Guild Wars 2

My engineer alt starting WvW around level 12. The rewards on him have been FAR FAR FAR greater than anything I ever got on my level 80 guardian (support-traited). Mostly because in a large fight, my engi ends up with maybe 10-12 loot bags. My guardian is lucky to get one. In half the time on my engi I have made more than half the number of badges.

So ya I would say it is definitely worth it in my experiencing, though I think my experience is a better example of how support gets screwed.

Yorkie, what about the suggestion mentioned of applying a supply cost to maintaining siege more permanently? Either a constant steady supply cost which, if not maintained, leads to them despawning OR they could add a new upgrade to locations that costs supply, but extends the lifespan of siege (maybe not permanently, but like doubles it or something).

While I understand coordination is nice and important, I still don’t think someone should have to stay behind doing nothing at a keep just to maintain the fortifications. That is no fun.

Garrix.7036:

there should be an upgrade that allows you to spend supply to prevent despawn. say 20-50 supply per despawn period. it prevents overloading with siege past what you can supply, and keeps cutting off keep supply as a legitimate strategy.

Kind of like that….some version if it could have some nice implications for starving towers and keeps of supply.

I agree with the reasons to Have them despawn.

However…I always feel bad for the dude the volunteers to hang back and just click on siege every ten minutes for an hour or more. How boring, and talk about a loss of exp, gold and karma

Honestly you should still be able to get bronze or silver without even fighting the boss. An equally important roll is to clear the walls/defenders out so that a force can go and take the tower lord. If you are doing that you may end up with no reward at all which is messed up IMO.

For attack supply camps/towers/keeps:

I can essentially do the exact same job attacking them, but if I don’t run to the ring as soon as possible, sometimes I don’t even get a reward. The only one where contribution actually seems to work is the veteran guard posts. You can kill those, let someone else cap while you run away and you still get a reward. With supply camps you can get rewarded but it seems to always be like bronze. For towers I swear many times I don’t get any reward at all if I’m not in the ring.

I think it is a messed up system. Especially for towers. What it means is that as soon as a gate is down everyone wants to just flood up to the Lord and pack in that tiny area. Of doesn’t encourage people going up walls to clear enemies, or holding at the gate to stop reinforcements. If you are involved in the attacK you should be adequately rewarded REGARDLESS of where you happen to be standing in the tower.

Hazal, you wouldn’t want to reinstate the short matches because those favor recapping multiple times. Night teams play a larger roll in holding your ground, which is more important with longer ,atces where you need to keep your points coming in at a nice steady rate in order to maintain your lead.

I know its hard to say, but give out a couple more weeks/matches and then see how things have turned out.

@Kracin

Actually the reward for killing yaks is 1. Starving them of supply AND 2. A little bit of xp/karma/moment when you complete the event

So if we really want to eliminate the reward…then attacking them should provide nothing by the satisfaction of starving people of supply.

But then again…why should defending a keep reward xp/karma? Shouldn’t the reward for defending the keep being the satisfaction of keeping the keep under your control? And similarly, shouldn’t attacking a keep be satisfying enough without a reward?

WvW has rewards outside of the “WvW mechanic” (holding as many towers/keeps as possible to earn points). So the argument that something shouldn’t provide an xp/monetary reward because the WvW mechanic is “enough” is silly, since plenty of other things in WvW offer similar rewards.

While I understand the reason why they eliminated the reward, I do think it would be nice to add a little something back to it. This evening I spent a good 3 hours escorting the Dolyak to the Garrison my team controlled in an opposing borderlands. For those 3 hours the Garrison’s walls were perpetually down and we were struggling to upgrade it the walls to give a better chance at defense (we kept having pitched fights in the keep lord’s room….no fun). So we decided to have 5-10 of us break off and make sure that yak got to the garrison from the Northeast Supply Camp. We escorted it many times. About 50% of the time it came under attack and we repelled the enemy all but I believe twice. It was fun, but EVERYONE in the group recognized that we were all taking a “hit” on our rewards for not running with the teams defending/taking towers. Yes we were getting kills, but after every successful pitched fight protecting the dolyak (which is a hard fight mind you, since the enemy focuses right on the dolyak when they attack), we got nothing and it honestly didn’t make me feel that great.

