Guild Wars 2

So, I tried those runes for a day in WvW and I’d like to post some follow up infos:
they are OOOOOOWW PEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

I tested Spectral Grasp on some npcs earlier so it was really hard to time the interrupt, against players on the other hand it’s an almost guaranteed 5 stacks of confusion because they are mashing buttons all the time.
Warhorn, incredibly strong with this. If you wail into a hostile crowd you just pick one of the confused targets for epidemic and some of them might even end up with 10+ stacks… that last for up to 20 seconds -.-

6th bonus aside, if you don’t use Grasp or warhorn: the 4th bonus is basically another Dhuumfire but with confusion instead of burning.
Dhuumfire’s duration wasn’t cut in half for WvW like it has been for sPvP, so that is still ridiculously strong in combo with Terror. Now you can have 10 sec confusion every 15 sec on top of that, just with the 4th bonus of the rune. Yes, the base duration seems to be 5 seconds but with +40% food and 30 in Spite you’ll have 100% confusion duration.

I believe most Dhuum-Terror necros are running rabid+undead these days, so even if you don’t use warhorn and just go with 5 Perplexity and 1 crest of the rabid: all you lose is 36 toughness and ~50 condition damage.
If you have the gold you’d be a fool not to trade this for for the 4th bonus.

Imo the rune is already overpowered as it is (and I don’t even use Dhuumfire in my build), now imagine fear is changed to work as an interrupt… -_-

I’ve been testing these runes myself now and I can confirm/add several things:

Fear doesn’t interrupt… ever. Apparently the “interrupt” indicator has to pop up, which never happens when you fear people. Not with Reaper’s Mark, Doom, Corruption or downed Fear.

The Flesh Golem Charge: lots of "Interrupt"s but apparently it doesn’t count for you or the rune. Not sure if that’s a bug or not.

I could get the 5 stack interrupt to trigger with Spectral Grasp and Wail of Doom. And with that I could also confirm that there is no icd because all targets I interrupted with warhorn daze got the 5 stacks.

Bottom line imo: the 6th bonus is a serious buff to the warhorn. Spectral Grasp needs godlike timing or luck.
Either way, even if you don’t use the warhorn or Grasp: against other players (in WvW) the 4th bonus alone is a million times better than all the toughnes and the 6th bonus of the Undead runes. For PvE you might be better off sticking with Undead, I suppose.

Interesting…
Does the 6th bonus have an icd? Or is it theoretically possible to land confusion on 5 targets with Reaper’s Mark?
Considering all our sources of fear and warhorn daze, this could add be a nice damage source.
If there’s no icd and it really does give 3 stacks, then a golem charge (no aoe limit) into a hostile zerg could be a confusion bomb, right?
And would downed state fearing someone who’s about to stomp you count as an interrupt, hence giving him 1 (or 3?) stacks of confusion?

I agree on most of what Altroll wrote. But…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

weak in WvW outside of zerging

not true at all.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

no strong single target burst (Wells are a Necro’s strongest burst, and they are stationary, AoE, but still avoidable).

Also not true.
There are lots of ways to burst down single targets as a necro, not just power builds with wells. Laying down Well of Suffering will increase your burst damage regardless of the build, but that’s not all there’s to it.

One more thing:
In WvW the biggest difference besides the support role in a zerg is this: as an ele you can suvive longer (or indefinitely) against weaker players than yourself. The necro can’t, either you finish the fight early or you’ll be worn down eventually.
However, on equal skill necros are stronger than eles. In 1v1 encounters, even if the ele tries to counterbuild, the necro holds the stronger cards. Doesn’t matter if you play conditions or power… if both players are on a high skill lvl the necro will likely be the winner of a duel.

I didn’t know there were different opinions on the matter.
The cap is 100% for all conditions, always has been.
There are some ways to modify the base duration of certain skills like Lingering Curse which makes it possible to increase scepter’s base durations by up to 166%, but those are really the exception to the rule.

Most efficient bleeding duration: for PvE it doesn’t hurt to get as much as possible because npcs don’t cleanse. In PvP, bleeds rarely ever run their full duration because our bleeds are rather long to begin with. Try to get a lot of condition duration to increase fear, chill, weakness etc, but extending bleeds beyond that is usually not advisable.

