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Why would you want might out of combat?
Actually Anet has already implemented a neat little trick to fix this problem.
If you, like so many forum warriors, are having trouble weaseling your way into a group… Unable to battle through that barbarous LFG and it’s horde of toxic elitists with their hot, foamy hatred that jets forth from their meanspirited keystrokes? Then just follow Anet’s neat little guide.
Step 1, Click the Party Menu button at the top of your screen (Or use default hotkey ‘P,’ less APM = pro)
Step 2, Click create Squad.
Step 3, Click Make Squad 10 man (raid).
Step 4, List your group in LFG.
Now you too can raid, even if you weren’t an original HoT Beta Tester…!
Work for me… But it’s only in combat. And also, it only procs when you turn on Impossible Odds, not each pulse.
They really just need to revert it and deal more with the druid problem. Id say nerf GotL to 1%, reduce druid healing outside of pvp by 20%, and make druid heals target 10 players and spirits passive target 10 players (but not their boon share.)
That would give the druid a better niche of the raidwide healer and damage buffer with making room fo4 other healers and offensive supports.
Druids are actually the worst healers out of them all as far as pure healing goes…
It’s just nobody really cares about pure healing since most damage is avoidable, and the chronotank brings his own sustain… So it comes down to who bring the best buffs for your DPS… You could nerf druid healing by 80% and it’d probably still be 2 druids in most experienced groups.
We know from various thread posts that new raids are coming, that’s a given:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/new-expansion-has-no-raid/first#post6667709
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-perma-revealed-unblockable-auras/first#post6705564However, why isn’t there even a small mention of it on the official expansion page:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/path-of-fire/I’m sure most of the Heart of Thorns raiders will buy Path of Fire if they know there is a Raid there, but not everyone is reading the forums to know that.
Most Heart of Thorns raiders will buy Path of Fire to stay competitive with the meta anyways… Well, I guess Chronotanks and Druids don’t have to… But yeah.
As such even if Anet were to admit that the core mechanic of the class is in need of review (and I’m of the opinion that it does https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Citadel-Order-Suggestions/) I suspect that reverting the change and allowing the class to share Fervour is something that they have decided via their playtesting not to do.
Agreed… Either tone down Fervor and make it sharable. (Even if it’s via a Grandmaster Trait.)
Or change all the utilities to mesh with being pure solo dps class that can actually compete for spots in groups with Weaver, Holo, Mirage, and Firebrand.
Cuz as it is now, it’s a self buff without a bunch of tools to properly take advantage of it. At BEST it’s going to come down to taking Renegade for Fervor and then just channeling Jalis Hammers and then either Embrace or Impossible Odds (depending on condi or power) while auto attacking. So, COOL exactly like Herald, but with a low single target damage short bow option, just what the Rev community needed to get excited about their class again.
I like that 40 farms exist… It gives all the Dungeon Heroes something low level to be toxic about.
I mean, they put Rytccat in prison and just left it at that…. Didn’t even talk about it in the final LW chapter. He’s probably going sit in prison, channelling his inner Riot Grrl through the mists and come out all Kalla’ed up and ready to revolt.
I’m guessing you haven’t played the PvE beta, some very minor spoilers: SpoilerRytlock is randomly released by the Citadel and is already in the Desert at the end of the very first chapter
Ahhh, was he all Kalla’d up? I only played up to the main city in the Beta weekend because I reskined my armor to my legendary and dyed it celestial, and then that broke the game. :P
Sword = Mobile Block/Immobilize/Fury Access/Breakbar damage (although not always practical to use due to the teleport.)
Axe = Gap closing teleport/Slow Access/Condition Damage/AoE Breakbar Damage
Shield = Two Heals/Protection Access/Longest Block (also longest block cooldown and you can’t move while blocking.)
Honestly, they’re all pretty useful in different situations… You can kind of go with what you like the best. The only thing I would recommend is to always use Axe in raids as you have little use for blocks and to never use Shield in large scale WvW as the block will just get you surrounded and killed. (Although it’s really strong in sPvP.)
Lol such animosity over my post.. I’m just stating the fact that such programs are abused and this is in fact undeniably real. I just don’t like seeing people, specially the newbies who try really hard to get ostracized for one reason or another, specially over the blown up egos of people who think they’re better than other people. ^^ I remember a time when GW2 was so much friendlier and such things though not unheard of are quite minimal.
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You say that people who set requirements for their groups and don’t want to do end game content with complete noobs have overblown egos?
