Guild Wars 2

Its kind of niche you can use it to secure a stomp or a actual blind to prevent getting hit. I think its main purpose is gap closer,creator the blind is just something thrown on top. Maybe I little increase in the radius for the blind would make it more useful for that purpose but I think the blind is just a icing on the cake type of thing.

Aeneasx.1589:

earendil.1290:

Aeneasx.1589:

So they completely and entirely, in every way shape and form, changed their entire mantra from Guild Wars 1, in that skill trumps everything. Without an organized group of skilled people in GW1, and a large amount of skill on your part, you were fodder.

Gotcha.

EDIT: Large numbers should have the advantage of just that, large numbers. Not these kitten mechanics that just build on themselves to give an arm less blind guy the ability to compete.

Maybe you were sarcastic (dunno my sarcasm detector is broken) but you are actually 100% right. This WvW is completely different than what GvG was. Just like the PvE part is completely different than what it used to be in GW1. It’s all based on “inclusiveness” – everyone is allowed to experience every part of the game and feel at the same level as the others. It is their new mantra indeed.

They do want that “arm less blind guy”, the level 10 PvEr who just joined the game a week ago, to go in WvW and be capable of killing the l80 hardcore PvPer (using the numbers or siege). Tell me it’s not like this.

Maybe they will introduce something similar to the GvG later, under the sPvP model. Hopefully.

It really sucks then that they are ignoring their some of their longest running players then. PvErs will buy their expansions to see content. Who cares about them in PvP.

PvPers will buy the expansion if they are ok with the current state of the game or like the game in general.

Statements like who cares about them in PvP is why if you made a game it wouldn’t last long.

Guild wars 2 is designed inclusive like the other poster said. If you take a step back for a second and look at the game as a whole what is trying to accomplish is a environment were everyone can participate in everything that is good from a business standpoint.

That is why wvw has skill points and is apart of map completion etc. When john the PvE is going for his map competition or maybe he is just a completion type person he ventures into wvw. His end game goal is a legendary he has done everything else in pve like say he is leve 50 fractals or whatever. He goes into wvw to finish his legendary does a few fights meets a few people and discovers crap. This is alot of fun his interest is renewed and now he goes through a long process of discovering the things about WvW that he didnt know about. Trying new builds etc all the stuff we are doing but he is 6 months late but if his interest is occupied for 6 months then that is good for business.

They aren’t ignoring hardcore pvpers who wvw you just have to give time. The core of what pvpers want is there fighting other people. Progression is coming its just not instant. You only have to wait at most 3 weeks or whenever this new patch hits in February. If you stop playing then thats cool its no monthly fee come back see if its up to your standards if not then play something else or see what they have planned after this.

The february update is suppose to be the biggest update to Guild Wars 2 to date so no one has any idea exactly what all it will contain. We know wvw progression is coming in this patch so just wait and see.

If progression or incentive for wvw is what your looking for and they have that on the table in 3 weeks then that would mean its heading in the right direction no?

Columba.9730:

thieves hit me far harder than warriors ever do. it’s easy to avoid warrior high dps shots. thieves should have a stealth debuff after attacking.

Thieves don’t do their main damage out stealth they do it from stealth. Unless your pistol/pistol, sword/dagger, sword/pistol.

If your suggestion would be implemented then a d/d thiefs best opener they could muster for damage would be cnd(with your proposed debuff so no stealth) mug (is this suggested debuff stacking or not?) then auto attack or heartseeker (debuff still stacking?)

Lets assume the debuff stacks then the thief would have open with above then stand around waiting for debuff to wear off to cloak (cnd would just become a attack no invis at all since it has this suggested debuff) cloak would then have to come from Blinding powder, shadow refuge, traited steal, instinctual response, last refuge. Those would have to be run by every d/d thief in order to do damage for backstab. They get backstab off with reveal debuff then they have to use 1 of the above to get back in stealth or auto attack you making thieves absolutely terrible and free kills.

No one would use d/d at all if that was the case. So then thieves all run s/d, d/p, s/p, p/p. Eventually all thieves only run s/d as that is probably the best set you can run with out stealth. So basically your suggestion would make people want to avoid a spec that needs stealth to get good damage out of it but provide some form of sustain. Sounds like a total class rework to me with that suggestion.

