Guild Wars 2

albotelho.2931:

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.

This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.

vicious.5683:

No, you are wrong(lol). Guardian in general have a lot of blocks> high defense, but low damage.

That depends on the build, guardians can deal some pretty high damage if they want to. However, this doesn’t mean less access to boons. It only means they will have less vitality and toughness.

Kravick.4906:

flow.6043:

Many have said it already in this thread: other classes don’t have as effective cleanses as the necro. At some point other classes will get overwhelmed with conditions without being able to do anything about it.

This is what I don’t understand when people whine about this. If a necro is incapable of overwhelming condition clears, a necro will never do any damage. The opposing class will always kill the necromancer.

Are you saying that you want the necromancer to never be able to deal their damage with conditions? Because that is exactly what you and everyone else are saying right now.

If conditions get cleared that doesn’t mean that they didn’t do any damage up until then.
On the other hand, if they can’t be cleansed at all then all it takes to kill a thief is 2-3 Marks of Blood, or 1 Blood is Power.
Conditions on skills are balanced around being cleansed at some point, they aren’t meant to stay on a player for their entire duration.

So @overwhelming condi clears: the concept itself is of course good, it fits the necro playstlye and worked fairly well before the patch. But with burning this became so powerful that it’s not a challenge anymore. Other classes just can’t keep up with it, so there’s no back and forth like it used to be.

I agree that our damage might have been in need of a buff, but torment alone does this job pretty well.

Ok… I just tested myself against an npc in wvw, with someone else helping me out:
no ally-cleanse, just 3 conditions transfered.
I could have sworn that it transfered all condis a few days back… guess not.

Anyway, the tooltip of Putrid Mark still says "transfers conditions from allies to foes ", so this change really can’t be intended… then again, anet and tooltips :/

vicious.5683:

flow.6043:

I gotta ask… what is your definition of a hybrid build?
To me it seems like you are just talking about a regular power build that happens to do the occasional burning.
Either way… there is absolutely no reason for a hybrid build not to take Terror if you run Dhuumfire with it.

Hybrids are not compelled to take staff or spectral wall to be viable, so you won’t take terror whatsoever. And Dhuumfire its great for those builds. It’s just not so much ppl have experimented with other builds beside the boring terror/burning FOTM

Again, not running Terror either means you are making yourself weaker than you have to be or it’s a full on power build.

Also, not taking the staff in PvP… how good can that build really be?

And what are those additional condition cleanses?

Besides Shadow’s Embrace (which every thief runs anyway) there’s only the Sigil of Agility and Show return (both for the swords and Shadow Step). Am I missing something?
Even if you have all of those, the condi pressure is too much for a thief.

And no, this is not a “skill issue”.

vicious.5683:

No, you are wrong. Every mmo goes this way. High damage = low defenses. Glass cannon builds its an example.

No you are wrong. In gw2 high damage doesn’t mean you can’t mitigate damage.
The problem is that our class mechanic doesn’t scale with an increasing number of opponents. Other classes however work with a lot of boon access, like aegis: works against 100000 attacks as long as it’s up. Or stealth: you are invisible to every enemy.
Our defense mechanic, high hp + ds, doesn’t work this way.

And that’s why you can’t make the comparison or make a general statement like: high damage – low defense. That’s just not how gw2 works.

I gotta ask… what is your definition of a hybrid build?
To me it seems like you are just talking about a regular power build that happens to do the occasional burning.
Either way… there is absolutely no reason for a hybrid build not to take Terror if you run Dhuumfire with it.

vicious.5683:

Ofc you can compensate. Is what anet are going to do. They’ll take damage away from terror/Dhuumfire and we’ll give more life force to buff survivability

No, those two are not linked. They will nerf the damage because it’s just too much, regardless they will improve life force regeneration because our survivability is still lacking. This is not a trade. Both changes will happen for their own reasons.

Sithaco.4673:

What’s this whole 30/30/10 build going around? Can someone please explain it to me/how it works and/or provide a link to a build of it? Thanks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Build-30-30-10/

Kravick.4906:

Actually, S/D is one of the better builds to use against necromancers right now. Between the evades, dazes, and blinds, a necro is going to have a very hard time even landing a single mark on them.

Pretty much, yeah.

Since the patch I can handle S/D thieves much better though, with Tainted Shackles and Well of Power breaking stuns now, i’d have to play more matches but I guess this thief build is still the hardest one to beat as a necro.