While I understand that you wouldn’t pay a bodyguard only if you got attacked…I still think that would be a simple way to avoid the “botters”, while at least giving SOMETHING to people dedicated to the Yaks. It makes sense, just like you get a reward for attacking and defending a keep/tower. You get a reward for attacking/defending a Yak (and obviously you only defend a Yak if there is something to defend against).

If you REALLY wanted to be strict you could also add in the requirement that the target location of the Yak be in need of supply…so defending a Yak to a full Tower EVEN if it comes under attack yields nothing. However, defending a Yak that is heading to a Garrison under siege that is low on supplies…that should give something. In some situations that is MORE useful than being another being on the keep wall.

Alarox,

I would say risk vs reward isn’t eliminated, but just changed with the mechanic in place. Yes you can port back to rescue your southern tower. However that means you lose the progress you made pushing hard north. The enemy also knows this is a possibility, so they could strategically go for your south tower hoping it will pull you off the north. Because both teams are aware of the ability to port, both teams can adjust their “risk vs reward” accordingly. So the risks/rewards aren’t eliminated, they are just different.

Dee Jay.2460:

Regular attacks go through the gate as well. I’ve spammed quite a few Pistol Whips that way resulting in some impressive numbers.

Ya they just need to make it so the gate is like this impenetrable object that nothing passes through. Start there and then if they want to add some like knock back mechanic to siege or to defense, fine.

Many many many people have. I haven’t seen a Dev post on it though. I can’t imagine them defending the current sytem however, because I really can’t ,make a logical explanation why you would want the winning team to be rewarded by becoming more powerful.

Like others have suggested I believe the orb and out manned buffs need to be swapped. Give the winning team more xp, magic find etc… give the team that is out manned and losing a buff in strength to help them fight back. They don’t need a boost in their xp when they are being steamrolled…

I think aoe is fine.

However I do think right now the people on the wall have to stand a little to close to the edge to get their attacks to fire down, which negates the major advantage you should have on the wall. Why should I have to be basically on the edge of the wall to throw my grenades? Can I really not throw my grenades in an arc? Am I throwing them like baseballs? It is very weird.

1. Night issues.

I dont agree at all. As someone else said it is unfair to treat the people who play during certain hours as second class. People have different hours, different lives. When they get to play they shoudlnt feel like the effort they are putting forth means less just because of when they can login. That just isn’t fair. I understand you don’t like logging in to drastically lost ground…but maybe they should just encourage more worldwide involvement on single servers or something. Or like a Dev said in another post, overtime the servers with good night populations will rise up and ultimately face others with good night populations, since it is so important.

2. Orb

Totally agree.I’m one of the people who thinks the orb and out manned buff should just be swapped. The winning team shouldnt gain more strength, making it easier to win. That is just backwards.

3. Espionage

Complicated issue. I haven’t really formed am opinion in it yet. My gut though tels me that anet sets the rules, as gamemaster. If they deem server transfers to spy as espionage…then it is allowed and fair game.

Ya as long as the fix blocks damage in BOTH directions, I can’t wait. It will make things at least a little more realistic.

This may need to be balanced but if people think it gives the defenders too great of an advantage because it is so easy to repair, they could add a skill, or a property, to the rams where when they attack, it causes some internal knock back. That at least seems a little reasonable…a huge ram hitting a gate would knock back the people on the other side.

Ya I agree with the majority in here. Keep your enemy in combat. If you can’t, at least be proud of the fact that they ran and will have to hoof it back to wherever they were headed. Yes you don’t get the xp, but that is just the way it is.

I also want to add:

I REALLY think players should be able to deposit their supply into a keep/tower/garrison to go towards upgrades. Every time we escort a yak we should be able to deposit our supply just like the yak does. Please

Barghaest.3061:

If people want to farm xp, there’s a bridge in Kessex Hills full of botters who do just that…

As for farming the yak event for xp, like it’s hard to get xp anywhere in this game. There’s easier places to farm events for rewards than trying to queue for Battlegrounds and do it there with less risk of actually getting steamrolled by an opposing server. When I was trying to acquire Vials of Blood and the like I found many areas where events pop with more frequency than yak escorts and are more enjoyable to complete.

The thing is they already decided that people were abusing the yak system…that won’t change.

My suggestion is a way to still avoid the abuse that they didn’t like, while ALSO still rewarding people when guarding a yak is actually useful. I just spent the last 4 hours escorting the yak, and it was under attack the MAJORITY of the times it traveled. I think if it actually gets attacked you should get something for that. You aren’t botting, you aren’t “farming” it…you are doing a service to your team. Right now that service is a sacrifice on your part (you aren’t at a keep defending, or taking other towers). That isn’t right (in my opinion).

