Guild Wars 2

Indoles.1467:

Some of your data isn’t correct. Alpine wolf deals 4s chill, owl 6s, snow leopard 8s. Canines have 2s knockdown. And drakes … still useless. Stalker applies 5 stacks of might with 10s duration with a 3s cast time. It isn’t very good.

I wrote this while I was at work (don’t tell my boss :P), So I used the info from the wiki.

I’ll check back after I’ve confirmed the durations.

Your discontent with pets has also been noted.

EDIT: You were right about the chill durations, except for the alpine wolf’s Edited and gave you credit

Err… ok… thats a lot of data… o_O

To finish up the article, I’ll discuss the playstyle. After all, a dead pet is dead weight!

As mentioned earlier, the pet should be kept permanently on passive to increase it’s chances of survival. With this setup, you can actually trigger your pet’s Family Skill listed here by pressing F1. After they do their special attack, immediately press F3 to make them come back. Pets should not extend their stay inside melee range of the enemies as they will most likely die.

For ranged pets, you can make them act like a turret in the sense that you can “park” them in a spot and make them stay there by pressing F1 on spot you want them to stay in. They will stay in that spot until you either press F3 to call them back, or attempt to follow their target if it goes out of range. Remember that the pet will keep on attacking even if the enemy is in their face and is charging a nasty spell to 1 hit it! Make sure to call it back before the charge up finishes.

Oh-kay.. Is that it..?

One last thing: We can further improve our pets by using Malicious Training to increase the pet’s Condition Duration by 50%, and Concentration Training to increase our pet’s Boon Duration by 50%.

And that’s it! If you made it this far, thanks for reading my wonderful wall of text! I hope you gained some insight on pet uses as some of these applies to BM builds as well.

TL;DR – Use pets with conditions, keep pets on passive and press F1/F2 to use pet skills, press F3 after pet uses skill to keep it alive.

Now we get to the Moas! They should’ve been the best pet for this purpose with their heal, but sadly, it cannot be manipulated effectively. Because if it, they’re not the best pet for 5/0 BM builds, except maybe for the Red Moa and it’s amazing 15s Fury. The Red Moa is the only one I would recommend out of all the Moas, as the other screech is pretty hard to time to maximize their effects (3s protection) or make them hit (the daze and the chill).

Spider:
Family Skills – 3 second immobilize from 600-900 range(!) 20s cd and a slightly buggy 4 second Poison Field from 600-900 range! 20s cd.
Cave Spider – 5 seconds of Weakness and Vulnerability that could potentially last up to 10 seconds if both attacks hit. 30s cd.
Forest Spider – 6 seconds of Poison which could potentially last for 18 seconds if all 3 attacks hit. 30s cd.
Jungle Spider – Another 3 seconds of immobilize (!) kitten cd.

We’ve finally reached the end and we saved the best for last! Spider pets the best pets to use during boss fights as their snares and conditions go through Defiant. Think of them as mobile Net Turrets that trades more snares for damage/conditions. I learned of their amazing use when I did CoE in a party that had no heavies. I thought of using spiders because of their inherent immobilize skill and I asked the other ranger in the party to do the same. We were able to kite the Champion Ice Brood Hound really well because it spent most of it’s time getting chain-immobilized. We had 12 seconds of Immobilize across 2 Jungle Spiders before swapping, after which we had 6 seconds more in addition to poison, vulnerability and weakness. It opened my eyes to the viability of Spider pets in dungeons that needed CC for bosses. I originally wrote this article with Jungle Spiders in mind, and then later expanded to the other pets upon studying their various skills.

*Update June 25: With the update to weakness, Forest Spider is the easiest way to get weakness from leaping through the poison field and or applying it directly from it’s F2.

Drake:
Family Skills – The Ranger’s only Blast Finisher!, 30s cd. It also deals weakness with quite a bit of damage in a small AoE.
Ice Drake – 5 stacks of chill in a 250 cone in front of it, 25s cd.
Marsh Drake – Fires 5 projectiles that bounce twice, and gives 3 seconds of poison per hit. 30s cd. This skill is one of the easier to aim because it tracks it’s enemies and can hit behind it!*
Reef Drake – 5 stacks of Confusion, 25s cd. The Ranger’s direct way to access confusion. With the cast time buff on pet F2 skills, it’s easier to hit this but it still requires the target to stand still for 1.5 seconds for the charge up, and another 1-2 seconds for the confusion to stack up.
River Drake – Damage!, 30s cd. I wasn’t planning on including a pet that didn’t have a condition, but River Drake gets a pass because it has an amazing F2 skill that can track enemies similar to the Marsh Drake’s. It’s also a really AoE attack so it’s worth mentioning.
Salamander Drake – 5 seconds of burning with quite a bit of damage, 30s cd. This is supposed to be the strongest Breathe attack, but it is really hard to aim that I don’t use it that much.

