I have 4 80’s… none of which are bunker built. I play mostly on my guardian and mes as of late. If you need help dealing with thieves and how to kill them feel free to pm me in game.
Running a non bunker guardian? Lol wut? Hey if it works more power to you! You may be one of the guardians I kill with a full retal build… But honestly people are going more bunker because like the backstab thieves that find it hilarious when they isnta down someone these bunker builds find it hilarious when a GC build runs up on em bursts and it was nothing more than a wet sneeze on them… And then they proceed to watch the circle of panic ensue while the GC tries to figure out what to do next.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.
Oh they are still there… but the thing that irks me about it however I do like the torch for condi removal but it doesn’t remove all conditions. other classes just get it built into their heals for the most part… except I think engi’s and maybe necros not sure on that one…
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
I think the change would pigeon hole all Thieves into taking Hide in Shadows, unlike my build performs better with Signet of Malice. I would rather see the Mesmer, and other classes get more reliable condition removals instead.
This is where the give and take comes in… Now someone suggested an internal cd on that trait which I think is good… If they made mesmers have more ability to remove condi’s I’d absolutely love that but I really don’t see it happening.. Here is one of the situations where you have to think about just how good you have it when it comes to conditions (warriors are in this boat too and engi’s kinda). The gods when it comes to condi removal are guards, eles, and rangers… But thieves are right behind them currently.
Edit: Many professions are pigeon holed currently into one heal.. No mesmers use mirror really and mantras only if we are traited to have some bonus with them… Other than that we use ether feast… always.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
I’d be fine with those changes as well. Any block or immunity that you whiff on should break stealth. Now there is no punishment unless you have a poison or auto crit buff. It would only add to the skillcap of thieves.
Poison and utility trops breaking stealth on first dmg I’m fine with too. Those are all reasonable changes.
Okay so some reasonable changes that some of the players here have agreed to, stealth breaking if an attack is blocked/invulned (Stiv). Choking gas and caltrops breaking stealth… These wouldn’t really touch the damage of the thief but it would make the instagibbing slightly harder and maybe tick off bad thieves so much that they leave for another class (happens to all classes when they get nerfed)
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
Keep in mind when I refer to caltrops I refer to the skill and the trait where thy drop on dodge…. I know A,b,c are traits and they can’t all get them at once but they can get a combo at once… but thank you for your response. and Hopefully others are as constructive.
Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
If It was they need to hurry the hell up and say whether or not it was intended… I don’t always use the GS but when I do iZerker is a huge part of that build considering only 3/5 skills are actually worth the trouble on the GS… But hey they fixed the prestige glitch! :/
So why be the guy that cant let someone complete the puzzle, just asking?
Jumping puzzles have unique terrain and are extremely fun places to duel.. If I am bored in wvw and know there is no way my match is going to be one because lets face it usually its one server steamrolling the other two I will go to EB Jp if possible and camp the entrance… Now if only one person rolls through I will hop up and down wave bow etc… If possible ask them to join party… Then ask if they wanna duel.. If not I cry like a sad panda. But I’ll be honest when most people are sitting there in the JP and they see a guy at the entrance they think KILL KILL KILL… But dueling in WvW is fun… You never really know what you are going to get there is way more build diversity in WvW than in sPvP.
Okay I am not sure why this thread has devolved into one guy trolling others or vice versa… The whole opener was stealth needs a nerf in WvW and people want to say well stealth as a whole… no… Because the classes that access it outside of the main stealth class get no or very miniscule added bonuses a thief can still trait to get a 100% crit chance from stealth and mug and then 30 points to spend elsewhere very few thieves go into their last line because the class mechanic “stealing” is of little importance outside of mug…
IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.
There is always a counter.
Here’s a start.
Rune of Melandru + Veggie Pizza will kitten their DPS so badly. Reducing their 7 sec bleed tick to just 2 sec. Congratz, you just reduce their DPS by 60-75%.
