In all fairness GW2 isn’t an open world. We got square and rectangle zones separated by VERY unrealistic mountains. Exploration is limited and we see less than 10 percent of the actual planet. Some games hide that a lot better than GW2 does… well every MMO I’ve played hides it better than GW2 but that’s another issue.
It reminds me of Warhammer Online, and this was one of the things I liked least about that game.
Exploration in general seems to get the short end of the stick in GW2 – the world is not as fun to explore as Azeroth is (for all the things I hate about WoW, I have to say that their world is huge and can be really fun to solo/explore a couple times).
I think, at least in part, is that the very notion of leveling is something that ruins games like this.
It artificially divides the entire world into ‘leveling zones’ rather than an organic whole.
I would love to see an MMO that finds ways to have progression without character level at all – just completely remove leveling.
GW2 kinda sorta attempts to do this with ‘down leveling’ – that is, leveling up is a way of measuring progress (as easy and trivial as it is), but once you’re there, all enemies become “your level” – except not quite, because gear and stuff everything is actually easier.
It’s kind of a halfkittened way of doing it, but I think that it’s the same idea underneath it as my idea to just completely remove levels altogether.
I just take the next logical step in that direction.
Why bother leveling at all? Just make a world with some really interesting, challenging enemies in it and let people loose on it.
Leveling is an obsolete concept – and a really boring one. Unfortunately, it still shapes our MMO’s.
If it weren’t for leveling we wouldn’t have all these zones divided up – artificially – by ‘levels’ in the first place, would we?
20 new zones.
/15
Archeage was terrible.
Haven’t tried Wildstar, and probably won’t.
Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous look really good, and maybe Limit Theory.
Every weapon skill slot should have 3 options – this should make customizing a particular weapon or weapon set to a specific build much easier.
Oculus Rift will be out soon.
That’s… That’s not a game.
Does it matter?
It’s so mind blowing, people will forget about GW2 (and everything else pre-Oculus) within 6 months.
On a related note, Blizzard announced Titan was cancelled. Shocker.
Oculus Rift will be out soon.
GW2 has roughly 1 year of content in it – 2 if you are obsessed with “completing” everything.
My feeling is that once you reach this point in the game, it’s probably time to move on to another game.
I would love to be wrong, because I would love to see Anet add enough content to keep GW2 fresh much longer than that – it’s the whole reason I bother to play MMO’s at all.
But I don’t expect it – all evidence points to another stale (after 1-2 years) MMO experience.
Game was way overhyped.
It’s still the best MMO on the market, and it has made radical improvements to MMO’s in general – but they didn’t deliver anywhere close to what they promised, hence ‘overhyped’ is not an inaccurate way to describe this game.
Still, if they actually put effort into it, the game could become the game they hyped it to be.
The framework is there – but is the will there?
I like how whenever you speak you speak of an impending doom for GW2 as if it was certain, but never so much as give proof that is factual. Just because you’re unsatisfied with the game doesn’t mean it’s bound for failure. Believe it or not, you are not the be all and end all of gaming.
If by “fresh” you mean adding enough maps/race/class/weapons/skills to be a new campaign and technically a stand alone game then I will say that at that point, that’s no longer GW2 but a new game entirely within the GW2 series.
The overhype you speak of is purely based on opinion. The level of content you count is low because you fail to see some of the contents as contents. You’ve closed your mind to anything that doesn’t sit well with you and thus are blinded to the possibilities.
Your opinion means nothing to me.
GW2 has roughly 1 year of content in it – 2 if you are obsessed with “completing” everything.
My feeling is that once you reach this point in the game, it’s probably time to move on to another game.
I would love to be wrong, because I would love to see Anet add enough content to keep GW2 fresh much longer than that – it’s the whole reason I bother to play MMO’s at all.
But I don’t expect it – all evidence points to another stale (after 1-2 years) MMO experience.
Game was way overhyped.
It’s still the best MMO on the market, and it has made radical improvements to MMO’s in general – but they didn’t deliver anywhere close to what they promised, hence ‘overhyped’ is not an inaccurate way to describe this game.
Still, if they actually put effort into it, the game could become the game they hyped it to be.
The framework is there – but is the will there?
Crouch button.
Better collision mechanics.
Due to the limits in msg. length (could we possibly get a character counter???), I had to edit a lot out of that last reply – including what I believe to be the pros of the combat system:
The pros:
Fluid motion and animation. Basic movement and control over our characters is superb. They go when I tell them to, stop when I tell them to. It’s very responsive and the movement over all feels like it’s based on physics (momentum is handled pretty well, for example when you are moving sideways, or backwards, etc.)
Moving while casting. It’s great that we rarely interrupt ourselves by accidentally pressing a movement key (there are a few skills that still require standing still, and I’d like to see this worked on).