Ah the Drakes, once useless, now oh so useful! The Drakes are our only source of Blast Finishers and they are really good for that purpose. It isn’t a targetted blast finish though, so don’t expect to use it for pre-buffing on fire fields. It’s more useful for AoE Healing in conjunction with Healing Spring. The setup is cast Healing Spring near an enemy, and make your drake attack that enemy while it is on the water field. Easily pulled off during boss fights in Dungeons! Special mention goes to River Drake because even in its nerfed state, it’s still a really hard hitting skill.

*Update June 25: No longer tracks enemies behind it.

Feline:
Family Skills – 5 seconds of Vulnerability on auto attack, and 4 stacks of bleed (10s duration) every 20 seconds.
Jaguar – 6 seconds invisibility, +25% crit chance, 30s cd.
Jungle Stalker – 5 stacks of might with 5 second duration, 30s cd.
Lynx – 4 stacks of bleeds, 10s duration, 30s cd.
Snow Leopard – 8 second chill, a bit of damage, 30s cd.

I used to strongly discourage using Felines because of how squishy they were pre-April patch. Now that they’re much more survivable, they are viable pets for builds with no points in BM. They still deal the highest DPS out of all pets so whenever you need high DPS and there aren’t really that many threats, Felines are your best bet. Also, Lynx has a really long lasting bleed, along with pretty decent damage.

note: Thanks to Indoles.1467 for pointing out Icy Pounce is 8 seconds chill

Moa:
Family Skills – 2 stacks of Vulnerability for 10 seconds, 20s cd, and a 3k~ heal in a 240 AoE, 40s cd that is very hard to manipulate.
Black/Pink Moa – 2 second daze in a cone, 30s cd
Blue Moa – 3 second protection in a about 360 AoE, 40s cd
Red Moa – 15 seconds of Fury in 360 AoE! 30s cd One of the best pet buffs!
White Moa – 3 second chill in about 360 AoE, 24s cd
NOTE: The AoE is a personal observation, it might be wrong

Porcine:
Family Skills – 3 second AoE Knock Down in a small arc, 40s cd.
All the forage skills are unaffected by Beastmastery so they all are still working on 100% efficiency without it. Read up on pigs on my Porcine Pet Guide! /shameless plug

For our purposes though, the Warthog and the Siamoth are best suited for this, since their Forage items are usable at range and allows us to stay out of range for most of the nasty AoEs. Pigs are also one of the better pets to use on a BM 5/0 build because of it’s Knock Down, available on every swap!* The downside to them, though, is that their Brutal Charge seems less accurate than the Canine version, as the skill starts from about 600-900 range away from the target, while the Canine’s version makes them leap from 350 range away from the enemy and has a less noticeable charge up animation.
EDIT: A recent discovery shows that the Knockdown from pigs has a small AoE so it can knockdown multiple foes!
*Note: This no longer applies because ANet fixed pet cooldowns when stowed

Canine:
Family Skills – 2 second knockdown, 40s cd, more accurate as mentioned in the pig section, and 5 second cripple, 20s cd.
Alpine Wolf – 2 second chill in 500 AoE, 30s cd.
Fern Hound – 10 second Regenerate, 25s cd.
Hyena – Summons a hyena ally, 45 second cd. More knockdown machines!
Krytan Drakehound – 2 second immobilize in 500 AoE, 20s cd.
Wolf – 2 second fear in 500 AoE, 45 second cd.

The Canine Family is my personal favorite when running 5/0 BM Builds, because they add so much utility from their Knock Down alone. A recent thread has shown that they have the best kill time on moving targets because of their innate cripple. Drakehound + Wolf is what I usually use when roaming in WvW. Don’t be afraid to use the drakehound howl as it has a pretty big AoE and it has a fairly short cooldown.

note: Thanks to Indoles.1467 for pointing out Canine KnockDown is 2 seconds

Devourer:
Family Skills – none that can be manipulated, although 10% chance of poison from their normal attack is nice.
Carrion Devourer – 5 second Poison Field, 30s cd
Lashtail Devourer – 7 stacks of 5s bleeds, 30s cd
Whiptail Devourer – pet version of Shortbow #2, 30s cd. Fires 5 barbs, each barb puts 2 seconds of poison.

Devourers are the pets with the highest toughness and this is what keeps them viable even without points in Beastmastery. They are also the best pets to use for Rampage As One since their normal attack counts as 2 hits, and it gives out 2 stacks of Might per attack! Best of all, is that “hits” made by the Carrion Devourer’s Poison Field will also trigger the Might section of the elite skill. I could get 25 stacks of Might very quickly if the devourer is able to hit a mob of 3 or more inside the AoE of the Poison Cloud, in addition to it’s normal attack. This also applies to the Murellow’s, but the Murellow doesn’t have the double Might per attack that the Carrion Devourer gives.

Still not convinced. Prove it!