Running runes of melandru.. but you were way off about veggie pizza. Lemongrass poultry soup is the good stuff for dealing with conditions… But there are still other classes (not Mesmer) that have huge issues with thieves.
Apparently the izerker has suffered a damage ninja nerf in this patch.
All clones/phants are bugged in WvW right now, none have weapons. They run up to stuff and smack them with their fists. I think it’s actually calculating their damage with no weapon equiped :/ It’s also not doing a whirl finisher. Pretty sure this is a bug and not a nerf.
I freaking hope so… This is a huge issue that has the potential to kill half the builds in the Mesmer class…
Dude, I am not talking about any change, I am talking about a big enough change to satisfy everyone, which will screw over thieves
Don’t touch the debuff… Let the amount of time in stealth remain the same… But for the love of god they need to remove some of the perks of stealth… Thieves can get regen/condi removal/speed buff/ability to blind when stealthing… All revolving around stealth…Its kind of like how the devs said that ele’s bunker build as a whole wasn’t extremely OP but the little things that all added up is what killed it. Now I know that thieves can’t get all these perks in one build but I know that they can get quite a few still… I know that to be 100% crit from stealth requires 30pts into a trait line.. But I also know that aside from that they can spend the other 40 where they please… I just want some of the perks of stealth to be addressed while still not killing the class as a whole… And seriously Mug needs to be moved up at least one tier…
This build (2 ppl me and pyro) a guardian and a ranger wiped I think 5-6 people fairly quick in WvW.. it was quite hilarious… how many mesmers here are on DB?
Fine zerker is nerfed… Prestige is buffed still on a stupid long cooldown and iMage is situational at best… Great dandy. These guys have prime time pro testers! SERIOUSLY? Do they just not have a QA guy to play the freaking Mesmer? And the stupid CnD is still freaking working off the walls for thief in WvW. So they nerfed eles… Kinda… Fixed thieves stealthing off walls in wvw? Nope! Buffed up a weapon that few people still use destroyed one of our two longrange options, and made the auto attack on spear useless….. 2 buffs… compared to at least 4 HUGE HUGE bugs that they should have seen as soon one of their pro (lol) testers played on their Mesmer for more than 5 freaking minutes! Hey everyone welcome to freaking thief wars too. Bugs I know for sure
1. Zerker Nerf
2. No illusions have no weapons in W3
4. Spear completely misses underwater
5. Feedback Teleports mesmers to their target depending on what the necro they are fighting is doing.
Okay then you are taking away any reliable swiftness durations mesmers get from their runes because (centaur/air) they have the worst mobility in game… Veggie pizza will look into.. but consumables have been nerfed not sure if it will be more or less help. In any case we should not have to rely on veggie pizzas to help with freaking condition removal… I know that mesmer condi removal is meant to be sub par compared to other classes because we are so overpowered (lol) other wise…. But the fact that mesmers have to go sooo heavily into traits to even come close thieves/eles condi removal (the classes with the lowest HP). Can we beat a p/d thief… I imagine so… But we have to build to do nothing but counter P/d thieves… Now if traited our focus can mitigate a lot of the initial damage but since the focus skills have a (somewhat) long cooldown the thief can reopen with the burst later in the fight (3 seconds) and all our initial damage mitigation is gone… I appreciate your input on going to counter this.. but it is not as much of a help as I would hope… Not dismissing it and I will try the veggie pizzas out for sure… But P/d thief is a huge weakness to mesmers.
Seriously we have very low access to damage outside of shatters and the zerker was a huge help in catching people… but seriously… why can’t they put stuff in updates or just do the buffs without killing our more useful weapons.
@Pedra. Oh don’t worry mesmers got hosed in this patch. Sure prestige and mirror are nice things. But they destroyed some staples to our class. Clones don’t have weapons in WvW anymore so the distraction factor is gone to any player with half a brain. Our spear #1 chain does not hit AT ALL making it useless, and Phantasmal Bezerker got nerfed and is no longer a combo finisher… NONE of these were in patch notes… So yeah they buffed us but they fudged up more than they improved us… It’s ridiculous.
