Guild Wars 2

Logos.1306:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I hope the game system will be able to accept the added load and not when we have mounts in a map had the amount of mounts removed in players, and maps fail due to mount-“love” We do NOT need mounts in old maps, cause we have a Waypoint system…

what If I like mounts for fun and immersion and I dont care about fast travel? Why do you think you know what all players want? Why mount haters act like you are the only true players?
its like saying we dont need new armors because we have outfit system. Waypoints have nothing to do here.

Of course fast travel aka waypoints is really important to the game. What will happen if, in core maps for example, you decide to use your mount and you can’t get fast enough to a part of the map where an event spawn, because by the time you get there all the other players will be done with event/boss ? Mounts and immersion as you claim is only really relevant in games where traditional quests are implemented. I am not against mounts per se personally but its addition has to be supported by the game design of maps. And core tyria was not designed with mounts in mind in the first place.

I hope that HoT maps don’t get the Orr treatment. There is no fun in watching everyone spamming their aoes with no sense of achievement, logic nor no sense of danger whatsoever while you just watch the mobs just get insta down. LS3 maps provide this sort of gameplay already, there is no need for more of that.

Oh another one…..sigh……I personally don’t want more resources spent on raids. I play the game based on the notion that I wouldn’t need to get into high end pve content to be relevant in the game. Not that the game should be made under the notion that everything should be accessible to everyone no matter their interest and/or skill, which would become a really boring game imo. Furthermore, I don’t want that Anet to open that pandora box which would force them to balance rewards for each tier and also force them to reconsider skill balance in an even harder way, if they are already struggling very hard as of now. If the players really want to experience tiered difficulty, they should really get into fractals.

Hmm I don’t think that is how it works. I mean if you know that you don’t stand a chance against a class, why would you fight it in the first place ? If the guardian is afk holding a node, then he will become a dead weight for his team. The point is not to absolutely gain and hold all three points at all time. It would be far better to make sure that you hold and defend the nodes that your team own or have one node and keep contested/decap others.

Jnaathra.6549:

I found this previous thread and it doesn’t look like anyone “concerns” were ever addressed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/Caudecus-Not-everyone-is-a-Guardian/first

First off. I am a casual player. I do not and will never raid.

I came back to this game after the recent HOTS sale. I have leveled both a Ranger and a Revenant through the newer content. Getting past this boss with the Ranger was extremely hard and I was downed several times, but the Revenant was a completely different and miserable story. By the time I limped out of there I had been smashed into the ground more time than I care to count.

A combination of poor design and me not playing the perfect meta build made this a nightmare. I am echoing what other players said in the previous thread, but since you apparently did not listen I think it needs to be repeated.

1. This room is entirely to small. I am playing a Norn who is at the maximum height. If I can not see what is going on, then how can I possibly react to it? Your camera is tight spaces is TERRIBLE.

2. The small space also gives a double wammy to my particular skill selection. Which includes Vengeful Hammers. Anytime I was forced against the walls or had to move against them to avoid the countless AOE attacks, the ability was automatically deactivated.

3. The CC feels entirely to strong. One mistake can easily result in 10+ seconds of being pinged all over the room. The Jade Bow round adds even more CC to the mix and its spawn time is horrible. You get both of these kittens at the same time.

General observations and complaints.

1. All the “heroic” story NPCs in this game are idiots. If I am going to be traveling with them for countless hours, grow them a brain and design some better AI. The only thing they have been good for is picking me up off the ground. Mind you not while I am downed, but only after I am dead.

2. I had MUCH more fun with the final bosses of HOTS and your most recent chapter. Both had interesting mechanics and plenty of room to fight. I felt like I was on my toes, but not completely overwhelmed.

Have you got the ancient magics mastery line ?

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.

I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…

Yeah kinda because vets would have moved on to the next profitable zones released, but only if it was the same as core tyria. Ofc it is only an opinion.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.

I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…

Didn’t ArenaNet kinda tell us they didn’t want the Vets in core when they killed the Champ Trains?

If memory serves me correctly folks were whining about the trains (Vocal Minority) so they killed it. Seems like the maps started losing population shortly afterwards.

Hmm if you take a look at our current situation, we now have bloodstone crazed foes, champion and legendary bandits and leyline events appearing. So yes I still think devs want vets to go in the core levelling zones.

Djinn.9245:

flog.3485:

The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.

And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.

Halandir.3609:

flog.3485:

There is something I personally do not understand about your view. How is grinding content in HoT maps anymore different than grinding content in core maps to lvl up a character ?

I did not consider it “grind” in core. I felt I had freedom in the sense that if one area started to feel boring or even annoying, I could always adventure on in a different region/area. Sure there was a level requirement to continue my personal story but I had a multitude of options to gain those levels.
I only did dragon events on occasion when I bumped into them. The need for timer-sites and “educating” myself with youtube videos to play a game never appealed to me.
In core I could have fun without feeling forced to do that. I wasn’t “effective” but that was never my motivation anyway.

HoT changed all of that for me. I found it hard just to wander about and explore the views without seeing red lines that prompted me to dodge instead of enjoying the view.
I needed specific masteries to get to certain places and those masteries were locked to a few (to me, annoying) maps. To spend my mastery points I had to spend even more time in those same limited, annoying maps. Combine that with timed events and the need to taxi to the right zerg – THAT felt like grinding.

It’s fine that some people like that. But it’s not what motivates me in a recreational game. If it was, I would have been playing one of the many games that have been doing it since launch!

