Guild Wars 2

jkctmc.8754:

As far as I knew xiv, like Xsorus are both Thieves, and Xsorus has already provided videos of him face rolling on his Thief, and feeling it is wrong. These guys are not approaching this as losing to a Thief a tired, old argument that does not help us out, but instead they’re approaching this as a Thief, and thinking what they are able to do is wrong.

If you’re having issues killing other classes and builds, I’m sure someone can help you out. Maybe these two can help you attain what they’re doing with the Thief?

Their arguments are all based on small skirmishes 1v1 scenarios, 2v2, etc. even xsorus who says he can 1v7 is trolling 1v7 he certainly isn’t killing 7 people in a 1v7.

Which me and a few other tried to point out isn’t what WvW is about. I don’t know don’t know a whole lot about guardians but I have seen guardians tank 10 people. Does that mean guardian is op cause he can tank 10 people and a engi can’t? No cause thats not how you should look at class balance.

Also claims that thieves break WvW is well silly. The problem with the people that play thieves that make claims of their OPness in actuality aren’t OP at all. Just cause you can run around trolling some people doesn’t mean your OP. If you kill someone unsuspecting or with cooldowns not up or someone that is just a bad player that doesn’t mean your OP.

Look at Xsorus video at the camp most people already picked it apart that alot of the people he downed where either upleveled or had no situational awareness. How can you claim that what you are doing is OP when you don’t know the skill level of your opponent? You don’t know what gear they are wearing? You don’t know what level they are just that they aren’t 80. You are running food buffs but they aren’t etc.

Is the sigil of bloodlust OP? If I am fighting a duel and I have 250 extra power and he isn’t running sigil of bloodlust same build same class am I more powerful than him absolutely in that context yes can he still beat me yup. 250 extra power is almost like having 2 power trait lines. Does that matter in WvW nope. In that little scenario to me and him it matters but in WvW it doesn’t thats why you can’t just balance of the scenarios presented in here.

TL&DR

There are so many factors in WvW environment that you can’t just say this class can do this but this class can’t need nerf. Everyone making statements to nerf thief pretty much all use this “If I was on my alt guardian he would have died” well if your guardian and your thief where the same class why would you need to make different class in the first place?

Example thanks for posting point proven

jkctmc.8754:

Can you link these videos of Rangers, Engineers, and Necromancers killing, or fighting as many people as Xsorus does in his video, for that length of time, and living, and/or scoring kills?

I’d love to see them.

can’t compare class vs class

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

Columba.9730:

anet specifically stated that stealth is not the primary mechanic for thieves. sorry. try again.

link? cause according to the profession description it says otherwise. I am sure someone from Anet wrote it.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Thief characterised by:

- Stealth
- Steal ability
- Evasion

That’s already 3 different mechanics, stealth is only part of what the thief does.

Also, it says nothing about dealing damage, so thieves should not deal damage. Reduce thief damage by 80%.

So you can see that quoting the class description is pointless. It’s not a proper argument in a debate on class and ability balance.

Some of the highest single target damage available is in the blog post. I can grab that quote if you like.

The class description isn’t pointless at all because that is the intent of the class.

When someone sits down to design a new car you don’t think they sit down and draw up what they want they vehicle to be capable of? They don’t decide if they want it to be a 4 seater? How what luxuries it has etc. Then they go to the press to try to create the product that they envisioned.

You do that with anything it’s prior planning. That is basically the mission statement for the thief what role it is suppose to be capable of filling in the game. Builds then are made by the players usually having to revolve around those.

Columba.9730:

anet specifically stated that stealth is not the primary mechanic for thieves. sorry. try again.

link? cause according to the profession description it says otherwise. I am sure someone from Anet wrote it.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

All that pretty much describes a thief to me. Now someone will grab one from another profession and thats all great maybe that profession isn’t at the vision of the designers but for the thief that describes it perfectly.

Look at the pages for the professions you play they all have special skills as in skills they you know “specialize in” I didn’t see thieves guild described as pets on the thief page. I don’t see clones described as minions.

Wells
These persistent, stationary spells allow necromancers to control the area around them. Well of Blood, for example, regenerates all allies within range.

Are my caltrops wells? Is my chaos storm a well it stays on the ground for a little bit right? My choking gas that a well too? Traps are wells I suppose.

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

This is why you your statements hold no weight. You can’t seriously think you add anything to a debate about any topic when you say you don’t care about a major part of the game that shows your ignorance.

