He is saying if we are stuck and can’t carry a team it’s our own fault. And neither of those^ is a reason why he couldn’t do it last season. The bunker meta didn’t start till at least week 3.
“..I played on a viewers account who had a 17 loss streak and had an incredibly easy time winning 8 games in a row.
People seem to really exaggerate their chances in these games. Losing isnt fun, some of these games may be really unfair, but this whole ‘’low mmr players are put in impossible games even though they deserve better’’ is just silly to me. I’m 100% sure that I can play on anyones account and produce identical scores to what I have on this account"
Because the system doesn’t work as intended.
2 dh on point. Spear of justice instadeath full set of traps ready for next victim. Another case where class stacking wins.
Still someone having the same win rate as someone else does not equal same advancement. Unless your wins by chance tend to be more consecutive you won’t get anywhere. That does turn it into a game of luck as opposed to a game of skill.
You have to wake up to the fact this is a game a lot of people play solo. And no matter how much anyone wants them to join a team they aren’t going to. So there’s zero choice but to cater to them. That doesn’t mean don’t cater to pro teams.
I bet none of the people voting for the 50/50 system are eles. Because anet makes them kitten-i-n-g invincible. Nothing to do with skill there.
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You are taking things out of context. The legendary players have all moved on due to the fast tracking this season did for them. So he wouldn’t be playing anyone remotely near his skill level. So having the so-called “greatest player in the universe” on your team helps. So what?
And what were these other issues last season that caused his blowup other than he was not able to carry teams in an equal game? Would that be a full of kitten statement?
There’s a simple way to discredit Helseth’s argument. If it is as possible to carry as he says, why did he have his tantrum last season when the system tried to make the MMR of both team even? He didn’t have to carry a bad team against a good team. He had to carry mediocre teams against mediocre teams and couldn’t kittening do it. Then made the noobiest youtube tantrum ever.
Its’ not worth playing. Anet kitteners made it to much of a grind to bother with it. It was too much of a grind last season too.
Yes. The same works for the other team which can have a higher MMR. And those who benefit from it are like puppies peeing all over themselves with excitement.
Well, I’m not so passionate, since we don’t train or anything. We just turn up and have fun. But while we’re on the court, we do our best to win, regardless of whether our oppenents are top in the league or bottom.
Its possible to be competitive, do everything you can to win, and still have morals. that’s what “sportsmanship” is. On the winners side, you fight hard, don’t cheat, respect your opponent. On the losers side, you try your best, respect your opponent, and accept your defeat graciously.
I guess the reason “true” competitive players keep going even when they’re not the best, is the sense of improvement. In basketball, even though we lose a lot, there are always little victories from each match. The couple of times you got a sweet rebound, the time you faked out your defender and shot a goal, etc etc. As the season goes on, those little victories increase as we get better. (And between seasons we get flabby again because we don’t practice lol)
Does gw2 offer little victories like this in a match? I feel like this might be a problem with the balance and gameplay right now?
Certainly in fighting games, its very satisfying to get a big combo or take control of a round, even if you lose.
Yes exactly. There’s 3 classes that when you pitted in a group fight together they take hardly any damage. You set up an awesome combo that would instantly down other professions and they are still just standing there. None of which are classes I play or the 3 last season (2 of which are the same as this season). They only nerfed mesmers. People complain and they won’t do anything about it. To the point it’s starting to seem intentional. If one team is stacked with these classes and the other isn’t it’s very unbalanced. It’s not reapers. They don’t have much healing so life force doesn’t count for much anymore. Once that’s gone they are down. They are just a distraction from the real gravy train professions. It’s not druids either they have loads of healing but still take damage and don’t do a lot of damage.
When it’s not like that there’s more of those inner pride moments where you have a big impact on the outcome.
Well, it’s an inconvenient (and unspoken) truth that there are players out there who are actually less effective than your average PvP beginner, and will never improve. (It’s not necessarily their “fault” – part of improving effectiveness is getting a team you trust, playing often, using voice comms, etc. Not everyone is able to go to those lengths.)
In a meritocracy-based ladder, we imagine that everyone will improve, and climb over the newer players, finding their place in the middle-upper sections of the ladder somewhere.
But actually, there will be players who are less effective than even the average beginner, who can’t be anything other than the stepping stones for everyone else. Being destined for 100% losses may be a rude shock to some of those players, I guess. (well, except when these players randomly match against each other. Then they might get a lucky win.)Dunno, my other competitive experiences are with Fighting Game tournaments and amateur (real life) basketball leagues. Since I’m quite casual, it’s normal for me to be cannon fodder for 90% of the participants in any tournament. I expect to be destroyed in my first match in a tournament, and if I’m lucky, I’ll get a fair fight in the loser’s bracket on my second match.
Similarly in basketball, although we weren’t the worst team in our division, 3/4 of the other teams were much better and would easily win.So yeah, I don’t really get the mentality “The matchmaking must only give me fair matches! Preferably ones I will win!!1!”