Thx for explaining you view. I can’t agree with your perception of things, though. In the end I just think it is only matter of having 4 maps only at release of HoT vs having 24 maps for release of the core game. One another to consider however: obviously they didn’t want to create a situation where the playerbase would have been split between those who have HoT and thus spend their only time in HoT after having played core maps ad nauseam and the other half of players who stay in core game because they didn’t purchase the expansion. My guess is they purposefully made it long to acquire things in HoT so that players would always be encouraged to play in core game other than the obvious core masteries to gain. As much as I like and enjoy the addition of HoT, it would not have been healthy to only play HoT meta events, I always played the game ever since HoT release by alternating between core events and HoT events. The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.

Halandir.3609:

Djinn.9245:

What most people who defend HoT maps think is that if you’re not there to do the Meta, you’re doing it wrong. Of course they think that everything besides the Meta is solo-able also, so you won’t get much sympathy if you’re trying to find people to do non-Meta stuff.
…

Pretty much sums up my HoT experience.
With HoT I felt the games direction changed from a utopic “Play your way” to a much more regular “Play this way or get out of the way.”

Grinding “content” that annoys me for hours to have fun is simply to yesterdecade for me.
A lot of people seem to like the change which is fine – They could though, have found the exact same style/focus in so many other games!

There is something I personally do not understand about your view. How is grinding content in HoT maps anymore different than grinding content in core maps to lvl up a character ?

Ario.8964:

We said we wanted the randomness of sigils out, you did it
We said we wanted reduced power creep, you did it (Still more to go but this is a solid first step)
That’s good stuff. So thank you anet for listening to the players and incorporating their ideas and complaints into your patches.

That being said, there’s some stuff that I’d like to address:
Guard didn’t need more reveal. They already hardcounter thieves, they didn’t need it. If you want more reveal in the game put it on something like necro that can benefit in matchups from it and help it to lessen the gap between the classes (Yes counters need to exist but hardcounters are awful)
There appear to be concerns with some of the interrupt sigs (I haven’t experienced it yet so it may just be a bunch of noobs that can’t cover skills properly) and how they interact with headshot and thief in general.
There is still a ton of powercreep in skills (Damage values, too much done on one skill, etc.) that needs to be fixed but it takes time and I get that. Huge thing is going to be as you reduce power damage and that aspect you also need to touch condis to make sure the damage types are balanced with eachother so one isn’t fully dominant.
Passives are still ridiculous in this game and are still carrying a ton of builds/players. A reduction in their presence/effect would be greatly appreciated.

So once again, thank you for addressing some of our concerns and we hope you continue to address our other concerns in the future.

Fun fact: necro have access to tether skilll that will apply reveal in DS like guardians

We need these garbage eaters for useless runes and sigils (one of each).

Jasonbdj.4021:

VG training group are mainly only ones that appears….as I said, I manage to get 3il.

Great idea, am sure people would join me who has lack of experience now for a no chance of successful run.

Did I not mention that i can not meet guilds usual RAID time? I’ve join a few to see it’s nearly impossible with my job. Unless I learn another language, chanage my sleeping patten and completely ignore real life so I could join Guild RAID at a different time zone…. or could just leave my good pay job that pays for the living cost so I can get into guild’s standard RAID time.

Dont judge without know clearly on other people situation (and not clearly reading the first post)…

Not asking for rewards, a easy hand-outs. Asking a chance to experience each wing and then maybe start my own group knowing each sector.

Hey I am not judging you. All I did was providing my own personal story of how I entered a raid instance.

PopeUrban.2578:

flog.3485:

PopeUrban.2578:

flog.3485:

In term of progression, I think that a system more similar to Guild Wars would a good addition. We could for example have utility skills tied to a mastery added (only in PvE) so that the higher we push the mastery, the more powerful that utility skill becomes.

Please no.

The title skills in EOTN literally broke the game in several ways, and the only reason they were implemented in the first place was because of the dead end balance quagmire GW1’s skill design eventually created.

Consumables and literally grinding for skills explicitly broke the game and trivialized a lot of its content because Arenanet decided to pivot to advertising GW2.

On top of that, Mastries already approximate the actual good parts of that system. Rank up a progression track, get some benefits in its respective areas.

Elite specs already do a good job of approximating the style of nonlinear character progression that GW1 used without creating the eventual balancing problems that GW1 had.

Stuff like heroes and title skills were horrible additions to GW1 and we don’t need to emulate them in GW2, as they were hasty and ill considered additions that took away complexity and community from the game and replaced them with ‘grind more to trivialize content’

We don’t need to emulate the worst features of GW1. We don’t need some endless power creep or more focus on NPCs playing the game against other NPCs while the players watch and refuse to group up because its less efficient.

You raised some pretty reasonable concerns that I did not think about. I guess I was feeling a bit nostalgic about it since what you call “emulating the worst features of GW1” is something that was already implemented when I started playing it and so I did not see the game become worse from your POV.

To be fair, I don’t think EVERYTHING was bad. Title grinds were actually lots of fun from the lens of the shrine buffs (where you got the random buffs that worked like an enhanced version of morale) and the way night fall (Junundu) and EOTN (Siege Destroyers) approached the concept of mounts was really cool. Individually the PVE skills where good additions to the game, the problem was really that they replaced “real” skills and invalidated a lot of considerations players would usually have to make about the game.

As far as heroes, I liked what they did for narrative (Recruit a party like a single player RPG) but their ability to be as good or better than humans combined with the number you could bring shot the community in the foot.