All you care about is the part of guild wars 2 that concerns you so there for you want balance or anything else to do with the game to revolve around your needs even if it happens at the expense of others. You probably think everyone that has a thief character only plays sPvP and WvW.

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

A part. Stealth isn’t the whole class mechanic. Just like fear isn’t the whole class mechanic of the necro which is also about conditions, minions, DS, etc, and clones aren’t the whole class mechanic of the mesmer which is also about shatters, confusion, stealth, ethereal fields etc – all depending how you trait. So it goes with thieves and stealth.

A necessary toning down of stealth will not destroy the class.

Again a vacuum comparison the way clones for a mesmer works is totally different than DS or Steal or pets. It doesn’t work like Ranger X ability = Mesmer X ability. Its more like Ranger has abilities X,Y,Z and Mesmer has A,B,C. A might have similarities to X but they don’t serve the same purpose for that class.

It is apart of the class mechanic I agree and its a major part of it. Just like Clones are a major part of mesmers class mechanic. Everything revolves around the clones for a mesmer but that is how a mesmer works.

Everything for a thief doesn’t revolve around steal. You can trait it to do certain things but you can’t compare a full traited 35 sec F1 skill to the F1-F4 skill of a mesmer each with there own seperate cooldowns.

It is common for a mesmer to go 30 points into illusions it is uncommon for a thief to go 30 points into trickery.

If you traited for all the steal traits you would be 30 points in trick, 10 in Deadly arts, 20 in acro, and you would end up with damage, vigor, fury, swiftness, 1 stack of might, and possibility of stealing 2 boons, and apply poison every 30 secs. You also would get 2 secs of stealth on steal but mugged breaks stealth since it does damage. So that would be useless. You can’t compare that to a mesmer F1-F4 skills straight up and I am not saying that a mesmers F1-f4 skills are better than a thieves. They just are what they are designed to be.

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

I notice no difference in or out of combat seems the same as before the patch(giving the correct speed bonus)

I just hopped back in game just to test it to make sure I missed something but the speed boost is definitely still there in and out of combat.

Columba.9730:

My 4 bullets recapitulated the line of argument from the thief apologists, not my beliefs. Secondly, since anet’s prioririty is Spvp, and they’ve nerfed thief dps in Spvp, that t elks me that thieves in WvWvW are likely imbalanced as well.

Why would it tell you that at all? sPvP doesn’t equal WvW when was the last time you looked at the sPvP forums to get a clue? lol.

Ok so they nerfed thieves in sPvP but not as much in WvW (50% damage reduction to dancing dagger but still got a 10% damage increase to tactical strike and the daze on tactical strike wasn’t touched at all in WvW) and that tells you that thieves are likely imbalanced? I don’t even know what to say to that lol.

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

So your post here opens with the highly imbalance of stealth and then you make 4 bullet points about what you feel is a “highly imbalanced mechanic”.

Then you make a reference to thieves dps being nerfed in sPvP. Something just doesn’t hang together.

Also @xsorus

I just looked at the change to guard that you spoke of in the patch notes.

I don’t know alot about rangers but my guess they made that change because rangers could kill siege on top of keeps with their pets using guard.

That change has more to do with killing siege solo than killing players. Which tells me they don’t want the objectives that nobody cares about(as you stated) to be destroyed by a lone ranger.

I love Kome guild. I always go in the morning (my time) to eternal just north of CD’s spawn about the time they are trying to get stonemist back right by the Vet Oakheart area to find the Female Mesmer with Anomly and Whisperblade and the Short haired female d/d ele with the Quaggan Backpack and whoever else is with them usually around SM or the Ogre camp! Its routine.

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

No l2 read one of the ways you get World XP is by killing people. You don’t get points. (guess your gonna flip that part and say points on your WorldXP bar is what you meant lol)

You get abilities like do more damage to NPC, take less damage from siege, take less damage from NPC, do more damage from siege. Since you find fun in roaming around killing people none of this means jack to you cause your not about to man siege right? Thats zerging and xsorus doesn’t do zerging neither do other people that play WvW.

So you will be roaming around with a title that says Siegemaster, or NPC Killa and John the Mesmer who zergs it up daily will probably have the same title as you. So nobody is gonna know if you or John the Mesmer is the leet roamer!