Dodging. This mechanic is awesome – but I think the implementation needs work, and I’ll get to that in a bit. Overall, the addition of dodging is awesome.
Streamlined UI and skillbar. Limited skill availability during combat is awesome – both because my screen is less cluttered, and because I don’t like having 30+ skills to choose from in combat – 10 is perfect. Like dodging, however, I think implementation needs some improvement, which I will get to in a second.
Combat
GW2 started off with a great idea – make MMO combat more action oriented and impactful.
I believe they have made great strides towards this, but I also think there is room for improvement.
Cons:
Tab targeting. GW2 simply doesn’t go far enough in ridding ourselves of conventional MMO combat. They need to drive the final nail in the coffin, and completely remove tab targeting – this would require reworking some skills that currently require a target (Mesmers illusions come to mind, and many projectiles won’t fire correctly without a target), but I think it’s necessary. Yes, it will require some serious rebalancing (particularly with projectile based attacks, as projectiles will no longer follow their target – they will be completely based upon player aiming, and so will have to have CD’s adjusted, for example, just for starters – since far more projectiles are likely to miss).
Lock mouse-look. This kinda goes along with the removal of tab targeting, but locked mouse look needs to be default (pressing a hot key to disengage mouse-look, to interact with the environment). Making locked mouse-look default primes the UI for a tab targeting less combat environment.
Left and right mouse attacks. So, along with the removal of tab targets, and the addition of locked mouse-looking, I think that auto-attacks need to be added to right and left mouse clicks. This makes combat a little more like an FPS. One suggestion I have for this idea is to implement something between an FPS with it’s primary/secondary attack function (right and left mouse) for Skill 1/autoattack and Diablo 3’s Primary/Secondary attack on mouse buttons. This would mean that every main hand weapon set actually has two Skill 1/auto attacks (that are now mapped to right/left click) – each one a little different. Basically, for example, let’s say I have a main hand sword – left click would perform the auto-attack chain we’re used to. Right click might perform a ‘parry’ or something similar instead. Alternatively, right click could be based on off hand weapon, and do something similar (so right click, if I’m wielding a shield, for example, might be a quick block). Two handed weapons, obviously, will have to take into account actions for both buttons.
Generally speaking, fewer and shorter CD’s on Skills. Using a skill should be more about opportunity (every skill more or less useful in situations than others) and less about firing off as many as possible in as little time as possible – this could also mean the removal of CD reduction traits (which are very boring).
More toggle based/activation based skills. Think, for example, about shield blocking. Make it work more like defensive stance on footmen from Warcraft 3 worked – toggling this skill makes you move slower, but increases defense. Get rid of the CD, and simply make it a trade off. In Shield Stance, you give up some movement speed, but you are tougher. Begin making adjustments to lots of skills thinking along these lines. Instead of CD’s, put more alt modes into the skills. Toggle skills.
Out of combat gear swapping. I know that weapon swapping is limited now due to balance – it’s entirely based upon available CD’s. However, could we at least get the ability to swap to new weapon sets (and armor sets) while we’re out of combat? Basically, as I’m adventuring, sometimes I get bored of a particular skill set, and I just want to go forward using something else. I know I can just put the other set in my inventory and swap it out manually, but this entire process could also be automated as well. We need the convenience of being able to switch our entire gear set with a button press, even if it confers no advantage during combat.
PvE – Monsters
Although there are a few examples in the world this does not apply to, generally most monsters in this game run to their target (getting an unrealistic speedboost purely for balance, anti-exploitation reasons) and swing away. Monsters in general need more tactical abilities and smarter AI. I’m largely tired of the idea that bigger health pools and immunity to CC = more challenging. Give monsters more abilities. Along with the other ideas I suggested above, monsters could do some very challenging, interesting things (how about walking on walls/ceilings (spiders), retreating when taking too much damage, taking cover (with the new projectile system I mention above, hiding behind obstacles could reduce damage from projectiles), synergistic skills that work with other nearby monsters. There are too many ideas to list them all, so I’m just trying to spur some imagination here. Get more creative with what monsters can do, and stop MOAR HEALTH MOAR IMMUNITY style design.
Dungeons
Every dungeon ought to be the size of a full map/zone. I liken Divinity’s Reach to the minimum size for the smallest dungeon.
Right now, dungeons are designed the same way as personal story/LS. A cut scene, a linear path, a couple of fights, and then a boss and chest.
What dungeons lack is exploration. Try building some vast underground complexes (think Underworld from GW1). Truly epic sized structures that could take days to fully explore.
Now, these could be made open world (built underneath existing zones/maps) – or they could be instanced – I enjoy both, and don’t really care how this particular aspect works out.
All I care about is the fact that the “exploration” style players have really got the short end of the stick in this game.
So, make dungeons bigger. 10x bigger.
