Guild Wars 2

It’s by design that things can get in the pathing of your projectile.
Also apparently by design that you can teleport while a bullet is in the air and you’ll still be hit lol wtf.

5k mug, 2k Flanking strike, 5k flanking stab, 1k Flame burst. 1 boon removed.
Tastes good.

I use S/D.
All things are possible through “Mug”.
inb4 nerf.

Med.6150:

Mrbig.8019:

let me say it again:

oh dagger post nerf is USELESS

a ranged cripple dealing bad damage for 4 ini is USELESS especially when with the same set + oh pistol you have a spammable, 900 range, istant gap closer dealing very good damage.

C&D can be totally overcame with D/P by using BP + HS combo. Without target requirments.

oh dagge is terrible, it was already inferior to OH pistol regarding utility, withits damage nerf has became completely useless.

Why are you even using the quote button, if you aren’t reading what you are quoting, let alone actually replying to it.

I have been trying to make a point, which is that the current weapon sets* can hardly be adjusted to the desired goals* (mobility not restricted to shortbow, power and condition damage, utility), when there are so few weapon combinations available to the thief and the current offhands already carry suitable effects for the thief’s role.

You might not like the range cripple, but it has its uses (beyond closing a gap yourself, believe it or not). You might not like the stealth, but it’s a stealth on demand (whether BP + HS is better or not really is beside the point here, but to get technical, BP + HS has its own downsides, as you need to make sure to not put your smoke field on an already existing one, it’s more expensive in terms of initiative and it takes 1.25s to complete).

Basically, our offhand weapons are designed well (again, they are not perfect and offhand dagger skills are too expensive as mentioned 3 long posts ago), so that it’s almost impossible to adjust them accordingly.

You either end up with a smoke field that teleports you to your target, a built in shadowstep for C&D (imagine the crying on the forums) or a shadowstep + cripple (Dancing Dagger). Either way, those skills would be way, way too good to carry all that and that’s just in order to make these weapon sets more attractive compared to the short bow in terms of mobility.

The thief just doesn’t have enough weapon skills to carry all that, so that, at the very least, the short bow will probably remain the only viable option for mobility.

Huh?
Adding new weapons doesn’t change that the previous exist.

The only thing really suffering in mobility is the Pistol, one has none, the other requires melee range. Sword doesn’t excel as strongly without a target. HS can get you distance, but not vertical. I don’t see much of a qualm. Just fix what is there.
HS is a fine mobility skill, it doesn’t get vertical but so what, it’s good at horizontal distance which is fine in it’s own right. Improve the access to good Increased Movement Speeds and D/ will Fall in line due to Heartseeker.

You can address thief mobility without ever touching a single off-hand.
-Make both Infiltrators Strike, and Infiltrator’s Signet Ground-targeted.
-Have Body shot warp you back like Phase retreat. Throw a chain skill to restrict it’s kiting like what has been done with Infiltrator Strike.
- Improve the IMS by going over acrobatics, improving Expeditious Dodger, removing Assassin retreat, re-evaluating SOS, etc. Indirectly boosting HS and directly boosting mobility.

Don’t ever need to touch an off-hand.

The only thing wrong with Venoms is the Cooldown.

Meh dont miss RA, Hot-joins and solo-join plays out about the same.
I miss FA and JQ.
So gewd.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Greeting your team upon entering an arena (=/=greeting upon being invited into a party) usually implies the player is new to the place (tpvp), or worse, new to pvp. No regular player does that…ever.

This is the most anti-social crap I think I’ve read on these forums.
“If they greet me, they’re new”
Lol wot.

You didn’t think that through when you said that.

+1 do not want to see this map until the bridges aren’t shadowstep deadzones.

Bee dog speaking a lot of sense.

They were implemented to deal with obtaining gear in PvE so they could prolong that process. Doubt you’ll see anything for PvP, it’s to encourage cross-play?

Stooperdale.3560:

The traps seem too situational and I’d certainly get rid of shadow trap and turn that into a trait ability.

Been thinking this for awhile. They could divide Ambush trap into two, so theres no RNG in it. Take a melee or take a range.

Assassin’s reward doesn’t even trigger half the time because it waits until the animation is done….
Pray every day for 2nd boon removal on FS 2nd hit. Already got the nickname “Shattering Assault”.

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

jportell.2197:

What I find funny is why are the even introducing this boon hate at all? I mean sure warriors may need it but thieves/mesmers/necro all have ways to deal with boons currently in some form or another… this introduction of boon hate is just unnecessary and I do not play a build/class that heavily relies on boons. I play one of the classes that can already strip the boons… Which is why I don’t see this as necessary maybe instead of the thief getting an ability in PvP steal can just steal boons…

You’re talking about a 20 point thing in tricker every 36-32 seconds for 2? Or Flanking strike, which is not free by any play of the imagination. Not that I disagree, no boon hate, removal plz on my infiltrators signet..

