giving trap(s) a stunbreak will exactly solve OUR problem, which is a general lack of on-demand stability. if traps stun-broke, I would slot them. simple as that.
we need stunbreaks anyway, so we’re going to slot them one way or the other. I’m just saying, put one on a trap so we can start using it along with an invuln and maybe one other trap. that’s not even looking at the other problem of not having condi cleansing in that case.
or just give us an interesting GM to make traps viable.
I couldn’t care less about a new amulet. id rather you guys make settler, rabid, cleric, knights, cavalier, carrion, i.e. MOST OF THEM, actually viable in builds. or just remove them and tell people “look, it’s not a lot, but you can just use marauder and cele. thx.”
FYI, in case it’s not clear from your “internal testing”, when people are getting spiked down for 15k damage on 3k armor (either by burns or mesmers), you’ll never see people using ammies that don’t have any vit.
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traps need secondary functions to them, and they would be usable. their damage is great. so I’m talking stun breaks, boons, condi clears, and possibly stealth every now and then.
traps cannot be slotted now because we need at least one stun break and preferably an invuln or a second stun break.
a lot of this goes back to us not having usable weapons.
he only posted the changes that were written in stone. there are likely a lot more changes theyre still working on leading up to the xpac.
any comments on this?
too bad avatar and staff don’t have any access to condis. I’m not convinced condi druids will work at all.
what have we got?
traps – where is the invuln and stun breaker?
a/d – limited by reflects and blocks, no aoe
torch – our best condi weapon
am I missing something?
I wish they would make Poison Master a thing.
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Blizz’s Overwatch is rolling out with a full competitive pvp infrastructure (playable in the upcoming beta), and I think that game is gonna kill it right out the gate. there’s nothing like saving your “art” of crushing it, showing your guildies, using it to teach others, or watching it later over a beer for your own pleasure.
will gw2 ever get a replay function? it’s been over 3 years.
Blizz’s Overwatch is rolling out with a full competitive pvp infrastructure (playable in the upcoming beta), and I think that game is gonna kill it right out the gate. there’s nothing like saving your “art” of crushing it, showing your guildies, using it to teach others, or watching it later over a beer for your own pleasure.
will gw2 ever get a replay function? it’s been over 3 years.
the average d/d ele is easily soloable by a power ranger. but I don’t think this nerf affected the best d/d eles too much.
regardless, we’ll have much bigger things to worry about with the expansion. the ele is a joke compared to what the chrono and herald can do.
I think there is something in the works to protect all the zoos of this game from aoe damage.
I like the suggestion, /supported. currently, SoH is so boring and not slot-able. might have been ok if it had stun break.
SoH should basically take the place of empowerment glyph, and the glyph should be reworked.
I doubt leagues will launch with the expansion. they will have way too many other priorities to make sure the game is chugging along. probably a few weeks in, maybe a month, we’ll get leagues.
burn guards kill you just because youre letting them.
Our team ran five burn guards for awhile today as a joke.
They don’t even regularly play guardians.
We won every match.
hotjoin / low mmr doesn’t count. you have to stop coming up with ideas, conclusions and judgements based on low level play.
I hope this not 80% of the work done to druids.
There’s more right?
or is it, just 5 more changes on the 23rd?
Guys? gals?
there should be lots more. staff changes for sure. not sure if shout buff will make it in.
you’ll have to get a little bit more creative. i can think of several offensive variants that will likely play like a gs/staff guardian, doing respectable damage outside of avatar with staff/GS, and providing heals, CC and 15% extra damage for the squad in avatar.
^the amount of team support eles provide pales in comparison, especially with the new healing numbers and Grace of Land.
the only way I can think of cele druid doing good damage and staying relevant in 1v1’s is by somehow incorporating beastmastery into the build and just going for double birds.
Key to supporting your group in WvW is condi control and boons which the Druid sadly lacks.
any good zerg stomping/gvg guild will have at least 2 guards in a squad. there’s your stability and condi control. put a druid in there for the heals and proft.
Replacing dropped players has come up in internal conversation before – but ultimately I don’t think the solution works for Guild Wars 2. We’ll be bringing dishonor back with PvP Leagues which should help with this issue considerably.
make it hurt Josh. make it hurt.