Also, whether you remake old dungeons, or simply add new ones from this point forward isn’t that important to me – as long as there is truly massive dungeons that satisfies the explorer in me, I don’t care how they’r implemented.
Dungeons should be partially soloable – that is, the enemies in them should not have so much health, or 1-shot tactics, that it is nearly impossible for the average player to solo, with persistence and tactics (this doesn’t mean everything should be easy either – simply that the current system of ridiculously large health pools and Defiance/Unshakeable is terrible – design enemies with interesting abilities, not static stats that make them really tough).
Which brings me to the next issue – redesign monsters and encounters. Make them more difficult by giving the access to a larger range of abilities and improve the AI. Stop piling on more health and Defiance/Unshakeable. This is poor craftmanship.
Instead, make them dodge more – or give them timed blocks. Or whatever. Use an interesting array of abilities to make them challenging rather than just making them tougher and/or immune.
Doing so should make dungeons more challenging, more interesting, and more accessible.
Add DE’s to dungeons – same as the open world. Exploring a dungeon shouldn’t be about simply completing one linear objective handed to you from a “quest giver” – it should be about discovering what’s inside the dungeon, and then deciding for yourself whether to take the risk of defeating it.
When dungeons are this large, it becomes possible to partially explore a dungeon, and still get something rewarding from it. That is to say, perhaps I only reached level 15 in Dungeon X (which has 20 levels), and I only defeated the Ogre Warlord in level 15 (which drops his own chest), but if I had made it to level 20 I would have faced the Lich Lord (and been rewarded something even better). Ok, generic examples, but you get my point, right? I can set my own pace, the dungeon has multiple “bosses” and places within it that have their own rewards, and I don’t have to “complete” the whole thing to get something – in fact, the idea of “completion” doesn’t even make sense – the dungeon is explorable, and you get something for each part of it you explore (and defeat it’s defenders).
I’d like to see dungeons that have 10 or more “bosses”…….
Procedural generation
This is experimental, but perhaps you should create a team to start looking into making something like a procedurally generated Fractals of the Mist or something – a Diabl style-esque dungeon (doesn’t have to be incredibly fancy or complex – we’re talking basic D&D style dungeon crawling now, killing skele’s and looting chests). The advantage you get with this is that you have something similar to SAB that can keep quite a few players satisfied with quasi “new” content using randomly generated environments.
Yes, it will be a very basic “dungeon crawling” experience, but the randmoness (and thus unpredictability) of it keeps it feeling somewhat fresh. What this does is it buys your development team time, as players play this arcade style infinite dungeon while you guys are busy creating other content (like massive dungeons and new DE’s and new maps and expansions). It means people will complain less about new content, because they can grind away in the infinite dungeon. Use a dozen or so different environments, and find ways to remix them with each other – look at what Diablo 3 does with Rifts – these are simple ways to make old content feel “new-ish” by remixing and using small amounts of randomization.
Next up: Combat.
Open World
Continue to modify and polish small things around the world. This is actually one of the things Anet does extremely well. I was just in Snowden Drifts the other day, and I noticed that a bridge that had been under construction, seemingly forever, was finally finished. The only suggestion I can make here is perhaps some things should happen faster?
More interactivity. Things like turning torches on and off (something you have to do for certain renown heart quests). Opening and closing doors. Immersive stuff. There is some good stuff in the game – the goal should be to make everything in the game interactive and immersive.
For example, there are many buildings in Divinity’s Reach that are simply deco. Give them doors, and let us enter them (even if they’re empty). Do this for every building in the world (btw, I was very pleasantly surprised to find dead end alley had an instance last time I walked over that direction).
Give every NPC a ‘job’. By ‘job’ I merely mean that everyone should be doing something, not just standing around. Each NPC has a purpose, a reason for being wherever it is they are – even if it’s just watering some plants. Give them simple tasks that they perform repetitively – mopping floors (in taverns), watering plants (near gardens), etc. There are too many listless lollygaggers.
More meaningful day/night cycle and real darkness – and not just in the open air, but inside walls and caves. I’d love to see something similar to Diablo 2’s light radius stat, with real darkness in doors. Rain should reduce lighting as well when you’re outside. Make more lighting sources, and make them a dynamic part of the game (monsters can snuff out lights to make things more dangerous).
Get rid of renown heart quests entirely. Replace them with smaller scale, shorter DE’s (in most places, those DE’s are already there anyway….)
Get rid of the majority of monsters “standing around in a field twiddling their thumbs” – like other NPC’s, all monsters should be doing something for a reason. Like the DE’s, they should actually be doing something, instead of just standing around. Get rid of everything else – increase the XP reward (since there will be fewer).