? That would seem still pretty easy to just escort with no threat back and forth…and “bot” so to speak. That is why they removed it in the first place, so people couldn’t just farm it for xp.

I understand why you removed the constant reward for a yak escort…but it would be really nice to at least get a reward if you are actually attacked. People still escort the yak because it’s important, and I think they should be rewarded when their presence is the difference between the yak making it to its location or not.

Also I’ve seen people suggest only rewarding taking a yak to a target in need of supply…I concur with that as well. I think it would be near impossible to “exploit” if you REQUIRED those two conditions to be met before rewarding the escort.

@Raf (i’m not sure why I sometimes have the option to quote, but other times I don’t…weird)

If that is what you’re hearing, then you aren’t listening very well. I recognize the huge changes Arenanet made in this game in an effort to remove the “trinity”. I see it, I respect it AND I support it completely. Yes in most games I play a healer which typically amounts to “Spam these 3 buttons that give massive amounts of health to people…make sure everyone is at full health at all times”. Support in this game is a very different beast.

When I talk about playing support I"m not talking about healing. Healing is VERY minor in this game. I run all cleric gear, I have as much healing power as I can muster and I still do very little healing. Support for me is reflection, crowd control, absorbing damage, buffing (booning?), condition removal etc… There are literally DOZENS of skills that deal no (or very little damage), but increase the power or survivability of your teammates. Everyone skill I take that does that, I’m not taking a skill that deals AOE damage (since we have limited number of choices to make). So every “Support” skill I choose to take into battle is decreasing my “AOE dmg” capacity. Reducing that capacity reduces the number of enemies I can “tag” for kill credit and therefore reduces my reward. At the same time however, if i use those other skills well I can keep my teammates alive for much longer, which increases their ability to do damage…which in turn increases THEIR ability to tag kills, get xp, get loot and get reward. Why don’t I deserve some share of that? Those skills I’m taking are not for myself, they are for my teammates. I make my teammates better, and as a result THEY get increased rewards. I’m just asking for a small share of that.

I just like your name dude. That guy was a boss.

I seriously wonder sometimes if someone really did just mix up the out manned and orb off…and they just don’t want to admit. Like one day I will log in and they will be flipped with no patch notes.

I would LOVE to read a three paragraph explanation for why an out manned losing team should get exp and karma buffs. I would love to see what kind of “logic” reaches that conclusion.

Mishi.7058:

New name for HoD= Hand(s) of Death.
JQ already got theirs…
SBI has theirs as well.

@wookie
JQ got the nickname JQQ because all the false accusations of an alliance between SBI/HoD on the forums.

-Steelbluff Isle member

Ya I’ve heard, and I continue to hear it from my server mates (I’m not proud to be fighting alongside those who say that). Hopefully people just remember that those children are a very vocal minority. I’m sure all three servers do their fair share of QQing.

I felt the last couple paragraphs of your post was definitely sounding a little whiney. And you sound upset/teary eyed right now as well.

I agree though, just ignore the people making the accusation. There isn’t anything you can say to change their . Believe me. I’m on JQ and on the battleground map chats I see it all the time. They want to find a reason for why their are losing,..let them complain. There is no reason to complain right back at them. Just let them deal. You will come out looking like the better person in the end.

When the orb does work properly I can detonate it almost instantly just by bashing two several times…it detonates right in front of me, in range to heal myself and those around me.

Now that doesn’t always work…but it does occasionally.

Again, I would prefer to get the skill actually working consistently before i judge what changes should be made…right now I just lose too many of the orbs for random reasons.

Syphen.1980:

Barab.9016:

The problem with SBI in my opinion, and they are a good WvW server make no doubt about it with good guilds and players, are they are too content being number two whereas ET and JQ aim for number 1.

People still don’t get it. Lets see do I attack a keep that is fully upgraded, has defensive seige and people defending it or do I attack the keep that no one bothered to upgrade, put defensive siege in or upgrade? If you want to keep your stuff defend it. The zerg from point to point capping and not defending days are gone now that it is a weeklong match.

I know last night on SBI borderlands threw themselves at Ascension bay relentlessly rather than pushing east. You were going up against a keep that was fully upgraded, had defensive trebs, mortars, cannons, arrow carts, balistae you name it. you didn’t even bother to try to set up siege when you did cap the supply camp and instead just tried to throw shere numbers at it.