Also Mesmer iZerker is doing less damage… No clones in WvW are spawning with weapons on top of the current bugs… This all needs addressed ASAP because while the buffs to the prestige were cool.. More stuff got screwed up than buffed… Nice. REAL NICE>
IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.
I mage is good in Pvp on single targets and in some PvE situations… But it is not a good catch all like the focus or the pistol… It doesn’t really have that insane crowd control you can get from TC or Magic Bullet with the extra bounce… The torch only really has the blind for one attack but the new buff makes it a little bit better.
Try doing F3 then F1… The 15 minor trait in Dom stacks vuln for each illusion shattered… So it magnifies the damage much better than chaining F1 and F2…
Everyone continuously post in this bug especially those that are big in W3… This is a huge disadvantage for us making clones useless as distractions to any player with half a brain seeing as staves are usually taller than the character model… Sooo lame.
Ahem…. Thieves can still build tanky as heck but deal insane damage from backstab… They can build condition P/D thieves… The problem with the stealth as a base mechanic isn’t too terrible… But when combined with all the increased bonuses that thieves can get while being in stealth is insane… the other class with second most access to stealth has to go 30 deep into a trait line to get bonuses from stealth… (Mesmers) And they still can not hit into stealth nearly as often as a thief… And combined with culling (mesmers get less bonus from this because they don’t get a damage bonus from stealth) thieves become way harder to kill… More so than they should be! And mesmer has some of the worst (Worst?) in game mobility… Making our stealth just a way to prolong the inevitable that we will be found not long after we break stealth especially now that our clones have NO weapons in wvw and seriously wtf is up with that? It’s kind of like what the Dev’s said about bunker ele’s that they get a bunch of small things to make them too good… Same is said for thieves ATM… The base of stealth isn’t bad but the added bonuses they get from being in stealth combined with culling/model rendering is what is so infuriating for anyone that has to deal with this in WvW
had it happen in wvw it was quite hilarious and i ignore it because the clone of the enemy did blah damage as a mesmer would know that … Due to the damage from confusion being half in pvp compared to wvw /pve running a scepter is useless to a mesmer… So you wont see it much… If the scepter/confusion had some form of minor buff in pvp then maybe more mesmers would run scepter/torch… but atm I don’t really see it happening
Mesmer clones brought into a more balanced state for WvW play.
Excuse me? CLONE. An identical copy of another person… Clones use to do significant damage but that was nerfed long ago… Clones have NEVER carried the players off hand weapon and clones attack rate has ALWAYS been slower… These alone have been infuriating for mesmers… Our underwater clones don’t have tridents if they spawn… This new bug is a huge disadvantage for mesmers which is crippling when fighting any player that is halfway competent… I am sorry this has to be a bug.
Seriously? Ugh So what would be the point of using a staff clone now? seriously. HOW DO THEY MANAGE TO MESS THIS UP? Did they some how confuse themselves with torch fix and clone visual.. Also… When the kitten am i going o have trident clones with weapons… And i cant hit kitten with the spear anymore.
What Im confused about is how this thread is supposed to be about stealth in WvW and how it came to purely focus on the thief. The thing is I think Veil is the most OP stealth ability in the game.
Veil has a 90 second cd with a 4 second stealth duration… 5 second if the Mesmer traits for it even then it only affects him… Most mesmers only use it at the request of their party members because the cooldown is obscenely long for a slot skill and the utility is minimal at best when compared to nullfield/feedback… You are also forgetting engi’s can do the same thing as veil when they toss an elixir… and Rangers can hide in plain sight… The difference here is the skills are not spammable and the players get no ADDED benefit of being in stealth other than hey you can’t see me… No extra damage in their attacks no condition removal from being stealthed nothing like that… Thief gets most perks and spammable stealth in game which makes sense to a degree but they need to take out some of the perks of stealth that are specific to a thief class. That is why they get griped about the most… Sure veil and the toss elixir are great… but nowhere near as potent as thief stealth skills.