The difference is John the Mesmer will be doing more damage on the the arrow cart killing people and having fun, probably be asked specifically to get on the arrow cart since he does more damage heck he might even feel wanted or needed more. You will be roaming around having fun with a title not doing more damage on a arrow cart. You can always make a video of you roaming though for views. I’ll go subscribe to your youtube now k.

Kills = points rofl. That was a good one made me chuckle. Comprehension skills are in full display in this thread.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

So you agree what Most doesn’t imply all, Yet you still continue to argue that Class balance doesn’t matter in World vs World because its all about “points” and nothing else

Interesting idea you got there

grin

What does the definition of most have to do with any my posts about stealth or thieves? Your all over the place rofl.

You can’t take a post and then apply it to another post without seeing the context of that post you do this alot.

Lets continue though..

I have never said class balance doesn’t matter in WvW not once have I said that. I said class balance doesn’t matter in the scenarios presented in this thread. Your video with the camp (doesn’t matter) for example.

If WvW was all about just fighting players as you believe most players care about then you would have some valid arguments. That is not what the goal of the game mode is. No matter how many ways you slice the bread.

My point is simple that maybe the classes are balanced how Anet thinks they should be in the WvW setting. That is the side of the fence that I am on. I know what WvW is I may not play the goals or build trebs or zerg all the time but I still know what the goal of the game mode is. It doesn’t matter what you think it is or your assumption that the player base only cares about killing people. The intent of WvW is objectives and points.

Basically the scenarios presented in here would be like someone coming on the sPvP forums saying that something is broken cause they went into HoTM to duel a bunch of people and lost everytime to thieves when they 1v1 lol.

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

Xsorus.2507:

They found a fight fairly quickly…as they were murdering their way up through the ranks.

however the reason they left SBI had zero to do with World vs World matches

They left cause they didn’t like the cheating that was happening.

Huh?!? Don’t those contradict each other?

They must have left cause they didn’t like people cheating and skipping mobs in CoF? People using orbs of power in Twilight Arbor? Spying during dungeon runs? This is unprecedented news those crazy PvE players!!!

They didn’t leave SBI cause of cheating in World vs World matches according to you. Yea totally seperate.

This is hilarious lol continue please

Xsorus.2507:

you’re trying to do apples and oranges again.

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

my reply

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Your not reading again

Barney style: Killmandro says the large/best known guilds transfer for those fights.

I respond with an example of War Machine transferring to Kaineng not because they are looking for fights.

Looks like apples and apples to me.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

Elementalist have received multiple nerfs, Hell some this patch.

So have Thieves…

I also pointed out Rangers received a Nerf this patch based entirely on World Vs World (Unless you think Guard was nerfed because of SPvP)

Yea I know sherlock thats why I said thieves haven’t been nerfed in 5 months. Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard.

Haven’t been nerfed hard does not equal never been nerfed lol.

Xsorus.2507:

War Machine obviously left for that server because they thought the World vs World match would matter more boggle

Yea they obviously didn’t move just to find fights like killmandro suggested

Oh thats what you got from that post. I got that they moved cause they didn’t like the underhanded tactics being used in tier 1. Jang must have made a mistake in his post probably a typo.

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Jang Gun

I am War Machine’s GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers’ guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, “if you play dirty, I will react the same way.” Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven’t been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don’t want to play dirty. We don’t want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

Xsorus.2507:

The whole notion that Class Balance shouldn’t be a concern in a point based PvP system is also frankly the dumbest thing i’ve heard in my entire 15 years of MMO gaming.

Not everyone is playing World vs World for the point based system, As soon as you get that into that thick head of yours, the better off you will be.

I repeat, Not everyone cares what tier you are, Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players…Because all the hype around the best server went away last year.

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

I have already stated before that I know people play WvW how they want and I do the same. That doesn’t change the fact of what WvW is about does it? Not in the slightest.

I beg to differ about people not caring about WvW you think everyone thinks like you which is why your arguments don’t hold any weight. I am voicing my opinion but I know other people don’t feel the same as I do. I also am not diluted into thinking that most people playing WvW think its some free for all Call of Duty death match.

The first page of WvW has 27 topics on it

This thread has 325 replies right now.

There are 3 other threads with more replies on the first page than this one. The threads that usually have the most replies are the matchup threads. Tier 6, tier 4, tier 2 have the most views in it. BG, Kain, TC has over 1000 replies in it alone.

Please point me to a matchup thread that doesn’t have a score update in it or someone asking for a score update and I’ll concede that people don’t care about points in WvW or WvW itself.