Riselight.3695:

I hate thieves for two reasons: Too high single target damage & stealth:
Their DPS is insane and they can kill anyone in 3 seconds. Stealth is a larger issue, when I’m fighting a thief and I’m winning, he/she simply goes into stealth to run away, is this fun? No. I feel thief always have the upperhand in a battle with stealth, they use it to control the battle, something no other class can do, it gives them the opening strike which is very important. If that is not enough, most of their skills can evade any attack, it can be hard sometimes to even hit them as they fastly run/fly around you and kill you. But especially the running away with stealth part is what pisses me off the most. A good fix would be an longer CD for stealth skills in combat, or decrease the stealth duration in combat and decrease the movement speed in stealth.
I’ve played a thiefish class before in another MMORPG, and there, they were pretty balanced. They could go into stealth for 3 minutes (!), but it was not possible during combat, their dps was high, but their HP and defense was very, very low. Or your target was dead, or you were dead.

(Opinion of an active WvW player)

I know its opinion so I am not insulting or anything just to put that out there.

You say decreasing stealth duration would be a possible fix but if you don’t have 15 points in shadow arts then your stealth from a CnD is only 2 secs anyway. If a theif puts all his points in power and crit he has 10 points left and cant get an extra second of stealth duration. He has to put them somewhere else most put the 10 in sa or maybe trick for fury.

Not every thief can kill anyone in 3 seconds it all depends on how they spec which applies to other classes also. If you spec damage you do damage. Also a thief that specs to kill someone in 3 seconds which is pretty long and I am sure a warrior can kill in 3 secs if specced for it) has to blow all cd’s.

A thief can get away pretty easy in plan sight in WvW. I run up to say your group of 3 or 4 poke at you. You want to kill me so I use infiltrator arrow(900m)/shadowstep(1200m)/steal on a mob(900m can be traited to 1200m)/traited thrill of the crime for swiftness(+8% movement speed since 33% is cap on movement speed)/with SoS. I pretty much got away, if you get to close in pursuit I use disabling shot a few times (stacks duration). Could also add caltrops(utility skill) to that mix for a aoe cripple. If good at 360 degree turn I could run withdraw to add more distance(15 sec cd). All of those skills require no stealth at all to pull off. Only 2 uses initiative. Only thing catching me is maybe a ele, or warrior. If the fact that a thief can leave a fight when they want is your biggest issue with thief it has to do with mobility not stealth.

Does stealth help to disengage yea but you can disengage all day long with out it.

Red Falcon.8257:

As a Thief I say we are definitely OP in WvW, but that is because our nerfs dont apply there.
In sPvP where all nerfs apply we are very balanced.

Just apply PvP nerfs to WvW anet, quit pretending that WvW is PvE.

I would say that you would still see higher numbers in WvW just because you can tweak your gear more in WvW than PvP. Then the solution would be just remove everyones trinkets and give them on the sPvP trinkets. Then stacking sigils would have to be changed etc.

The only thief specific nerf I am aware of that is different in sPvP is daze on tactical strike when you use a sigil of paralyzation. Other than that isn’t crit damage calculated different in sPvP which is not specific to just thieves.

food butternut squash or whatever its called will give you 100 precision which is 5% crit chance master maintenance oils which convert some of your toughness and vitality to crit chance it depends on where your points are with what you get. Armor doesn’t affect this just your traits point allocation unless there is a bug somewhere but from my testing armor has no effect on that food. That food will give you more than the other food maybe like 7-8% crit chance.

Then just put on all zerker if your focus is crit chance or rampager but you will drop crit damage but I think you can achieve the 60% or even higher in all zerk.

It is really good in PvP like really good. I messed around with a bit in WvW too me and 2 other thieves at the far north supply camp hiding behind one of the stables with the trap in front of the spawn. It was really funny your like your own ambush thief lol.

Most of the complaints come from WvW and some people think WvW=1v1’s or even 1v3’s. It happens if your out by yourself I roll condi thief solo alot if I come up against 2 bunker guardians when I am out roaming its just better for me to leave because it will probably take me 30 minutes to just to get 1 stomp if I get 1 at all. So many blinds and aegis running around its better to disengage that fight and keep trucking.

If you look at what WvW is about its about objectives and PPT+ kills don’t get tallied up for PPT at all. What is more important for score/winning fighting a 1v3 or 1v1 or taking a camp? Thieves are really good at distracting people / groups I have had 5-10 people chasing me before while I laugh and think to myself these 5-10 people could be manning some siege somewhere or taking a camp in the amount of time they have been chasing me.