Well at least there’s Reaper…
I’m good, thanks. druid received a lot of buffs with more to come. actually, every single change was recommended by multiple posters in the feedback thread. everything was basically as expected, except druid’s GM’s got insanely buffed. enjoy the reaper!
Anyhow, this conversation is kind of moot now. Some of Irenios shared information improves Druid builds by leaps and bounds, to the point that evaluation will start for me at square 1 again. Will discuss there.
. true. wont celestial stats be great now?
(i don’t think cele ele has any good “on-demand” spike heals. I’m pretty sure we can heal someone to full in seconds with the newest numbers. rejuv glyph + LI is basically a near instant 10k heal…then we can blast finish our sublime conversion thrice)
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So now, we have to go through a cooldown and reach max Astral Force to use our transform. Two gates is completely unnecessary, Anet.
no, this was completely necessary, random player. i had my celestial energy bar full at all time sduring BWE3. with no cooldown, i was almost perma avatar form, which made the “form” of it a completely pointless concept.
yay, and he comes through! good changes man.
Feedback:
kitten, those druid GM’s look so good now. so good.
thx for increasing Unity’s leash! needs more testing, but I think 600 should be enough. still not convinced of its offensive component.
Alignment – 3 stacks of poison, more weakness and cripple… I think I would actually slot it now. i can see it being devastating when cast at the right time, and changing outcome of battle.
Ancestral Grace – daaaamn son, u made this an evade? wont complain, but yeah.
good avatar changes. that’s actually a buff to offensive druids, as we get to keep half the energy. i also see celestial ammy being a very strong choice now, and clerics will be outputting insane level heals..
LI change – ok saw it coming.
Missed Opportunities for Later
- the huge problem you missed with the avatar is its #1. in BWE3, there was no point in casting it. i’d channel #4, then cast LI, spam a seed or two and cast NC…followed maybe by another LI. #1 cannot hit a moving ally, period. the cast time is too long, radius too small.*
- Seed of Life still needs to explode a little bit earlier, or have a much larger radius. it’s very clumsy to use outside of pve.*
- hope you guys are still working on staff #2 and #4 changes. staff feels unfinished with 2 nearly useless abilities.*
But I think having you lose half your energy by ending early, especially with the condition that you can only ENTER the form at 100% charge, is a little unfair..
what? before we lost ALL the energy.
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^that’s what I’m saying, decrease LI to like 2.5s base. MoC is too important for us.
Sic’em is really strong when used in the right circumstances
you can argue this for every useless ability in the game. “when used in the right circumstances.” the thing is, for a utility to be useful, it really need to be useful under various circumstances!
secondly, u shouldn’t need reveal to kill a Mesmer or a thief. this is really the crucial point.
the truth about Sic ‘Em is that it sucks. no stun break, no condi cleanse, no damage boost (pet isn’t reliable damage, and when it is, the bonus tends to bug out), no invuln, no escape, no boons. luckily the devs are aware of shouts being really bad right now and I’m looking forward to the reworks.
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“Burn builds are like turret engis”
yes, exactly. the more bads complain, the harder and sooner it will get nerfed into uselessness. exactly like turret engies, OP makes a crucial point.
I don’t remember the last time I actually died to a burn guard in the top mmr bracket, and here we arguably fight the best ones (maybe 2 or 3 names that come to mind).
Druid came out in really bad shape.
no it didn’t, lol.
I don’t even think Druid, in its BWE state, would compete for a slot in a premade 5 man team composition in terms of pure optimization. It’s too healing pure, and it gets shut down way too easily without Stability and Mitigation.
Classic case of rangers performing too linear of a role while other classes perform way too many roles.
he’s kinda wrong, but so are you. there simply wasn’t enough time in the BWE3 to make the conclusion that druid wouldn’t make it into a premade comp. and I actually have no idea what youre basing this judgement on, considering a bunch of us were super successful running offensive hybrid builds.