This is not some big issue that you think it is cause most people and Anet get it. WvW is about points and server vs server not about your fantasy Deathmatch balance.

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

What are you talking about referring to what I bolded in your quote . Get some context please.

Someone said they had trouble fighting D/D elementalists they rely on melee. Right under that post xsorus says D/D elementalists aren’t hard to kill on his thief “Switch to venoms”

Why would a melee thief “switch to venoms” lol. You have to read the posts first before getting all excited and responding come on man. You gotta do better than that.

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry.

Right keep believing that lol. . I quickly hopped on skype so someone can tell me about venoms rofl!

Ill have that person call you so he can explain it to you too since you obviously don’t know.

killimandros.5087:

lol you didnt know you can switch to venoms on the run? I suddenly understand why you dont want culling/stealth bug abuse to be fixed….you know, you switch BACK.
Down under, another pro-hero, who doesnt know how to swich abilities on the run. Well done sir, well done.

So sad this post is, but continue to show you lack of knowledge about a thief you and xsorus. Your caps indicate that your post was written quickly and you were excited to jump all over my response thats how I view it and its a good laugh.

I was being sarcastic but I’ll school you on something you could easily search before coming to save your friend who pretty much showed how deep his knowledge of a thief is or he didn’t read at all and replied quickly (hope its the latter)

1) You don’t need any trait to run venoms the cd reduction trait is 20 points into DA. Venoms are a utility.

2) If your running a burst thief build why would you run venoms? At best you would run devourer for the immobilize even still why would you take the cd reduction on 1 venom in a burst build? I am sure you don’t know so you don’t have to bother answering.

Not every thief is running P/D condition spec like xsorus is in his video. Sorry to disappoint you. I use to run it and pretty much know it inside and out. Most people aren’t even running venoms on P/D anyway to begin.

I also didn’t imply that you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 but you sure aren’t going to “switch to venom” running s/d and d/p thats you know dumb!

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

My point is arguing that a Thief who’s running around stealth killing people can’t contribute is silly.

If I come across an undefended keep on my thief I can easily take it, Just like Warcamps..

Pretty much all classes can do that I’m pretty sure with little trouble.

Difference of course being if i’m attacked on my thief i’ll escape while the other classes will probably die.

I never said that you aren’t contributing what I said is that you running around killing people has a small effect on the overall game mode that is WvW.

Your video example didn’t show anything that upset the balance of WvW. Your trolling of those people that took the camp didn’t do anything they still took the camp.

You solo’d a keep I don’t understand what so upsetting to WvW balance in that video either. I still don’t see any good arguments that any of this throws the balance of WvW off in the slightest.

Maybe that is why elementalists didn’t get huge nerfs in WvW and thieves didn’t get nerfed (5 months running) because all these complaints people are making aren’t game breaking. Its not like all the servers in Tier 1 have more thieves and elementalists than the servers below them. If that was the case then I can get behind the complaints but that isn’t why they are in Tier 1.

Most of the these complaints could be valid if it was 5v5 or 3v3 or a duel. Its not any of those things. You could have solo’d on another class the keep and probably more likely to die on another class but the same could have been said about a glass cannon thief. Whats he gonna do go respec to condition and then solo. You also said you got inside because of a hole in the wall that a treb made lol. How does this even prove anything about a thief and or stealth.

Respec your thief to damage with 13-17k hp or whatever you like and lets say 15 points in trick then show me you solo a keep. That is why someone above said 30/30/30/30/30 thief spec. A condition thief has a much easier time soloing a keep than a burst damage thief you should know that.

If you got inside by a hole in the wall that a treb made you didn’t need stealth anyway. I am sure I can find a video of another class soloing a keep that had a big hole in the wall.

Lol this thread is about Pistol whip food build and the anti thief anti stealth people come in here and turn it into a stealth discussion lol.

Straght up D/P and S/D for me. I run Shortbow with condition build since the choking gas is lovely.

I also see alot of thieves not running SB lately.

What needs to happen is decrease the size of the WvW maps so that classes that are about to die can’t run away.

If your going to duel a ele then a imaginary ring should appear that is 900 × 900 units. If the elementalist leaves that ring he dies and you win automatically same with a thief.

Make a fight button so that when you press it you get a stage select and a also a character select screen. If your server is winning in points you get to select the stage(size of the ring) first. The winner of these small skirmishes gives points to their servers side. Thus making all of these arguments completely relevant when it comes to class vs class balance in WvW.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

Obviously its not this guy gets it.

