Guild Wars 2

shimmerless.4560:

ensoriki.5789:

HGH isn’t running crit % damage to do double damage scaling off of 25 stacks of might while having instantaneous burst possibilities.

Okay… but they’re running conds, which is apparently what people are complaining about. Might goes for both power and cond, you’re either using it to burst or you’re using it for conds. If you’re saying that Might burst is too strong, then I have to ask what the issue is with the “HGH Engineer” since it’s not a crit burst spec. It seems to me you either have an issue with Might or no issue at all, since being irked solely by the way someone is using the Might to deal damage is contrived.

The hell are you talking about. Did you just imagine up something to attack what you imagined?

There’s a significant difference to the numbers a Mesmer can put out under 25 stacks of might that they were setting up themselves, vs what the Engi is bringing in the current build. There isn’t an issue in Might as a boon.

It’s in a different trait line.
Or in other words, you can opt out for Thrill because your Fury source is coming from somewhere else, and take a trait like flanking strike for more overall damage.

Or you can take both for overall more consistent damage as a result of longer upkeep on Fury.

HGH isn’t running crit % damage to do double damage scaling off of 25 stacks of might while having instantaneous burst possibilities.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

I’ve made some changes to orb running that’ll show up in the end of April build. Ride the Lightning distance will be reduced while carrying the the orb, and gaining invulnerability will drop it.

Looks like I have to make a gem store purchase now.

luxen.8376:

I think that’s called kegbrawl

Keg Brawl is the best mode.

Ha is it really that skillfull?
PM Build Ostrich.

style.6173:

No No No. Mug only hits hard if you are using a power build. You do NOT see big damage if you are using a typical S/D type build.

Far as I’ve ever known 10/30/30 is the typical S/D build or was for a significant period of time. Mug actually does hit hard in that set, but most importantly it plugs up the damage hole that S/D kinda has without it. You could take other traits but everything else is much more long-term in terms of a fight, outside of mmmm venom sharing you could say.

Einlanzer.1627:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

P/P has a serious, rather overt, problem. That problem is Vital Shot. Vital Shot was very clearly designed to shoot significantly faster than it actually does, meaning that it is much weaker than it should be.

This creates a DPS vaccuum that forces you into an excessive reliance on Unload dumping in an only moderately successful attempt to stave off the loss of DPS from Vital Shot. This also has the side-effect of more or less zeroing out any tactical usability of the set as attempting to maintain even mediocre DPS keeps you in a state of perpetual Initiative starvation.

I seriously can’t believe it hasn’t been fixed yet and that there isn’t more uproar about it.

What tactical usability? HS, BP and BS?
None of those graduate P/P past Duck status.
What are you gonna do with your range hit, shoot of Vital shots in Black Powder like a thief training dummy but without the initiative pool? No to expensive.
Use the inkling HS? Not enough damage, even with a faster RoF.
Man P/P’s set in general is just lacking and VS firing even a half second faster ain’t solving that.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

ensoriki.5789:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMHO, the only reason mug exist in almost every build is not directly mug’s fault since it is the only one that makes sense to trait for at that trait level.

Leave mug as is instead fix the other choices so there’s actually something to choose from.

The reason it exists in every build is because your damage without it as a burst oriented build is put under scrutiny and it’s very efficient at what it does partially as a result of being instant. Back fighting and Venom might are fine traits. Corrosive Traps is actually quite good, the issue is bringing traps in the first place.

Are you agreeing with me because that’s exactly what I just said?

Describing the other choices as “fine” and “quite good” says a lot about those alternatives.

When do positive statements imply anything negative?
Mug is “too good” similar to quickness before the nerf, but like quickness if it gets nuked. It’s instantaneous damage that can at times go for 5+k damage.
There isn’t anything wrong with the traits I mentioned before.
However like the nerf to quickness/haste, if they hit Mug you’ll likely see more builds phase out because they’re not able to put out enough meaningful damage in required time-frames.