We now focus on what pets can give even without points in Beastmastery.

If you go through the List of Pet Skills in the wiki, you will notice that nearly all of the pet skill have a bonus effect, which is either condition for the target, or a boon for itself/allies. Those are what needs to be utilized when there’s no points in BM.

IMPORTANT: It should be noted, however, that pets are particularly vulnerable in this state so they should be kept in passive mode permanently, and their skills should be used on command, even their non-F2 skills.

*Update Post April Patch: Since the survivability of pets have been improved, you can actually set your pets on agressive now, but you have to press F3 often to keep them in check. Its still a good idea to keep them on passive to control who/when pets attack though!

Contrary to popular belief, Pet AI is actually predictable and can be manipulated, to an extent. Pets will likely try use their high cooldown skill, if it is an offensive spell. This means that drakes will most likely use Tail Swipe first when they are activated, and Canines will likely use Brutal Charge first to knockdown enemies.

What this means, is we have Knock Down and a Blast Finisher available to us with 5/0 Points in Beastmastery. And it is not limited to just that. Here’s what each of the families/specific pets can bring to the table:

Bears:
Family Skills – none that can be manipulated
Black Bear – 10s Weakness in a 600 AoE, 45 second cd.
Brown Bear – Remove 1 condition in 600 AoE, 25s cd.
Murellow – 6 second poison field, 35s cd. This is my personal favorite, for reasons i will mention in the Carrion Devourer section.
Polar Bear – 3 second chill in a 600 AoE, 45 second cd.

Bears have been considered the worst pet for a while now because of they have the lowest DPS and really slow attack animations. With the recent changes to ranger utilities, things may have changed since then. The “Protect Me” shout is best used with bears because they are very likely to survive the 6 seconds that the shout is active. Murellow has always been my favorite because of the poison field, with Black Bear a close second because of the new Weakness. Rangers have been known to have really bad condition cleanse and Brown Bear happens to have an AoE condition cleanse every 25 seconds. The only bear that hasn’t changed in status is the Polar Bear because a 3 second chill on a kitten cd just doesn’t cut it.

Bird:
Family Skills – 10 seconds of Swiftness.
Owl – 6 second chill, with quite a bit of damage, 20s cd.
Raven (Regular/White) – 5 seconds of blindness, 18s cd.
Eagle/Hawk – 2 bleed stacks, 15 seconds duration, 6s cd.

In the first version of this guide, I strongly discouraged using birds because of their lower hp, even though Quickening Screech was useful. With the survivability of birds buffed, they are a very nice utility pet. The blind and chill they bring last a decent suration and are on pretty fast cooldowns. They used to be great for spike damage (dealing over 4k with their double crits), but they were toned down for the June patch. Special mention goes to Eagle/Hawk because they have really long bleeds on very short cooldowns. They are very nice pets to use when the enemy has really crazy condition cleanse.

note: Thanks to Indoles.1467 for pointing out Owl’s Chill is 6 seconds

Chopps.5047:

jubskie.3152:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

jubskie.3152:

To be fair, the other classes didn’t get Robert Hrouda to post in their respective forums. One problem at a time guys.

I’d gladly welcome pet changes over any of the other stuff you listed since they’re active all the time.

It’s a sad day when Rangers are glad they have people talking/listening to them rather than actual changes.

What am I talking about? It’s business as usual. I’m glad I rerolled a engineer and have a kitted-out thief in storage.

So let me get this straight, for 4 months we get nothing and now we do and we’re not supposed to be happy? :/

Also in the vid: They say that Longbow has nothing to protect itself with and they’re buffing utilities so it can protect the ranger to a certain extent. And then there’s the buff going to maul in both damage and condition duration.

inb4 more QQ about “thats not what i want!”

I’ve played this game since the start and have noticed more than a few changes and I don’t even read the patch notes. I don’t want to be mean, it just frustrates me when people mAke wild, emotionally charged claims on this forum. We did not get nothing in 4 months, my friend. And the devs have repeatedly acknowledged the difficultly in balancing ranger because it turns out to be very easy to make the profession OP. Instead, much like their culling system, they have to give the whole profession a look—not just pets or weapons. And then they need to test, test, test…and some of those tests will turn out to be failures but every idea is a springboard. I, for one, confident ANET will once again impress everyone. They are on a hot streak!

Your post is emotionally charged as well :P

If you read the quoted texts again you will notice that my statement “nothing for 4 months” was referring to the lack of red posts in the Ranger Section of the forums, not to changes in-game. I actually like the changes already made and I’ve been using Axe/Axe now when I never even gave it a thought before.

nerva.7940:

Way too much crying in this thread. Look at what they said:

- gc rangers are weak due to bad utilities (true ranger utilities are the worst among all profs)

- maul is getting cond and instant dmg buff; more cd reductions (we all said gs is great just needs more damage)

- lb needs buffs (true)

- pet agony resistance (why not)

The only point that needed specific addressing is spirits. Im hoping this will fall under utility fixes. Overall they have a decent grasp of ranger issues. Could always be better.