That said Heroes NOW in GW1 are solid system and make sense in a game with the low population you’d expect from a game that has been placed in maintenance mode, but at the time allowing 2 players to fill out a party of 8 in a game balanced primarily around doing stuff in parties of 8 felt like a mistake, and I saw a serious downturn in PUGs and general community opinion of players in a lot of content. Heroes would have made sense as an EOTN addition, as the team knew this would be the last expansion and thus they needed to “future proof” the game against lower population. At the release of nightfall though, it felt like a mistake to me. I always felt that henchmen were supposed to kind of suck compared to a player to incentivize players to actually group up.

Still your raised arguments made me suddenly realize that the only reputation titles that I dared to max out on one character only were the order of sunspear and the order of whisper. As for heroes…..well there is no way it is gonna fit into GW2 imo.

Jasonbdj.4021:

If anet doesn’t do something RAID will die off.

Current raiders will get bored and the high requirements will grow puts people off learning RAID like myself as it is not easy to find a group.

Hard to find a raiding guild as the raiding time usually is when I am at work. Plugging is extremely hard as the req usually kill prove or 100il+. I have only manage to get 3il…

When you do get a group people get treated like kitten, instant kick because someone had toughness on a training group (felt sorry and explained only lures/tanks are supposed to have it only).

If you have not master the full RAIDS and dont have much free time it is nearly quite impossible to get into it.

Not everyone like me lerns by watching YouTube, only by doing. RAID needs to be new raider friendly with easy/training mode or else anet hard work slowly die off.

I fail to see how hard it is to get into it…..Today a guy in my guild was randomly advertising training in VG. I joined. It was my first time ever entering a raid instance though I did know a little about the fight with some twitch streams that I randomly watched in the past. I did not have the optimal set-up nor the optimal food though it was ok according to the party leader that invited me. In three tries (I did not have more time personally and I felt like I was penalizing my team for not having the right stats as mesmer), we got VG down to 56%. Is it just pure luck ?

PopeUrban.2578:

flog.3485:

In term of progression, I think that a system more similar to Guild Wars would a good addition. We could for example have utility skills tied to a mastery added (only in PvE) so that the higher we push the mastery, the more powerful that utility skill becomes.

Please no.

The title skills in EOTN literally broke the game in several ways, and the only reason they were implemented in the first place was because of the dead end balance quagmire GW1’s skill design eventually created.

Consumables and literally grinding for skills explicitly broke the game and trivialized a lot of its content because Arenanet decided to pivot to advertising GW2.

On top of that, Mastries already approximate the actual good parts of that system. Rank up a progression track, get some benefits in its respective areas.

Elite specs already do a good job of approximating the style of nonlinear character progression that GW1 used without creating the eventual balancing problems that GW1 had.

Stuff like heroes and title skills were horrible additions to GW1 and we don’t need to emulate them in GW2, as they were hasty and ill considered additions that took away complexity and community from the game and replaced them with ‘grind more to trivialize content’

We don’t need to emulate the worst features of GW1. We don’t need some endless power creep or more focus on NPCs playing the game against other NPCs while the players watch and refuse to group up because its less efficient.

You raised some pretty reasonable concerns that I did not think about. I guess I was feeling a bit nostalgic about it since what you call “emulating the worst features of GW1” is something that was already implemented when I started playing it and so I did not see the game become worse from your POV.

Curunen.8729:

Some speculations and brainstorming:

If all illusions are phantasms and we only get mainhand axe (ie, no offhand axe), does that mean Axe will have a skill(s) creating phantasms on the mainhand? Would certainly make sense.

Will all phantasms in that case be made to look like the player (so no pink ghostly effect) if the intention is to make them more difficult to distinguish?

If new F skills are to work with old shatter traits in pretty much every single trait line, could they become directed phantasm attacks instead but keep similar properties to what they are now, like ranger pet F2 for each function skill? That way all the other shatter traits will work as they could become enhancements of directed phantasm attacks?
ie F1 orders all phantasms to burst direct damage on a target, F2 condis, F3 to daze… F4 doesn’t quite fit so could be something completely different.

I take it gameplay will be around maintaining three phantasms at all times and manipulating them strategically – so not like the old autopilot phantasm builds but instead requiring us to actively manage them to succeed? If so, how could this be made functional in say large scale wvw?

So in this case could Chrono remain the go-to Shatter elite spec and Mirage become the go-to Phantasm elite spec,

Will we get a choice of dodge modifications similar to Daredevil, or will all our phantasms perform the same dodge effect (perhaps blur without movement) when we dodge?

Crucially will the hp bar showing things like buffs and food be copied onto all phantasms to keep up the ruse, otherwise the whole deception would be useless.

Ah kitten, got to wait for the answers! Hopefully we’ll get more info in August once Episode 6 has finished.

Hmmm I don’t think we are gonna get a phantasm for axe. I am pretty sure they are gonna stick to the original concept: one clone and one phantasm per weapons wielded at the same time. However let’s go wild, maybe the next elite specs could transform a clone into a phantasm (or at least give the illusion of it) and by doing so we could gain various offensive advantages for our personal dps on top of the damages from the phantasm. If we have many phantasms as illusions, we could be maybe combine these illusions into a more powerful one that would copy our boons and/or our movements like you suggested ?

Dashingsteel.3410:

The idea of an expansion is change(new lands, new stories, new encounters, new armors and weapons, new races, etc…….. These things keep the game from stagnating

I am just not in favor of reworking the game into something else(majority flat map game turned into majority vertical map game in expansion, influence based guild turned into mat and gold sink based guild system, etc.)