All I’m saying is Mug being nerfed makes a lot of sense granted what it is, but nerfing it considering the current state of the thief won’t really be helping overall balance and diversity in any format (at least for us thieves) in the immediate short-term unless they’re pushing their longer objectives with that nerf. I doubt they’d do so however since they’ll likely justify that a mug nerf requires observing how the thief plays in all 3 formats post-nerf before making changes…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMHO, the only reason mug exist in almost every build is not directly mug’s fault since it is the only one that makes sense to trait for at that trait level.

Leave mug as is instead fix the other choices so there’s actually something to choose from.

The reason it exists in every build is because your damage without it as a burst oriented build is put under scrutiny and it’s very efficient at what it does partially as a result of being instant. Back fighting and Venom might are fine traits. Corrosive Traps is actually quite good, the issue is bringing traps in the first place.

Gandarel.5091:

They should really add more skills.

+1

The few they have are already too much for them.

Hot-join is supposed to be your quick fix of less organized Conquest….pretty much RA/Solo-que, where leaving matters less because ideally a space will be filled quickly.
They screwed it up by adding 8v8’s in the first place and at this point unless they’re lucky changing the maximum amount of people will backfire.
If they’re going to do it, they may as well not half kitten it, and put it to the proper 5v5.

It is not going to happen tho.

Whats so tough about HgH?
People overratin everything these days.

Oldgrimm.8521:

i would rather put that trait in a 30 point slot,

so thieves will be forced to go full DA tree

Which only kills build diversity, but doesn’t actually change anything other than losing Panic strike/venom trait.

Mug is like pre-patch quickness. Makes up for inadequacies in the thief kit. Instant damage isn’t exactly great for what this game said it would be despite how useful it is ATM.

Your basing a shadow arts 5 pt trait off a 30 pt grandmaster?
Not really, since you’re forcing crits.

Wtf does that have to do with Shadow arts, and why would you force a Critical based trait on the toughness lines minor traits?

Zodian.6597:

Guys, give them some time to stabilize and to draw back a few players. Enough people will complain and Anet will eventually show the rating numbers. In the future we’ll probably get solo/team segregated boards too, but until then, just form a team or pug competitively! -if all you do is casual solo queue, don’t expect to be one of the top players in North America (in any game). Tough love guys.

Didn’t they want to consider changing the rating formula?
Which would be a valid reason not to show it if they’re just going to change it next week as a result of feedback (optimism).

Nunganok.4590:

Ezrael.6859:

I couldn’t care less about these leader-boards.

What we really need are custom arenas with lots of different server settings available so that we can create our own game modes by changing respawn timers / amount of respawns / points to victory / team size / which nodes are turned on or off, NPCs etc.

Make the game fun again by ourselves, as apparently the devs are incapable of doing so, at least within the next year. It seems to take months to make even the smallest changes, only to see it abandoned a few months later.

SOTG is a joke – just here’s a basic description of the professions and we know Ele has too much healing so we’ll fix that by nerfing quickness and therefore burst damage.

Totally agree. I wish people would stop demanding superficial crap that makes them feel cooler for having a rank next to their name. We need content.

ensoriki.5789:

That makes no sense.
If they Reset K/D today, but don’t reset ratings. You will see the exact same thing.
Those with high rating will be up there but with low crap like 12 wins.
Just how it goes if you reset a statistic and leave the others the same.
I guess you could say the rating should’ve decayed more to prevent that.

I dont think you get it…Thats the problem…and your last sentence there is a good idea which is what this thread is about. In the same paragraph you said you didnt understand what the problem was, stated the problem and then stated something they couldve done to make it better/prevent the garbage.

I get it what I’m saying is that the actual visual representation of 12 doesn’t actually mean people are playing 16 games and becoming the top players so it’s not the leaderboards being faulty in ranking. obv I then proposed how you’d keep it more in line.

That makes no sense.
If they Reset K/D today, but don’t reset ratings. You will see the exact same thing.
Those with high rating will be up there but with low crap like 12 wins.
Just how it goes if you reset a statistic and leave the others the same.
I guess you could say the rating should’ve decayed more to prevent that.

It tells you their name. Go look them up and find out.

