Guild Wars 2

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

Last time you said this we waited 3 months and got a buff to 2 mantras which haven’t seen the light of day.

I’ll see it when i believe it.

style.6173:

Mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game, and can be a good point holder at anything other than the top levels of tPvP.

You’re a thief, which makes this post really funny. If mesmer was the best 1v1 class they would still be holding back point with portal. There’s a reason every top mesmer has rerolled thief.

(Your Skyhammer game is ready. “Join” or “Cancel”)

if (All players = “Join”) Then

Start game.

else if (Player = “Cancel”) Then

Reque

else (No response) Then

Leave Que

end if

No more 4v5’s and no more skyhammer if you don’t want to play it. And if some idiot goes afk then he gets thrown out of que.

Jelzouki.4128:

No I’m not “basically” saying that. I AM saying that a skill that leaves you 100% defenceless for a number of seconds is overpowered (see the suggestions I made). I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer?

These forums have become such a joke. Is it just a reflex now whenever a bad player dies they run straight to the forums to complain before figuring out how not to die.

Moa does not leave you “%100 defenseless”, infact its defenses are probably better than most classes in the game, #5 is a evade combined with a sprint that will get you halfway across the map, dodge rolling in moa form will also sprint you. You also have weakness on #4 and cripple on #2.

You should never die in moa unless you get chain immobilized by 2+ players, in which case you would have probably died anyway.

PS. No good mesmers run moa. So im assuming this complaining stems from hotjoin. In which case you need to just ‘Get Good’.

Arganthium.5638:

it is yet to be proven that Thief (the class most commonly cited as the rival to Mesmer) has any sort of theoretical edge over Mesmer. In fact, if anything, the computations and strategic analysis seems to favor Mesmer (though only slightly) over thief.

Can you please stop posting your clueless rubbish on these forums. You also posted in another thread:

“And mesmers? Yeah, they’re terrible, even though all evidence shows that they are at least equal with thieves (due to their base health in exchange for armor, and a variety of offensive and defensive pluses), if not better than thieves.”

So we’re judging classes viability on there base health and stats now? You are the reason the devs get persuaded by bad players opinions on the meta. In the hotjoin meta that you play in mesmers might still be viable but at the top level they get eaten by thieves and there is no reason to bring a mes on your team.

That’s why there was not a SINGLE mesmer in the whole KOTM2 tournament. 80 of the best players in the world you would think that there would be atleast 1 mesmer if their “better” than thieves. Yet nearly EVERY SINGLE team had a thief.

Helseth (best EU mesmer) has recently rerolled thief. Supcutie (best NA mesmer) has rerolled thief as seen in the dev game the other day. And sensotix has rerolled thief and has also played thief for his team in all his recent tournaments.

But obviously their all wrong because they didnt take into account mesmers base HP compared to a thief. How silly of them.

Supcutie said it best in the mes forums:

“The short of it skcamow, is that between Helseth and I, we have tried what we and many believe to be every possible variation that we thought could be viable.
PU Shatter, PU condi, regular shatter, confounding shatter, mantra shatter, phantasm, gs/staff gs/s-f gs/s-t, gs/staff, lockdown, clone death, signets, bunker/bruiser, others I can’t think of off the top of my head.
We basically tried them all in high end team play and we talked about it back and forth. I’ve compared numbers/ideas/theorycrafting between team mates and many players I trust and respect. Mesmers just simply aren’t a good choice, when you can be replaced by a Thief if you don’t have one (or play Warrior, Ranger, Guardian – the sPvP Holy Trinity.)”

Topher.7261:

I don’t know how this balance is working for WvW or PvE but, I main Mesmer and I love everything about it. If you guys seriously think our class needs help. Then I don’t know what to think. Yea we have some bugs and glitches but, so does every other class.

You’re joking right? Mesmers currently have NO place in the sPVP meta.

They should have a different poll in different subforums (sPVP/PVE/WvW). The last thing sPVP needs is ranger buffs.

