Guild Wars 2

Who wants to watch people rolling in a circle?

It’s PVE take whatever the hell you want.
There is a stigma but again srs just use the prof if you want.

There wasn’t any indication that it’s any more boon removal than FS does already.
The problem with taking bountiful is that S/ and D/ have nothing to build off of trickeries condition damage. So for traiting to get it, you do lose damage simply because neither of the two weapons are supported well by the line nor is there any traits in the line outside of Caltrops dodge that even work off the stat it gives to make it more meaningful.
More often then not it’s not worth it by itself.

Infiltrator’s Signet. Not that it matters just use Steal as a gap closer if you need it as a gap closer. Such a wierd hissy fit.

^Not sure if srs.

kostbabis.8791:

ensoriki.5789:

Drop the flippen recharge of the conjure skills.
You only end up using 3 skills then dropping because the cool downs are long as hell.
It’s the reason why FGS works, if the CD’s on fire storm mimicked the one on Earth shield or Ice bow, no one would be using FGS either.
Insta cast would be nice too.

hammer has a 600 range leap at 6 sec cd..Omg thats 3 rtl every 40 sec.I will be fast again :P

Probably better since Leaps are boosted by swiftness.
Switch to air and leap away.

Drop the flippen recharge of the conjure skills.
You only end up using 3 skills then dropping because the cool downs are long as hell.
It’s the reason why FGS works, if the CD’s on fire storm mimicked the one on Earth shield or Ice bow, no one would be using FGS either.
Insta cast would be nice too.

Ensign.2189:

If they were to just make it a big chunk of life steal it would be flavorful. I don’t mind the heal, which will give some additional badly needed sustain.

I was rooting for some boon stripping instead, but this is fine.

I also think it should be life steal.

Nobody loves bountiful theft :o.

I don’t mind the mug change. I think it’s more in line with the other (not trash) traits.

Plumbing kit.

Volrath.1473:

heres a hint from a thief, do not stay in the same spot… MOVE! all the FS will miss…

Practice.

Thief crying over heartseeker? Other than the skill playing the game for you by it’s auto-flip around if they’re behind you it’s whatever.

A thief spams HS on you 3 times you know thats 9 ini. In comparison another prof could come, leap to you, Hit his other skill, use another skill for damage, weapon swap and pull out another damaging skill.
If you couldn’t handle 3 HS, you were likely not in a position to handle 3/4 skills from any other prof.

Mrbig.8019:

The point is that it doesn’t do anything very well, nothing ( as you said) that you wouldn’t be able to accomplish with a D/P set.
it has its niches but more or less yup
You have less damage, less control ( head shot is 10 times more powerful than tactical strike, currently) less utility ( BP, istant interrupt) and even less tankability ( BP alone gives the thief more survivability than a full acro, FS spamming, thief) .
The head shot vs Tactical comparison mmm….I think you’re off. Really tactical isn’t about interrupting but it is certainly usable for that purpose while headshot is, Tactical gives you a free way of either starting initiation or re-engaging after you’ve stealthed. Similar to surprise shot, it’s not bread n butter it is a complementary lead in, even if you use S/P with headshot Tactical keeps that use as a way of re-engaging in inexpensively (instead of using Pistol whip) and it certainly going to give you more damage for re-engaging than headshot will. I keep comparing Tactical to Surprise shot, because it’s more akin to that.
I’m saying tactical strike should be buffed because the trade off for bringing mesmer runes/sigil of para in order to increase TS effect of mere 0,5 secs instead of going full damage with ogre runes and fire sigil, is NOT BALANCED.
The trade off for bringing Svanir runes for Ice drake venom sucks too but so what? You should move past the TS daze effect.

And TS, due to positional requiring, not istant nature and all the stuff of S/D ( bad damage, bad control, bad everything, but these problems exist even for S/P) is not balanced when compared to stuff like Backstab.
Landing the daze on TS is easy as hell the position requirement is nearly non-existant because the system is VERY, VERY lax in regards to this. It’s harder to land the blind then the daze. I don’t see why putting greater pressure on a stealth skill is ideal especially if the idea is more upfront sustainability as stealth is about removing yourself from the equation (and losing that node). It’s pretty fair where it is right now. If I was changing TS it be just because players in WvW and Spvp are honestly playing a different weapon set (to me) as the style of usage is honestly different as a result of the daze change and the disconnect in reveal (that is happening).

