Guild Wars 2

IrisTheCasual.3742:

Rising Dusk.2408:

If you want to argue about it, take it to the Mesmer forums.

Lol, since when people get to decide who can post here and what can be discussed?

Getting shot down in 2 forums is better than 1

:D

Last time I checked staff did bounce 1 extra time as expected

Greatsword. Just pulling that out in a dungeon run is enough for a kick.

Seems like for a short period right after opening the portal, travel has no ICD. Too easy to accidentally get ported back because you mashed the F key twice…

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1usxh5vuDFc

Or is it just me?

Worst elitist pug? Probably me… either have +0 vit or I probably won’t get off your back grumping about your non-meta gear XD

Yes. However, damage is calculated server side so there is no guarantee that the values we extract are ones used for calc, not just a rounded representation.

EDIT: I may have spoke too soon. Precision is available, but not sure about critical chance. Basically this is what I was able to pull out a while back: youtube
I’m sure Critical Chance is there too, but my bet is what you see in Hero panel is the same value I’d pull.

Just get an exotic set and see how it goes.

Xyonon.3987:

But they are o.o I mean lupi drops below 50% sometime and then they kick in. Everything is better than a wasted 6th rune slot – even an Opal for raw stats!

Under 50%, yep they are better for sure, but for that nuke right after 75%…

It may be a personal preference but I’m simply not a huge big of constantly going over 100% crit with a$$/eagles setup. With Scholars that’s not an issue anymore. I’ve been running Scholars ever since Rangers got nerfed and gotta admit, that move did make me a better player too. I now actually can keep my HP at 100% much more often thanks to them forcing me to actually pay more attention to my HP and dmg mitigation during fights ever since then.

So for me, Scholars are better than all runes above 50% HP and are still as good as the Eagles below 50% HP.

Also, another point to consider – Warden doesn’t use any of rune modifiers so this means Eagles will be better than Scholars for Warden every single time. Only if we could re-slot armor mid-fight to min-max the reflects even more… but that would never happen, lol

I now find myself using it almost daily in my dungeon runs, especially in Arah trash runs. Double Veils with PU are amazing for pug carries. Do the whole run without even stopping for stealth, just run through

Xyonon.3987:

Don’t get too insulting, he just didn’t read the first post wich … uhhh … FRI!!! WHY DID YOU NOT READ THE FIRST POST!?!? ò_ó

Yes, I did read the OP and was following new posts here pretty much as soon as they popped up. I just didn’t feel the need to jump in since I haven’t done any post-patch math regarding direct dps and I don’t like rambling about dps without something to backup myself.

Aither.2859:

All I was saying was why Brazil uses ranger runes instead of eagle runes

For a simple fact that he stated, he brings his mes only to nuke lupi. Lupi transitions above 50% so both Rangers and Eagles are equally at that point, which is probably why he just stayed with Rangers as opposed to investing and slotting in Eagles because he already had them. However, you complaining about him recommending Rangers (he didnt) and implying that Eagles are the better option (they aren’t), is exactly what prompted my reply.

Looking at his goal, maximum feedback dmg for lupi, let’s theorycraft the possible scenarios.

Reflecting one Lupine Blast (no food)

• 24,087 dmg – Scholars above 90% HP
• 21,898 dmg – Scholars below 90% HP
• 23,003 dmg – Eagles above 50%
• 24,384 dmg – Eagles below 50%
• 23,003 dmg – Rangers

Reflecting one Lupine Blast (with food)

• 24,544 dmg – Scholars above 90% HP
• 22,312 dmg – Scholars below 90% HP
• 23,153 dmg – Eagles above 50%
• 24,543 dmg – Eagles below 50%
• 23,153 dmg – Rangers

For reflects, Eagles are better than scholars only below 50%, which does not happen at Lupi (he transitions at 75%). As soon as you eat the 100 prec / 70 ferocity food you are now above 100% crit. Granted, a bit above 100% is good against lupi since he’s not lvl 80 but for the rest of the bosses now Scholars caught up and will reflect even better than eagles below 50% HP.

