Guild Wars 2

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

how is this fair?

Because we have Terror.
If their 4-5sec fears also did 4-5k dmg then yes, it would be unfair.
Also, thieves have to steal first, warriors have to use a utility slot for Fear Me.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

thief just needs to click once for a 4-5 second fear then run behind me stabbing me in the back till I die

Stunbreak?

I don’t really understand your complaint. If you think DS is weak untraited then just use the traits you think improves it.
Comparing our class mechanic to other’s in regards to how it performs without any traits is rather pointless as well. People use traits, that’s just how it is. And literally every viable build in any environment of the game includes traits that somehow interact with Death Shroud.
Also, balancing can only be done when you’re factoring in DS traits. You can’t simply flat buff the base version of DS.

I haven’t noticed any changes since the patch, and in general the skill is very reliable. You don’t need to face anyone while casting, you don’t need to stand close to your target, it’s unblockable… there’s really not much that can go wrong here, for me at least.
As to the terrain issues, I can’t remember the last time this skill should’ve hit when it actually missed. Dark Path on the other hand quite often tells me “Obstructed” when I’m standing right in front of my target, wvw dolyaks mostly.

Bellamy.9860:

@flow Maybe healing power isn’t the most usefull of attributes for necro but everything else on celestial is great.
DS and staff (used by nearly every build) profit from power stats(pow,prec,fero) and condi and the class mechanic is pretty much face tanking which is more potent by adding in defensive stats, so in my book nec is a candidate for celes.

I play a hybrid build myself, so I know you’re making a valid point, but in my experience it’s usually more effective to shift some of your stats in one or the other direction rather than having the exact same amount of everything.

In a full power build, there’s no need to take a carrion staff (with sigil of malice) or food with 70 condi dmg.
Power all the way is better. I’d maybe mix in some Berserker gear here and there.

Runes: You should check out Pack runes, they are the perfect addition to power builds with a low crit chance. Or Runes of Strength if you Life Blast with Reaper’s Might a lot.

Traits: Quickening Thirst is a waste. Movement speed is generally overrated on necros. I get that you feel slow coming from a thief, but even with +25% you won’t be running away from anyone. Besides, you have Spectral Walk for the occasional swiftness.
So I’d probably move those points to Spite for Close to Death.

Skills: Spectral Wall could be good sometimes but I’d probably take Well of Power instead. On the other hand, if you’re having troubles with life force regeneration, the more spectral skills the better.
For (solo) roaming: golem>plague.

Sigils: on swap/crit > static bonus. Go with energy, leeching, hydromancy, fire, air…

Masir.6907:

now celestial is op

I don’t think it’s op for any class and least of all for necros, and it never will be unless you’re able to heal in DS.
Healing Power is still a mostly useless stat for necros, so unless you’re trying get a very specific amount of other stats, celestial gear will not be used to it’s full potential with any necro build.

Masir.6907:

I believe this is currently strongest 1v1 build in game , didnt have any trouble at all against most of good players

That’s a very bold statement, I’m sceptical to say the least.
Also, if it’s really the best best 1v1 build, shouldn’t you’ve been able to defeat all players instead of just “most good players”?

Anyway, if you happen to be on the European server and you’re really that confident in your build I’ll gladly challenge you to a duel! ^^

Bubblez.4612:

Do most necro commanders use dire/ soldiers gear?

Ascii is a commander and uses knight/cavalier.

Don’t rely on you gear too much, skill timing and the way you are positioning yourself contribute a lot more to your survivability.

Runes of the Pack are incredibly good since the patch.
175 power, 125 precision, 30% swiftness duration and on the 4th bonus: 25% chance when struck to grant nearby allies (including yourself) might, fury and swiftness for 10 sec (20 sec cd).
That means, as soon as you are in combat you are reliably sharing these boons with your team… as a necro!
Also, I use them with 4 points in Death Magic and Banshee’s Wail. And with all that Locust Swarm gives me 22.5 seconds of swiftness on a 24 sec cd.

According to the patch notes they fixed this bug:

• Reaper’s Mark: This skill no longer has a reduced cast time when traited with Greater Marks.

