Guild Wars 2

This turned heated way too quick. And @ platinum member.

I think you’re mistaken in more ways then one here. Never once did I say damage will be thrown out. And never once did I say that support doesn’t exist, when did I say that? I said they are pushing for an emphasis on it. And I believe you to be wrong about dps being the best armor / build. However you want to put it.

Did he not say these support roles. Will have there place in hot?

You said you dint see dps gear sharing the spot light unless they make more punishing content. Whos to say there not? The current state of the game is pathetic when it comes to pve content and that’s due to speed clearing everything on a 5 man zerker team.

This game is too easy, face rolling content in 5 minutes isn’t fun. Your idea of the game isn’t fun for a lot of players, not all. I’m not speaking on behalf of the whole community. But this combat system , that I promise you I understand very well, lacks depth. Not because the depth isn’t there. But because its just not needed in a game where half of its utility is stuck in the shadows.

I agree with Fox, completely. I’m not saying get rid of dps, no one is. No one has.

@ ardenwolfe, I’m not asking for warcraft, I don’t want to only be able to tank on my blah or heal on my blah ( I ddidnt like wow. Didn’t make it past 20) I’m asking for roles across all classes to be viable., and content to need to take full control of the depth offered in the combat system

And someone please correct me if I took what he said the wrong way. This got my hype back up again I’d like to know now if I’m just being silly !

I’m sure many of us, me for example, missed the poi for this week. After hearing what the devs had to say I thought it would be worth putting into the forums .

Collin came out for the poi and specifically said that, guild wars 2 was never meant to emphasize damage while ignoring support/healing roles. There take on the trinity was to address the problem of professions only having one role, and to instead make it possible for every class to be able to preform any role they wished.

He then went on to say that they are pushing for an emphasis in those roles, and said that new content coming in heart of thrones will require some support and healing .

Idk I thought it was a pretty big deal to be hearing this, and haven’t seen nearly enough talk about it

If it’s true. I welcome it . What are your thoughts

Ranger lb is awesome. And still viable throughout pretty much all of the game. Idk where any of this is coming from

I’d like to add something .. the option to keep the pet stowed in combat … Please a net, please

Let’s please keep the forums on topic, to avoid getting the thread removed please .

GeekDavid.2786:

meeflak.9714:

As I said, my concerns are not new players getting the game for cheap, or in this case, free. My concern is arena net catering to new players while leaving the veterans out. I support bringing in new players. I don’t support leaving your loyall customers in the dark

As I just posted on another thread, this reminds me of when they redid the progression of new characters in the early levels. The reason I heard — which I freely admit might have been wrong, but it fits perfectly with the changes made — was that they were doing it to make it easier for new players. In other words, nerfing vets to make newbies happy.

Now here they are doing it again. Is it any wonder many vets — I said many, not all vets, so kindly don’t come around here accusing me of putting words in your mouth — are up in arms about the repeated overvaluing of new players and undervaluing of veteran players?

Agreed completely

selan.8354:

veteran here
i agree with OP
i dont feel like u are speaking in my behalf , but u are understanding why vets are mad
ty

You’re very welcome , and yes, I am not speaking on behalf of all veterans, I’m simply discussing the frustrations

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m fine with the core game being now free. What I’m not fine with is:

• No extra character slot included with the expansion, which you pretty much need to play the new profession. This raises the price to $60 bucks, instead of $50 bucks.

• The sneaky change to the FAQ, and how they screwed recent players over who bought the core game mere days before making it free.

• The huge price of this small expansion. It has the price of a full game, but we know based on what they’ve shown us, that is not a very big expansion. So, what are paying for? Are we paying for the full game + the expansion for free, or the other way around? Many of us find this very shady. If the core game is truly free, why not include an extra code for the core game along with the purchase? It is not incorrect for the players to feel like they are paying for the core game twice, and only getting a small expansion for it.

• Value for our money. If you compare this expansion with previous expansions for GW1, it is severely lacking in features, and very expensive considering what you get for that price.

• Pre-purchase, yet no details for when it will be ready, or what it will all contain. That’s a lot of money to be spending on a future product of unknown quality, size and release date. Pre-purchase is a bad deal for any player, whether they realize it or not.

I agree with all your points, and like you said, I’m fine with the game being free with purchase.. +1

@vayne. It’s good to see you in the forums again. Its been a while since I’ve had the pleasure.