I was looking for a more content oriented expansion than a game rework expansion

That is the problem I would say personally. You expected a content oriented expansion while they announced it would be a feature oriented expansion. You can blame all you want vertical nature of the map, the fact is it needed to justify the new systems (a.k.a masteries) that were brought with the expansion.

What you propose is a neat idea all around but yo propose is far beyond the scope of what Anet devs can achieve in terms of balance imo. You are only lvl 60 but what you propose is already being implemented in the game with the elite specs that you unlock in HoT (warrior are given torch to become berzerker, mesmers are given shields and wells to become chronomesmer… etc)

Personally I would go sword/focus and greatsword in berserker. And for your traitlines, domi/dueling/inspiration. You can trait your focus to reflect projectiles (which can be quite handy with lower cooldowns along with pulls) and inspiration utility skills improved in grandmaster trait to have another source of reflection with longer duration and on demand superspeed.

In term of progression, I think that a system more similar to Guild Wars would a good addition. We could for example have utility skills tied to a mastery added (only in PvE) so that the higher we push the mastery, the more powerful that utility skill becomes.

Robert Williams.4872:

Who the kitten would want to grind for 2 weeks to duel, especially a new player? (To whom might benefit most from this suggestion)

Why would a new player get to duel someone if the game he started playing has never advertised dueling in the first place ? If a player wants to mainly duel, he should play games that advertise this sort of feature.

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

It is not OP it it lasts only for a few seconds and if you can’t spam it and proc it passively. I mainly thought it would be good for the game to add a new effect into the game that deals with the huge amount of of boons that all classes can benefit of. It could be available only as a grandmaster trait or an elite skill. Maybe boon generation by foes in PvE could be a new mechanic that the new elite specs would deal with just as HoT made breakbar and how to break it relevant in the game.

About PvP and WvW: negate the damage reduction of protection (or resistance) and one shot elementalist by shatter (or let peoples die to condi) could be funny only for the mesmer, many classes rely on boons to survive. You want to ignore stability and protection with mantra shatter? Maybe the boons negation can last few seconds but the target will die istantly.

About PvE: boons generation could maybe help necro, but looking at the current necro’s meta build with their scepter AA chain, Nightfall and our sword’s AA chain the PvE boons are near istantly removed, so no gain locking it.

I guess you are right about that. I did not take into account the fact some classes heavily relied on boons to survive.

Faaris.8013:

flog.3485:

And what happens if people that decide to duel in open world takes up place, scale up events and associated world boss to th point which other people who want to join a map are denied the access ?

Well, I guess the same that happens now. You can already grief by scaling up events and filling up maps with a bunch of players. As far as I know, this doesn’t happen. You can also lure mobs to afk characters, haven’t seen that done in this game yet.

Also, I don’t see how a one on one can scale up an event more than dead characters that don’t port to a waypoint.

But that it the thing: these players actively participate and contribute to the success, whether or not they are dead or not. And If these afk players are already there on map, you don’t want more of it if you add another game mode on top of the very cooperative nature of PvE.

Faaris.8013:

Don’t know Nick Lentz, I played such a system in another MMO and it worked quite well. Even if we are all on the same side in general, conflicts between people still arise, and in a world full of violence, duelling would not be a weird choice to resolve them.

I don’t really have massive group-PvP in mind (go to WvW for that), but rather one on ones, or with few people involved.

You would choose when you are willing to PvP on the fly. Those who don’t care would not be affected at all, and those who wanna try PvP can choose to do so without leaving their environment.

In the current system, PvP is basically another world than PvE. I didn’t bother with PvP in this game yet, although I loved it in other games. I just don’t like doing PvP in arenas.

This idea would only work well if its implementation goes hand in hand with an easier way to switch builds. You need to set up your character differently, depending on the way you play, PvP or PvE. If you start PvP with your PvE build, you are in for a bad time. I really don’t get why there is no way to set up traits and save them under a number/name in the Heroe Panel. Then, when you fight a specific boss, you just click the number/name of the setup you chose for boss fights. I’m pretty sure the majority of players does not experience the diversity different builds provide, because they never change their character’s traits. They set it up once and live with it. The only people who change them regularly are those who play content where you really notice the difference, like high level fractals or raids.

What you describe is already happening in WvW. You might not know this but players have been dueling in the past, still duels and will still do it evenif it is not a supported game mode. And what happens if people that decide to duel in open world takes up place, scale up events and associated world boss to th point which other people who want to join a map are denied the access ?

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

It is not OP it it lasts only for a few seconds and if you can’t spam it and proc it passively. I mainly thought it would be good for the game to add a new effect into the game that deals with the huge amount of of boons that all classes can benefit of. It could be available only as a grandmaster trait or an elite skill. Maybe boon generation by foes in PvE could be a new mechanic that the new elite specs would deal with just as HoT made breakbar and how to break it relevant in the game.

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

OriOri.8724:

I mean yea, but its kind of weird that we need to use 2 weapon skills just to get the most out of the warden in these new maps.

You could also just use MoD as you summon your phantasmal warden.

Linken.6345:

Feanor.2358:

Ashen.2907:

I dont mean one of the “training runs” where one or two knowledgeable raiders tries to run herd on a group of 8 or 9 novices, but rather an organized group opening up a spot or two for learners and taking it slow enough to really explain things along the way.

You’re correct, that’s a better way from the perspective of the learner. I figure the main issue would be to find a solid “core” team of experienced players which have openings and don’t mind accepting a new player and helping him out.

Astralporing.1957:

Agreed. That’s why creating incentives that go beyond merely trying out that content is a bad idea, unless the appeal of those incentives doesn’t really reach beyond that content.

