This is extremely frustrating as this is our ONLY long distance power weapon… Staff doesn’t match the damage and scepter attack is too slow to match it when are we getting an answer on progress at least?
The OP would have a little more credibility if he didn’t say things such as “shout Warriors are more viable than 100b Warriors in tPvP” without solid proof such as videos and presence in the top PvP scene.
But as much as you people don’t want Mesmers to get toned down, they will get toned down. Why? Look at Shaco from LoL 1-2 years ago.
Ahem.. You mean how they have been toned down… Greatly since launch… Or about the shattered strength bug/nerf… The GCD on shatters that was supposed to be temporary but has been forgotten… The increase in CD on most phantasms the increase in time between summon and attack on phantasm… Please tell me you think these haven’t “toned the Mesmer down” mean while ele’s in general still dominate hotjoin and tourney… And anyone that doesn’t thing warriors are viable is just lying to themselves… Not gonna argue over the type but warriors are good in pvp.
I’m not saying mesmers are OP’d, I’m saying both thieves and mesmers are plain old irritating to fight. Wading into a sea of illusions and clones is beyond absurd. Fighting an enemy you can’t see is not fun, nor for that matter is playing as a profession that hides most of the time.
As you just said the best teams are balanced, so enforce balance? I’m talking about fun here, sure you may WIN against the team, but it most certainly was not fun (I know I know “winning isn’t everything” lame guy I am.) When I kill a Mesmer/thief it’s a “ugh, finally” moment. When I kill or even lose to a profession other than those that used genuine skill, that’s a “gg” moment.
hmm? does confusion do half damage in WvW like in sPvP?
Nope confusion is full on in wvw as it should be… Its sad that spvp must be catered to… but such is life… This is why you don’t see more confusion builds in sPvP because they are worthless… Also wading through a sea of clones… you mean 3 right? Can’t have more out than that… And if you see more than that dodge… because a shatter is coming… What’s funny is because I have played Mesmer since launch I never have an issue finding the Mesmer or avoiding their damage… Its almost as if playing the profession has heightened my understanding of how it works… GASP!
If you are looking for a clone generating build scepter is great… pair it with sword you have two blocks that do high damage when they hit and they also both give crowd control… Couple that with confusing images and scepter is a boss in wvw.
^^
Razor,
BTW playing a tank ele means you cant kill anyone. No wonder you lose to mesmers.
Lol if you look at past posts he states he is GC. WHEN ppl moaned about losing to thieves the response was stack some toughness… Now that his gripe is with mesmers he still runs full GC… Go figs
let me finish this discussion for all you wvw/spvp who think mesmer is op
clone= doesnt move. no icons. doesnt show names if your options is set right. does no damage. call target on real.
wow that’s so hard? I know I have more experience than most of you and certainly more than you who complain about it but it takes less than 2 seconds to find real one.
its the same as saying stealth thieves are invulnerable. haha
L2p.
I cannot think of anything to describe such ignorance and stupidity, you completely miss the point and anything that’s been said in this thread so far, thinking that the only problem with mesmers consists in recognizing which is the real one. You better be trolling because if this is the best answer you can come up with, I really do feel sorry for you.
But oh well, as expected from a mesmer player. Generally, they aren’t the brightest bunch out there.
Wow so in your infinite kittening wisdom you are able to ascertain the intelligence of an entire group of players. Sorry sir I’m a nursing major in the top of my class and have a 6 figure a year job waiting for me upon graduation. Please do not make personal attacks based off of class played because that is an extremely weak base for any argument
These two class mechanics require skill to counter — more so than any other class in the game (go ahead and pick one — no other mechanics compare)
unfortunately the amount of dmg they deal is just too high for using simple skills especially thieves . below is an example on my ranger with 3.2k toughness,1.1k healing power,i used up all my utility in a previous skirmish so this thief killed me under 5 seconds flat.
4k steal,7k backstab,2 times HS for 9k,3k cloak n dagger.
he pressed around 5 buttons only
Same thing happens with mesmers: iLeap, sword skill, 2x clones, mind wrack -> BOOM 12k damage instantly only 4 buttons pressed and no risk taken considering you are immune most of the time and you can just go invi or use distortion after mind wrack, 0 risk taken.