I actually ran a celestial build that had plenty of stab (Enlargement + SotP), sustain (perma prot, evades), 1v1/bunker capability, heals, and utility for the team. it actually very much reminded me of shoutbow playstyle, except it had way more utility. I was also winning many 1v1’s while roaming with marauder stats.
regarding daze, the only skill that needs looking into is LI because it’s virtually spammable, and a 6s lockout is insane. equality glyph’s 4s was fine, the staff swap was fine, and hilt bash was fine.
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Well Irenio Irenio, but to me i think there is a lot more capable people to shape ranger a lot better, i’m looking at you Karl Mclain, this dude knows what’s up!
lol what? first of all, that’s a pretty rude thing to say. secondly, check your facts.
There’ve been some changes to Druid staff, glyphs, traits and Celestial avatar skills.
One change I can mention is that Ancestral Grace will now end as soon as you reach your destination rather than having to wait out the animation. We weren’t able to do this before with point-based movement, but an awesome programmer threw together a way for us to script it in.
As Belzebu calls out: You’ll have to check out the rest of the changes on the 23rd!
Hi Irenio,
Thanks. I’m really excited to see that you guys are touching up all the elements we gave feedback on, regarding the druid at least. That Astral Grace change is the bomb, and I hope to see lots of improvements to #2 and #4 as well.
That being said, as most of us predicted, having only one beta weekend to test and give feedback on prior to release was a bit of a mis-step on your guys’ end. For instance, there is absolutely no guarantee that the changes you’re making currently (just prior to launch) are going to be sufficient. Most other profs got several chances for iteration, and even then they will need more work. So there is definitely a bit of inequality going on here, not sure what that’s about. My suggestion is that you at least run them by us this week, so the masses of experienced ranger players can filter out some of the glaring bad changes (IF there are any).
More than any other profession, we are most eager to find out about the changes to the core ranger. i.e. shouts, reverting the knee-jerk WHaO nerf (or at least reaching a reasonable compromise), spirits, axes, shortbow and so on. While you may not have time to get these out on Oct. 23, we hope these changes are your very next priority.
Once again, great work on the druid and good luck with the launch!
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I ran a full daze build in BWE3. I had MoC, LI, glyph of equality, the hilt bash, etc. I would say, only 50% of the dazes I cast actually hit people. chronos and revs were basically perma blocking everything, aegis was on everything, and other times I was blinded.
long story short, my 6s daze LI’s were quite underwhelming.
this looks similar to the valk remorseless ranger, but with less damage and CC because we’re giving up BM. my current valk lb/gs just wouldn’t work if my birds weren’t spiking people for 4-7k while taunting them. so without BM, the damage most definitely wouldn’t be there. Pet’s Prowess, BW, and Loud Whistle are just too good. I really wanted it to work with druid though.
in BWE 3 I tried your [similar] build with marauder stats and it worked out well. I was mostly using staff because it did so much damage reliably with air and fire procs, only switching to the GS every now and then. I definitely needed the rauder stats to make damage more reliable.
what I like about crusader stats is the tankiness, 2k power and that extra HP. as you said, it might be strong depending on how they change the druid.
other comments…imo, celestial shadow and druidic clarity are absolutely essential. they are so, so, so good. hands down the best traits the ranger has ever had.
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the only thing that needs to change is Lunar Impact. should be 2.5s baseline. don’t touch MoC.
I can assure you that whoever was using the SB was experimenting. and I certainly didn’t see any of the “best rangers” in NA using the SB, at least not in soloq. unless theyre below my mmr. and good players can make anything “sorta work”. further, if there was a viable SB build, it would have been made obvious probably back in july/august.
WH cant be used for anything because Call of the Wild has been useless since vanilla beta (3+ years)
Torch – currently, there are no viable condi ranger builds. this is mostly due to the fact that we cant use rabid or settler amulets due to lack of vit. mesmers can instagib u for 15k on 3k armor. once we have some builds available, torch will be quite nice.
sword – purely defensive weapon, needs work. currently useless because we don’t have any viable condi builds
axe isn’t viable on power builds due to poor scaling.
OH axe is unusable, because like WH, it has a non-functional skill out of the two.
dagger isn’t viable in power builds.