Nunganok.4590:

SwickHobo.5096:

not every1 cares about rank. Solo Que is still a great option for the semi competetive player who can’t stand the trash that is hot join.

Yeah but a lot of people actually do care, so…why should the fact that some children dont care and are lazy negatively effect those of us that do care? “Semi-competitive”? Theres nothing competitive about these solo queues. If you dont care you arent competitive in any way shape or form beyond thinking its cool when you get a lucky win since you arent trying.
Effect how? A full teams rating will be marginally affected by solo que participants unless they lose, in which case jokes on them. If you’d like to suggest the other formats for solo joining of worth go ahead. There aren’t any. Note I can tell your full of crap since you’re trying to dictate what is and is not “trying”. Solo que by it’s nature will never be a competition relative to team-play seperate or not, as the profession set-up is randomly done. Build wars plays it’s head easily when you solo que, and that won’t change presuming they follow up on their goal of removing character swapping.

SwickHobo.5096:

I’ve been playing solo q’s non stop for the past idk 5 days, i’ve yet to have a single leaver/afk. So i’m gonna say your being slightly dramatic.

You’re lying.

It’s still rather dramatic, I haven’t had anyone leave yet today

1. Don’t care.
2. Lack of alternative options, given that 5v5’s are dead.
3. Couldn’t understand why the hell everyone was zerging in WvW and letting themselves getting backcapped* as a result of their horrid tunnel vision.
4. The actual alternative is to log-out and open up another game.

Guesting solves everything.

Ostricheggs.3742:

clear because of grenades being the hardest skillshot in the game

I don’t recall grenades being any harder to land than Cluster bombing or Arcing Arrow at the same distance.

^ Which isn’t a problem of updating builds for Spvp and wvw.
They should improve their PvE encounters so that what some professions can bring is actually valued.

Lilianzzz.7924:

Can someone explain to me the leaderboard logic, because i don’t seem to get it.

People higher on the leaderboard are worth more to beat.
So they boost your rating more when you beat teams with them on it, teams comprised entirely of people on the leaderboard give an even higher boost.

So this means if all you do is beat people on the leaderboard even if you have a low amount of games you’ll quickly be boosted to relevance.

If you are not going to implement reveal when stealth drops then the solution is to nerf Cloak and Daggers damage to the ground and force it into a pure utility skill as with Black Powder, and Infiltrator’s Arrow as the other slot 5s and redistributing the damage elsewhere.

Rym.1469:

In fact, OP has touched a very sensitive part of GW2 pvp – % critical damage. It forces every non-condition spec to rush for precision and crit damage, since it has faaar to great impact on damage. Seriously, double, triple damage by one stat? Crits are the way to go, heck, they can’t be even considered as “crits”, since most of attacks are crits. With 80-100% crit chance it’s not even funny, seriously, we have almost NO way to prevent players from critting all the way or even reducing their crit chance/damage. In my honest opinion, critical damage should be reworked or deleted, to bring only little boosts (up to 30%, say so), mostly from traits. Instead, it should be reworked into something more balanced, like Armor/Boon(?) Penetration.

This.
Double damage off one stat, before other modifiers are even in place is asinine. Thing ends up that if you aren’t critting or dealing conditions you’re wondering where your damage is at because Power itself is not any stronger than Toughness.

Mug
D/P
Short bow

Caffynated.5713:

ensoriki.5789:

World vs World IS conquest, The goal is the exact same.
Stand on a circle to claim it as yours and collect points from it. Collect more than your opponents. In WvW they put inherit protection around the circle, in the forms of a gate and some npcs.

Which is fine in itself.
If people were playing WvW just to win, you would see less 1v1’s because 1v1’s are “not” important to WvW. Since individuals matter less in WvW you’ll see all sorts of player rangers though and the depth that the format has fall to the wayside.

Less than 1% of your time in WvW will be spent contesting a circle. The rest is map control, logistics and siege.
Much of your time is spent assaulting it, just because it’s not visible doesn’t change the ideaology. Little time is spent contesting a circle because you’ve already killed any thing that would prolong a contest. In fact they don’t even appear until every npc is dead. You still assault a point. The main difference between WvW and Spvp objective wise (ignoring gear/pve) is scaling. WvW puts it on a larger scale. This also happens to diminish the significance of individuals which is my point. Or to point it differently if we made every circle visible from the start it be a clearer image that it’s still a point assault/defend format.