Here you have a massive misunderstanding of how mesmer works… He is not just gonna just pop a mindwrack blurred and do that much damage… Mindwrack base damage is very low… We can get it that high with traits… And even then just one mindwrack isn’t gonna do 12k unless it is preceeded by a full diversion… in this case we can stack 15-20 stacks of vuln IF we interrupted one of your skills… After which the mesmer still has to get 3 more clones out and close with you to get that blurred frenzy/mindwrack combo. Then MAYBE if it’s a full GC they can get 12k mindwrack… But it is not as easy to pull off as a thief 12k backstab and they (the mesmer) will have blown most stun breaks and weapon skills to pull off that combo and has to wait at least 30 seconds to get the exact same combo off… Soooo you were sayin?
Wotutalkinboutwillis? He can pop Mindwrack and blurred and do heavy damage, exact numbers aren’t really the point. I won’t pretend to be a fantastic Mesmer by any stretch of the imagination but it’s fairly accurate. The swap is pretty easy to dodge negating that initial combo so it’s not “instant” but it’s certainly quick. The combo itself is quite low risk in itself to perform, it’s after the combo that the Mesmer starts becoming somewhat vulnerable.
At the base doesn’t really matter since few are Shattering off a “base” mindwrack. It’s like saying Steal doesn’t do damage unless traited for…well most have it traited for damage.
Even with the traits the mesmer might touch that damage if the are smart enough to use diversion first and get the max amount of vulnerability on the target… And our damage will still only hurt that much against a GC. AND Glass Cannons have no right to gripe about damage from another glass cannon… It still takes quite awhile to set up the comboto be that effective and there have even been mesmer “guides” encouraging use MW and Cry of Frustration… And just ignore diversion. On an amazing combo I may get 8k total damage. I have seen d/d eles auto attack do 5k damage per hit. (fire). And their water auto attack stacks vuln. (mesmers need to go 15 into a trait line to match that). So most of the people here posting against mesmers have no clue what is necessary for us to achieve damage that other classes get simply from auto attacking. Not too mention every other class has slot skills that deal direct damage ( ours depend on the stupidity of the target mostly)
vs. Mesmer, use Ctrl-T — that’s what I do (and I use mesmer almost exclusively in PvP). It doesn’t make it easy to fight a mesmer, but it makes it easier. No such help with Thief — you have to wait for stealth to break (or shoot into the dark).
The issue here isn’t balance… mesmer is well balanced against other classes. It’s the class-mechanic of clones. Same argument with thieves — thieves are not OP, but their class mechanic is very challenging to fight against.
Does crtl+t stay on the main Mesmer all the time no matter what?
Until the mesmer decides to stealth
ooo they get 3 seconds on a 35 second cooldown with decoy… And if they have mass invis guess wht they dont have? Dun dun dun TIMEWARP… if they have veil guess what they dont have either A. one of the 3 stunbreaks that are available to us… or B. Portal Which most mesmers would never go into a tournament without. Few mesmers would use a torch in pvp because the confusion from the phantasm is lame. So if they are stealth heavy that leaves them with only one stun break and veil and portal… And decoy only gives 3 seconds and is not spammable. And if you have called target and it suddenly drops OMG mesmer is stealth. lemme wait 3 seconds… Oh hey there he is again at the same health i left him at… lemme just finish him off with my pistol whip, hammer swing, dragons claw, etc etc… As someone stated before mesmer is like where’s waldo except for with a mesmer 9/10 times its obvious who the clones are… And if you know how to fight a mesmer most of them will freak when they realize you have them locked down and are pressuring them and ignoring the clones and phantasms. Also they are super slow with only one gap closer and one 2 gap openers… We don’t have the in combat mobility of a warrior thief ele or even guardian for that matter.
These two class mechanics require skill to counter — more so than any other class in the game (go ahead and pick one — no other mechanics compare)
unfortunately the amount of dmg they deal is just too high for using simple skills especially thieves . below is an example on my ranger with 3.2k toughness,1.1k healing power,i used up all my utility in a previous skirmish so this thief killed me under 5 seconds flat.
