Guild Wars 2

Zinwrath.2049:

ensoriki.5789:

The threat of rallying puts pressure on the other team, to make a choice between going for a stomp, going to revive, or playing the field.
Without rallying, there are less repercussions of letting a teammate die. As it is now, you have to consider the repercussions of going for a stomp and letting your downed mate be left unprotected which can trigger a rally if he is finished before you defeat the previous. It may be beneficial to juggle between offensively pressuring someone downed, and reviving to keep them alive.

If four people are fighting 2v2 and 1 goes down on both sides. The two standing members have to decide
A) fight each other revive C) stomp/attack downed D) Flee E) a combination of the other options.

Removing rally reduces the threat level. They can stomp your teammate, but the other person will still be downed.
As it is now, both were downed and your teammate has 10% health left in downed, you may say “Shoot gotta stomp/revive now before they get a rally”. If it was changed, the pressure is diminished and you’re allowed to care “less” about your teammate than you currently do. As there isn’t a threat of this 1v1 with 1 downed and 1 downed turning into 2v1 via rally.

If anything just makes a dude more independent as a unit because I don’t have the threat of successfully supporting teammates on the same level as current.
The game doesn’t need less teamwork.

Core difference, i’ll say it again.

Ressurect takes risk thought and strategy ALWAYS.

Rally can happen accidentally, does not always require risk.

In the situation you mention, there are still choices to be made without rally. It does not become suddenly meaningless to let your teammate die. Your teammate dieng is always bad….always. Rally might make certain situations more extreme (if our teammate geting stomped will rally the enemy team). but it is always bad.

There is plenty urgency without this added layer of annoyance. If you have a player down, and they have a player down…and its you vs another guy. Simple example.

You can
A) try to kill the enemy player who isnt downed if you think your stronger than them.
B ) Try to heal your teammate if your better at healing than harming the enemy.
C ) let him stomp your ally to stomp his ally
D ) Try to interrupt him from healing his ally to get attention towards you while your ally heals himself.
E ) Interrupt the enemy from downing your ally while throwing ranged damage at his ally, forcing him to make a decision.

I could go on and on…and on. Plus each profession and spec handle this situation differently WITHOUT rally. So no, rally is just another variable that isnt fun and can happen without motive to ressurect. It doesnt limit you from options or change urgency…it just changes what those options are in the moment, but your priority stays the same…kill enemy, dont let him kill ally or self. That will always be the goal in the end.

Never said there were no repercussions but lettuce look at your own scenario
C) is basically saying “ah kitten it” and letting your teammate die, because you take out the other and just go for a 1v1. C) does happen in the rare situation that they didn’t qualify for rally.

A) currently present in rally system
B) Happens in current system…
D) Happens in current system… I call it Mr.Pistol Whip.
E) Happens in current system, only that pressure is heightened because him range shooting your ally can cause a rally. So you really don’t want that to happen, because otherwise you can just break it down to cause option C) and just not care.

The situation where you give a kitten about C) is because the 5 pt kill will mean GG.
Outside of that? Nope. I see warrior + engi. I’ve got a Ranger down. I already Know I can take the warrior on from a previous fight. So meh eat a kitten ranger cus im gonna kill this engi and then drop kick the warrior.
Current system? “I can’t just ignore this kitten warrior he’s about to stomp”.

You say it isn’t fun, but it can often be exhilarating.

“Heres a fun thought that i garantee is true. If rally was not in the game on launch. And this whole time you’ve been playing with out it or any thought of it…always knowing ressurecting always takes a risk or decision to heal your teammate. Then one day i put up a post on the forums saying “why shouldnt it just rez all your teammates who are downed in a fight when i kill someone!” it would be met (even by people advocating for rally today) by a big NO!”

Change is usually met with resistance.
We’ve all played different games.
We know this change already.
What if’s mean little.
Not to mention that rally doesn’t currently revive everyone, you have to qualify for it. While the qualifications may be too lenient. They are a reality.

Haste and frenzy are stunbreaks.

Nope.
All that matters is being statistically up-to-date.
After that anything you want is flavor not necessity.
I am not statistically up-to-date and am not loosing any sleep over it, because I can get so when I feel to and money after that point is pointless.

^ Rally isn’t necessarily “easy” because in a team fight you generally are not rallied by your own power, but your teammates.