I’ve always been using Greater Marks and never had a reduced cast time on Reaper’s Mark… until this patch. When I cast it now it looks like I have a quickness buff.

I already made a bug report:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-Reaper-s-Mark-cast-time/

But I actually wanted to check with other necros here, does anyone else have this issue? Or did anyone’s Reaper’s Mark really have a shorter cast time before the patch?

Signet of Spite doesn’t do that much damage, it’s just 2x bleeding and poison. The rest are pretty much cover conditions, powerful at the right moment but a random Signet+Epidemic combo cast into a zerg will usually do close to nothing.

Your trait setup is definitely better with a power build. I wouldn’t use soldiers, not exclusively at least, most of it should be gear with ferocity if you’re using Deathly Perception.
Also, drop Soul Marks for Unyielding Blast.

If you want to play a carrion-hybrid build that works in zergs, take a look at this.
I will rewrite a lot of it soon so it includes the recent patch, but the build itself will pretty much stay the same.

Quells.2498:

My suggestion would be to use the trait that generates 3% Life Force from Marks which after hitting five targets with each mark (which you will be doing anyways) will generate more Life Force and it doesn’t take up three slots on your ability bar.

Sadly, Soul Marks doesn’t give you 3% per target but per mark. It’s not that great really.

Vinailt.3248:

With 25 stacks of might, my bleeds tick for ~2.3k and my LB hits for 10-12k. I’d record some gameplay videos to post here that are specific to this build, but I just don’t have the time to dedicate to it anymore.

Disregarding the fact that you need some time to build 25 stacks of might, 10-12k LB with a hybrid and a total of 12-14k single target dps sounds a little too good to be true. I’d really like to see a video of that :P

Panhauramix.2784:

There was a long post explaining damage timing with conditions, but I can’t remember where it was, just search for it if you want the maths in detail.

No need for a long post or detailed math to explain it.

It’s simple: the first condition applied to any target (by you or anyone else) sets up a timer that ticks every second and also applies to every condition that is inflicted later.

For example:

Style.1092:

so don’t look at tooltip, just turn on terror and master of terror traits and try on golem clean fear skill 5 on staff(which always ticks 1 time) and try skill 2, 5 on staff and now fear ticks 2 times in almost every try (but sometimes it can also tick only 1 time)

In this case you had +50% fear duration, so it was very likely for you to get 2 ticks of fear if you cast mark 2 and 5 in a row because the cast time is 0.75 seconds.
You started your condition timer with bleeding at T(zero), then apllied a 1.5 sec long fear from T(0.75-2.25). So it overlapped with the full seconds of the pre-existing timer twice, hence giving you 2 ticks of fear.

Dennis.6952:

the little boxes that pop up when you hover over a particular skill.

aka tooltip

@Lingering Curse:

The tooltip of that trait is false and misleading. There is not a single skill on the scepter that is increased by exactly 33%. Not only that, but the usage of a percentage value all too often makes people believe that this trait somehow interacts with other duration increases, which it doesn’t.
What really happens is, every scepter skill gets a fix amount of extra seconds to their condis, like 7 instead of 5 for the auto attack bleedings. This is a modified base duration, it’s like an entirely new skill so it doesn’t count towards the 100% limit of the unmodified 5 seconds.
If someone says they have +133% on scepter, then you might as well argue that your utility slot #6 got a bleeding duration increase of 200% after changing it from Signet of Spite to Blood is Power.
Also +133% can never be true anyway because for example Blood Curse will tick 14 times with 100% duration and Lingering Curse, which would be 280% of its original 5 seconds.

Just to complete the list here, the durations on scepter without and with Lingering Curse:

Auto Attack (bleed/bleed/poison): 5/5/4 seconds. With LC: 7/7/6 sec.

Grasping Dead: 7/5 sec. LC: 9/6 sec.

That would be a base duration increase of 40% – 50% – 28.6% – 20%.

2 reasons:

1. Tool tips are inaccurate. They always round to 1/4 of a second. So if your fear duration is +90% a 1 sec fear will be displayed as 2 sec but of course only last 1.9 sec.