ProxyDamage.9826:

You made it very clear which of the classes has the upper hand though. This isn’t death match, you get points for objectives not kills, and as you said, despite their “burst”, the necromancer could not kill you except when you kept going back and over commit.

You are forgetting that thieves are known to be a little ocd about unfinished business.

constantLogic.3486:

So what exactly do you suggest then? That we get screwed coming and going?

Ok, let’s put it this way… how would you balance the damage of a necro around being able to handle multiple opponents w/o escape mechanisms?
Make it strong enough to beat 2 opponents? Then you can’t beat 3 and will be twice as strong as a single player from another class. Make it strong anough to beat 3? You won’t be able to escape 5 people or an entire zerg like a thief, but inreturn will be able to basically one-shot a single player.

More damage is not the answer. It has to be balanced around 1v1s.
On the other hand: Survivability has to be increased in a way that you won’t be more powerful in 1v1 encounters, but make it scale to withstand the focus fire of 2+ people.
Scaled healing and lf regen comes to mind…

vicious.5683:

Terror builds can take burning to help with dps if terror damage its not enough. Hybrid/chill and other builds won’t get another source of damage/condi cover if Dhuumfire is nerfed.
So don’t touch Dhuumfire!

Let’s get one thing straight: Hybrids are condition builds in the first place, that are also specced to deal direct damage, not the other way around.
So every (proper) hybrid build has Terror anyway. Terror is present in a lot more builds than Dhuumfire. If Terror gets nerfed to be balanced around the combo with burning then guess what happens… Everyone will have to take Dhuumfire to be viable, which means heavily limiting build diversity.
Ergo: If anything, Dhuum needs to be nerfed or removed alltogether, not Terror.

emon.1863:

So your arguments that there is lack of condition removals just a qq and nothing more!

Many have said it already in this thread: other classes don’t have as effective cleanses as the necro. At some point other classes will get overwhelmed with conditions without being able to do anything about it.

emon.1863:

Since necro cant run away so easily as rest, I find it fair that we have some extra dmg.

To everyone who brings this argument: you can’t compensate your lack of escape mechanisms with increasing the damage output. Those are seperate issues.

constantLogic.3486:

Why should we NOT be able to deal more damage when we have NO escapes?

Because those are two very different issues.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I cast Signet of Undeath on this thread.

nice^^

It’s funny how ~80% of this thread was about increasing survivabilty, yet this hardly changed at all. So I don’t know if it’s appropriate to say " now the necro cuts it".

Azraeel.1238:

Your survivability will lack if you run 30/30/10…. and this is basically your fault.

Like I said, I run a different build.
Also, what are you going to do with “more” survivability anyway? Win 1v2s? nope.

Azraeel.1238:

@flow.6043, what builds were your thief friends playing? If they were playing glass cannon then they deserve what came to them. If they were playing S/D then that would be the worst build EVER against a necromancer! I would love nothing more than any class to stand in front of me and try to melee me, and I’m a powermancer. Have your friends put 30 in shadow arts, pick up D/P or D/D and try to duel you again….

You are underestimating Sword thieves. You need to bring so many stun breaks against those builds that you won’t be left with any aggressive utilities.
Just trust me when I say, I’ve played against some of the very best thieves there are… and they/we tried all kinds of builds against each other in hundreds of duels.

I’m not bashing our class.

But how much enjoying while it lasts can be done when all we do is “win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s”?
Since our suvivability is still lacking (which is an entirely differnet issue btw) I’d rather be an underdog again like we were pre-patch rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

Not just sPvP? It definitely works with all conditions transfered in PvE/WvW. Not sure about the ally cleanse atm though… but my guess would be that it still works as well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Staff-4-bug-stealthnerf-weird-response/

Since this is sPvP only and it wasn’t part of the patch notes, this has to be an unintentional change.

Pendragon.8735:

I’m actually walking down my DPS replacing power with precision, just to get burning to proc reliably, how is that synergy.

Would rather have it be a flat chance, like 25% per attack, similar to how procs on a lot of runes work, or just give it more direct control when you use it, like a trigger off lifeblast, or when you poision something, etc.

I guess that makes sense.

But do you really lose dps?
You won’t have a lower crit chance if you still run 30 in Curses anyway, but if it’s just 20 then you just lose 100 precision. You won’t proc burning significantly less reliable with -5% crit chance if you had ~50% to begin with.
Also, I’m sure you remember all those threads about golden ratio on power vs precision… anyway, the point is you get more direct damage from power so you really don’t lose dps by going into Spite.

