Half the ppl upset haven’t tried the changes I think like they see moa and go no one uses moa who cares. They should honestly try it along with the other fixes/updates to skills/pets warhorn actually does pretty sweet damage now on top of the vul application.
That always happens. People start crying without actually playing with the changes and trying new strategies with what they have.
And United Chaos, why 6 months? they said the episodes should be every 2-3 months with balance patches accompanying.
Venom Share builds might be hurting but BV spam is real. I was getting “stoned” all over the place last night. Its like everyone is carrying a pipe now and the thieves are dealing the stuff for free.
XD XD XD
Can someone who can logically and rationally and objectively do this, PM me and explain what the problem is for engineers? I will say I’m a PVE only player (maybe WvW I am becoming more interested in that too), so if it’s only pvp issues, don’t bother. But I want to understand why this is such a bad patch for us. Aside from a few nerfs (shock shield, some hammer skills, etc) I thought this was a good patch for us. And hammer was incredibly strong anyway.
Judging by your posts in the elementalist forums, I had assumed that you were a pve only player. I guess I was right. The problem for engis is mostly a pvp problem. Same thing with eles, mostly a pvp problem. PVE was mostly left untouched and almost any build works in pve anyway.
Anyone else tired of that statement being thrown around?
I am tbh. Any build may work in Central Tyria OW, but that’s it. Anywhere else, and you have to think about your build just as much as pvp. Fractals, dungeons, raids, event maps even. PVE isn’t the cake walk everyone seems to think it is.
On your previous comment, yes I did realize it was a pvp issue, and I hope they continue with the skill splits so they can better balance each game mode without hosing up the other ones.
Yes. Absolutely.
Everyone is negative right after a patch. It always happens. They could have 15 buffs and 1 nerf, and all they will talk about is the nerf. Engi is fine.
You really can’t go wrong either way.
Have you looked into Guardian? It’s pretty good, especially after the recent patch, and it’s pretty straight-forward to play.
Edit for link to build:
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
Ah I see. I don’t play pvp, and I haven’t played WvW yet, so the issues you’re having are ones I haven’t run into. Staff I’ve used as a ranged alternate weapon, when I need range or just AoEs. I haven’t used it as a main weapon really. Hybrid weapons I’m fine with (Viper, Carrion, and Rampager are hybrid stat sets after all), but I can see how this one might need some fine-tuning.
First thing that comes to my mind is conditions you spread no longer scalling with your Condition damage, but with their original source’s Cdamage instead (in other words, scalling with Cdamage of the ally who applied them).
They don’t scale with your Condition duration, but do with Cdamage – they might have that on mind when talking about “inconsistency”.
That would be the death of parastitic contagion and epidemic.
Why? If the original source is applying damaging conditions, they are probably using condi stat gear as well…
Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.
Scepter is hitscan, too.
And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.
Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…
Because staf is boring and has the strangest damage distribution.
could you or Rym elaborate? So far, your points are vague, and I need something more concrete to understand the issue.
I forgot they reduced the radius. That is problematic. I hate radiuses on skills meant to boost your teammates. It promotes clumping up, and while I know that’s a useful tactic in many group events, I feel that’s only because of needing to do so in order to get the best use out of things like this. I don’t know. <shrugs>
Revealed is the opposite of Stealth…so it doesn’t belong in Shadow Arts.
I’m going to disagree with you there. Revealed isn’t the opposite of Stealth, it is an effect of stealth. The more times you break stealth, the more use Revealed Training gets. Shadow Arts helps this by giving a base duration buff on stealth, giving you more time to break stealth without it just expiring (preventing Revealed).
Hidden Killer from CS is more appropriate to be in SA than Revealed Training.
It is my strong opinion that the Revealed mechanic should also be abolished so we don’t have to deal with a nonsensical and gimmicky trait like Revealed Training.
I am not against Leeching going to DA because it makes sense, but if DA don’t want Revealed Training, they can just delete it (or make it baseline) and give SA a more appropriate trait.