How about the Plebs who join a group that SPECIFICALLY says “Experienced” without bothering to even look up the fight on Dulfy, or watch a youtube video, and then flat out lie via ommission about their experience? Aren’t they the ones who are so self important that they actually get OUTRAGED and feel VICTIMIZED by the “omg elitist toxic community” who refuse to do the work for them and give them a free ride through content? That’s called entitlement.
Should we really feel bad for the guy who shows up and acts OBLIVIOUS to the fact that he’s jerking around nine other people and wasting their time? Because maybe he’ll get free loot and his priorities are more important than everyone else’s? Are we really supposed to feel bad for that guy? Really?
Look, if someone’s being a toxic elitist in a casual/training group, okay, they suck at life… But you got to draw the line somewhere… And for the record, if someone new to raiding really wants to improve their play, third party meters are THE MOST VALUABLE TOOL at their disposal.
In WoW, you used to have similar mandatory buffs that meant some classes were always taken, while others never were.
In fact since the first xpac, Burning Crusade, I don’t remember that a class wasn’t allowed in a competitive raid group. Only some “pvp” spec, like frost mage, weren’t. Even in vanilla I don’t think some classes weren’t allowed, but i didn’t raid in vanilla, so i’m not sure. And since Cataclysm (third xpac) all spec are competitive and allowed in raid.
I dislike many things at WoW, but its raid balance is far better to GW2. And classe roles were more logic since the beginning, on contrary to what we see in GW2. At WoW all heavy armor classes can tank while the light armored casters cannot. The mesmer situation is a joke in this game.
That’s because leveling a character in WoW was such a brutal time sink, people would riot if their class got over nerfed… But there were still required classes for buffs and such. Healing subs needed a Shadow priest for mana region, tank subs wanted a warlock for Blood Pact, Melee DPS groups wanted an enhance shaman for the wind totem thing. Every group needed a shaman for bloodlust, etc…
There still were classes that were better though… Nobody could touch a Destruction Locks dps for a real long time in Burning Crusade. Paladins were the best trash tanks, War’s boss tanks, Druids group healing, etc… I guess the one thing you could say about WoW was that they did a good job of making sure almost every raid encounter had a “Job” that only one class could do well.
What Guild Wars lacks in making every class feel important, it more than makes up for by making it so ridiculously easy/fast to level and gear a character. The game literally pukes Tomes of Knowledge at you and you can even share your ascended gear if you have to. So if your favorite guy falls out of the meta, it’s not such a big deal.
Also, in WoW, you had gear to carry you. Every raid was tuned below the gear that dropped there. So that, you know, you could actually do it to get said gear, and said gear had to be an upgrade otherwise who’d even want it. So eventually, each raid would get exponentially easier every time your guild cleared it… This allowed sub-optimal classes to get away with being able to raid—they would have overpowered gear for the content.
As far as I know, GS is meta for DH’s when paired with the Scepter/torch… You sometimes see guards use the longbow though in fractals, and it’s whatever… It’s not entirely useless. Decent breakbar damage, can root a bunch of mobs for AoE, max range safety mode… I dunno, max deeps aren’t as important as being able to stay alive. People actually appreciate a DH using aegis skills and setting up projectile denial there rather than going hamm on the dps meters.
But, it’s sort of a moot point, in less than thirty days I’m pretty sure all Guards will just be using axes.
But if you’re choosing between Guard/War and your entire deciding factor is using a Greatsword, for whatever reason that might be (aesthetics I imagine?)… I’d go Guard.
Warriors never get to go GS in PvE these days (unless all they have is a power set, and the friends they play with don’t mind), but that will likely switch to daggers with Spellbreaker, since they provide might in their auto attack chain and will almost certainly do more dps.
Likely, Warriors will still use Greatsword in sPvP/WvW tho…
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Most likely wishful thinking but in a gamescom interview MO was asked what happened to dervishes from GW1 and he smiled saying “we’ll have to see for ourseleves” or something.
Renegade is bland / super lacklustre and only going to be used in PvE (even that’s best case scenario), what if we’ll get another elite spec?
All new elite specs fit the lore of the region, except Kalla who’s from the northern corner of another continent belonging to a race that’s never been to Elona, plus you know, rev has the least amount of weapon skills and such.. maybe they’ll surprise us with something?