4k steal,7k backstab,2 times HS for 9k,3k cloak n dagger.
he pressed around 5 buttons only
Same thing happens with mesmers: iLeap, sword skill, 2x clones, mind wrack -> BOOM 12k damage instantly only 4 buttons pressed and no risk taken considering you are immune most of the time and you can just go invi or use distortion after mind wrack, 0 risk taken.
Here you have a massive misunderstanding of how mesmer works… He is not just gonna just pop a mindwrack blurred and do that much damage… Mindwrack base damage is very low… We can get it that high with traits… And even then just one mindwrack isn’t gonna do 12k unless it is preceeded by a full diversion… in this case we can stack 15-20 stacks of vuln IF we interrupted one of your skills… After which the mesmer still has to get 3 more clones out and close with you to get that blurred frenzy/mindwrack combo. Then MAYBE if it’s a full GC they can get 12k mindwrack… But it is not as easy to pull off as a thief 12k backstab and they (the mesmer) will have blown most stun breaks and weapon skills to pull off that combo and has to wait at least 30 seconds to get the exact same combo off… Soooo you were sayin?
All I know is that you don’t have to dodge 20 different things at a time or have to fight NPCs while the enemy X class gets FREE shots at you.
Only mesmers are capable of that.
Phantasms could be replaced for something else. No one is saying that your skill kit will now consist of 4 abilities for each weapon lol. And to say that phantasms are a class defining ability… okay lol.
My problem aren’t the phantasms, it’s a sum of everything they do. But I believe that downright removing the phantasms would make them much easier to deal with without nerfing them to oblivion.
You have to be delusional if you don’t consider their burst / utility too high for the average standard. No matter what I say you’re convinced that mesmers are balanced right now.
It only makes it better to picture your face when you read the upcoming nerfs that I’m sure will eventually come. Priceless.
So your suggestion on how to “Deal with something” is to remove it? Seriously that has to be a joke…And also the amount of work they would have to do would take longer than any team is willing to do… Once again phantasms have been nerfed already they haven’t been touched anymore as far as nerfs go because doing so would either pidgeon hole mesmers into nothing but shatters or b make the class so unpopular that no one plays it any more… I’m sorry you hate mesmers so much I really am. Sounds like they took your lunch money or something. But none of your suggestions are reasonable or plausible… Maybe they should bring the Mesmer from GW1. You know the class that could shut anyone out of any skill for the duration of a fight. Or maybe you need to tell the Mesmer on your team how much you hate them and they shouldn’t play with you anymore. Because you defend the hell out of D/D eles (way better off then mesmers in almost all cases) and I have yet to say they should be nerfed into the ground. Or better yet destroy everything here you want… Rebuff confusion in PvP that way we really can be the lock down class we were meant to be.
Edit: and for everyone else’s argument of starting the recharge when the phantasm is killed that keeps us from having multiple phantasms in a boss fight (which most teams love) and you are also ignoring the fact that every phantasm has had some form of cooldown increase since release and the attack rate has been decreased so we can summon them less often and they attack less often… And you whiners still aren’t happy.
As expected, you ignored my entire post and ranted about nonsense.
Nonsense begets nonsense… You are still trying to destroy the basis for the class… It’s like saying eles are forced into one attunement and thats it… Or that warriors shouldn’t have the hardest hitting non elite skill in game (100B). Or that thieves can have 0 access to stealth no matter what… Engineers can’t have kits or turrets… You can keep on this all you want but it just shows me that you are bad at your class because several other people who don’t all play mesmers have said they have no issue with phantasms. Also phantasms and shatters are our ONLY source of DPS. Be happy that you have 20 whopping skills at your disposal where as the rest of us will have to settle for less. And only a couple phantasms do good damage and one of the only ones that did have been nerfed already and you have clearly ignored the fact that they have destroyed the greatsword phantasm this patch…
He’s an ele and a glass ele. And if you run GC you can expect to be taken out quick by anyone… If I run GC I go down quick which is why I run a hybrid… So now that a GC is griping about going down to a balanced build I see the problem… He was GC… You can’t expect to survive forever running that…. It’s just silly… Today in tournies I was playing against a bad Mesmer… he got the better of me in one match because I was already preoccupied with his warrior teammate but the next round I came up on him at altar and wiped the floor with him in about a minute… Now do you think he is saying “man I wish they would nerf mesmers” no he is prolly saying wow that guy plays Mesmer better than me… I got hit with more than my fair share of 100B tonight but do you think I was saying “ kitten 100B is OP they should nerf it” nope its man too bad I used my stunbreaks on his buddy… So yeah this is just a little ridiculous. A lot of people that play mesmers are good there are quite a few very terrible ones… One in my guild for instance we got matched against each other in Hot Joins she has a lvl 80 mes same as me… and she screamed in guild chat “I CANT KEEP TRACK OF JOHNNY!” Now she was pretty good at dealing with other mesmers… Do mesmers need nerfed because of mes on mes encounters? No then you can see how things work… Get some friends go to an empty server and watch the mesmers duel! Just watch from both ends… see what happens. And if its about team builds then seriously that’s just good team work.