Agreed! (Especially that part I bolded :P)

ChillyChinaman.6057:

jubskie.3152:

To be fair, the other classes didn’t get Robert Hrouda to post in their respective forums. One problem at a time guys.

I’d gladly welcome pet changes over any of the other stuff you listed since they’re active all the time.

It’s a sad day when Rangers are glad they have people talking/listening to them rather than actual changes.

What am I talking about? It’s business as usual. I’m glad I rerolled a engineer and have a kitted-out thief in storage.

So let me get this straight, for 4 months we get nothing and now we do and we’re not supposed to be happy? :/

Also in the vid: They say that Longbow has nothing to protect itself with and they’re buffing utilities so it can protect the ranger to a certain extent. And then there’s the buff going to maul in both damage and condition duration.

inb4 more QQ about “thats not what i want!”

To be fair, the other classes didn’t get Robert Hrouda to post in their respective forums. One problem at a time guys.

I’d gladly welcome pet changes over any of the other stuff you listed since they’re active all the time.

Stooperdale.3560:

Agree with the original poster. The ‘auto-attack is your own fault’ line doesn’t fool me. It’s bad design and should be fixed.

…and you “fix” it by turning it off. The way I see it, the way ANet “fixes” this “bad design” is to set auto attack to off by default.

Minos.5168:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

EDIT/UPDATE:
Turns out there is currently a health discrepancy between the white raven and black raven – I was checking our current information for our next patch, which showed that they were the same.
Right now it is true though, they have a bit less HP. Our next patch will address and fix this.

It’s nice that 7 months after release, this minor discrepancy is finally getting fixed.

Keep in mind, the black widow spider also has a discrepancy when compared with the regular pet.

This was already addressed

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Arifialdy.1534:

robert if you already at the raven, please check the black widow spider to, it has very low health, while the other spider is 37xx he is just 13xx, make it worsT spider to use, please take care of this cause this is my best HOM reward

Zounds! You are correct! But that was also foreseen by the designer who fixed the White Raven, so expect that to be fixed as well next patch!

i know its a bit self-centered, but i hope you saw my suggestions posted above. XD

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Robert-Hrouda-on-pets-in-dungeons/page/3#post1575902

Also, I’ve noticed recently that if you command a pet to attack, then you move away from that spot, pets do an awkward turn (going to your original position) before finally going to the ranger. that kinda messes up the timing for dodging red circles

just to add to the discussion, I remember there being several good suggestions before.

1. Have the pet rally off of the ranger’s kills.
   - Might be a bit OP in PvE if there are a lot of trash mobs around
   - Absolutely useless in boss fights where there are no adds. (like the CoF P3 final boss)
2. Have the downed pet get hp when the ranger uses a healing skill.
   - Given the cooldown of ranger healing skills, it will effectively cut down the rez time in half if the pet can be resurrected with 2 Healing Springs.
   - Will require Signet of Wild since it still gives passive regeneration to the pet even when its downed.
3. Have a limit to the amount of damage a pet so it can’t be instakilled. Similar to the way pets are in D3.
   - No more one-shots
   - Multiple big hits can still kill the pet (overlapping Alpha AoE)

Each has advantages and disadvantages, just throwing these out there for discussion

Pets with buff/heal F2 skills now cast them immediately without having to move near your target enemy

Arpheus.6918:

Oh I love how our pets now react to stealth. Thiefs hate it when my pet immediately chases them again the moment they leave stealth. It also indicates me in which direction the thief is no matter how much culling there is.
I didn’t have the opportunity to fight a mesmer yet in WvW but IF the pet doesn’t lose the mesmer even after stealth ranger might immediately know which is the real one and be able to chase him down. I’m not sure about the mesmers but against thiefs it’s great really.

JOY! \o/

I was hoping it would be like that! XD

• I noticed that pets now have 1s cd when you stow-reactivate them. (it had 15s recharge before)

Anyone else find anything?

With the heavy focus on Regeneration, it looks like you made an attrition build. With only 10 in BM.. I’m assuming this is a support build?

I gotta tell you, this is definitely unorthodox and I’ve never seen a build that was made that way until now. With everyone focusing on damage, a support ranger is definitely a welcome sight

What will you this build for, though? PvE, PvP or WvW?

EDIT: Also, thank you for the hat tip, but ranger aren’t really all that bad.

Thanks for the detailed post about the Kudzu’s graphical issues

I’m 43 Icy Runestones away from it so its too late for me to back away now XD

And yes, I do hope that more legendaries get revamped as well!

With the bug fix on the bundle bug in today’s patch, I think Pigs should get another look from players. Has anyone found new techniques on how to effectively use Pig pets?