2. Since the last patch I’ve been getting some weird numbers in the HotM here and there as well. Similar to your 4.25 sec Fear, I had the occasional tooltip that was a lot higher than the actual increase. My guess would be that there’s some conflict with PvE gear, but at that time I didn’t investigate any further.

Either way, just don’t rely on tooltips. The increased duration from your gear is always applied correctly.

I just ckecked it myself.
Both the tooltip (with rounding inaccuracies) and the actual duration increase are working correctly for the rune and the trait.

From the patch notes:

• Reaper’s Mark: This skill no longer has a reduced cast time when traited with Greater Marks.

Apparently this fix had the opposite effect on me.
I’ve always been using Greater Marks and the cast time of Reaper’s Mark was never faster than the others. Now it looks like I have quickness while casting it.

…NOT!!

My favourite change besides the Dhuumfire nerf.

Take a last look at one of these annoying little rats dying a “natural” death instead of exploding into a poisonous cloud from now on.

Kravick.4906:

Has anyone tried the new Krait runes yet?

I tested them once. They don’t fit into my hybrid build, but I think they are the strongest contenter for condi necros in spvp so far.

Nightmare will increase your overall condi duration which is better of course, but I hate stuff like “fear at any random moment… cd: 1 year!”.

Btw, the 6th bonus of Krait is a 5-target aoe. One stack of bleeding, torment, and poison each. I’m not sure about the range, it’s lower than 600 but more than 240. Probably 480..?
Anyway, if you’re using the golem as your elite, this is the rune to get imo.

The new skill facts on Locust Swarm for duration and number of impacts says 10/10 even when traited with Banshee’s Wail.

Also, Bnashee’s Wail still makes Locust Swarm only tick 13 times instead of increasing effectiveness by 50% like the trait suggests or the 15 sec countdown on the buff icon implies.

Luke.4562:

Skills and traits that refill life force will continue to function while in Death Shroud. However, the necromancer will not get life force from nearby deaths.

Just tested, Life Force won’t be generated under DS by deaths.
Probably you had up Spectral Armor.

I always thought this was strange, and all the more now considering that anet usually wants to build in some sort of synergy between minor traits of the same line.
What we now have is: here, a trait that makes you tougher in DS, and here’s is a second one that doesn’t work in DS at all, gl hf. – kewl thx -_-

And yes, it’s a buff and I’ll gladly take it over PotH. But seriously, it’s an almost negligable buff to the weakest and least reliable source of life force income we have.
This trait wouldn’t be overwhelmingly good if it was 15% or even 20%.
2% is just too little.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Didn’t they buff the bleeding duration on geomancy though?

Yes, from 7 to 10 seconds. I doubt the extended duration will be that useful in any PvP environment.

Yamsandjams.3267:

In actual fact, I never knew it did that much direct damage in the first place.

The damage was about the same as Necrotic Grasp. Not a big deal for rabid or dire builds, but in a hybrid build Geomancy was the ultimate on-swap sigil.

I’d like Nightmare runes with the 6th bonus of Krait

Overall the patch is really cool so far, but there are a few changes here and there that somewhat dissapointed me.

1. Above all: Sigils of Geomancy and Hydromancy.

I was actually looking forward to slot both sigils on my staff, I am doing it anyway, but it’s far from what I expected it to be. Hydro chill was nerfed down to 2 sec and Geomancy’s direct damage was reduced by 75%! This was a major part of my hybrid damage output, what used to be 1-1.5k direct damage (in addition to bleeding) is now a very modest ~250 dmg.

I suppose Anet anticipated that a double swap damage + 2 conditions would be a little too powerful in their old version. But what used to be hesitation towards what second sigil to use has now turned into a feeling of being forced into the Hydro+Geo combo because I would lose out on too much damage otherwise.

2. New Master Minor Trait – Soul Comprehension: Increases the passive life force generation from nearby deaths.

Turns out, it gives you a whopping 2% extra life force. I remember hearing/reading that a kill would give you 15% with this trait…? But just 2%, rly? For an on-death master tier trait?

3. Mad King runes.

I know this won’t bother too many people because it’s a rather unpopular rune, but what happened is this: Bleeding duration was slightly increased, but the 10% condition duration is now just 5%.
It’s not too big of a deal, but still… if they felt 10% was too strong for the second bonus then all they needed to do was switch it with the 4th bonus bleeding duration.