The people complaining I think are the ones that have a mindset of “See=Kill” if they see enemy they must kill enemy. I am sure many people have seen times when your rolling with your zerg of say 20+ and 15 break off just to kill 1 enemy player. When those people realize that objectives>kills in WvW then you will see less complaints till then they will keep coming.

did the op get deleted or something cause I don’t see the op at first I thought loading made the thread rofl. Was there something important in the OP?

Otaur.9268:

Piteous.4165:

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

Because we had about 10 people spread out in the 1 area… And he literally just dropped out of combat and vanished. I explain most of this in previous posts.

Maybe he disconnected and somebody forgot to pick the bag up or didn’t see it

Last Refuge I think they should get rid of last refuge and replace it with instinctual response as the minor. Give something else in place of instinctual response.

33% duration on poison I agree with poison stacks duration anyway I don’t feel its needed.

Hard to catch – I know people use it but I feel its kind of meh maybe increase the duration the cals stay on the ground a little bit longer then it would be better. You pretty much have to be inside the target to get them to hit.

Richochet – Maybe it make it hit 2 additional targets at 20% chance I’d roll with that. I messed with it and didn’t think it was all that great it procs pretty decent at 20% but its 1 bullet o.O and random to which target it hits so 2 additional targets I think would be good.

Venomous aura – increase range a bit maybe 600 meters

Thats all I can think of atm off top of my head.

This is why I like p/d so much is the flexibility like Fat runs BP. and spider

I run 0/0/30/20/20 and usually run shadow step (for those GC thieves with haste) and shadow refuge. I like SR as opposed to SR because like fat who drops the poison Ill drop SR and pop leeching bolts straight from it which is really good and if you time it right you can get 2 sneak attacks while under refuge and of course I run SoS.

Niim.9260:

Waking.6052:

oZii.2864:

Best roaming Group I seen on Mags was AON that is all I have to add to this thread

Yeah. Why did they leave?

DB has the lowest NA population for T3, thus the best opportunity to find a fight, is the short answer as to why we went there.

Are you guys staying on DB? Last I talked to Con he said you guys were looking for a permanent server.

1v1 vs what? Imo 20/0/30/20/0 is better 1v1 but I run 0/0/30/20/20 most of the time.

I mean its the same gear and retraiting isnt expensive just run whatever you feel like running I switch my traits up all the time.

You can get by without devourer venom imo you can run 0/0/30/20/20 with venoms too.

I think really only spider is good if you are running 0/0/30/20/20 if you can get off all 5 strike landing successfully provided they don’t wipe the poison by time it wears off its back up again since it stack duration spider is also extra dps so you can add spider to 30/20/20 really its what you like to run at the moment in my opinion.

1v1 vs another p/d thief say opposing specs I would give the edge to 20/0/30/20 but slight it still will come down to cnd’s etc and probably be a stalemate anyway provided equal skill.

I really only have problems with a all the way bunker guardian with the passive condi removal thats usually a stalemate fight anway.

Its really not 100% set in stone cookie cutter, some run leeching venoms which adds extra dps and is available on either build set up some dont run venoms etc.

thanks appreciated will definitely be taking a look

Lokheit.7943:

I get my 75% duration from 3*Krait and 3*Afflicted (Having 3 of each gives a great increase on condition damageof +110 that you don’t get with 3 pairs instead of 2 trios), 25 DA points and 2 sigils of agony.

When I use foods I go for Fire Flank Steak as it’s super easy to farm (1 Ghost Pepper and 1 Red Meat, that’s all you need) and gives you power and condition damage to go with your Carrion equipment bonuses and Deadly Arts and Trickery points.

Hmm interesting 25 in da I havent tried that yet. Whats your condi damage?

My guess is your 25/0/30/0/15 right?

thats what makes me like p/d so much is that you can really get weird with your traits and points alot of flexibility to mess and tinker.

I mostly run 0/0/30/20/20 sometimes ill run the venom build as I like spider venom alot.

You know what else is good put hyromancy sigil on one of your weaponsets and pump up condition duration a 5 sec chill on weapon swap is really good for a thief and you can proc ice drake venom with the weapon swap and about 20 points in da with food your looking at about 8 secs of chill.

P/D <3

I want to know what a Angry Unicorn is thats all I want to know

I can’t call WvW casual or hardcore pvp it is just PvP.

Like above poster said anyone can come in and get kills and leave right? The objective of WvW is holding objectives raising point totals for a Week long match? Then it would be hardcore right if your suppose to be in first place for 1 week?