I think that would be fine… Just work with the boon removal that classes already have… However I am not sure why they are focusing so much in this… I mean thieves get a damage bonus for each condition a target has on them (Deadly arts 25) so they should up the conditions a thief can dish or make venoms better in pvp…

Only prob I’ve had with boon removal is there being none on utils. Daggers don’t need boon removal or hate unless you’re seriously reworking the weapon. It’s been sheer power from the get-go.

jportell.2197:

What I find funny is why are the even introducing this boon hate at all? I mean sure warriors may need it but thieves/mesmers/necro all have ways to deal with boons currently in some form or another… this introduction of boon hate is just unnecessary and I do not play a build/class that heavily relies on boons. I play one of the classes that can already strip the boons… Which is why I don’t see this as necessary maybe instead of the thief getting an ability in PvP steal can just steal boons…

You’re talking about a 20 point thing in tricker every 36-32 seconds for 2? Or Flanking strike, which is not free by any play of the imagination. Not that I disagree, no boon hate, removal plz on my infiltrators signet..

100b was hit by the same way PW was last patch…

If they removed any skill from the thief at the moment for a new one are you currently tied to any skill on the thief at the moment to let it go?

Am curious.

You don’t have to say soon, just update if there has been a delay and anyone sane will understand.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So with the Thief, we feel like their straight burst with some sets is too good as it is (Mug/C &D/BS/heartseeker), but a lot of other things are weak in comparison, which is bad.

The goal is to allow them to punish boons (something we also want to try with the Warrior) while also improving their mobility with all weapon sets (since Shortbow is already strong at that, but it overpowers other options).

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

Whoa hold it there John, be careful with your words.
You guys said master of Single target burst, stealth and mobility…
Pistol, Pistol has no stealth, it has no mobility, it’s got wonky burst.
Sword Pistol after haste nerf, really doesn’t have single target burst, it has mobility, it doesn’t have stealth.
In Spvp Tactical last 2 max for 4s reveal vs the 3 max for 4s reveal in WvW and PvE. If the goal is to maintain as much synergy as possible, given that quickness is nerfed for one and reveal is longer as a second, is it not about time to revert some things or go back under the microscope to reanalyze them? After all, Mug is next on your radar, can’t just throw even more builds under the bus.
Actually pretty much the only thing what you guys said back then is true for, is daggers!? I guess you could say P/D condi burst if you stretch it.

You say the goal is to punish boons we start thinking on every set. Not that it should be, since when has the Assassin ever punished a boon in its existance? It removes them. You can call a Pig a cow but it’s still a pig, where is the boon removal of old? 250 years to downgrade? You can’t be serious.

Players told you RNG was a bad idea for Steal in Spvp, telling you now.
Boon removal, not punishment. Keep it real.

You can preach balance for the 3 formats, I don’t have an issue with that however… Thieves have issues in PvE and I know S/P isn’t sticking out in WvW especially after the quickness nerf. P/Pistol is still a duck set you switch out of the second someone sneezes at you.

You guys also have a weird fetish for multi-hit attacks or something that is something apparently Single-Target burst in a game where Crit damage and Crits make up so much of your actual damage. The real damage of skills like FS and PW which would be crazy strong if they were single hit fluctuates terribly because of reliant on crits for damage and them taking multiple hits…just doesn’t stabilize.

Also John, if you have time. How often do you use “potent Poison” because I swear it is not “potent”.

Been playing smite lately.
Then theres also planetside2s built in voice which helps on some level even if you yourself don’t have the mike.
It can be kinda hard to communicate in GW2 man.
I don’t mind saying whats going on around me, but doing so during combat? Pfft not happening unless the person is just really poor, or build wars plays its head and they can’t do anything regardless.

However I also realized even if you say crap doesn’t mean anyone is listening…srs.

Still don’t understand why Keg Brawl is not part of the mists. You know in GW1 it would be…

I once literally went from 17k health to 0 faster than I could react because my Pistol whip, hit everyone on their team.
Now to me, that was dumb as hell, because if everyone on your team is dumb enough to all clump up on that level.
Yelling out in Teamspeak “What the kitten” for 2 minutes.

There are uses for it, as well as Hard to Catch, however they are niche, and have that dere 1 minute cooldown (le-gasp), so they aren’t easy slots for sure.