#believe
I’m guessing Kalla is going to fit thematically because the story will probably have a lot of shake ups and revolutions going on within the Charr… I mean, they put Rytccat in prison and just left it at that…. Didn’t even talk about it in the final LW chapter. He’s probably going sit in prison, channelling his inner Riot Grrl through the mists and come out all Kalla’ed up and ready to revolt.
As for TWO elite specs, I hope not. While I’m not thrilled with Renegade, I’d at least like them to focus on doing one thing right for revenant for once—not divide their effort across what would be three buggy, half thought elite specs.
That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.
The thing is—even before Rev got all the recent condi love—Power Jalis/Glint was ALSO only a few thousand behind the other power classes on small hitbox, and nobody wanted them then just as nobody wants them now.
So things haven’t really changed THAT much for revs… They’re still a few K behind the other classes… Which is fine. And while I agree that it’s certainly viable to take a Rev, I gotta say that it should not be your only class. Playing Rev is a luxury to do with friends/guildies or once people in the raid scene know who you are and trust you to not screw up the fight.
But telling some guy that making a Rev is a “viable” choice for raiding is just leading him down a path of extreme frustration since OBVIOUSLY he’s going to be trying to pug most of his kills. If he had a guild to raid with he wouldn’t even have to ask a question like that on the forums… :P Why steer someone down the dark, infuriating path of not finding groups and having to constantly hear, “Ummm, got any other classes?” Just to prove a point and be anti-meta? Poor form.
Those sound like some powerful combos. I’ll give it a try when I get the chance. Axe just seems too mainstream right now :P Thanks for your replies!
I really can’t picture myself using Axe in WvW, while it’s certainly a lot better than it used to be in sPvP (even for power revs now with that slow on 4), there’s just too much crap that can go wrong in WvW… If all the inconsistent terrain doesn’t drive you crazy causing both axe skills to fail or miss or bug out, there’s just too many people in those fights dropping aoe’s and crap to even use 4 as an engaging tool without just killing yourself. I guess 5 can be useful as a poke.
I mean, obviously it’s a preference thing… But I will use sword 4 in every single fight, whether it’s a duel, a skirmish, or a zerg. With axe, I’m probably only using it in fights that I’d already of won anyways… VEEEERRRYYYY rarely will a great axe play turn a losing fight into a winning one. I should note that I usually play with Shiro unless I’m part of a zerg-war, so Phase Traversal is always there for chasing.
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Sword offhand has always been my go-to in WvW… Ark’s sword 4/4/5/2/SotM combo is a classic and having another mobile block is so important in there.
I believe the OP. This is actually a very real issue.
This is actually true for most people.. since most of the people who run cm run third party software to check out your dps, gear, etc.. and will auto-kick you should you perform below their standards. Besides that most groups also require you to already have done the run and have the title. Which makes it really hard to get the titles in the first place because its such a closed group.
ANET should really disallow third party software at the least. Its not healthy for the game. Specially for the new and/or casual players.
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The only thing that does is enable people who lie about their gear/experience to get into a group and then waste everyone else’s time who were there expecting a serious experienced run. It happens all the time in LFG raids when the commander isn’t strict about gear checks/kill proof. Some dude will lie, drop poison in the middle of the group, get kicked, and waste everyone’s time/food buffs…
I argue that gear checks are HEALTHY for the game. I guess it depends on your standpoint, maybe feeling excluded gives you the bad feels… But you know what else sucks? Joining an experienced group, popping your food buffs, and then realizing that 1/2 the people don’t know what’s going on and you just wasted a bunch of your time sitting in the squad, waiting for it to get organized, and then finally doing however many attempts it takes before you finally decide it’s hopeless and leave.
If not being able to find a group due to group’s strict requirements is a real issue for MOST people, as you say, then the OP should have no problem finding people to join a group with lower requirements should he start one. Sometimes you need to be the one to organize it, you can’t get carried through everything…
You say it does “almost every boon”, but what really? Ideally you’d only be maintaining Fury, Might, and Resonance; you don’t have the upkeep to do anything else. The Protection facet is pretty good, I’ll admit, but you simply don’t have the upkeep. You cripple your ability to do anything else by using it, and it doesn’t help against conditions. You could probably come up with some neato rotation to maintain Fury, Protection, Swiftness, and Regeneration, but either way your Might stacks are gonna be crippled. Regeneration seems almost pointless unless you have the healing power to back it up; maybe I’m wrong in that regard. Swiftness is a minor convenience in most fights and provided by tons of professions.
