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The only way you “change what is wrong” is when the other side actually thinks there is anything “wrong” to begin with.
When the other side does not think there is a problem, they are (not surprisingly) going to ignore your solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.
I tried doing it Tuesday night for aetherblade daily, which was the first time I’ve done it in at least a few weeks. Never got up to the Aetherblade wave unfortunately.
BTW, when did they change the way the waves work? Cause it didn’t have the waves together, it was scarlets minions, then molten, then scarlet second wave (and thats where we timed out).
I believe it was with the introduction of the Tequatl patch. It was suppposedly done to stop the conflict between farmers squatting on Aetherblade groups to the exclusion of everything else (even after the Aetherblade portion was deemed completed).
I just don’t think it’s actually changed anything. Farmers still squat on the Aetherblades, and now whine their farming has gone to kitten because now everyone is stealin’ their kills.
I am not somebody to just walk away.
Well then… I hope you enjoy your endless frustration and anger. Because the gem store is not going anywhere, nor are the business practices to encourage people to buy from it. It’s here for good, and will continue to be here until the game’s servers shut down. So go ahead and keep screaming at the sun for rising.
Personally, if I was so angry at something, I wouldn’t have anything to do with it… but I guess that’s just me.
Just completed it this evening on an Overflow (I suspect mostly from Tarnished Coast). It really comes down to how many people get tunnel vision farming champions.
That said, that’s really all these invasions are. They’re a champion farm, meant to throw farmers into zones not named Cursed Shore.
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I personally find the idea of soulbound equipment to be fairly silly period. Once I put on a shirt, it’s not like it becomes unwearable by everyone else in the world.
It’s one of those MMO things that I’ve never understood. Why is it so kittening important that once a character uses a piece of equipment that it can NEVER be used by anyone else ever again?
(EDIT: I actually TYPED out “kittening” rather than a vulgar word, completely without thinking about it. I’ve been on these forums TOO long.)
At the same time there are also many more people that seem to think the same way.
Walking away would also mean walking away from the invested time so far and walking away from an amazing guild. So I prefer to bring this problem to the attention.
And Arena.net doesn’t think it’s a problem. They don’t agree with you. It will not change. Period.
So now what? No matter how long you scream at that wall, it’s not going to move.
Walk away.
Really? Because as I recall an expansion was never OFF the table. The entire article that spawned this discussion was Colin (?) claiming that if they felt they could deliver an expansions’ worth of content via the Living Story that it made sense for them to do it that way.
At least that was how I interpreted it, and ya know what… I agree with that. If they want to (and can) deliver that much content for free (hoping that it will entice gem store sales), I’m sure as hell not going to stop them.
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I mean… I get what they wanted to do. And sure, it’d be wonderful if players WOULD spread out and explore rather than power through and camp.
But that’s simply NOT what MMO players do… and they never really have. Expecting them to do differently in this case was fairly foolish. They were going to race to 80, hit Orr, see one dungeon… be told to look back, and then they were going to say, “kitten that.”
Well I did explain how it works and it might not sound reasonable and rational to you, that does not mean it is not true.
Like I said it are the side-effects.
GW2 was going down this path whether you liked it or not. And apparently, quite a few people do… because they keep doing it, and remain committed to it. With that in place, all that’s left for the customer is to support what you like, and don’t support what you don’t.
If you don’t like it at all… then it’s time to walk away.
Part of the problem is that Arena.net tried to introduce a different way of playing MMOs to an audience that had grown accustomed to a certain way of doing things.
Players quickly grinding through lower level content and squatting in the highest level zones is HARDLY unique to GW2. Go to ANY MMO and you’ll see the same thing. Players have been conditioned to “grind through, hit endgame, and the game REALLY starts.”
Now, the question I have repeatedly had for Arena.net is… “So?” They had a laundry list of problems about traditional MMOs that I’m not convinced are really problems.
For example, they didn’t want people to choose a race based on racial skills, so they made those racial skills considerably weaker. But… how is that a problem to begin with? Ironically, it didn’t even solve the supposed problem… a good many people still chose their race for trivial reasons.