Again, existing legendaries all go much beyond merely trying out content. Want The Ascension? Grind a lot of PvP. Want Ad Infinitum? Play tons of fractals. Want a legendary weapon? Map-complete Tyria, then grind a WvW reward track. Want a gen 2 legendary? Map-complete HoT, then grind every map to get the required materials.

There must be an incentive to revisit content you’ve tried. In this game, legendaries have always been such an incentive. And it has worked.

Astralporing.1957:

There’s absolutely no gain in making people who hate the content play it.

Then don’t. It’s not mandatory. Simple as that.

Then please point us to what other content we can get legendary armor with stat swap functioality. Since raiding aint mandatory anymore.

To be fair stat swap functionality already exist in the game. And you certainly don’t need to a legendary armor to do that. It is called the mystic forge.

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

I wouldn’t push it 10v10. There is enough visual noise in 5v5 already.

Actually 10 v 10 is the sweet spot. Once you watch the game mode you lean to see what’s going on. You can see the blocks, buffs, heals, etc.

I could personally watch 20 v 20 and identify what’s taking place

HoT though is tough I’ll admit. Reason I said core only

Hmm still not convinced. But who knows maybe the devs will see value in your proposal.

Well WvW GvG back when it was a thing was more popular then Anet’s Pro League. It’s something you’ve obviously never partook.

That was a community run scene too so imagine what woulda happened if it actually got the Dev support.

10v10 with PvP stats I think would be a wonderful addition to the game. Give it proper support and you might be surprised at what happens.

You are right. I never could get into WvW that much because there is simply not enough incentive to do so. Except for quick dailies of course. But anyway, I kinda feel like in PvP most are already complaining that X class is too strong against X class for X reason. If you double on the number of classes taking part into the fight, it would be even more chaotic to see and actually understand wha class procced what effect to what benefit. As it stands now you’re able to do so because players rotate around points but in a TDM environment….man this a not classic trinity system where a monk is there to to play one particular build that will target and heal/support one particular teammate that is being focused. We just really need to open up some diversity with the addition of specs and have a proper 5v5 team only mode, provided the playerbase is there to do so.

You are speaking on something you have no idea on how it works. I play PvP & GvG and can speak with certainty.

You don’t even understand the best part of this games mechanics in combo fields. Organized teams with proper use of combo fields & CC injunction with top notch cohesiveness is what’s it’s all about. It takes more coordination and team work in GvG then PvP

That is all nice but the problem here is that the OP talks about PVP….not GvG in WvW. I perfectly undestand the combo fields and value the mechanics of the game in a cohesive team environment (and by the way insulting my “knowledge” is really not necessary). Your idea made me think about the HoH battles in Guild Wars and the GvG battle. But the problem is that your ideas of bringing a team of 10 coordinated people will never work as long as there is still no proper 5v5 team only environment in the game. You said you could watch 20v20 and understand what is happening but you really believe that the majority of the playerbase will get used to this under a system where people play ranked solo-duo and unranked in non even teams ? I still maintain that the visual noise in 5v5 is already strong enough for people that play and for the other that watch to truly understand what is going on, how do you solve that in 10v10 and 20v20 ? Or you just believe that visual noise is only due to elite specs ?

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

I wouldn’t push it 10v10. There is enough visual noise in 5v5 already.

Actually 10 v 10 is the sweet spot. Once you watch the game mode you lean to see what’s going on. You can see the blocks, buffs, heals, etc.

I could personally watch 20 v 20 and identify what’s taking place

HoT though is tough I’ll admit. Reason I said core only

Hmm still not convinced. But who knows maybe the devs will see value in your proposal.

Well WvW GvG back when it was a thing was more popular then Anet’s Pro League. It’s something you’ve obviously never partook.

That was a community run scene too so imagine what woulda happened if it actually got the Dev support.

10v10 with PvP stats I think would be a wonderful addition to the game. Give it proper support and you might be surprised at what happens.

You are right. I never could get into WvW that much because there is simply not enough incentive to do so. Except for quick dailies of course. But anyway, I kinda feel like in PvP most are already complaining that X class is too strong against X class for X reason. If you double on the number of classes taking part into the fight, it would be even more chaotic to see and actually understand wha class procced what effect to what benefit. As it stands now you’re able to do so because players rotate around points but in a TDM environment….man this a not classic trinity system where a monk is there to to play one particular build that will target and heal/support one particular teammate that is being focused. We just really need to open up some diversity with the addition of specs and have a proper 5v5 team only mode, provided the playerbase is there to do so.

Azukas.1426:

flog.3485:

I wouldn’t push it 10v10. There is enough visual noise in 5v5 already.

Actually 10 v 10 is the sweet spot. Once you watch the game mode you lean to see what’s going on. You can see the blocks, buffs, heals, etc.

I could personally watch 20 v 20 and identify what’s taking place

HoT though is tough I’ll admit. Reason I said core only

Hmm still not convinced. But who knows maybe the devs will see value in your proposal.

I wouldn’t push it 10v10. There is enough visual noise in 5v5 already.

phys.7689:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

This is only relevant in terms of stats not looks. Here is an example: I can’t get the legendary fractal backpiece if I don’t invest myself in playing fractals.

You can however get a legendary backpiece without investing yourself in fractals. Also, the level of investment is much lower than for raids.

I know all of that. However the person I was responding to didn’t seem to be interested in PvP achievement so…..No matter how low you think it is, you will not convince me. I for once in this game want to see a legendary item that is tied to skill and not only pure grind.