From this it’s pretty clear that if you want to min/max for lupi, or reflects in general, Scholars are the most optimal runes to wear.

Aither.2859:

The DNT build still uses ranger runes and is suggesting it to their viewers post patch. Now wasn’t the ranger runes nerfed when it comes to using minis for the +7% damage output? In fact I am pretty sure that it was proven clones do not give the damage increase either by a user on reddit, I assume that is the reason you suggested eagle runes on your chart. So why is DNT misleading their viewership to still utilize the ranger runes instead of eagle runes?

It’s you misleading yourself. Brazil in his video does NOT recommend ranger runes. He even mentions why he personally equipped Ranger runes but still recommends others to run SCHOLARS instead.

And Eagle runes? Where did that come from??

I don’t think that would prove anything. Ability to identify a mechanic isn’t the same as listing all mobs that use said mechanic. Apples and oranges.

Kordash.2197:

Rather than shouting that “people should know”, screaming, whining, qqing and whatever else (that’s pretty much what you’re doing, it’s rude and doesn’t bring anything good for anyone), teach the people willing to learn will be more beneficial to everyone.

The “pathing” effect is so obvious that anyone who ran dungeons enough should and will notice it, on his own.

Or it could be just me….

tii.7192:

@Frifox
Have you considered Nightmare runes, sigils of Malice/Geomancy, Midnight signet along with duration food and utility gives 95% duration on all conditions (100% on confusion obviously). Throw in signet of Inspiration and you have near permanent 100% on all conditions and still be over 1900 condition damage.
I,m not suggesting its a better PvE solo set up, but its been eating things alive since I,ve been playing around with it.

My main source of dmg is bleeds so it was an obvious choice to buff bleed duration as much as I could, which is where krait runes come in – 45% boost vs. the much smaller 15% overall duration boost from nightmare. Also, the 6th bonus granting a bunch of extra condis when I drop TW is a nice addition to my dps, while the nightmare rune 6th bonus doesn’t really offer anything valuable.

Basically my goal was to cap bleed duration. 45% from krait + 40% from food + 20% from signet = 105% bleed duration, which gets capped to 100%. By reaching 100% with just those 3 means I don’t need sigils like Malice (already at 100%) and can afford sigils like Bursting and Earth for even more bleed stacks/dmg. Usually I stay in staff whole time so Geomancy didn’t make sense, unless you equip 2x staff in which case I don’t know which one is the better choice …

I ran this setup in dungeon last night and I was hovering around ~2500 condi damage. Under ideal conditions I was hovering around 30 to 40 bleed stacks.

That sheet is pre-patch, haven’t bothered updating it post-patch yet… I have some other plans in the works regarding dps estimates

Silverkey.2078:

PS: no math sheets as such, I wrote a dumb program since counting the bleeding stacks was awful.

Bleeds are pain in the kitten , but possible… see columns AQ to BP here: linky

But now with additional possibility of bleeds from the pistol trait… it’s going to be even worse :/

That footnote basically says that a 3-illu shatter will provide same amount of stabo as 0-illu shatter. Unfortunately the trait is in Chaos which means you’ll have to drop one of the dps trait lines, but then if you need utility nobody really cares for your dps…

EDIT: /facepalm. Its PERSONAL stability, not party…

Purple Miku.7032:

One of the biggest differences between guard and mesmer is that guard can provide tons of group-wide stability and blocks whereas mesmer cannot

3x stabo mantra + 4 stabo on each shatter. I’d say that’s enough…

Lomopop.7028:

Mind sharing your build.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;9;9;9;0TUW;0248146056;9;9;0Fy

Staff. Rabid all around. Krait runes and Bursting/Earth sigils. Domination/Midnight signets & Mirror Images. Ether Feast. TW.