Add new ‘explorer’ skills or mechanics (these don’t have to be actual “skills” – just the means to do it). Like climbing (ladders, ropes, vines, etc.), mountain goating (perhaps a skill that allows you to climb progressively steeper inclines, decreasing the angle at which your character will slip??), rappelling, rock climbing, etc. Let us climb trees.
Expansion
Release expansion level content – whether this is through an actual expansion, DLC, or through the LS, matters not to me.
Expansion level content:
15-20 new maps.
1 new class.
1 new race.
1 new weapon for each existing class.
A handful of new utility skills for every class.
Armors with new stat combos (Precision/Condition Damage/Healing Power?) – even if you simply reuse old armor models (which doesn’t really matter, since most of us paint over it with skins anyway). Ideally we should have every possible combination of stats available. On a side note, what about Legendary Armor?!!!!
Next up: Dungeons.
I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Megaserver.
Constant twiddling with/recycling of existing content.
Occasional splashes of new content (that at least is no longer quite so temporary).Some might also cite the /e trumpets Return of the CDIs.
Mega server is an efficiency measure. Companies become more efficient whether theyr’e doing well or not. Having a bunch of servers with small numbers of people on them is wasteful.
So, small numbers of people on a server isn’t evidence that of…small numbers of people?
You’re starting to go all 1984 double-speak now.
I think the whole point, is that those servers have small numbers of people because people left the game – they quit.
Thus the megaserver.
The megaserver is evidence that people are leaving the game.
So what’s your point? More whitewashing…….
Enough talk about expansions, they’re not going to do it. And enough about the gem store, it’s crucial to Anet’s cash flow, and it’s not going to change.
I used to be staunchly pro-expansion and anti-gemstore. Now, I’ve realized how ridiculous that was and that’s fine by me. Get over it.
I agree.
It’s time to get over GW2 and move on to another game.
Here’s something every MMO developer needs to learn, understand, and incorporate into their design strategy:
RSA Animate – Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
The above RSA short animation is very telling in both how players play MMO’s, and what dev’s always get wrong.
The takeaway is this: create lots of engaging, fun content for people to play, and they’ll spend money to support your game.
Spend all of your development time trying to tweak your reward system and your revenue system, and people will just grow bored with your game.
There is no replacement for fresh content.
None.
Period.
End of discussion.
If Anet doesn’t release an expansion, then the game is dead.
More than anything else, they need to put out an expansion.
A lot of little things, like the NPE, are usually ignored by the player base if there is fresh content.
That will kill GW2 long before anything else they do.
Vayne
The downside to what you are doing is that you contribute to the feeling that people are not being listened to, that their issues are being dimunized, and you come off as belittling people who have problems with the way the game is being developed.
This means that you are actually increasing the level of vitriol of these posters.
If you enjoy the game so much, and you think it’s doing so wonderfully – then go play it.
Stop spending so much time on forums telling people who have issues with it that they’re wrong – the truth is, Anet can do that themselves.
Are you worried or something about the health of this game? Is that why you are white knighting so much?
You end up ostracizing people who want their issues addressed, and after a time, some people may even begin to associate your opinions with those of Anet – reinforcing the idea that Anet (like you) is out of touch with it’s playerbase.
I’m curious, how do you believe these posts of yours actually aid Anet/GW2 in any way? I don’t believe they do, or at least not as much as you think. An occasional post of course is fine – but you set yourself up, painted yourself into a corner – to the point that some people believe you are an Anet employee.
How is that productive or useful?
I don’t believe it is. I think your constant defending of Anet (and not you alone – most of the other white knights as well) do more harm than good.
Because it looks like whitewashing, and that’s what people will become convinced it is.
Let the game – and Anet – speak for themselves.
White knighting does more harm than good (generally – it’s ok to offer praise once in a while when they do something right – but not what you’re doing currently).
I believe Anet dev’s are being dishonest about the motivations for all the changes, as well.
It’s a cash grab, plain and simple.
R.I.P. GW2
How the heck is it a cash grab?
Is there anything you can buy to eliminate this NPE?
Anything to unlock your skill slots faster or grant you skill points per level like before?
Anything to move up when Personal Story Chapters start?No! So no cash grab.
Some people have try to wedge every change they don’t like into the prism of the “Nexon controlled cash shop” conspiracy theory narrative.
You can buy XP boosts, which will get you through the early leveling experience faster, in the cash shop.
I believe Anet dev’s are being dishonest about the motivations for all the changes, as well.
It’s a cash grab, plain and simple.
R.I.P. GW2
Anet’s biggest problem is they’re wasting time on this stuff instead of putting out new content.
Even the most fanboy players have acknowledged that there has to be something huge going on in the background because of how small the updates are. The amount of content produced just doesn’t match with the amount of people working on the game. It’s only logical to assume something is being worked on. Most seem to think it’s an expansion pack, I can only hope.
I hope so, because if it’s not, then it’s done.