I saw the patchnotes, and I would just like to say thank you to Robert Hrouda. You went and did what you promised and it got launched in today’s patch

@mods feel free to close this anytime

I’ll just leave this here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Skirmish-With-a-Longbow/first#post1431247

Longbows can be used in 1v1s too You just have to remember that weapon switching should be maximized to effectively fight in melee or in range

Can you replicate it consistently? I’ve never had it happen to me before. Although, I only swap utilities for boss fights, and they’re usually ready to be used.

It might be better to post this in the bug section though since it might not be a ranger only bug.

Interesting results.. pretty much agrees with the consensus that cats are the best offensive pet. What surprised me though is that drakes and birds are pretty close both in F2 and non-F2 categories.

Hope you can expand your tests so we can get more informed choices when picking pets

Since your other questions have been answered, I’ll focus on..

Murellows are awesome! They have one of the really good F2 skills and are really tanky. Best part is that people dont know that they are actually bears and mistake them for canines :P

Here’s one of my favorite shots of my beloved Murellow, Beautiful Inside:

Picking a Ranger is picking 2 characters to control. If you don’t like pets, picking a different class might be better for you. Pets are integral to rangers and choosing to neglect them is like choosing to fight with only one hand.

Pets are really powerful if you learn how to use them and keep them alive

I hope all the QQers and closed minded people stay on this thread

I like the positivity and actual discussion slowly emerging in the Ranger section without every other post being “boo hoo ranger sux”.

Most of the people here seem to ignore the fact that we were already given buffs, it’s just not the buffs that they wanted. Yes, more changes are needed but its not as bad as the posts here make it out to be.

I think the way its coded now, it was intended to be helpful to players instead adding additional micro.

Imagine using a lynx when you’re 900 range away. The way it is now, if it was by your side it will walk up to the enemy first to get in range, then use it’s F2 skill. If you change it to immediately use the F2, it will hit nothing but air since the enemy is out of range.

That said, I hope they improve the AI (like being able to distinguish between support skills and offensive skills as mentioned in this reddit post ). Or even better is they make it customizable like the Gambit System in FF12.

GJ on the vids, I enjoyed watching them

I’ve been using LB/GS for a long time now in WvW as well. LB has been my favorite weapon since i started using it when I reached 80. I just feel it has more oomph than a shortbow. GS just adds so much mobility to rangers that it makes it really hard for me to swap it for something else.

It’s not a “cleave,” but Murellow has a 5 second poison field thats casted in melee, and the Carrion Devourer has a poison field thats casted at range. These are the pets I use if I need poison or if I need AoE damage.

This was already discussed before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Stealth-update-pet-F2-skills

This is a UI bug, not ranger nerf

Thee.4826:

Thank you for the post. It’s truly an eye-opener, I never even thought of recalling my pet before the aoe strikes… dumb… but well, now I know better haha. Thanks again, I will surely try out your strategies. Hope the forum has more posts like yours.

Glad you liked it, and I hope more new rangers see this

Also, I updated the post to remove the thing about Drakes being bugged, coz they got fixed

Mourningcry.9428:

Part of the strategy should be to not get knocked into the lava.

No changes required here.

Revise & rethink group strategy/positioning.

As mentioned by someone else, its not the strategy or positioning that needs to be addressed. Its the impossible-to-be-resurrected issue with the new system I’m complaining about. You tick for 12k/second while in lava even when fully defeated.

putting this here as feedback:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Tribune-Burntclaw-CoF-P3-and-no-res-mechanic/first#post1320997

tl;dr: no way to be rezzed when you die in lava in final boss fight in CoF p3

While I generally like the no-rez while in combat mechanic, final boss fight in CoF Path 3 needs to be revised. The way it is now, when you die in the lava, your allies have no way to rez you because you’re ticking for 12k damage every second.

And no, this is not a QQ thread about the no-rez mechanic. This is a complaint about having no way to be resurrected when you die in lava.

GJ on compiling all of this info! I was surprised to see my name on your intro XD

Also, if you can figure out how to anchor the left side of the spreadsheet so the pet type shows, it would add so much more usability to your info. (I’ve been trying to figure it out myself, but I never really looked into it that much XD)

And lastly, are you going to add the forage items for each pig? I compiled a list already here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Pet-Mini-Guide-1-Porcine-Pets/first

Pretty nice guide! Personally, I just use birds as most people tend to not notice them and focus on me while they get pecked to death XD

Lysico.4906:

Sorry but you forgot about drakes in Wpvp.

They have a very nice aoe attack along with strong f2. With guard you can throw on up on the wall or down on a ram and get massive aoe damage.
o
They are also pretty sturdy. I am not a fan of running around with one from point to point, but in keep take/defense, they are pretty solid.

Unfortunately, drakes are bugged and only use their normal attack and the F2 skill.

Pretty good guide, I started using the GS block more often now

Ursan.7846:

Himei.5379:

Tip for Kholer also, If you have a shortbow equipped, save skill 3 for when you fail to dodge and get pulled. Use 3 right away and you will always live to continue the fight.