If you have blurred inscriptions traited, your healing signet will proc diversion. Apparently that, and maybe few other reason, causes chicken-blocks ALL non insta-cast skills for a short period. Few other skills such as casting signet of illusions on phantasm summon might do the same. It’s annoying as hell…

Also, dodging and evading something while OOC will put you in combat, because now with a trait your evades apply confusion to enemies, and confusion does damage…

Yesterday I solo’d SE p2 on my mes.

Nothing came even close to Staff & Rabid setup. The DPS was awesome (30+ bleeds when in melee with 3 clones) and survivability is insane. Full toughness from Rabid + 3% damage reduction for each clone clone, of which I almost always had 3 up, allowed me to facetank the insane dps pressure from those dredge. Often, I engaged 3+ at once and had no problem surviving.

I tried going with Duelists/Wardens but they couldn’t sustain the pressure and I couldn’t re-summon them fast enough. Things just didn’t work as well as I hoped.

This pretty much confirmed my belief, condi staff is the best (except those niche cases where condi’s just don’t work) for solo pve.

Or use that bottle-of-fire to pre-stack a bunch of fire when tar spawns, and then drop it to avoid burning allies…

Minigrump.4961:

frifox.5283:

Solo’s SEp2 on my mes. Tried giving the path away to guildies, nobody wanted. Posted lfg, nobody joined for like 15 mins…

Ded gaem is dead.

i would have taken it but i was too busy in the fractal that dropped my eleventh kittening fractal speargun

Haha no worries. LFG eventually filled up, oddly enough with 3 people that I know – only 1 pug… XD

Solo’s SEp2 on my mes. Tried giving the path away to guildies, nobody wanted. Posted lfg, nobody joined for like 15 mins…

Ded gaem is dead.

No real math was done for direct dps just yet but for reflect builds yes, assassins is still the meta.

Xyonon.3987:

Metabattle was NEVER good, especially not for mesmers

:(

check the revision history for the meta mes build:

• http://metabattle.com/wiki/index.php?title=Build:Mesmer_-_S/S_/F_/P&action=history

90% of contributors on it are well known mesmers who know what what they’re talking about. Why would it be “not good”?

Silverkey.2078:

I wanted to do these calculations earlier

Last night I updated the attack-rate/coefficient spreadsheet with new data (see my sig). Most phantasms had their attack rates tweaked (swordsman with PH now attacks ~12% faster!). The coefficients however stayed the same for all so there is no changes there except now you have a baseline 15% modifier (tooltip doesn’t account for it).

This evening or sometime tomorrow I’ll take care of the condi part, ie attack rates, coefficients, and applied durations for staff/clones/phantasm. This will come in handy for those “calculations” you mentioned.

Here are a few I ran into while testing last night

• Damage in tooltip for phantasms does not account for the 15% baseline modifier. Damage dealt in combat does properly use the 15% modifier.
• Warden damage is still 2.5% less than what tooltip claims
• Warden seems to use Sword instead of axe. Observed damage spread is 10% (should be 20% for axe) and it stacks Fencers Finesse when attacking (axe wouldn’t proc the trait).
• Mind Spike still doing 10% less damage than what tooltip claims.
• Healing mantra proc’s Harmonius Mantra twice, not once like all other mantras.
• Phantasm summoning right after an effect proc’ed by summoning previous phantasm / using healing signet (not sure which one it is yet) prevents you from summoning that second phantasm for a sec or two.
• Dodging or evading an attack while OOC puts you in combat. I think this could be because of a trait that proc’s on successful evade
• Sometimes swordsman misses his first attack by over/undershooting.

I suggest we first compile a list here in Mesmer subforum where mesmers actually are, and once we get a decent list – post it in the Bugs subforum.