I’m giving Anet until x-mas to release an expansion – then I’m moving on without looking back.
I don’t play nearly as much right now, but with no x-pac (or equivalent level of content) by christmas, there will be plenty other options to choose from.
Star Citizen just released v0.9
Anet’s biggest problem is they’re wasting time on this stuff instead of putting out new content.
Word of mouth from vets gets more players than all of this other NPE kitten.
If you don’t retain old players, you also won’t attract any new players either.
Word of mouth is king.
So, if the vets are unhappy, then you’re doing it wrong.
Still – the NPE isn’t the worst thing, especially 1-15. Past 15, it gets worse. I have a 22 Necro now with a single Utility. It’s annoying. Elites at 40 are annoying too. Personal story lock is annoying.
This isn’t going to work for new players, and it’s not going to work for old players, either.
But – the NPE is actually palatable if there was a bunch of new content coming. I could stomach it (largely because I already have 7 Lvl 80’s, so it largely wouldn’t affect me), but at the end of the day, there still isn’t much new content for this game, after two years.
And that, more than anything else, will kill it.
I guess the life cycle of an MMO is just much faster – like everything else – today.
I didn’t expect GW2 to bomb after just 2 years, but there you have it.
There are already half a dozen new games on the horizon. At least I didn’t pay a sub for this one – I spent maybe about $200 or so, and played for a year – 1K hours.
I wouldn’t say I was “ripped off”, because I got quite a bit of play – I am disappointed to see wasted potential, however. GW2 could have been much greater than it is, if it weren’t being destroyed by corporate culture.
I blame NCSoft.
The reason they had to do this, and this game needed some type if time gating from the beginning, is that people are getting levels up to fast for the amount of content that is in the game. If you remember back at launch the first couple of weeks people were already level 80 and crying that there was nothing more to do.
Maybe the solution is to add more content??? Just a suggestion…..
I had no real problems with the NPE 1-15. 15+ though is a little bit of a drag.
My newly minted Sylvari Necro is 22 now – unfortunately, I have to take the weekend off from gaming to work, but up to this point, this is my assessment:
1-15 is about the same – I primarily level through PoI’s, Vistas, Waypoints and exploration. I completed one heart by accident. The most annoying things were: no skill pts. until level 13 (because I need the XP to level – I had to backtrack through 3 starter zones to get these once I reached lvl 13), and no weapon swapping until 15.
Leveling is so fast at that point, that you don’t really notice anything else.
Now, once I hit 15 things have slowed down a bit. 15-22 the thing I noticed most was only having 1 utility skill – this totally sucks, and should be changed right away.
Revert Elite skill back to 30 too.
I haven’t used a Bow on my Ranger in a long time – might have to pull it out again.
Seems like projectile reflection would help a lot against this.
When games fail to put out new content, then the players move to something that does.
This is a certainty.
It’s debatable whether what Anet has put out for GW2 could be called ‘content’.
Yes, the Living Story was playable content – sort of.
The first season occurred in zones that already existed – so they amounted to a couple of new enemies that suddenly appeared according to scripted events…in zones that were already there.
The Tower of Nightmares got a little more interesting, because it actually changed a zone into something new. This was perhaps the beginning of the best aspect of the Living Story.
I actually like Kessex more now with all the destruction (though, if they do it right, even that should change over time).
And, of course, culminating with the destruction of Lions Arch – which is great, because it changes an otherwise static and boring world (boring only because you’ve seen it a million times).
These sorts of changes don’t come fast enough – that is, they could up the pace on this sort of ‘cataclysmic’ (c wut i dud thar) world changing events, and that would be pretty awesome. Although if they do it wrong (just wantonly destroy a new zone every three months, for no particular reason) it could get stale too….you have to be careful, which is why you have professional writers (are there any left at Anet) build the story for it first.
I wouldn’t mind seeing something akin to LS S1 happen every two (maybe three???) months.
HOWEVER
This should be in addition to opening up at least 1 completely new map every THREE months, OR releasing an expansion that opens up 3-4 new maps EVERY YEAR.
That is new content.
Oh, also a new class once every two years. A new weapon for each class, a handful of new utilities for everyone, and perhaps a new playable race as well (Tengu and Kodan would be perfect right now – would add just the right amount of freshness to the game, and I’d probably buy another character slot or two if they did that).
THAT’S new CONTENT.
How difficult is that to understand for people? Srsly?
That’s what an expansion is. A bunch of new maps, a new class, a new race, some new skills.
It doesn’t get any more straight forward than that, and if Anet isn’t releasing something akin to this, I can promise that tons of people will go looking for it elsewhere.
That’s what people crave, and it’s the REASON why we abandoned our LAST MMO for GW2.
Why did you quite (insert MMO name here _____________) to play GW2? Because you were bored with the lack of new content?