You got to be kidding me… A phantasm mesmer’s damage still doesn’t match a zerker warrior… and the toughness doesn’t match that of a zerker warrior either… And as far as survivability GC goes hmm Thiefs? yeah way better… Plus with a phantasm mesmer you don’t have to spend all your time worrying about which one is the real mesmer… This doesn’t need a nerf… Not in the least bit… And it will still affect other mesmers. Not everyone is a shatter nor a phantasm… Some of us run hybrids… And this would hurt us too.. No other suggestion is needed here. People are just sad that someone has a direct counter to their build… Bunkers will still destroy phantasm mesmers and GC’s have to dodge one or two bursts and are able to burn the phantasm mesmer down fast.
Also they destroyed the Greatsword phantasm this patch so you were saying?
It’s obvious that warriors are the most damaging class in the game, but raw damage doesn’t necessarily equal viability.
Mesmers
85% damage
70% utility
70% unpredictability
let’s put a 50% easy to counter here.
Which one is better? Stop comparing classes like that. Mesmers need some toning down and you know it :P
Dude did you miss the post where I said they bugged out our greatsword beyond belief in this patch…. This is also coming from an ele (prolly bunker) that is THE MOST GRIPED ABOUT CLASS at the moment. Still… Even after the patch… Not to mention that the new map specifically caters to d/d eles is very very blatant… You are very biased… I have rarely if ever demanded a nerf to anything… I usually say something about how to handle ele’s in certain situations instead of an insane nerf… You guys are ridiculous at calling for the nerf bat… Plus the suggestion mentioned would destroy any mesmer build because our phantasms have already been nerfed with the not summon on blind/block/invuln add to that the fact that they have a very long cast time except for the torch and the warlock which both do bad damage because if you have enough conditions on you in PvP for the iWarlock to do anything then you are dead anyways and confusion is a joke in PvP so the 3 stacks from the torch phantasm is terrible as well and none of our phantasms inherent any stats like condition damage and duration plus they still go down insanely fast to any small amount of AOE and only bad players say mesmers are unpredictable. Mesmers are extremely predictable had a warrior last night tell me “I knew that was coming because I know that combo”… And most “Top tier” (still laugh at that) demand that the mesmers bring certain utilities and builds thereby diminishing the mesmer’s personal choice in the build making them not OP at all in 1v1 situations and only marginally close to d/d ele’s or bunker guards in group scenarios
And what other abilities would you suggest genius? Illusions are the entire basis for the mesmer class and phantasms have been nerfed into the ground already. So tell me without completely destroying mesmers what would you in all your superiority and know how put there that would still keep the base mechanic for mesmers there? Once again the damage in phantasms has been touched base cooldowns increased and they can’t be summoned on dodge/blind/block/invuln what more do you want? The mesmer to just sit there stand still and say “okay beat me to a pulp mr. D/D ele because I know you are soooo UP right now” Get over it.
You have also seen me get shredded too then because I lose a lot as well…. Not sure where you watch me duel. But if it’s in WvW there are way more things to take into account… I also play multiple classes and try to learn counters to them… Most of these people that gripe about mesmers refuse to try one out and look for weaknesses.