Technically, when Rev was in the meta for Natural Resonance, you would spin Jalis Hammers, auto attack, and precision strike off cd until out of energy and then swap to Glint until Jalis came back off cooldown… (or Mallyx/Embrace the Darkness if you needed boon stripping like in VG since back then there was only 1 chrono so it was the rev’s job.)
During that time in Glint, you could run Protection/Fury for the entire 10 seconds, and it would stack enough protection to last through your Jalis rotation for 100% Protection uptime without sacrificing NR or any dps. Just, nobody really cares about Protection in raids so it was generally better to save that extra energy in glint for breakbars and the at-the-time-not-nerfed Equilibrium procs.
As for crippling your might stacks, if all you do is upkeep Fury (as we often do in sPvP and WvW), you quickly jump to around 22 stacks of might if you’re running Shared Empowerment and Incensed Response. Although, that only comes to 6 for your teammates, so point taken.
But even if you could hypothetically put out every boon with 100% uptime, the biggest problem with Herald (in PvE) has always been that the only Herald boons that people care about are Might/Fury, and other classes can easily provide those while offering other unique buffs as well (banners, empower allies, spotter, spirits, grace of the land) AND in the case of a CPS or Condi Ele, easily out dps the Herald while doing so.
Now if they gave Herald a unique buff people cared about, it’d be right back in the meta… Something like, I dunno, making Natural Resonance increase Condi Duration as well as Boon Duration. Yeah, they should do that.
Now if we get a healer that can do respectable damage himself, then we’ll be cooking with gas and have a real druid replacement.
Let’s say that: druids do 2k damage, chronos do 6k damage, ps do 15k, dps do 20k (notice, in a respectable group the numbers can, and often are higher).
If your PS isn’t up there with your DPS, it’s time to find a new PS.
I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.
Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?
This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.
Here’s the thing… Looking for one character that can excel in all game aspects is tough in GW2. (I suppose Ele, Thief, and War do in the current PvP/WvW/PvE metascape, mesmer and guardian do to a degree too as long as your willing to fulfill very specialized roles.)
But having a “main” isn’t really what excelling in GW2 is all about. They made it SOOOO easy to multiclass by making leveling to 80 basically require no time or effort and by having ascended gear bind to account instead of character. It’s not like other MMORPG’s where you’re basically married to your one character and better pray they don’t get nerfed or else it’ll be months before you can be competitive in end-game again.
In fact, even if you do have your one character that excels in all game types, you STILL might have trouble finding groups… Some raid lfg’s only want multiclass, and you leave yourself no option to swap your class in soloque sPvP when you see that you have a terrible team composition.
I guess that’s a little off topic, so to answer your question, “No, don’t main Rev in PoF.”
I mean, all we can do is speculate, but Rev’s going to have a TERRIBLE time in sPvP now that boon corrupt/strip has been expanded and more viable condi specs have been added. At best Rev will be in-and-out of the raid meta from patch to patch—probably settling on niche roles in certain fights. And, for WvW, Rev will still be fine… There’s a lot more boon strip/corrupt out there now, but group resistance will always be wanted for large team fights and Renegade’s spirits might actually be pretty useful as Well-specs have always done pretty good in WvW.
Embrace the Darkness is too expensive with no benefit (in pip degen anyway), it costs 5 initial OK -7/s pip OK and then 1 torment every second……. Where the hell is the rest of my elite skill? If it mirrored all my conditions onto nearby enemies with each pulse THEN we have some kind of decent elite (again linking back to original concept).
The 10% stat increase alone gives Embrace one of the highest damage outputs of all the elites in the game… In PvE at least.
I mean, it’s no FGS, but still.
Although, they really need to get rid of its cast time so it has the same feel as all of the other upkeep skills.
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D) Just start a group in LFG “100 CM Semi Exp” and slowly work off the Semi…
nothing will change because most buffs are still for 5 ppl. the only thing that will happen is the dps slot will get expanded with more specs.
idk if renegade can pull off 100% alacrity uptime but assuming it does even then i dont think firebrand and renegade can replace chrono – cc, distorts. i dont think firebrand+renegade can outdps chrono+dps. we’ll see soon enough!
It would be more like Firebrand/Renegade vs. Chrono/Druid since a Rev would need Ventari to keep 100% Alacrity uptime, so they might as well spec heals. Even then you’re using 2 classes to do what a single chronomancer can and losing half your GotL uptime.