Solo roamers are an important part of disrupting enemy strategy. Solo/small unit players can flip a camp, kill stragglers/reinforcements, kill supply yaks/runners, contest waypoints, distract zergs and more.
Where does small unit come into 1v1 talk? 1v1 is not a significant portion of WvW server success. The end-game of WvW is simply to get more points than the rest and lock-down the map. You’re not really saying at all, how 1v1’s are important to WvW success. They generally are not. 1v1 typically it’s 1+ a bunch of npc’s defending, vs 1 other person. Which earnestly allows time if players were communicating to have another player come in to assist on either side depending on distance to the nearest WP. Especially given the defensive boost of npc assist similar to defending Ruins with Shark assist. 1 person is not a distraction a zerg unless they all have ADHD, but that goes to the point of individuals being lost in WvW from the scaling.
Can you solo roam sure. Is 1v1 important? Not really. Take Spvp, scale it for 300 or so players. WvW, the importance of a 1v1 diminishes even more as the numbers rise, and if (but not happening) the entire team was really communicating. It would worsen. WvW isn’t a 1v1 format…
Which somewhat goes to the OP’s point of being outnumbered on either side. Same happens here as well. There just isn’t a gear requirement

I love that Pain response doesn’t exist.
So bad we forgot about it.

World vs World IS conquest, The goal is the exact same.
Stand on a circle to claim it as yours and collect points from it. Collect more than your opponents. In WvW they put inherit protection around the circle, in the forms of a gate and some npcs.

Which is fine in itself.
If people were playing WvW just to win, you would see less 1v1’s because 1v1’s are “not” important to WvW. Since individuals matter less in WvW you’ll see all sorts of player rangers though and the depth that the format has fall to the wayside.

Recommend scrolling to bottom since a lot is just beating the dead-horse.
I don’t think you really need to split skills.
In GW1 we saw the addition of Skeletons of Dhuum to Underworld encounters and many other PvE changes to mobs in general. These were reactions to player capabilities, without having to balance the professions skills themself, you were able to balance the environment to the players.
In GW2, this happened with the Fire Elemental event after much outcry that it was too difficult. This also happens to dungeon encounters when they’re either being too easy, hard or tedious (health reductions, mob additions, objective changes).

The key thing to note is instead of balance professions to the environment you can change the environment to the players. To this extent considering PvE isn’t that important not because I have any issue with PvE, but because you’re able to change the environment there to suit the needs of the players/professions within.
Say you did a change to Ranger and were concerned because Rangers have some good Open World presence. You’re able to change things in the Open world to factor Rangers. So whatever change happened you can say for instance “These dam rangers are trivializing Queensdale, let’s throw in something to trip them up.”

You can’t change parameters on the same level in WvW or SPvP because it’s now the professions vs professions instead of that professions vs npcs.
If Warriors are just destroying spvp content, and you got to nerf the warriors what sense does it make to say “well shoot then they’ll be even worse in PvE and they’re the worst profession there” when you could say “let’s do it, and we’ll see wtf is going on in PvE that makes them poor there and adjust it.”.

After-all Karl did bring up that Ranger pets were getting agony additions. Now what did that affect for SPvP and WvW? Absolutely nothing, but you the change just shows again that you can change the parameters in PvE to improve any difficulties or lack thereof that professions have to that format.

The reason to do otherwise?
1. It’s work to go and deal with mobs after a profession patch
- Granted, however even now it’s not like mobs were changed to counter Banners and venom share circles. I think it’s evident that there is quite some flexibility in “imbalance” within PvE so long as the content can be completed. Otherwise more changes would’ve been made in that format by now.