Also there was a patch where they introduced a pause between when the phantasm is summoned and when it begins its attack. It use to be immediate… So that plus animation should be of some help.
You got to be kidding me… A phantasm mesmer’s damage still doesn’t match a zerker warrior… and the toughness doesn’t match that of a zerker warrior either… And as far as survivability GC goes hmm Thiefs? yeah way better… Plus with a phantasm mesmer you don’t have to spend all your time worrying about which one is the real mesmer… This doesn’t need a nerf… Not in the least bit… And it will still affect other mesmers. Not everyone is a shatter nor a phantasm… Some of us run hybrids… And this would hurt us too.. No other suggestion is needed here. People are just sad that someone has a direct counter to their build… Bunkers will still destroy phantasm mesmers and GC’s have to dodge one or two bursts and are able to burn the phantasm mesmer down fast.
Also they destroyed the Greatsword phantasm this patch so you were saying?
A thieves mobility in stealth could be altered or what abilities they are able to use. Mesmers stealth is not really an issue great sword phantom could use a nerf though.
Mesmer 80 Mesmer 65
Seriously? The greatsword was bugged out this last patch and now the phantasm hits once maybe twice instead of the 4 times the tooltip states… Everytime they touch mesmers they break us worse than we were before… So no the greatsword phantasm needs fixed!
two! Defender and disenchanter… Once again messing with these would destroy how a phantasm mesmer works because if they survive as long as the cooldown states then that leaves a bunker mesmer unable to bunker… It’s like you are saying we should remove certain skills from bunker guardians… Its ridiculous… And i am not sure how a spirit ranger works but when a necro has a minion up they get a secondary effect on the skill bar (kinda like turret engis) and then they can use that and that is why there is a cooldown after the minion is killed also necro minions have way more HP than most phantasms. In a phantasm build the mesmers rarely destroy their illusions…
Edit: and your suggestion is still faulty even though its a suggestion.
Actually no… This would completely destroy how a mesmer operates… The phantasms have internal cooldowns and are usually killed right away… Because necro minions are skills and not weapon skills. No other weapon skills operate the way mesmers do and and causing them to cooldown when the phantasm is killed will destroy how a phantasm mesmer works especially if they rely on summoning them at the end of cooldowns… Ranger spirits and Minion necros are slot skills not weapon skills. This is where the basis for your argument is shaky… You are essentially comparing apples to oranges.
When I tourney its with my guild and we are still pretty coordinated (not on vent, mumble, or anything) sometimes we get someone from solo que added onto our team and the person doesn’t say anything THE ENTIRE MATCH… We don’t know what they are doing or where they are going… I start thinking hmmm okay lemme see what hotjoin is like… There nobody talks AT ALL… It’s like a lot of people don’t even understand the game mode… or that their are other chat channels than just /say… or that the team is trying to talk to them.
Ironically when I bunker I use none of those because I don’t need to because I am only on one node the entire fight kitten off guardians and BS thieves. :P (Okay so I do use timewarp)
That is a very ridiculous statement. You have no idea why the ledges are there, in fact, they’re probably just there for graphics sake, since you know….every castle has walls like that on top…
So to say using chain pulls should be a bannable offense is just laughable, at best….
your assertion is the ridiculous one. the ledges prevent line of sight in precisely the areas you most want to shoot. they serve no other purpose besides stopping pulls, the exact reason its extremely dangerous to jump up on them to get better line of sight.
i dont give a kitten about chain pulls. its when you pull people over an obvious obstruction that you should be reported.
The pull on a Mesmer is not LOS.. Its AOE like several other skills in this game… So putting a curtain up at the top of a wall anything with in the range of the pull is going to get pulled into it… How close you are to the curtain directly correlates to how far you get pulled. Most mesmers can not place the curtain at the horizontal part of the wall so if you are a tad to close to the edge of the wall then yes you are going to get pulled off by one pull…. If one Mesmer does it then his buddy does it right after then that’s teamwork not exploiting… and they deserver the free kills you are about to give them.