Does this really work? When you get pulled in you’re knocked down and can’t use your skills while he spins on you.

Yes it works. You can also just roll out of the AoE

phandaria.4891:

That does it for me when Anet limits buffs to 5 entities. (Not sure if its fixed yet)

That is actually intended and its in the patchnotes.

There’s one time when pet simply takes away buffs from your party member, now since its prioritize party member, you can hardly buff your pet in dungeons.

That is actually intended and its in the patchnotes.

If you really need buffs on your pet, 15 points in Nature Magic can fix it for you. Otherwise, buffing players is generally more helpful than buffing your pet. Players do have more damage than a pet after all.

Unless you’re running solo and you dont want to buff random people? The only time that would happen would be in world events, or in WvW zergs.

Or am i missing something?

bumping for new rangers!

Epic Cactus.9723:

okay, on to the 2nd post

1. Pets die in a few hits, unless you take a “tank” pet and/or have a truckload of points in BM
In Dungeons, even a bear and 30pts BM won’t survive more than 2 hits

Answered above.

Epic Cactus.9723:

2. a) In some cases, yes, though the Karka Champ pretty much onehits pets.

The point isn’t for the pet to damage it, just hold it long enough for you to get around it and harvest the node. Using the right pet for the job is important. If you use a bird or a cat for this, you’re not doing it right. Also, the only time the Karka Champ has 1-shotted my bear was when it did the jump-smash attack, and it uses that very rarely.

Epic Cactus.9723:

b) The pet will either do no damage, or die. Probably both. Search and Rescue is a bit on the unreliable side, and the pet’s revive speed is horrendous.

I don’t know how you manage your pets, but if it isn’t doing damage or is always dead, you’re definitely doing something wrong. Unless you somehow have pets that have 0 power stat, I doubt that it won’t do damage. Also, it looks like you haven’t been reading patch notes. S&R’s revive speed has been buffed and I’ve noticed that the Lick Wounds has been more reliable on slopes.

Epic Cactus.9723:

c) On the one hand, the pet takes forever to destroy the crystal, on the other hand it’ll have died to Alpha’s AEs anyway

Again, I have acknowledged that pet dies to 1 shot AoEs. Why not make the most of the situation and time your pet swaps?

Let’s assume that your pet has died. Swapping it will just make the next pet die in a few moments. So instead of swapping haphazardly, swap it in when you’re encased in crystal. If you have 5 points in BM, your pet should make short work of the crystal, even if it is a not a high damage pet. If not, and it dies midway, your allies now have less crystal hp to deal with.

Epic Cactus.9723:

d) That isn’t exactly helpful. Fun, maybe, but not useful. That’s like saying Mesmers are the best class because of pretty butterflies.

That isn’t exactly an argument either. I fail to see how keeping you in your post while still being able to farm is comparable to pretty butterflies.

Epic Cactus.9723:

3. In PvP / WvW you’re dead anyway, in PvE you must be very lucky for your pet to kill the monster before it kills you. When being downed, getting up quickly or preventing enemies from finishing me is more important than having some meager part of my dps still standing.

Again you leave out the fact that pets still have all their skills available to them. Wolves are pretty popular in sPvP because their F2 AoE fear works even if you are downed. So is their KD ability. And luck has nothing to do with pets killing enemies in PvE while I’m downed. Can you compare a cat’s 1k+ crits to any of the other classes’ down skill damage? Also, while your pet is DPSing, you’re free to use your 4 skill.

Epic Cactus.9723:

Now, if Lick Wounds was more reliable (and wouldn’t cause the Pet to drag the mob to you), that’d indeed be helpful

Answered above.

Lastly, since you said you didn’t read any other post, let me put this here:

jubskie.3152:

The purpose of this thread is not to say that “pets are fine as is,” but to say that “yes pets have issues, but they are still useable and not as bad as people make them out to be.” This thread will, hopefully, guide new rangers into seeing what pets are actually capable of.

Epic Cactus.9723:

first of all, I haven’t read all of this thread, just the OP, so I’m replying to his “counterpoints”

1. Just no. Even with a high damage pet, other classes outdps rangers easily on single targets. It’s even worse on multiple targets. Also, birds and felines, our most powerful pets, are made of paper and die pretty much the second an enemy looks at them (especially in dungeons)

I keep seeing this “other classes outdps rangers” argument so often, but I have never seen actual numbers and tests to support this. Care to make proof? I’m really interested if this is true. Also, I acknowledged that pet survival needs to be looked at, but you’re using glass cannon pet as an example to claim that pets die when “enemies look at them.”