Your obviously very inexperienced in WvW. Please talk to me when you are experienced and know what your talking about.
Actually WvW is all I do.. DB tier three. Yeah we are losing to FA but that isn’t it. Do i beat thieves? Sure do I lose to annoying stealth theves yeah because most of my high damage skills require a target. On a mesmer we have the prestige… 24 sec cooldown if traited and stealths us for 3 seconds and if the AOE burn hits we get the debuff…. Veil which can be 5 seconds if traited 30 points into the Chaos tree 90 Second cooldown… The advantage here is we can stealth a limitless number of people but the duration of the curtain and the stealth are short that they only give a quick opener advantage. Then we have decoy which is also on a fairly long cooldown… Then we have mass invis… Which most solo mesmers use over timewarp but it still has that 5 man cap… So lets say a mesmer traits fully into stealth! That means that with being fully traited for som stealth a mesmer can be stealthed for 22 seconds straight… after that they have to wait at least 20+more seconds to restealth and even then it will be for a short time… Thieves can spam it every three seconds… Thieves get a bonus in damage from being in stealth… No other class does. I do as much WvW and expierementing with fights and builds there. But good for you you are in tier one… nice zerg!
Please stop talking. You are just constantly saying stupid kitten and demonstrating how little you know.
Please elaborate for me how I am demonstrating how little I know? Am i giving incorrect information? On the mesmer I am sure that I am not… Why? Because that is what I play in wvw. We can stealth second most in a fight but get no damage bonuses and our stealthing ability is most certainly not spammable every three seconds in a long fight… If we use it all in the opening of the fight then we are screwed other wise we have… The thief needs to get some sort of nerf when it comes to stealth… I’ve always wondered why the trait to move 50% faster was there… When was the last time you have heard of a FAST sneaky person? Most examples of people being sneaky require them to move slow. make the trait so the thief moves 50% slower but can deal double the current backstab damage… Seriously I have a thief… Not to 80 but its just silly how easy it is for me to reset the fight.
What Im confused about is how this thread is supposed to be about stealth in WvW and how it came to purely focus on the thief. The thing is I think Veil is the most OP stealth ability in the game.
Veil has a 90 second cd with a 4 second stealth duration… 5 second if the Mesmer traits for it even then it only affects him… Most mesmers only use it at the request of their party members because the cooldown is obscenely long for a slot skill and the utility is minimal at best when compared to nullfield/feedback… You are also forgetting engi’s can do the same thing as veil when they toss an elixir… and Rangers can hide in plain sight… The difference here is the skills are not spammable and the players get no ADDED benefit of being in stealth other than hey you can’t see me… No extra damage in their attacks no condition removal from being stealthed nothing like that… Thief gets most perks and spammable stealth in game which makes sense to a degree but they need to take out some of the perks of stealth that are specific to a thief class. That is why they get griped about the most… Sure veil and the toss elixir are great… but nowhere near as potent as thief stealth skills.
Your obviously very inexperienced in WvW. Please talk to me when you are experienced and know what your talking about.
Actually WvW is all I do.. DB tier three. Yeah we are losing to FA but that isn’t it. Do i beat thieves? Sure do I lose to annoying stealth theves yeah because most of my high damage skills require a target. On a mesmer we have the prestige… 24 sec cooldown if traited and stealths us for 3 seconds and if the AOE burn hits we get the debuff…. Veil which can be 5 seconds if traited 30 points into the Chaos tree 90 Second cooldown… The advantage here is we can stealth a limitless number of people but the duration of the curtain and the stealth are short that they only give a quick opener advantage. Then we have decoy which is also on a fairly long cooldown… Then we have mass invis… Which most solo mesmers use over timewarp but it still has that 5 man cap… So lets say a mesmer traits fully into stealth! That means that with being fully traited for som stealth a mesmer can be stealthed for 22 seconds straight… after that they have to wait at least 20+more seconds to restealth and even then it will be for a short time… Thieves can spam it every three seconds… Thieves get a bonus in damage from being in stealth… No other class does. I do as much WvW and expierementing with fights and builds there. But good for you you are in tier one… nice zerg!