Zenith.7301:

You can sidestep it. Have you not WvW’d at all? A person with swiftness can tilt before the homing projectile makes enough of a curve. The same applies to spectral grasp.

Like I said, not possible if you use Doom right before he tries to evade.

Zenith.7301:

Doom is hardly an issue with either healing rain around or a simple switch to water attunement/cleansing wave or a guardian shout with runes or a putrid mark.

Well.. a necro wouldn’t use fear on a player with stability or try to land a condi burst on an ele in water attunement. Also, how are you using Putrid Mark while being feared?

You CAN interrupt Tainted Shackles. It has a cast time. It happens to me all the time as I get caught in a zerg and my foot in the grave stability is immediately stripped.

Trying to disprove my assumption with the example of beeing CCed in a hostile zerg is a rather weak argument.

Zenith.7301:

Torment is a terrible condition. It’s a 3 stack bleed intensity on a 40 sec cd with possible double damage if the opponent keeps moving. You can hit a thief or mesmer or ele with torment, but it won’t cc or punish movement because if they want to disengage they will teleport away or to you and take far less damage than say a warrior or guardian would because they need to move to you.

Even thieves and mesmers have to run, they can’t just move by teleportation only.

Zenith.7301:

3 stacks every 10 seconds would still be pretty bad.

The whole point is a damage reduction. A regular conditionmancer with 1600 condition damage would do about 270/s or double on a moving target, vs 730 with burning.
If you ask me, I’d rather give it just 2 stacks, seeing how you get “only” 3 from DS5 on a 40 sec cd.

Zenith.7301:

And on top of it all you’re screwing necromancers in wvw and pve where their targets may be stationary so their burning gets replaced by a bleed at 75% effectiveness.

Unless you have more people in your party apply burning, because as I said: in groups an intensitiy stacking condition beats a condi that stacks in duration.

Zenith.7301:

Burning on necro is more than fine. The problem on necro is epidemic. Terror chains have significant cooldowns and in group settings are perfectly cleansed if not for epidemic chains.

Epidemic has always been the problem and it needs to be changed.

What? No. And how is this suddenly about Epidemic?
You are saying that the biggest problem is that necros can epidemic a terror chain?

cyst.3108:

Explosive shot.
fires a shot exploding on impact, bleeding foes (it does damage to nearby foes too)

if this isnt a cleave… then whats a cleave o.o

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

By your definition every aoe skill is cleaving, and of those the necro has enough.

Ascii.9726:

• Well of Blood should be changed to a water field.
• Blood Fiend should provide some sort of heal if it is killed before you pop it.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and it would be a real insentive to take Well of Blood instead of Consume in zergs.

Cmon, enough with the Altroll bashing.

I agree with him on this, the necro wasn’t bad before the patch.

Zenith.7301:

Assuming your opponent is a mongoloid and doesn’t dodge/sidestep the garbage dark path or interrupt your DS5 channel.

He can’t sidestep to evade a homing projectile, also since my example included DS5 this would be within 600 range. So the only way to dodge this combo would be dodging Doom, and that is hard because it’s an instant cast skill.

(Is it even possible to interrupt DS5?)

Zenith.7301:

Torment is a terrible condition, why would you subsitute it for burning?

It’s not a terrible condition.
And the whole point is to combine 2 damaging conditions into one, so the combo gets less effective and easier to cleanse.
The same could be achieved by replacing torment with burning on DS5, but that would be way more powerful and kind of defeat the purpose of introducing torment in the first place.

Also, in groups an intensitiy stacking condition beats a condi that stacks in duration.

Zenith.7301:

It would also not affect thieves or mesmers or eles at all since their teleports don’t incur torment.

Why? If you hit them with Tainted Shackles they will get torment, nothing they can do about it. Same for an on crit condition.

Uum… Explosive Shot is not a cleave.

And let’s say a necro opens a fight like this: marks 2-4, DS 5, DS 2, DS 3.
Then your opponent has: bleeding, poison, chill, weakness, burning, torment, fear, immobilized.

yeah, it shouldn’t be just one stack, maybe 2 or 3… anyway, Barbed Precision does a 1sec bleed.

Just to make an extreme example: Rune of the Mad King + Deathly Perception, this would give you a guaranteed 16 stacks of torment on up to 3 enemies. Maybe more if you placed some wells on them before goin into DS.