SB is beyond unusable.
yes it all sounds so melodramatic but it’s the truth. this is from high mmr conquest perspective.
Even recently it was listed on metabattle.com and made plenty of appearances on sundays in tourneys as the cele survival ranger.
lol metabattle. listen man, you can put a ranger on a team right now. but that team wont go very far. druids may give us some offensive hybrid options, but until most of our weps and GM’s are reworked, there’s not much to look forward to.
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the core weapons are terrible and badly need reworks. only lb/gs power rangers are viable. dagger is a decent weapon, and warhorn is almost there. but the rest are a disaster.
on the bright side, staff feels pretty slick.
ive wiped points enough times against good players to know that it’s not only possible, but very likely when timed well. I ran MoC, which made my LI daze for 6s. obviously, you wouldn’t cast it when they have stab up. not to mention that LI is virtually spammable. and the combo is LI —> NC.
given that druid has no other stab (SoW being a bad utility), not equipping SotP is less than ideal. with Druidic Clarity, seed, and maybe 2 other condi clears (TU and QZ for example), you don’t need any more.
what’s wrong with people dying to burn guardians?
they don’t bring enough condi cleanse.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition
88 skills/traits/runes that remove a condition in some way.
68 that cause burning in some way.13 total conditions and some have more than burning probably.
3 skills that remove every single condition and 2 have 60s, one has 40s cooldown.
It’s easy to get multiple conditions but multiple condition removal is pretty hard, especially when their sole use is to remove conditions but not all of them. Either way there isn’t enough when conditions have tiny cooldowns compared with any of those removals.
I run only two condi cleanses on my power ranger and I almost never die to burn guards.
It’s not per target but AoE will trigger it on all targets hit before going on cooldown.
lunar impact daze followed by natural convergence is super deadly combo that can wipe an entire point with the help of your team.
similarly u can use glyph of tides. the knockback/pull registers first, and the damage right after proccing the seeds. this doesn’t work on equality glyph I believe. but u can do maul after the daze.
you shouldn’t need to slot entangle at all if youre going ancient seeds. SotP is best choice for pvp imo, at least until they buff unity.
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Irenio is here for druid only really, don’t count on him caring/fixing core ranger.
he was behind a lot of the trait revamps for June 23 patch.
Every class had to get their traits revamp, it wasn’t like it was something unique for ranger nor did it really fix ranger.
Irenio was behind the trait revamps for the ranger and they were excellent, albeit not perfect. you said he doesn’t care about core ranger, so I’m simply just destroying that argument. youre just hitting your head against a wall, and you’ll complain regardless. it’s basically all you do on the forums. haven’t seen one constructive post from you.
Irenio is here for druid only really, don’t count on him caring/fixing core ranger.
he was behind a lot of the trait revamps for June 23 patch.
3 years of broken weapons and a dozen broken utilities, 3 years of poor design with no direction or inspiration. 3 years of the worst profession mechanic in the game.
a good Mesmer will spike you for 15k on 3k armor
this is silly. it really doesn’t matter what class you are playing if you let a burster burst you.
we might as well say ‘a good Druid will daze you continuously’ and it would be about as relevant.
good interrupt mesmers will pop you for that much out of stealth, you cant see it coming. you need to be able to survive that, and whatever follows after.
getting dazed a few times is not the same as getting dazed, interrupted and spiked for 15k.
Going to echo what people have said a few times. That is anyone. Not just druid. So it doesn’t really belong being discussed here.
if by echo, you mean parrot, go right ahead. im totally on topic. you think you can run clerics in pvp, and I’m telling you that you cannot because 15.9k HP because instagib.
when I made a thread suggesting that rangers become a high HP prof, you should have supported that. then we could run settlers, rabid, cavalier, zerker and clerics in pvp. currently, you cannot. in fact, you cant run anything other than marauder, valk and celestial. not effectively, not successfully.