Why is Azeroth like 3 times the size of Tyria, and has MILLIONS of players?
Sure, GW2 hasn’t been out as long, but it HAS been out 2 years, which means it’s time for an EXPANSION.
EXPAND OR DIE
Archeage will be fun for a little while for no other reason that it will be completely new content.
I don’t expect it to be a great game, doubtful I’ll invest in it. But as something to keep me occupied until Star Citizen comes out – sure. It’s a bunch of places I haven’t seen yet, unlike GW2 where I’ve already seen everything, and nothing new is coming any time soon.
To be honest, I’m almost done with every game pre-Oculus Rift – I’m still waiting to see who makes the first Oculus MMO, and even Star Citizen has portions of it’s game already created for the Oculus – over time, they are planning on adding more and more (this is aside from the fact that you can just play a 2D game in the Oculus if you want – they are creating some parts of the game in 3D specifically for that environment).
GW2 had some awesome art, and to an extent a level of world immersion I don’t really see in MMO’s very much.
That’s what I liked about it. There are so many little things, it would be impossible to list them all. Like walking underneath a tree in Lornar’s Pass and having snow fall on your head (and I swear it makes your character slow down for like .2 seconds….or maybe it’s just me). The fact that you can see beneath the surface of the water while you’re swimming. Or the rain.
But, I think they didn’t take that aspect far enough – they tried way too hard to make the game into a theme park, which as we all know, sooner or later just withers away. Yes, you will draw a larger crowd at first to ooh and ahh at your theme park.
But people get bored fast.
I believe that if they had made the world bigger (or were in the process of making it bigger)…and I mean much bigger, like 2-3x it’s current size, and they continued to refine the immersion aspects of the game (there were supposed to be mini games everywhere you go), instead of trimming them back…heck, even the Living Story could be great if the put a little more effort into it.
They just don’t. All I see is minimal effort to string the thing along another day. Another week of lackluster QoL improvements, trickle of content through the Living Story, poor balance changes, little diversity in builds. Abandoning entire aspects of the game, like Dungeons or SAB.
Yeah, Anet just isn’t an awesome game developer.
Or maybe it’s NCSoft that’s forcing them.
At the end of the day, it won’t matter to me, and thousands of others like me, who just want an awesome game to sit down to for a few hours.
Because we’ll be in Archeage. Or Black Desert, or Star Citizen, or EQNext.
Anything with some new content.
I’m giving Anet until X-mas – if there’s no expansion by then, I will be gone forever.
Got to 20 on my new Sylvari Necro.
So, again: 1-15 is about the same as it was before. There’s a couple things locked here and there, but you level so fast it’s irrelevant.
15-20 you start to notice the gating. Only 1 utility skill for now. Just barely unlocked underwater skills and downed skills, which should have been unlocked 5-10 levels ago.
Now, comes the hard part, getting to 40 without ripping my hair out. We’ll see if I can do it – I might give up and uninstall again.
If there’s no expansion by Christmas, I will be gone permanently as well.
2 days ago you said you uninstalled. I thought you quit already.
I did. I reinstalled last night, deleted my 35 Engineer to free up a slot so I could test the NPE. Got my new Sylvari Necro to 15 today – made some posts about it.
Aside from the NPE stuff, I still don’t want to play this game unless there’s going to be more content.
If there’s no expansion by Christmas, I will be gone permanently as well.
1-15 isn’t much of an issue.
Some things, like no weapon swapping until 15 are annoying, or not being able to do Skill Points until 13, but not game breaking.
It’s 15+ where things get really terrible – second utility slot at 24? Third at 35? Elite at 40?
No thanks.
And then there’s the fact that whatever Anet says they are trying to do, could have been done better differently.
Level gating solves nothing. Instead, they should have created more thorough tutorials and tool tips.
The next thing that really bugs me is weapon swapping being locked out until 15.
Again, it’s one of those things that isn’t “that bad” because 15 isn’t hard to get, but is still annoying.
Alright, just hit 15 by doing all PoI’s, Vistas, and Waypoints in Metrica/Caledon/Wayfarer.
Once I hit 13, I backtracked to get all the Skill Points – that brought me up to 15 (along with finishing my monthly).
So, for the 1-15 experience, what I said earlier is still true – the early level gating is not necessary, but it’s also not that bad, simply because you level so fast.
I’d rather see a change that actually makes the experience better though, instead of “oh, at least I won’t be here that long”.
It was ultimately a pointless change.
Not looking forward to the 15-40 climb.
I almost forgot, but the one big issue I did have from 1-10 is the Skill Pt. lock out – as an exploration based player, I actually level all my characters with PoI’s, Vistas, and Skill Points exclusively – I avoid hearts like the plague, as hearts are Anet’s biggest lie. They said they wanted to make a game without traditional questing, that was more dynamic.
Then they added traditional questing.