Ironically the one second of stability was added as a CC protection during the cast time of the well… so it cant be interrupted :/
However, if I start casting the well and then realize that I need to dodge a huge incoming attack I’m faced with the decision to either waste my well or take a gigantic hit.
So sure, the skill mechanic might work as intended but wasting the well doesn’t seem like an intended possible result of the skill’s design.

So I know this might not be a bug because as a stun break it’s instant cast… but if I cancel the well it goes on full cooldown (like marks). All I get is the 1 sec of stability.
I suppose the same happens when someone interrupts the cast by instantly corrupting/stripping stabilty.

Is this working as intended? Or should the cast time for the well just be changed to instant too?

I would agree… if our heals really could be trippled in effectivness (which they can’t).
And Full of Life :/
As if 5 seconds of regen would make a big difference.

This is all situational btw, I could also tell you a hundred stories how I lost to someone because I didn’t have enough vitality… doesn’t mean anything.

Back on topic: healing doesn’t scale if you take condition damage, because it isn’t mitigated by anything. As simple as that.
Healing with toughness is only “more effective” because you take less direct damage in the first place. The size of your hp pool is irrelevant to that, triggering certain traits is an entirely different matter.

I was especially referring to the part you bolded. That is just not true, your heals are not more effective.

Rabid and Carrion take 10k in conditions. That’s 55% hp lost for rabid and you’re left with 8k hp. 40% lost with carrion, 15k hp left.
So after that you have almost double the amount of health with carrion. If you heal back 6k with Consume: 14k rabid (78%), 21k carrion (84%).

And your cleric’s vs soldier’s example… they both have the same amount of toughness, the exact same amount of damage mitigation. How on earth would the extra healing power on cleric’s have made a difference? Considering how bad healing power interacts with our heals, you would have had to use Consume Conditions a million times before you could catch up to those 6440 extra hp you get from soldier’s.
Besides, there could have been many other reasons why you lost that fight…

spoj.9672:

Toughness does help you with condition damage. It might not mitigate the damage, but your heals will heal back the health lost much more efficiently.

No, toughness doesn’t help at all with condition damage.

spoj.9672:

Using condition damage as a reason to take vitality is a poor arguement unless we had a very low base hp pool.

It is not poor at all. Conditions are huge in any pvp environment, ignoring that on the basis that our hp pool is big to begin with is just wrong.

Alrighty, here’s another video.
I put some clips together that I recorded yesterday. Please excuse the qualitiy but that’s what I’m stuck with for now. Should there be a next one then I’ll definitely put more effort and time into it (and music…).

I chose outnumbered fights that I lost just to demonstrate what the limits of my build are. Keep in mind I didn’t have my hydromancy staff equipped except for the third fight and I never had any kill stacks… so damage could have been higher every time. Also I made some mistakes that might have cost me the win sometimes… but whatever.

EDIT: moved the video link up to the guide.

Blaine Tog.8304:

flow.6043:

I don’t know why Blaine always uses an extra 33% damage mitigation for rabid, that amount is false.

My math is in the first post, and I came up with a difference of 33% between a Carrion amulet and a Rabid amulet for a Necro with 10 points in Death. If I made an error, please show me where. I’m trying to be as analytical as possible here so any math errors we can uncover will help in that goal immensely.

Tbh I always used build calculators to determine EHP and damage reduction. But assuming that they calculated correctly: 10 points in Death Magic w/o any additional toughness means 5,17% damage reduction. In sPvP a pure rabid amulet (+644) will total 1660 toughness, according to the calculator that gives you 28,8% damage reduction. So without any toughness from runes, 10 in DM and the only difference being the amulett: 23,6% more damage reduction for rabid, not 33%.
That means: 23664 EHP for rabid, 26094 EHP for carrion (10% higher, not just 2%)… if you only take direct damage, which absolutely never happens in a pvp environment.
Extreme example: a necro can fear/burn lock you into taking 5-10k damage in conditions, claiming that our cleanses are effective and conditions are therefore negligable is basically pretending that this damage is mitigated by armor…
So the EHP of carrion is actually a lot higher if you take conditions into cosideration as well. But for direct damage only: Rabid has a lower EHP and 1 main heal doesn’t put it ahead of carrion, which means the more lf you can generate (which is alot more reliable than healing your regular hp pool) the further ahead you’ll be with carrion.

spoj.9672:

If you take damage on your base hp your going to need to heal it back up, but if youve stacked vitality your heal skill is gonna heal you for a lower percentage of your hp. You will get slowly warn down because you cant sustain your main hp pool properly.