Otherwise it’s a pain going to the bugs subforum solely for checking up on our thread.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_S/S_/F_/P

Ran few dungeons last night tweaking my build and for power dps, those two traits allocations are exactly what I ended up with. Seems the patch pretty much killed off all those niche builds we had before and left us with simple 2 builds…

Silverkey.2078:

How well did the mantra rotation work? Is it easy to keep high “harmonious mantra” up-time? I guess for long boss fight it may be difficult…

Healing mantra gives 2 stacks each, so blow 2 heals (1s cd) and any 1 other, and there you go you now have 5 stacks.

Uptime, not so much. I don’t think they want us to keep high uptime on the modifiers…

What if… the enemy isn’t attackable yet and you need to pre-stack might instead?

SlyDevil.3952:

do we assume that it’s a 1.05 multiplier automatically applied, or they increased the coeff by 5%?

Doesn’t really matter. Resulting multiplier will be the same.

I think I’m going to cry now…

You do realize TW quickness pulses 1s every 1s and using signet of inspiration will duplicate… 1s of quickness?

Leodon.1564:

For instance, will condition duration on conditions I’ve casted dynamically get adjusted if I switch from a weapon set without Malice to a weaponset with Malice? Or is the condition duration calculated upon cast?

Your condition duration will get adjusted when you weaponswap. The applied bleed duration will use the condi duration you had at the time of the cast.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

That’s pretty much the trait setup that I was thinking of. For the reflect build I’d maybe include Illusianory Inspiration. It can be useful for some situations imo

I can see it becoming meta in pugs if your party can’t stack 25 might at the start, or doesn’t have phalanx war. Technically, with that trait you need to blast fire up to 13 stacks and once you cast your phantasm at the start you will double it to 25. I do wonder however, will the trait proc at the start or at the end of the phantasm cast. I’m betting on the end and this will result in a small delay for might doubling – first 1 sec or so where your icebows will be working off only 13 might stacks.

Azure.8670:

So what are we looking at guys?

Sinister weps/trinks/armor
Bursting + earth on staff

I pulled off the most DPS with Malice (10% condi duration) & Agony (20% bleed duration). Other notable boosts were Bursting and Strength, but they weren’t as good as those two above. I haven’t ran any math with Sigil of Earth so no idea how it compares to others.

bladex.9502:

Both eles running signet of air, that’s some proper kittening puglyfe right there

It’s scepter piece collecting part (I think) followed by a trash run, signet of air actually makes a lot of sense.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Timewarp now scales with boon duration and is potentially usable twice with Mimic.

Mimic will affect only utilities, no double casting Elites. You’re probably thinking of F5, which yeah, you will be able to.

It’s hard to elaborate on something not live yet but I’ll go ahead and list a few.

Ability to double-cast utilities with Mimic. Double Portal is a HUGE buff to mesmers, especially those participating in record runs. Previously quite a few record runs had 2x mesmers specifically for double-portal but now post patch 1x mes can the same on his own.

Blowing all mantras for burst +21% dmg modifier opens up new all-or-nothing approach to fb’ing lupi. That, and ability to burst build +ferocity stat with as many Fencers Finesse stacks as you can for that juicy nuke. Before, the same encounter was a simple ‘keep my hp above 90’ and ‘dodge for 3 clones’ which got boring too quickly.

With Harmonious Mantra (the staple of meta builds) out of domination you can now afford to slot in Power Block, since the competing traits are pretty underwhelming. PB locking down key skills for 15 sec is a nice bonus.

Condi cap removal is a godsend and next week you should be able to bring STAFF to dungeons and not feel bad, as long as you min/max gear and build just like you would with zerk setups.

Inspiring Distortion minor will invuln your whole party when you invuln yourself and with PvE being extremely predictable, you will now be able to completely negate those 1-hit-KO spikes for the whole party. This will synergize quite well with Blurred Inscriptions trait as well as with Illusionary Persona finally going baseline. There are also places in dungeons which you can’t reach unless you’re invuln, and Inspiring Distortion will now let you bring the whole party past those “barriers”.