Xsorus.2507:

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

You are missing the point I don’t know how to frame it any better for you. I wish you wouldn’t cherry pick to counter argue but anyway.

The point is this WvW is about PPT and Score.

You can do whatever you feel like doing in WvW. You can afk in the jumping puzzle. You can man cannons all day. You can go to the vistas and not fight a single person you can play however you want. I am not denouncing that I do it all the time.

However you play doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and Score and Objectives. Going around killing people just to kill them is fun it doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and SCORE. Killing people just to kill people has a slight effect on PPT and SCORE but it is minimal That is the point that I am making.

See if you can understand this one. A keep is about to be attacked by 10 people and there are 2 people on cannons. Those 2 people hold off the 10 people from taking the keep they did more for towards what the goal of wvw is than you and a thief buddy did by fighting 5 random people around the map.

Just because you can troll 8 people doesnt change the fact that WvW is about score. I don’t understand whats hard to grasp about what I am saying. Therefore trolling the people you did in the video while its fun doesn’t affect the outcome of the game mode your playing therefore it is in essence insignificant, as in it doesn’t matter, as in it’s just for bragging rights or whatever you want to get out of it. How is something that doesnt make your server win or lose overpowered? WvW isn’t arena

Also PPT is always relevant regardless if you are winning by 50 or 300 if you know how the glicko2 system works.

The group you fought wanted the camp even though they were losing, you wanted to kill people just to kill people. So it was win win for everyone. They still got the camp and you killed a few people.

Stealth is not breaking WvW, thieves aren’t breaking WvW. If your idea of WvW is that its a big free for all multiplayer Call of Duty style deathmatch then more power to you and in that alternate reality then you probably have very valid arguments that thieves are OP and stealth is broken.

Guild Wars 2 WvW is not a free for all deathmatch, with kill cams for scoring the highest kills so everyone can see how leet you are. You can play it that way if you want but that doesn’t make it a deathmatch!

killimandros.5087:

well, normally the forum base gives a pretty good indication to what the players in general are concerned about. In any of the videos posted of thieves killing tons of people, the response from 95% of the thievces is those players are baddies. Am I right? All players in said movies are bad, bad, bad and unskilled. Dont you see the shallowness in that? Why arent people complaining to the same degree to other classes? If there are so many complaint posts about the same topic, are you gonna dismiss ALL of them as bad players who doesnt know kitten about the game? lol… seriously, Xsorus is one of the better players I know about, I love how he moves his ranger, still hes complaining, and Id put him into the 5% player base. That 5% consists of, according to you, 99% thieves. The rest of the players are just bad, right? They shouldnt be allowed to play hehe. I find myself playing my thief more and more when I roam alone, because I can basically get away from anything, anytime anywhere if I dont get the kill.

It just is what it is ask yourself is xsorus going to come on a thread that he agrees with and post a video of him dying while trying to troll 5+ people? I highly doubt it. I am sure he has died before.

Nobody said he was a bad player I can tell he knows his stuff in the video what is bad is the players he is killing how they stand in caltrops, etc that was pointed out.

Some videos the people killed aren’t very good players. Thats a whole different discussion but if you look at montage type videos for GW2 most of the time people say the people you killed weren’t very good. If you kill people with green arrows then people will tell you that your opponents weren’t very good.

Just look up wild bill’s videos 1-4 people said he fought underleved so he started pointing out in the rest of his videos that they weren’t low level players. Its a dumb argument cause I bet everyone attacks everything most of the time. I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway.

I could make a video of me dying vs more than 1 person but what would it prove? Nothing that I died to more than 1 person.

Ask yourself this if I posted a video of me vs more than 1 person is that going to make you change your mind and say oh hey stealth is fine look this thief died trying to fight more than 1 person or this thief died trying to troll?

I bet the answer is no thats why posting videos of you trolling as a thief are useless because I am sure you could have posted videos of you attempting the same and dying but those don’t get posted I wonder why o.O.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

A. Look at the score and realize we have close to 50k More points currently then second place. Every night my side runs over the other two servers in this matchup. I frankly don’t like zerging, I esp don’t like over doing it to the point of saying “Hey friends, come from the red side of the map where you’re currently taking everything down to blue to help defend this one camp from a bunch of people who are taking back all the stuff we ALREADY TOOK 1 HOUR AGO” …I might understand if it was a close match up, and that might be a big deal..However it’s not…It’s not remotely close what so ever…So your deflection is pitiful.