Its a sandbox that allows hardcore and casual pvp fans alike to play in it but it can’t be defined as casual or hardcore on its own it is just PvP period.

If I join WvW everyday of the week and do nothing but roam and kill people not even bothering to take a supply camp in passing and Johnny logs in everyday and make sures Redvale refuge is safe and secure and upgraded with supply roaming guards and isnt being attacked who is hardcore and who isn’t in that picture? Both hardcore? Or even if the roaming group does nothing but take camps compared to johnny who is hardcore and who isnt? You can’t define who’s effort is greater to the server vs server war more than the other its hard to do unless your with that person every moment of everyday. Time can’t be used to describe who is the hardcore wvwer and who isnt because I can log in afk run into wall for hours. There is no way to know who is more hardcore and who isn’t in wvw unless your with them then what metric is used to determined what level you reach hardcore status?

Silly really WvW is objectives, roaming, camping, siege placement, counter trebbing, flanking etc are all required if you want to win. Some are more important than others and solo roaming or 5 man roaming is probably the least important thing in WvW when it comes to points and PPT. It can provide a important distraction to a group headed to garrison and a few ppl might break off the zerg to fight you and your group but those that serious about taking redvale refuge or ascension bay are going to keep on trucking regardless.

Then even if there is some crazy rewards for 5 man roaming or ganking or whatever thats not going to help you when its seige time. If a group of 30 roll up on you with ballistas, a golem, arrow carts and 3 flame rams on the doors what is your 5 man group gonna do? You would be silly to not mention you need reinforcements in map chat cause you think you can hold it.

Your rolling by with your gank group and you see 15 people about to take a keep you
1. Just gonna roll into the 15 people?

2. Or will you roll into the 15 people and call for help?

3. Will you go inside of the keep and man the siege to defend the keep and call for help if you think you can’t hold them off?

Number 3 is the better choice.

Honestly these complaints about small man groups where never around months as ago when the game launched. Not really around months after that. I think its just a subsection of people that might be fed up with sPvP and want to bring some thing over to WvW. I don’t know buffs for small man groups or whatever is really so small on the issues with WvW.

Just down the player and if you cant get a stomp down that same player again who already has the down penalty each time they have less health.

Down state is fine I wouldn’t want it to be easy. Sometimes you just have to walk away even if you know that in this 1v3 you can clearly spike them all if there was no downstate/rezzing. I wouldn’t want it to be easier to stomp than is omg the complaints then would be so much worse.

“D/D ele kills 5 man group is OP”

insert post that the downstate should have more health etc.

That would most definitely happen.

Increasing the map size will not really change anything just make it bigger. The maps could be more dynamic say like how eternal is more nooks and passages etc. The borderlands are rather plain and flat for the most part.

Most roaming/5 man groups or whatever you want to call it hang out down south in the bl hardly ever go far up north because thats away from the spawns and away from the fights.

If its a bl where you have waypoints at the bay or hills then its no big deal getting back into the action but I don’t see many roaming type groups on their own borderlands much unless they have a waypoint at bay or hills because if they wipe then you have to come all the way back from citadel or garrison and were do most roamers hang out down south on almost all the borderlands. A larger map doesn’t fix that.

Eternal is a better designed map because the spawn points and surrounding areas aren’t identical and there are enough side points and passages to allow for random fights and also to avoid the zergs a bit easier.

I really don’t think there is a solution to say entice people to roam or move with a smaller squad. Some people like rolling with a large group of people and that wont really change.

I roam see a zerg that has the gate almost down in a keep and I go in help kill the lord and then go my seperate way. If Im solo and I see a enemy group/zerg about to take a keep we have then I send a message over map chat and go into defend mode.

You have to remember some people like large scale warfare trying to coordinate 20-30 people requires skill also. Proper siege placement followed by a good attack once you reach inner bay requires skill also.

I have seen plenty of times you have 20 people attacking the front gate when the wall is down just 1200 units away.

No past broadcasts on your twitch I’d like to look at some of your D/P play

Best roaming Group I seen on Mags was AON that is all I have to add to this thread

Is it me or does it seem like the scorpion wire deployed by the thieves in Thieves Guild seem like always works no matter terrain differences or anything. I know it can still be dodged but whatever wire the thieves use its better than the one we get.

Mm I have a level 80 mesmer and level 80 thief I don’t play my mesmer anymore unless its for fractals since that character is the highest level. If I had the patience to level my thief for fractals I would probably play my thief in there also.

Depends on what you want to do I guess I think trait wise thief when compared to mesmer thief wins hands down.

