Guild Wars 2

I really don’t think that they’ve increased the drop rate. Between 3 characters I’ve gotten 1 passionflower in 2 days of gathering. Either they really didn’t buff the drop rate or they buffed it by some miniscule amount that isn’t even noticeable.

I run full berserkers gear on my necro. I find that I last longer with this build than by using more toughness or survival stats. I kill things so much faster that I end up taking less damage. Put 30 points in Soul Reaping and you’ll get not only more crit damage but also a larger life force pool, faster life force generation, and access to stability which adds to your survivability.

Also, make use of omnomberry ghosts for heals when you crit.

darkace.8925:

Regarding “external balance”. In open-world PvE everything dies quickly enough for this not to be an issue. In dungeons and PvP, you have control over your party composition. If you wouldn’t run a dungeon with two cc-spec’d engineers or two banner-spec’d warriors, why would you run one with two condition-spec’d thieves?

If you take too many of any one aspect of combat you’re going to hit a point of diminishing returns. The exception to this is direct damage. And while it’s true that direct damage isn’t capped, it is mitigated by measures conditional damage bypasses altogether.

And if parties consisting of nothing but characters spec’d for maximum direct damage, the glass cannons, are blasting their way through PvE content, then that’s a “difficulty-adjustment” issue and not a “mechanics of conditions” issue, in my opinion.

In open world PvE this still prevents a problem, as it’s near impossible to get enough damage on a mob to get loot credit when lots of people are using conditions (this applies to WvW as well). I’ve literally put down traps on mobs and not seen a single tick of a bleed go off because it was overwritten before it could even do damage.

Also, you do realize that not everyone runs with a controlled group composition right? People do pug in this game and no one should be required to run with a guild or pre-made composition just to play their class.

Also your statement of condition damage bypassing mitigation is extremely weak. Condition damage even fully stacked still can’t pull as much dps as direct damage even against the highest amounts of armor. Not to mention many direct damage classes have means to diminish mitigation through vulnerability (i.e GS warriors). Makes you wonder why groups stack so many GS berserker warriors huh. I guess that’s fair and balanced…

Honestly you aren’t strengthening your argument at all and at this point you just seem to be trolling.

Rajani Isa.6294:

kidbs.8920:

Again, how is it that other MMOs have figured how to do that? How does condition damage use anymore bandwidth than direct damage? I just don’t buy that excuse.

It’s the duration aspect of conditions that cause them to take more resources. Also depends on how much feedback they send back to the player.

I know in COH, when they introduced the detailed numbers it caused some issues for people with slower connections, and so they had an option to turn off the buffs/debuffs/etc numbers being sent to the client.

Still, WoW managed to send back far more detailed information regarding DoTs, debuffs, buffs, etc… but a modern day MMO such as GW2 can’t figure out a way to accomplish the same thing?

The bottom line is it comes back to a failure in their condition mechanic. I mean was there really a need to differentiate the way bleeds, burns, and poisons all function with regards to stacks? It only serves to make things more complicated and puts them into the situation that they have now with regards to tracking DoTs from multiple players.

Stacks should represent multiple conditions from multiple players, rather than one player having multiple stacks of one condition (i.e. bleed stacks). There should be one bleed, one burn, one poison stack per person with a fixed value of damage that is increased via condition damage on gear. If you see two stacks of bleeds on someone then that would represent one bleed from two different people. Nice and simple… and the way that other MMOs handle it.

The problem is that this would require a very major rewrite to their entire system and all classes (as individual abilities would have to be adjusted as well). So honestly I have no idea what they can do at this point to actually bring balance for condition-based builds. I really don’t think that it’s possible at this point.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kidbs.8920:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

emikochan.8504:

Sigh, everyone should just have their own cap, it wouldn’t even be slightly overpowered.

I think you’re underselling the effect of every person getting 25 stacks of Bleed on their own. I keep pointing out due to how the rules work, anything done to fix it in PvE would also wind up on WvW, and while some people have condition removal all day long others don’t.

Think of how much you’d see getting done to, say, glass cannon builds if they ate 12x 25 Stacks of Bleed? Heck, even a tank-like build might be really in trouble at that.

How is that different than being hit by 5 different 100b warriors at the same time? Why should a team of direct damage dealers be more effective and capable of dishing out damage than a team of condition dealers?

In other MMOs such as WoW and Rift a person can have DoTs from multiple players at a time. It’s not like DoT damage is so much more powerful than direct damage that this should even be an issue.

. . . because you can dodge Hundred Blades. You can’t dodge ticks from conditions.

but you can dodge the attack that applies the condition the same as a warriors 100b or even remove the stacks altogether…. Not to mention it takes a hell of a lot more to even get to 25 stacks of bleeds than it does for a warrior to hit you with one burst attack. You can’t even begin to compare it.

What runes are you using? I’ve been playing a “bunker” condition build myself and I’m using Superior runes of Dwayna for the increased regen duration and 5 seconds of regen on using a heal skill.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

emikochan.8504:

Sigh, everyone should just have their own cap, it wouldn’t even be slightly overpowered.