Yes bring back 15% on PW.
The set still needs some QoL improvements (thief in general does, wtf is with AR?) but it be a good step to going where you need it to go.
Initial design had it 15% stronger than it is, and haste screwed it up.

felivear.1536:

Evan Lesh.3295:

I would love to find of a solution to this problem. Its a big barrier for new players learning the game.
Brain dump:
How many of your own cooldowns must you know to be effective. Skills? Traits? Sigils? Runes? Attunements? Kits? Transforms? Everything?
How many cooldowns are too many cooldowns / whats the minimum number to know?
Same question for enemies. How much skill is involved with remembering enemy cooldowns?
Would this new piece of UI benefit PvE the same amount?
Where could this UI live?
First thing that pops into my mind would look just like the quick-loot tray on the right side of the screen with a scrolling list of ordered cooldowns showing name/icon.
I can’t think of any way this could work for enemies.

I don’t think knowing the internal cool down of an enemy player’s move is important. But having your own displayed somewhere in a UI element that you can toggle is essential. There is just so much guess work in so many things in PvP in this game. What is my MMR? What is my dps? What are my internal cool down? What is the healing that this trait provides? What is the health of the enemy I’m about to attack?

Quoting because it’s basically exactly how I feel.
Some more info on our selves would be so greatly appreciated.

Ty for the post Evan.
To that end I honestly cannot think of a single game that tells you enemy cooldowns, so I don’t know what reason there is to include enemy cooldowns. Not really a matter of skill but trumps. Kind of trivializes or marginalizes if that is the word encounters when you already know the Warrior still has X amount of time down on their stunbreak/heal/Elite whatever.

Also agree that going forward you should avoid more ICD’s though.

They should switch it with Hidden thief, which would like Kleptomaniac…make sense given the other minor traits.

I will since I never said I wanted to see an enemies?
If that was important wouldn’t it make more sense to request their skills themself?
Anyways no point in repeating myself to someone who wants to tell me what * I* am saying lol wot, arrogance.

Oni thats what I’m saying. Our traits in certain parts are similar to skills in that regard. Sure for always active effects it doesn’t matter since there is no ICD. However otherwise situations where you may want to either retract or push forward since you know they’re up or down don’t come into play as consciously since sure you know when they’re down right after they pop but otherwise it’s unclear unless you’re using a stop watch every time one pops. Popping Panic strike on a guy at 10% makes no sense if you know its up and can instead have someone else pop the last health while you switch to immolize lock the necro.

Or I play Ele as well and was using it as an example of skills that have ICD’s?
Again you cannot read properly because your clear bias has you assuming the worst.
If you think im losing sleep because of enemy eles Arcane block your full of it, it’s 3 measly attacks. That isn’t even a full dagger auto.

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

Who cares if you Spvp as well in this context?
This is Structured PvP discussion who gives a kitten how someone fares in WvW to that end? It’s not about elitism, it’s a clear derailing of the discussion into arbitrary WvW vs Spvp talk. How you fare in WvW and your skill within it is not directly correlating to playing Spvp, nor do your kills in either mode translate into direct prowess in the other.

Of course knowing you I fully expect ANOTHER post, further pressing on to this subject like you can’t get the hint. Come on. Do it. “Someone plays WvW so they are eligible for discussion of best Thief, when we are talking conquest”. Shall we throw the best PvE thief in here as well since we’re going off on crap that has no bearing to structured?

To the actual subject, it’s going to difficult for most to get an idea, because it’s hard to see most people playing even if they’re at the top since they may not necessarily stream, and you have to go against them all the time. The OP’s stuff has guys who haven’t played in a long while man, and other people you see here posted are from what EU and I’ve never heard of. Not to any fault of their own, but it’s not like it’s as easy to watch teams atm as it was in GW1. Would like to see some EU players since they’re constantly boasting themself vs NA.

Pick one Arh.
You are
A: Trolling
B: Cannot read
C: in need of help.
This isn’t an Ele thread.
It’s about trait ICD’s and them being missing from the UI for you to even see your own ICD’s. Hence “needing stop watches”.

How long do you plan to throw yourself in front of a bus at the very mention of ele regardless of the context?
“I’d assume you’d have 3 stop watches or something to know when your trait is back up…”

Learn 2 read.

PvE.
Player vs Ele?

Revealed prevents you from stealthing inbetween the relatively long attack patterns of some enemies otherwise completely nullifying any likelihood of them attacking.
Not that this doesn’t happen with /P, but this would then also trivialize many boss encounters (whom otherwise are largely immune to blind).
PvE as well cannot handle a lack of Reveal.