Med.6150:

Does nobody see the inherent flaws with stealing boons for survivability?

Let me state a couple of these:

1. You engage without boons and limited burst due to the nature of the weapon set and the nerf to Mug

2. You need to attack bunkers to actually gain access to boons that make you sturdier

3. Most boons are constantly reapplied by those “depending” on them. Stealing a boon at a time that lasts 3 seconds will have little to no impact

4. You need to be able to stay in the fray and actually in melee range of your target to steal boons.

5. The Thief post patch will be just as squishy as he’s now when engaged. So if you get bursted to 30%, what will you do? Turn around and say "oh, no problem, I am just going to steal that regen that will tick for 130 (you know it will be scaling with your stats, don’t you) on me and I’ll be fine!?

6. There are quite a few classes who will retain their burst capabilities and not offer any boons to you, because they do not rely on boons for their survivability

You need to take it all in. S/ already has Inf strike which is a significant boon to the sets longevity. CnD for stealth aids in this as well as having Flanking strikes evade, we might lose the ability to cancel FS to chain evades so eh it might actually go down. However at present S/D already removes boons, adding them to your own does increase the sets survival because 1) You’re removing a threat already (might or fury for instance) and increasing it to your own which can let you hit harder (and thus apply more pressure before they can fell you) or become sturdier.
It’s not some magic boon but since S/D is already fairly sturdy increasing it more isn’t going to be a problem.
Not really anything to complain about.

If you get bursted to 30% in S/ you press 2 and you leave. You are alive. GG, or you press Shadow step, same as a D/ thief. Or you hit CnD and walk away. Or you deselect your target, and start using FS like Disabling shot, canceling it for the evade (assuming that can still be done).

I think you’re right with low boon duration being poor.

6. Is just how it is, same is true for Warriors taking Empowered or a necro using Corrupt boon. Etc, sometimes there just aren’t boons. That’s even true now that if you’re using FS sometimes you run into a guy with none and you just have to deal.

Mrbig.8019:

sorrow.2364:

I always loved S/D.
In the thief forum, it is common sense that FS is bad and S/D is underpowered. False.

Actually this is one of the most complete and versatile weapon set thief has. It isn’t stupid like P/D conditions or D/D backstab.

Anyway I bet we’ll see a new meta once FS get buffed. IMHO it doesn’t need a buff at all.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

FS is bad and S/D is underpowered.
[b] FS is balls to the wall easy to hit. Requires far less set-up than something like Hundred Blades and hits like Backstab. The set is underpowered though.

S/D was killed the day they nerfed tactical strike and OH dagger.
[b]S/D and S/P continued after their primary nerfs for many users outside of the limelight due to Haste. Not that S/D was ever in the limelight even before the tactical nerf.

They not only should buff FS ( and they will), they should also give this set more dmage and revert the nerf to tactical strike ( or buff it slightly, in order to get a 2.5 daze with runes or sigils) .
Tactical strike is fine where it is, in all honesty. They should keep it like Surprise shot on the shortbow, complementary but not defining. If anything I wished it removed a boon so S/P could get past it’s barriers but whatever.

It may be the most complete and skillful set in all theif arsenal, but does bad literally EVERY thing ( control, support, evading, damage).
S/D is more complete than the shortbow? It’s moving towards that but I think you and Sorrow have something in your eyes. It has a strong 2, a workeable 3 a rarely useful 4. 5 and stealth work alright.

You can make an evade S/D if you want but it’s only niche is really Foefire where Graveyards huge radius allows you to throw him on there as a sort of temporary off-tank who with a spike. Otherwise you’re generally playing a faux backstab spike with FS, trying to be tanky and flopping with shadow arts, or venom sharing.
The weapon set is still strong enough to deal with most people, that isn’t its issue, it’s why take S/ instead of D/ even if S/ can accomplish something, and generally you’ll be better with D/ outside of niches.