Like I said, an extra 1,5 k effective health per main heal on a 18k (rather than a 25k pool to begin with) doesn’t prevent you from getting warn down eventually.
Our heals are just incredibly ineffective, period.
Lf regen is a better way of sustaining hitpoints than having a high amount of toughness and bank on a slightly better heal every 25 seconds.

I know what spoj meant to say, but vitality EHP is higher than the one you get with the same amount of toughness.

Also, your example

Mammoth.1975:

Say you FoC 3 times on recharge, that’s a 2640 gain for toughness, and a 2679 gain for vitality. In the same amount of time you can CC once for around 6k for vitality, and 8k for toughness. Even if you’re spamming staff1 for some reason, and consistently hitting 3 targets, the difference is still outdone by a single heal.

I don’t know why Blaine always uses an extra 33% damage mitigation for rabid, that amount is false. The difference is about 8-10% less depending on the build. Worst case scenario: 25%. That means a 6k heal on carrion without any toughness at all is worth 7,5k with rabid relative to the total hp pool.

Anyway, you assume that your lf regen is the worst possible. First of all: Necrotic grasp can hit up to 5 targets. You could also have Spectral skills equipped. Dagger main, Locust Swarm, Ghastly Claws.. maybe even traited for lower cds.
It is circumstantial but theoretically you can max out your lf bar many times over by the time you get to use one measly 6-8k heal to your regular hp pool.

And let’s not forget that there are also conditions, which ignore armor completely.

spoj.9672:

Effective healing is way more important than effective health points.

Exactly… vitality makes life force regen more effective.
Life force can be regenerated more reliably than our regular hp pool can be healed, also our lf pool is now 120%. Clearly you can generate more hitpoints with vitality instead of toughness, and by that I mean more than armor could mitigate without extra vitality.

It doesn’t… but that has nothing to do with lf regen giving you more hit points in shroud if you have more vitality.

I see where you’re going with this, but toughness isn’t overshadowing vitality to the point that you can take more hits without healing. In fact, with vitality alone you have a higher EHP, therefore healing in and out of DS is relevant.

I believe you are making a deductive error, spoj.
If you promote toughness to be better because heals are more effective, then vitality makes lf regen for your lf pool more effective because it’s percentage based… simple as that.

Like I said in the other thread:
If you have 0% with carrion you can’t have 33% with rabid in the same build, and vice versa.
If you have 33% with rabid, then you have 10% with carrion. 0% carrion, 25% rabid.

Oh yes, I’ve had so many mini heart attacks because my mates were down to ~1 hp… and then miraculously healing 20k hp the next moment -.-
This really needs a change.

It’s not just hammer warriors.
I met one last week in WvW and had a couple of duels with him. He told me the weapon combo to have atm was mace/shield, although he was using GS + mace/sword. He said with the Sigil of Paralyzation he could do 4 seconds of stun every 7 seconds!
I know a really good thief and mesmer who also had a go at him. Thief: no chance. Mesmer: would have almost died if the warrior didn’t pull the aggro of an npc during the fight.
Against me: I always had Corrupt Boon and Well of Power, the third one was Well of Corruption most times but I also tried with another stun break instead. Since the warrior was having stability on him most of the time the well was just more effective so I could keep my distance with CCs of my own rather than letting him stun me and then using a stun break.
With this setup the outcome of the battle was really determined by the amount of life force I had at the start. Sometimes he depleted my pool completely so for the next match I desummoned my two fiends for 20% lf… that was not enough. 50-100% on the other hand let me absorb at least one additional burst, which gave me the edge.

Warriors got a lot of stun buffs with the last patch and imo this was very necessary. At least now they stand a chance, before they just couldn’t land their damage on other players.

Popular… yes, definitely.

Blaine, a nice read indeed.
Two flaws though:
1. Necrotic Grasp can hit up to 5 targets.
2. 30/30/10 means you need to add an extra 5% to carrion’s damage mitigation, 7,5% if you use undead runes.
And the 33% for rabid are only possible in PvE/WvW, in fact you’ll get 32% with full rabid gear (ascended trinkets) undead runes and 10 in Death Magic.
The 644 toughness from a PvP amulet and 10 in DM will give you 29%, if you add undead runes: 30%.
So the difference is really 23-24% in a 30/30/10 build rather than 33%.