I suppose you’d be getting superior healing/projectile denial, but nobody really cares about that stuff.
It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you will never have that much energy to be able to maintain. Rite of the Great Dwarf costs 50 energy which renders it unuseable. Then 7 energy to maintain hammers. Just to do this for 5 seconds you will need start off with 60 energy and not use any weapon skills but auto attack.
There is a reason why Jails is not used in PvP.
The biggest reason being that once you see a Rev pop RotGD, you can effectively just ignore him since you know he’s not killing anybody with Jalis/Retribution.
I think the thing that most makes Renegade seem, well bad… Is how the entire feel of Renegade’s design and what it brings to the table seems to take a different approach to revenant balance and cater to a different group of people’s needs than has been the case before.
What I mean is Revenant, and all of its the skill balancing/nerfing, has been aimed at high end play. The dev’s have even said time and time again things like, “While it may not seem so at a casual level, Revenant’s are still overpowered in the right hands, and have always been a high risk/high reward class in terms of skill.” Almost making the players feel bad for not succeeding in spite of the nerfs. And, that’s fine… Balance should come from a top down level.
And if Revenant has been and is tailored around high end play and all of it’s core balance has been reflecting that, it seems insane that the new elite spec plays entirely to a different crowd.
Nobody at high end PvE or PvP was screaming for Revenant to get a ranged condi weapon. It’s literally, the last thing they needed considering every other useful thing a revenant does (aside from tableting) they do from melee range. There’s ONE raid encounter where you even need ranged damage (Deimos), and you don’t even technically need it there, that’s just for the safety strategy… There’s nothing stopping a competent rev from going hamm in mallyx/jalis with his mace like normal, since they can easily not stand in a giant orange circle. This is also the case in sPvP, high end rev’s don’t want to stand on a ledge shooting their bow into the group, and if they felt they needed to kite, Mallyx/mace/axe already gave them plenty of ranged condi pokes to do that with. (And probably even better ones.)
The whole thing feels like they took player’s feedback over the past year, and just decided to make Revenant cater to a more casual base? I’m half surprised they didn’t just make Kalla an underwater spec while they were at it…
At any rate, I feel like that’s why Renegade felt so out of place—it’s designed from an entirely different viewpoint than the core it was to accompany.
As for condi rev, its resistance will be corrupted into chill and otherwise ripped meaning they are essentially fodder. I am sure in high tier there are players who are skilled enough to get around these weaknesses (namely by relying on teammates to clear condis for them), but for the average gw2 player the class will probably not be viable.
Sadly I think this is going to be the case as Scourge/Spellbreaker (added onto the recent sigil rework) will make trying to use resistance—even with cover boons—an exercise in futility… And before you say, well don’t fight them then, condi herald’s whole strength is in team fights, and pretty much every game’s going to have a breaker and/or scourge in it…
I mean, Power Rev/Herald (Prolly Power Kalla too for some of the traits) will probably still be there for ganking/decapping… But I think it’ll be a lot less effective when joining the group fight as boons are going to not just be weaker, but be more of a liability in certain cases. Add to that a lot more viable condi specs like soul beast, holosmith, weaver, and mirage’s crazy condi output, and it’s going to be pretty rough playing our cleanseless class.
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I wish… And it’s almost believable with how unfinished everything looks (even graphically), cuz like, one month isn’t a real long time to get that much work done.
I mean, honestly, the only prof that seemed close to being sort of ready was Spellweaver, and anet has even said that was originally an idea for an HoT elite spec but they didn’t have the technology to finish it… So they’re been working on that one for years. As opposed to the maybe week and a half they spent on Renegade brain-storming?
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Temporary condition damage reduction doesn’t work in PvP… Especially the new Kalla heal aura that requires you to stand in one spot.
This is because you’ll just keep getting bombed with stacks and stacks of conditions and then when it ends, you’re instantly dead. This is why cleanse is so much more of a real answer—it resets the stacks to zero rather than temporarily reducing the damage while the stacks intensity continue to grow.
