Really? I am by no means trying to start a flame war. I have a serious concern with these programs.
Just to add to your edit- I never said that you said that bots should be allowed. It has been stated from people on both sides pro and con on the programs that they could be used to bot the tp. That is a huge concern and it should be for both sides of the argument. If a gold seller can go unnoticed trading on the tp with a program and rake in tons of gold is this not a problem? It may nor may not be happening but it could be. Please understand, because I think you may have misunderstood, I am by no means attacking you in anyway. My issue is with the programs, which I know you are for, but I am not against you.
What lies? And as the thread progressed, as is the case with most discussions, new views and ideas came out. I started by stating that getting text for the tp from an outside program is wrong. Another person stated that they could be used by bots, I agree and it strengthens my case that these programs should not be allowed.
Not referring to any app specifically but just by the comments in this thread you can infer that a bot program for the tp to flip products is possible and at this point not against the rules because it has never been explicitly stated that programs for the tp are not against the rules.
Nothing I said has been a lie btw. I have never named any programs by name at all, I am just pointing out the fact they do exist and they can be used to extremes.
I agree with everything you say. I think that in the end it will have to be addressed by Anet because fact of the matter is, if bots can do it they probably are and it will only spread.
Well if they say “Sure go ahead..” doesn’t that sound like a approval at least at this point in time? If they change their minds later, and they are very much entitled to do that, then we would stop our work. At the meantime, they have not shown any indications that they have disapproved despite what Buttercup said, which was my point all along.
Back in the days of GW1, they took the same stance with a program call Texmod. They declared that they don’t offer any technical support for it but they don’t stop or punish people from using it either. Many Texmod modules have been created for GW1 and distributed freely on the Internet, even on the official wiki.
My point was that a single dev doesnt make official policy and from what I know there has been none, a lack of response is not the same thing as approval. But given their unresponsiveness we at least can go forward until something changes…
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I think you just mentioned in another thread that bots could use these programs to be active in the trading post.. to me that is a huge red flag that they need to be discontinued or altered in some way.
Could someone tell me what the cap is on karma? I had not used jugs just because I was not spending karma and was not sure how much I could hold. Since I have until the 3rd to use consumables I figure I should use them up so would like to know what it can go up to.
No thank you. Some players would have thousands of alerts in game. Plus, the programming and running of such a program in game would eat up valuable resources better used elsewhere.
But for this topic, there is no point to miss. If you’re so concerned about not getting an item, you can camp the TP and refresh all the time. When I’m not PvEing or WvWing, I would sit at the TP and go through listings over and over, esp. on items I really want, but won’t pay full price. I don’t need an outside tool to help me with my bids. In fact, it’s more efficient to camp the TP than to have a text that alerts me of an outbid.
It is actually not more efficient to refresh the tp over an instant text- especially with multiple auctions.
But the notes said it should start in the overflow.. I was under the impression that the notes meant it would start within 10 mins of the overflow being created. Am I reading that wrong?
How does this work exactly? I have yet to see an event start up in overflow after it has started on the home server. Is it a bug or am I missing something? I thought it started after a bit on the overflow.
It use to be that way when you unmarked that box. I am not sure why today it is showing all the names. I noticed that earlier but did not put it together that I had it turned off and now all of a sudden it is showing every name.
I actually have no issue with undercutting and outbidding from players in game. I understand the market and how it works. My whole point was that these programs need to go because they are in fact outside programs that should not have to be used to use the trading post. Anyway this post seems to go no where because the only ones that answer are the ones that use the program and will defend them until the end. I know there are players out there that are unaware or just do not want to join the discussion, but I hope that anet sees the issue and is silently working to correct it.
If you had no text you could be offline when that overbid comes in.. unless you are online 24 hours a day watching. Just saying more people with knowledge could be the solution because enough hands in the pot will ruin it.
I am not sure silence means that it is ok.. maybe they are just not sure how to handle it. I suppose though that if people using these programs had more competition that was aware of them and knew how to use them.. maybe it would be less of an issue- because lets face it there are players that want to learn to flip on the tp everyday and they want to know where to start. I think that a guide for new players would be good.. show them the ropes point them to how to get a text and how to outbid and undercut. Maybe then it would not be such an issue because it would be 100 people getting that text looking to overbid you by 1 copper to flip for profit than 1 person actually trying to buy the freaking item.
When you use dragon timers or wiki does that effect other players though? Do you get a text message when a dragon is up because it is necessary? I realize that if this was to disappear it would cut deep into many pockets.. so I understand the defense. That said I still think that this should be a major issue that is looked into, or does arenanet just expect us to use the outside programs to use their trading post effectively? Was that the plan all along? Why not make a sticky then notifying all the players of these websites they need to sign up for so they can trade- without interfering with their game play, or watching tv, or whatever else they may be doing at the time so they know to log in and adjust their bids.