On a side note, the actual selling point for carrion is power>precision for direct damage. If you go 30 in Spite for Dhuumfire then imo rabid’s reliable procs surpass the damage output of pure carrion (pre-nerf for sPvP that is..).

Every untargeted attack will hit stealthed units.
Dark Path is untargeted too btw, it teleports you to the first target it hits, not necessarily the one you aimed at. Plus, the projectile is homing as long as you had a target selected at the end of the casting animation, therefore it will follow a thief even if he’s in stealth.

sorrow.2364:

I did not discounted LF regain. You can’t gain Life Force while in Death Shroud except for Life Transfer, which is marginal anyway, so it doesn’t make sense to consider also LF gain since it does not contribute to sustaining.

Spectral Walk/Armor/Grasp, Locust Swarm, someone dies while you’re in DS…
Also, why would you assume that lf regen is irrelevant when outside of DS?

If you’re playing an arranged duel in WvW you don’t stomp your opponent.

What I was implying with “Life Blast > Life Transfer” was that the damage is higher, that’s all. And seeing how he didn’t need to preserve lf during the fight this would have been the better choice.
Also, I’m not saying SoS is bad, but I would have definitely taken Corrupt Boon and rather dropped the Signet than Grasp or the stun break.

Keep in mind, default mark size has been increased to 180 and Greater Marks was moved to master tier.

sorrow.2364:

The fact that you need to heal several times, I’d like to see the topic with that reference. As far I know, one heal might be enough to overtake vitality, especially if that heal is consume conditions.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Runes-for-Condition-Necro/page/2

This was the last “big one” on this topic, I think. Lots of math and everything…

sorrow.2364:

Carrion is +6.440 HP, which means overall 24,812 EHP.
Rabid is +644 toughness, which means 35% extra damage reduction for overall 24,802 EHP.

This assumption is wrong.
In sPvP, depending on the type of runes you are using and how many points you invest into Death Magic: you’ll have between 26% and 35% damage reduction with a rabid amulet, and 0-18% for carrion.
So the difference is somewhere between 17-26%. In your example: 35% damage reduction for rabid means 24k ehp, carrion with 18% dmg reduction: 29k ehp. So in that case you’ll need 3 heals to overtake carrion if you only take direct damage and don’t use Death Shroud.

Putrid Mark has 2 finishers, placement and activation. The combo from placing the mark is always delayed until the mark is actually triggered (which is why you get a double combo every time), but sometimes the indicator icon shows up too early… don’t know why, seems to be random.

I dare say, necro is the strongest duelling class in WvW atm.

Anyway, few thing that come to mind when watching your video:
- eat food.
- I would use Corrupt Boon instead of Signet of Spite
- Life Blast > Life Transfer against single targets.

…and on a side note: you could have played a lot more aggressively, it almost looks like you’re going easy on that poor warrior xD

sorrow.2364:

Actually, having more natual HP means that you are less in need of stacking vitality.

This might be true for other classes, but the necro’s high hp pool is the only defense we have.

There have been so many threads on this topic already… the bottom line is: you need to heal several times until rabid overtakes carrion in effective health, and that is assuming that you take direct damage only. When taking condition damage carrion is a lot further in the lead. And then there’s the much higher direct damage with carrion.

It really comes down to if you need on crit effects. I made the switch to rabid last month because Dhuumfire was triggered more reliably. Now the duration is cut in half so I’m back to carrion w/o burning, kthxbye (and good riddance).

Alright, here’s a short sample against npcs to illustrate how I stack conditions and set up my burst:

I’ll try to gather more video material to showcase proper fights against other players, but for now I hope this gives some insight into what can be done with this build potentially.

EDIT: moved the video link up to the guide.

Necros weren’t inferior to thieves before and now after all the buffs we got the odds are very much stacked in our favor.
Dhuumfire is easy-mode against thieves.
Add the doubled life force pool we got last week and the battle is yours to lose if you go in with full lf.

@Axle:

I use this build for solo roaming mostly. I’ll sometimes help out my zerg but for the most part my build serves to be most effective in small scale fights and duels.