The only reason you took AB last night was because HOD was seiging garrison and we went to defend it instead of staying at AB. You would have never taken AB if we didn’t get hit by HOD at garrison and I can garuntee you that.

I can’t speak for other maps since I only play on SBI borderlands but this is the mentality I have seen from JQQ all week. Ignore HOD completely and push SBI till we are pushed out. The reason we fortified the hell out of AB last night was because franky I am tired of giving you guys any room to brethe whatsoever and you just focusing us. Learn to tak oportunities you are given. Figure out when your not going to take something and either improve your tactics or assault a softer target.

Every night it was the same story on SBI borderlands we would get pushed to garrison by both sides right when we had people start logging for the night. Did JQQ take anything from HOD? newp they blined it for us every time with a vengeance.

Ah well mad props to HOD and less QQ from JQQ

Um now I am not that familiar with gamer slang But my understanding of QQ is like crying and whining right? Correct me if I’m wrong on that.

If I’m right though…you should reread your post and ask yourself….don’t you sound a little whiney? I don’t really know how to properly use it in a sentence but doesn’t your post seem a little, QQish?

Edit. Just FYI I’m staying out of the peakittening. I am on JQ, but arguing/putting each other down in a video game seems like kind of a waste of time and energy to me. I just thought your post was funny.

Edit again: haha I can’t name the animal that wanders around with big bright feathers to show off…it censors it. Well…I meant the male version of a peahen, in verb form.

Weird…the vast vast majority of defenses I participate in I get nothing because I run support and don’t get kills. I’ve dine everything from repair walls, help build siege, res hundreds of teammates, and generally buff everyone….all with no reward.

I’ll have to experiment a little more. Maybe I’m bugged?

@Zenyatoo

You only get defense event credit if you kill enemies. If you support the tower, repair the gate, rez your allies and generally help other people out but kill no one you will get ZERO credit. Just FYI. It is entirely based on kills. They confirmed this in beta.

Kills from siege though definitely count, so that would be an effective way to make sure you get defense credit but trying to help out your teammates (but picking utilities that don’t deal dmg but buff/help protect others who can deal damage) won’t give you anything.

I also agree with this.

A lot of the “bosses” i’ve encountered in dungeons have ridiculous huge amounts of health…and it just boils down to standing there blasting them until they die. The ice dungeon in particular I remember a couple bosses in there where the fights just lasted way too long.

We need more bosses with unique mechanics and unique styles of play that make them difficult…like the ghost spider boss in TA or the end boss in Sorrow’s Embrace. That end boss was fun because initially you are like “Holy F, he deals so much damage. How are we supposed to defeat him?” and then you look around the environment, and figure it out.

I like the “detonate” choice you have to make…you either let it travel and hit an enemy, or you detonate it for a heal. I’m fine with that.

HOWEVER, it has to work reliably for it to be okay…and right now it doesn’t.

Also yes as someone else said, it would be nice if it traveled consistently in the direction of the person you are selecting on, friend or foe. However if they don’t want it to be able to travel directly to a friend, at least make it consistent in the direction it travels when you have no target. I can be facing a friend with no target and watch it fly off at a 45 degree angle for seemingly no reason. I’m not really sure exactly what the orb/my character is thinking in that situation…

“You’re not really supposed to [BLANK]” is a very limiting thing to say in an MMO. They provided us professions and a skill/trait system to customize our builds. You can make some VERY viable and VERY useful sole support builds using the system they built. Who are they (or you, or anyone else) to say “BUt you aren’t supposed to do that!”. If it works (WHICH IT DOES), we should be able to do it and we should be rewarded adequately for that. Artificially keeping us from doing it by limiting our rewards is lame.

shameless bump

mangocheesecake.1487:

But WoW is a trinity game, so theres that pigeon-hole element. In GW2 a player can choose not to be support or tank.