2. Rather allocate resources elsewhere
- Which I suppose is fine in itself, however you already have people who do this very thing already. Would make it slower. However fortunately for PvE, so long as content can be completed it’s alright. Now for PvP, “Winning” is basically the content, so if a profession combo is poor in that it’s a more significant effect. You see this from the player base of PvE which will run all-manner of things (myself included) so long as the content can be completed regardless of effectiveness.

3. Focused on the short-term
- Why?

4. It’s not about PvE vs Spvp vs WvW, it’s just Spvp balance vs WvW balance
- However first you have to think about to what and on what? WvW end-game is collecting as much points and locking-down a map. It’s a series of Legacy of the Foefire like objectives scattered throughout a map. When you say something is strong in WvW and so you’re wary of Spvp changes because of it. Strong how? Outside of Pve Stats and Food, there isn’t much in WvW that differs from Spvp itself. Many of these mechanics are shared.
Trebuchet in Khylo – Siege (including treb) in WvW
Npc assist in Ruins – Npc assist with Quaggons/kraits/ogres. Which again can be altered as a result of being NPC’s.
NPC guards in Foefire – Supply/fort guards in WvW – again..npcs…can alter the environment.
Gate in foefire – Gates in WvW? Huge difference in health however these are balanced primarily around Sieges so it’s not even a profession issue in general..
Guild Lord – Tower champion in WvW? Npc…alterable…
Standing in Circles in Spvp – Standing in Circles in WvW? Not an issue and one that can also be changed on an individual level…
However to tl;dr WvW shares many mechanics, and the goals themselves are pretty similar, stand in circles, eventually get points. Hold as many of an area as you can to win. WvW adds some hoops and makes the circle bigger. If you’ve got WvW balance…maybe you should look at the food/stats that WvW have instead…112% crit rate? You can’t be serious.

tl;dr conclusion:
From PvE events (like capture Arah) to WvW capturing Forts to Conquest. The game primarily has a good love for Circles, NPC’s and gates (foefire). All of which you can alter around the players. Since GW1 you were able to balance the environment around players instead of the other way around. If you do it like that you’ll probably be better off then giving a hoot about an environment you can change.

Adaneshade.2409:

If you use sword, you have spammable purge with Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow return

15 ini for 3 conditions is certainly spammable. Best be careful with them words.

Last sentence confirms my suspicions.

Devless sounds like a nice change of pace. Hope the panel is bigger then to account for that.

Silver.4798:

It has tremendous potential I think, I absolutely love IS/SS, but for the life of me I can’t really figure out where the damage output comes from in a S/P set or a S/D set. Is the main damage coming just from the auto attack?

Attacking off of stealth seems to not do much damage, pistol whip is ok-ish esp the interrupt but I think it does less damage than an autoattack would in that time. The 3 attack on a S/D set is a nice evade but is defn not a heavy damage dealer.

For the players running primarily the sword main hand, would you mind educating me =)

Flanking strike can hit for 5-7k or more (given boosts). Total damage is about 7% less than what a Backstab will do given the same spec. It completes faster than the Sword auto attack chain as well.

However yes the auto-attack is a big part of the Sword.

Fairly sure PW > Auto-attack however it’s got 100 blades syndrome where getting all the hits to connect isn’t highly likely and because of having so many hits the damage fluctuates greatly going from 4k dmg to 7k is not uncommon in the slightest as well due to weakness it’s common that “something” is going to glance.

LoneDeranger.5963:

Well, if they ever introduce custom tournaments, this could be an option for the creator of the tournament.

I am open to suggestions. Maybe each team should get to ban one profession entirely?

The ban is, of course, global, so each team would ban the specific trait line or profession for their own set-up as well. (I forgot to mention this but I thought it was self-explanatory.)
So, if you wanted to play a burst thief you wouldn’t ban the respective traits, thus allowing the enemy team to have a burst thief as well.

So just crap over the game?
they ban Burst Thief.
they ban Ele.
Since they banned that, I’ll take something different.
Eh I don’t like Rangers, think Imma remove traps from the game.
Mmmm well since I have no burst thief, and my Ele got kitten #8230; think I’ll take a bite out of the Mesmer too, or maybe the Guardian. Don’t really need to hit the Warrior since Anet did that for me already.