You know, I like that idea. Revealed Training becomes baseline, move Leeching Venoms to DA, move Hidden Killer to SA (may have to modify it or change things around since it’s moving a grandmaster to a master trait slot), and then come up with something else for critical strikes. Though Hidden Killer fits the theme of both trait lines, so it might be easier to come up with a master level trait to replace Leeching Venoms, and leave Hidden Killer where it is, as the stealth grandmaster option of the critical strikes line.
That said, something might need to be addressed in SA. With Venomshare going baseline, a lot of people don’t see a need for SA, and aside from mob-skipping in dungeons, I can see why that is. I like the idea of having a trait line dedicated to stealth, but given how little it’s used in PvE (I won’t speak for PvP), this might be a problem. Might. I don’t know how this will actually play out yet.
Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.
Scepter is hitscan, too.
And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.
Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…
I agree with the reduction from 50 to 33 but reducing their health!? They die so fast now omg. I think it’s too much.
Not a bad thing when traited with poison fields on death. It requires a change of tactics, but they were temporary anyway. Trait for it and treat them like the delayed blast poison fields that they are.
I do love the buff to Prestige burn stacks – it finally feels slightly rewarding to hit someone with the flames, both for direct damage and burn application.
glad to hear it. Was wondering if this weapon would be useful for condi builds (yes I know pistol is probably still better dps, but torch has some other utility options).
Necro has Epidemic, which makes them a better choice for condi DPS than engineer most of the time. Mesmer has alacrity and quickness. Revenant has increased boon duration buff. Warrior has Phalanx Strength for building might and Empower Allies and banners for buffing. Ranger has healing and skills and traits that buff allied DPS. Tempests have (or had) insane DPS (still top tier). Guardians can provide permanent protection.
Which leaves engineer and thief. With the latest patch, thief might get a slot instead of a tempest in a raid, not sure. Engineer sure as hell won’t though.
None of the things you listed are unique to those classes. Some other class(es) can do the same things you listed. I will add portal for mesmer to the list. So three unique things in two classes. I’ll address the raid thing later (again).
Every single player who does raids would miss mesmers if they were removed.
Debateable. I have seen raid groups that didn’t feel like a mesmer was necessary, and they did fine without it. Does it make things easier? Sure, but I addressed that already with the fact of them having sole access to alacrity (which makes for them having one build and one build only for any group content if they want to be considered.)
Condition engineer is only really desirable at Vale Guardian, and even then necromancers can do the job just as well, or better. So no.
Again, debateable. yes I’ve seen raid teams use necros instead of engi, but it’s not because it was better. It was because either one was acceptable. No appreciable advantage either way.
The point is, it requires a lot of work for being subpar. Other professions can do what we do, better and easier. Basically, even if an engineer does his rotation 100% optimally (which he won’t) he still won’t do more DPS than a tempest, nor does he bring any unique buffs. Would you pick the engineer for a raid team?
My opinion and yours is irrelevant, because it is an opinion. I am going by what is actually happening in game in raid groups. and Engis are almost always present. You might feel like they don’t have a place, but the people I’ve talked to who have sought out condi engi specifically for the raid groups would say otherwise.
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
The only thing thats worth noting out all the the balance patch was the significant nerf to Rise!.
Umm seriously? You’re gonna ignore all the other awesome stuff, just because this one skill that was obiously OP got nerfed? Really?
MM was viable before HoT came out. What happens to Rise! is not gonna change that. And several people aren’t seeing that much of a difference anyways.
Why is people’s default response to patches always overwhelming negativity?
Look there is no need for me to repeat everything Cecilia said. This patch is being played out as QoL improvements but thats not the case, the changes made are pretty meaningless. Hell I would even go as far as insignificant in PvP, those skill were not used before and it will remain that way. Also life blast range is only useful if you are playing for free cause reaper shroud is too good of an improvement as to skip it.
Well, if you choose to ignore the effect of these changes on the other game types, that’s your choice, but at least be honest that that’s what you’re doing. Also, no the change to life blast is not meaningless, because you can make really effective builds without the reaper line. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean that this isn’t a meaningful patch for someone else.