There are a few more annoying changes that concern me as well, but for now, does anyone else want to share their sob story or thoughts on the matter?

While I agree that +40% condi duration puts a necro in super sayan mode, the comparison to power food is not as easy as some people here make it look.
A 100 power/10% crit dmg food (or ~5% in the future) or Seaweed Salad (10% dmg while moving) gives any power build an instant damage increase to all their attacks.
40% duration on the other hand depends on the skills you’re using. Fear will most likely give you an additional tick, probably Barbed Precision as well… and of course lame-fire but that’ll be nerfed anyway.
But any other long duration condi might not even get the benefits of the food at all. Therefore, if the food was nerfed down to 10% duration + 70 cond dmg it would not only be far inferior to the instant damage increase of power food but actually close to useless. Not to mention that the utility nourishment, Toxic Tuning Crystals, would actually be stronger than regular food.

infantrydiv.1620:

Why would you want to play a kitten hybrid power/condi necro?

I play a hybrid build myself, in both WvW and sPvP.

infantrydiv.1620:

Withering precision is pretty bad, yes. But at least would give you some damage mitigation in a 1v1 scenario vs a hambow or thief

Especially against those two classes I would never ever sacrifice a trait slot for a measly 5 sec weakness that just procs randomly every 20 (!) seconds. Worst case scenario: the trait triggers during Berserker Stance, not to mention their good cleansing in general.
Also, he has Weakening Shroud, an off hand dagger and he could combo weakness with Chillblains and Putrid.

infantrydiv.1620:

Target the Weak and Strength of Undeath are decent traits for a power build, but since you are running a condition set up, there is no reason to take these over something like Lingering Curse or Withering Precision (Curses XI, XII)

Actually every trait is worth taking over Withering Precision (<-worst trait ever).
Lingering Curse, also meh for PvP.

He uses a carrion amulet which gives him a total of 1840 power, with that in mind, I can see this kind of trait setup working pretty well with a hybrid build.
The only problem I would then have is the horrible direct damage scaling of the scepter, but I guess that’s a matter of personal play style.

I do agree that you should use Consume Conditions instead of the signet.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m not actually sure what dire condi necros are in WvW right now. I know in sPvP the new meta will likely be 20/30/0/0/20 (unless Dhuumfire turns out not to be that bad), but in WvW its probably 30/20/X/X/X, because Dark Pathing into a zerg might not be helpful.

A zergling probably wouldn’t have dire gear in the first place. On the other hand, should the occasion arise and you somehow despite supreme necro-mobility end up in the meatgrinder then you might as well Dark Path for some aoe chill.

For small scale roamers I could actually see a lot of necros taking both gm traits at the cost of Last Gasp.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Small scaled characters give you a lager field of view.

You can’t zoom out further if that’s what you mean.

Rym.1469:

roll anything other than Asura as they will make you look like a dark poop in DS

Haha. It’s funny because it’s true.

HeadCrowned.6834:

since the attack causes fear it functionates as a stun breaker

?

I wasn’t aware this was considered a bug. But let’s be honest here, if this skill was weaker then any fight against warriors would heavily favor the necro.
Also, of course there’s counter play to it: non-condition CC and direct damage still works.

I think you would learn a lot more by playing with or against a skilled necro in game.
This way it’s a lot easier to kitten where you have room for improvement.

jportell.2197:

They aren’t changing crit damage there just pve/wvw

They are replacing the gear stat “critical damage” with ferocity for every game mode.
So yes, it will also affect sPvP, especially considering that PvP-gear will be removed from the game entirely.

But no, power builds will still be viable. Nevertheless, your prejudice against condition builds is unfounded.

I don’t get the 30 points in Death Magic. Imo Spiteful Vigor and Death Shiver are one of the worst traits we have, not to mention the horrible minors you’re forced to take because of them. And Ritual of Protection… you are sacrificing a grandmaster trait slot for 4 seconds of protection tied to a single 50 sec cd skill.