It’s just that if you want the group to do well, someone has to perform those tasks to some degree, but currently the risk-reward element is just not there. The arguement has always been “you can just do some damage, then ress or heal and you’d still get rewarded as long as you did damage”

What is not being addressed is that sometimes that style of play “do some damage, heal some” can mean the difference between a gold and a bronze on certain events. There’s been times that I didn’t ress people who died right beside me because I was so close to my karma gear I just wanted to get gold contribution on the event. Not proud of it, but the game is not rewarding me for it (don’t need the exp from ressing, already 80), so I leave it up to someone else who is nicer than I am. But i feel that nice people shouldn’t be shafted just because they were nicer than everyone else :<

Ya I think people focus solely on the “pure” one thing or another….but don’t recognize that EVERY BIT OF SUPPORT you do is taking away from your dmg, which is reducing your rewards. So if you do 50% of support, you are reducing your kill/reward potential 50%, because all thos eutility skills could have been replaced by damage skill-centered skills.

The system is borked. It needs to be fixed. Bottom line.

I do tend to agree that, in General, this Ame is severely lacking in party/guild/alliance mechanics. Ironic for a Ame named guild wars.

When I first saw a commander and joined his squad I though “finally, a way to keep track of more than 4 other people on the map”. In reality absolutely nothing changes, except form the fact that you can talk in a new chat channel, and the commander can give orders. Why can’t we, at the very least, see everyone in our squad on the map? Very strange.

I’ve never played Aion. But from what you describe it has quite a nice system for organizing players. I’m envious.

Please devs can you at least say whether it is something you are open to/considering? That way I know if you have no plans I can drop the matter and respec to a DMG build.

mangocheesecake.1487:

The easy way to do this is to make the damage calculation GROUP WIDE instead of with individuals.

If you play support to your group with heals, shields, bubbles etc, they stay alive longer, do more damage (from your buffs), and overall the group does more damage than others if divided by five.

I honestly would go for this. It’s not perfect but the guild I run with always puts people in parties.

Honestly ANYTHING would be better than the system right now.

If anyone has played WAR recently, could you comment on how it is done there? It’s been awhile since I played it but I do remember getting support. I seem to remember a sort of “Assist” system with support.

The excuse that “Oh it is too difficult to do that” is just nonsense. It has been done before, and honestly it needs to be done unless they want to just push everyone until pure DPS roles. Every support skill you use that helps your teammates and doesn’t directly contribute to your dmg, you are reducing your rewards….that is a backwards system.

ShadowbaneX.6273:

call me whatever, most people go by sbx…and yes, that’s exactly my point.

It’s extremely difficult all those things, to the point where it could well be considered a drain on otherwise needed resources, just to calculate rewards. “Not interested”? Hardly. Just not feasible to do with the time they had, or even impossible. If you have trouble telling how well you’re doing, how do you set up an algorithm to determine how to reward players? It’s much simpler to go by the current method, even if there are some gaps & holes in the system.

That’s strange because I seem to remember gaining contribution just fine in WAR (the most recent MMO with large scale PVP like this that i’ve played) when I ran my support builds. I really don’t thin it was a matter of difficulty, it was a matter of a choice they made. A choice that, to me, is completely ridiculous. To each their own I guess. Like I’ve said in other threads, as soon as I see a dev post stating they have no plans to change the system I’ll respec my guardian into a pure damage build and tag everything I can to maximize my rewards, since that is what they want us to do.

If I wanted to I could change up my build are be a pretty focused dmg dealer with next to no support. Scepter basically has no support except for the snare, which I can use purely on my own targets. Torch is a burn-focused secondary. My three utilities I could easily pick 3 damaging ones (The sword spirit, the teleport to an enemy to burn them. I’m sure I could find one other).

That build would be maybe 95% damage. It would pretty much fit PERFECTLY into the “Trinity” as a damage dealer….and the game rewards it just fine. I try to do the same as a support person, I get a much more complex set of tools and the game completely jips me.

I understand what their philosophy is and what they are trying to do…I just think their philosophy is a little backwards and they take it a little too far. I think the ultimate goal should be that teams should never REQUIRE the trinity to be successful. That doesn’t mean people can’t have viable builds that focus on support. It’s funny in a game called “Guild” wars, that the entire focus is “Every man for himself”. I run my support build to SUPPORT MY GUILD, and they spit in my face? It’s honestly crazy to me. Completely backwards.

Ynna.8769:

ShadowbaneX.6273:

I guess in Anet’s case, it’s much easier to calculate amount of damage done vs health healed, damage negated, etc.

Also noteworthy is that Arenanet wants offense to be better (or more rewarding) than defense, in the end.