I think this is awesome. We have a group support utility set now, and with one trait (admittedly in the wrong traitline but whatever) we can give everyone a short term dps boost and some healing along with whatever conditions the venom itself applies. I’m loving this! Goes great with a build I’ve been working on, though I doubt I’ll go into SA for that trait.
B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.
And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.
This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.
I will point out that both Blizzard and Square have bank accounts that are so ridiculously large as to make this comparison completely unfair to Anet.
Point taken, but not applicable. It takes money to make money. Short term micro transactions will not last too long. That and of course the overall state of the current expansion everyone recently bought.
Not only that there is a thing called pride. Sort of like the wagon wheel maker. Sure, the craftsman could make the wheel has cheap has possible, and has fast. However, the craftsman sees that wagon go by daily….and if that was me I’d make kitten sure I made the best kittening wheel this side of the Mississippi for the world to see and be proud.
That is true. The game (unlike WoW and FF: realm reborn) is fueled by microtransactions, and that makes for a less stable budget. Another reason why comparing this to those two games is ridiculous. They have to rely on people choosing to spend money on optional stuff that isn’t necessary to do well (thank god this isnt’ pay-to-win). They aren’t subscription-based, so they aren’t gonna have the resources other companies will have. There is a reason those two are what they are, and it isn’t because the gameplay is so much better (it’s not, but that’s another conversation).
As far as your wagon wheel analogy, I’ll take it a step further. You’re right. He can make a bunch of wheels cheap, or he can make one really good one. But while people are waiting for him to make that really good one, they get impatient and go to another wagon wheel maker for their wheels. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen people say they were gonna go play X because there was no new content, or they were bored, or whatever reason they made.
I’m not making an argument for the cheap wheel either. No one will buy your product if it breaks a mile down the road. But you have to find a happy medium, and that’s not easy to do. No matter what you do, someone is gonna be upset. (See all profession forums currently, with the possible exception of guardian surprisingly).
B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.
And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.
This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.
I will point out that both Blizzard and Square have bank accounts that are so ridiculously large as to make this comparison completely unfair to Anet.
Anet has a Farmville style cash store and they’re making 2 outfits a month, I’m not concerned for their wallets.
That doesn’t even begin to compare to Square having the longest running consistently producing fantasy game franchise ever, or Blizzard having the most successful MMO ever based on a wildly popular series of RTS games, in addition to another wildly popular scifi RTS series, and a now a moba as well. They have the money, the manpower, a wealth of experience, etc etc etc.
Those studios are independent from the other things that those companies work on. Do you seriously think blizzard is using overwatch money to fund WoW or that Squeenix is using their other game sales to fund FF14? If neither one of those properties could stand on it’s own via their sub fee systems, they would just shut them down.
The reason they have good balance patches is because they actually hire people who know what they are doing and actually care about doing their jobs. Not people who fart out some half-baked pet tweaks the night before.
A little patience isn’t much to ask.
yeah I mean it’s only been 4 years, c’mon guys be a little patient…
^^^^^This
Compared to how long has WoW been running? or FF 11 then 14? Comparatively, yes. 4 years is a short period of time. If you’re gonna compare it to these, at least understand the scale you are comparing it to.
11 had nothing to do with 14 and 14 was so atrocious at launch they had to take it down and rework nearly the whole game. A Realm Reborn came out on August 27, 2013 making it a year younger than GW2.
Anet also has years of experience with mmo design via GW1 so don’t try and act like they get some “greenhorn” free pass.
Apologies. I was unclear. I was referring to Realm Reborn as 14. I am well aware of how bad it was at launch. However, the fact that they could recover from such a colossal failure does prove my point. I don’t think Anet could have survived that, no offense to Anet.