Not once have I said I got “skrewed over” all’s I’ve said Is. These are the reasons the veterans feel frustrated. We have that right sir. We can feel frustrated, it’s acceptable to feel as though our dedication has been overlooked once again to cater to their new players, and when you look at how they did it. All Those pre expansion sales just to weeks later announce the base game will be included in the expansion, we were only as good as our money

Vayne.8563:

Except they they’ve been selling that game for $10 multiple times already, so OP, how did you feel that thousands of people (probably more) bought it for $10?

As I said, my concerns are not new players getting the game for cheap, or in this case, free. My concern is arena net catering to new players while leaving the veterans out. I support bringing in new players. I don’t support leaving your loyall customers in the dark

Gray.9041:

I’d love to add something, but you seem to have it all pretty well covered. a little lengthy, but it sums up my view on things pretty well.

Add as Much as you’d like, let’s get it all out there

So if we already own the game. We are literally paying full price AGAIN, for a third of the content from the base game…… If. Even a third…. I really hope they take at least one thing there veteran audience says to heart and ’re think there Bull kitten price.

50?….. I was fully hyped for this expansion. After 2 Years something months of supporting it. Absolutely killed my hype. Asking us to pay 50 dollars so they can bundle it in with the base game for new players….. 3000+ hours. 7 level 80’s , full Asd. Kudzu. Tons of dedication. This is a slap in the face.

Artaz.3819:

…

Snaff

…

Engineer creation themed, explosions, inventions, telepathic control! Hello, CC-based legendary.

We need this

Automaton.4926:

What makes you entitled brats think they have a date for you? Seriously is this how you act at school or at work? They don’t have to tell you kitten and you should be lucky they show you the stuff they are working on.

Whoa calm down. Seriously Is that how you act at school or at work?

E3 is right around the corner, I expect to hear about the release then, if not oh well. I’m still super hyped

Automaton.4926:

Gotta write it own into ur busy schedule? Anet will announce when they will reveal the next one, not us. How about just wait till it gets announced? patience is a good thing, it’s not like you will get to play it till the expansion is out.

So hostile

Windsagio.1340:

kind of coming back to the difficulty issue. Full-offense melee works because there’s very rarely anything that puts sufficient strain on the available active defenses and control.

Agreed, we need content that brings forward an importance to other roles/playstyles/skills
all that

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Wow the logic of some people in this forum is actually on insane levels.

The challenge that Anet took up upon devloping this game was to kill off the holy trinity so that there was no forced roles.
After 2+ years, the zerker meta has shown Anet that no matter how hard a MMORPG tries, the player base will generally prefer optimal builds and ‘meta gameplay’, so actually by not forcing any roles, the playerbase in itself makes DPS centric builds completely mandatory for any PVE group, as the meta isnt about completion, but more about time taken… Whats ironic, is the realisation that it is almost impossible to make any build viable for any content, without expecting the players to take the path of least resistance and thus decrease the amount of challenging fun in the game.

So now, its looking like more diversity is being pushed. THANK GOD. And yea, I am of the camp that raids (in some shape or form) will be also coming to gw2, so therefore I expect new content that demands certain role requirements. And yea, I am a little dissapointed that the initial no trinity dream of anet seems to be slowly and surely dying.

HOWEVER

You basically have a simple choice, let the zerk meta continue so it seems like NO OTHER build but zerk is particulary viable. Or try and develop a new and diverse meta in which players are actively challenged by its content, and a diverse set of builds and players options are not only viable, but almost required to complete the challenge.

Now the beauty of Gw2 is the adapable nature of each class in general, so if Anet do this right, most classes will be able to switch hard roles on the fly not just soft. This means you dont need to wait for specific players to do content, but a group communicating role options and adapting their build to suit the groups demands is actively encouraged.

I dunno maybe its just me… BUT when your trying to make a game FUN, this seriously seems like a no brainer to me.

^ this.

ODB.6891:

Bearhugger.4326:

Way to post a 2010 article about a design that was quite obviously scrapped long before the first closed beta was even opened. Just the fact that the devs haven’t talked a single time about that design for 2 years after the game’s release is quite obvious they didn’t knew what to do with it.

When they broke the silence on it in an interview, I don’t have the exact quote but they basically said that the point they were trying to achieve with their dungeon design was to let players play however they want, not to ban players from ever doing anything other than DPS. Pretty sure Colin also said something in AngryJoe’s interview about supporting variety of playstyles when asked about the zerk meta.