There are multiple builds out there and you can tweak for flexibility or what you like really. There are a few stable traits that most will say are must haves depending on build but its not like mesmer since last time I really paid attention to what is going on with mesmers.

I don’t run BS d/d I tried it not my style but I will run P/P+S/D, PD+SB, D/P + S/D, each can be ran different ways some optimal some not but all fun imo.

Aeranima.2853:

This thread is for discussing the fact that the game is programmed to follow-target into stealth. Not discussing ways to avoid it like we’re noobs who are getting killed while in stealth.
AoE’s are suppose to hit everything within the cirkle while single target attacks are supposed to be interrupted by going in stealth. It’s not game-breaking. It’s an exploit just like the previously fixed elementalist lightning-target exploit.

Or its a bug perhaps

Also maybe should change the thread title to get good responses instead of you “Having a Bad day” which wont draw in people to have a good conversation.

You just have to break down the numbers on what is better the argument over which is better damage or duration is all in this thread.

here you go

Taken from this thread: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/72711-khalifs-bleed-build/

The formula to calculate the dmg done by bleed ticks, at level 80, is this -> 42.5+(0.05*condition dmg); lets use 43 instead of 42.5

For this,ill assume full condition equipment, lets use carrion set with the above runes, to total 1434 condtion dmg:
43+(0.05*1434) <=> 114.7,lets round up to 115 dmg bleeds, this in 10 secs will do 1150 dmg, with 15% more duration (wich will add only 1 second), ull have a total of 1265 dmg;

With MY proposal, ill switch the 5 afflicted + 1 other condiotn rune with 2/2/2 (krait+afflicted+lyssa) and sigil of agony, for a grand total of:
43+(0.05*1279) <=> 107 dmg bleeds, 107*15=1605 dmg total, 1605-1265=340, wich means i do 26.88% MORE dmg…
Now lets see the P/D weapon set:
Above build from OP: 115*4 (no extra ticks, you need 25% extended duration for another second) -> 460 dmg;
MY build -> 107*6 (50% extended grants you 2 more secs of bleed) --—-> 642 dmg; 642-460=182, wich is 39.57% MORE dmg…

Also why would you go superior sigil of earth if you really have no crit chance? You are better of with superior sigil of geomancy 3 stacks of bleeds on weapon swap base duration is 7 seconds. I have 75% duration so my geomancy is 3 stacks of bleeds for 12 seconds on weapon swap.

To simplify you want to go for durations in 25% increments. 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% durations are all extra ticks on your bleeds from pistol. So just shoot for those with your runes and if you run food factor that in.

Example I have 2x Krait 2x Afflicted and 2x Mad King atm moment. That 40% duration on its own just from runes. I use the veggie pizza for +40% condition duration which brings me to +80% bleed duration. I get benefit from 75% of that bleed duration. To get more benefit from bleed duration I have to go up to 100% anything else is wasted.

So from there you can start to see where you should spend to get more out of your bleeds. I run sigil of corruption atm but I am going to drop it soon because I have access to might pretty easily which is +35 condition damage per stack. So by dropping the corruption sigil and replacing it with agony That will allow me to go 3x krait and 3x afflicted for an additional 110 condition damage at the beginning of a fight

Yea alot of people know that when your in stealth channel skills still follow the thief while in stealth. I see mesmers with scepters do it alot or rangers.

Should it stop the cancel if you go in stealth realistically yes, I don’t feel its game breaking that it doesn’t.

If I was running glass and no pts in SA with no regen in stealth it would maybe bother me a bit more.

I can get with these ideas. It is wait and see right now though to see what is planned for the big WvW update in February.

For myself I like to roam sometimes I get with my server and join the larger groups it just depends on my mood really. I would like titles that would be enough for me as a player since I just like the fights I encounter either zerg or roaming.

Aeneasx.1589:

I posted a thread on reddit with 80% or more likes.

All of the changes were from DAoC. I posted the same thing here and got like 1 response.

Link to the reddit thread?

Small Man teams are fine if that is what you wanna do small man it up. I roam also but really how often does a small 5 man skirmish turn into a 5v8 or whatever because someone comes by and sees there is a fight.

Also the fact that you call people zergling idiots isn’t to good either. You have never been in a zerg ever? You never been with your roaming group saw a group about to take a tower and with the gate down and went inside to help? You have become apart of the zerg.

Zerg = This force is more than that force in numbers.

Really its not going to change it is apart of WvW.