Epic Cactus.9723:

2. So, by using low (pet snares) or no (muddy terrain) damage skills, we can (for a short while) counteract our pets problems with moving enemies? Tremendous.
Not to mention: Only one cat (Snow Leopard) and one bird (Owl) have slows, both are short (~3 sec) chill effects on relatively long CDs (20 / 30sec). Of course, one could switch to other pets, with better CC abilities, but they do less damage, evening the scales.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that while snaring enemies helps your pet, it also helps your ranger as it reduces obstructed issues. Not to mention your allies too. Yes, snare skills are tremendous indeed.

Epic Cactus.9723:

3. Pet swapping has a CD (shared with stow pet, btw). Also, by simply stowing the pet, it causes even less trouble.

I agree, but I don’t see how this is a problem? Jump down a cliff, pet swap. If you had your pet stowed, it will only appear when you get fall damage. Still not a problem.

Epic Cactus.9723:

4. Even with constant F1 / F3 to engage / disengage, the pet will die. While it is running around back and forth, it deals no damage, when there is an AoE effect, it will most likely still get hit (because no dodge). True, one can help the pet a bit with F1/F3, but it’s a very weak form of control, doesn’t replace dodge, and requires the player to not only to take care of his char, but also of an unresponsive pet, up to 1500 away.

Yes, pets will die in dungeons to things that one hit players. That’s why I posted “it’s really up to ANet to help us here.” More options to keep pets alive would be greatly appreciated and its one of the things that I hope will come in the future.

In PvE, however, none of the other classes can compare to my bear’s ability to hold 5 risen while I shoot them down. No other class can also have their pet tank the champion karka boss while you sneak past it and harvest ori ore.

urdriel.8496:

lol, dude, if our pet die we LOSE dps, all other class nevers lose dps , they always have 100% dps on each hit, our pet is STUPID, you can kite a pet forever, so, 40% of our dps is RANDOM sometimes pet will hit sometimes not.

if i DONT evade kill shot im dead, if i dont evade shortbow shot im ALIVE, i have plenty of time to move (yes obstructed,obstructed bug) while you shot at me, if i roll 1 time, i will dodge 2-3 arrows.

We have Pet utilities, what happens to pet utilities (signets for example) when our pet die?, uhm, we lose effectiveness and dps.

Sigh… there is no convincing you when your mind has already set in stone that pets are useless. Your discontent has been noted and needs no further discussion.

Spritemage.4609:

-snip-

No, I’m sorry OP but pets are useless right now. They stand in AoE, you can’t control their actions, some pets won’t even use all their skills, they don’t always use their F2 right when you call it (and I mean start the skill, I know there is a casting time on them) and so on. In short you can NEVER count on them. Yes you can make them work, but it’s like fighting a horse that just doesn’t want to go where you do. It’s not worth your time to try and make it acceptable when it is clearly flawed.

When there are other classes and builds out there that do not have to rely on luck and AI to do the same things you can do but better, there is no justification for how pets are right now. Especially seeing how weaker we get when our pets die.

And that’s just about the pets, don’t even get me started on the utilities that require or utilize pets.

The purpose of this thread is not to say that “pets are fine as is,” but to say that “yes pets have issues, but they are still useable and not as bad as people make them out to be.” This thread will, hopefully, guide new rangers into seeing what pets are actually capable of.

Kasama.8941:

Really great write up jubskie! You took the words right out of my mouth here, as I’ve said a lot of these things myself to other complaining Rangers. No doubt that there are a lot of fixes needed to be done with the pet AI, but resent changes have done a lot, and the bottom line is that there’s a lot of skill/experience involved in learning how to manage your pet. I hope ArenaNet sticky this thread.

Thanks, glad to see another person that thinks the same! I hope they sticky this too (so I dont have to bump it up anymore XD)

urdriel.8496:

jubskie.3152:

Braxxus.2904:

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Ranger Shortbow outdamages Warrior Rifle.

outdamage?? PFFF, WAS A BAD TEST, because, if i have 10k hp with 1 kill shot im dead, if i have 10k hp and a rangert hit me for 1k , ten times, i have plenty of time to move, dodge, or attack the ranger.

Burst vs sustained damage, in a 1vs1 environment burst is better(mesmer shatter , thief mug+CnD+backstab, eles combo, engineer bombs+rifle).

The problem with ranger is that we NEVER hit with our max dps, because our pet is stupid, f2 skill should be instant but is a joke (3-5 sec delay), if our pets die we have a “dps debuff”and are really easy to kill (you can have them in passive and will die from aoes….),longbow have a “distance” debuff , all other classes can hit you with 100% of is dps power in each attack and in each situation , we cant…

I see you like citing skewed examples. You post like killshot never misses :P So what happens when killshot is blocked/dodged? That goes for all the other stuff you posted too. Or are you implying that once the ranger pet dies, the ranger is so stricken with grief that it just stands there to get combo’d? :P

Also, when your pet dies, does your ranger have nothing else up his sleeve? What happens to your utilities and weapon skills?