I agree with buttercup- you should not have to use OUTSIDE tools for something in game. I realize there is nothing that says I have to.. but be real to be competitive or get many items from the trading post you have to at this point.
I thought that programs from 3rd parties where not allowed. Just because it is not combat related I guess they let it slide. I am truly surprised it is allowed.
I am not too worried about it. I would find it odd to throw in a gear set that takes a month or more to make and then just make it worthless. I made the set and am pretty sure I will get use out of it.
Just thinking about it but maybe a good compromise would to be to add a delay to the rate that information from the game is released. A 30 min- 1hour or so delay and then the programs can see the info and text people or whatever.
first of wiki is not a good source to refore to;)
2nd if you look trough the law a monopol is legal heck there are a few in us right now;)
example apple is the only one allowed to make any apple product and sell it so i cant make a iphone and go sell it but that means they have a monopol on iphones but hey thats illegal is it not? nope its not
3th. its illegal to make a monopol by forcing our oppenets out of business but thats a diffrent story and thats not what we are discusing right now.
4th sources are very importent to remember to check: wiki is the worst of the worst to use for source info as anyone can correct/change it as they see fit
Not quite a monopoly description. There are other products similar to an iphone that you can get that are competition. A monopoly is owning the whole market with no alternatives to turn to. Look at phone companies. You have your choice of at least 3 that I can think of- maybe more. If you did not have that choice and there was only 1 provider you could use then that would be a monopoly. Which is why we had a break up of Bell a long long time ago :P
I am not asking for them to be protected lol. I am asking that programs outside of the game used to track the trading post and text people be looked at if not discontinued. If someone wants to log into the game and watch a bid and refresh and post them then by all means do it. If there are multiple people bidding on it then by all means do it, but the use of a program outside of the game should not be allowed.
I will leave it at that. I am not looking to flip anything or am I in a bidding war on any item right now. I am bringing this up because I don’t see how a program that is sending texts based on auction prices is allowed. There may be bots or it could be this texting but more and more people are seeing odd behavior in the tp.
I just don’t think you should be able to use an outside source to monitor the game without actually being logged in and playing. I don’t think that is a far fetched idea.
I don’t see how the price would ever come down on a rare item. If a person never lets another buyer win on a bid and the item is rare enough that there is not a steady flow on the tp then the only person that is truly buying and selling the items is the one that can increase their bid in a minutes notice (without even being in game! Text message alert) of an overbid to keep others out or force them to buy from them. That is going to keep the prices high imo because they have little competition to undercut them on buy now orders and no competition on the buy orders placed. They have essentially locked down the price. Granted there are not a ton of items that this can happen with.. but the ones it can happen with- It is happening.
The only item that I saw weird behavior on was the flame and frost dyes about 3 weeks ago. I posted this under the thread suggesting there are bots in the tp. There was another thread about a precursor and what they observed with the bid offers. I am thinking that it is not bots but in fact flippers that are using the program to ensure they are the only bid that will be filled if a product is flippable. I don’t think that getting a text message and being able to update your bid is good for the game over all. If you want to flip items that is fine, but to be able to not have any competition from other players on bids is controlling the market in a way imo.
For example, lets say there is an item that is rare and sells on a buy out price for 50 gold and the highest bid price is 30 gold. Someone who wants the item may try to put in a buy price to save some gold because that is a significant difference. 1 min later they are outbid. It is very easy to think that ok someone else wants this too. They can then put in another bid and bam in under 1 min they are outbid again. They can try to put in a bid at any time during the day —24 hours a day!- and the person with text message can instantly outbid them with no effort.
The bid is too low you may think- ok well the person who wants the item can get their bid up to 45 gold and it is still cheaper but it will not be over cut because the person overbidding them is a flipper and they want the cheaper item to relist it at 50 for profit. So the person that wanted the item to use paid 15-20 gold more than really necessary because of another person wanting to flip the item and not letting any other bids be above theirs for more than 1 min. Who do you think has items up for sale at the buy now prices? My guess is the person that is outbidding every bid with a text message that makes impossible to beat them.
If you want to flip you should have to spend the time to check your bids.. not get a text message imo. It allows them to respond entirely too quickly to any competition whether it is a person wanting the item or another person trying to flip an item.
I just find it odd that there is a program allowed to notify people not even in game at all hours of the day that their bids have been outbid. It hurts people the most on rare and expensive items that are being used for flipping. If that is how the trading post is suppose to work then I guess good job. Letting someone get a text at 3 am to make sure they are top bid on an item so they can flip it is a bit extreme imo.