I think you’re underselling the effect of every person getting 25 stacks of Bleed on their own. I keep pointing out due to how the rules work, anything done to fix it in PvE would also wind up on WvW, and while some people have condition removal all day long others don’t.

Think of how much you’d see getting done to, say, glass cannon builds if they ate 12x 25 Stacks of Bleed? Heck, even a tank-like build might be really in trouble at that.

How is that different than being hit by 5 different 100b warriors at the same time? Why should a team of direct damage dealers be more effective and capable of dishing out damage than a team of condition dealers?

In other MMOs such as WoW and Rift a person can have DoTs from multiple players at a time. It’s not like DoT damage is so much more powerful than direct damage that this should even be an issue.

woeye.2753:

Because in other games debuffs often do not stack! As simple as that.

Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in order to get maximum performance. Sure it would be nice to be able to track each bleed stack by each player. But this puts a big load on the system.

A more pragmatic solution would be to have one bleed (object) for each player on a mob as I described somewhere else.

That is what I said. The stacking mechanic is flawed. In other MMOs any stacking of a DoT is actually representing individual DoTs from multiple players rather than multiple stacks from a single player. This why conditions are so complicated in this game. They just need to be redesigned to use a more common mechanic that is used by other MMOs.

Each player should have only one bleed, one burn, one poison, etc…

Ishiga.6053:

kidbs.8920:

JonPeters.5630:

It is true that letting each player have a stack is unlikely to be the solution, however we do intend to solve this problem.

Why not? You can’t solve the problem if individual players can’t maintain their own stacks. How is it that other MMOs such as WoW and Rift can do this but you guys can’t figure it out? I know that DoTs in those games are handled differently (i.e. they don’t have the stacking mechanic that this game does), and that is why you guys are having such a hard time balancing conditions. The mechanic is just flawed and needs to be redone.

Players want to feel like they are contributing to damage and not just overwriting each other’s conditions.

Correction: They can’t solve the problem like you want them to.

This was already clarified in the interview. Conditions require bandwidth and parsing that many queries would be too much burden on their servers.

Again, how is it that other MMOs have figured how to do that? How does condition damage use anymore bandwidth than direct damage? I just don’t buy that excuse.

JonPeters.5630:

It is true that letting each player have a stack is unlikely to be the solution, however we do intend to solve this problem.

Why not? You can’t solve the problem if individual players can’t maintain their own stacks. How is it that other MMOs such as WoW and Rift can do this but you guys can’t figure it out? I know that DoTs in those games are handled differently (i.e. they don’t have the stacking mechanic that this game does), and that is why you guys are having such a hard time balancing conditions. The mechanic is just flawed and needs to be redone.

Players want to feel like they are contributing to damage and not just overwriting each other’s conditions.

I personally wouldn’t go for anything less than 50% crit chance (this could be with food buffs). Omnomberry pies and ghosts are just so powerful that you really should be critting at least half of the time and using one of those two consumables.

nerva.7940:

does anyone actually stay in wells? wells work just fine on points in spvp, but everyone in wvw usually scatters after the first tick. dunno, just what ive seen. the other thing is wells only have a 600 casting range, which means youre basically point blank. whereas mesmers can cast glamour spells from 1200 while doing full dps.

Laii.2780:

If you want to roam around in WvW and duel people and win 90% of the time with the least amount of effort, go roll a theif, and dont’ make silly threads like this where you complain about beating a necro, or loosing as a necro 1v1. ~

oh im not complaining at all actually. just giving you my observations. necros seem to be downed quite easily in both larger and smaller engagements, unless theyre bunker in which case they dont really do much.

The only classes that give me trouble on my power necro (and yes I run a pure berserker build) are good thieves and bunker eles. Every other class is pretty easy to down.

Traited wells actually have a 900 casting range and the best trick is to chill your target with with staff #3 as you are closing in then switch to dagger and hit them with the dagger #3 root followed by casting your wells. I use Warhorn offhand so I usually immediately interrupt them and start wailing on them with my dagger while they stew in my two wells.

Anyone that is not built for survivability will melt in that combo. To those that say glass cannon necro builds can’t survive… we are actually one of the classes that can best survive as a glass cannon as long as you run with 30 points in Soul Reaping. The extra offensive pressure ends fights more quickly and you have a much bigger lifeforce pool for better deathshroud mitigation (plus faster lifeforce regen). You also get your only real source of stability from the Soul Reaping tree which even at 3 seconds can make a huge difference.

Roysten.3456:

kidbs.8920:

There are lots thieves that are using dagger/dagger and pistol/dagger that are speccing for survivability (condition removal and regen in stealth). I actually see more of them than glass cannons these days. Let me tell you that they lose very little of their damage and gain a whole lot of of survivability. These are the thieves that will wreck your face consistently and are hell to kill.

The op wanted to know about backstabs thieves and they are the burst monsters that many people assume all thieves are.
I have been on both sides of a p/d necro fight and the most deadly threat is one of the players dying of boredom.
A d/d specced 30 pts in shadow for the cleanse regen will have a fraction of the damage of a backstabber. A frustrating fight but maintaining a gap with chill/cripple after utility stealths are used will neutralise their c&d. You might get one or more resets but in the end its about who makes the first mistake.
A necro is a horrible target for a thief.