I just find it op that they can do so much damage without any risk at all. Both duelist and zerker do a lot of damage without the mesmer needing to anything at all(like 3-4k each), and a shatter combo (4x shatter) hits 2.2k each on a light armor target with soldier amulet, thats 8.8k damage instantly most of the time unlike 100blades which comes slowly even with quickness. Right you can dodge or use oh kitten utilities the first few but if we add on top of that you are dodging other enemies its pretty hard to stop, on top of that shatter hits aoe.
Duelist one evade can negate most of the damage… And as people have previously stated the berserker got bugged out in this most recent patch and is missing most of its attacks. Also if you want us to have different damage then make a suggestion to the devs on different skills we could have instead of the ones that are there instead of nerf nerf nerf… And 100blades does way more damage than any of our phantasms could ever achieve… Also we have already stated that mesmers have gotten nerfed several SEVERAL times since launch… So this has nothing to do with mesmers and everything to do with your ego…
My main is a Mesmer… and tbh… Every Mesmer is very predictable (even me). And not hard to play against at all… And if its in a group setting then call a target… If its 1v1 its even easier.
so tonight i was dueling a mesmer in wvw, had him already downed, when suddenly i drop from almost full hp to downed state. i manage to finish him off and res and then check combat log when i see an 8.8k dmg from… smoke bomb??? (see screenshot)
i did not see anyone nearby (also after i rallied noone attacked me).
since when does smoke bomb do damage? or is it a wrong entry in the combat log? or could it be hacks? so confused…
does anyone have an explanation for this or encountered something similar?
I fought a Mesmer in wvw… I ran all knights and also berserkers gear… When he was down the “smoke bomb” hit me for only 2.4k… so in order for you to suffer 8k you must have had a ton of vuln on you or are a super squishy GC yourself.. In which case. boo hoo
Edit: these must be coming from people running GC. But you know what? Take the rogue off of downed put the mage there instead to stack confusion and then give us the rogue on the torch hahahahahahaha!
so you have to use an item to be useful? And I am sorry but you may be one of the only thieves that is actually useful in dungeons… People start playing thieves to instagib in wvw mostly and when it comes to something they actually have to try at they suck… that is why most people hate thieves in their pugs because most thieves that join pugs suck… If you are the exception to the rule then here is your freaking cookie. Most of the time though they just suck hardcore… And me facetanking bosses usually keeps my group from wiping…
I don’t need the item to be useful, it just makes me less dependant on others and be more self-dependant.
Now I DO understand that there are a LOT of bad thieves out there (there are equal numbers of bad players out in there in different classes but the thief class is less forgiving highlighting the bad players) but the class as a whole is very useful in dungeons. This whole thread was just to say don’t kick thieves just cause they’re a thief since thief is amazing and very useful.
And jport, even though that you don’t like having thieves in your pt (and I can’t stop you from kicking them), I’m just glad that you are starting to realize what a good thief can bring to your pt. IMO, give the player a chance and if they suck bad, block them and know for later. Playing with bad players can be painful but if you find one of the thieves that have mastered their class, you’ll be wanting to group with them all the time because they can bring so much to the team.
I only have had one maybe two thieves I know I would never kick one was from my guild… But tbh I never kick anyone from a party and usually never deny anyone… Its just an observation on my runs with thieves that 9 out of 10 times they suck and those 9 times I ask them how they are specced “full zerker BS” is the answer usually… and its like uhhh… really dummy?
Sooo funny fact… I had to deal with a downed Mesmer long enough to suffer this “smoke bomb” considering that this issue has come up. I looked at the combat log… I was hit for a whopping 2.4k… Sooooo you must have been either full GC or had vulnerability stacked up insanely high before the downed happened…
Healing shout warrior? Can your thief heal the entire party for 3k? Nah… Didn’t think so…
lol… just lol… some people just… okay yes I can’t heal an entire team for 3k but what I can do as thief is heal my entire party for about 12k every 20s. That is 12k FLAT with regen added in as a little bonus while also cleansing conditions. And that is without the help of ANY teamate. It’s called healing seed mixed with blast finisher. Want another 2k? Shadow refuge. 3+k? shoot through the refuge. PLEASE learn the class before you make comments like this.