Ya which is kind of ironic in my opinion. They want to get away from the trinity, except that a Full 100% DPS build (which is, I’ll point out, one of the 3 in the trinity) is very very well compensated/rewarded in the game. A full support build, which IS NOT a healer but more of a crowd control/buff/heal type role (much more complex than a healer in the trinity), is completely unrewarded.

shameless bump

I really want this to be heard. I’m not the only one this effects and personally I think this is really important to address for the long-term viability of many unique builds in the game.

Ya I agree. That is one of the reasons I like the guardian. There are a number of VASTLY different builds/styles that are all pretty viable and really powerful.

I run WvW with a pretty focused group of people on a dedicated teamspeak server with a couple of really great commanders. In that situation I find the most useful I can be is pure support…because we have plenty of people who are very organized and focused on laying down the AOE damage. They are designed for it. I am designed to maximize their output while keeping them alive as long as possible. When we attack a tower/keep we make quick runs to take out wall siege…I run with them. They destroy it with their AOE while I bubble/stabilize them to keep them attacking (will also giving the Empower to boost their dmg). The system works great…it is just unfortunate that those killing runs net them xp/loot bags and I get nothing.

ShadowbaneX.6273:

Also, for those that are talking Support being useless, well, sort of. You can’t just spec for Support you have to have damage to.

It really shouldn’t be that way. You can spec into pure support and be VERY VERY useful. Your teammates will love you. You shouldn’t have to deal damage.

Just remember that if you do that you will be completely jipped for badges/defense contribution. However it can be done, and like I said you will be VERY useful and VERY appreciated…just not appreciated by the game.

Malpractice.7850:

I place a ballista and get more than 10 badges.
you can buy exotics with karma btw.

and drwookie I’m sick of people qqing about guardian with blanket statements like he made. guardians CAN do all the things he said.

So then provide your build (like you did, and thank you for that) and offer advice. I just don’t like the bullying and the general disrespect.

Guardians can do a lot. I agree you can build one to be an absolute beast. You can also build them to be the best friend of your entire team (and deal essentially no damage in the process).

Oh and I just want to add:

It would be really nice to hear from a dev to at least say whether it is something they are CONSIDERING. If you guys have no intentions to change the system, that is fine. It would be nice to know sooner rather than later though. I’m fine running my build now, but if you don’t plan on changing it I want to respec now before my WvW guild gets too used to the idea of me always being there to have their backs. I can’t do it forever without some support from the game. If you don’t want to change, I’ll spec into a damage build or work on one of my alts. That’s fine, I’d just rather no sooner rather than later.

There have been a couple of threads about this in the WvW section but I guess it also belongs here.

You need to rethink the way you rewarded contribution in WvW. Basing it purely on damage dealt and kills does not encourage the variety of builds that each profession allows. I know you are trying to avoid the “trinity” but I think you are pushing it a little too far. The backwards thing is as it stands now someone can make a “Pure damage” build (which is, if you recall, one of the members of the trinity) and be rewarded EXCELLENTLY for their service. They can not have a single support type skill (except their required heal) and do just fine, get plenty of badges and contribution.

You can also make a “Pure support” build that is INCREDIBLY useful (I’m speaking as a guardian), and you will end up with no badges unless you take your time out of support/defense to “tag” enemies just so you get rewards. This is most noticeable on a Keep/Tower Defense where you are REQUIRED to kill enemies to get credit for the defense. Even if you are CONSTANTLY busy on the wall defending/bubbling/buffing/rezzing/healing/supporting your teammates non-stop, keeping them alive so THEY can do the damage…when the countdown gets down to zero you get nothing.

I’m not asking to take rewards away from those who want to run pure damage. THe suggestion isn’t to take anything away from anyone else, but just give us a little bit of encouragement for the good work we are doing. I’ve gotten several call outs from players for what I’m doing to keep them alive, to maximize their damage and keep the enemy off them. While those thank you’s are keeping me going right now, I would really like to know that the game itself is at least a little behind me on this. Your profession system provides a great variety of builds, so you should support all of those viable builds and not put an obvious preference on one kind of build while penalizing those who build their character another way.

What is the actual suggestion? I’m sure there are smarter people out there that can think of some things but one idea I had after an event last night would be sort of “Kill Assist” system. Obviously if I have a buff of someone I shouldn’t get an equal amount of xp for kills they get…but I should get some fraction (to be decided). The more buffs/support I have on someone, maybe could increase my fraction? I could also have a fraction of the chance to get loot (which would also go up with the amount of support i’m doing).

For a Tower/Keep defense? Perhaps count resurrection/some amount of support to the viable ways to get credit for the defense.