In most other competitive activities, matchmaking is either completely random (tournaments) or you play -everyone- else (leagues.)
(Oh, and compounding all of this is the fact that new players start with average MMR, which means that, unless they prepared carefully by training in unranked / customs first, they’re destined to lose their way to their proper MMR, taking down other teammates struggling to climb out in the process.)
Yes I read the scrubs philosophy. I believe it said (paraphrasing) “As in real life, in games, you only care about yourself. And scrubs have a philosophy in life, omg! (not sure the author could even spell philosophy) And it’s not the same as mine!! WTF!”
The exact reason people don’t want to play a game that involves them losing constantly is this is something they do to enjoy themselves (something the scrubs philosophy frowns upon above winning) and they might as well do something else. Being cannon fodder is not something they see as enjoyable. Some of them even, get this, don’t enjoy using other people as cannon fodder either and don’t care to win that way. They don’t see a flaw in the system and think “I can exploit this to interrupt someone else’s enjoyment.” They would much rather lose than degrade their own morals. That sounds perfectly rational to some people and insane to others.
I can totally see where you are coming from with your basketball and you sound really passionate and it’s so commendable that you stick with it. But not everyone thinks the same and they don’t need to be demeaned because of that.
Reapers don’t need a nerf (changed my mind on this). They are just as easy to take down as everyone else just don’t put 4 of them in a game. It’s only scrapper, rev and ele because they are too tough and don’t take damage. And revs shouldn’t get 25 stacks of might so easy. Balance done. That wasn’t hard.
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“Good” being operative word. No one in a MMR spiral claimed to be a professional just that they aren’t as bad as the division they are stuck in.
What would it prove? We already know theres a bias in the system with or without one of the best players in the competition on your team. Hence why Helseth didn’t get stuck in emerald this season. He won’t be playing games against anyone remotely near his skill level as they have long moved on. If he tried it at the start of the season that would be impressive.
Why did he have the tantrum last season because he couldn’t get anywhere in low division if he can do the same with any account? He’s utterly full of it.
This is a cogent explanation of the current system however i think there are a couple of misconceptions. At the lower levels the placement of teams will not be random as there’s less people with lower MMR than higher. So this would account for many of the huge loss streaks and I’d say the range of MMR would vary more widely as well. As a result people are put into teams with an almost 100% loss rate despite the algorithm not appearing to behave like that. Things do improve as the divisions get higher and it should be more random but I’m sensing theres a lot more other factors in play. Profession imbalance, solo q vs premade, people leaving games, afking, or throwing games that prevent it from being purely random.
Ranked is more competitive than unranked so it’s better for improving performance. But the current system does not foster under skilled players. Pro leagues want a place they can play competitively against similarly skilled players as well. And that’s understandable. So there’s no choice but to seperate the two. Or change the game to 50% (no one should have the match stacked agaisnt them) and make progressing up and beyond ruby something that only highly skilled players can do.
At this point its a adequate comment on the system. More people should do this to buck the system and get them to pay attention.
Yeh they drew us in with the AP and backpack and made it achievable for everyone.
More of us could have enjoyed ranked pvp, outside of the rewards, if they addressed any of the problems with the gameplay we mentioned during season 1. However we could still ignore all that to get the rewards. Now they’ve changed their story and we can’t get it without an incredible amout of grinding while other people sail through. No plans to fix except a flimsy promise for next season after they screwed us over.
Anet you can have a well deserved screw you too.
Way to promote your investment hey? Now they’ve gone all quite waiting for the dust to settle rather than admit it was a mistake.
They are not random. It was 50% last season but this season its teams with a higher mmr against teams with a lower mmr. The teams with the higher mmr get ahead and the teams with the lower mmr get fed up and quit.
It’s down to anet for having 3-4 viable builds in the competition and not listening to complaints.
The games are stacked to make it easier for the pros who were stuck in your situation now.. who couldn’t win an evenly matched game.
Anet intentionally designed the system so that some people would lose repeatedly. They won’t answer anyone’s complaints about this. So the game is a big fiery ball visible from space.
I agree with Crimson kittenhat it feels like the MM system is working as intended. The leagues are not perfect as they desperately need a placement system to move players into their proper division faster. Yet I also find that almost everyone complaining about the MM system immediately writes themselves off as above average or godly players who can make no mistake and that all their other teammates are the problem and MM is to blame. As OP states there are the vocal minority who might have some “bad luck” with the MM system. Even then most of the half decent players are at least in saph/ruby by now and it shouldn’t be that much of a struggle to get a few wins out.
Then again the intention of this post was to not turn into another kitten about the MM system. It was a productive post to help some people maybe spot what other teammates are doing and possibly giving them tips as to how to improve, or how themselves can improve.
Honestly no matter how perfect you think you may play, there is always room for improvement. This post is helpful, maybe not to all the MM kitteners, but to anyone else just getting into pvp who want to improve.
The title could use some work then.
Of course it’s rigged. They said we are going to give one team a higher mmr .