The people that constantly cry about whatever issue is not going to go away because of a PTS. People will still cry about the proposed changes because implemented by Anet on a PTS because they are to lazy to go test on the PTS in the first place.

Just go to Blizzards starcraft 2 PTS forums lol. I know RTS doesn’t = MMO but just in the context of a PTS as a separate entity will not stop people complaining on the forums at all.

You will have people that will still theorycraft with out testing and people that will hope in play 10 minutes and say OMG this is broken here is why. Without detailed testing.

Should probably go into the thief feedback thread imo. There is alot of Defend-a-Thief and Nerf-a-Thief threads.

It ends up in the same conversation over and over with the same things said. This thread will be an example of that I am sure. Should have just posted this in the feedback thread.

This thread is Signet of Shadows is to good to say no to!

Stiv.1820:

It works anywhere in the 180 degree arch behind them so you can get away with side stabs and such.

What stiv said a side stab counts as a back stab in this game.

Just go to the mist with a S/D and move slightly to the left or right of the Golem and watch were you get tactical strike that is counted as the side or back. Those same angles count for a backstab. You are going to be probably surprised if you didn’t know what constitutes a back/side strike in this game.

Its not difficult.

I doubt this will help/change anything. Anet must be ok with were the thief is because they haven’t nerfed it since november. None of the crazy suggestions by people are taken into consideration. When asked on the devchat live stream which characters they felt were not balanced thief was specifically included in the question. The devs said bunker eles and mesmer portals that was it those were the only 2 classes on their watchlist.

What you are writing is written in the feedback thread people are going to still whine.

If I was going to QQ this kind of thread would actually be ammo for my cause lol.

The devs are fine with it your just always are going to have people that QQ can’t police everyone.

Yea I can get see maybe a buff to 900 range on infiltrator strike.

I think headshot is fine from my understanding if you actually interrupt a skill during cast with headshot it cant be used for almost 3 seconds. 1/2 sec daze buff wouldn’t really change much. The wiki says its 5 seconds but I think its more around 3 seconds.

Everything else though sounds good to me bladie

I am noticing less GC bs thieves though there are still some but for the most part I am seeing more P/D, S/D thieves lately. If they are D/D I am noticing alot more carrying S/D on them instead of SB. I don’t see alot of D/D condi spec thieves though. Few P/P thieves and a few D/P.

Right now just from my play experience lately I would say S/P is what I run into the least of all the thieves I see. You guys think S/P is fine or needs as much or more love than P/P?

Kurow.6973:

oZii.2864:

Steal + CnD thanks for spotting that one

Show me yourself consistently landing that on a mobile player who’s not running away in a straight line without Mug and Devourer/Basilisk Venom.

What that means is, it’s not reliable against GOOD players without Mug and Devourer/Basilisk Venom.

That also means C&D is NOT a 900 range skill, and infact you’re wasting a 45s c/d class specific skill to attempt to make it one.

By that logic, all rangers should be nerfed for having 1500 range at all times.

Red Falcon.8257:

Kurow.6973:

That’s because the current set-up is kitten. Which is why people have requested countless times for buffs to this garbage weapon set. ANet even admitted to this. So, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

There’s also no reason to have a weapon set available to a class if it’s going to be of no use at all.

If you think SB and Pistols are garbage you have major L2P issues.

Did I say SB anywhere in my post? I think you have a major L2R issue.

…and @ Leriff: Unload does not apply combo abilities that easily (even if it appears that way). Each shot has a 20% chance to apply the combos. If you pay attention, you’ll notice that the combo ability definition and animation shows up, but the actual effect does not. Body Shot does a better job applying combo abilities than Unload.

The context of what I was saying is that if you make pistol 1200 range for example in a P/D build I am stacking bleeds on the target from far out now the target can blow condi removal way out at the beginning of the fight or dodge which plays into my hands even more. Now if said target has blown his dodges why wouldn’t I Steal CnD? Why would I sit there and continue to auto attack with vital shot?

That was the context in which I was mentioning Steal + CnD combo I mistakenly said CnD is 900 range. Then you go on a tangent but w/e.

If I am running P/D and I see the person blow all their dodges out at 1200 range given this hypothetical situation of 1200 range on pistols whats more optimal than using CnD Steal combo to stack more bleeds with sneak attack?

Thats why I am saying making pistols 1200 range is a too good especially for a p/d thief. My steal does no damage and doesn’t poison. Depending on what I steal from the enemy depends on if its really worth it to go for the steal and the surrounding environment.