My friend plays a d/d cleanse/regen thief and is still capable of pulling 9k backstabs. You may consider that a fraction of the damage of a glass cannon, but it will still wreck someone’s face. The only class that he actively avoids is a bunker ele, everyone else he takes down quite easily.

Roysten.3456:

kidbs.8920:

The problem is that thieves can regen crazy amounts of HP in stealth and heal back up faster than you can, so they can take recovery breaks and then come back to finish the job.

This only applies to Pistol/dagger thieves and they definitely don’t like to pick fights with necros. If a dagger/dagger thief is doing this then they aren’t a backstab build which is all or nothing. Half hearted d/d builds can be fought the same way as a heartseeker spammer, just expect it to take a bit longer.

Just to explain why Chill is so bad for a Glass Cannon backstabber.
They can’t remove it unless they have shadow step on their bar which is unlikely for the bursters.
It doesn’t slow their initiative burners so they often don’t know they have a chill until empty and with a slowed auto attack.
It removes their mobility and dodges.
If they don’t kill you with the c&d/steal/Bs hs hs they are pretty much dead in the water.
Looking at things from their view a Necro is a bad target, not as bad a a Guardian with Aegis up, but a close second.

Glass cannon backstab builds aren’t the problem for necros (at least not for me) as even a few ticks in a well can leave them at 25% hp, so a quick switch to DS and lifedrain can usually finish them off.

There are lots thieves that are using dagger/dagger and pistol/dagger that are speccing for survivability (condition removal and regen in stealth). I actually see more of them than glass cannons these days. Let me tell you that they lose very little of their damage and gain a whole lot of of survivability. These are the thieves that will wreck your face consistently and are hell to kill.

Basically you have to get lucky or hope that the thief sucks at his class. They will always have the advantage of resetting the fight if you manage to turn the tide of the fight. AoEs are your friend as others have said.

If my marks and wells are on cooldown, sometimes I’ll just hit spectral walk and start running. Then as soon as they attack I’ll teleport back and I’m out of their cloak and dagger range, which leaves them exposed or forces them to blow another utility to restealth. Then drop chillbains on them and hit them with whatever you can before they close the distance.

The problem is that thieves can regen crazy amounts of HP in stealth and heal back up faster than you can, so they can take recovery breaks and then come back to finish the job.

I agree with you that necros need to branch out from certain build such as conditionmancers where personally I feel they fall behind rangers in pure condition damage. In most of the dungeons that I run I find that AoE damage is very much needed and that’s where wells really shine and minions are lackluster.

This is where I wish we had multiple build loadouts available b/c I can see that minions would probably be good for certain single boss fights. I just can’t stand the thought of having very weak AoE.

Bas.7406:

kidbs.8920:

Bas.7406:

kidbs.8920:

I would say there are 3 options (minions are a joke).

You are kidding right? The only place minions have trouble is wvwvw zerg battles. In Dungeons they are strong. In tournament play they are pretty awesome. In general pve, they are awesome.

In wvwvw small team roam squads they are hilariously fun. In large zergs or wall defense they get slaughtered.

Minions die far too easily and have stupid AI. I can’t imagine why you would choose to use a minion over wells or epidemic in a dungeon, but whatever floats your boat.

Let me help you out here.

1) Stop using them with reduced traits. None of them die easily, they can all tank bosses for a few seconds which is essentially a blind. The only time they die is if a boss or character unleashes an attack that would wipe your personal health. I have only ran into two situations where all the minions died at once. 3 are ranged and 2 are melee and one of the melee regens health.

2) AOE only wipes them out if the same aoe would kill you. They don’t dodge, but the amount of aoe that would wipe you out and that all yoru minions would be in is small.

3) Wells and Corruptions skills have significantly longer cooldowns, and during the period they are down minions are still up and do more damage. During the time wells are used well builds deal more damage. It’s a fair tradeoff.

4) Signets and Spectral skills are situational with some having almost no use in Dungeons. Let’s not get started as to how horrible epidemic or corrupt boon is on your bar when you run into anything that is less than 3 or has no boons.

Finally, there are pluses and minuses to every build. Minions work very effectively and don’t die that often. I have videos of me with other Necros where they outlived the other necros or simply outlived everyone in the party than tanked a boss while I rezzed the party.

Wait that means they are worthless doesn’t it?

Sorry if I offended you Bas. I guess you’ve found a way to make minions work where countless others haven’t. I would still put minion builds below the other 3 in terms of reliability but I’m sure you’ll disagree with me on that as well. To each his own. I retract my comment about minions being worthless.

Bas.7406:

kidbs.8920:

I would say there are 3 options (minions are a joke).

You are kidding right? The only place minions have trouble is wvwvw zerg battles. In Dungeons they are strong. In tournament play they are pretty awesome. In general pve, they are awesome.

In wvwvw small team roam squads they are hilariously fun. In large zergs or wall defense they get slaughtered.

Minions die far too easily and have stupid AI. I can’t imagine why you would choose to use a minion over wells or epidemic in a dungeon, but whatever floats your boat.