Also it doesn’t matter how dogkitten mesmers are they will be hated simply because the class mechanics are designed in a way to frustrate bad/new players.

SkiTz.4590:

1. Ranger, completely obvious, if you put anything other than ranger as 1, you are biased.
This class is completely and utterly useless in 100% of the game. Each class has something unique and SOME VIABLE BUILDS. This one is in complete shambles.
They bring absolutely nothing to the table in a zerg in wvw.
PvE, their only buffs are a spirit and spotter lol? any class is better at giving support in a PvE meta event or dung.
All rangers can do is condi roaming/spvp build thats it. Completely and utterly useless thanks to the fact pets are by far the WORST class specific mechnic in the game, it’s not even an opinion, thats a pure cold heart fact. Please let me know whos the creative genius that decided to make the only condi cleansing rangers have access too completely tied into KILLING THEIR OWN PET. Yes lets make a design for a mechnic like pets and LETS ADD TRAITS THAT HELP KILL THEIR OWN PET. Awesome thinking, seriously. Fix this class or delete it. Personally I would delete it, its painfully clear Anet you have no idea how to fix this class given the fact there has been 0 useful feedback in almost 2 years on this class.

2. Ele – They are in a decent position with a good synergy in terms of offensive capability but omg their surivivability is completely lacking. It’s not even worth getting full PVT armor thanks to the fact you’re DPS will be laughable AND STILL you will get destroyed by anything that breathes on you.

3. I’ll go with thief here… literally all they can do is stealth and backstabs lol. Most one directional class in the game…..

What? Rangers are OP in sPVP and have been for MANY months. They are part of sPVP holy trinity of Guard/Hambow War/Spirit Ranger. The Good fights tournament last week had 16 teams and EVERY SINGLE team had a spirit ranger, Yet there wasn’t a single mesmer in the whole tournament (80+ players) and only 1 elementalist. Rangers have been core to the meta for over half a year, rememeber the Pax final with double ranger teams?

sPVP wise engineers need more help than rangers atm. They barely have a spot in the meta atm and once the bunky condition meta ends they will be %100 not viable.

1. Mesmer
2. Elementalist
…
…
3. Engineer

Both these classes have no spot in sPVP atm. They have both been this way for many months aswell, we can go as far back to the Pax tournament where neither of these classes were represented. And the last big tournament (good fights) there were 0 mesmers and 1 ele out of 16 teams.

Engineer is the other class barely hanging on in the current meta.

Yes, its a no brainer in MMO’s. Unless you’re Aanet.

Objective pvp doesn’t work in MMO’s for competitive play because of the sheer amount of skills and complexity of combat, we learnt that in WoW, but i guess Aanet weren’t listening. Thankfully Wildstar and ff14 have both gone with a typical mmo small scall DM mode.

Aveneo.2068:

oZii.2864:

Einlanzer.1627:

snip

Aveneo.2068:

Hey Karl, thanks for your response. I appreciate it very much!

I do hope however that with ‘PvP’ you also mean to include WvW. Personally I feel that you guys have been constantly trying to balance this entire game around a minor aspect at the cost of everything else; and in doing so destroying the aspects that actually keep this game going.

So I would humbly suggest that you guys should stop focusing so much on an aspect as minor as sPvP/tPvP and focus on the actual core aspects which keep this game running.

Thank you

Einlanzer.1627:

This is a very common sentiment; I don’t get what the deal is with their almost myopic focus on PvP either.

Both of you don’t even know what is and isn’t split PvP/WvW/PvE. You want them to considier removing the internal cooldown on cleansing water in PvE/WvW when there isn’t one. That is basically what you 2 are discussing here. Nothing.

THERE IS NO ICD ON CLEANSING WATER IN WVW AND PVE!!! Never has been.
Cleansing water was never nerfed in WvW/PvE -Source is patch notes and testing

This is probably why they don’t want to split so many things balance wise because people like (see above) don’t know what is and isn’t split. Obviously people don’t go and test things either.