The reason Mallyx’s resistance (which you could argue is sort of the same thing since it doesn’t provide cleanse) works to a point, is because you don’t have to sacrifice so much of your offensive power building into it like you do with traited RoTGD. So you can actually kill the person during that window of damage reduction. Also, you can chain the resistance for much longer if you’re not spamming all your energy on BE or UYA if you have to go full bunker or something.
i’d like to add something, iv been reading most of the posts on renegade in pve, and i see alot of people saying the ’’summons’’ or ’’illusion’s’’ or whatever are strong in pve.
that might be true in openworld, in Raids/Fractals they might work in very certain scenarios/bosses. but otherwise they wont work that well and that’s including the over glorified elite. the reason for that is they’re easy to kill we don’t have a trait that increases their range/survivability like rangers do, so adds or even bosses might squish them but that remains to be seen, the second problem however is bigger.
any kind of cc will disable any effect the summons are giving out, an example to give is imagine using your elite summon and gorseval slams the ground, you and your group might of dodged but the summon is now cced and you’re draining energy and it’s not giving out the life drain/siphon anymore. meanwhile ranger spirits for example give out their buffs regardless of cc without energy costs.
This is true… I mean, we’ve only seen them in PvP, so maybe they’ll be immune to PvE damage? Because, ya, it’ll be pretty laughable when they all instantly die to a Seeker Orb, Gorse Tantrum, Flame Wall, Poison Aura, Sniper shots, Ghosts running through them, KC pizza slice cleave, Xera fields, Cairn’s kitten swipe, MO Floors, Sam Waves, and Deimos Slams. AKA: Every raid boss having something that will kill them instantly unless they don’t take damage from PvE sources.
I mean, I would assume they’d ignore this type of damage like Ranger pets and Engi Turrets, but then again anet always find new and creative ways to dump on revenants, so who knows.
In my opinion the bleeding should get replaced by torment, and it needs some chill or at least poison.
No..no..no…we need the bleeds from a pve standpoint to be more viable as torment is crap in raids really but on your other points, yea, ditto.
Since last patch torment does the same damage as bleeding vs stationary targets and spikes on mobile ones.
(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80 for Bleeding and Stationary Torment
(0.09 * Condition Damage) + 31.8 damage per stack per second at level 80 for Torment while moving.
It’s still early, but from what I saw, the big issue will continue to be alacrity + quickness. I didn’t see anything this past weekend that will supplant the chronomancer’s role in raids – meaning, most of the time, at least two raid spots will still be reserved for that profession.
Outside of that, Gotl alongside healing and strong ccs keeps at least one spot reserved for the druid.
For might stacking, there are a few potential contenders, but I doubt they will have the warrior’s efficacy – meaning 5 raid slots (2 chronos, 2 warriors/zerkers, at least one druid) will likely remain hard meta.
Looking at dps, we have to wait and see what the final balance numbers look like before we can start talking about potential replacements in the other 5 slots.
Likely means – at least in raids – if you play one of those core professions, you are probably stuck with the same skills and rotations for the foreseeable future – at least in meta groups.
I still contend that moving to a 10 player boon cap (at least in raids) would help alleviate some of this.
The thing is, they don’t want less players to be able to send out the same amount of boons. I mean, the SoI nerf is the reason we even have this dual class meta.
At least PS War’s can go spell breaker to mix things up as their dagger aa chain has might in it. Will it be more dps than CPS tho? Prolly not, but who knows.
I would say the only change in the 2/2/2 support team meta is maybe PS’s can go as spell breaker since their aa chain provides might and the extra critical damage in the breaker trait line might make power ps good again. And maybe—maaaaaaaaaaybe—1 druid/1 rev instead of 2 druids in a condi dps composition.
While a lot of classes got access to quickness, it’s not 100%, nor is it reliable enough to forgo 2 chronos… Plus alacrity.
I was running Kalla/Shiro for Menders build. It was very enjoyable to play. But condition builds feel lackluster a bit with Renegade.
Why menders with Shiro/Kalla? That Healing Power seems so wasted there… Or does it actually have real scaling with Kalla’s elite (unlike the horrible healing power scaling on every other life draining skill in the game?)
Since Menders is power/heal you maximize both damage and healing through the lifesteal effects. And yes, the elite has great scalling with healing power. When the elite is up, I steal 600hp per strike. So sword 2 heals for 1800hp, sword 3 heals for 3000hp; and this stacks with devestation lifesteal trait. Combine this with my shiro heal dealing more damage with the recent update, and the nice healing scalling. Shiro heal gives me 8khp, and I get I think about 10k from kalla heal, 5k of which is aoe and heals allies too.
Menders means that I can heal my allies when I need to, and that I can out-sustain the conditions being thrown on me, with the final grandmaster trait, hoelbrak runes, and the kalla heal, I’m very tanky. Best of all, all this damage immunity (spirit beasts and warriors) gets bypassed by lifesteal, so you can keep pressure up during that. A lot more than people realize.