It’s the same sort of thing here. Why are instanced “raids” and a traditional “endgame” a problem? Don’t tell me “because it demands vertical progression.” It only demands such progression if you create a system that requires increasing stats.
I like that they are STARTING to create content that requires more coordination to complete… even though I still don’t get why it has to be “5-man” or “open world.” Why is 10 or 20 player instanced content this terrible thing that must be avoided at all costs?
They don’t want mounts for… reasons. Apparently they do… something bad. So? Why are they a problem? Is the waypoint gold sink REALLY that big? Who cares that you’d give something that gives, I dunno… 50% increased movement speed?
It’s these sort of things that, while not gamebreaking for me, still make me wonder how they are really problems to begin with.
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What is funny is that I see multiple people say. I spend (a lot of) money on gems but don’t like the way the game is going now so might stop playing / spengin money.. The way the game is going now is strongly linked to the gem-store as its being build around the whole idea of how to get people to buy gems. And indeed thats not good for the game.
So basically buy spending so much money you guys made the game go in the direction it is going now. Hopefully you learned your lesson. There is no bad thing in giving money however, better do that for expansions so you know the game will go in the correct direction in stead of spending it on a cash-shop resulting in a game focusing itself around that with all negative side-effects that come with it.
For your information, I stopped spending when the content was not to my liking, I haven’t spent anything for the last 2-3 moths or so, since Zephyr Sanctum.
Yeah thats very smart of you but you are aware that you help them to go into this wrong direction? Thats all I am saying. Some do understand that some don’t. It’s important that people do understand that.
And some just don’t care.
Sadly true.
He ruining ruining things by supporting the things he likes… and not supporting the things he doesn’t?
Dunno, sounds like he’s being reasonable and rational to me.
To me, the issue with quests in MMOs is that they really are superfluous, only there to make you think you’re doing something. In theory, they help you get used to the game and how the mechanics work… but I really don’t see how you can’t do that by, ya know… playing the game.
And no, GW2 really doesn’t do that all that much better. While it IS an improvement that each “heart” generally has multiple ways to complete it rather than “Kill [x] number of creatures”, it still doesn’t seem like the hearts really add much to the game itself. It’s busy work to make you feel like you’re doing something of significance, nothing more.
Mobs being able to dodge and move would really only solve part of the condition conundrum… that being overlapping conditions if you have multiple sources.
I should probably say that I didn’t HATE Factions or Cantha… merely that it was by far my least favorite of the four games.
The Jade Sea and Echovald Forest were great areas to explore, although I had very little interest in the entire “factions” mechanic. The “split” missions (with two parties from different sides cooperating for a common goal) was a neat idea, but the execution frequently fell flat, especially if you had no one waiting on the other side and had to count on default NPCs to do their job (spoiler alert; most of the time they didn’t).
I couldn’t get out of Kaineng City fast enough (that entire area literally hurt my eyes), and the game itself seemed like it couldn’t get me off Shing Jea Island fast enough.
As far as expansions go, sales are sales. If you are still selling 10+ million copies for an expansion to a 9 year old game, I’d say it’s pretty kitten good. Maybe not as good as when it peaked, but still pretty good. Can you realistically expect to have even an 80% retention rate at that stage of the franchise?
The claim is that expansions are an MMO’s saving grace. They bring back old players, retain current players, and entice new ones.
That isn’t necessarily true, as Mists of Pandaria demonstrates. If people are growing tired of a game, more of that game isn’t necessarily going to save it.
MoP and D3 are still in the top 20 as my post above states. Here is what I think, either GW2 is making an expansion secretly without anyone of us knowing and they will surprise us. Or that NCSoft just wants to support WildStar and not give money to GW2. Just assumptions off course.
I think it’s a REALLY dangerous thing to compare sales figures with games that have an already established pool in the roughly 10 million range. By relative measure, MoP has been a pretty big flop, comparing it to the sale numbers of WoW’s previous expansions. MoP has NOT stemmed the tide of decreasing subscriptions, it doesn’t seem… further proof that an expansion isn’t necessarily a game’s go-to saving throw.