I was speaking in a general sense. Personally I don’t care about sPvP. What I do care about however are all the global nerfs PvE and WvW have suffered because of it. It is high time for the devs to stop treating sPvP/tPvP as if it was the entire game.

Now go outside and get some fresh air.

As pointed out by Ozii you don’t really know what is changed in pvp and wvw so your statement that Pve and Wvw sufferes because of sPVP holds no weight. And for you to think that devs care more about sPVP just shows how little you truly understand about this game.

What about staff clones auto attacks not bouncing with the trait. iMage does, so staff clones should aswell.

Candar.8140:

dimyzuka.7051:

Candar.8140:

Skyhammer is clearly unique for many reasons

Yes, unique because whether you win or lose, you leave raging.

Nonsense! Makes no sense, provide evidence for your assertion.

Evidence? How about every single kittening time i play the map i want to throw my computer out the window and then jump out myself.

Candar.8140:

Skyhammer is clearly unique for many reasons

Yes, unique because whether you win or lose, you leave raging.

roamzero.9486:

If PU’s Opness was entirely restricted to 1v1 it wouldn’t be so bad but it extends into 1vX’s (though in sPvP stealthing takes you out of capping/preventing caps, the only thing holding PU back really).

Not true, what holds it back in sPVP is good players who don’t kill the mesmers clones, don’t attack the scepter 2 block and know how to condi cleanse, which takes away any spike damage PU has.
The only reason you would take a mesmer over a thief as a roamer is boon removal which PU doesn’t have.

Nerfing mesmers vigor without any compensation is just bad design considering the current meta. Vigor affects mesmers more than ANY other class, dodging gives us our clones we use to shatter for damage, defense and CC. As well as the fact that we are glass cannons that rely on avoiding damage in the first place unlike most other classes.

Is it some kind of inside Aanet joke that the only viable spvp build that mesmer has had for the LAST 2 YEARS is 20 20 0 0 30 shatter spec?

Now it is not even viable in the meta leaving us with nothing but to reroll to thieves and rangers like Helseth, Sensotix and Supcutie have done. (3 of the best tournament mesmers all rerolled within the last 2-3 weeks). The 16 team KOTM2 tournament last weekend had a grand total of 0 (yes ZERO) mesmers out of the top 80 players around the world. (There was even a staff ele that made the final)

The last Oct 15th major patch that was supposed to have changes to put us back in the meta gave us a Mantra buff (sigh..) which had to be a joke, it’s not just the fact that no competent player will let a mesmer get off a 3second cast in spvp, but its the fact that we CANNOT take any utility to tpvp other than PORTAL, BLINK AND DECOY. Portal and blink obviously because our only role left is a roamer, and decoy because without it we get kitten d by thieves even harder than we already do. What’s the point of bringing condition removal if we die instantly to a thief before the conditions even get put on us.

Then last major patch the same mistake was made. Because of their limited understanding of the class they thought they could give us condition removal through a different trait line without realizing that no mesmer could take it because shattered concentration is a MUST. The only reason you bring a mesmer in your team is for portal and boon removal, that’s it.
Mesmer has been limited build wise since day 1. Shattered concentration is a %100 must in spvp, so is deceptive evasion, and to a lesser extent illusionary persona. It’s been like this since release. (20/20/0/0/30)
Helseth and Supcutie are using the exact same build that Xee, Xeph and Nero Vitus were using 2 kittening years ago!! (The only change of the build that has happened in 2 years is now lyssa runes are used with mass invis instead of timewarp or moaftfg.)

When you understand that we are competing with thieves as roamers in teams, who have better damage, mobility and survivability then you realize just how important portal (+blink) and boon removal is. They are the only reason we did have a place in the meta, so when considering buffs you have to build around these things.

The last 2 major patches have been a waste of time, and none of the changes have been used in pvp and we are still back at square 1, and looking at these patch notes it looks like Aanet have given up, or are delusional enough to think their changes had any effect. (hint- not a single top spvp mesmer uses mantras or has any points in the inspiration tree.)