Now I know some people say “Well you shouldn’t be getting rewards just for sitting back and casting one support skill every 1 minute”. Ya I agree those people should clearly not be rewarded as much as someone casting nonstop AOE’s on the wall. HOWEVER, people casting nonstop support skills are being just as involved as the damage dealers. They are the ones this suggestion is for. Just like a person sitting back and casting one support skill every 1 minute, a person casting on AOE every minute should be similarly rewarded (IE: NOt a lot). The way it works now though if you cast ONE damage AOE every minute you have the potential to get a kill, and if you get a kill you at a minimum get a bronze for that defense. Meanwhile if I am NONSTOP supporting my teammates for the entire 5 minutes I can end up with not even a bronze.

Please work this out some way? My teammates are keeping me going right now because they appreciate me, but it would be really nice to know that the game developers actually care about all of the viable builds they built into their system.

@Kal – In the beta’s I had at least one dev confirm that for tower defense the mechanic for gaining contribution is ONLY based on kills, and that it was working as intended…so I’m not so sure they have any intention to “fix” it (which is a travesty to me).

We shouldn’t have to “tag a few enemies” just to be rewarded for the work we are doing. As a support guardian my crappy staff attacks barely do any significant damage. Using them to “tag a few enemies” is WASTING MY TIME. Time that could be better spent continuing to focus on my teammates, continuing to give them the protection/regeneration/might buff/shields and crowd control they need to maximize their damage.

The people asking for this aren’t saying there aren’t viable builds that are a mix of support and damage. The problem is there are very viable PURE DAMAGE builds that get plenty of rewards. There are also some VERY viable PURE (almost) SUPPORT builds that get next to nothing. That dichotomy is just wrong. Yes I’m sure some of you are offering your team some nice support while you are also doing damage, but there is absolutely no way you are doing as much as someone who focuses on it solely. Yes in your build to focus on support solely may mean you would be waiting on cooldowns, but not every build is like that. I can’t speak for other professions but on a guardian it is very easy to make a build where you are CONSTANTLY involved in the fight, and above 90% or more of what you do deals no damage. To waste your time just to “tag” enemies so you get some rewards shouldn’t be necessary.

Case in point yesterday on a Keep Attack. I was grouped up with AOE ranged attackers. We were well coordinated and I was on them like white on rice, keeping them bubbled/reflected/shielded/healed AND buffed (that empower buff is awfully nice for you damage dealers). I was using my skills just as often as they were. They were commenting in chat on how many kills they were getting on the wall. Apparently it was going very very well. The ONLY thing I knew was that these guys were being pummeled and the only thing keeping them alive was me. I know that because I left for literally 60 seconds to grab supply before the gate went down and by the time I got back I had to rez them. Once the gate was down I received a total of zero experience for my effort at that gate, no loot. No nothing. THe people I was supporting killed at least a dozen defenders. We both got contribution when we took the bay, but they also walked away with loot (likely badges, though I didn’t ask for a number) and more xp. That is just wrong. I don’t see how people can think otherwise?

@Habibloew (Dev)

Obviously I’m sure you guys are working on this but at least in WvW the way you load characters HAS to be improved. It is just ridiculous to hear on teamspeak “Our flank”, you look to your flank and no one is there….and then 5 seconds later there are 30 people 10 feet away from you. It hasn’t just happened a couple of times. It happens almost daily.

Is there a way to AT A MINIMUM load in the red “Defender” tag above everyone’s names? So even if they are invisible you AT LEAST can consistently see how many of them there are…That at least would help with the mass invisibility ambushes.

@Malpractice

Really there is no reason to act like a total **** (That’s a four letter word for a thing that is likely hanging between your legs). Most of the things you are describing are traits, and are therefore choices you have made in your build. Aegis doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY heal, nor does dodging, or symbols. So you don’t need to act like a bully and an ******* (seven letter word for a thing between the four letter word above). You shared your build, you can help give people advice, but please act like an adult.

Aeolus.3615:

Sometimes if the target is higher than you the orb will go trough the ground.

Ya but in my experience when it does that it is lost. It doesn’t do anything. It’s like the ground absorbs it.

I typically use the orb for heals, since I am playing a support role in WvW and have a lot of +Healing on me. When my target (a teammate) is higher than me the orb disappears and I can’t even detonate it (well I can, but it doesn’t heal). Definitely a bug if you ask me.