I kinda feel your issue is a “learn to play” issue, if you think anything that has 15.9k or lower hp is ineffective in spvp
with over 3k hours on my ranger in the top MMR, playing against the best players in the game every match, I have to admit, it’s sort of a “being down to earth and intimately connected to reality” issue.
other specs that have that sort of HP have an immense amount of offensive capability, stealth, and in the case of eles perma prot and huge sustain. in other words, you haven’t a kittening clue about what youre talking about.
considering the shape the druid was in during BWE3, running cleric is completely suicidal not to mention pointless as you cant contribute any damage whatsoever.
back on topic: if you want to see druids in high tier play, don’t touch the base heals. but make them scale better with HP. the offensive/hybrid druid will be essential, and those who know conquest know this.
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1. pet condis cancel each other out instead of stacking. i.e. hawk and cat bleeds. this can be verified by enabling simple condi UI floaters.
2. when respawning after a death in conquest, we are still in combat.
a good Mesmer will spike you for 15k on 3k armor
this is silly. it really doesn’t matter what class you are playing if you let a burster burst you.
we might as well say ‘a good Druid will daze you continuously’ and it would be about as relevant.
good interrupt mesmers will pop you for that much out of stealth, you cant see it coming. you need to be able to survive that, and whatever follows after.
getting dazed a few times is not the same as getting dazed, interrupted and spiked for 15k.
Going to echo what people have said a few times. That is anyone. Not just druid. So it doesn’t really belong being discussed here.
if by echo, you mean parrot, go right ahead. im totally on topic. you think you can run clerics in pvp, and I’m telling you that you cannot because 15.9k HP because instagib.
when I made a thread suggesting that rangers become a high HP prof, you should have supported that. then we could run settlers, rabid, cavalier, zerker and clerics in pvp. currently, you cannot. in fact, you cant run anything other than marauder, valk and celestial. not effectively, not successfully.
Mist, I have tried that and version with skirmishing, NM or BM. It is not a stable build as in you will just die to a coordinated spike. Also, you will simply be out pressured by a Revenant or Scrapper. Hell, Even Eles pose a problem.
The issue with any full on glass build is that it is very unreliable without stealth. While the Ranger/Druid can get some it is not in ample supply like it is with Mesmer or Thief. We also do not have teleports.
it’s cool that you tried it, I appreciate that, but again that hasn’t been my experience.
because avatar doesnt have a cooldown, I had more than enough stealth. while it’s only 2s, we also get SS which allows you to reposition anywhere. maybe staff energy gain will get nerfed a bit, who knows.
I ran GS/staff, so I could traverse 2400 range in two seconds.
a good Mesmer will spike you for 15k on 3k armor
this is silly. it really doesn’t matter what class you are playing if you let a burster burst you.
we might as well say ‘a good Druid will daze you continuously’ and it would be about as relevant.
good interrupt mesmers will pop you for that much out of stealth, you cant see it coming. you need to be able to survive that, and whatever follows after.
getting dazed a few times is not the same as getting dazed, interrupted and spiked for 15k.
I have spent the entire weekend PvPing and WvWing with the druid. I tried all sorts of combinations. That famed 6 seconds daze build is totally worthless because you really have no defensive capability and you lose out on the ever useful BM or NM line.
that hasn’t been my experience at all. it’s very effective in team fights and 1v1’s. I played gs/staff and just roamed all day without ever dying. landing a 6s Lunar Impact can net your team several kills. I ran this daze build:
and did very well. you just have to know when to pop avatar. sometimes u just flash it for the stealth to get out and reset. my energy bar was always full spamming staff. it was virtually impossible to die with celestial shadow. you could try the same build with LTW staff/LB.
alternatively, you can drop the glyph and MoC, and just go BM/WS/druid. because of our reactive resets (staff 3, celestial shadow), you really shouldn’t need protective ward.
mind you, I did run a celestial stat build with NM/WS/druid and grove runes, and I was just facetanking everything.
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cleric amulet is absolutely useless in conquest. a good Mesmer will spike you for 15k on 3k armor. that’s basically all of your HP. now imagine getting focused by 2 or 3 people. this is what happens in top tier of play. once your SoS is gone, given that you have no reactive stab or on-demand prot, your cleric druid gets insta popped.
celestial amulet with grove rules worked quite nicely, but damage wasn’t quite there. with a significant buff to Warhorn’s damage, this could change. s/wh/staff synergized beautifully.