B. if I was on a D/D ele, yes I would of probably been dead in 3 minutes..I can kill a D/D ele on my Ranger 1v1, hell I can absolutely gut one on my Thief….Same with Guardian and Mesmer (They both would of died just as quickly as well) The Ele could run away though….But just sitting there harassing people over and over again….not really. Most of the Ele videos you see are them hauling kitten away from the zerg that’s chasing them, and fighting people along the way..most of the videos you see aren’t them fighting in the same spot for 8 minutes.

Wait what?

A) So there was no point at all you effectively did nothing. I am not deflecting anything at all. You just had to type a simple hey anyone close by danelons come to help defend. You probably only need like 4 people to help you hold that off with hylek support and the npcs. Come on you gotta do better than that.

Your counter is I don’t like zerging so I don’t ask for anyone close by to come help me defend danelons? You can you know press 4.

Its not a deflection if the point of WvW is winning if you are going to win the matchup and it doesn’t matter to you about defending anything and you just like to roam around and kill people then your contribution is minimal and you just like to play wvw to fight people I guess.

Nothing wrong with that hey play your way but don’t think its some significant event if you kill 4 upleveled players for objectives you claim your server doesn’t care about because your already winning.

Thats not deflection thats just what it is WvW goal is winning by objectives thats the mode your in. You aren’t forced to do any of those things at all but if your in the back of the windmill dueling your just as effective as your video and thats just what it is. It doesn’t matter at all.

Also all you did was post a video saying hey look this is me on my thief abusing stealth. Yea thats alot to go on. If I said no your not abusing stealth but bleeds I guess that is deflecting in your eyes. Its not like you gave much substance to your point and video to begin with. lol

DanH.5879:

the fun thing is that thieves can’t C&D of mobs (stealth for that matter) to reset their health, a good nerf to the wvw thieves
resetting abuse is gone ?, this is why they complain so much, because the cheating era came to an end ?
to me, it is the only patch i agree it is ok, i am not afraid to use SR to stealth all my party during boss encounters (1 dead, 4 ressing him/her)

News at 11 post made to say I told you so but I was wrong.

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

Wreckdum we have mutual friend in Jackie from my server so its no ill will at all just difference of opinion.

From my perspective I look at it as WvW and by holding up your group (or what I assumed I was doing) I felt I did my part. When I hold up 4-5 people I always think why don’t they just leave and go get a camp. You can’t use team fight for WvW because that’s not what WvW is about its about objectives. A thief is better served in distraction etc than he is on top of a keep trying to defend. You can do both jump down 100bs a group maybe down them and go back inside at the same time you could pull out your rifle and do really good damage defending.

I am not saying a thief SB is terrible I love shortbow but I would rather have a Warrior up top pumping the rifle and a thief down below confusing and distracting the enemy than have them both up top.

The way I see it using your video of me is my goal was to distract your group while we took anzalaz I felt that I did what I set out to do. What was the goal of your group at the time? I didn’t kill any of you at all so the way I see it is if your group wasn’t planning to go take an objective as you say then and I didn’t in fact distract you guys.

The same thing could have been accomplished if we all played costume brawl right outside of spawn nothing! No ppt was affected at all then.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

That was me I just trolled your group you got killed by another thief. I wasn’t actually trying to kill any of you just trolling.

The jumping around is what people do all the time to annoy another person to try to make them fight thats what I was doing there. Notice how the person there said all I could do is stealth but that is pretty much all I could do with arrow carts and 4-5 of you.

I remember the reason I attempted to distract you guys was because we were getting attacked at Anz or about to take it so I went to go and try to distract some reinforcements.

Instead you guys waited around to try and kill me. I’m sorry but honestly you could have left and did something else like the other people that eventually left. I couldn’t have stopped you.

Archer.1658:

Thief profession is ez mode if you just want to own while being lazy, and non-interactive. Spam 1 and 5 or spam 2 and 5. Oh Im low on health? Stack stealth with black powder + hs or shadows refuge or blinding powder or my heal move. Oh Im still low after that? shadowstep and shortbow away. Wait a second..this can’t be true, I coulda swore people who used thiefs were skilled!

Hahaha!!

Hey everybody Spam 1 and 5 for kills lol

Running D/P time to go kill spamming 2 and 5 cause using heartseeker on a person above 50% health is effective!!! Lets go spam everyone lol…

Nobody took your post seriously cause you obviously don’t know anything about how a thief works.