Looking at the revenant class and the elite specializations revealed so far, it looks like they’re actually throwing a bone to players who are tired of the pure zerk meta and are going to try to encourage a larger variety of play styles. I didn’t think they’d ever go as far as what I saw with the Ventari reveal, but it looks like a healer may actually be a thing in Heart of Thorns.

Honestly, the whole rhetoric of “if you want X you picked the wrong game” won’t bring the game anywhere. Game design documents are not sacred and immutable artifacts and if the game goes in the wrong direction the developers should not be encouraged to sit on their mistakes and do nothing. And it’s pretty obvious that their original group PvE design was not a good idea because it’s the only aspect of the game that hasn’t been copied. WvW has been copied. World events have been copied. The more active combat has been copied. Living World has not been copied as far as I know but ex-WoW lead designer Greg Street has said that episodic content is pretty much what he’d do if he were to make another MMO. But there hasn’t been another game that has tried to copy how GW2 does it’s group PvE. That should be a pretty big hint that something is wrong.

First, this design intent was clearly not abandoned as there are still no dedicated roles. even the Revenant Ventari legend is still supposed to dps, support, and control…hence why it has a weapon to be used in melee range instead of spamming heals from the back line. This legend is also only 1 of 5 total legends for the Revenant.

Second, players are already playing how they want and that has not and is extremely unlikely to change. If you want to slap on some nomad gear and trait for as much healing as possible…you can do that right now. No one is going to stop you. You can queue up in LFG and either group with people who want to play like that…or try forcing yourself on people who don’t want to play like that. Obviously…one choice is better than the other. I have the same choices when I choose zerk gear. I can choose to join a group that says “all welcome” and suffer though it, or I can join a group that advertises my desired play style and actually enjoy the run. We are already playing how we want…we just aren’t trying to get the developers to force our play style on others…at least I’m not. They have been supporting all play styles since the game launched…hence why you can complete any content in any gear stat combination.

I did not mention any rhetoric about you picking the wrong game…maybe you were referring to a different post. What I am saying is that people need to play the game within its design intent, or just accept that they are doing something less than intended. I’m fully aware that this game is a fluid and changing environment, but I’m also aware of the nature of what I purchased. There’s a difference in them adapting and improving the game…from them completely back peddling on the entire design intent on which they sold the game. The first is expected, the latter is fraudulent.

The design intent was to create a game where all playstyles are supported by the content there playing. The problem with how its handled is there is a lack of importance in other playstyles outside of meta, I don’t think the goal should be a classic trinity. but I do think that the game should take a step towards making other gear sets and playstyles more optimal so players can feel a sense of importance in there choices as well.

You can build however you want and play however you want yes your right. The problem is playing those roles is a more negative experiance due to lack of proper scaling, the meta, and really just a lack of importance in those roles.

I can see how a trinity is against the design this game was based on, but something needs to be done to improve overall gameplay experience for all roles across the game.

What I’d really like to see is something that takes us away from the all zerk meta we are stuck in currently. Everyone keeps saying that they don’t want to see a shift torwards required healing or optimal healing but until we have content that cannot be so easily cleared by the zerkers all those healing builds , weather they are viable or not , will continue to be pushed to the side. The mindset goes, there’s no reason to slow down our dps if we have no reason to, so if we are not required a healer, we don’t want it.

We need content in this game that will give those healing, tanking , support roles purpose, until then they will never be optimal builds and the community will continue to push other viable builds to the side

What’s the point in running a healer if no body needs you and most don’t want you

The combo fields one and limit booms one…. Yes ..please.

Knighthonor.4061:

Finally Anet realizes that the Vanilla design was poorly done.

I’d say done with good intentions. It will be nice to see them make there design of all processions all roles viable throughout gw2

phokus.8934:

piano man.1672:

phokus.8934:

I am having a hard time seeing this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role.

People forget that this same thing was being said about elements talists and engineers when the game first came out.

I didn’t forget. I never saw anything like this being discussed when the game first came out. Nothing to forget

I think you’re wrong on your first point. I definitely see this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role. If a Salvation, Staff-Wielding Ventari Revenant which screams healing for themselves and allies isn’t a step forward to a dedicated healing role, then I’m not sure what is. A step is a step, and I think this is a step in the right direction.

I don’t think I’ve used ‘step’ as much as I have in one post than this one.

People just want to believe what they want to believe which is understandable. But that does not mean this is any step closer to any dedicated healing role in this game. On paper, their healing is ridiculously high which will most likely be scaled down after a few iterations. Their staff and specialization skills are that of Guardians and Elementalists – knowing this one true and hard fact does not mean that any type of dedicated healer is going to be the startup of the class trinity or a dedicated healer.