So if you like your Power spec thief? Go jump off a bus Kthx.

Worth playing? S/D pre-nerf was stronger than current burst. It’s pretty much still stronger than D/ in WvW especially post-culling, with the exception that WvW allows simply obscene stats like 112% crit damage, which can make D/ burst more outrageous. Though the quickness nerf poked at S/D, it still is a naturally hard hitting set and would’ve been even more monstrous in it’s current state if DD and CnD hadn’t been nerfed.

Absolutely terrible.
Considering current build diversity, even removing 1 trait line you can practically remove certain professions from the game entirely.
I’d see a thief, ban Critical strikes. or deadly arts. Hell probably Deadly arts so I can kill Mug and Venom Share at the same time while straight nuking any burst thief builds significantly, leaving basically only condi thiefs and what Cruuk? They could roll without DA, sure, but mmm that damage nerf, and that lack of instant damage. Quite manageable.

Then I’ll remove Water on the Eles, or Hgh, Guardian bunking, or kill of whatever was left of the warrior for good measure just to say I did.

Even if there was better build Diversity it’s pretty cheese considering there is only 8 professions. Counter-picking maps is fine, but this? No thanks jefferson.

No the thread was merely a dumping ground basically for complaints and suggestions to remove clutter.
You could say the 4s reveal was a result of feedback though, but considering how it came out of left-field, probably was just a spurr of the moment thing.

Plague.5329:

Most of the problem is that there’s very little utility in GW2. Everything is just DPS. So when someone does more DPS than you do, there’s no longer any point to using your own way of dealing DPS. Same with builds. Why use one build over another when they’re all just roads to DPS? Just use the one that deals the most.

Skills and overall design just needs to be less obsessed with numbers. Skills need to actively DO things, and those things need to matter far more than the amount of damage they’re dealing.

There is utility in gw2, quite a bit I would say and skills do “do things”
Look at “Surprise Shot” for instance. Really good utility on that skill.
However it’s not backstab. Obviously there’s protection granting skills, blocks, mist form, Elixer U and all that jazz.
There is a lot of % modifiers in this game which generate more interest in straight damage, or going into conditions and not giving a kitten about Protection.

They mentioned it last sotg.
It’s an all encompassing change they want to do for the whole game, so they have to look at the numbers for all their formats considering the scope of what they want to do.

Silver Halliwell.4735:

Regardless of what any of you above posters say, clearly you never played GW1 and if you did it was not prior to the alcohol spam patch…

The amount of title grind in GW1 makes GW2 look like a saint.

Inf sig should be changed just for the idea that the game shouldn’t play itself. Not that it hasn’t been helpful, but it shouldn’t. Just a double benefit that it’ll improve signet builds, and increase some diversity by hitting at that “monopoly” that Shadowstep has over most builds. Not that it’ll take over considering the lack of condi removal and how prevalent that is right now.

How about they don’t buff projectiles until they recognize that if I shadowstep while an engineer/war/jesus/Obama shoots a bullet, even at the end of his animation he’ll turn around 360 degrees to fire it back at me.
Now we gotta have more piercing auto-facing bullets and lasah beam channel skills?
Someone has to draw the line.

Dasorine.1964:

A utility shouldn’t rely on traits to make it useful either so yes it IS just about poison unless you decide to build your character around using them.

Would you be happy with scorpion wire if you had to trait specifically to add on the pull function?

I do agree with this, that at a bare level they’re very underwhelming. Save Devourer which is an alright slot.

Is that supposed to be an argument?
It is added to your damage. Just like Power is.
Don’t be simple minded Daecollo it hurts my head.

phor.7952:

Poison simply stacks duration and can be removed all at once, so would it really be that bad for PvP if they gave [Spider Venom] more applications or a shorter cooldown? We can already EASILY apply continuous ranged AoE poison and weakness through Choking Gas, so would it really change anything in PvP?

Spider venom heals 300 health and does 300 damage per hit with Leeching venoms.
In other words an extra 1500+ dmg (+ is based on scaling with Power) as a result of being 5 hits. It’s not simply about poison.