So, I avoid those like the plague (until I hit 80 and want map completion).
Skill pts. were a big part of filling up my XP bar, and not being able to get them at all slows me down.
And then there’s little annoyances, like not being able to use my Salvage-O-Matikittenil level 15? What’s that about?
After uninstalling I reinstalled so I could actually play through the new player experience, just so I can comment from experience – even though it’s obvious without playing what a terrible, terrible mistake it was.
So far, my new Sylvari Necro is up to Lvl 10.
I don’t think the 1-15 experience is going to be too bad, and so far it really wasn’t. There are a few things that are kind of weird, like not being able to dodge right away, but since leveling is so fast at that stage, it doesn’t make enough difference to be an issue.
My feeling on the 1-15 changes are that they aren’t that bad, but they also aren’t necessary, either. They don’t really help new players, but they’re not much of an inconvenience either.
It’s 15+ that worries me more. The boring, painfully slow grind from 15-80. Getting stuff so slowly.
The other thing that worries is me is how these changes speak of Anet’s underlying philosophy and strategy towards game design. It does not bode well at all for the future of this game.
The changes themselves are indicative of a flawed and toxic design strategy aimed at milking everything they can get out of the cash shop, which will in turn lead to people abandoning the game in droves.
GW2 is now part of the MMO death spiral.
The low level gating stuff is not that bad.
Let’s put it this way – unlocking Skill 2 took killing 2-3 enemies (or so). Now, killing 2-3 enemies (or so) gets you to level 2 (ok, actually, getting to level 2 just requires you finish the opening sequence – which is more like 6 enemies or so). But, more or less the same.
Getting Skill 3 is the same – kill half a dozen enemies, and you’re level 3, and Skill 3 unlocks.
You can’t dodge right away – not that you need to, either under the new system, or the old – because let’s face it, there was nothing challenging before lv 5 anyway. So, you don’t really need it.
However, I did find it strange not having it – it just felt weird.
So, I reinstalled the game just to test out this new leveling system so I could talk about it without resorting to hearsay and second hand knowledge.
I haven’t got very far yet (I had to take a break for rl stuff), but I don’t think it’s going to be lvls 1-10 that are annoying. That stuff goes by far too fast anyway.
But, I’ll also say again that I don’t think it’s necessary either. I played 7 characters to lvl 80, and I figured everything out as I went, without tutorials.
Certainly some really basic tutorials and better tooltips would have sufficed in place of level gating.
The later stuff – lvl 15+ is what I think is going to annoy me the most. Not getting my Elite until lvl 40, and so on.
So far here’s what I think: 1-15 level gating is largely irrelevant, because it took you about the same amount of time to unlock that stuff anyway, and a little sooner or a little later either way doesn’t make a difference.
Later on, pushing back other stuff like traits and elites is really going to make me mad. All of the level gating at 15+ is lame and tedious – and worst of all completely unnecessary, as it won’t even accomplish it’s “intended” purpose of helping out new players. They will be just as confused by these mechanics if they get them now, or if they get them later, so there’s no point.
And, overall my biggest criticism is that this is what Anet spends their time on instead of creating a full expansion.
Game is still not worth spending money on. Not until they make an expansion.
Personally, I would have also said they are pulling a Star Wars Galaxies. There is a great link to the death of that game here…
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/714/gameID/6
Some great quotes from that article. Do they seem familiar to GW2?
“The problem is summed up nicely: Antagonizing your existing playerbase in the hopes of attracting a mythical “audience who doesn’t play, but will once we make these changes” almost never works. The “silent majority” never materializes, and your current base is alienated due to changes that they did not want.”
“While marketing campaigns no doubt contribute some assistance, true marketing comes from word of mouth. The veterans of a game are the ones who bring their friends and family to these games, and in turn they recruit more. You need to retain veterans in order to get them to bring in new customers. The veterans are also those who help out the new players to achieve veteran status themselves. We gamers all have our stories of starting an MMO, being completely lost and clueless, until a veteran came along and provided their insight and wisdom on how to progress in the game. A marketing campaign cannot achieve this, no matter how slick. With substantially fewer veterans to help out new players, their chances of sticking around are reduced, and fewer subscriptions are retained.”
I can easily picture a bunch of suits, who have never played a video game in their life, sitting around a large office table trying to come up with idea’s on how to boost sales. And if you’re not a Yes Man, you loose your job.
We’re already riding the death spiral.
Exactly.
And this is what we’ve been trying to get across to Anet, and they keep temp banning and deleting our threads for it.
You know, I bet the real dev’s are as sad about it as we are, but their hands are tied and they can’t do or say anything about it.
5 years from now we’ll read their true thoughts on the subject in an interview somewhere, but not here, not today.
The leveling isn’t terrible – but it also wasn’t necessary in the first place.