But there are tons of abilities and strategys built around protecting your ally while ressurecting them…it then becomes a battle to stop the person doing it thus a shift in strategy. Its a healthy thing. So no…of course people would still ressurect each other, if anything it would encourage more people to.

That’s already how it is, the only thing is you’re removing the threat level of letting them stomp one of your teammates.
If it’s a 3 on 3, and the guardian goes down, and there thief goes down. They may just full well disregard their teammate, because him getting removed is less important than removing the guardian. As it is, you don’t want to ignore your teammate either because if you do and he goes down? Guardians back up. So regardless of how the composition is you want to care about your teammates not just because you get outnumbered, because you get outnumbered and bring somebody back into the game if you do not.

Times when a man is down and they get a man down. Mesmer interrupts your stomp. and Time warp stomps your guy bringing his back up. Now if you had put some effort on your homie this wouldn’t of happened. Sometimes you’ll rather revive a teammate than risk the threat of a botched stomp turning into a rally for them. That threat of rally helps keep out linearity in combat.

The threat of rallying puts pressure on the other team, to make a choice between going for a stomp, going to revive, or playing the field.
Without rallying, there are less repercussions of letting a teammate die. As it is now, you have to consider the repercussions of going for a stomp and letting your downed mate be left unprotected which can trigger a rally if he is finished before you defeat the previous. It may be beneficial to juggle between offensively pressuring someone downed, and reviving to keep them alive.

If four people are fighting 2v2 and 1 goes down on both sides. The two standing members have to decide
A) fight each other revive C) stomp/attack downed D) Flee E) a combination of the other options.

Removing rally reduces the threat level. They can stomp your teammate, but the other person will still be downed.
As it is now, both were downed and your teammate has 10% health left in downed, you may say “Shoot gotta stomp/revive now before they get a rally”. If it was changed, the pressure is diminished and you’re allowed to care “less” about your teammate than you currently do. As there isn’t a threat of this 1v1 with 1 downed and 1 downed turning into 2v1 via rally.

If anything just makes a dude more independent as a unit because I don’t have the threat of successfully supporting teammates on the same level as current.
The game doesn’t need less teamwork.

I still don’t understand why Zephyr doesn’t break stun.

There is just 2 on the GS, but they RC pretty quickly
Whirlwind attack + Rush on GS
Savage leap on Sword.
There is the Warhorn swiftness.
You can somewhat count Eviscerate on axe.
Bulls charge on utility.
Arguably Shield has Shield bash.
Banners Sprint + Inspire
Signet of Rage and Warbanner elites give swiftness.
Rampage has Dash.

Don’t die in the dungeon brah.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

ensoriki.5789:

Look at skill, says 1200/900 range. So sit 1200/900 distance back instead of sittin on the point.

Yeah, and watch helplessly as points tick for your opponents since they’re sitting pretty on the node while you pew pew at range. Because node capping isn’t the objective of conquest. Genius

Or don’t be sittin on a node by yourself trying to 1v2, 1v3 when you could’ve been pushing mid or far with someone else, and doing something “Fruitful” and using your range. Instead of chilling with a 1200 pt weapon, and unable to take significant pressure.
If you want to play fragile you realize you don’t sit in the middle of the fray and just eat damage.
Genius.

Might as well, it is a player vs player format in it’s own right, and it is something to do when you burn out and need a change of pace. I doubt everyone even knows it is in Hoelbraek. Throw some glory on it and it’s all good.
Shouldn’t take you much time to copy+paste an npc so we have something to do while we wait for Custom arena’s, more maps, and Warrior Banners.

Edit: No See below.

Pretty good for S/P and P/P as it helps to stabilize your damage overtime in exchange for Critical haste which will let you get a quick burst in.

It is called Venom sharing.
If you’re team is willing to go along with the idea. You can basically give them 8s of might that last quite a while with 60% increased might duration runes as well as life steal, and debilitating effects. If you take Thrill of the Crime, you can give them fury, swiftness and 1 stack of might as well. With Bountiful theft you may give them Vigor, and with Shadow’s Protector you can give them regeneration.

As a thief you may give Might, regeneration, Venoms, Swiftness, Vigor, Fury and of course, Stealth.

With just 10 in DA you get Might on Venoms.
With 30 in Shadow arts you may share those venoms. Since this applies to 5 allies, you’re basically sending out 40 stacks of might. Drop 30 In trickery, and you would also be giving Vigor, Fury, Swiftness, Might on Steal, every 36s or you can go into Acrobatics to increase the duration of the Might you give or delve further into DA to increase the frequency of venoms and give them an added tick.