The most success that I’ve had as a Necro in both WvW and dungeons is going pure berserker gear and using staff + dagger/warhorn. We’re one of the few classes that can actually wear berserker’s gear and still have some semblance of survivability.

In WvW my wells hit like a freaking truck and are loot bag generators for me. They are great for area denial. Even in berserker’s gear I have no fear running up to a warrior or guardian and meleeing them with my dagger.

This is the build that I use:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmQDbkRrSPTTZjhPBAp4WdjUQ8wUPcv9zB;TsAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sKYAxGCA

I think too many necros focus solely on condition damage which for us is basically limited to bleeds. I find that my ranger is much better with condition damage than necros as he has access to bleeds, burns, and poison and is much faster at applying all of them.

Wow good catch on this one. I almost always hit Sick em before anything else. Little did I know it was doing nothing for me that way.

Bas.7406:

There is no perfect build. There are 4 different build styles and multiple builds off that build style.

Condition
Power
Minion
Hybrid

Those are the 4 main styles than there are ways off that. Find the style you like the best and we can help with the build.

I would say there are 3 options (minions are a joke).

Condition/trap rangers do pretty decent dps and generally have good survivability (and they aren’t that reliant on pet damage for their dps). Yes there are classes that can do higher dps and bring more utility to a group. Outside of higher level fractals, I don’t think that having a ranger in a group is any sort of impediment.

Daddydeath.9371:

well fact of the matter is eles and rangers r getting nerfs soon so enjoy

I can only hope they nerf thieves at some point so you scrubs actually have to learn to play rather than facerolling.

Bambula.3649:

kidbs.8920:

A good bunker ele will not be beaten by a thief either due to their insane healing and condition removal. Eles also have excellent mobility and CC, so they can also easily get away if needed.

Really you just listed 2 classes that should have very little problem killing a ranger and are considered the most OP duelers in the game… I don’t mean to be nasty but I think an L2P is in order.

not true, with trapper you can break every bunker thats a reason why are so strong, but not op. i need some time but 1on1 you can kill every bunker with a trapper when you got the same skill. ele get it easier vs trapper cause they got more condi removes than a guard or other classes, but after time even they will drop.

the trapper ranger big problem are cc/buster..100b worri is a bad exampel beacuse most of them a bit to obviously

but not glasscannon mesmer or pistel whip can be very dangeruos if you doge on time wrong or you have to much stuns, cause he got no stun breaker.

I said you shouldn’t be beating good thieves or eles. Sure trappers will kill glass cannons with ease, but intelligent thieves and eles who build for survivability will always have the upper hand as they can simply choose to run away if the going gets tough and basically reset the fight. Rangers don’t have that option.

Obviously someone who is stupid enough to keep running into your traps and standing there is going to die, but any class can beat another class if the other player is bad.

condition/precision/toughness gear
Spec for traps, use shortbow and axe/torch. Sigil of earth on shortbow and either your axe or torch. All of your damage will come from conditions which of course is what traps are all about. Burning from your torch offhand is pretty wicked.

Daddydeath.9371:

kidbs.8920:

Daddydeath.9371:

Thiefs can be beaten with aoe, knockbacks and cc. eles can be beaten with condition or high burst, so far im yet to find a counter for that ranger build, if u do know plz let me know, since its not op as u say then there must be a way 2 counter them? if so i would like 2 know it. rangers may need buffs in some builds i agree, however the trap/condition/evade combo is a nasty one and should be nerfed

All good thieves are running with condition removal + regen on stealth, so conditions alone won’t kill them. If a thief ever gets too low on hp he always has the option of completely escaping and resetting the fight (something that no other class has except maybe an ele).

A good bunker ele will not be beaten by a thief either due to their insane healing and condition removal. Eles also have excellent mobility and CC, so they can also easily get away if needed.

Really you just listed 2 classes that should have very little problem killing a ranger and are considered the most OP duelers in the game… I don’t mean to be nasty but I think an L2P is in order.

am willing 2 duel u in spvp anytime, show u it isnt about skill, come duel me then say l2p after

Then why are you here complaining? No good thief or ele should ever die to any ranger. I’ll readily admit that if I beat either that they were likely just bad players because their classes by nature have an advantage over me.

Daddydeath.9371:

Thiefs can be beaten with aoe, knockbacks and cc. eles can be beaten with condition or high burst, so far im yet to find a counter for that ranger build, if u do know plz let me know, since its not op as u say then there must be a way 2 counter them? if so i would like 2 know it. rangers may need buffs in some builds i agree, however the trap/condition/evade combo is a nasty one and should be nerfed

All good thieves are running with condition removal + regen on stealth, so conditions alone won’t kill them. If a thief ever gets too low on hp he always has the option of completely escaping and resetting the fight (something that no other class has except maybe an ele).

A good bunker ele will not be beaten by a thief either due to their insane healing and condition removal. Eles also have excellent mobility and CC, so they can also easily get away if needed.

Really you just listed 2 classes that should have very little problem killing a ranger and are considered the most OP duelers in the game… I don’t mean to be nasty but I think an L2P is in order.