The core of this game is to be able to spec into whatever you want and still be able to play the game how you want to play it. That aspect is definitely not being changed, modified, or going away – which they’ve made clear. Anything that points to a dedicated healer, damage, or tank role is a step in the wrong direction for GW2… as pointed out by the many posts when the subject is brought up as new posts.

I agree that the idea of play any playsyle you want when you want on any profession is not going to change, but I do however see the possibility of the trinity coming to gw2 .
I wouldn’t necessarily say that rev will be the designated healer, but could very well play the role in what looks to be a shift towards the trinity in gw2. Still could just be wishful thinking though (;

Bearhugger.4326:

piano man.1672:

Belenwyn.8674:

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity.

You’re right. We’ll have an untraditional, unique holy trinity that not only fulfills GW2’s goal of “all classes = any playstyle” , but also fulfills the hopes of individuals who want to see this system in play while still having a system that promotes roles.

If the specializations cause every profession to go this route, I’m all for it.

I’d love to see the day where any profession can fulfill any role.

Amen to that!

Although I’m a bit worried that revenant will be the only class to truly support all roles this well. I have no interest whatsoever into the revenant but I happen to love playing tanky characters in groups so I might be forced to play a rev. Revenants get to be tanky AND get a taunt; not even guards get that.

I Don’t see revs being the only class that will be able to take advantage of the “all roles, Any class” idea, taunt is just one of many tools that can be used, other forms of cc could be a big player too.

Regardless though. I’m excited to see if a gw2 spin-off of the holy trinity will be coming to the meta, I’ve been waiting for that sense launch!

Actually sounds pretty awesome

Relshdan.6854:

definitely not a specialization. the quote refers to “challenges”,

really hope its “challenging group content” that ISN’T just a wyvern rehash (or showing the more difficult versions). crossing my fingers that it’s instanced…or at least hybrid like the Marionnette event from LS1 (still the most fun/best designed group event in the game).

Agreed completely. Marionette proved a net knows how to make good content, I really hope this is the challenging group content week

Take the kholer fight in AC for example. If the break bar is strong enough, trying to stack through kholer could turn into a pretty daunting task. Forcing the group to kite, actually dodge his grab, so on so forth. I just see a lot of potential here

Sagat.3285:

How hard is it for zerkers to include cc and conditions in their specs??

Not hard I agree but if the break bar is strong enough. Having a full team of zerks might crumble under enough damage while waiting for the bar to break. This is my hope st least

If they make the break bars strong enough. It could put enough pressure onto utlity cc and Condi builds to pop back into the game. So it seems at least

So we all know the “break bar” is on it’s way to gw2, seeing as how the break bar can only be depleted by cc’s and Condi’s do you think we might see a change in the zerker meta that currently plagues pve? Do you feel like heavily implementing break bars into the current dungeons could end the stacking and content skipping ?

Every point you tried making here was just ignorant, op. This post ruined my day

I think this elite spec. Deserves it’s hype. I feel the longest running problem with the necro was ds. The new shroud brings so much back to the necromancer and makes there profession mechanic viable. DS. Had very little to offer and was primarily used as a panic mode to reserve health, now we have amazing cleave, stability, a gap closer, whirl finisher, cc with the ice field, fear, party rezzing, life force gained on auto attack, and the ability to siphon life to your hp bar while in death shroud.

They fixed the necromancers biggest flaw in my opinion, and that was death shroud. That alone makes up for a lot of what I thought was wrong with the necro, and there’s still more improvements made that I didn’t talk about.

Even with this, and everything else they did for the necro, I agree with what phys said. These elites are not meant to fix the base class, but to bring other playstyles forward for those classes. Problems with the necromancer will have to be fixed in the base class.

I think they did a great job on the reaper. Seeing such an improvement to death shroud absolutely earns the reaper it’s hype imo. Survivability improved, cleave improved, cc improved, support improved.

And it all looks absolutely stunning

1. Reaper
2. Chronomancer
3. DragonHunter

The hype became real when the announced the reaper. My jaw dropped , hasn’t shut Sense.

I can’t think of a combination I’d really like to see on the warrior,
but anyways.

Warrior/thief – dagger- tricks .
Warrior /engineer -pistol- gadgets

I really don’t see anything I’d like mixed with warrior.