If all else false, Drop Smokescreens/Black Powder/Shadow Refuge and give some combo fields. That either A) stealth or b) give them life steal to heal with.

What I’m trying to figure out is, if you’re fighting a lone boss when you know a heal is meant for hit volume.
Why you didn’t swap out your heal for the situation?

Im wracking my head on it, but it’s not computing. Like you knowingly limited yourself and blame the skill for you not using it when it is appropriate.
What’s it matter if your pulling 900 health total on 1 enemy. You shouldn’t be using it on one enemy, unless arguably you’ve got some caltrops underneath that kid popping up additional Malice procs.

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

DanH.5879:

let make me clear:
i do NOT agree that my whole “Shadow Arts” trait line to be useless for 4 seconds every time i come out of stealth not breaking it via attacking, reduce revealed to 1-2 seconds and MAYBE we have a deal

There are 4 traits in the shadow arts line that do not care at all about stealth.
“Whole Shadow arts trait line” is false.

Master of Deception
Slowed Pulse
Power shots
Leeching Venoms
Venomous Aura.

Whole line? Please do not lie hombre.

Master of Deception – Really good, because deception is one of our best skills.

Slowed Pulse – “Ok.”, but too long of a cooldown to be worth it.

Power Shots – Worthless, Short Bow is mostly condition damage, and its not worth 20 points to get 5% damage. Why would you invest 20 points in the stealth tree for a non-stealth weapon? The Power tree offers far more % damage and power as well.

Leeching Venoms – Worthless. (lol venoms, Little to no healing…)

Venomous Aura – Worthless. (lol venoms, lol 300 range.)

Doesn’t diminish my point in the slightest.
Venoms are significantly potent when administered correctly.
Leeching Venoms puts +325 damage on all of your attacks at base.
If you are hitting for 1000 for instance it’s basically a 33% increase on your damage, that gives you some health and may or not may be doing the same thing to your allies if you are sharing Venoms.
Venom share allows you to potentially put 8s of might on an entire party, Cause them to do 325 or more extra damage per strike (that will also heal them) as a result of Leeching Venoms, and gives them a variety of effects to use on an enemy or multiple enemies.

With S/ due to Inf strike, you also have Stun break regardless as a result of Shadow return. Meaning your essentials are covered.

But again, doesn’t change the point is that the shadow arts line is not invalidated just on a basis of traits when 5 traits are independent of stealth. Of course you’re welcome to meaninglessly argue against it.

DanH.5879:

let make me clear:
i do NOT agree that my whole “Shadow Arts” trait line to be useless for 4 seconds every time i come out of stealth not breaking it via attacking, reduce revealed to 1-2 seconds and MAYBE we have a deal

Master of Deception
Slowed Pulse
Power shots
Leeching Venoms
Venomous Aura.

Calae.1738:

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

What did i just read?

Game implements downed state – “Dumbing down the game”.
No, what downed state does is decrease the emphasis RPG’s have on revive skills. and instead globalizes it and put’s decisive elements into the involvement.

There are pts when you arrive on the point and your team mate is downed.
You can’t straight revive because you’ll be blasted to kingdom come.
I throw Shadow Refuge over him, to get him some health and at least remove the “Stomp” threat from my engi.
Now I have to deal with the two people who just downed him to begin with.
Scratch that, run into my refuge for some quick stealth after planting a shadow return pt on my way there. Press revive for a moment to get him some health then Shadow return out of the revive before I get nuked by the grenades.
Switch to bow, to dodge the nonsense flying my way while pecking. Gotta buy 10 seconds and hope he doesn’t drop dead by then. Engi’s attention shifts to me, because I can burst his kitten to kingdom come. My engi comes out of stealth, uses his grapple finish and pulls one of them off me. So just looking at their other engi. Immobilized. shortbow out of damage. Engi blasts the guy he grapples, I switch to sword, Haste, Pw him down. BP, start the stomp. Shadow step away out of engi attacks as I stomp preventing me from dying, shadow return back and dead.
I saved him, he used downed skills to buy opportunity and to keep extra damage off me through his CC.

Or without the downed system it could’ve just gone like this
“nope.jpg”.