Also using the steal gets me fury, might and swiftness, 15 seconds of vigor and rips 2 boons. Most people apply their important boons at the beginning of the fight anyway so sometimes its good to use steal at the beginning of the fight.

You are right CnD is not a 900 range skill as per the tool tip but CnD Steal combo is game design intended apart of the combat system as in instant cast abilities effective abilities as per the devs. So while it isnt 900 range per tool tip it become 900 range when pair with Steal its just not a guaranteed hit like many skills in this game.

Guess I should take off my 2x Krait and 2x afflicted and 2x centaur runes because the tool tip isnt showing my bleeds as 7 seconds. So that means my bleeds really ARE NOT 7 secs.

If your for 1200 range more power to you if they gave me 1200 range whatever I’ll take it but I don’t think its necessary.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone

They use denial magic, same magic as mesmers.

Oh nice one Daecollo never knew this myself time to read up

Refuge – shelter or protection from danger or distress (explains house)

thats all I have

slender.1482:

Fleet shadow (+50% ms in stealth) is very good, I like it better than might on dodge.
take condition removal in stealth over patience or infusion, it’s one of the best traits we have. you always want the condition removal and shadow’s rejuv, the condi removal is far too valuable and easily accessed.

consider taking shadow protector (regen boon from stealth) or cloaked in shadow (blind on stealthing) as well. cloaked in shadow blind while in melee range is extremely useful, and you will never be initiative starved in a p/d build.

I feel like fleet shadow is good if your not running SoS. If you are running SoS +8% ms in combat isn’t that great.

take 30 in shadow arts, 20 in acro, 20 in trick call it a day. You basically have the d/d or P/d condition thief spec but you don’t have 30 in SA. You can twist it and put points in da if you like for the condition duration. Also since your gearing for conditions and bleeds basically focusing on power doesn’t do alot if your just spamming db anyway since it really doesnt do alot of damage. Backstab mmm I guess but you really should get take hidden assassin for the stacks of might shadow refuge will get you 10 stacks on its on.

I don’t know its kind of all over the place imo the way you built this its like it wants to be a direct damage and condition build. DB has some good long bleeds on it 3 stacks thats good but direct damage is kind of wasted imo since your just really focused on spam from db and your backstabs will be average and will they be a big part of your rotation.

I can see the idea behind it I suppose but really if your undecided between condition and direct damage you are better off focusing on 1 or the other as a thief its like a GC DD thief who is all in da and crit but puts venom sigils on his weapons to increase choking gas by 10% not optimal

Divinity.8041:

oZii.2864:

pretty much every build that most thieves run are here on the forums or on guru. some quick searching will find your answers instead of you waiting for people to respond. you seem all excited by playing a thief.

The only difference between many of the wvw specs and spvp specs is maybe no signet of shadows in spvp most people run signet of shadows in wvw. There might be a few trait differences from there you just tweak to what you like experiment thats the good thing is that you find said build and tweak a simple search for s/d thief, d/d thief etc on guru will get you the answer you need. Its pretty much stickied to the top of thief forums.

Please learn to read.

I asked what good players are running, not about blatantly obvious guides on certain builds.

Your attempt to troll has failed.

I also noted that I looked up the said builds I was asking about…

I wanted to know the meta from pvp players. Thanks anyway.

---

Thank you to the 99% of people who can read and comprehend English in answering my question. Keep it coming!

Divinity.8041:

what kind of builds are the pros running?

d.d backstab?

what is the difference in sword/pistol? is that another meta build?

Asked on forum

Divinity.8041:

Just looking for some starting points, no need for pve advice here thanks anyways.

After further research I found

S/P
D/P
and the infamous D/D

I also saw a lotus blossum bleeder spec too. What do you guys rec? I got my highest score in guild wars 2 on my 3rd game on thief last night running the UBER glassy D/D backstab build.

Kind of want to try the D/P build and combo into some backstabs while also getting more cc.

Any recs?

Asked on forum

Divinity.8041:

I am exclusively hotjoin SPVP.

What do you guys think? I am currently running the ill glass cannon D/D BS thief. I melt when focused, but can pull off amazing damage. Still learning, but want to try something a little more stealthy?

What do you think shines in hotjoin/zerg play?

Asked on forum

Did I misread something?

I wasn’t trying to troll you I haven’t seen a ask the pro’s section on the forums anywhere. Those same pro builds you asked about are pretty much the ones people are running like the venom share build, jinzu backstab burst build etc nothing has changed drastically to make someone switch from executioner trait to hidden killer trait.