The damage is lower than something like maurauders, but by focusing on sustain, you don’t have the same need to retreat from battle. You can stay in there a lot longer. Which lets you benefit more from kalla’s summons. And share them more with allies. Holosmiths heal up super fast if they have our elite up. I was able to save quite a few who were going ham without watching their hp. For now, there is no icd for the elite. That allows for all this to work.
Ah, that sounds like it’s gonna get fixed/nerfed. All other life steal skills scale off .02% of healing power. Good to know.
I was running Kalla/Shiro for Menders build. It was very enjoyable to play. But condition builds feel lackluster a bit with Renegade.
Why menders with Shiro/Kalla? That Healing Power seems so wasted there… Or does it actually have real scaling with Kalla’s elite (unlike the horrible healing power scaling on every other life draining skill in the game?)
You would drop devastation. It is only a nontrivial dps increase when you are put in a full power squad with people who have maxed out crit chance and optimal power. That condition leaves out the mesmer in the group (who must run non power gear to get sufficient boon duration), probably the druid who will either be full magis or running a condi set up, and yourself who is condi. that means AP is affecting 2 other people for maybe a 5% damage increase and everyone else probably gets less than a 2% boost out of it.
As far as the direct damage on mace being a major factor, I would need to see the data for that. In seems that a constant 20% modifier for your condition damage is going to out damage the conditional executioner style modifier of swift termination.
In order to start dropping things like assassins presence, you need to be able to do more dps than the other classes to justify your presence in the group. Sadly, Renegade does not come close to touching Holo, Weaver, or Mirage, in that area.
I’ve never fractaled on a CPS, but I bet any one with Afflicted is nightmare without a druid or chrono since you have zero self cleanse. I feel like most CPS’es probably don’t run Defense for Cleansing Ire, but you might wanna try it out? People probably wouldn’t care or even notice, so long as you’re cranking out 25 might stacks.
Anyone who gets mad in fractals is clearly not very good themselves… In my experience, at t4, you almost never see people rage out at others since they know that if they played perfectly themselves, they could solo carry the content. It’s the baddies who think they are good because they live on the qT/metabattle forums, but need to be carried themselves, that are the ones you see lose it in there. Good people just finish the boss, make fun of how bad their group is in their guild chat, and maybe quietly excuse themselves from doing the next daily with you.
As for the nerf, you should probably switch back to staff… I mean, all you have to do is get a staff, it’s not a huge gear investment. That’s always been one of the pro’s of FA Ele—you can easily swap between staff/dagger/scepter (well not scepter anymore, rip) depending on which is best for the fight. For example, even before the nerf, running Dagger vs Chaos’s last boss and his aoe dazes, or bloom hugger and his tantrums was a nightmare compared to staff or scepter. Plus, it’s much easier to stay alive camping staff anyways (superior range, extra cleansing, reflect aura, fiery escape, etc.)
In conclusion, just tough it out through t3 where the toxic baddies are, and get to t4 where everyone’s chill…! (For the most part)
Oh, and maybe start saving up for an ascended sword, cuz Spellweaver is cool as hell!
A few patches ago, Epidemic got reworked and has a special WvW version where it ignores inanimate objects, like walls, medkits, and siege in its targeting selection.
Now that this awesome technology is already in the game, can we please get the same ai applied to sword 2/3? It’s ridiculously annoying to be fighting (especially by a scout point), use Unrelenting Assault, and then see yourself teleport around doing zero damage around all the medkits placed at the camp. It’s not such a huge deal with Precision Strike, as you can at least skill shot that from inside your intended targets hit-box, but it could still be nice.
You’re forgetting the 20% increased damage on all outgoing condis from Kalla’s Fervor (traited).
It’s not going to be a straight 20% x 32k increase though…
In order to take Renegade, you’re going to have to drop Invocation and lose the 7% direct/condi damage and that sweet 20% crit spike. (Still probably an increase, but I wouldn’t underestimate how much extra torment that 20% crit generates—especially in Jalis.) I guess you could lose Devastation, but that’s not likely since the group ferocity buff is another reason you’re probably even there in the first place.
Also, it may be sort of surprising, but a majority of that 32k is direct damage from the mace’s high weapon dmg skill coefficients and Jalis hammer strikes.