The players that quit GW2 will come back for an expansion. New players that never played GW2 will come back for an expansion. Right now if a player wants to play a new MMO he will pick between literally a dozen MMOs most of which are free to play. However, if GW2 had a new expansion with a reset new players are likely to come back since it is a new shiny thing.
Maybe. And Maybe.
Expansions are NOT the cure all for a struggling game (presuming Guild Wars 2 is even struggling, which Arena.net claims it isn’t). Generally, I’ve found expansions only reel in players who are already invested. New prospective players often feel INTIMIDATED by expansions, as they feel they have to catch up with old content (and pay twice as much) to enjoy the content that was just released.
I honestly don’t know how new players are intimidated by the living story. Outside of this forum, I can’t say I’ve personally met anyone who ran away from the game because of it… then again… I can’t say I’ve met anyone who excitedly quoted it as a reason for their purchase. You’ll have a hard time convincing me that it’s any more than a zero-sum game here. The Living Story and Expansions really only effect those already invested… I don’t think EITHER encourage or discourage new players any more than the other.
I was looking for GW2 on Amazon yesterday and it was doing really bad in sales. There isn’t enough to attract new players. I hope we see an expansion by Spring 2014 or we are in for a hurting.
Wait… you mean to tell me a year old game isn’t selling like hotcakes? STOP THE PRESSES! At this point, anyone who is going to get the game off the shelves has already done so. That’s just as true for Warcraft as it is for Call of Duty. An expansion would certainly fly off shelves… but it would simply be from all the players who already have the first.
It’s kinda funny… how people complain that Arena.net is just in it for the money… yet the company is reluctant to put out a guaranteed cash cow (in the form of an expansion) in lieu of content offered for free (that they HOPE will encourage gem store sales).
I prefer the expansion model with perhaps one or maybe two “living world” type events thrown in between to keep our appetites whetted.
Well, the problem I see with this is that “one or two living world type events” wouldn’t cut it. Hell, the player base was moaning about nothing to do with the prospect of TWELVE such events planned a year.
I just don’t see why or how expansions are necessary except to people who have conditioned themselves in the past that they are necessary. Yay… $50 more for something that players will chew through in a month and spend the next eleven complaining they are bored.
No thanks.
The problem I see is that the player base did not seem willing to wait for an expansion. They were whining about having nothing to do within the first month. They whined that the living story when it was introduced didn’t give them enough to do when it was on a monthly basis.
Simply put, as much as the forum HATES it, it does not appear the majority of customers were willing to wait. And frankly, I don’t think they’re wrong.
And what is so magical about expansions, really? They’re a relic of days gone by. I don’t need no stinkin’ expansion, thank you very much.
No more painful on the eyes than their first rendition.
Then again, I am probably the only person on the planet that rather disliked Cantha and Factions as a whole. I’d be perfectly fine with GW2 never going back there.
What we are seeing is what is sometimes called PEBKAC.
Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.
The problem with the new TA path is pretty much entirely a player-side problem. Whiny little twerps who want to be able to clear everything their first time through in less than 10 minutes, and get their chest with exotics and ascended crap (who will then ironically whine on the forums about how there is nothing to do in the game).
Learning how the puzzles work is for suckas. Learning boss mechanics? Lame. Just gimme mah lootz.
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Except that it wasn’t… at all… then yes, you’re right.
GW1 let you adjust your skills and stats… in a town or outpost. GW2 grants you the same sort of thing (though admittedly with a small fee).
GW1 NEVER let you adjust your skills and stats in an instanced zone, which this new utility does.
I definitely get bit by the lag bug sitting outside TA right now… but I’ve come to accept that’s what happens to me when I’m packed into a small area with roughly 150 other players.
I have averaged $10 every 2 months. I figure that’s a pretty fair deal… for me.
Except that wasn’t what their numbers were showing at all.