Blake.2973:

You do know engineers get the same thing as dhummfire as an adept (10 points) trait right ?

But engis don’t have terror and torment, it’s the combination that makes burning so powerful.

The suggestion “torment instead of burning” has been made several times already.

But w/o icd and the 100% chance it would be even stronger than burning, and it would definitely result in maxed out stacks if there are 2 or 3 necros involved.

So imo yes to the change, no to removing the icd.

Palmski.6419:

I’ve said this elsewhere but if the balance problem exists in high level sPVP then fix it there; leave the rest of us alone please. Don’t balance the rest of the game based on a tiny minority of elite players.

Every buff you give to an average player will be amplified in effectiveness for a pro.
So I don’t think you can sepereate balancing for high lvl sPvP and the rest, but I would sure like to hear a suggestion on that, if you could elaborate…

Azraeel.1238:

You say this terror build is OP, yet we don’t have any threads wondering how to defeat a terrormancer, why so?

Just check the sPvP subforum.

Azraeel.1238:

Because the answer is simple, if you have breakstuns/condition removal skills, that build won’t be much of a threat.

If it was that simple there wouldn’t be this much of a commotion over it.

Azraeel.1238:

It is stupid that Anet disregarded the fact that other classes remained strong for so long, yet didn’t give necromancers a chance to last a bit.

Right… because other classes at some point were op for 43 days and 6 hours and 33min, necros should be allowed to be op for the exact same amount of time, for great justice!

Mammoth.1975:

2% of your hp pool every hit. If your hp pool is 20k, it’s ‘healing’ you for 40hp each attack.

*400 hp

Rok.5260:

So I heard that condition is going to get nerfed since Dhuumfire + Terror was supposedly too strong and in return Necromancer survivability is going to get buffed.

I don’t think those two issues are related. Dhuum/Terror is too strong, but survivability needs to be buffed regardless.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jon Sharp did say that they were looking at moving more life force generation to the main-hand weapons and probably off of spectrals (though I feel spectrals should be left alone)

Did he really say that?
Atm spectrals are the most reliable lf generators, so if you don’t have one equipped you’re most likely done if you use it all up before the fight is over. So moving some regen away from those skills might help build diversity.

@ODB: the “should be left alone” part in his statement was refering to the lf regen only, I assume.
CD on Spectral armor… maybe, but don’t expect any more access to stability. The devs already stated in last months SotG (and I agree) that they won’t give the necro the same boon access as eles/guards/engis/… because they want to maintain class diversity. If you want to play a boon heavy class, you just can’t pick the necro.

On topic:
The problem with the class mechanic is that, unlike boons, it doesn’t protect the player against an unlimited amount of opponents. Aegis will block everything, stability will prevent any kind of CC… Death Shroud (or our regular big hp pool) on the other hand doesn’t scale with an increasing amount of opponents.
So imo the only reasonable approach to this issue would be to make all healing and lf regen skills scale in that way, so that as a side affect necros don’t become overpowered in 1v1s.

Mammoth.1975:

So the blind cold and afraid build gets melted in 15s by the ubercrap 30/30/10 played by one of the worst players you have ever seen. GG owning yourself repeatedly in the face.

I laughed so hard at this xD

To be fair, if Tut Tut really just had 0% lf then yeah… kinda hard to battle another necro with 100%.
On the other hand, how can you (Altroll) evaluate Xom’s capabilities as a player if you observed one match that lasted 15 seconds against a build that isn’t made for dueling?
Wouldn’t it have been a lot better (for educational purposes) to fight Xom yourself with a competetive build, like your potentate…?

BondageBill.4021:

flow.6043:

On a side note: why would a power necro pick Dhuumfire instead of Close to Death?

….

Burning with 1000 condition damage will tick for 578 damage. Assuming an 80% duration increase, burning has a duration of 7.2 seconds; in other words, Dhuumfire has an approximate 70% up-time. This would provide an average of 400 DPS over the course of a fight (578 * 0.7).
…

This means that I would need to be doing an average of 4k direct damage DPS in order for CtD to offset Dhuumfire. That output would likely require a zerker power build (which I also run, but there are several pros and cons between the two builds).

In case you didn’t read the very quote you posted from me: power necro… is what I wrote.
So let me crunch some numbers for you this time:
A power build will just have +30% from Spite and 0 condition damage (unless you got some points in Curses). That means Dhuumfire does 5×328=1640 damage every 10 seconds under optimal conditions. So yeah, a power necro will definitely be better off taking Close to Death instead.