Daecollo.9578:

oZii.2864:

Galandil.9641:

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Uhh I am saying that I don’t see how a food buff makes or breaks a build. If anything a 0/0/30/20/20 condi spec needs pizza more than PW and omnomberries. You can’t get to +75% bleed duration without pizza you can get to 6 secs but I rather have 7 secs.

Sigil of fire and sigil of air are around 10% and 14% more damage respectively. If they removed sigil of fire and air from the game would that totally crush all burst builds? I am sure people would still run burst.

Same with butternut squash curry, maintenance oils etc. They allow you to be more flexible in your stat and armor selection but I can’t see someone basing a build on butternut squash curry. If they didn’t exist then people would just add a bit more crit chance to their build. Sigil of accuracy would become more popular etc.

Yeah, I don’t think I even need to say anything else, your post alone is self explanatory to my argument.

Are you sure you don’t mean “Death Blossom?”

Pistol Whip is a Power Move, its useless in condition builds.

What? rofl No I don’t mean pistol whip I understand what you are trying to argue here. What I am saying is that if there is any thief build that you could say suffers the most from not having food would be a P/D build using traits 0/0/30/20/20. Is that much clearer than my other post?

The point still stands though that a build shouldn’t be killed cause of food and your basically sayiing that the builds are killed because of food I said I would rather have curry than omnomberry ghost.

Galandil.9641:

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Uhh I am saying that I don’t see how a food buff makes or breaks a build. If anything a 0/0/30/20/20 condi spec needs pizza more than PW and omnomberries. You can’t get to +75% bleed duration without pizza you can get to 6 secs but I rather have 7 secs.

Sigil of fire and sigil of air are around 10% and 14% more damage respectively. If they removed sigil of fire and air from the game would that totally crush all burst builds? I am sure people would still run burst.

Same with butternut squash curry, maintenance oils etc. They allow you to be more flexible in your stat and armor selection but I can’t see someone basing a build on butternut squash curry. If they didn’t exist then people would just add a bit more crit chance to their build. Sigil of accuracy would become more popular etc.

vespers.1759:

LOCO.1785:

vespers.1759:

thieves got a buff. i almost can’t believe it (i’m lying i totally believe it after seeing anet employees rocking thief in wvwvw)

i guess we should all just bail and turn wvwv into tvt.

Because thieves got a slight buff to one of the healing skills no one uses?

Yeah, definite call to all roll thieves.

/sarcasm

the point is thieves needed a vast nerf and they got buffed instead regardless of how small the buff was (it also wasn’t just the healing).

if you don’t think thieves own wvwvw you’re living in a fantasy land.

If you expected thieves to get a nerf then your living in a fantasy world. Everyone that has been playing a thief for a while and follows patch notes knows that its more likely we get buffs instead of nerfs. Thieves havent been nerfed in almost 5 months wake up! Its always good to hold on to hope though I admire it lol.

Rofl I was reading this on my phone just now cracking up. Daecollo sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t on things you say. This one I don’t understand at all.

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

Ill take butternut squash over omnom ghost anyday

Brassnautilus.2941:

hell fellow thieves, did we dodge a bullet?
oo snap, new build again….

No bullets dodged at all. Anyone that does a bit of research will see that the last time thieves got nerfed was november 15th (mostly in PvP) We have had several patches since then each with minor buffs each time. The people that aren’t doing any looking at all don’t realize that the thief isn’t going to get nerfed anymore they might as well give it up. I do enjoy reading the funny suggestions though.

Rayya.2591:

i would troll them to death.I would spec 100% against thieves and start troll them
Any clas got an specific build to troll thieves

See bunker elementalist, bunker guardians,

Laika.8795:

Daecollo.9578:

Should be a ranger trait then, deals with animals and stuff, that way whenever you OR your pet fart it cures a condition.

No way, Rangers are totally OP already. They can use birds to track thieves in stealth, and continue hitting them throughout stealth for big numbers… If they can do that, and stealth is OP and ANet has to rework the entire class.