Yes, ranger pets could be improved but rangers are not as useless as you make them out to be, even when the pet dies.

bumping for new rangers!

jkctmc.8754:

I probably wouldn’t use that thread as an indicator for Rangers Shortbow damage, vs a Warriors Rifle damage.

They didn’t spec the Warrior correctly, or use the right skills. I can more than quadruple a Rangers damage with the Rifle, let alone land killshot for MASSIVE damage because I rooted my target with the Longbow, and snared them with the Rifle, right before I hit them with roughly 18 stacks of mobility, and a Kill Shot that one shots them.

My Warrior has done 8k to 10k Volleys, 18k to 24k Killshots. You’re never going to do half that damage with a Shortbow. Even if you’re hasted, and I’m not.

It’s so easy to avoid a Rangers pet, it isn’t even funny. You’re only hurting yourselves with threads like this, because Anet might think the pets are fine, and don’t need fixed. Do yourselves a favor, and quit with this nonesense.

Yes, because whining in the forums is so much better than learning the class

Also, I never said that pets are fine as is. I said they needed work but are useable.

EDIT: added clarity

Braxxus.2904:

jubskie.3152:

So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not.

Actually if I’m on my thief or D/D ele then yes I absolutely do, as do most others because on those classes we can.

Thing is, those classes are designed to do that. They have all sorts of escapes and mobility spells. Pets don’t.

Braxxus.2904:

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Ranger Shortbow outdamages Warrior Rifle.

Braxxus.2904:

Stupid AI.
Really really stupid AI.

It paths poorly. It attacks in bad sequences. It dies in 1 aoe attack or 2-3 regular attacks. Even BM pets. It takes no time at all to lazily “meh dps” down a ranger pet when you face them in combat. You guys can only swap them what every 15 seconds if traited? 1 whirlwind attack will usually drop them via the aoe. On my ele they just die to the burst rotation i’m laying down on other people. On a thief I ignore them unless I want a free and reliable CnD.

Yes, I agree that pet AI and survivability needs work. I even acknowledged those problems on the OP.

Braxxus.2904:

Not saying the concept of the pets are bad, and some of the utility they give is quite nice. I’m saying their survivability and CONTROLS are terrible. And that’s ANets fault, not the players of the ranger.

I agree again, we need more control over pets, like command queuing and pet positioning.

The main purpose of this thread is to make people understand that pets, “horrible” as they are in their current state, are still useable and not useless. You acknowledged that they are, so I’ve done what I’ve set out to do.

GUFF.5692:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Here is a problem:

Every time you have to call your pet to avoid any type of heavy damage, you lose dps. Every time you have to swap your pet to avoid heavy damage, you lose dps again.

No other class suffers this. There really isn’t a counter to it, unless the pets are made more durable to take these heavy strikes, without having to trait heavily into BM. You trait heavily into BM, your own dps suffers. It’s a catch 22…

How does one counter this at the moment? I really don’t think it’s possible.

Well said. I do find my pets somewhat useful in smaller engagements for the CC factor in WvWvW. In larger ones the AOE damage and players specifically targeting my pet make me wish I stored it. In fact, I do the same thing as a ranger myself. When I see enemy pets and specifically target them I can take them down in about 4s max (unless they have SOS). Their limited armor and health make them easy targets.

Now, you can say, “LTP ranger noob, you should be x/x/x/30. If not, don’t whine if your pets dies then”. Well guess what? Why should I be forced to take a trait line just to make my pet viable in certain situations? Pets should be viable right out of the box. Pets still need work.

Its like you haven’t read the guide at all

I did say that putting points in BM would help, but I never said to max it out as a solution. In fact, I even said we need help from ANet on pet survival.

Pet management is up to the player. So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not. Why would you send your pet in there?

Learn to work with the pet, rather than work against it. If you already closed off your mind to exploring the abilities with pets, you’re not using your ranger to its maximum potential.

Lastly, you might want to check out this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests

Holland.9351:

So all in all, it’s horrible and not worth your time, except maybe to initiate combat with if you have a lot of time to play a game of chance to get the item you wanted.

Sorry but you’re missing the point here. Forage isn’t meant to act like the Thief Steal at all. That would make the skills redundant. Steal is just for the thief, and Forage is for everyone. (unfortunately, for enemies as well :/ )

Now you complain about the randomness of the item drop, but if you look at them, they all do the same thing. They have a theme, except maybe the plasma on the siamoth.

All the heals are on the pig, all the interrupts are on the boar.

As I mentioned in the guide, its better if you call out the items dropped, and you inform your allies what each of them does. This requires a bit of communication and works best with a coordinated group.

Cempa.5619:

The actual mechanic of ‘locating and picking up’ the forged item is extremely frustrating to say the least. Not only do I have to ‘guess’ by moving around the area until the Pick UP (F) yellow box appears, once located I need to mash (F) for the item!

Good on paper, bad in live!

you could press alt so it appears on your screen