In response to Substance E, yes I do think they used money from previous projects to get newer projects rolling. That’s how corporations work. Money from the success of Warcraft fueled Warcraft 2, which in turn fueled 3 and frozen throne, which all fueled WoW. Along with the success of the starcraft line. Which all fueled their ability to have Blizzcon. And launch Heroes of the Storm.
GW2 was funded initially by money from earned from GW1. That’s just how it works.
I won’t go through the final fantasy series, I don’t have all day.
You are right in that if those products failed after launch to be self-sustaining, they would shut them down (like the original FFXIV). But I never suggested otherwise.
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
That stat combination would replace berserker so fast, the TP would empty of ascended and exotic materials overnight.
Thanks to Ooops.8694 for the PM he sent. Very well thought out, and explained a lot. Just wanted to publicly thank him for that.
Edit: having read his PM and the further discussion here I’ll say my opinion on a couple points.
1: We have nothing unique to bring to the game.
Same can be said for most classes. The only unique things I can think of? Necro has (I think) exclusive access to boon corruption. Mesmer to alacrity. That’s it. Everything else at least one other class has access to in some appreciable amount.
2. You could remove engi from the game, and no one (but engi players) would notice or care.
That statement can be said for every class. Seriously. The only people who care about a class are the ones that play it. No one but mesmer players would miss mesmer if it was removed even with its exclusive access to alacrity (oh and portal, yay…)
3. Anything we do someone else can do better.
Then why is our condi build the top condition damage build across the game, and most desired in that role? It is in almost every raid group list I ever see.
4. It requires a lot of work….
Umm… if you got past level 40 without figuring that out, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s Engi. We have access to more skills at any given time than any other class (even elementalist). There is a price to be paid for that many options at your fingertips. That is the nature of the class and has been since the beginning of GW2. Complaining about that now… I don’t see the point.
5. … for very little reward.
See #3.
Second Edit:
Another thing. Someone pointed out the weakening of Scrapper. This applies primarily to PvP, and I have to say, I’m exceedingly happy that they are starting to do some skill splits (hopefully more in the future) so that pve and pvp balance becomes easier to maintain without one game mode (usually pve, lets be honest) paying the price for the other. I don’t wish ill on pvp players, I just want a better experience for all, and splitting skills this way will help in the long run.
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
I have to agree with @Kilrik here.
The most efficient build we got was nerfed, while stuff that no one used and probably no one will for e-sports were buffed.
We were nerfed in the actual picture.I was talking about the statement Anduriell did we only got nerves. We did not only have nerves.
Since when can we say we only got nerves if only our personal or best builds got affected by all the tweaks anet did? Since when is that? So if there would be 10 buffs and 1 nerf, and my personal build only got affected by that 1 nerf, I can QQ in the official forums the ranger only got nerfs? If you could please explain that to me?Furthermore, what all you bitter and salty ones think you will actually achieve by QQ-ing so much while there are also things that have improved? What has been improved in the last few months? A lot, I would say. And yes I also agree there are still things that can be improved.
You really think a dev-team would start listening to such a salty and bitter environment? The negativity towards the devs really amazes me. Would there be other ways to say what you think, like say in a constructive meaning or something, to point out what you think about the buffs and nerves? Or is this complete utter jibberish?
agreed
Guard: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%.
Wonder what brought that about? Also noticed the death of Cleric amulet in PvP.
They made this change across the board. any 50% damage reductions got bumped down to 33%. Not just us.
Also if we compare to what other classes got off relatively light. Necros not only had their defense cut, but their minions got their health and toughness reduced. Meanwhile rangers and engies just got a flat cut with no extra nerfs, while mesmers got their nerf balanced out with extra protection as well.
Which means all in all, the only nerfs we actually got were to taunt and protective ward (PvP only). Maybe some people will consider the ax change a nerf, I haven’t made up my mind about that. Arguably the taunt nerf was part of their efforts to reduce CC across board as well, and protective ward has always been kinda strong.
Everything else was either a bug fix or a straight buff. Which is pretty decent.
But lets be real, I lurk on the forums regularly and I’ve seen the common complaints here. Anet does make an effort at addressing the largest complaints:
We don’t have party support, they give us druid.