Blackhat.4016:

Well, it is not really free.

You used a Utility skill with a 75sec CD for that “free heal”. Besides that your opponent can do the exact same thing while you are in Mist Form without using a single Utility skill because you can’t attack him.

You can’t interrupt the ele heal though and that is what made it a little too strong for bunker builds.

It’s not an ele specific change it applies to engis as well and engis could attack you.

I didn’t say anything contrary to that. Pressure isn’t valued well in GW2 because of the score ticking constantly. Similarly in pve you rather roll somethings face down then pressure it down. So the more they push S/D outside of burst the possibility of it being abstracted more from the game. As it was after the Tactical nerf haste was a good way of leveraging it, and now post-haste to burst you put usage on flanking strike to bridge an otherwise significant damage gap or you can try relying on allies to make up for your damage by setting them up with CC. Now they’re changing flanking strike.

However to answer your before question “why give something without burst, means against bunkers”. Because it makes sense, thieves role as gankers taking out generally the squishy and the weak, Bunkers are neither of those. So a thief that can put bunkers into a situation to allow for either gankers to finish off or for him to take down himself makes sense. Unless we’re going to change Heartseeker to Guardianseeker. 3x more damage if you hit a guardian. Hopefully the FS change works out, based on how they said I think there has to be other changes slipped into this patch that just weren’t covered.

Arganthium.5638:

@OP: If you think Necros don’t have stability/stunbreakers, roll at thief. ’Nuff said.

While we lack stability.
I switched from my Sword thief to a warrior for a change of pace.
Difference was night and day. Necro’s aren’t any better than the War in that department.
So much CC we can barely care about because of Shadowstep or with S/ inf strike.

Before april 30th go role 25 or 30 da + 30 CS and 10/15 trickery.
Hit FS, hit mug.
There is your burst.

It’s not that S/D lacks any burst, it’s generally harder to use, and in comparison if you’re going to burst with S/D you have to consider ease of use and whether you’d be better off for the role your doing with something else generally that means Dagger mainhand instead.
S/D can burst though they’ve been removing it’s ability to do so since …I believe it was November? And all signs point that they’ll be nerfing its ability even more come the 30th.
I guess they want a GW2 version of the shattering assault sin…I think but pressure isn’t highly valued generally in GW2.

It hasn’t killed it.

kostbabis.8791:

Ice storm as the glyph of storms skill when used in water..
I main ele dont forget that :P

Should be the same as Frost bow. Then it won’t suck.

Meteor + glyph of sand storm + lava font + ice bow arrow shower + fiery greatsword meteor = GG TEAM FIGHT

glass staff ele new meta

The only thing left standing will be the Earth shield ele!

kostbabis.8791:

ensoriki.5789:

Who the hell is using glyph of storms in the first place?

Me during early launch days..I thought the earth was good until thye made it (or i realised) that it blinds once like 3 sec :P
Plus i think water chills if it hits somebody..doesnt hit often enough for me to notice
I think rtl out of combat needs to remain at 20 sec..No point harming wvw and pve folks for our sins ..disengange and roaming are different things.A warrior was always the better roamer compared to ele but he definately had less disengage options.Now that this difference is somewhat lessen theres no point harming roaming for ele as well.
And of course in spvp maps are small so it doesnt matter that much..in wvw though?

Ice storm doesn’t chill it causes bleeding used to be confusion.

waka.9826:

Every ele uses it, it’s op.

Them eles need to step their game up and start using Conjure Earth Shield, I recently learned you can Kite away from them in fortify but its still an insta-kill.

Who the hell is using glyph of storms in the first place?

They’ve split the 2nd hit into the chain skill.

Something to ponder. If it’s guaranteed not to crit, it ideally should not remove intelligence sigils effect.

Obsidian Flesh allows you to use all your skills.
Inb4viability :P.

Daecollo.9578:

Signets of Power – When activating a signet, gain 5 stacks of might that last 5 seconds.

So when I use a signet, I gain 150 power, so when I have signet of might (180 power passive forever.) I use it and lose 30 power?