I get that you didn’t want us having too much clutter when we’re busy dealing with Elementalists, but is there a way to add more traits to status screen to see them or something?
Like to know when Panic strike is about to get off recharge, or the ICD on Arcane block and so forth?
I think as it is now, for optimal play (that I doubt anyone will bother to do because it’s too much work) I’d assume you’d have 3 stop watches or something to know when your trait is back up…

Throw on Pain response, Shadows Embrace, Fleet of Foot A sigil of purification, Shadow step, Signet of Agility, and Blinding Powder maybe change something for RFI. Rune of Melandru/Water and let us know how that works for ya brah.

Could prep better.
Karl doesn’t seem a master of winging-it, so just have some more things written down before hand. It would probably only take 2-3 minutes, so it’s easier to fall back on. Looks like they’re reading a list of topics/change-log, instead of having some statements, so then they have to freestyle the topic, but that’s Sharps strength?
Statements.
Ele: We want to implement things on other professions to handle them better instead of nerfing them. Making headway on getting the Focus on the playing field.
Thief: Mug nerfed to put less emphasis on instantaneous damage. Improving X for blah, blah, blah.
Warrior: We nerfed Hammer because too many people are using it now as well as Axe for the same reason. Stomp now insta kills minimized Engineers and the smoke cloud blows away Mist form killing eles instantly, wanted Warrior to have counter play.

evilapprentice.6379:

WyldKat.4712:

So you have something to dodge, that’s why.

So normalize them and let people dodge one of the swings to take 1/3 (or 1/2) less damage – sword already completely lacks burst (which is fine, but still a fact). Making its only hard hitting abilities easy to see and slow to execute seems silly on top of that fact.

You can hit 9k with FS if you want to with 1 util which prob isnt needed before accounting for mug which can also hit 5k or a flame blast for an addition 1k. The attack animation is what 1.3 seconds? Anet…wants telegraphed moves for reaction.

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

That is too specific I believe “Eventually”.

There is a new finisher for pvp to spend yo money on.

You lose points ranging from 10-80 depending on how it rolls.

Everytime you win a game, the ratings rolls a number between 0.1 and 6. This number is then added to your rating + an additional number between 0.1-10 if their total rating exceeds your teams by 30.
When calculating the leaderboards it then subtracts 10 from your rating if you play ele, and multiplies your rating between a number from 0.1 to 40 each day. The sum is your rank on the leaderboard.

As wvw has stomping.
Anywhere you can stomp basically prevents /rank as that diminishes the value of the pvp finishers.

daydream.2938:

zone.1073:

Vicarious.3047:

zone.1073:

Other than that, warriors are completely A-OK at the moment.

So basically other then everything important for an sPvP warrior they’re fine?

Gotcha lol

Well yes, but remember that Warriors are godly essential in PvE because they don’t insta-die in PvE. When they can stay alive, they can offer so much to the team. So, the class’s potential is there. Just needs a few tweaks in PvP and Warriors are good to go. The arms and legs are in good condition; it’s just the cartilage in the elbow and kneecap joints that need some fixing up.

They really need to start splitting abilities more between pve/pvp, *because if this is the primary issue *its really holding up the game.

It isn’t?
If the pve state of things mattered to that extent there’s quite a few professions lacking there already.
Mobs can be altered.
Just seems they’re reluctant to make hasty decisions.

People should stop thinking about one shot and start thinking about ganking and taking out the already injured.
You’d think a trait that get’s its strength from when people are 50% or less (ergo, weakened) would be a sign of that.

To that end if you’re picking off the injured piece meal after they’ve eaten some aoe.
Do you “really” need to go full Berserk as a dagger build?
You can decide that.

Who’s bought it already?
Gonna buy a couple :o.

Suralin.3947:

The only problem they have is Stealth. They can’t stand an invisible attacker. So long as Thieves can stealth, they will complain. And for that reason alone, ANet should not have touched the Stealth debuff.

If you played GW1 you know it does not end there
If the thief could not stealth they would be complaining about Shadowsteps.
I can 100% guarantee this with every fiber in my body.
Especially since some have already been talking about shadowstepping.

S/D vs D/D difficulty does not matter.

You will adjust. Its not a biggie just used to the old timing

Given some contemporary developments I’d think, main-hand as well.
Just pointing out how any concerns on how the thief plays seems atm to be focused on the Dagger.

Pyrial.2917:

ensoriki.5789:

Pyrial.2917:

No, the pvp playerbase complains that there is nothing to play toward. Let me just get ahead of the, “play for fun” comment. Let’s see how much fun the pve playerbase has when we stick them in the same instance and have them kill the same mobs that now drop now loot. Yeah, have fun!

Don’t they do that to themselves already?

No, because every month they get something new…

Which they complain about and go back to shoving themselves in a dungeon to kill the same mob.