Or when you’re at keep you kill the guardian, and get smacked by a Mesmer using Illusionary wave, then popping Time warp and/or Distortion to save the guardian before your team drops him.
That’s called teamwork…

If you’re playing HJ you won’t see it because no one cares about each other in hot-join. Too busy playing deathmatch they’ll leave you on the floor. Or so busy rolling in zerg you’re on your own when you shouldn’t be and so get forced into that 1v2 with no sign of help in sight.

Ever see rugby. Where the guy get’s tackled, goes down and passes the ball to his teammate to keep posession in their hands and keep it progressing forward?
Nah when he goes down they should just auto give the ball to the other team…
Lol wtf.
Man why do they allow lateral passes in football? I had these guys 2v1 and they passed it to a third guy, this is outrageous…

Enjoyluck.2618:

Here comes the funny part thief can burst only glass canon. Thief can never kill a decent guardian 1 vs 1 no matter how much damage you do. Engie will laugh if we try attack em they have protection if you crit 7 sec block. More condi remover then you ever will have.

After those nerfs i say r.i.p thief and play my lv 80 engie. 25 might stacks ftw.

How many of these ‘decent’ guardians are there? Most guardians die 1v1 sitting on a point in there bunker spec, calling for back up.

I don’t recall monks getting yelled at for giving people enchantments.
“How dare you put Protective spirit on me, and prevent me from getting spiked now his single skill out of 8 on that 15s recharge will apply bleeding for 6s if it hits me. Curse you Monk!”

My answer is no.

Rezz.8019:

PD/PB mesmer, monks, magebane ranger players in GW1 had way better reaction times than any of the people in GW2 do. I guess PvP here is too easy and makes peoples brain less focused.

Don’t kid yourself. Due to quickness there are near nonexistent cast times on certain skills when up which you aren’t reacting but predicting. Similar happened in gw1 under an IAS but not as quickly since IAS were not as ludicrous. Fast casted skills could be fast as well but again were better grounded.

Kneru.8014:

Learn to play a thief. The moment another thief hits me with Basilisk I shadowstep. The only issue is terrain and bugs.

Due to terrain, some times I can only shadowstep so far, which isnt very far. And due to the Basilisk bug (if you’re still stone colored when you Shadowstep, etc, you cannot dodge roll, so the inevitable Heartseeker spam or tap backstab until you lose stealth or it lands) is what gets me killed against other thieves.

Also, the average is not .3, that’s just the highest. The average is supposedly between .150 – .300 milliseconds. I’ve done a couple test online at times and gotten .2 milliseconds before. Also, the fact it shows heartseeker, unless they had Haste, that alone probably took them some time to land. Me thinks you’re just slow to react.

If they’re using haste you’ll be dead. Otherwise yes shadow step cures all.

Mobility is defense.

I’ll take em if you drop the ICD to 5/6 or 7s. They’re trash untraited.
Merge Nv with SK and make SU give them protection every 15s and its all good.

In other words just make Body shot act as shadow strike and warp you backwards with a vulnerability shot.
Then give it Shadow return. Essentially making it the reverse of Infiltrator’s Strike with single target vulnerability instead of pbaoe immobilize.
Excessive kiting controlled by Shadow return costing 2 ini.

Remove the warp from shadow strike on P/D since it’s now unnecessary.
Put burning or poison on it.

Mobility issues solved.
Condt thiefs get another toy.

Alternative? Make Body shot a ground targetted Shadowstep that turns into Shadow return and remove the warp from Shadow strike.

Hasted backstab combo is the only thing in this game that screams not right. Good lord that’s fast.

For everything else their is mastercard.

Acandis.3250:

bomber.1540:

Keyboard warriorssyndrome.

I’ve ranked upto lvl 30 in hotjoins alone. Why? Cos I play late at night in aust which is 4-7am in the US. Total dead zone where zero tourneys would pop. Does that mean I have no right to an opinion? kitten off, u have no idea

Honestly, it’s ANet’s fault for implemention hotjoins in the first place. If hotjoins weren’t around the hundreds of people that play hotjoins would be in tournaments and they would pop a lot of frequently.

If Custom Arena’s existed, people would play CA.
Tournaments aren’t for everyone.

vespers.1759:

ensoriki.5789:

vespers.1759:

huehuehue cry thieves cry! hopefully there’ll be a few more nerfs coming after this.

i’d love to see the tears if thieves were rendered as trashy as rangers, necros and engis but alas i don’t think it’ll happen. i’ll just content myself with the bitter tears of reduced OPness.