As Helseth has said many times on his stream it is obvious that none of the devs play mesmer as a main and/or thoroughly understand the classes mechanics. So Aanet can you PLEASE start talking to top mesmers, this happens in LoL, SC2, WoW, and every other pvp game i can think of. If you were in contact with good mesmers you would have known that buffing matras was not the way to give us condition removal in the current meta, you would have known that the DE change would cripple shatter mesmers, you would have known that we have 0 flexibility when it comes to traits and utilitys, etc etc.

PS. I think mesmers will never be fully balanced if portal stays the way it is. It is impossible to balance a class when it has a regular utility that is stronger than nearly every other classes elite utility. If portal was made a elite, every mesmer would still take it in tpvp. I think that’s a huge balance problem because mesmers underlying problems are overshadowed by portal and it has been this way for a LONG time.

Sol.4310:

Carighan.6758:

Bryzy.2719:

PU mesmer is OP. You guys have little to worry about compared to rangers

Rangers are OP.
Easy to prove:

• Rangers have spirits. Mesmers don’t.
• Rangers have a 10s water field for AE healing in boss fights / zerg fights. Mesmers don’t.
• Rangers have a bear. Mesmer’s don’t.

How you can say that Rangers are weaker than Mesmers is beyond me.

(Hint: Class envy gets you nowhere if you want to talk balance, class design does)

• Mesmers have 10x more damage then Rangers.
• Mesmers wreck rangers at duels in both WvW and SPvP.
• Mesmers can remove boons rangers can’t.
• Mesmers have been the King of 1v1 from day dot and still are ranger have been at the bottom.

(Hint: Class stupidity gets you nowhere so don’t talk about balance when your clueless.)

Them poor rangers, they need a buff. That’s why Supcutie was forced to play spirit ranger last tourny for his team instead of his mesmer.. Btw what does 1v1 and dueling have to do with anything? A shatter mesmer does NOT wreck a spirit ranger with spirit of nature up, especially if their using drakehound or wolf. And if your talking duel specs then you can go beastmaster and kitten a mesmer.

Btw not a single mesmer in the whole KOTM2 tournament on the weekend.

16 teams, 80 of the best players in the world and not a single mesmer..

Even the team that came 2nd had a staff ele.

And the top NA mesmer Supcutie played spirit ranger in his last tournament.

Looks like every top mesmer has rerolled or quit.

Good thing Aanet is nerfing mesmers this patch LOL.

style.6173:

ens.9854:

The thief single handedly excludes all other professions from glass based builds

Wrong. A mesmer GC will burst down another class faster than anyone. Plus they have better defense than a thief with stealth and clones

Lol what. So much wrong. Mesmer is a great skill check because you know who are bad players by how much they complain about mesmers, their defense scales directly with your ability to not get fooled by clones.

Gonna let phantarams (team paradigms ele) post from the other thief thread educate you.

No other class can do that much raw damage with that much mobility and still bunker points 3v1 for large periods of time.

Some things that could be looked at to balance it.

1. Too much damage (I feel like this one is never brought up but the amount of raw damage an S/D thief can do is insane, and none of it is on a cooldown. Their burst and consistent damage are all the same thing, they are constantly doing both.)
2. Too much dodging
3. Lyssa runes

There should be small number tweak hotfixes whenever its necessary, then leave the class mechanic changes to patches.

Locuz.2651:

Rated battlegrounds are a lot worse and less popular overall than GW2s tpvp. A lot more zergy, less about communication, less small scale skirmishes, less rotations. And dont get me started about cheaters that get their titles despite reports.

They are typically only played to get higher caps. Blizzard try to forcefeed RBGs to the scene by giving them an absurdly high cap. So everyone had to do them to stay competetive.

And thats while im one of the most experienced RBG players in europe.

RBG’s are trash and nobody takes them seriously, even more reason why it makes no sense why Aanet went with a similar gamemode for competitive pvp.

On release most players i knew enjoyed conquest, until they realized that the hotjoin/battleground gamemode is the same as the competitive gamemode, and then most quit.