healing seed is a racial skill not a thief skill.. Sorry holmes… So if you are sylvari doing that good on ya. But most thieves use that clusterbomb blast finisher on their enemy and not their party… How about making sure the entire parties damage gets cut in half? Thieves can’t do that. One bunker mes can handle that… And we can face tank the bosses while everyone else is DPSing them from range… Also returning multiple hits of retaliation to the boss doing something two fold protecting party and damaging boss.
healing seed is an item not a racial skill, I’m a norn… Sorry holmes. I can use the leap finisher on hs or the blast finisher on cluster to heal the team if they’re melee around me with that combo. And with that item, I keep the entire team alive while still dishing out insane dps while also facetanking the boss. And you know what else works well? Not facetanking bosses but actually circle strafing and kiting. When you have people who know what they’re doing, the bunker mes will do jack squat but timewarp every 3 mins while a thief will dish out insane dps and be helpful.
so you have to use an item to be useful? And I am sorry but you may be one of the only thieves that is actually useful in dungeons… People start playing thieves to instagib in wvw mostly and when it comes to something they actually have to try at they suck… that is why most people hate thieves in their pugs because most thieves that join pugs suck… If you are the exception to the rule then here is your freaking cookie. Most of the time though they just suck hardcore… And me facetanking bosses usually keeps my group from wiping…
@OP Chaos storm CD increased as well as Chaos armor… Long time ago… Phantasms can no longer be summoned on blind/block/invuln. Phantasms also get obstructed way more than any other skill in the game… GCD on shatters… And every patch introduces some form of new bug/nerf to mesmers intended or not.. Most recently the Greatsword phantasm hits once maybe twice for damage that even a GC wouldn’t notice… So there you go Mesmers Nerfed… If you still have issues… Let me get you the worlds smallest violin
Nope. I updated my original post. Apparently a mesmer can hit you for that much damage from the downed state using “Phantasmal Rogue” according to someone in that thread.
This is obviously a bug and needs to be fixed. There’s no way that a player should be dealing up to 8k in damage from the downed state.
Then make the phantasmal rogue one of our off hand weapons. (torch) and put the iMage in the downedstate to help stack the confusion… TBH it was prolly an even match to begin with if it took that much to get you down at when the mes was down and also it has a long charge up time.
I have been apart of these 4+1 runs on my mes…. It was all fine and dandy until the last boss when this one dumb dumb kept going down… I was in a full bunker mes build providing regen and 1/2 damage reduc with my defender… This guy said “Mes why aren’t you removing my conditions?” I’m like what? I suck worse than you at condi removal.. So while these farm runs are legit… The idiocy of some of the warriors at demanding that the Mesmer be their saving grace on EVERYTHING is beyond freaking annoying.
I still am skeptical of trying scepter torch.. Mainly because if you are at scepter’s max range the torch phantasm will prolly miss and then the prestige requires melee to do its conditions/damage. Scepter sword sword torch is fun sometimes though but you have to have good weapon swap timing to get max confusion. I just wish Mesmer confusion lasted as long as engineers… I mean. WTF? How do they get 5 stacks at 5 seconds and we only get 3 at 3 seconds usually.
this is why: 8k backstab, 4.5k surge and 7k heartseeker.
edit: oh i guess this is a dungeon thread but idc i’m leaving this here anyway.
I have no idea what kind of spec and or gear you have but methinks that damage is a problem with your gear/spec not the thief that attacked you. One of my main toons is a thief and he is not geared for glass canon (mixed valk/knight/zerk gear) build and even I can pull off those numbers (or close to them) on a toon if they’re not geared for toughenss. Normally in WvW I hit people for around 5k with backstab on average, 3.8k-4.2k for someone geared for toughness, and 7k+ for someone who is either undergeared or geared for glass canon. If the guy who hit you was indeed glass canon spec then you would have been backstabbed for more then 8k unless you are geared/speced for survivability.
This is the major gripe with thieves though. People who want to roll around in wvw and loldps without specing for defense whatsoever. Then when a thief comes around and they get destroyed like a paperdoll. Then they come on these forums and complain about whatever class that destroyed them and say how OP they are and how they need to be nerfed, classic.
everything in this post is just wrong.