I don’t think BM builds are really viable in the majority of WvW encounters because most of them are zergs. Your pet just gets melted way to quickly from all of the AoE even with survivability talents. BM builds are great for spvp and perhaps roaming squads or havok squads in WvW but that’s about it.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

kidbs.8920:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Honestly I don’t use shortbow because Sword (with a complementing offhand, depending on the build/situation) does more single-target damage.

I find that very hard to believe especially if you are able to flank your target and stack bleeds nonstop.

I don’t have the numbers, but using a condition build, Sword and Torch seemed to do more than constant flanking shortbow. Granted, it was very close, but still more.

And in power based builds, the sword does more with almost any offhand. (at least from what I’ve seen personally.)

I’m guessing that this would have more to do with the torch (burning) damage than what you’re actually getting from the sword, but yeah that would make sense in that case. I tend to like using axe/torch for pretty much the same reason (burn damage).

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

nerva.7940:

runes of the undead (added to pizza and 25 stacks of corruption) gives about 1600 condition damage, which is absolutely disgusting considering how much tank you have. i havent met any prof/spec that i couldnt melt. i will need a lot of convincing to give up undead!

This, I’ll run undead (or melandru in the past) and the amount of damage I can put out and still be survivable is great. My guess is you run more defensive stats than me though and my condition damage is below yours as I try and run as high a precision as I can for the chance on crit to bleed sigil as well as life steal food which means lower healing. I don’t gain the corruption stacks.

I might try dropping my precision some to get my condition a little higher but I like the life steal and chance to bleed on crit and not worrying about my positioning as I only run traps in sPVP and not in W3 so in W3 I like to know I can bleed without moving behind them.

I agree with Xsorus on the condition duration but I’ve just found I prefer the extra condition damage from undead and can get higher duration from food anyway, I prefer the damage.

The way it works is, lets say you just have the 40% condition duration from food..

Your torch throw will say “Does X amount of damage over 8 1/2 seconds” You don’t get that 1/2 second of damage.. So basically any Condition Duration from the 40% food that is 1/2, 3/4, 1/3 is wasted….

If you pickup an extra 10% condition duration from any source, You bump the Torch throw to 9 seconds, Which means you gain an extra 600-700 damage on your burn

Yes but condition removal really needs to be considered from a PVP and WvW point of view, as well as things like bleeds reaching a max when applied by more than more source.

Hence why I’m not sure I’d want to run the runes and food.

from a WvW standpoint, I run into more people with no condition removal then those with it..

I guess I’ve experienced the opposite then b/c I normally run into people that either spec for some form of condition removal or they are around others that remove it for them. I know on my guardian for example, I remove 2 conditions every 10 seconds passively. I would rather have the few seconds that my burn is on someone like that to hit harder than bank on the extra duration to run it’s course.

Kreen.3925:

Jahn.7019:

JQ mentality seems to be “Who cares that I’m losing now, at least my other time slot is winning”.

SoR mentality seems to be “We are winning now, who cares what happens when I’m sleeping/working/studying”.

SoS mentality I have no idea really, they just seem to hate JQ.

But surely that depends on what timeslot you are in……

at present everyone seems to hate us, I think even we hate us, once upon a time we were that cuddly honey badger, now someone shoved a green mask on our chops and there are teeth and claws everywhere.

SBI always hated you guys :-P. That’s why so many of us were shocked when SF transferred to JQ. The SBI guilds that transferred to SoR came for their community but also to get a chance to stomp some JQ tail.

Jet.4795:

After reading all of this just want to add on a couple of things. The fact that SoR (only server I have seen post from) is complaining about JQ’s numbers and coverage is sad. You say we PvDoor, is that our fault? If you guys had the numbers you would do aswell. All you guys are doing is complaining at times where we have the advantage. For the people say SoR has better NA primetime, at the end of the day it doesnt matter who has beter NA primtetime if you cant hold at oceanic time. To win WvW you need coverage, there is no doubt about it. So complaining about it is dumb lol. Instead of complaining please just go fix your coverage then show us that you are better.
Ben Sheets

Easier said than done especially now that transfers aren’t free. I recall that JQ complained plenty over the past months when SoS had superior coverage (I’m originally from SBI so I’ve had months of interaction with JQ). The best that any server can do right now against JQ is prove their worth during times where coverage is equal.

For all of it’s flaws, I think GW2 could take a page out of Warhammer Online’s book and look for ideas. I personally thought that Warhammer had very good incentive to participate in PvP (rewards for raiding participation in city events along with a token system for gear).

It was great that you could make huge raids of people rather than only being able to stick in 5-man groups like here. It made for much better coordination than what the current commander tag gives us.

rahuri.7048:

Just hit +615! Nice work! Is this some kind of record?

Post moar scores of PvMosquito please. I think we all know what to expect at this time of day already so the score posts are a bit unnecessary.

Sorem.9157:

kidbs.8920:

As crappy as the scepter is, I would still choose that over the 1-hand sword. You will consistently land more hits against kiters and ranged players with it over the 1-hand sword, plus you will get a root and semi-decent burst ability in smite.

I know the thought is that 1-hand sword will give you another gap closer if you are using it along with GS, but one problem that you will face will be if someone puts a chill effect or snare on you and you are not able to cleanse it. It will effectively halve the distance that you can leap.