I still regularly get messages from a few asking whether gw2 has got a 3v3 or 2v2 arena gamemode yet.

We’re burnt out from the years of farming WoW BG daily’s, and now any 5v5+ objective gamemodes in any mmo feels like the same old zergy grind (gw2 conquest plays just like AB scaled down etc).

just had 5 soloQ games in a row without skyhammer, today is a good day.

Warlord.9074:

3. Long bow has 3 aoes and those are the only 3 aoes the profession has. I am fairly certain having only 3 aoes 1 of them being a burst skill that they can’t use when ever they want so lets say 2.5 aoes puts them far below other professions in AOE.

You should try hammer out sometime. its the best aoe dmg + aoe cc weapon in the game.

Players like you are the reason we can’t have proper class balance discussions on these forums.

Lordrosicky.5813:

They have to nerf the vigor. It is one of the most OP traits in the game. SO is clone on dodge too. Every other class should be nerfed too. With significant nerfs to necro and mesmer we are making some progress. Hopefully they do the same to warrior and ranger at some point although not holding my breath.

Shatter mesmers are barely in the meta even with bugged confouding suggestions, and the vigor nerf affects shatter mes more than any other spec.

Marsares.2053:

Rolyate.6753:

I really do believe vigor should be removed and classes should be balanced around having far less dodges available.

So what do light-armour classes light Mesmer, that’s heavily reliant on mobility for damage evasion, get in return for less dodges? Fewer dodges impacts every class, but it’s the light armour classes that don’t have the TGH or ARMR to absorb damage, unlike medium/heavy classes.

As well as far less clones generated from dodges to use on shatters for dmg, defense and control.

This is why sword is unused weapon in spvp these days.

offensive celestial
+ferocity (medium)
+precision (medium)
+power (medium)
+condi (medium)
+vitality or toughness (low or none)

or buff celestial.

If you just gave us more customization with rings or accessory’s then you wouldn’t need to add more stat combos in the first place.
Pvp stat customization is terrible compared to pve, jewels are basically worthless, the jewel to amulet ratio should be 50/50 or atleast 60/40.

Why do pve players have more options with their stat customization. You say you want the game to be simple for new players but most players come to pvp from pve so im sure they will be able to figure out a few extra pieces. If anything not being able to have their specific pve stat setup in pvp will hinder them.

TLDR. add a ring to pvp and decrease the stats of amulets to make it a 40/30/30 stat ratio. Then we would have tons more stat customization without the need for any new stat combos.

I don’t think Aanet realizes how much vigor clone generation affects shatter specs. Why would you nerf shatter mesmers so much in the current meta it makes no sense.

Arganthium.5638:

Mesmers also have 5k more health, defensive mechanisms related to clones

What if i told you that dodging is our primary way of generating those clones ..

Arganthium.5638:

On the other hand, mesmers can participate in very effective active defense through various skills, traits, and builds using their clones.

Did i mention how we generate clones?

Arganthium.5638:

“The most obvious example of this would be Illusionary Defense, where you keep up three clones as often as possible so that you can reduce the damage done to you by 9%.”

Would you believe me if i told you the vigor nerf makes it harder to keep up those 3 clones aswell?

You basically pointed out why the vigor nerf affects mesmers more than ANY class. Not only do we HAVE to dodge incoming burst because of berserkers in spvp, but dodging is also our #1 method of clone generation, which nerfs our survivability, damage and control though shatters.

Agreed. We have been begging for build diversity forever, and when mesmers finally find another semi viable spec, They destroy it..

Apparently clone death build is “cheese”. This shows how clueless Aanet devs really are about this game. Clone death mesmers (with illusionary retribution) have probably the highest skillcap out of any mesmer spec, it’s basically a shatter spec that you also have to keep count of your clone spawn order so you know precisely when to explode your first spawned clone in range of your enemy. Otherwise you play it just like a shatter build until your CoF and diversion shatters are on CD, and you can guarantee to land your clone death explosions.