People say it will be good in pve for basically two reasons. First is the condi damage modifier from Kalla’s Fervor. Traited it will get a 20% modifier on all out going condition damage which given that current Condi Rev already does 32k dps, it will be a sizable increase in a raid settings.
It’s not going to be a straight 20% x 32k increase though…
In order to take Renegade, you’re going to have to drop Invocation and lose the 7% direct/condi damage and that sweet 20% crit spike. (Still probably an increase, but I wouldn’t underestimate how much extra torment that 20% crit generates—especially in Jalis.) I guess you could lose Devastation, but that’s not likely since the group ferocity buff is another reason you’re probably even there in the first place.
Also, it may be sort of surprising, but a majority of that 32k is direct damage from the mace’s high weapon dmg skill coefficients and Jalis hammer strikes.
Although, I suppose bringing up Jalis is sort of a moot point since Renegade will probably replace Jalis as a stance. Razorclaw applies a realistic 35ish stacks of bleed, which probably is more damage output than hammers alone, not even counting the life steal and an opportunity to have the energy to sneak in orbital bombardment.
I dunno, but the OP is right… The damage renegade can do is nowhere near some of the other beast dps specs right now.
Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.
The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made
It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.
Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.The damage IS very good, but just not usuable outside of PvE. And same way as scrapper and spellbreaker are pvp especs, renegade is a pve one
It’s not even close to what the other elite specs can do to a golem right now.
Keep in mind that in pve and raids many times you don’t use your full weapon skill set. I hardly ever use sword 3 as cPS, not in the rotation so yea, still might be some hope for this and raids.
Sword 3 is a dps increase to your rotation once the boss reaches 50%…
Energy consumption with the new elite is ridiculous.
also,
The renegade seems to be way focused only to pve, this elite needs a lot of work yet. Smh I expected something better.
Except it’s damage is way too terrible to make an impact in PvE. I unloaded short bow 2, 3, 4, and Orbital Bombardment on a downed Spellthief and it took him from 80% to 20% bleed out when all the condi’s finished ticking. (I was using Viper’s Amulet).
This weekend bums me out so bad as I see they other classes rejoicing in their cool new stuff, and I got to dislocate my retinas rolling my eyes so hard at the renegade kit.
It has so many glaring weaknesses in it, I at least expected it to make up for them with super good damage or cool, desirable utility or something… But, alas, no—it’s purely an eye candy spec. Sadly, it feels like more time was put into making the animations and designing new skill shot stencils than actually thinking about or playing the class.
Thanks guys. I’ve got the cycling/clearing conditions down but it is the immobilize I’ve been having issues with. Especially facing rangers who seem to have an endless array of CC. I thought invoking a legend was the elite skill, didn’t realize I could legend swap (just returned to the game from a 2 year break).
Swapping legends won’t save you from immobilize unless it’s the only condition on you though, since it’s actually a condition that needs to be cleansed, not a CC that can be broken. I mean, TEEECCCHHNICALLLY legend swap also cleanses one condition, so it CAN get the immob, but that’s all up to RNGeebus.
That’s probably the biggest reason why Shiro is basically mandatory for WvW roaming… Without it you’re easy prey for all those roaming condi thieves and their gross immob spam. Even if you’re playing condi herald, you should probably run with Shiro on until you get to your group, then swap it out for Mallyx or Glint.
Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.
The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made
It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.
Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.
Literally every stance has a stun break + Invocation gives you a break on legend swap.
However, that doesn’t help with immobilize (if it’s covered with other condis) which is probably what you meant? If you’re playing condiherald like you said tho, Mallyx gives you plenty of access to resistance which will negate immob. If you’re stuck in Glint, you can Facet of Light or Block out the duration of it as immob doesn’t stop you from using skills.
I was like, “Renegade + Shiro and Devestation and Retribution?” THATS A STUPID DEFAULT. They I played a game as Mallyx/Renegade with Corruption/Invo and was like, "Oh, I see you’re just permanent immobilized and dead the entire time and do next to no damage even if you just unload everything from ranged.
Doesn’t help that every game is 3-4 war/thiefs enjoying their new specs on the other team, but still.
Looking to start a new full clear static group to run US Weekday’s in the late morning or early afternoon (exact day/time can be zero’ed in on based on everyone’s mutual availability.)
Basically, I’m just sick of every guild ever doing their raids immediately after daily reset and would like to get something started in the hours before reset for those of us with nothing to do in the middle of the day.
Reply with classes/availability/experience if interested or send me an in game mail…!