We think shouts were garbage, they finally reworked some.
Shortbow and sword are awful, they changed them a bit.
Survival skills like sharpening stone is useless, they buffed it.
Warhorn 4 is stupid, they changed it.
Pet skill cooldowns are ridiculous for what they do, they kiiiinda tweaked them.
Why can’t pets remember their names?!!?! Finally they can.From what I’ve seen over a time, a giant thread filled with lots of complaints and suggestions won’t necessarily get a response. But if you can rally people behind a specific targeted skill or thing you want changed, your more likely to see it happen. Eventually.
Basically, pick ONE thing (trait line, weapon, utility type) and kitten about it for a month, and they’ll probably address it in the next big update.
^^^^^This also.
A little patience isn’t much to ask.
yeah I mean it’s only been 4 years, c’mon guys be a little patient…
^^^^^This
Compared to how long has WoW been running? or FF 11 then 14? Comparatively, yes. 4 years is a short period of time. If you’re gonna compare it to these, at least understand the scale you are comparing it to.
Give them a break, guys. A little patience isn’t much to ask.
lol, you’re either clueless or new
neither, but thanks for the well-reasoned and mature response. you’re a credit to our profession.
Can someone who can logically and rationally and objectively do this, PM me and explain what the problem is for engineers? I will say I’m a PVE only player (maybe WvW I am becoming more interested in that too), so if it’s only pvp issues, don’t bother. But I want to understand why this is such a bad patch for us. Aside from a few nerfs (shock shield, some hammer skills, etc) I thought this was a good patch for us. And hammer was incredibly strong anyway.
This patch in a nutshell : We had our arm broken and were given a lollipop.
This is an example of a completely useless response. Thanks for demonstrating what I am not looking for.
B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.
And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.
This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.
I will point out that both Blizzard and Square have bank accounts that are so ridiculously large as to make this comparison completely unfair to Anet.
Anet has a Farmville style cash store and they’re making 2 outfits a month, I’m not concerned for their wallets.
That doesn’t even begin to compare to Square having the longest running consistently producing fantasy game franchise ever, or Blizzard having the most successful MMO ever based on a wildly popular series of RTS games, in addition to another wildly popular scifi RTS series, and a now a moba as well. They have the money, the manpower, a wealth of experience, etc etc etc. There really is no comparing those to Anet. That’s like comparing Boost Mobile to AT&T, or or Acer to IBM. They’ve been doing it longer, across more than the two titles Anet has under its belt, and have far more support and backers and everything. Anet is doing pretty well when you compare what they are up against. Comparing them is ridiculous.
And yes, it’s math, but you assume they are doing arithmetic, when it’s really multivariable calculus. Give them a break, guys. A little patience isn’t much to ask.
If one can do both, why not?
I’m not seeing that trend at all. I’m seeing the people I talk to in all game modes not happy with the balancing. I do, however, see them happy with bug fixing. That’s the trend I’m seeing.
A different trend: the first few days after a patch are characterized by large scale negativity and focus on any nerfs or perceived nerfs. By around days 5-7, negativity has been replaced by cautious optimism of the new possibilities. By end of second week, objective assessment of the patch truly begins.
Reasons for this: multiple.
1. Most people hate change, and it takes time for them to accept it and actually adjust.
2. Most (if not all) people are inherently selfish, and tend to look at things for how it benefits or hurts them. If their build is affected, it’s automatically a bad patch or a nerf, even if with a few changes their build would come out stronger. See #1.
3. Corollary to #2. People don’t naturally look at things from the big picture perspective. That takes time and objectivity, and most people are impatient and not willing to look beyond themselves. Once the emotions run their course, then these things become possible.
I’m sure there are more, but my point is made (to those objective enough at this time to understand it).
B;izzard has always pushed more frequent and comprehensive balanc e patches than Anet in all of its games, it’s nothing new.
And Final Fantasy XIV is the only MMO out there besides Wildstar which has classes with DPS well between 5-10% of each other.