Yes, the build has a low skill floor, as i’m sure there are many players who cheese it without using any shatters and just spamming clones without keeping count or knowing if any specific clone death will be in range of anything. But they will not get very far, until they try reach the skill cap of the build. Isn’t that what a good guild is Aanet? a build with a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling?

But instead of nerfing the spec Aanet will just obliterate the build and any build similar to it. Yet spirit rangers have been the meta since forever. Why are spirit rangers not considered “cheese”? MM necros? What defines cheese Aanet, because i have no idea anymore.

PS. offtopic but the only reason you still see some mesmers in high lvl tpvp is portal (and bugged confouding suggestions), im sure that is not considered good class balance. When a single utility is that strong you can never achieve proper balance.

I know for a fact a ton of players would come back for arenas.

Stop being stubborn and just do it already Aanet, just accept that your vision of objective based pvp turned into a zergfest and give us what we want.

Theres a reason most mmo’s go with small scale deathmatch.

The Good
- Rewards
- New viable specs

The Bad
- Diamond Skin

The Missing
- proper 2v2 or 3v3 arena
- dueling function
- Skyhammer removal
- A simple ready/decline button for SoloQ

Can we get a 2v2 or 3v3 game mode already
Can we get rid of Syhammer.
Can we get a ready/decline button when solo queuing.
Can we get dueling in the mists.

Because the Pvp devs are moba fans and forgot this was an mmo and ignored proven successful mmo pvp game modes and went with a unproven objective based 5v5, 3 lane (point) game mode which encourages bunkers and aoe spam instead of doing what everyone has been asking for since the beginning, simple 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch.

It looks like wildstar has been listening to pvpers because they are going with, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 dm arenas with a set number of respawns.

If i was Aanet i would try to release gw2 arenas before wildstar launches, but what would i know.

Skyhammers design speaks volumes about how out of touch the game devs are with pvp.

When you want to uninstall the game because of 1 map it says a lot.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ 2on2/3on3: A lot of you guys really seem to like this idea. So do we. We’re looking at game types which encourage this style of play. Another thing we’re looking at it combining the size of fights with larger tactical/strategic implications, so that there is something fun going on the micro level (the actual fight) and the macro level (the map overall).

Good to hear, this is the only thing that will get me interested again into gw2 pvp. But it sounds like you’re coming up with another objective type gamemode that encourages small team fights, that’s not what we want, it HAS to be 2v2/3v3 deathmatch.

And all this talk about MOBA gamemodes has me worried. I can see ALOT of time and effort spent into another fail gamemode. Deathmatch is simple, proven, and popular.

Yea this game needs deathmatch, but nothing more than 2v2 or 3v3. Gw2 pvp is best suited for small scale fights.
Anything more than 3v3 is a aoe, petting zoo, particle clusterkitten.

The 2v2 tournament the other day proved just how well gw2 combat mechanics go with small scale deathmatch. Even the controversial res system provided so many clutch plays and the commentators and spectators were able to notice all of it. Unlike in 5v5 where unfortunately the commentators really have no idea whats happening in the combat among the aoe particle effects and petting zoos, as well as missing half the fights because the camera is focused on somewhere else to begin with.

5v5 works in Mobas with just a hand full of cooldowns to look out for and extremely simple combat mechanics. But it just doesn’t work well in competitive MMO PvP imo, with each class having 15-20 abilities(in group fights = 150-200) it’s too hard for players and spectators to keep track of each classes cooldowns and understand exactly what’s going on. Combined with all the pets you get a big mess of a zerg.

Most friends that I started playing with thought of gw2 conquest as the same as hotjoin of other MMOs and wanted a 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch for competitive play. We were all long time MMO-PvPers and fans of gw1 so we expected competitive PvP to be about coordinated pressure, damage, target swaps, and cc, making use of this games awesome combat mechanics. Instead we got a gamemode of standing in a circle, running, outnumbering and raw damage.

With gamemodes that are heavily objective based you rely too much on players enjoying the game play provided from these objectives (bunkering, afking on sidepoints, etc)rather than enjoying the combat itself. Deathmatch provides the core satisfaction in MMO PvP. Killing other players, and thanks to competitive human nature it never gets old.