The biggest issue if you’re spending your time in zergs will be the Runes of the Mad King. Condition/bleeding duration isn’t that effective in large battles and the 6th bonus (call ravens) can trigger 48x retaliation on yourself if you’re unlucky… which can cut your precious necro hp in half.
Also, when you’re running plague all the time then you’ll trigger it a lot less often than with the Flesh Golem.

Don’t be discouraged to try the runes, but for zerg-only players it might not be the best choice… just a heads up.

@HiSaZuL:

It might look similar to a standard condition build, but the “odd/not optimal/debatable choices” make the play style very different.
Also, keep in mind that my conversation with Andele is 3 months old. A lot has changed since then, so 20 in Spite seems a lot more usual for condi builds today than it used to before the June balance patch.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Anyway… as far as conditions go… staff alone is not enough.

True. But I also have Death Shroud and Corruption skills… believe me, it’s a proper condition build except my conditions tick a little lower with some soldier gear in the mix.

HiSaZuL.2843:

It will never stack bleeds fast enough to compensate for cleanses/fall offs and definitely will never beat a zergs aoe condition cleansing.

Which is why pure rabid scepter-necros are worse off in zergs than I am.

Tobbygnome.6793:

The old marks were 120, the traited are 240, 180 is half way between them, so they are indeed much larger, they are in fact 50% larger.

120 → 180 radius: +125% surface area
120 → 240: +300%
180 → 240: +78%

sorrow.2364:

Ascii.9726:

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you.

There’s nothing to discuss if you don’t even take into consideration or think about what I say.

Ascii really is one of the most experienced wvw necro players. There’s no doubt in my mind that his build is exactly what it needs to be for the purposes of his playstyle.

Btw check out the BoC Podcast with Ascii, in case you havn’t already…

Rmpz.7031:

I know the post is pretty old but, any chance for a gameplay video of you using this build in www, I’m not sure what to lvl for my 2nd alt to 80 and I would love to see how this build in action

There might be a chance. It’s not very high on my priority list though.
I just couldn’t motivate myself enough to do it in the last couple of months… but another players request might push me to finally make one

Rmpz.7031:

Or do you have known any videos already existing that use a similar build?

For all I know this build is quite unique among wvw necros, there might be a few people using it but I’m not aware of any video footage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zikory.6871:

But with torment do you think it would be worthy of being a Grandmaster trait?

Depends how many stacks, really. 5 stacks, I would say yes. 2? Not so much.

There must have been at least 10 threads advocating torment as a replacement for burning.

In a full condition build torment on a moving target will do about 25% damage of burning. So if duration and proc chance are the same then either 2 or 3 stacks are appropriate.

Tobbygnome.6793:

As far as my testing shows, the middle of Putrid Mark must be inside the combo field for it to blast.

Correct.
Also, the combo will trigger on the entire blast finisher area, not just the overlapping one. That means you can combo finish on targets that are standing outside of combo fields as well.

Pendragon.8735:

Just like now after they just nerfed Terror because of dumbfire…

and that changed nothing btw, regarding a 30/20 build that is.

Everyone was complaining about condition pressure, the difficulties of cleansing etc.
No one ever said “if only that combo did 300-ish damage per tick less!”

That nerf isn’t really a big deal even for non-dhuum builds, so that just makes me wonder even more what the reasoning behind this change was…

Andele is right, the hand gesture is a clear give away.

Let me guess: this suggestion came from the sPvP section…?
Lately there’s so much weird stuff coming from that subforum, of course mostly from people who don’t even play necro.

On a side note

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

With the recent improvements to Dark Path (doubled the range)

Dark Path wasn’t doubled in range.

07/09:
Dark Path: This skill will now cause the necromancer to shadowstep the full 1200-unit distance when hitting at max range.

07/23:
Dark Path: Fixed an issue that caused this skill to strike enemies further than 1200 distance away.

Before that the Dark Path hand would fly like ~2k range but only teleport you up to 1200.
With the 07/09 patch our teleport range was actually buffed to teleport us even further than 1200 (apparently anet wasn’t aware that the teleport range was fine up until then).
So now it was nerfed back to 1200, both for the hand and the shadowstep.

Wikipedia notes for Dark Path still include the pre-july info:
“The projectile can hit from a longer range than indicated. However, if cast from longer range, it will not track and you will not fully teleport to the target.”