This is the only atrocious current MMO that has some classes doing triple the DPS of others.
I will point out that both Blizzard and Square have bank accounts that are so ridiculously large as to make this comparison completely unfair to Anet.
So basically, if you play pvp you hate this patch, if you play pve you’re fine with it. I think that’s the trend I’m seeing.
The only thing thats worth noting out all the the balance patch was the significant nerf to Rise!.
Umm seriously? You’re gonna ignore all the other awesome stuff, just because this one skill that was obiously OP got nerfed? Really?
MM was viable before HoT came out. What happens to Rise! is not gonna change that. And several people aren’t seeing that much of a difference anyways.
Why is people’s default response to patches always overwhelming negativity?
Point me out what was awesome about the balance patch for necros, please. After 4 months we got QoL stuff (and minor ones tbh) and a nerf (it was coming sooner o later but it has been really harsh). Oh right, we got fixed an underwater skill, YAY!
I would, but it’s easier to say, literally everything else. You can dismiss them as QoL stuff, but they aren’t minor. Lower CDs make for better rotations. Life Blast being full damage at full range is HUGE (ive hated the idea of ranged skills that work best up close forever). This is a good patch, and them nerfing one overpowered skill doesn’t change that. Was it the sheer level of awesome that guards got? No, but they desperately needed it, having gotten nothing but nerfs since HoT. We didn’t.
Hmm. It may not be as useful as I thought xD. I don’t hit 25% hp enough
like I said in the update thread, this trait is still terrible, it only looks shiny, the actual application of it leaves so much to be desired.
for example, if it procs automatically at 25% hp, it would be decent, but requiring you to get HIT after dropping 25% hp means a lot of times, your bubble drops when you enter down state since the trait somehow has a 1 second cast time.
That is problematic. They obviously have been paying attention to the forums, I hope they note this and make it proc as soon as you drop below 25%. I think the cast time is a holdover from the actual skill maybe?
Anyone who says Anet doesn’t look at the forums for feedback can go eat a cactus.
I lol’ed but you are completely right. So many of these changes for all classes were asked for, and not by others crying foul, but by the people who play the classes themselves (of course you wouldn’t know that because the first couple days after patch are mostly people being hugely negative about it for no other reason than they hate change and want to complain).
Can someone who can logically and rationally and objectively do this, PM me and explain what the problem is for engineers? I will say I’m a PVE only player (maybe WvW I am becoming more interested in that too), so if it’s only pvp issues, don’t bother. But I want to understand why this is such a bad patch for us. Aside from a few nerfs (shock shield, some hammer skills, etc) I thought this was a good patch for us. And hammer was incredibly strong anyway.
MM was viable and preferred for a lot of stuff before HoT came out. No nerf to Rise is gonna change that.
not sure if the minnion nerf was only to rise or all minions have to check
Power definitely got a buff. The Axe skills, the AA in DS, etc. Much better options. I hated that Life Blast was most effective if it wasn’t using it’s awesome range.
these changes where good but still they need to revert the axe trait nerf and buff axe 1 by a bit axe is still a garbage weappon
Also I don’t understand this “logic” of “why are they buffing a skill nobody uses?” Umm… because no one is using it, so it needed to be made viable? I know other people understand this concept….
the problem is not the buff is the mediocre buff no 1 is going to use them still
Except that people are gonna use them. Change that to say “I won’t use them still”.
Your singular opinion is not all necro players. Some people embrace change and will try the new things they have been given.
Edit: As far as axe, I was never a fan of it mostly for stupid reasons (I didn’t like the way the AA looked). I will openly admit that’s a silly reason not to use it, but I have no idea of its effectiveness otherwise. So I won’t argue that one either way, and just say that this is still a buff, even if it isn’t enough of one.
mm is only decent at pve because of the death novas and is mostly 2 skill rise and lich mark and is a condi build….now for pvp or wvw no 1 use it at a competitive level why may you ask is becase is bad…..
for axe is better than before for sure but still lacks damage and yes the animations are strange
When you say pve are you talking fractals, or dungeons, or OW, or raids, or world bosses, or event maps? Because aside from Raids where people get super picky about what build they want each person to be running (and sometimes high level fracs or speedrun dungeons groups are this bad), MM has been heavily used in all of them. I see the zoos running around all the time (so much so my first necro still doesn’t use minions ever, though my second one might).