The thing about rendering is sure you may see the animations but you rarely get a target… Its quite absurd… and most people I hear griping about how short the revealed debuff is in wvw are ones with very good machines so its still a server issue and not a client issue.
What Im confused about is how this thread is supposed to be about stealth in WvW and how it came to purely focus on the thief. The thing is I think Veil is the most OP stealth ability in the game.
Veil has a 90 second cd with a 4 second stealth duration… 5 second if the Mesmer traits for it even then it only affects him… Most mesmers only use it at the request of their party members because the cooldown is obscenely long for a slot skill and the utility is minimal at best when compared to nullfield/feedback… You are also forgetting engi’s can do the same thing as veil when they toss an elixir… and Rangers can hide in plain sight… The difference here is the skills are not spammable and the players get no ADDED benefit of being in stealth other than hey you can’t see me… No extra damage in their attacks no condition removal from being stealthed nothing like that… Thief gets most perks and spammable stealth in game which makes sense to a degree but they need to take out some of the perks of stealth that are specific to a thief class. That is why they get griped about the most… Sure veil and the toss elixir are great… but nowhere near as potent as thief stealth skills.
Culling is barely even a problem in small scale fights yet people continue to whine about it cause they are bad. Sorry kid, I suggest you roll a thief and learn how to properly counter them instead of whining on the forums.
Nope… even in bunker builds when you actually outlast the initial burst damage in 1v1’s the thief still takes longer to render on your screen than he does to break stealth from his screen…
You ppl are kitten for this… u do releize that stealth exsist in almost all morpgs?? U all think its bad on here then dont every play daoc or wow, prob just rage quit lol… the thiefs job in pvp, wvw, whatever is the same as any other game… they are there to thin the herd, just like a lion, do u think he goes after the biggest strongest wildabeast in the herd no he goes after the weak sickly one… that is the thief, shame on u ppl!
Read a few posts above where thieves claimed that they were supposed to be hard counters to the bunkers that they can bring down so quick. Please. I beg you.
People talk about culling like it’ll be fixed next week. 7 something months now. Its very possible it will never be fixed
if this be the case than the thief class needs to have certain mechanics changed. This would entail some nerfs but also several buffs… And new abilities… I would rather Anet admit that something is wrong rather than the simple moving of it to another thread… Mesmers and rangers and Engi’s all have some access to stealth but not as spammable as the thief and the only bonus we get from being in stealth is just that well you can’t see us. Thieves get huge bonuses for being in stealth plus the ability to move 50% faster while stealthed while still having the 25% speed increase from sig of midnight… This is faster than any other consistent speed boost in game.
Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.
Are you sure you’re not describing D/D eles?
Exactly… well kind of exactly… The combination of how the stealth mechanic works in this game plus culling is what makes it terrible… I’d prefer they find a way to get a hard fix to culling then see how the thief complaints proceed… Also before anyone says it only happens in zergs.. it happens in small 1v1s as well its just how the system works… Several times I am fighting a thief and you can see the animation from his pistol shots but the model and ability to target is just not there yet…
This would be fine except yeah that thief showed up INSTANTLY on his screen and thieves slowly render into view on the enemies screen. I am not going to say that the thief class as a whole is brokenly OP but the implementation they have of how models are rendered in WvW plus the fact that when a player goes stealth it completely removes the fact that the player is there from the enemy client is where the real problem is here. That thief was most likely visible to his enemies for 1-1.5 seconds each time… if that. So that is what makes this OP. yes he was going after the squishier looking targets blah blah blah… its a fundamental systemic flaw right now.
Edit: yeah this is PvP and wins shouldn’t be handed to players but 9 times out of 10 they are handed to a thief whether they want to admit it or not.