To hear Arena.net tell it, players pounded through each LS installment within a week and whined for 3 that there wasn’t anything to do. From my anecdotal experience, I am inclined to agree. The majority WANT fast, constant content.
When the Living Story was on one month intervals, there was an entirely different group complaining that it was moving too slow and there wasn’t enough to do.
Oh, and believe it or not, there were still bugs found… frequently.
GW1 did the same thing, actually… there was a lot of content detailing Devona and her guild’s travels done as short stories published outside of the game.
I’m not exactly sure WHY Arena.net does it this way… but it’s hardly new, nor are they the only ones to do it.
It’s not that there are few voices of reason to counter the trash talk, but few reasons.
If ANet paid attention to the constant gripes and change the game accordingly we wouldn’t see the same threads pop up 24/7 saying the same exact things.
No, you’d just have an entirely different group of people griping about the changes made 24/7 while you would be happily playing.
It seems to me like GW1 veterans don’t see any of the stuff in GW1 as “grind”, even though it was.
I guess “grind” really means, “repetitive actions I don’t like for a goal I don’t desire”, rather than just “repetitive actions for a goal.”
I can’t agree that GW2 players are spoiled. Many that post here are certainly DISAPPOINTED (and not for no reason), but I certainly wouldn’t call them spoiled or entitled or whatever the current buzzword is.
I will say that I think that there’s a fair share of unreasonable criticism, and that it has a tendency to drown out the rational criticism; but sadly that’s something painfully common in official forums of pretty much every MMO ever to exist.
That’s not really all that true. I think you’ll find the majority of official forums of ANY game slant to the negative, especially if they are a “AAA” title.
On one hand, I really like this idea.
On the other, I know enough about MMO players to know that this sort of thing would have simply led to more work for the developers and kitten ed off just as many people… merely of a different group.
There was so much complaining and whining about Atiesh and Thunderfury being so tedious and drawn out (for example) in vanilla WoW that Blizzard actually went to the complete OPPOSITE extreme and made some legendaries in Burning Crusade straight up drop from final raid bosses (like Illidan).
So I guess I can’t terribly FAULT Arena.net for their approach (as the Mystic Forge really at its core is an intended gold sink than anything), but I would have probably tweaked the balance to be precursors dropped more readily, but that the gathering elements been greater.
With the NPC AI they have?
Uhh… no thank you.
And in this thread, you see how even when Devs come into the forums and explain why they are doing what they are doing… it really doesn’t do much to quell the “toxicity” of the players posting in said threads.
I think Vayne brought up the Communist Manifesto as an example of how your ideals (what you WANT to do), rarely mesh with reality (what you wind up HAVING to do). There is truth to that.
Of course Arent.net didn’t live up to their “manifesto.” I’m not sure we should have expected them to have to compromise it so quickly… but it should have been expected that they would have to deviate from it at some point.
And another thing is that it’s still in beta rollout. I don’t think ALL players have it available to them yet.
Yes, the majority of the MMO population are very casual. They’d don’t post on forums and don’t even socialize with other people. The biggest problem designing content for this type of player is that you have absolutely no idea if they’re going to like the content.
These players could all disappear tomorrow without a trace and the developers would probably never understand the reasons why they left. That’s what happens with developers that don’t talk to their own communities.
Kinda yes… and kinda no.
Arena.net DOES know where their players are gravitating. They can see what the players are doing as a general rule. They know from those metrics and logs that [x] number of people did [y] for [z] amount of time.
It of course doesn’t tell them if the players are doing it because [y] is fun or because the players feel they have to do it… or if those players like investing [z]. And that’s where feedback can come in handy. Official forums are but one source of feedback a company can tap into.
So what’s the purpose of a forum?
The purpose of a forum is to interact. That interaction can either be positive or negative, and there’s no problem with either.
That said, official forums (for any game really) are generally a TERRIBLE sample size of the player base as a whole. That’s also true.
Maybe you ARE a minority. Arena.net seems to think so. So what? Your complaints are just as valid (or not) completely on their own merits.