The changes to condi application on Pmage is more important than just the 20% increase because frequency increase. I noticed in several places they shortened condi duration in favor of more stacks, which has the benefit of us actually DOING more of the condi damage instead of it being WASTED when the enemy drops before the duration is up. The only time long durations on condi is possibly desired over more stacks is with champions and bosses (world, raid, fractal, etc), and even then I don’t see why you’d want duration over stacks (only a few things have reachable caps on stacks after they changed that back last year).
Yeah, but the point is that the skill is still garbage even if you get 100% effectiveness out of the attacks it uses.
Fair but as you said, less garbage. They’ve done the same thing on some other classes, which means they realize this is a general problem with condi, and are trying this out to try to fix the problem. That is cause for hope imo.
Well, one data point does not make a trend I’m afraid. If they continue to make incremental adjustments to the skill over the course of future balance patches, then we’ll have a trend to be pleased about.
Unfortunately, they’ve really hamstrung themselves with respect to how capable they can be with their balance patches. Balancing once every 4-6 months means 3 times a year at best…hardly a pace to do incremental adjustments at.
More than one data point. This change of less duration, more stacks was done in several places (looking at all changes not just in mesmer). So I do think this will make condi in non-boss fights more of a thing.
Also, they said every 2-3 months, so we should be getting patches more often not less often.
Less duration and more stacks hardly fixes the issues with pMage. It’s a nice change for condies in general in PvE, but it doesn’t actually help us.
It is a buff, but maybe just not enough of one. I’ll play around with it and see how I feel about it.
Insofar as balancing pace, unless they plan to decouple balance from seasons, they can’t do it every 2-3 months. They’ve committed to balancing once between seasons, locking them to 4 month periods at the absolute minimum.
Unless I missed something, they plan on having episodes out every 2-3 months, and doing balance patches like this with each one of those. I wish I could find where I read it, but Anet people definitely indicated that they would have the patches attached to the episodes that would be on a 2, maybe 3 month cycle, as opposed to the 3 month quarterly cycle they started after HoT dropped.
MM was viable and preferred for a lot of stuff before HoT came out. No nerf to Rise is gonna change that.
not sure if the minnion nerf was only to rise or all minions have to check
Power definitely got a buff. The Axe skills, the AA in DS, etc. Much better options. I hated that Life Blast was most effective if it wasn’t using it’s awesome range.
these changes where good but still they need to revert the axe trait nerf and buff axe 1 by a bit axe is still a garbage weappon
Also I don’t understand this “logic” of “why are they buffing a skill nobody uses?” Umm… because no one is using it, so it needed to be made viable? I know other people understand this concept….
the problem is not the buff is the mediocre buff no 1 is going to use them still
Except that people are gonna use them. Change that to say “I won’t use them still”.
Your singular opinion is not all necro players. Some people embrace change and will try the new things they have been given.
Edit: As far as axe, I was never a fan of it mostly for stupid reasons (I didn’t like the way the AA looked). I will openly admit that’s a silly reason not to use it, but I have no idea of its effectiveness otherwise. So I won’t argue that one either way, and just say that this is still a buff, even if it isn’t enough of one.
The only thing thats worth noting out all the the balance patch was the significant nerf to Rise!.
Umm seriously? You’re gonna ignore all the other awesome stuff, just because this one skill that was obiously OP got nerfed? Really?
MM was viable before HoT came out. What happens to Rise! is not gonna change that. And several people aren’t seeing that much of a difference anyways.
Why is people’s default response to patches always overwhelming negativity?
