823:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves

They buffed PISTOLS, which are none to be below average compared to daggers and shortbow.

You truly don’t know a thing about Thieves.
More then half of the Thief buffs are towards their Pistol capabilities.

Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one.

I can find DOZENS. You’ve clearly got a selective memory problem.

Really so the speed increase in stealth wasn’t also a buff? Please link these dozens of threads. I don’t believe you.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves
2. mesmers and
3. D/D Elemantalists

They buffed the three most overpowered classes in the game and nerfed Engineers. Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one. This is total clownshoes, and Anet needs to be called out on it.

Gilgamesh.2561:

Sigils are just an excuse as to why ArenaNet nerfed Grenades.

They gave us more sigils to increase build diversity. ArenaNet sees all engineers only relying on Grenades, so they nerfed it to force us into other builds.

I’m not saying this is good at all, I’m just saying.

But every other kit is completely terrible, with the possible exception of toolkit bunker builds, this is non-sensical. Engineers are already as rare as hens teeth, no one wants to play them. I have gotten kicked from dungeon runs solely because I am an engineer.

The grenade kit was literally the one good thing about the class, and it was really only usefuil for sieges and large scale wvw… To add insult to injury, d/d elementalists, thieves and mesmers got buffed! This is madness.

Welp, time to re-roll. How are elementalists?

Deria.9158:

EDIT: And whats this business about portals? I’m not a huge fan of the “lets warp an army from point a to point b” approach, but I can’t see calling it an exploit. Are people saying they can somehow use a portal to bypass a gate or wall? (That would suck.) All of this seems to stem from something that happened Thursday. I wasn’t online that night (last I remember we were down to 0-15 points total, so its pretty hard to stay motivated to continue the match hehe).

I believe the issue with the portals is that using terrain exploits it is possible to set up a portal that allows folks to get inside a keep without actually having a mesmer inside the keep. In the screenshot you can see a portal on top of the door and a portal on the ground. Most likely the portal on top of the door was placed due to an “unintended mechanic.” Effectively, yes, a portal was used to bypass a gate/wall.

AR used this mechanism to ninja the garrison from us (SF) in the middle of the week. Before everyone blows their top I think the proper attitude is to just report the bug and then deal with it instead of trying to demonize AR about it. There is a thin and weird line between exploiting and “creative gameplay.”

On another subject to the Borlis Pass D/D elementalist who kicked my kitten repeatedly last night, you are completely awesome. Untouchable, uncatchable and just a great player. I was so demoralized about how poorly my engineer performed and inspired by how good you were I rolled an elementalist immediately. I don’t think I will ever play at that level but it’s important to acknowledge when you are just beat.

Chewie.1249:

Can I ask what the heck happened to SF? When we left, the server as a whole was still doing good for its bracket.

We do fine during primetime, the problem we run into is we literally have no night crew, so all of our stuff gets recapped overnight no matter how well we fortify. this creates a self-perpetuating cycle where no one wants to spend the cash to upgrade/fortify keep that are going to be lost when folks go to bed. BP just has much better night coverage (not to minimize the skill of their night crew, which is really good). It would be smart to team up with AR to go after BP during our primetimes, but we have a group of dedicated idiots who insist on attacking AR so we can win second place or something. I don’t know, I can’t really follow the logic.

First off you are grossly misrepresenting the mechanics of stealth because you are not including traits, which when used properly can give a thief perma stealth by reducing initiative cost/increasing initiative regen.

Point #1 – P/D regularly beats bunker builds as well, because they only appear for several seconds and basically can never be attacked, and since most specs build for heal on entering stealth, it is impossible to take the untargetable repeated healing thief down.

Point #2 – Culling is a technical problem, but including a mechanic that allows explotation of it is problematic. It may take a long time to resolve or may not be technically possible. If so the mechanic will have to change to reflect the limitations on the technology.

Point #3- This is silly, yes you COULD damage a thief when they go invisible, but this is a bit problematic because you don’t know where to target them because you cant’ see them. You COULD get lucky, but chances are a non brain dead thief should be able to easily avoid your attacks.

Poitn #4 – this is not a player mentality issue, this is a fundamental violation of the risk/reward paradigm essential to balanced gameplay. If a thief can engage in combat without risk that is a problem because it breaks gameplay. It is especially problematic that due to thief mechanics and the lack of “cooldowns” on their abilities a thief can “reset” an encounter multiple times against other players.

The mechanics of this class are busted and will be changed as every broken spec has in every MMO since the dawn of the genera. Count on it.

Chipster.6713:

amiable.4823:

the real dangerous part seems to come when you get them downed.

I think you should try to play a mesmer in PvP and figure out how their downed works. They are easy to finish off once you know how they work. Autoattack a few times on the downed mesmer. If he looses too much health, you need to look around for the real one

I am aware how the mechanics work. the issue I run into is when I down them and they still have all their clones/phantasms up. They can do pretty good damage while I try to spike the initial clone and wait for the illusion to disappear to get to the real mesmer. If I try to eliminate them first I end up slaughtering myself to retaliation/confusion. It is an annoying hobsons choice.

The second dev post in our forum in a week! Huzzah!

I find that if I target with a rifle, the rifle stays on the real mesmer when I autoattack, unless they stealth. This is useful because rifle autoattack does a decent amount of DPS and most mesmers are glass cannon specced. the real dangerous part seems to come when you get them downed.