Scepter has a slow/low damage auto attack, plus a good player will manage to dodge at least 50% of the bubbles from distance, i find it better to gap into them and melee with the sword or swap to greatsword for greater burst. But that’s personal opinion haha XD

Smite from scepter is one of of the highest dps attacks we have. Chains of Light followed by Smite can do several thousands in damage. Also, your opponent is just as likely to dodge your sword attacks. Assuming that you are constantly closing in on your target and are within 600 feet of them, scepter will hit them reliably, much more so than melee.

There are far too many ways for people to get out of melee range and we do not have many ways to stick on someone even with our gap closers. Keep in mind that the other melee classes can stick to their opponents better and have much more massive burst to lay on them when they do reach them. You really need to have something on you to continue doing damage once your target gets out of melee range (think of snares, roots, elevation differences).

I use all of the TA armor with the Arah headpiece (the skull hood) and it looks wickedly cool. My main colors are midnight green and a lighter green that I can’t remember the name of :-P

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Honestly I don’t use shortbow because Sword (with a complementing offhand, depending on the build/situation) does more single-target damage.

I find that very hard to believe especially if you are able to flank your target and stack bleeds nonstop.

hex.3218:

kidbs.8920:

Nuked.2360:

kidbs.8920:

VOLKON.1290:

covenn.7165:

Even last night while we were holding most of the JQ BL. If we had been 2v1ing, we wouldn’t have been forced to regularly and repeatedly leave the garrison we were defending from you, to stop SoS from taking hills/bay/southern towers from us. In fact, we had to sacrifice objectives due to this several times because we were getting hit by both of you simultaneously.

Can I complain that your two servers have some conspiracy together to make it hard on SoR? Not really, it is the way the game is played and the very nature of three way fights.

Just let it go.

Last night wasn’t Friday night last I checked. I’m talking about out-of-the-gate Friday night and our subsequent recovery, how we weren’t broken or demoralized and came back quite well from the punch in the nose, which appears to have broken the other servers will heading into the remainder of the weekend and on into the week.

Let’s not get silly here… it doesn’t take much these days to recover when you have superior coverage.

You guys based your entire existence in tier one by fighting for 2nd place and riding the coattails of the strongest server rather than seriously attacking them. You guys now have all the numbers that you could possibly need so it’s no longer necessary. But the sheer audacity of anyone from JQ mentioning a 2v1 against them is lulzy.

Glad you know our history. We fought for 2nd all those times against Henge and SBI got it! Thanks for giving me that insight into how JQ plays to a JQ player whose been on JQ since beta

As a former SBI player since beta (prior to the week before free server transfers ended), I know exactly how you guys played. It was the running joke in tier 1. You guys never went after SoS and were content to constantly push SBI to try and secure a 2nd place position. This happened week after week. It got to the point that we could never go after SoS because as soon as we pushed against them or SoS pushed against us there was good old JQ running in for scraps.

I love how JQ constantly brags about how long they stayed in tier 1 when they only managed to hit first place a few times prior to the mass influx of players.

Anyway, ranting done. It’s just funny that anyone from JQ would ever complain about a 2v1 situation.

What server did you transfer to? Just curious.

Not sure about that whole ‘running joke’ thing. JQ had a ton of respect for SBI and the fights with SBI were more fun than having SoS 50 man zerg us to death. All the former SBI members I know understood the game back then, and tried to knock JQ to third whenever they could. I’d have thought you guys were weak if you didn’t attack us too.

I mean, you sound like you don’t like being attacked and take it kinda personal. It’s WvW bro. We’re supposed to attack you! You are like the only SBI player I know who is mad that we fought SBI harder than SoS. We had to fight you guys harder because you were harder to fight.

You can put that grudge down now. Your back must be killing you carrying around all that weight…

I’ve never met an SBI player that didn’t dislike JQ (sorry but it’s true). There was very little if any respect for you guys on our end. It’s not that you guys attacked us, it’s that you rarely if ever attacked SoS. This is where the impression came that you guys only fought for second place.

I’m not mad… to me this is like saying the sky is blue. It was just the nature of your server.

Just curious, why has no one mentioned the carrion amulet? It seems to me that it gives you a much needed boost to your hp pool while also boosting both your power and condition damage. Sure you’re giving up crit-based proc abilities but you’re beefing up the direct damage of all of your attacks in return.

I’m thinking in terms of a more hybrid trap/BM build along the lines of this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAnfVnAVEXZbFWBxaZgo9gSm/8MFHyRPFoX9nskoJB;TgAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNB

As crappy as the scepter is, I would still choose that over the 1-hand sword. You will consistently land more hits against kiters and ranged players with it over the 1-hand sword, plus you will get a root and semi-decent burst ability in smite.

I know the thought is that 1-hand sword will give you another gap closer if you are using it along with GS, but one problem that you will face will be if someone puts a chill effect or snare on you and you are not able to cleanse it. It will effectively halve the distance that you can leap.

Nuked.2360:

kidbs.8920:

VOLKON.1290:

covenn.7165:

Even last night while we were holding most of the JQ BL. If we had been 2v1ing, we wouldn’t have been forced to regularly and repeatedly leave the garrison we were defending from you, to stop SoS from taking hills/bay/southern towers from us. In fact, we had to sacrifice objectives due to this several times because we were getting hit by both of you simultaneously.