Well, legendary armor is not that item. It’s so exclusive only because it’s a grind in content that most players find extremely unpleasant.

Most players ? Source please. If you speak about the very vocal minority of players that has been spending their time creating multiple thread on forums and/or Reddit to complain for the last two years about leg armor, I am sorry but they are not these “most players”.

lets not be disingenous, i think its common wisdom that most players dont raid in this game.
“extremely distasteful” might be a stretch, but whatever the reason, most arent raiding.

Sorry a bit of confusion from my side. I interpreted it as “most players taking part into raiding”

phys.7689:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

This is only relevant in terms of stats not looks. Here is an example: I can’t get the legendary fractal backpiece if I don’t invest myself in playing fractals.

You can however get a legendary backpiece without investing yourself in fractals. Also, the level of investment is much lower than for raids.

I know all of that. However the person I was responding to didn’t seem to be interested in PvP achievement so…..No matter how low you think it is, you will not convince me. I for once in this game want to see a legendary item that is tied to skill and not only pure grind.

Well, legendary armor is not that item. It’s so exclusive only because it’s a grind in content that most players find extremely unpleasant.

beating a raid does take skill, and practice.
i agree that its a bad idea that it requires a lot of time invested in something niche, isnt a good idea, but i see a lot of people saying there is no skill involved, its just memorization, which is nonsense.

can you play an instrument? is that skill or just memorization, or just cause you like it. Does singing take skill? playing sports? what exactly is skill if it is not learning how to do something well through repetition and practice.

the reality is raids require more skill than most other things in this game. Straight up, more skill required, quantifiably. You have to do more things, with less errors. This doesnt mean its impossible for most humans.

Just because one doesnt want to raid, or doesnt want one content to have access to a unique utility, doesnt mean you have to try to diminish the mode.

that said, raids are not purely a measurement of your skill at guild wars. I would say, the way legendary armor aquisition is designed, they mostly represent a dedication to 10 man group content.
its not so much, can you beat this content, so much as do you have the dedication to do this content, with a lot of others, like what, 12 times each, over the course of weeks?

if it was solely about skill, it would probably need less people, and you’d only need to beat them a few times.

but yeah, it is harder than other pve content.

That is the thing though, it is about skill because raid kills has been killed with less people than the devs intended. If it is too much about skills with less people being able to join the party, then most players will feel more excluded because it wil narrow down the number of classes that are relevant to raid encounter for the sole reason that all classes can not produce equal DPS and equal level of support.

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

This is only relevant in terms of stats not looks. Here is an example: I can’t get the legendary fractal backpiece if I don’t invest myself in playing fractals.

You can however get a legendary backpiece without investing yourself in fractals. Also, the level of investment is much lower than for raids.

I know all of that. However the person I was responding to didn’t seem to be interested in PvP achievement so…..No matter how low you think it is, you will not convince me. I for once in this game want to see a legendary item that is tied to skill and not only pure grind.

Well, legendary armor is not that item. It’s so exclusive only because it’s a grind in content that most players find extremely unpleasant.

Most players ? Source please. If you speak about the very vocal minority of players that has been spending their time creating multiple thread on forums and/or Reddit to complain for the last two years about leg armor, I am sorry but they are not these “most players”.

PopeUrban.2578:

The point of elite specs was never that you’d become more powerful the more you collected. The point was that you would eventually have a large breadth of build options for any class, similar to the first game, where most classes have viable builds for many different roles and playstyles.

If your complain is that “all my effort is wasted” the answer is pretty obvious. Don’t use the new spec. That’s the intention. That eventually every class has access to a broad range of elites.

Though technically core builds are supposed to remain viable, that was always an unrealistic ideal. The way Thief was handled is a perfect example. They couldn’t have acrobatics be top tier at endurance regen and evade traits because its a core spec, and thus stackable with an elite. The design isn’t about maintaining parity between core and elite specs because the whole point of using elite specs is to avoid the balance problems the first game acquired after several expansions, having to constantly rebalance old stuff around new stuff.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again. Everything people don’t understand about elite specs is Anet’s fault because Anet designed the system for elite specs to be attractive options compared to one another, but in the first release of the system only offered one option. This led people to believe that they were intended to be on even footing with core specs, and created expectations of future power creep.

The entire point of the trait revamp was to attempt to “future proof” core specs and get them to a place where they don’t need to be balanced again so they can be used as the baseline around which all future elite specs are balanced.

Anet was pretty clear about this when they started revealing the system. Elite specs are built so Anet only ever has to make sure elite specs are balanced against the 5 core spec lines. They learned a hard lesson in GW1, as they were adding a ton of skills per expansion, which was fun, and not a big deal with factions, as you just balance factions skills against prophecies. Then they released nightfall and realized that now they had twice as many skills to balance against. Then eye of the north had far fewer skills because now they had to balance it against three times as many skills. Over time, that creates a situation where every time you add new skills (or in GW2’s case, specializations) it takes longer to design them because every time you add something makes adding the next thing more complex.

Elite specs get around that by being a combination of secondary class and skill expansion that doesn’t affect the balancing of the next elite spec.

If Anet has spent all the resources used to shoehorn the completely unnecessary Revnant class in to the game and released HoT with 2 specs for each class (and the Rev’s legends, with very few changes, could have easily been those specs) we wouldn’t be having this conversation, or the conversation about how core builds should be “brought up” to compete with elites. I think a lot of people still really misunderstand the system because Anet released it half finished for its intended design. With the next xpack you’ll start seeing the real point of elites, that they’re meant to be build options, not straight upgrades, and that anet’s design is that players are generally expected to be using an elite spec, with “core” builds being just part of the new player learning experience that gets replaced with a more complex system once they’re familiar with the game, the same way leveling gets replaced with mastries.