BondageBill.4021:

Our current inability to survive any sort of CC train makes me doubt the OP-ness.

That’s an entirely different problem, a very real one at that, but it has nothing to do with the condi pressure that Dhuumfire added to the necros arsenal.

I already wrote this in a different thread, I believe Dhuumfire should do ~2 stacks of torment instead of burning.

drbeat.4912:

xom you talk like you are the best in spvp, but i cant see you under the top 300

On the chance that this post isn’t sarcastic:
1. The same argument was made against AlTroll.
2. If anything, this means that the “bunker” build really is bad, because a non-pro could beat it in 15 seconds.

Btw Xom, I’m sad your epic thread is gone

q1: yes, you can “stack” wells, all the damage and/or utilities will work.
q1.5: yes.
q2: no, always 5.
q2.5: depends on the fight.

Dasboba.1652:

I could see them swapping terror with withering precision. That would put terror in grand master position, and since withering precision is so stupid/useless now who cares if it’s a master trait. Do that and fix the sigil of paralyzation. Then you have a good start at fixing the problem. I just hope they fix the entire mechanic of what a stun actually is. How can you have a stun break work but not have sigil of paralyzation work? I mean it’s either a stun or it’s not.

Fear is a control effect which, like all the others, can be canceled by stun breaks, that is just the name… it has nothing to do with just stuns.

The Sigil of Pralyzation (according to anet) should not work like a +condition duration for fear, that’s why it gets a fix.

But keep in mind, the issue is that burning/terror/bleeding/torment does too much damage… do you think this will change only because your sigil takes away 15% fear duration? This wouldn’t even mean that you lose a tick.

Hurtappl.6405:

just wanted to say im glad you got buffed and you are now a worthy fight.. i still win tho so your not OP yet

glad to hear it… but you just haven’t played a good necro yet :/

vicious.5683:

Blake.2973:

Well, i would like Dhuumfire not be nerfed because of terror !

you are right

burning it’s perfect for some power builds, cause it don’t really needs condition damage to be effective.

Right, the complaints of other players pertaining condition builds should be ignored because burning fits some power builds?
On a side note: why would a power necro pick Dhuumfire instead of Close to Death?

Yendorion.2381:

Actually, Do NOT touch anything! With not even the time for the Meta to adapt and talking already of nerfing, what sheer nonsense!

It’s certainly not nonsense. It’s been a week, “the meta” doesn’t need that long to adept to new builds.

Blaine, I’m with you on this.

lol the axe-scratch-table

love your editing ^^

Nemesis.8593:

Softspoken.2410:

Nemesis.8593:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I realize Weakness got buffed, but didn’t that trait get kind of nerfed? It seemed to me that adding the internal cooldown of 20s really gutted where the trait shined before, which was builds that critted very frequently.

But we have 2 other ways of getting weakness on now…

Actually we have 6 ways in total now: Enfeebling Blood, Weakening Shroud, Corrosive Poison Cloud + transfer, combo with Purtid Mark on poison fields, Withering Precision, Plague Form (Pestilence).

Withering Precision… 5 sec on a 20 sec icd, that is now one of the worst gm traits we have.
Also, weakness is key to attrition? Against multiple opponents it is still rather “weak”… especially if it comes from a trait with a 20 sec icd.

Rennoko.5731:

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

God kitten noobs and their crying about “hey… necromancers fight back now, we want our free kill back wtf”.

Necros have never ever been free kills, for any class. If anyone got that impression he just never fought a good player.

Also, this is the necro forum, we the necro players say that the damage is too much.

Don’t confuse too much damage with slightly over the top. Most agree that one particular combo (30/20/10/x/x) has too much power, and synergizes too well. That is the only scenario where the damage is too much. Break up that trinity of traits, and you solve the problem.

Yeah of course, I was only referring to that trait combo anyway. But seeing how popular it is atm…

Nemesis.8593:

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

God kitten noobs and their crying about “hey… necromancers fight back now, we want our free kill back wtf”.

Necros have never ever been free kills, for any class. If anyone got that impression he just never fought a good player.

Also, this is the necro forum, we the necro players say that the damage is too much.

For PvP or PvE ?… in PvE burning is sort of bleh, only counts if you spread it… and we could spread it even before. Necromancers had AoE burning even before…

In PvP it is strong, really strong… but we are the squishy ones… thief is squishy too but he has stealth, we have nothing. That damage would be OP only if it stays on the target… but we all know that in real PvP scenarios conditions don’t last very long…

PvP.