So? Are you completely forgetting the Active of Assassin’s Signet?
15% increased damage for 5 hits?
Or that there are other signets than Assassin’s signet.
Ah whatever…

kostbabis.8791:

ensoriki.5789:

Big didn’t say eles can’t roam or should not be able to.
He said they shouldn’t be the most mobile class. I don’t even see what is arguable about that.

But they werent even with the 20 sec cd.Thief had vertical mobility ,warrior assuming out of combat could cover amazingly more distance and ranger as well.
I dont think you understand what exactly im talking about..:(
Math says that distance covered with new rtl is worse than like the biggest cd leaps of other classes.This change keep in mind is universal to all game modes as well

I agree with you that it was not the penultimate mobility skill even in tandem with lightning flash but I def understand the change given that it is immune to chill and cripple. If an electronic engages with RTL they’ll have it in 20s to escape but after that escape the mobility drops. They’ve found a suitable concept for keeping it a combat skill but deterring out of combat mob and escaping. It may need tweaking but I think its a good idea not simply because of the ele because the retuning of mobility in general will equate to a greater emphasis in swiftness which also helps to justify 1) other weapon sets 2) teammates and 3) skills when say Signet of air for instance noe jas increased relative worth ( viability notwithstanding). Simultaneously so long as perma swiftness (in general not ele specific) is kept to a minimum the actual value of the boon goes up and removing it will mean more. In other words I think its a good change for the ele and long term reprocussions are increasing the value of other utilities and traits due to op cost. Warriors can roam but you can still drop a cripple on them to impede that itself and for that RTL stays unique.

Edit: autocorrect is a pain in the kitten

Big didn’t say eles can’t roam or should not be able to.
He said they shouldn’t be the most mobile class. I don’t even see what is arguable about that.

Rely on swiftness.

Mug tweak is all well and good, but it’s still that if you use S/ or D/ and aren’t spamming 3 in D/D like an invalid all that condi damage in trickery goes completely to waste outside of kleptomaniac, incredibly negligible and part of what holds that line back. When you have stats completely wasted.

Even if more people use S/D in spvp. Acrobatics and Trickery usage outside of >15 will probably remain low.

Should be adrenaline gain instead of damage.

Sharps interest in the mantras has me interested.
I can’t recall the last time someone used a mantra so I have no clue.
I tried inspiration, but I have no imagination.

Ignore waka, his method is ineffective.

What you want to do is kill Ranger npc in the top center of the map. Easy 15 gold.

I’d tell you to aware yourself on FS+Mug, but they’re changing it anyways.

S/D can burst in current state. Likely will not be able to afterwards.

There are already builds that can shut you down 1v1.
A year from now, there may be more, depends assuming the role they seemingly want likely 1v1 options will decline or be shifted.

Would be helpful.

Power coulds could be.
Increase shortbow and Harpoon damage 5%. Infiltrator’s arrow and Ink shot create a dark field for 3s at your destination. Trick shot,piercing shot and Deluge become 35% combo finishers.

Within the shortbows kit itself a dark field provides life steal which would be additional damage for the weapon set when it procs, and healing for sustainability. As a field it would aid all your allies as well.
The boosted finisher rate on trick shot makes comboing with any field outside of the added Dark field better off which can in turn mean more burning, confusion, blind and the like.

So by specializing in the shortbow, you’ll get greater sustainability and team play.

They aren’t nerfing D/P.

I’d continue running a Sword main-hand and not consider D/P as secondary swap.

The 30th.

If you’re worried for D/P. Don’t be. It’ll be fine.
Basically concieve it as this. Sometimes you do not crit.
Going forward when it comes to mug it’ll always be like that crit missed but everything else will be the same. In all likelihood the weapon will be buffed given the response to the haste nerf.

They are changing the functionality.
The base damage remains the same but it will no longer crit. However it will also heal you about 2k hp + (healing power * x).

On second thought on it’s nature of being a condi that can reapply itself and spread is strong enough. Especially given synergy with other professions such as mesmers Warlock.

Though I’d like if they put this condi on the poison field replacing either the Blast or Whirl finish.

He’s wearing a flat cap I believe, I have a couple myself.