You know how I know you need to play more?

nope, but i’d love to see you try to defend thieves. 10 points if it isn’t a L2P comment or a comment about how one must play a thief to know thief.

Considers rangers, and engi’s trashy. Engi’s are quite strong in WvW and Spvp.
Ranger’s are wreckers in spvp, ow-pve, and will be improving in fractals in 9 days.
No but they’re trashy lol wot. Mind boggling the things people say.

Defend what? This changes means jack diddly and was gladly welcomed.
It’s only funny how kitten you are from your clear personal dislike for a profession that you scream for nerfs without shame only highlighting your inability to play. Or in other words, so long as your personal ego is no longer injured you wouldn’t care what happened to the state of the profession.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

I note that a lot of people supportive of this possible change play Thieves and/or Warriors.

As a Guardian, if I use a Mace, Greatsword or Hammer, my auto-attack will essentially give you Regen, Might or Protection, or give you a damage boost. A lot of my other attacks, and most of my utilities, will do the same, some more than others. Essentially all of my buffs, which are the centrepiece of the Class, will be giving me a debuff and/or giving you a buff. And you wonder why Guardians are concerned?

What will be the point of some of those Boons anyway? Using Regen or Protection would be counter-productive.

As already stated, there are ways to remove/steal buffs already in game. If you want to steal Boons, then play a Class/build and/or use a weapon that allows you to do it. If it’s not your preferred Class/build/weapon then tough luck. No Class/build should ever go without some form of counter and bunkers already have a counter in their lower damage output and the ability of other, specific, builds to remove their Boons. When Thieves or Warriors have trouble with bunker builds it is called balance. What I am seeing here is players saying “I can annihilate every build for every class except for a handful of builds that stack Boons… I want to be able to destroy every build with impunity.” That is the epitome of bad game design.

With that said, if any Class should be a candidate for something like this it shoud be Ranger or Engi, not Thief or Warrior.

That’s not how it worked in gw1. Assuming they take from their predecessor, not at all.
Some skills had additional effects if a person was under a boon, the boon really wasn’t a debuff. Assuming sanity, if warriors got this it would be on there weapon skills or physical utility skills. In exchange for using 1 skill you’d get X effect if they were under a boon. In other words the skill scales better than other skills in the presence of a boon, a boon doesn’t become a debuff at all.

In the case of thieves which come from the sin.
Sins didn’t get additional effects against enchantments.
They straight out removed them.

These skills did not make the monk useless. Which is the predecessor of the Guardian.

titaniumm.2983:

like i said,
for all ppl complain about d/d bunker ele, tell me another viable build, prefer with staff,
and i will more than happy to give up with the 0/10/0/30/30 build..

S/D ele.
That was fast. Do I get a prize

Then there’s a whole bunch of whining. I get ele’s could use some improvements in other places but calm it down. Build diversity is wonky basically everywhere.

Man you guys cry too much. Look at skill, says 1200/900 range. So sit 1200/900 distance back instead of sittin on the point. No wait nvm go GC in melee range as the squishiest profession in game with limited evasion for that roll and complain it’s hard.
Well that sounds wise.
The current state of the game can pretty much let you run anything in general tpvp, anything, because there’s what 7 teams in the game on NA give or take a couple?
You could slap 4 conjures on your bar, go full GC, and get consecutive kills in current tpvp. That’s not a brag, it’s just pointing out where the game is at right now. The amount of competitive teams is little, with a small amount of team work you can basically run anything. So if you’re sad via lack of builds, don’t worry there isn’t enough pressure in the meta right now to actually literally force you to play anything.

Even if not it’s not like you lose anything of worth, especially if you only solo que.
/realitycheck.

but again.
S/D ele.
Check and mate.

hharry.1967:

Shar.3402:

I love how people say “bunker ele is easier to play then backstab thief!”
Of course it’s easier to stay alive with a bunker than with a glass cannon, but have you ever tried playing with a zerker amulet full glass cannon elementalist? yeah, you live 3 seconds (mist form), and then YOU’RE DEAD. And you have no stealth or shortbow evade or distortion or blurred frenzy or a kittenING STUN BREAK ON YOUR WEAPONSET.
So, if you want to compare a glass cannon, do it with another glass cannon, instead of comparing apples to melons
thank you.

Thats true, see ‘semi bunker’ condition thieves, they barely die, a lot of mobility, stealth and evades, and also some good damage output to those classes that cant remove conditions like a mfker (eles or rangers), yet no one complains they are op.
Necros have a similar spec to the above, yet everyone is buthurt about eles going away with RTL im sure thats the main problem.