I’d argue that the squishyness of necros depends on the utilities you run.
@cleansing in real PvP scenarios: if you fight many vs many and players run group cleanses then maybe… but this discussion was about 1v1s anyway, and no class can cleanse burning every 10 seconds on top of bleeding/torment/fear (and maybe chill, poison, weakness, cripple, immobilized).
Like chaplan said in the video, burning takes up another cleansing spot, so when mixed with all the other conditions it simply gets too much.

Nemesis.8593:

God kitten noobs and their crying about “hey… necromancers fight back now, we want our free kill back wtf”.

Necros have never ever been free kills, for any class. If anyone got that impression he just never fought a good player.

Also, this is the necro forum, we the necro players say that the damage is too much.

Cempa.5619:

But the build has 100% fear duration without food and 50% burn duration without food.

??
I only see 6 necro runes and 30 in Spite. So atm it’s 50% fear and 30% burning… right?

Dasboba.1652:

There’s finally a viable roaming build for necros. Anet’s response: Nerf it!

It’s not any more viable for roaming than any pre-patch build, because you will still die if outnumbered.
The only change you get with Dhuum/Terror is that you won’t lose a straight up 1v1, ever! And that’s why it’s op, specifically in the sPvP scene because that’s all about small scale fights.

Cempa.5619:

What do you think of the build I linked? 10 points in staff CD reduction worth or max out curse?

Depends… in zergs the cd on marks will play a much bigger role than Dhuumfire itself.
In 1v1s it won’t matter, depends if you like any of the Curses traits better or not.

Also, definitely take +40% food with Dhuumfire and Terror.

cyst.3108:

3/4 seconds of burn every 10 seconds OMG yeh its OP -.-’’ spirith weapon guardian can Permaburn you alive….

It’s 4 sec base duration +30% from spite. So if you have Dhuum you automatically get 50% burning uptime on your opponent without any +condi duration.

But I guess you’re right, we all know the scary stories of the op gurdian burning…

spoj.9672:

Spite minor traits need to be completely overhauled.

Parasitic Bond is good.

Rennoko.5731:

Don’t really care if they nerf terror (Frankly it would still be good even at the base level without conditions), but that really forces everyone to then build 30/20/10. It is a bad fix, that gives us one option, destroy anyone who hopes to avoid 30 in spite.

Exactly.

I just watched the SotG video. I was really happy that jon sharp added “..same for the necro” when they talked about worriors and said “he doesn’t have the healing and cleansing anyway so why not just go all in, try to get a kill and then go down.” Because that really is what the necro is about without mobility and escapes, and that’s why an all out aggressive 30/30/10 build is more rewarding than trying to somehow increase your sustain, which ultimately will fail anyway in 1v2+.

And that is why this

cyst.3108:

every specialiced build in X thing lacks a lot in x, x, x and x thing

…does not apply. All you can do is more counterpressure, which is too strong atm.

RashanDale.3609:

flow.6043:

In fact, they could replace Dhuumfire with a similar trait that does 1 or 2 stacks of torment instead of burning. Problem solved.

Burning kind of fits into a Power/COnd.duration-traitline because even if not specced for condition, it does fairly high damage.
Torment on the other hand has the lowest base damage of all damaging conditions and in my opinion would be very misplaced in Spite.
So i really hope they dont change it to torment without moving it.

If you’re not specced for conditions you will take Close to Death anyway. On the other hand: there is no reason for condi builds not to take Terror if they have Dhuumfire as well. And that is too strong, not only because of the damage that burning does itself, but it’s an additional condition. Other classes can’t always cleanse every condition on them at once. Many builds on other classes rely on 1 condi removed every X seconds.
So if burning was replaced by torment, it would not only give the much needed damage reduction, but also allow more effective cleanses for other players.

Homonavn.6348:

Also, we don’t want to change the core of necromancer like bleeds, because we dont want to ruin the main builds

How is Terror not the core of all condi builds, just like bleeding??
Many condition builds don’t even use Dhuum, so this would just be a nerf to those builds unless they retrait for burning.

Dhuumfire needs to go, not Terror nerfed.

In fact, they could replace Dhuumfire with a similar trait that does 1 or 2 stacks of torment instead of burning. Problem solved.

Fear always makes foes run away from the caster. It never worked any other way.