You do not understand what I am saying. A person with a text message alert system never allows anyone to outbid them- unless they bid high enough that the item cannot be flipped. They place a new order once their order is filled so they can flip the items again and again. They have a text message anytime they are outbid and log right in and outbid you. So you really cannot just leave your bid there because it will never reach it.
If they had to be logged into the game to see the new bids for themselves then that would give others at least more than 1 min as the top bid, but with the text message they do not have any down time as top bid.
That is the point no one will ever be able to fill it because it will be outbid within a min and once that higher buy order is filled a new one will be placed- that again will be impossible to outbid unless the profit margin is gone. If you want to stay logged in and refresh to bid fine go ahead, but text messaging allows people that are not even playing the game to jump in and outbid you instantly. It does not even give you any chance at being the top bid.
But you can’t outbid him until his profit is gone and they are alerted instantly placing a new bid within under a minute and they can do this all day and all hours because of a text message. You have no chance at all.
Are these really allowed? It allows someone to basically own a market for flipping- especially rare and expensive items. Look at precursors. If you have a buy offer that is lower than the market value but high enough that a flipper would make a profit- they can have a website text them and let them know instantly about your bid. All they have to do then is log right in and out bid you by 1 copper. You will never be top bid as long as a flipper can make a profit on the item because as soon as you put a new bid in they get a text letting them know and boom instantly over bid you. The only way you can ever get the precursor is to buy it right out (probably from them) or put in a buy offer that is significantly higher. I am not sure this is how the market was intended to be. You will never win against this flipper- and if they do get a precursor you think they will not put another bid in?
This is not just for precursors. It is every item in the game. If you want to flip items fine by me, but having a text message to alert you- no that should not be allowed.
I think that it could be these bid notifiers. I have never heard of them. I think though maybe those programs should be looked into because it basically allows people to own a market through flipping. If someone really wants an item they have to cut a person out, who is not even playing at the time, by a huge percentage or else they log right in and outbid them.
I am not against flipping but really, a text anytime you are out bid so you can log in and change your bid so you can flip the item. It seems wrong.
What I witnessed was odd and I am inclined to believe it was not a person.. I could be wrong but I’ll explain what I witnessed about 3 weeks ago.
So on a f&f dye I put in a bid as the highest offer in under a min I was over bid. I put in another bid as the highest and again was out bid in under a min. I figured it was someone else wanting the dye so I backed off and left my bid as 2nd highest for a few hours. I went back after the time had passed and set my bid as highest and again was outbid. It was always by the same amount on the bid. I left it until that night and decided to experiment with the bids. I went up high enough on my bid to cut out the profit on the dye but still considerably cheaper than the dye was listed as. I was not outbid again. I left that for awhile and then decided to come back and lower my price to try to save some gold. Within a min I was outbid again by the same price.
This happened a full day and within in minutes and was the same amount. You really think that was a person? It was so strange I was going to post about it but got side tracked, so I am glad to see this post again to remind me.
I did it on mesmer. I used pistol and had the mantra of distraction and signet of domination on my tool bar as well as blink. Get a phantasm build and get those pistol phantasms going. Stunt the dog as he goes for the meat and run over and grab it- blink when needed. You have 4 stuns on the bar and then also your f3- but try not to use that one since you are killing him with phantasms.
I agree tolunart. Just look at how long it takes to get accessories. I think the thing that will affect this the most is the change to magic find. If people really like it and did not have these before they may want to get them. If it is bad then they may not sell as well. What makes it interesting is the fact that they are account bound so if you want it you have to make it. There have also been posts that for a few classes celestial armor with berserker accessories is better over all- so it is not a bad set.
I found items like this as well. I think that there could very well be scripts. When I first read this post I thought they were crazy.. until you find an item that it happens to you :P I found it with the f&f dyes about 3 weeks ago. All day a price would be instantly placed over mine for the exact same amount until I got too close to the actual list price. I played around with it for a bit.. leaving a bid that would not get out bid and then removing it and lowering- bam instant over bid. It was pretty strange imo.
I do find the crystal intriguing because they did give us that node in our home instance. It is odd. Not odd enough for me to put a ton in but a post telling me surprise got me to buy a few more stacks :P
I still have a claim ticket as well.. I am not sure what I want so just keeping it. They cannot just get rid of the vendor because I am sure there are quite a few just holding on to them.
Full is not accounts only.. it is actual people playing. I think that maybe guesting counts though and that is why you never see them dip down any more. Before guesting you would have a shot early hours.. but you can guest on full servers, so I think that is why they do not dip anymore.
I would get a Sieran mini.