Nah man Rangers are the worse class in the game absolutely terrible. Ask any thief that has fought a competent trap ranger how easy they are to kill o.O.

treyalsup.4627:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Thieves only get revealed when attacking in stealth. If they don’t, they can just Cloak and Dagger constantly giving off ‘perma stealth’ but in fact, they aren’t attacking you what so ever. When they burst you, that’s when you snare, immbo and wreck them. If they cloak while immbo or snared, just hit in place because most likely they are still stuck there. If he just cloaks around, just capture a point or whatever and ignore him. If you have allies how lay out conditions, put as many as you can if he’s ‘revealed’. But make sure he made an attack first. If it’s just 1 thief, I doubt it’s culling.

I doubt its culling too, but it does seem in WvW moreso than sPvP that a thief can open on you from stealth and you still don’t see them for a longer period of time, even if it is a smaller engagement.

Also, Snaring/Immobilizing and attacking the spot wasn’t “wrecking” him. I assure you I’m familiar with the concept of attacking where the stealther is supposed to be. It just wasn’t very effective, even when “right”.

If the best we can do is “ignore” the thief and he can control when and where he engages and disengages, thats a problem. What was supposed to be the counter to stealth? Shadowbane had tracking. WoW (only payed vanilla) had hunter’s mark. GW1 didn’t have stealth.

It’s just a very problematic mechanic that’s hard to balance, that sadly has become a staple of the genre.

Its the way the thief is designed the class is suppose to have the choice of when to engage and disengage a fight. Its in the class balance philosophy blog they posted in like december.

Executioner trait > Hidden Assassin in most cases people take executioner instead of hidden.

You can’t compare classes like that this class has this and this doesn’t

As someone else said can I get a thief everytime I dodge?

Yup that sounds about right. Rofl @ free slots effecting your research thats a good one.

Yea watch out for the big house that is really obvious.

3 is wrong it should be don’t stand there in one spot like frye waiting to get attacked. Just keep going about your business. If the thief wants to try to kill you he is going to blow some sort of cooldown to burst you then put your protection up. When you see him get close cause he only has 1 heal 1 shadow refuge and 1 blinding powder. If he blows all of those to chase you down and his initiative then your good to go. Don’t do like some people and just stand around just keep going about your business pop some swiftness the thief has to use resources to catch you.

killimandros.5087:

oZii.2864:

Its obvious from your suggestion that you want stealth removed. Yea adjust stealth timers and reduce stealth timers. Or just have the mesmer in your zerg run mass invis maybe? I am sure there is a mesmer in every zerg. Its not like Red server has access to mass invis but blue and green don’t. Everyone is affected by culling so while it sucks its not like 1 server doesn’t get culling and the other doesn’t.

Just make the argument to fix culling instead of trying to adjust class abilities for a bug that everyone gets.

Oh its obvious I want stealth removed, hehe. You read my post, have a cookie. Btw, did you really complain about rangers birds? hm. But, that was my personal opinion, yes I play a thief and yes Id like stealth removed until culling is fixed. I also suggested as a more moderate approach to reduce stealth timers and make stealth break on damage (so you can actually see the warrior getting ready to charge or 10k blade you and respond by dodging). I know by your posts you dont want changes to stealth, so we can agree to disagree. I also said I have both been on the receiving and giving end of culling abuse.

I didn’t complain about rangers birds I just said I hate it as in dislike it. Doesn’t mean I want it nerfed lol. Yea I read your post and stated that it was obvious. Would it have been better if I didn’t read it and jumped way off topic with something you didn’t address? Anyways.

Its not that I am for or against changes to stealth it’s the suggestion proposed are all frankly terrible. I simply am fine with how it is I also highly doubt they will do any of these suggestions for stealth. Breaking stealth on damage? Really thats not thought through at all.

Its not like stealth is the only reason for culling. I have been killed plenty of times by just a large zerg that renders late I am sure many people have. Stealth is affected by culling but its not the cause of it.

Like I said if your mesmers aren’t rolling with mass invis when they are in a zerg then thats on them. You should get new mesmers.

You say you want to see the warrior that is doing the 100bs on you and make stealth break on damage (which in effect also effects thieves, and engis, and rangers who all have a form of stealth) if a 100bs warrior is under mass invis he can close on you pretty quickly. So you run some AOE build or class and your at the advantage what about builds focused on single target damage with little access to AOE’s how am I suppose to break stealth if I’m running that.

If I am a engi or ranger traited to go invis when I am CC’d I might as well not run that anymore totally useless if I find myself against a necro, or staff ele or anyone with AOE. Let me pop decoy on my mesmer totaly useless now. All because of culling? Really? Just fix culling argue about culing what you are arguing is a round about way to basically get what you want to were stealth is totally not viable at all.