Reaper/banshee
weapon-greatsword
skilltype-shouts
mechanics-f1 stays the same, f2-f3 will slowly deplete life force to benift the player and the party I.e. f2 siphons life force off to party members to heal. Something like that

Reaper will be the new name. It fits so well. Banshee fits well if the speculation of shouts is true

Whip for the mesmer sounds like the greatest thing that could ever happen. Yes please

tyler.2569:

Spirits must be innately mobile and without a time-based-lifespan.
This would enable me to meander through Tyria as a Spiritual Norn, teaching Guru Meditation to all those whom so desire to understand the True Nature of their Existence.
It is my belief that Tyrians will come to find peace in their lives only through Meditation and Self Realization. The nature of our existence goes so far beyond the Gods and Dragons; and if we are not drawing from that fundamental basis, then we will always be approaching our challenges in the night of ignorance.

Taking away the mobility of my Spirits essentially takes away the mobility of my teaching.
For it is through my Spirits that I am lead to those whom are capable of Hearing the Teaching.

Sure, my Spirits and I could live in a cave somewhere in the Shiverpeaks; but we’ve all seen what’s become of Blane ( the Insane). Would I really want to subject my aspirants to that? I don’t think so.

I therefor propose that it is for the Spiritual Betterment of all of Tyria that Spirits remain capable of mobility; indeed that Spirits are innately mobile, and without that time-based-lifespan ( time is so yesterday [ hehe ] ).

I also propose that all Rangers whom summon the maximum amount of Spirits at once ( 5 ) receive an Aura while doing so; thus, indicating that they are Teachers of the Way, for those with less than acute vision.

However, being resigned to the Mysterious Ways of Life, I wholly accept it if such is not the case. I aspire not to interfere with forces beyond my own will, but only to help spread a Message of Peace and Understanding.

— Sincerely, a Kind and Humble Spirit Ranger

We are friends. I support this. I support you

Daegony.3604:

I like the idea of Mantras as their new skill type. It would sound better as Chants or Prayers, but I guess Mantras fit.

I agree, they may not be my favorite gameplay wise, but mantras fit with the guardian quite well, possibly better then they do with the mesmer. With meditation being a staple for the guardian, mantras would definitely be a logical addiction to there skills. Not a whole lot of skill types fit with the gaurdian, mantras seem to fit just perfectly

RoseofGilead.8907:

In Guild Wars 1 the Druids we met were long-dead. They were human in life and forced into the Maguuma Jungle. There isn’t any note of them having an ability to shapeshift while they were alive, but they shed their human bodies and became part of nature (becoming the giant tree-like spirits we saw in Prophecies and see in certain summon skills in GW2).

Obviously, we don’t know if Anet will follow GW1 lore (as far as transformation goes) or if they’ll bring in something completely new.

I’m hoping it’ll go in a direction of more natural magic rather than more spirit summoning and such.

The clip we got in the announcement trailer supports nature magic I feel. Hopefully that’s the path we take !

One of the key elements that I’ve always found key with a “druid” is the ability to take on the form of animals. I do not see a net taking this route for the druid in guild wars 2.

Guild wars 2 already has the ability to transform into animals through the Racial utility skills of the norns. Giving the druids the ability to shapshift would negate the norns unique racial mechanics. I don’t see Arena net doing that, and the only solution I can see to it would be to get rid of racial skills , which I’ve seen some speculation from other players saying that is possible as well

I dont think arena net will get rid of racial skills, nor do I think they will give druids the ability to shape shift.

So the question is, what do you think will be the theme from druids? Will it be just nature magic? Something they already have slight ability to do(spirits, entangle) things like that. Or will they find a way to work in shape shifting

I feel like revenant maystill get a ranged weapon , I’d be happy to see one. Give A heavy class a short bow maybe ? Lol

I’m guessing torch for warrior

Guardian- Long bow (rumor has it)

Eke-main hand sword (I pray this is true)

I’d have to say it’s less likely to be released through the gem store

Mesmer-shield-wells

ranger-staff-arcane

gaurdian-lb- spirits

Ele-sword-trap/Mark

thief-rifle-physical

engi-hammer-minions(based on the hot trailer)

Necro-gs-cantrip/venom. I hate the idea of shouts on a necro (also, leeching venom trait skill for thief siphons life, something important to the necro)

warrior-torch-Traps

Nilix.2170:

Engineer gets a weapon swap.
Done.
Boom.
/everything

I can’t even argue with that lol