Can I complain that your two servers have some conspiracy together to make it hard on SoR? Not really, it is the way the game is played and the very nature of three way fights.

Just let it go.

Last night wasn’t Friday night last I checked. I’m talking about out-of-the-gate Friday night and our subsequent recovery, how we weren’t broken or demoralized and came back quite well from the punch in the nose, which appears to have broken the other servers will heading into the remainder of the weekend and on into the week.

Let’s not get silly here… it doesn’t take much these days to recover when you have superior coverage.

You guys based your entire existence in tier one by fighting for 2nd place and riding the coattails of the strongest server rather than seriously attacking them. You guys now have all the numbers that you could possibly need so it’s no longer necessary. But the sheer audacity of anyone from JQ mentioning a 2v1 against them is lulzy.

Glad you know our history. We fought for 2nd all those times against Henge and SBI got it! Thanks for giving me that insight into how JQ plays to a JQ player whose been on JQ since beta

As a former SBI player since beta (prior to the week before free server transfers ended), I know exactly how you guys played. It was the running joke in tier 1. You guys never went after SoS and were content to constantly push SBI to try and secure a 2nd place position. This happened week after week. It got to the point that we could never go after SoS because as soon as we pushed against them or SoS pushed against us there was good old JQ running in for scraps.

I love how JQ constantly brags about how long they stayed in tier 1 when they only managed to hit first place a few times prior to the mass influx of players.

Anyway, ranting done. It’s just funny that anyone from JQ would ever complain about a 2v1 situation.

VOLKON.1290:

covenn.7165:

Even last night while we were holding most of the JQ BL. If we had been 2v1ing, we wouldn’t have been forced to regularly and repeatedly leave the garrison we were defending from you, to stop SoS from taking hills/bay/southern towers from us. In fact, we had to sacrifice objectives due to this several times because we were getting hit by both of you simultaneously.

Can I complain that your two servers have some conspiracy together to make it hard on SoR? Not really, it is the way the game is played and the very nature of three way fights.

Just let it go.

Last night wasn’t Friday night last I checked. I’m talking about out-of-the-gate Friday night and our subsequent recovery, how we weren’t broken or demoralized and came back quite well from the punch in the nose, which appears to have broken the other servers will heading into the remainder of the weekend and on into the week.

Let’s not get silly here… it doesn’t take much these days to recover when you have superior coverage.

You guys based your entire existence in tier one by fighting for 2nd place and riding the coattails of the strongest server rather than seriously attacking them. You guys now have all the numbers that you could possibly need so it’s no longer necessary. But the sheer audacity of anyone from JQ mentioning a 2v1 against them is lulzy.

Vodka.3958:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Haha kinda amusing to see all the BG players complaining now…you guys threw a match and now its not resetting…ohh isn’t it ironic?..Good luck being in tier 2 for a long time since Kaineg is coming up and you will probably never gain ratings.

Not even complaining bro; JQ has coverage that is unmatched and with free transfers over i doubt they will be trumped from the throne anytime soon. I hope exploiting SBI’s rating was worth it, because now you’ll be in third place for a very, very long time…

Because BG never took advantage of seriously outmanning their opponents servers on it’s rise to tier 1 right? The obligatory “bro” doesn’t hide the fact that you are whining.

Vodka.3958:

stwg.7589:

This has its ups and downs but the fact that SOR exploited SBI’s rating to jump into Tier 1 after 2 weeks is pretty unfair to Blackgate, which spent months in Tier 2 fighting to get back to Tier 1 just to be sent down after two weeks from that whole situation.
Just saying

Hahah it’s landing SoR in third place and their actually going 100% this week. Blackgate really wasn’t anticipating for A-Nut to fall back on their publicly announced decision to reset, but I’m sure we will be back in T1 very, very soon

Don’t count on SoR being in third place by match end. If BG truly did tank their match last week on purpose then that was just silly on your part.

Ragion.2831:

kidbs.8920:

Kiriakulos.1690:

kidbs.8920:

You pretty much have to use staff for AoE situations. Even without the marks your auto-attack pierces and hits several targets. I personally run with a staff and dagger/(focus or warhorn).

I don’t feel that way, especially if you bring double wells in your utility slots.
DS 4 + Double wells is usually enough to deal with AoE mobs, sure the CD may be 40 – 60s, but I tend to take that long before needing ro AoE bomb anything in PvE.
I also use the piercing LifeBlast trait from the Soul Reaping adept, that helps as well.

The cool downs are too long on all of those if you’re doing any speed clearing. No doubt you can clear packs quickly with just that when they are up but I just hate having to wait.

Wells are what you want to use, you are already doing high direct damage anyway. If you want them faster, you can always use the trait. I found i dont really need the wells that often because of all the damage. When i do its for dungeons, then i go with the trait that shortens the CD.

You’ll end up gimping your damage by taking those traits though. I use both wells and staff for AoE in dungeons. Staff 1 is actually very good if the mobs can be grouped properly.