Bhawb.7408:

It was nerfed because it was good enough that it was pretty much single handedly making Necros viable in high tier PvP. Once it was nerfed Necro play dropped off massively.

Back then I hated that people expected pretty much nothing from us other than being a rally bot on a 3 min cooldown. I even got asked a few times why I wouldn’t run Signet of Undeath, like it was as shocking to see as a condi necro without Terror today. But this signet sucked hard back then, and of course it sucks even harder today. People would’ve stopped using it either way, necros got significant buffs in general and to their other utility skills, some of which just don’t have a place in pvp.
Besides, I wouldn’t use Signet of Undeath if it was instant cast. For the most time you’d be giving up a utility slot for basically nothing, that’s a no-go not only for yourself but for the team as well.

Kravick.4906:

I honestly didn’t even know that food existed. Really, no one uses that food normally. Likely, like me, most people don’t know about it.

The first time I saw someone using Seaweed Salad in WvW was about two months ago. Since then it seems to have grown in popularity, more and more people are eating this. And without a doubt, for some classes it’s clearly the best damage modifier, not to mention a little cheaper than something like Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup. Although, their price almost trippled in the past three months.

Icewielder.4195:

Oh, and 2 minutes of swiftness on a necro, not something I’m gonna complain about. Stack up a few thousand coyotes and enjoy.

Wasn’t boon duration stacking limited a few patches ago..?

daimasei.4091:

I never had problems to … kill up to 3-4 player at the same time by myself
…
Also, I was able to tank big (and I mean BIG) zergs.

cool story

daimasei.4091:

The build was 20/0/20/30/0 with minions

wot

daimasei.4091:

…and their very high dmg is worthless against a soldier necro.

…

daimasei.4091:

I use … signets, …

You must be trolling.

Icewielder.4195:

If you play with skill lag like has been incredibly bad since seasons started, you wouldn’t be surprised by the cooldown showing up even when the skill isn’t done channeling.

dank.3680:

And you can see in the screenshot the channel bar at 60% with no other channel skills and its clearly still mid-animation.

The Ghastly Claws channel is represented by the taller and darker bar in the background. The thinner one which is at roughly ~60% progress is the auto attack, yet another indicator for a completed Ghastly Claws channel.
The picture shows that your landed 10k on an npc, that’s all. Stating that the picture doesn’t represent what actually happend is as much anecdotal evidence as your claim of hitting 10-20k on a regular basis.
So again: 10k+ on real players? Pics (or vids) or it didn’t happen :P

Icewielder.4195:

10k is trivial to get, this is a 60% channeled ghastly claws…

Clearly it isn’t at 60%, the cooldown on Ghastly Claws started which means that the channel was completed.
Also, you generally hit a lot harder on guard/sentry npcs because of wvw infusions and +10% damage from the Guard Killer line.
And from personal experience, guards seem to have a rather low armor value, but I’m just guessing now.

Anyway, the screenshot you posted rather confirms that you can’t hit as hard as 20k on real players. Tbh I’d be quite suprised to see proof of a 10k+ hit on any non glass canon player.

Kravick.4906:

Oh, well that might explain it. I don’t have ascended armor.

That doesn’t explain anything.
The only significant damage buff is upgrading your weapon from exotics to ascended.
And even then you certainly won’t make a giant step up from below 8k to 10-20k damage on Ghastly Claws.

I have to say, those numbers sound rather unbelievable to me as well. Would you mind posting some screenshots of your combat log?

BlackBeard.2873:

Now necros will be able to reliably condi-bomb you with EVERY SINGLE CONDI IN THE GAME!!

To be fair, necros are already able to use the current perplexity’s 6th bonus with Spectral Grasp and warhorn. And other than that they can apply every condition with corruptions or transfers.

Also, 5 perplexity + cest/sigil was already the go-to damage option for necros in WvW. They will be rediculously overpowered after the patch.

On the other hand, I’m glad that Perplexity will be introduced in sPvP as well because that is more likely to get them nerfed (harder than the “substantial” icd increase…).

Flumek.9043:

The #2 chanel will get canceled by … side walk or port behind.