Kharr.5746:

lettucemode.3789:

Mister Mustard.7203:

I had just came across this same idea after realizing my current runes were terrible (a hodgepodge of the cheapest-thing-I-could-find).

So, I logged in to check and Pack runes are ~1g10s atm, which was considerably more than I was hoping for =\

I blame this thread for a sudden increase in demand.

Plot twist: I bought out the entire supply below 1.1g before posting this thread! Bwahaha!

Sounds like someone is trying to make a bunch of gold by exploiting the forums.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24702

Prices for this rune have been pretty much the same since november. Apparently it’s a popular rune in general, a 3h old necro thread won’t have much of an impact

I’m pretty sure your build is outdated. Care to post it?

Regardless of the build, Life Blast does more single target damage than Life Transfer.

Those changes make no sense at all.

Last patch everyone complained that necros turned into squishy dps machines.
The fix: sustain nerfed! -_-

This patch suxs monkey balls

Blackmoa.3186:

necro is simpyl broken and op atm, everyone who denies that is eitehr bad or in denial.

Lol I didn’t want to use that tone because I don’t have the pvp rank to back it up.
But there you go, Blackmoa has spoken. xD

vicious.5683:

Roe.3679:

If you factor in normal condition duration, terror will tick for a total of 2600 damage (2 ticks) Dhuumfire will tick for about 3700 (5 ticks).

In terms of bursting, remember you can chain fear, getting bigger numbers from terror in shorter amounts of time. And those 5 ticks don’t hit that harder, I’d say the damage for those 5 ticks its around 3200. Fear can hit for around 5000 in the same 5 secs if you chain it, something very easy to accomplish

1300 damage per fear tick with the 50% bonus means you have about 1700 condition damage (1682 to be precise).
That means burning will tick with 748/s, so Dhuumfire will do at least 3740 damage.

And btw no, it’s not that easy to land a 5 sec fear chain on another player. And even if you do, you just put all your sources for fear on cooldown. Dhuumfire on the other hand is ready every 10 seconds.

So objectively… saying one is more powerful than the other is situational at best.
But if you look at the damage output alone then Dhuumfire is stronger.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Rfreak.6591:

Now the necro… the necromancer can literally auto-spam plenty of stacks of bleeds in a matter of seconds, thanks to its very short cast-time it’s very fast but that’s not everything, have you guys ever noticed it’s… the ONLY ranged weapon in game that doesn’t have PROJECTILES? and is thus not counterable by positioning and reflections?

Elementalist Scepter in Fire and Air.

Mesmer Greatsword.

Necro Axe and Trident.

I think that’s it. Also, you can still counter with with blocks and breaking line of sight.

I believe by “ranged” he meant 1200, with the extra mark radius you actually get 1440.
Also, marks don’t require line of sight.

Rfreak.6591:

“Why?”, because that means devs made a mistake, admitting it and revamping a skill that cost money to be made (twice)?

The financial investment (of copy pasting an engi trait…?) shouldn’t factor into the decision of whether or not to keep it.
If it was a mistake then it needs to go, that’s all.

Rfreak.6591:

And because that burn was definitely needed for condition builds?

No, it definitely wasn’t.

Rfreak.6591:

Also, nerfing terror means nerfing power builds relying on fear, which is definitely NOT what devs or players want.

I can’t imagine a powerbuild profiting more from Terror than Close to Death or Deathly Perception.
Anyway, I’m all for leaving Terror as it is…

Rfreak.6591:

necros were more than viable already honestly and not taking burn in a condition build is like… I dunno like hamburgers without cheese?

In that metaphor Terror would be the patty.

Rfreak.6591:

And removing dhuumfire right after being implemented in the game is impossible, devs would never allow such a thing.

Why?

Rfreak.6591:

Also I don’t rely on Terror, it simply compliments the usage of fear to lock down low-healthed opponents, for short a Terror nerf wouldn’t truly hurt the build to bring it down to normal levels.

I’ll just say it again… as long as burning is there you still have that extra damaging condition condition. It takes up one more cleansing spot, this does not only make the whole combo stronger but every condition that other classes can’t clear at once.
Nerfing Terror damage or reducing burning duration wouldn’t change that.
If the damage is reduced drastically enough to balance this specific combo then builds that don’t use both are going to be too weak.

This on the other hand will work:

Azraeel.1238:

In fact, I bet if they remove Dhuumfire, more than half of the people will stop complaining.