I know over 30-40 players that would return and give gw2 another chance if they heard about a new 3v3 or 2v2 dm gamemode. It’s also so easy to find 1 or 2 friends and jump straight into competitive play, but with such a small pvp playerbase left finding 5 players with the same schedule, skill and timezone is nearly impossible.

CachoDm.4639:

Uninstall that’s how you beat mesmers as a necro

If you can’t beat a mesmer as a necro then yes, you should uninstall.

waited 2 months for this patch and all mesmers got for spvp that matters was a nerf to our only competitive spec (iDuelist)

Just went back and looked over the mesmer patch notes for the last 4 months, all the balance changes combined dont add up to 1 decent patch note.

If the devs had of done ANY research about mmo pvp they would have known that 2vs2 and 3vs3 deathmatch arena are BY FAR the most popular mmo game types. WoW did all the hard work with many years of trial and error with a huge player sample size(with tons of forum qq) and over 30 pvp maps consisting of conquest, CTF, warfare, deatmatch and many resource race game modes.
This is why Wildstar is launching with 2vs2, 3vs3 and 5vs5 deatchmatch arena for competitive players/esports along with 10vs10 CTF for casual pvpers.

It’s funny how 5vs5 arena failed in WoW because it was too hard to gather a consistent group of 5 players with the same time schedule, goals, skill level etc, so how the hell did aanet think it would work in gw2 with x10 smaller player base?
The devs obviously went into gw2 pvp with a moba mindset but it’s a bloody mmo, not a moba, they are 2 totally different beasts. The obvious difference in esports is the smaller number of skills in mobas that players/commentators/spectators have to keep track of in group fights. In a mmo it’s impossible to keep track of 10 players with 15-20 abilities and have any decent understanding of what is happening.

Nearly every person i know who quit the game within the first month (easily 100+) wanted deathmatch and a dueling system. This is really basic stuff that is needed in a pvp mmo these days. When so many of the gw2 pvpers quit in the first month of release it should of rang alarm bells and forced a review of the conquest game mode.

Mantra builds need a lot of micro and have a very high skillcap imo, with a few more tweaks i think they could be very viable.

Every patch should have a open PTR, just like every game should have a open beta

Have you tried this build with a staff? I think it would have a lot more control and survivability.

From watching alot of tournaments lately 3 point 5vs5 conquest is just not viewer friendly at all. At any given time there can be 3 fights going on and it is impossible to know which fight will have the most exciting/important action, a lot of the time the shoutcaster will be focused on the wrong fight, and we miss alot of great 1vs2s or 1vs1’s etc. In moba games there is alot of pve/farming going on so it is easy to know where the main pvp/ganking action is happening. To counteract this we often see shoutcasters cycling through fights quickly trying to show as much action as possible and it just becomes a hectic mess that is not enjoyable to watch. I can’t remember the last time i watched a LoL,sc2 or Wow tourny where i was annoyed because i missed seeing a key part of the action(even CS had the spectator mode that would switch camera to show every kill).

With a 3vs3, 2 point conquest gamemode we would see alot of 3vs3 deathmatch type fights on 1 point, aswell as 2vs2s on 1 point and a duel on the other which would be alot more viewer friendly. 3vs3 group fights are alot easier for casual viewers and players to understand and keep track of the major abilities being used from either team. From experience with wow 3vs3 and 5vs5 arenas, 3vs3 was far more enjoyable/popular and had a lot higher skillcap than 5vs5 as it was less of a zerg and you had more time to read and predict the other teams abilities and had to strategize and prepare more which made for more engaging combat. And it is far easier to find 2 more players with the same schedule/skill/goals/language than 4.

Sadly with the current system we will almost never see a shoutcaster show a awesome 1vs2 that changes the outcome of the match as they will assume the 2 beats the 1 and will prioritize the show other fights that are happening.

Since Aanet seems so strongly against a deathmatch game mode, could this be a viable alternative?