Someone mention condi thieves?
!http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltw9xfJCHs1qafrh6.gif!
I take a ranger running double Bears more serious.
A ranger running 2 pigs is more freighting. Dat dere knockdown.

Ele’s going away with the RTL ain’t really an issue to me, I just find it funny that an Ele hits RTL, and as the Mobility profession I have to pop 2-3 skills depending on build to catch him if he just pops RTL, let alone lightning flash. Was dropping this ele at Alter the other day before we changed to forest of garbage. Dude hits RTL, To gtfo. You know what kind of balls you need to have to try to outrun a thief? The arrogance on this kid. Had to pop inf strike, Shadowstep and then hit with Mug to drop him as he started his heal to the floor. Mind you I’d naturally assume it worse for the D/ builds when there’s plenty of reasons for Shadowshot not to of worked in that situation, in which case he’d of had to rely on SS + Mug which would’ve flopped since Mug steal would’ve failed on distance.

Too bad it wasn’t really arrogance since after I dropped him mist formed into the water hole. Lol wot? You know what happened to me one time I tried to warp by that hole? I got sent into the floor, before the game decided to make me fall through the floor and died nigh instantly as a result of fall damage. Ain’t that a kitten. Oh well at least Shadow return brought me right back to alter to cap (inb4nerf). Bunker build mind you.

No hate though it’s just straight out funny to pop 3 mobility skills in succession to catch a dude who was next to you a moment ago as a thief :p.

Issues just the water skills.

No.
Nein
Nah.
Now if it removed a condition im down with that.

Were not gonna take it. No were not gonna take it. Were not gonna take it….anymooooooooorrrreeeee.

They said dey wurkin on d fix.

^ amazing. You killed people in hot join. Insanity.

Sell dyes. Made 6 gold from a dye I got. Could that to gems if I didn’t pay for my things in cash.

Thieves will probably just strip them. That’s what sins did.
Warriors had things like bleed if they have an enchant or something like that or enchanted foes couldn’t block this hit.
Or something like that I can’t recall what skills like Magehunter smash did..

I think it’s good, give wars some finesse, make thieves better rounded.

Bonus against boons won’t diminish the significance of boons, generally you’ll rather have protection that not…

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

MakeitNeil.4561:

It is really annoying when the pistol phantasm, the berserker, the shatters, the necros chains, the ranger’s chains, and the Thif pistol chains hit me in stealth. When I’m on my mesmer and thief, it feels like I am always getting hit by chains in stealth. Not only is hitting people in stealth unrealistic, IT IS AN ANNOYING BUG AND I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE COMPLAINING! Especially for mesmers and thieves, this bug is annoying. We have no armor and when we are still hit in our refuge state (stealth) it ticks us off. GW2 needs to fix this bug. Chains do enough damage already. Stealthing during a chain should INTERRUPT them.

-Durzo Blint

Durzo blint…funny.

Getting hit by an aoe (shatter) ain’t no bug lol.
Only one annoying here is duelist since it fires off that 7k shot every 4-6s like kitten.

7k? really… I would love to see these numbers… Any time I use it its like 4-5k max… any time I die to “illusionary unload” same thing… 7k sounds like a huge exaggeration. And thieves can spam the same skill with the same or higher numbers2-3 times in a row.

While your experience is noted, it’s irrelevant.
I have 14k health.
A duelist can drop me to 7, by itself. If you’re not doing 7k that’s your own issue to deal with.

Could be your dealing with a phantasm army type build (one of those guys that never shatters.) 3. Traits Empowered illusions, Phantasmal Fury, and Phantasmal Strength… If this is the case then the person either A. doesn’t have deceptive evasion OR, Doesn’t have illusionary persona… So there is your weakness in this build… And maybe another reason they do that much damage is mmm are you a GC? If so there you go. Damage not only scales off the attackers power but off of the victims armor/toughness.

And currently the combo finisher is a bug… (I hope) I can agree with you there that is very OP… But once again that Mesmer would have to have VERY SPECIFIC traits to deal out that damage with the duelist… And as you said with the duelist not hitting for 7k and that’s my issue… I return with if a duelist is dropping you to half your health.. that is also your own issue.

annoying =/= insurmountable. I don’t need a dialogue on a Mesmer, it hardly takes a minute to figure out a build.
You can return with whatever you want I just spoke what is reality.
Naturally given that you’ve been corrected, there isn’t need to go further.