So sensitive

Example you mentioned lotus blossom bleeder spec I can tell you the build off top of my head and I don’t watch any pro stream if a pro is running the lotus blossom bleeder spec as you called it there isn’t going to be much deviation in how he traits it then Jim from New Hampshire on his Asus laptop in WvW outside a few utilities or traits if that.

pretty much every build that most thieves run are here on the forums or on guru. some quick searching will find your answers instead of you waiting for people to respond. you seem all excited by playing a thief.

The only difference between many of the wvw specs and spvp specs is maybe no signet of shadows in spvp most people run signet of shadows in wvw. There might be a few trait differences from there you just tweak to what you like experiment thats the good thing is that you find said build and tweak a simple search for s/d thief, d/d thief etc on guru will get you the answer you need. Its pretty much stickied to the top of thief forums.

Sifu.6527:

Torres.2890:

Is having below +100% condition duration useless?

According to the wiki , bleeding ticks only every second. What if I have +78% cnd duration. Does this mean it won’t have any effect at all?

Yes, Boon Duration and Condition Duration is cap at 90 % (maybe 95%).

condition duration is cap at 100%

Kurow.6973:

Yes, leave my warrior damage and range to my warrior please. I do not need thieves having anywhere near similar capabilities.

Also, I’m curious…who blows all their dodges on auto attack against a P/D thief? Are these the same people that come to the forums whining about unnecessary nerfs and buffs?

…and while on the topic, since when is C&D a 900 range skill? Did I miss a ninja update or something?

Steal + CnD thanks for spotting that one

depoends on what your build is and what your sacrificing. Stacking bleeds for instance then duration is good going for 100% can be a stretch but like I said it depends on what your sacrificing. If you can get to 100% duration on say bleeds while still maintaining a decent amount of condition damage then go for it. You have to remember things like might etc which adds +35 condition duration per stack.

Also condition duration on something like poison imo isnt as vital since it stack duration so if you can apply poison pretty often then I wouldn’t go out and get a venom sigil for the +10% but if say you had access to chill then duration is really good. It depends though but for bleeds I say duration is pretty good stat to look at just don’t sacrifice alot of condition damage for it find a good balance if you can.

I can’t see this. 900 range isnt bad when you have access to stealth anyway. P/P does some serious damage and being able to dump that from 1,200 range would be so roll face.

p/d let me stack you with 8 bleeds before you get close and force you to burn your dodges with my auto attack that costs me nothing then when your in range at 900 meters I get a free steal + cnd since you blew your dodges?

Because binding roots cause a condition called immobilize which is a condition.

If a memser is stealthing out of binding root then they are probably doing it with a torch which removes conditions when you stealth if traited a thief is removing immobilize because they are traited to remove condition from stealth.

If neither are traited to remove condition with stealth then neither will stealth out of the root and be able to move. They will just stealth but still be stuck.

I dont know anything about rangers but if you have remove condition on gs3 then you could get out of it.

Really its all about the condition removal a mesmer could do the same thing if they laid down null field if you put them in binding root they would walk out of it.

Iohanna.4863:

Sinsko, Gungnir is incorrect.

Precision, Toughness and Condition Damage are good stats for a standard 0/0/30/20/20 Bleed Thief (Pistol/Dagger + Dagger/Dagger). Carrion is not optimal because Vitality is a dump stat for any Thief with stealth condition removal (toughness will save you from burst).

If you put Sigil of Earth on your pistol or dagger, you will apply bleeds when you crit.

Sigil of Earth isnt really worth it 1 bleed on a 2 sec icd? Geomancy is much better choice 3 stacks of bleed for 7 secs yes please!!

I agree with gungir here I have a friend in all rabid gear head to toe and he has 11k hp.

If your running d/d or p/d and you have 11k hp you would be better off running s/p if your going pve or wvw.

Just the way a thief is played I feel like vitality>toughness sure it helps with burst but your not even tanking anything on a thief anyway so why have all that toughness?

It really all comes down to what you like/want necro’s don’t really solo roam much that I see as in its not what they are looking for in the class.

D/D eles and thieves do some warriors also but its still depends on builds etc.

When its siege time a thief is ok but not better than other classes wvw has many different elements going on simultaneously its really hard to pick a best overall.

A d/d ele can be good at roaming then siege time put on a staff and wreck siege. It really depends though on class, what you like to do, what your facing and what the objective is really.