The “3 dimentions of complexity” was mostly referring to Chronomancer F5, which will be quite a beast to juggle when combined with all of the above & Mimic but I’ll leave that for HoT since Chrono isn’t really coming next week.

I like the part where he said “Phantasmal Haste didn’t apply to some phantasms, like the swordsman” (paraphrase, not quote).

1. PH didn’t apply to 1 phantasm, not “some”.
2. It’s warden, not swordsman

Other than that, I’m actually very satisfied with his work. He added like 3 dimensions of complexity to the class, especially in PvE! That is exactly what I wanted, a playstyle or playstyles that are much more involved that the current meta of summon phantasms and hit 11111.

Yeah, both game and forum account are gone. But after preorder, I can use the forums. Also, I now can access my game account through api too but afaik it won’t let me actually play.

I preordered. Apparently that also unlocks your disabled/banned forum account… lol

Hiemdal.4367:

For those running condition heavy builds with the update – what stat set do you see being the most useful? Sinister? Rabid? Rampager (probably overkill with the precision)?

Currently, Rabid delivers more dps than Sinister because of the massive Toughness > Condi Dmg conversion we can achieve with Chaotic Transference trait and the Tuning Crystals. Since both will still be present post-patch, my bet is on Rabid still being the better of the two. This is true for Staff builds only, simply because staff direct dps is just trash.

IMO the condi DPS post patch will heavily depend on whether ANet changed or kept the applied condi stacks/durations for our skills and traits. It would only make sense they’d adjust some with all these changes to conditions.

FrozenChinchilla.5249:

But every dungeon in the game is basically the same. Stack around a corner and mash buttons.

Well, then DON’T stack in the corner and mash buttons. There is no law requiring you to do so.

Sanderinoa.8065:

On another note, frifox, while the shatter sounds really cool and I’d like to try it out, the quickness on interrupt trait doesn’t trigger when the interrupt isnt complete.

Guess it’s been a while since I tried it. Retested it as you’re right, it doesn’t proc. I don’t even get a ‘interrupted’ message pop up anymore as long as there is defiance stacks.

However, it’s till funny that you still can interrupt and proc all on-interrupt goodies with the spiders on west side of Mt Maelstrom simply by auto-attackig them… XD

phys.7689:

interupt heavy things dont impress me for pve, because monsters dont attack often/fast enough to be worthwhile

Currently, effects triggered on interrupt will still happen even if the interruption gets blocked with defiance (at least last time I tested they did). This means, using daze mantra and pistol5/sw4/focus4 can give easy 3s quickness every 5s! Also, interrupt = 3 stacks of vuln, daze = 5 stacks of vuln. While boss is stunned/not using skill you finish him off with Mental Torment and I’m expecting to start seeing insane burst shatters.

EDIT: 3xMW has 2.0 coefficient/entity. At full buffs, thats 12.5k each. With the new MT trait, thats 18.75k/each. With IP being baseline, thats 18.75k x 4, a 75k shatter… ?

Lately I’ve gotten in a habit of exploiting ooc weapon swaps during phantasm casts. The process is, start with sword/sword + focus (or staff if you expect boss to have 4 or more unique condis) and:

- Be in Sw/F
- Start summoning Warden
- Equip Pistol while Warden cast is channeled (double-click Pistol in inventory)
- Summon Duelist
- Swap to Sw/Sw
- Summon Swordman

There ya go, you just summoned 3 phantasms in like 3 sec. Your dps is only 3.7% less than 2xSw + 1xDuelist but you actually reached your peak dps almost instantly and still have the signet of ether available to refresh both the swordsman and the duelist in case they die later on. Or, if you’re so good that your phantasms will stay alive – equip mantra heal for +4% personal dps and a convenient way to keep your scholar bonus up vs small hits.

Moral of the story – if you want to dish out competitive dps in the burst-y nature of the current dungeon meta, you have to exploit.