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

MakeitNeil.4561:

It is really annoying when the pistol phantasm, the berserker, the shatters, the necros chains, the ranger’s chains, and the Thif pistol chains hit me in stealth. When I’m on my mesmer and thief, it feels like I am always getting hit by chains in stealth. Not only is hitting people in stealth unrealistic, IT IS AN ANNOYING BUG AND I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE COMPLAINING! Especially for mesmers and thieves, this bug is annoying. We have no armor and when we are still hit in our refuge state (stealth) it ticks us off. GW2 needs to fix this bug. Chains do enough damage already. Stealthing during a chain should INTERRUPT them.

-Durzo Blint

Durzo blint…funny.

Getting hit by an aoe (shatter) ain’t no bug lol.
Only one annoying here is duelist since it fires off that 7k shot every 4-6s like kitten.

7k? really… I would love to see these numbers… Any time I use it its like 4-5k max… any time I die to “illusionary unload” same thing… 7k sounds like a huge exaggeration. And thieves can spam the same skill with the same or higher numbers2-3 times in a row.

While your experience is noted, it’s irrelevant.
I have 14k health.
A duelist can drop me to 7k, by itself. If you cannot hit 7k that’s your own issue to deal with. Being dropped to 7 by itself isn’t a big deal, I’m glass cannon, comes with the territory. Of course being a passive set-n-forget skill that hits for that much is significantly more irksome. Note ranger pets can also hit those numbers (if they want them to) but have a melee focus and the complications that nature inherently posseses. Naturally isn’t no issue if I abuse the hell out of Inf strike to break LoS, but since it and other channeled attacks in general 1) Don’t end on stealth 2) have shot animations longer than an actual dodge roll and 3) will even auto correct themself if you rapidly change direction through mobility (shadowsteps/leaps). The real action is kill it or get the hell out of range. This is again, relatively legitimate being glass cannon, a random CB sneeze will blow it apart assuming a lack of Soi or a fortunate critical.
Otherwise it itself is more irksome than anything a Mesmer does given the chance to exist. Disregarding the bleeding it can also apply or that it is currently bugged so that all of it’s shots are 100% combo finisher’s when traited (or perhaps it is intentional) and can put up 8 stacks of confusion through Chaos Storm, on top of it’s bleed while hitting that 7k if given a chance to fully prob. Naturally I’ll assume the Mesmer himself is braindead and does nothing himself so that dodging the duelist and he himself is the sole threat. Lol wot. Outside of that fighting Mesmer’s is quite fun, and I’d almost feel bad for abusing the hell out of LoS to break their AI and obstruct their attacks, and phantasm bullets.

Of course if you think I’m embellishing reality for some reason no one but yourself can imagine. This is easily dealt with. If you think the damage is fine itself, that’s a view I’d allow you to have, but if you’re questioning my honesty, my friend, you can be promptly silenced.

Darnis.4056:

All I read was ’Buff thieves to levels never yet imagined"

When I came to this game I mained a thief, and I thought to myself, wow.. stealth is really well done in this game, you can’t be unstealthed by aoe, but you still take damage from sword swings!( It took WoW years before they got this)

Do this , and welcome a new age of 3 thief teams.

Hmm, It’s just like fighting on henge with inf strike, but everywhere instead.

^ The downed state is an extension of health.
To be frank no one is supposed to beat two people in reality. 2v1 is inherently a disadvantage, winning it is primarily about the other two making significant mistakes, build wars or being vastly inferior.
Downed state interrupts can be stopped via stability. Mesmer warp can be timed to kill upon reapparance. Thieves you dodge/warp to. Eles you dps outright or double tap. In terms of the other person? You kill them while they’re rezzing or you take that opportunity to get out of a bad situation.

I also feel Search and Rescue should be better. Doesn’t heal enough.

No underestimation, Snares just mean little to me.

Pvp browser – 8v8.
Go join zerg. Kill each other disregarding points, randomly sorted.
Congrats RA.

kostbabis.8791:

milo.6942:

cleansing fire says hi

dude you did it again :P
You force certain utilities into players..Like mist form wasnt already enough!

That isn’t forcing a utility on you in actuality.