If we had an ant race and I took 5 ants that won their last 10 races and gave you 5 that lost their last ten races – what would you call that?
Yes they make a few professions stonger than the rest to the point you are playing games against only those professions and you have to start playing one of those professions. Anet ignores any complaints about this until they feel like doing something about it and then make 3 other professions stronger than the rest, ignore complaints.. repeat.
Except Elementalist.. I’m sure one of the devs plays this because it’s been overpowered for the last couple of years.
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To make it easier for high skill player to get ahead they rigged low skill players games so they’d lose endlessly. Twisted hey!
It’s not really worth it if you could do that.
Yes and they aren’t listening so it’s time to tell them where they can stick it.
I think the problem also lies in solo q you have a good chance of coming up against a team that’s all op classes. Like 3 reapers and 2 scrappers or 4 eles and your whole team aren’t any of those. Or you have a team mate that wants to throw the game. Like one game I had where I was one pip away a necro abandonned us in the midfight where we would of won it and you could tell they were slacking. The odds of things like this happening are quite high and go against your chances of 3 wins in a row.
I believe you Eater of Peeps. Been trying all day in emerald and got 2 wins I don’t even know how many times and always lost the third one. You can’t get up a tier without 3 wins in row. or 2 wins (after a losing 3 times) a loss then 2 wins. That never happened either.. It was 2 wins.. loss and win then loss. Statistically it should of happened the amount of times i got to 1 pip away. Like how a casino designs their games so the house always wins. If they are going to screw us over this much we can only expect more in the future. I don’t think this games worth playing with such bad management.
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They don’t listen and they don’t talk. This is a one way conversation.
And why make 3 viable professions each season and not fix it. No one likes this (am I right?) It seems like they do it on purpose. Eles, rev and mes last season. Eles, scrapper and necro this season. You can tell why eles need buff.
Priorities are important.
This just happened to me. 3rd game in winstreak 1 from tier. Next game I got the bonus. I remember this happening once last season too.
I play ranked to try out new builds atm :P
Don’t. That’s just rude. Same as tanking or going afk and you wouldn’t like it. No more of that.
1) Started day 4
2) Emerald
3) Yes. Making a comeback
4) Advancing
5) Not atm
6) Till I get the backpack
I lost 20 games realised something was screwy and waited till the people who didn’t know what they were doing to quit to start playing again.
Do not lol. The logic in this thread holds true but I understand there’s an alternate reason in that it doesn’t result in unskilled people in legendary. My concern has been that lower mmr players quiting will have a negative effect on the game. And that skilled players will still suffer through sheer bad luck and that the lack of competitiveness of landslide wins.
So if you make the system fair you’ll make people progress to where they aren’t suppose to be quicker. And if you stack the decks against lower MMR players they will quit or get to where they aren’t supposed to be slower. Well basically it’s saying if you are a lower MMR you shouldn’t play.
I had about 30 game lose streak and now all the people who don’t know how to use their skills aren’t on my team I’m winning. I can imagine the outrage if that happened to a pro player. And this could still happen unfairly to anyone at any division. As Jourdelune pointed out. If you are at the top you are there off the sweat of other players. It’s a grind for everyone if it’s fair. So we are transfering our personal grind to everyone below our skill level or those with higher skill who happened to catch bad break. Like a pyramid scheme except everyone but those at the top lose.
The not losing 2 pips was my suggestion to Anet when they announced the new system because most of the time you lost 2 pips due to match fixing, afks and dcs. Making it an even bigger grind fest for everyone for circumstances beyond your control.
You mean saying something using logic and recieving a logical response. You’re right that would be an ideal situation and less irritating.
I’ve already said what this thread is for. My problem is i’m dealing with.. ( insert your own adjective)
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Of course they can. It’s taking longer as the odds are stacked against them. But pro players would obviously be in the same situation if they were placed in matches where they were heavily predicted to lose. You’ve drawn a line in the sand and it’s preventing you from following this thread.
I said:
“The philosophy of this season is once you start to struggle you’ve hit your appropriate division and anyone can climb higher by grinding it out.”
One word is mucking you up. We’ll change can’t to “struggle to”.
We’ve already covered that. This conversation is circling.
Does too lol ( that’s about the mental level were at now)
You’ve lost the plot of this thread. I’m not saying that pro players are ambers. I’m saying if the philosophy of this season is true, then last season (when they had an easier chance of leaving amber than low MMR players this season) the same must also be true.
It doesn’t matter they got out of amber. The philosophy of this season is once you start to struggle you’ve hit your appropriate division and anyone can climb higher by grinding it out.
He had a little tantrum as we all do at times and thought better of it afterwards and removed it.
You don’t remember Abjured member’s video on YouTube after a few hours in amber resulting in this seasons system. Using this seasons philosophy they are an amber player. Once you start to struggle you’ve hit your “appropriate” level.
All net “swoosh” thread.
For the unsmarts last season was 50/50 and people complained pros struggled to get out of amber. So using the logic of this season it holds true for last season.