I vote whoever opened this thread should now close it So that the community doesn’t catch on. :P lol. But honestly I really do hope that it gets fixed because it will be yet another reason for people to hate mesmers.
My defensively spec’d Engineer has been dropped in under 3 seconds by a thief before. All vitality and toughness. I literally got to see the final heartseeker and that is it. No other classes has ever taken down that engineer even close to that fast. Heck I’ve eaten damage from groups of people and survived before on that build.
The general design of the game seems to be that every build has a hard counter, even ones stacking vit/tough. If vit/toughness couldnt be countered by extreme single target burst then the game would just gravitate towards becoming Bunker Wars 2. I think more players should accept that fact (and I dont even run burst thief btw, though I love defensive builds).
The main reason EVERYONE is starting to gravitate toward these tough/vit/ type builds is the thieves that instagibbed them. You know what all the LOL OMGERED backstab thieves said when people griped about how they went down so fast? “Get some toughness we are designed to take out squishy targets” Ergo people took that advice and said Okay lemme go full bunker since even a balanced spec got burned through like a hot knife through butter. Now that people are giving examples of thieves destroying their bunker specs because of the broken stealth mechanic (take mesmer bunker builds… All require some form of target for us to be effective bunkers) the thieves just dismiss it as “Oh well we are supposed to be a hard counter to that bunker spec.” No just NO… all these people started bunkering up because you told them to and that it was a hard counter… Then all these people started packing stun breaks because you told them to and claimed it was another hard counter to thieves. Now you are saying that it is working as it should be for a thief to instantly destroy you from stealth before the client even registers you are there? RIDICULOUS. Seriously get over yourselves and start to think about how OP your class is when combined with the messed up culling/rendering mechanics of WvW.
That’s the entire reason I hate how Commander’s get their rank…. It is bought with gold which to most people comes from gems which they get from pouring into this game. It should change but it won’t because it is most likely a HUGE supplement to ANet’s income simply because of the amount of commanders you have per server and the amount of servers there are. Now I am not saying that ALL commanders buy their books with Money>Gems>Gold some might actually farm… but that is ALOT of farming and most people won’t have that kind of gold in game. It should change to achievements related to WvW (especially capturing/defending structures not killing people).
It was made so you can’t interact with portal if there is an obstruction between you and the portal you are interacting with! Everything else is still the same… It can be placed and you can move around wherever you want and you don’t need any LOS anymore.
how do u know? and even if so that means there are 0 changes to mesmers in sPVP this patch?
and they don’t understand why people quit this stale crap.
in other mmos they release big pvp balance changes that make players want to come back to the game and test new specs etc
I know because a dev posted in mesmer forums where we fielded questions about it! And did you ever think that maybe they don’t see mesmer as OP in sPvP/tPvP? ALSO they said months ago that the portal mechanic was going to be spread to another class… Now because this game is 90% aesthetics they are going to have to find a unique way to give it to another class. What I would like to see instead of a sledgehammer nerf to portal/timewarp is just making portal an elite! That way the mesmers have to choose between the skills and this will also open up their skill bar to run skills that THEY want to use because portal/timewarp are all because your team says “MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THESE WHEN WE START!” its like hey thanks kitten for telling me how to play my class.
I wonder if the changes to retal were because of this mesmer build… I have 1v1’d several bunker guards and they don’t have retal up nearly as long as we do… I wonder if they were watching this build that closely.
Mesmer portal is now LOS? with the same cd? and no other changes?
haha this is a kittening joke. they just killed portal in spvp.
what happened to making other weapons viable?
wheres the rankings and ladder?
this game is dead, thankfully wow expansion is only $20 now , cyas
Um wot?
Sounds like they just made it bound to the same rules as shadowstepping, so you can’t go where you shouldn’t be able to.
It was made so you can’t interact with portal if there is an obstruction between you and the portal you are interacting with! Everything else is still the same… It can be placed and you can move around wherever you want and you don’t need any LOS anymore.