Not to disregard your point of it perhaps being too crippling in general, but it’s not forcing a utility on you at all.
For instance you can take Lightning Flash for enhanced mobility that is not effected by slows in any form. Whether RTL is reduced or not, you would have LF to help in an escape. Or you’d hit CW , air attunement -> Rtl. Or sure you could take cleansing Fire. Or you Dgaf you take signet of water. Bottom line choice isn’t forced upon you.
Though it may be a poor change to make.

You don’t make a build disregarding your utilities in relation to your needs.
Otherwise thieves would roll 3/4 signets all day to smack things with 15+ power because they can full disregard, the idea of threats.

Spirit buff is eventually coming Karl’s comment on ranger utility defense suggests it.
Banner change could….could…be interesting…because they aren’t like spirits.
Banner boosts are not strippable, or destroyable, you can’t remove em. It’s a moveable totem that guarantees boosts in it’s area, where Spirits are destroyable temporary sources of boosts, that can be cleansed or stripped except for Spirit of frost.

Spirits will come.

Okamakiri.8746:

Stiv.1820:

Stealth will be hardly nerfed. People are overreacting.

They talked about buffs they were looking at:

More mobility
A trait/mechanic to counter boon heavy targets

They also talked about nerfing our raw damage, and the “buffs” they talked about would be to allow us to still deal with bunker builds after the damage nerfs, without the need for our supposed current burst potential. I heard no mention of buffing our survivability. What they said in that video didn’t sound good for us at all.

Hmm.
Well 1 after Nero mentioned condi thieves. They said they think they should throw poison or burning somewhere on the bar potentially so that condi thieves aren’t my favourite joke.

“If we put in a lot of traits that let you punish boons, we can bring down the spike damage…it can be more of a spec that can hang with people in fights, which is what the thief really needs” More or less (hard to get every single world). Can check at 1:01:13 or so for that. That in line with increasing thief mobility (which is a significant portion of our defense) is an increase to our survivalbility. Unless we don’t count Infiltrator’s arrow and Shadow return as skills that aid our survivalbility. That’s also a significant reason why P/P is meh. It’s a duck, a turret.

^^What you’re saying makes Shadow refuge end prematurely unless they deliberately plan to limit it.

Calae.1738:

kostbabis.8791:

milo.6942:

it turns out that there exists a bunker build for eles that is quite good. they are not the poor helpless low hp class with no defense.

it’s madness to give the ele a 1200 gap closer that’s immune to slows. TWELVEHUNDRED. “poor defenseless eles need a way to reset fights.” right.

make rtl affected by slows. how is this still in the game?? we’ll see how the stealth nerf works out, but i have a feeling it won’t be enough.

see thats why you arent a game developer..You have something in your mind and think only how to bring it down to what you think is fair no matter the cost..
Just because there is ONE bruiser build that you think its too strong that doesnt mean we should nerf whatever keeps remotely viable all other specs..
Get it on your head..Rtl affects everything.Healing power and its scaling affects mostly what you hate of..
But sure keep going

In short if milo was in charge eles would be even more pigeonholed into heavy bunker builds only this time they would just be less effective.

Exactly.

If Elementalist mobility is nerfed; people would have no choice but to spec into bunker. While other classes who have high base health and armor would just select traits that boosts damage output.

Not quite.
To play both sides.
If Rtl is affected by slows, it just means when crippled and chilled RTL isn’t very efficient. This doesn’t really mean anything at all, if you are not under those conditions.
There are a couple utility based condition removals as well as cleansing wave and possibly ether renewal if you are worried about not being able to make a clean escape.
That makes it harder to escape, it does not remove the possibility.

On the other hand since Ele’s put a lot of faith in that one ability, having to shift your focus to keeping yourself cleansed for that one aspect, may be significantly detrimental in the long run of their play.

Ele should get quite a few buffs.
The bunker aspect should be toned down. I didn’t think the OP’s options captured that idea of balancing it out on both sides of the scale to bring it to a stable level.
Boon removal could certainly see a greater abundance, but an Ele or guardian shouldn’t be straight out hard-countered as a profession as soon as someone says “im bringing boon removal” that would be terrible.

^There is no need to make any defense adjustments.

Put Cleansing wave to 1.5s cast time.

Calae.1738:

A) Do you think the Elementalist should be gutted in order to avoid it from being able to do everything well?

B) Do you think the developers should use the Elementalist as a template for all other professions?

C) Do you think the developers should create abilities on other professions that counters the Elementalist?

Why?

Can I generally disagree with all 3?