Only if you’re immobilized or force your character to face a certain direction. In any other case you will spin whichever way your opponent goes or even teleports during the channel.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

As for numbers, for reference and for comparison;

Blood Curse: 15 1/2s ~ 2,193d
Rending Curse: 15 1/2s ~ 2,193d
Putrid Curse: 10 1/4s ~ 2,914d

Grasping Dead: 19 1/2s ~ 8,331d (bleed) – 10 1/2s (cripple)

Enfeebling Blood: 26 1/2 ~ 7,600d

Blood Is Power: 1m ~ 23,092d

- Not arguing with what you’ve said just wanted to post numbers straight from the game (looking at it). This is with all my stacks and food buffs.

That’s just the skill tooltip, which apparently doesn’t care about the 100% limit.
15.5 sec on Blood Curse is what you get with Lingering Curse and +120% duration. However, the applied bleeding is really just 14 seconds long.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Also, which runes would you suggest replacing?

I would wait until they’ve reworked all runes in the next patch before making a major investment.

Brando.1374:

flow.6043:

I can tell you the results right now:

Blood and Rending Curse: 14 sec of bleeding.
Putrid Curse: 9 sec poison.
Grasping Dead: 18 sec bleeding, 9 sec cripple.

so we can break the 100% bleed duration cap

No :P

Brando.1374:

Next time im online ill get my condi pve set to test.
I use a 10/30/10/20/0 build to get 133%bleed duration
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0Udb3NW2wfjCQqw1TKy+boC7G9gYjTG-zgCBYhgINBiqAgkGk8AKHqIasFMCRlPasqbY6YER1BAOAIobpAgYaE-e

I can tell you the results right now:

Blood and Rending Curse: 14 sec of bleeding.
Putrid Curse: 9 sec poison.
Grasping Dead: 18 sec bleeding, 9 sec cripple.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Also in regards to those talking about bleed duration, I understand I might be going a bit overboard with bleed duration but I enjoy stacking bleeds on top of bleeds when fighting people.

I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t stack bleeds. You just have a trait (or runes) that overstack, as in: some of it literally doesn’t do anything for you. If you dropped Hemophilia your bleed stacks would be exactly as high as they are now because the trait overshoots the 100% limit.

Brando.1374:

then why do my aa bleeds show 9s when it should be capped at 8 when looking at the time left on the bleed my target has

The durations on scepter without and with Lingering Curse:

Auto Attack (bleed/bleed/poison): 5/5/4 seconds. With LC: 7/7/6 sec.

Grasping Dead: 7/5 sec. LC: 9/6 sec.

That would be an increase of 40% – 50% – 28.6% – 20%.
But those percentages don’t matter, it just shows you that each duration is inceased to a round number of seconds, and in no case by 33%.

Now, if you take those durations as your base value you’re still able to incease them by up to 100%. For example: Blood Curse can tick up to 14 times, which would be an incease of 180% of its original 5 sec without any duration or LC.

In your case:
You have +60% bleeding duration. That means 8 sec without, and 11.2 sec with Lingering Curse.

Brando.1374:

Max bleed duration for a necro is 133% with scepter

No it’s not.

Lingering Curse increases the base durations the scepter puts out, and btw, non of those are actually increased by 33%. The tooltip is false and misleading.

I’ll just say this, you have too much bleeding duration. Unless you want to compensate for any duration reduction your opponents might have, Hemophilia does absolutely nothing. 100% is the cap for all conditions.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

flow.6043:

Actually yes, that’s exactly what it means. Especially considering that our class mechanic and defense is based on having just that, a high hp pool. No blocks, no stealth, no invulnerability, no teleports or other means to evade damage.
Based on that, our healing potential should at least double with every opponent that outnumbers us.

Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk, Dark Path = teleports.

“….or other means to evade damage”
In that context I was obviously refering to skills like Infiltrator’s Arrow. Or leap skills, something that let’s you escape a fight anyway.
Dark Path is a gap closer, Spectral Walk hardly let’s you escape a fight unless you were precasting it before jumping into the fray, and the Flesh Wurm… I know some people use it but it’s actually a severe liability.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And the heal itself considering how much health a Necro has, is kind of bad.

Glad to see someone’s on my side of the argument though.