Rending Shade is the second answer to the boon spam that has become the norm since HoT dropped (the first being necro boon corrupt). But if they don’t do something to control how often you can do this, thieves won’t need buffs, they’d just steal everyone else’s.
I wouldn’t go by the wiki. What does the trait say in-game?
If it says “stealth attacks”, then its the #1 skill from stealth. If it says “attacks from stealth”, then it should be any attack done from stealth.
The changes to condi application on Pmage is more important than just the 20% increase because frequency increase. I noticed in several places they shortened condi duration in favor of more stacks, which has the benefit of us actually DOING more of the condi damage instead of it being WASTED when the enemy drops before the duration is up. The only time long durations on condi is possibly desired over more stacks is with champions and bosses (world, raid, fractal, etc), and even then I don’t see why you’d want duration over stacks (only a few things have reachable caps on stacks after they changed that back last year).
Yeah, but the point is that the skill is still garbage even if you get 100% effectiveness out of the attacks it uses.
Fair but as you said, less garbage. They’ve done the same thing on some other classes, which means they realize this is a general problem with condi, and are trying this out to try to fix the problem. That is cause for hope imo.
Well, one data point does not make a trend I’m afraid. If they continue to make incremental adjustments to the skill over the course of future balance patches, then we’ll have a trend to be pleased about.
Unfortunately, they’ve really hamstrung themselves with respect to how capable they can be with their balance patches. Balancing once every 4-6 months means 3 times a year at best…hardly a pace to do incremental adjustments at.
More than one data point. This change of less duration, more stacks was done in several places (looking at all changes not just in mesmer). So I do think this will make condi in non-boss fights more of a thing.
Also, they said every 2-3 months, so we should be getting patches more often not less often.
They were legit before, OP. Now even more so. Just don’t fight destroyers.
Yeah high stability uptime on many builds and or resistance can seriously affect P/P hybrid as can resistance on warrior.
Bounding dodger with my p/p set might work nicely here. I was using pressure strike in the build which of course made it hard to get past stability. Now Sigil of Absorption priortizes resistance but if the warrior has stability up I can not get past that. This might give me a means of doing that. Get the stabilty off with RA then use interrupt and steal resistance as torment applied.
Someone looking at the positives and the possibilities with what we now have. <applauds>
I don’t think we are forced to do anything. I agree with the idea of switching revealed training and leeching venoms, because that just makes sense at this point, my snowflake build being affected aside. (Seriously, everyone has to adjust builds when patches are made, that’s just how it works.)
Venomshare baseline is a huge boost to build diversity. You can now do some group damage buffing without being forced to take Shadow Arts (which you might still take for leeching venoms, but that’s up to you). The condi from the venoms is a dps increase for the entire group, and more condi stacking on the enemy. I can’t see how this is ever a bad thing.
I could get behind this as well.
I’m just glad they’ve started doing skill splits (a few here or there, but that’s a step in the right direction, and will be the biggest thing to help this game improve overall).
Axe change: this is kinda what we asked for. People complained it didn’t do enough damage to single targets, and was only good for trash mobs. In light of the most often made complaint about Axe AA, this is pretty much the appropriate response. I don’t like it, but I was fine with the AA as it was. The loss of the potential might stack (assuming there’s something for it to bounce to) is sad, but I’ll live. Won’t stop me from using Axe.
Warhorn: the #4 skill is now useful imo. more damage and vulnerability application.
Sharpening stone: far more useful than it was previously. Might actually use this skill now, with only a 30s CD. Don’t care as much about duration increase, would rather have another stack of bleed.
Several fixes: yay!
Pet stuff: Ignoring the name thing (nice but not a game changer). Skill improvements for several pets, good. This was probably the low-hanging fruit on fixing our pets, so at least we know they are addressing the issue. If there aren’t more changes in 2-3 months (with episode 2) then I will be concerned. This is a step in the right direction.
Guard: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%.
Wonder what brought that about? Also noticed the death of Cleric amulet in PvP.
They made this change across the board. any 50% damage reductions got bumped down to 33%. Not just us.