+1 to that. However, whatever their intented design was, it is sad to see that some skills tied to elite skills were just just so much OP and that it lacked some time to properly flesh out everything that they had created imo. But I am personally being optimistic, because this time, they won’t have to create a new profession with its skills, traits and elite spec from scratch while all the other professions already had this treatment of having being tuned since the release of the game.

Crinn.7864:

People need to realize that the point of legendary armor isn’t to win fashion contests.

It’s a prestige item that needs to reconized as a prestige item without the viewer having knowledge of lege armor. It’s like how legendary weapons are obviously a special type of weapon even to new players that don’t know about legendary items. Legendary armor is the same way, and ArenaNet succeeded. The Lege armors are distinctive to the extreme.

Exactly. I don’t raid but that is alright. I will chase the other shinies I can get.

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

This is only relevant in terms of stats not looks. Here is an example: I can’t get the legendary fractal backpiece if I don’t invest myself in playing fractals.

You can however get a legendary backpiece without investing yourself in fractals. Also, the level of investment is much lower than for raids.

I know all of that. However the person I was responding to didn’t seem to be interested in PvP achievement so…..No matter how low you think it is, you will not convince me. I for once in this game want to see a legendary item that is tied to skill and not only pure grind.

Astralporing.1957:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Yup that’s exactly right, finally getting that item you have been working for for ages because you really want it and its rare can give a burst of pleasure/prestige, its core to rpg and always has been. Everyone running about with the exact same hammer of godly powerlessness +500 is the other side of the coin. As for player looking bad, that’s the problem of the observer.

Nah, if you dress according to rarity, not aestethics, you are just far more likely to end up dressed in a bunch of completely mismatched gear that do not complement each other. I’ve seen it a lot in the games with no transmutation, where people cared only aboit having good stats. I’ve seen it in GW2 as well. The end result is, most of the time, ugly, simply because there was no care put into it looking good.

And it still carries no prestige. If i even notice people dressed like that, it’s generally only when they look so bad i feel the need to laugh and pity them.

flog.3485:

I really don’t think so. It is pretty much set in stone that they would never add gear progression and higher level than 80, just like they never considered in Guild Wars the possibility to raise the lvl higher than 20.

Well, to be completely honest, they did at some time (pre-launch) consider increasing level cap in the future, and just after the introduction of ascended they were talking about continuing on gear progression course. They’ve just abandoned both of those ideas due to backlash it generated then.

Also, i kind of remember, that the “no raids in gw2” approach was also at some time set in stone. Until it suddenly wasn’t.

So, it is possible they will someday change their mind on that one. It would be a complete betrayal of ideas GW2 was build upon, but it wouldn’t be exactly the first time they deviated from their original course.

I just think it’s not very likely to happen in the foreseeable future. But then, i haven’t foreseen raids either.

Ah sorry I can’t sympathize with the sentiment of pre-launch because when I started playing, ascended was already introduced in the game if I recall correctly so my bad for that. Other than that, could you please not bring up the topic of raids in this thread ? I get that you hate them. Mind you its implementation is different than in other game, I will leave it as that.

phys.7689:

Chyanne Waters.8719:

If the OP would do some research of Arena net he/she would find out that gear progression is hated by them. It’s the typical MMO design. Make a game, set max level, grind to get to that level, get gear to do the best stuff in the game (because your skills suck, and you need that gear to make you able to do the content), Then you get an expansion raise the level 5 or 10 levels. Grind those levels get new gear to let you do the best content again.

The progression in GW2 is using the best armor u can get Ascended or Legendary Although Exotic works for most things anyway but lets say its Ascended for now.
Masteries and Elite specializations are your gear progression they give you different abilities that were never available before.

Not only in the first part of the expansion, but constantly added content like the living story. In Lake Doric the mastery had to do with your downed state. giving you the ability to do damage to any foe in the area you use it in and interrupting them at the same time. In the newest story line you have the ability to use oakheart essence. That lets you move around like a spider web slinging person to get to places, even while gliding. Those are just examples of what GW2 gear progression is. It is your skill not gear that makes the difference.

All gear progression will do is make GW2 another WoW clone and Anet does not want that ever

ehhh, i wouldnt say never. I would say they didnt want to do that before. But they still havent ruled out the possibility, and it becomes more likely the longer the game lives. For now i think they are satisfied with masteries and new stat combos though, in terms of new progression mechanics after 80

I really don’t think so. It is pretty much set in stone that they would never add gear progression and higher level than 80, just like they never considered in Guild Wars the possibility to raise the lvl higher than 20. The only way for them to create a level cap higher than lvl 80 with its associated armor, would be to give up on GW2 and create GW3, just like they “sort of” left Guild Wars to create GW2, which in a way raised the max lvl 20 to 80.

Raids have no underwater content. That is the answer I would say

JustTrogdor.7892:

flog.3485:

JustTrogdor.7892:

With apparently no plans to make more legendary armor, perhaps Anet could devise a way for people that don’t raid to earn/upgrade ascended armor already in game to legendary functionality without the cosmetics. So with a recipe of sorts people that want the functions of legendary armor, stat swapping and rune swapping, can earn it outside of raids. With this, no need to make new legendary armor for people that don’t raid and the people that do raid still have their fancy cosmetic armor to stand out from those that do not.