Right, then what’s your spec? I don’t know much about necros but I’m telling you damage numbers I see based upon my build, which is toughness heavy, less dmg then most thieves, but more survivability.
Also, I thought this was about dungeons, not WvW?
I run all soldier armor and knights accessories with only a couple things that are zerker and I still suffer this kind of damage…
Healing shout warrior? Can your thief heal the entire party for 3k? Nah… Didn’t think so…
lol… just lol… some people just… okay yes I can’t heal an entire team for 3k but what I can do as thief is heal my entire party for about 12k every 20s. That is 12k FLAT with regen added in as a little bonus while also cleansing conditions. And that is without the help of ANY teamate. It’s called healing seed mixed with blast finisher. Want another 2k? Shadow refuge. 3+k? shoot through the refuge. PLEASE learn the class before you make comments like this.
healing seed is a racial skill not a thief skill.. Sorry holmes… So if you are sylvari doing that good on ya. But most thieves use that clusterbomb blast finisher on their enemy and not their party… How about making sure the entire parties damage gets cut in half? Thieves can’t do that. One bunker mes can handle that… And we can face tank the bosses while everyone else is DPSing them from range… Also returning multiple hits of retaliation to the boss doing something two fold protecting party and damaging boss.
Just gonna say.. Condition Necro=Mesmer’s worst enemy… Put em on a point with a bunch of wells on their feet and the Mesmer will have bursted the necro into DS but these guys are the bane of a Mesmer… Why? because the griping that everyone has against mesmers is the high burst damage with escape capabilities… That necro held the point… Forced the Mesmer into portal (since everyone thinks they are running it) Also I may add portal requires some fore thought more so than a thieves escape abilities because it must be placed before the fight lol. But against a burst shatter mes… Conditions… Start running necros… And you will be happy.
Portal is group-dependent, and we’re discussing individual classes here, so it’s not really relevant.
I claim in right setup and spec we have outsanding mobility in and out of combat. I use a build i call Shatter Cat Mist nowdays when I roam, short cd on blink, staff blink and mirror immage swiftness (15 sec cd on swiftness on demand).
About the staitment portal is group dependent I argue its not. Portal is a fantastic tool for solo gameplay in wvwvw. Here is why i think so:
Osi this entire discussion aside… I am going to be trying out portal in my solo build tonight… I use all p/v/t in a shatter build. Very creative uses and stomps.
I would love this but lets not hold our breath… Currently we can’t be touched with out getting a skill screwed up… So imagine what a new weapon would do to us.
The greatsword phantasmal berserker is bugged out and missing a lot of its attack and dealing significantly less damage…. So if you want a power based build run scepter/sword and sword/x. As far as off hands are concerned you can have your fill most of them are pretty good but torch is very situational. Mesmers are very good in wvw but watch out our condition removal is worse than that of a warriors.
Ahem… Sir the scenario I gave you was in a tourney… I do not speak from hotjoin because if I want a zerg fest I will go to WvW where at least there my confusion will matter instead of the care bare condition it is in Pvp.
because heavy classes deal the same DPS as thieves, but can live longer. guards have slightly less damage, but way more survivibility so people seem to like those
stealth = Ash legion spy kit consumble
Heavy classes has 7% more damage reduction than medium classes. Find me a guardian that has similiar damage to glass thief. Guardians have kitten offensive traits.
You can’t br stealthed while moving on being downed.
they can bring more to the group then any other class.
hahahahaha, what can you bring more then guardian or warrior? afther them mesmer?
What does warrior bring except dps? They have very limited flexibility.
Healing shout warrior? Can your thief heal the entire party for 3k? Nah… Didn’t think so… Bunker Mesmer Phantasmal defender… Half damage for the entire party yes please! OH you have another phantasm near your defender… they are regenning each other? Cool! Can you thieves guild protect the entire team? Any ele can heal better than a thief.. You guys have stealth res which a Mesmer can do with a couple of skills. I have run a dungeon with one thief where we weren’t constantly ressing him the rest of the time… Thieves died first.. or they stayed at range and did very slow negligible damage.
Edit: yes I know they can cluster bomb for AOE healing with ele’s but few do… These would be the good thieves.