If you want to help new players, level gating isn’t the answer.
Providing better tutorials and tooltips is the answer.
My kittens me off is seeing them spend so much time on this kitten while avoiding more important issues, most of all: putting out fresh new content.
It’s a clear indication of where their priorities lie, and an indicator of how they want to proceed with the game going forward.
Which is to add needed, but ultimately lackluster QoL changes that should simply be patched in every month, and not act like these ‘feature’ packs are a big deal, or a substitute for substantial content, because they’re not.
It’s time for an expansion.
This ‘patch’ isn’t really that noteworthy, it contains a couple good changes, and a few more bad ones, but at the end of the day it’s not content, and that’s the biggest issue.
Whoa.
Game is dying.
Unfortunately for me, and I assume many other players, the leveling system is just too boring. Tutorials have no effect on that. I had to force my way to 80 and I just don’t see how I can do that a second time. Grinding repetitive tasks until a bar slowly fills up, following a wvw zerg for hours, spending your gold powerleveling crafting. I did all these things to get to 80 and it felt like it took forever.
I’ve done it 7 times now – and I know LOTS of people have done it twice as much as that.
You know what they should do?
Remove leveling altogether.
Keep the experience bar, but everyone starts at “80” (just call it zero – or don’t call it anything at all), and just like when you are “80” currently, each “level” (each time you fill the experience bar) you get to CHOOSE a skill point, or a trait point, or unlock something (like a weapon skill).
Basically, every XP bar you fill gives you 1 thing, whether that’s a skill unlock or a point of some sort (trait or skill).
Make all the enemies the same level (which is kinda what happens once you hit 80 anyway, due to ‘downleveling’) just make them easier or harder depending on where they’re found (i.e., later areas with more challenging enemies, earlier areas with less challenging enemies).
There’s really no need for levels at all – it’s an obsolete concept, and a complete waste of time – especially in this game.
We only play to see the content – why gate it behind “levels”? It’s a stupid concept.
Even if new players needed extra help, this is the wrong way to do it, and there’s no reason to force everyone to do it.
No matter how you look at it, it’s a failure.
But you know they’re never going to do that….
They’ll just keep adding more gem store items and dumbing the game down even more….
Even as the game slowly dies….
They won’t listen….
They won’t act….
It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
Corporate culture is ruining games.
Go with independent developers, like CIG and indie games.
The only thing that could bring me back is the announcement of a full expansion (paid or otherwise, I don’t care), that included:
20 new maps/zones
1 new class
1 new race
1 new weapon per class
5+ new utilities per class
1 new WvWvW map (minimum – 5 would be great)
And I want it out by Christmas.
I’ve already uninstalled the game from my computer.
This would be the bare minimum needed to bring me back.
Preparing to have fun.
We know that every decision Anet makes is a money grab – the sad thing is that we also know it won’t work.
Historically, every MMO that goes down this path ends up dying.
In order to make a profitable game, make a great game. Give players a game they want to play, and they will find a way to support it.
Make a game based on the decisions of your corporate accountants, and the game will tank.
Every.
Kitten.
Time.
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Even if Anet is trying to cater to new players, they did a poor job.
Extensive tutorials would have been a far better choice than mere level gating.
This doesn’t help new players at all – maybe it pushes people into the gem store? I’m not sure how though……..
There were times in the story your character would be required to act. Save this person. Save the whatever. Then you find, oh wait…I’m underleveled. I can’t save that person.
I"m literally going to have to stop saving this person, go help a farmer or whatever, level up and THEN go help this person. That to me was far more immersion breaking than doing the entire story segment at one time.
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So what you’re saying is that the XP awards for personal story weren’t high enough?
There’s an incredibly simple fix for this problem: Each chapter of the personal story should award exactly enough experience to bring the character to whatever level the next chapter is supposed to be started at assuming the player began the personal story at Level 1 and continued playing it, uninterrupted all the way through. You might end up higher than recommended level (if you voluntarily stop to do something else), but you would never be underleveled.
That way, you are guaranteed to be the appropriate level, if you are following the personal story exclusively.
Duh.
Alternatively, the PS could auto-level characters (regardless of actual XP earned) to the minimum level for the next chapter.
Problem solved.
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It’s got roughly 1 years worth of novel content, and it looks like no plans to really expand.
I recommend buying just the game – don’t bother with anything in the gem store at all – if you like the look of this game.
The first play through is interesting enough that $60 (or whatever it is on sale) is worth it – you’ll get your 1 years worth of play.
Just don’t think of it as a long term MMO, because Anet has no interest in retaining long term players.
They’re all about grabbing the fast buck.
I think that creating an MMO may be far too confusing for Anet – someone please lock Feature Pack until Anet reaches at least Lv 15 MMO Dev, and build them a tutorial so they don’t get overwhelmed.