Just an idea and the upgrade to legendary functionality should still require a significant effort/cost. Of course it would take some work for Anet to figure out things like impact on the economy, like they stated was an issue with allowing legendary weapon sigil swapping, but it might be something they could look into. It seems like an interesting compromise to me.

This needs to happen for WvW imo: statswap for armor, sigils and runes that you can obtain by investing time in WvW. But first they need to add ascended armor :p

There are many players between PvE and WvW that play a lot of each but don’t raid. As for ascended armor in WvW, legendary weapons require WvW so I think it is fair to require some PvE from WvW’s to earn ascended armor first. I think if Anet could make a generic version/upgrade ascended to legendary armor for the only purpose of stat swapping with the necessary challenge/cost investment a lot of players would go for it.

tl;dr Each game mode outside raids should have a method to upgrade armor to legendary functionality without the cosmetics that should only be available to those that raid.

Hmmm care to disagre then ? I honestly prefer gating statswapping benefits to WvW only (except for legendary armor of course). That way, it gains some real incentive to go play WvW since the population is lacking.

Djinn.9245:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Labjax, it may be because you took a break from the game but I can assure you that people that play higher end content can survive the jungle in zerker gear. The people who follow the meta tend to get zerker gear, but I have plenty of people in my guild who use other options, because it’s a casual guild. They didn’t have to change their armor at all.

A lot of it really is just knowing the enemy to survive.

I’ll also say he is right about the masteries, its way easier to navigate with better gliding, access to mushrooms, and wallows. Early on its most difficult to navigate, at the same time you need the dynamic events that you dont know how to get to easily. When you have masteries, you can hop on a shroom, glide to an updraft, etc, but early on you have to take a longer roundabout path that is not nearly so obvious.

Starting in VB was a terrible idea. You start with basic gliding and when you run out of steam so much of the map has the vine floor that eats you. Or you might be up in the canopy when you run out. Its very disheartening that you often find nowhere to land that isn’t instant death. AB should be the intro map.

What ? if you find yourself up in the canopy, most of what is below you is earth. In that case, you just let yourself fall down low enough to activate your glider in order to not take fall damage. And even when you realize you won’t have enough steam to not fall to your death, you can simply WP away in mid-air because you will be ooc.

JustTrogdor.7892:

With apparently no plans to make more legendary armor, perhaps Anet could devise a way for people that don’t raid to earn/upgrade ascended armor already in game to legendary functionality without the cosmetics. So with a recipe of sorts people that want the functions of legendary armor, stat swapping and rune swapping, can earn it outside of raids. With this, no need to make new legendary armor for people that don’t raid and the people that do raid still have their fancy cosmetic armor to stand out from those that do not.

Just an idea and the upgrade to legendary functionality should still require a significant effort/cost. Of course it would take some work for Anet to figure out things like impact on the economy, like they stated was an issue with allowing legendary weapon sigil swapping, but it might be something they could look into. It seems like an interesting compromise to me.

This needs to happen for WvW imo: statswap for armor, sigils and runes that you can obtain by investing time in WvW. But first they need to add ascended armor :p

What PvP really needs is just skins. Exclusive skins that are tied to playing ranked PvP. Imagine this: when you reach top tier bronze, you get some skins (1 armor and weapon skins similar to skins you earn with AP), that are tied to bronze tier achievements. Then you just apply this system to all existing tiers.

But the game has never been about gear progression. It has always been about fashion wars, you said it yourself. In the next expansion though, they will certainly add new stats combo to hunt and play with. That is the closest "gear progression " you will ever have. Other than that, OP you might want to go raiding for convenient rune swaps.

Weli.4568:

You clearly misunderstand how games work if your first thought while playing or failing was “this obviously needs to be easier” instead of “what can i do differently to beat this”. Now if you have used everything you have and asked other possibly more experienced players for tips and still failed. Then it could be argued that it needs to be easier.

Challenge mode isn’t there for people to get normal difficulty content, it’s there to offer that extra mile for players that want to really challenge themselves and push their skills to the limit.
What you are asking for is easy mode. Not the normal mode you think it is. Even if your suggestion went through there would have to be three different modes to satisfy people who just want to press f to kill the final boss, for people who want to do some work with a risk for the reward and for people who currently do the challenge modes.

Failing is part of playing games, that’s what makes them fun. If you’d only succeed in everything you do in the game that would become boring pretty fast.

Boss is fine as it is, no solid arguments have been put out to make it easier. Compared to the Caudecus fight where there were solid arguments for making it tad easier.

100% agree with that.

My only advice would be: when you reach lvl 80, don’t rush into HoT content. Make sure you got yourself exotic tier weapons, trinkets and armor and then you can start looking for ascended tier quality equipment. Other than that: enjoy the dynamic events, map exploration, world bosses, story, the crafting and get used to traits, weapons and dodge mechanics. Once you feel like you have “mastered” all of that by playing fractals/dungeons or even PvP (if you like that, note that you don’t need to play PvE to play PvP), then you could start looking into HoT content imo. Altghough I would also advise you to buy and play season 2 content as a bridge between core and expansion if you have a spare gold to transfer into gems to buy season 2 (It will also make more sense in terms of gameplay and story).

SeranusGaming.7362:

Just my two cents -

1. I think they all look ridiculous and no where near what I would consider, “legendary.”

2. The fact that they can only be obtained via raids is a complete betrayal of what GW2 was supposed to be – a game with multiple areas and the ability to upgrade gear based upon the area you enjoy most.

This is only relevant in terms of stats not looks. Here is an example: I can’t get the legendary fractal backpiece if I don’t invest myself in playing fractals.