Deep wound for war and thief, after-all if your going to turn down burst it’s the perfect condition to allow burst but keep it reasonable. Necro can keep disease.

People were talking about Mug even in the early game. Same way they were talking about quickness.
Anet just took long.

Volrath.1473:

which still is a lot more than the elite skill.

But they can still use skills which results in a ranger switching to sword and spamming evades. While his wolf tries to eat your face.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Ya, we’ll have to watch what the changes do to the game. I think that bunkers will still be viable, but I think you’ll see some new counters to them. It’ll be interesting to see what the meta does.

J

JS I will show you this unstoppable beast of a warrior :p

@the 25 in arms, I have done the math and you will lose approximately 8% damage, but pick up the boon damage. It will be better because at 2 boons you will basically be doing the same damage. I will sacrifice some damage vs non boon classes to do better overall. And the bleed 10% is very short lived and is countered by the cleanse, where the crit damage is a stat and will always be there.

That assumes your target is running a lot of boons, that’s the whole point. From what I can tell you won’t be able to be universally effective, you’ll be a Bunker Hunter but will just be “OK” against anybody not running a large amount of boons which is where you may end up missing that extra DPS. You’ll be running a counter Meta build, which may lead to bunkers changing their tactics as well, or simply knowing that a Bulls charge means a SoM fueled attack is probably coming their way.

Saying that warriors are going to be OP before the patch even comes out isn’t really logical.

Not even that, even using current Flanking strike or hell bountiful theft as a thief many important boons get naturally covered. A significant one? Protection or stability So against the most dominant of bunkers protection will mean less against you as a warrior traited for it, but it’ll still be significant so bunkers can still hold up against unless the other stuff coming down the pipeline is just that good. You’ll get additional damage for every boon covering protection but it won’t change it’s presence and the reality is you’re still dealing less than normal damage as a result. Similarly that bulls charge won’t mean jack against stability anyways, signet of might or not.
It should help but I’d be surprised if warriors became bunker bursters.
Against those who aren’t big on protection (an engineer) it should be nice.

I want to play with Burst mastery.

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

ens.9854:

ensoriki.5789:

Arcane thievery existed since launch. Yet engis are alive are they not?

Don’t arcane thievery/bountiful theft (thief trait) only take a single stack for like.. 5 seconds?

Does this mean they will be changed to steal stacks/duration with the next update?

No they remove the entire stack and the mesmer gains the entire stack.

To the other poster mug won’t be removing boons it’ll be S/D. Mesmers not running it and existing are two different things. Thief boon removal on steal has also existed since beta but post-haste nerf the damage loss for taking it is rather severe…engis are still alive. If the boon removal mattered so much mesmers would run arcane thievery as a response to the meta. Even taking boon removal engis have been difficult due to needing to reposition yourself generally or getting nuked in elixer s. Which is a pretty significant change which will likely have significant effect on the engine itself.
Mesmera not taking it and it existing are two different things. As well mug will not be removing the boon. It’ll be flanking strike on S/D.

Also why would engis need to be “compensated” as a result of them trying to bring up underpowered utilities as if they took something from the engine wtf.

Arcane thievery isn’t used because it’s a very long CD IT’S range is weird and misses more than it hits. Lastly it doesn’t always steal the boons you want to rip… The inconsistency in it is the main reason why mesmers use something else… Plus its a 3 to 3 trade

If that’s the case I understand, I don’t run mesmer enough to know the fine details on the accuracy of its skills but I do know that if boon stealing was a meta shattering thing on it’s own, then Arcane would be more prominent and it is not. Though I’ve fooled around with it in the past, even stealing an hgh’s boons is nice when you do it but because of quick they can reapply condi’s it can be very temporary relief.

Im down to see back Disease and Deep wound :o.

I thought they were going to go with an Attack Speed Debuff dot for necros.
It seems like they’re missing that, and necros probably wont mind having that back as the anti-haste.

It being a chain skill is my main issue with it. While chain skills can be very useful. I’ve had to use FS many times for the dodge losing that functionality will suck something fierce. I wonder also if this a test to do a similar chain skill situation to Pistol Whip.