It’s a big problem with the pace of the Living Story to be sure.
I know the reasoning is that the majority of the players would grind it out in one week, then step away from the game until the next part, and so Arena.net decided to pick up the pace.
My question is: So? How is this a problem? Wasn’t the entire POINT that players could set the game down, and come back without feeling lost? Arena.net really has this thing about getting as many people in game as much as they can… and it really doesn’t seem to be for the sake of the gem store, because if THAT was the case, they’d be lining up items that people would feel they NEED to buy.
Yeah, that was a line I kinda rolled my eyes at even at the time. I mean, it’s a nice ideal… but people who hate MMOs weren’t going to be buying an MMO, much less Guild Wars 2. Those people were never going to give the game a chance because THEY HATE MMOs!
It’d be like trying to sell real estate in Florida to people who hated beaches.
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If you’re of the camp that Ascended weapons and armor as they stand is just busy work to keep people occupied as Arena.net preps more permanent content, I don’t think it’s going to wind up crippling too much.
If you’re of the camp that it’s just the start down a long gear treadmill… then I question why you’re still playing. Because whatever vision Arena.net does have, they are committed to it at this point.
I think what would help a lot is if they borrow from GW1 a little bit as they introduce more weapon skills.
I’m going to use Ranger Greatsword (as it’s one of my favorites and has a balance of skills both offense and defense) for an example of what they could do:
1. Slash/Slice/Powerstab would grant bonus damage with more Power (like it does now)
2. Maul could increase the duration and/or stacks of Vulnerablity with more Precision.
3. Swoop could increase the range with more Vitality
4. Counter Attack/Crippling Throw… provide longer block or increased crippling duration with more Toughness/Condition Damage
5. Hilt Bash could offer a longer daze duration with more Condition Damage or Power or what have you.
But that would really only be useful with more weapon skills that would allow you to customize your build depending on what traits you focus on.
He IS right that there was no small amount of pushback to the introduction of “greens” in GW1, though. There was a LOT of grousing that they were specific drops from enemies in the Middle Shiverpeaks (an area quite a few players weren’t entirely fond of). That they were the same stats as max yellows really didn’t change the gripe.
I’m not sure what the financial situation was; perhaps that they HAD to launch early just to make the money for the rest of the game…
But a “not half-@SSed version of the Guild Halls” should have been ready Day 1.
As someone earlier mentioned, with some servers Southsun isn’t dead at all.
It sounds like the problem is that large swaths of players play this game ONLY for the loot and drops. That’s a PLAYER-side problem, and I’m not sure trying to entice those players is the best way for the state of the game to maintain interest.
These loot-driven players have plenty of areas in which to drive their goals. Leave Southsun as it is.
I remember in the first beta weekend enemy mobs being quite smart. They’d move out of AoEs, they’d CC and get distance if you were playing melee. They’d rush you if you were ranged.
Players that weekend complained ENDLESSLY about it. The AI in this game is one of the things that the player base only has to look at themselves in the mirror to find out what went “wrong.”
I like the IDEA… the execution wasn’t ideal. If you’re going to need coordination of 80+ people, you need to give them a way to coordinate without having to deal with overflows and scattered parties across different maps.
Let’s see… if I were to change Tequatl…
I’d have Teq’s defense scale upwards with each phase, shorten the amount of stunned Whack-A-Taco time, and lower his defense considerably for Phase 1. Unless you’ve actually experienced how Teq’s health bar drops like a rock past that first Megalaser phase, it’s very easy to see people giving up after seeing 7 minutes left and only 25% of his health is gone.
There’s some things I would LIKE to see, but also understand at this time that they aren’t very practical. Teq as a structure is pretty much the only thing that makes Soldier’s actually viable, for example, and until they fix just how conditions work, there’s really no reason to have any other build than Berserker otherwise.
Well, the answer to #3 is that you have too many people (either AFK or active) near the turrets, and it’s scaling the mobs up to Champions as a result. Ideally, you only want 5-10 players playing defense for each set of turrets.