Talentless.5708:

Yes, lets make an OP skill more OP by taking away the only counter available. Sorry if this response is harsh and your post well-intentioned… but the consequences would be ridiculous.

lol OP? It does pitiful damage and only hits you if you are basically within melee range. It’s ridiculously easy to dodge-roll out of it and kite a necro using it. But I’m guessing you’re speaking from the point of view of a dagger thief and don’t like that it prevents backstab craziness for 20 seconds.

Kiriakulos.1690:

kidbs.8920:

You pretty much have to use staff for AoE situations. Even without the marks your auto-attack pierces and hits several targets. I personally run with a staff and dagger/(focus or warhorn).

I don’t feel that way, especially if you bring double wells in your utility slots.
DS 4 + Double wells is usually enough to deal with AoE mobs, sure the CD may be 40 – 60s, but I tend to take that long before needing ro AoE bomb anything in PvE.
I also use the piercing LifeBlast trait from the Soul Reaping adept, that helps as well.

The cool downs are too long on all of those if you’re doing any speed clearing. No doubt you can clear packs quickly with just that when they are up but I just hate having to wait.

Archer.1658:

kidbs.8920:

Archer.1658:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Archer.1658:

kidbs.8920:

Ynna.8769:

kidbs.8920:

So basically you’re saying play your best and hope the guardian sucks right? A smart guardian will pace himself as well.

The difference being that a Warrior that paces himself can, when the right opportunity arises, call upon burst that could be enough to end a Guardian, whereas a Guardian who paces himself just dies slowly.

I may not be able to unleash 100b amounts of damage, but I can pop an 8k whirling wrath on someone. It’s not like Guardians don’t output good damage. And trust me when I say you don’t have to be a glass cannon to do the damage that I just described.

Proof of 8k Whirling wrath please. No 25 might stacks, no 25 stacks of blood lust, no upleveled naked people.

And no food buff either right? :P But on a more serious note, glass canon has many different definitions so it’s hard to say what kidbs means. If you put enough in zeal/rad you can output 11k WW on good crits but you give up too many good traits.

IMO, I think a competent AH guard can give a competent warrior a run for his money. I don’t think either class has an advantage over the other, it’s really dependent on player skill in higher level play. What I do believe tho is warriors have a much more efficient setup to get the job done so in most cases. So competent players (not pros per say) can usually show off warriors much easier than guards.

I don’t really think this debate can be ever swayed unless there are options for 1v1 deathmatches. But I’m down for a fightclub with a ‘pro’ warrior anyday. Can’t say I’d win all matches but I’m willing to bet that I’d win 50% of the time.

I want to see an 8k whirl wrath under those circumstances, you won’t even get close to 5k on a 3k+ armor’d opponent. No food, no stacks, no stacking might (other than empower from staff). I mean, if were talking about a full glass cannon guardian with 100~ish crit damage with 3.3k+ attack, then I suppose its possible, but you would be squishier than a glass cannon thief..so to what point does it serve.

First of all, how many people in pvp are running around with 3k armor… not as many as you seem to think. Second of all I never said it was without food buffs. Who realistically runs around with no food buffs in WvW? You would be a fool and gimping yourself.

Unbuffed I’m running at around 2090 power (over 3k attack), 15.5k hp, 2.6k armor, 48% crit and 91% crit damage. I use a 0/10/30/30/0 build (altruistic healing/ empowering might). I also use Omnomberry Ghosts and sharpening stones or skale venom. I build up stacks of bloodlust with one weapon and use superior rune of accuracy on my greatsword.

I have no problem killing people with this build as I generate plenty of healing from my crits alone, have 2 stunbreakers, stability, multiple blocks, damage immunity from my elite, removal of 2 conditions every 10 seconds, and 3 different ways to blind.

You always seem so down on Guardians but I’m guessing that the problem is you haven’t quite mastered the class yet.

lol 15k life and 2.6 armor, you wouldn’t last two seconds in sPvP let alone WvW. I think you’re playing with the pugs dude.

Trolls will be trolls I guess. All I do is WvW and sPvP btw.

CharlieWaffles.1509:

WVW is a marathon not a sprint… It always has been in Guild Wars 2 right or wrong… The end reward is the medal count for the server at the END of the week not the beginning….

Actually it’s nothing more than a numbers game. It’s not that you guys are “outlasting” anyone due to superior stamina or tactics. You just have more coverage during the week when much of the other server’s populations are at work. If the populations of all three servers had the week off from real life obligations I’m sure the numbers would look much as they did over the weekend.

Don’t misread what I’m saying as crying or anything, I just don’t think that your marathon comparison is a very good one to what actually happens in WvW.

This may sound crazy to you but I found that my survivability went up when I switched to all berserkers gear and went with the following build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmQDBFgUhnhKcbkCiHm6h7tfOA

You will have plenty of burst damage to kill anyone, your lifeforce will generate more rapidly and your deathshroud will last quite a bit longer. Don’t underestimate the significance of being able to kill your opponent quickly rather than trying to outlast them.

I like you started out with p/v/t when I first hit 80, but I quickly realized that it was doing nothing for me as I could never kill anyone before they wore through my hp.