Guild Wars 2

Favorite class to fight against is Thief its usually 9 time out of 10 some weapon set based on blowing all the damage cool downs to get a quick easy kill. Nothing brings me more pleasure in WvW than ruining a thief’s lust for the quick easy kill. Usually bad players.

I usually run P/D but sometimes other sets and the other day I was running D/P + S/D and I popped Black Powder and this thief just heartseeker like 5 times in a row and didn’t get the hint as to why he could hit me I couldn’t stop laughing.

There is something about people that run haste glass builds (all professions)that makes me want to kill them even more I go for a kill even more if I see them using haste not sure why maybe its just me. It just partially screams I am made of glass kill me please.

Least favorite bunker Guardians are tough fights with access to aegis, knock backs and blinds can throw you off. Fortunately most guardians aren’t complete bunkers.

SniffyCube.6107:

oZii.2864:

TheGhostBaron.1250:

oZii, if I may mate, I think the problem you’re having in a thread about T8 is you’re not in T8. You’re looking at end results and all other kinds of data, which because SF is still in T8, the results and data aren’t working as intended. Cause if the data really meant anything SF would be gone and those of us on FC and ET would be fighting a new 3rd server and probably having a blast.

This is why you have to look at the data then you wouldn’t think this at all. The data shows that SF is suppose to be in T8 they can not move up because nobody in T7 loses by enough and SF doesn’t win by enough to move up. What 3rd server would you face? It wouldn’t be one from T7 because they don’t lose by enough PPT. SF is close to the rating to move up to T7 but HoD would have to come in last probably 2 or 3 times in order to drop down.

As it is HoD doesn’t come in first often but they do come in second often switching between 2nd and 3rd but its not like they come in 3rd and get blown out and its not like they come in 3rd 3 or 4 times in a row.

What 3rd server would you face? You need HoD to tank at least 4 or 5 weeks in a row. Your problem has as much to do with Henge of Denravi as it does Sorrow’s.

People have been trying to explain to you that things have changed and it’s not about the data… that you have to be here to experience the trasnfers, morale, and how the server fights are going… we mentioned that a few from HOD that came to ET said the SF coverage was insane… yet you insist on flaunting these pre paid server xfer stats in our faces and tell us that we’re bad because we’re tier 8… honestly, like the other players have said, you should come down here and experience it. Otherwise, you’re trolling looking for an argument. There were some intelligent rebuttals after your posts but I guess you’ve failed to read them… I guess the free bumps are nice.

I am not looking for a argument you are obviously because anyone with a different point of view is trolling.

Ok throw out SF coverage throw out all off everything.

Unless HoD loses by alot SF can not and will not move up to Tier 7. That is point blank period that is just the facts.

It is not just a T8 problem there are other servers in other tiers that are equal to what you face in SF in that their coverage is better than the servers they are facing.

At the end of the day SF will not move out of Tier 8 unless a Tier 7 server starts to lose alot. That is just what it is no matter how you slice the bread that still has to happen.

Corvus.3681:

oZii.2864:

TheGhostBaron.1250:

oZii, if I may mate, I think the problem you’re having in a thread about T8 is you’re not in T8. You’re looking at end results and all other kinds of data, which because SF is still in T8, the results and data aren’t working as intended. Cause if the data really meant anything SF would be gone and those of us on FC and ET would be fighting a new 3rd server and probably having a blast. This is why people aren’t taking anything you’re saying seriously, because you don’t have any first hand experience with the problem like we do. Untill you fight you tail off reset day only to see hours of hard work go up in smoke after a mere 8 hour period and then have to try and fight to take your territory back when its defended by 3 and 4 times your number, you should leave this thread. I mean that with all the respect in the world because if you don’t like what we’re saying or how we’re saying it you shouldn’t be reading this thread.

That being said, if you wanna stay in this thread you should ante up the money to transfer to FC or ET and fight with us against SF day in and day out and see how long you consider T8 an even match.

It happens in every tier there are plenty of matchups right now in higher tiers were a server is rolling the other server. Its about coverage if you don’t have the coverage equal to the other servers your facing then you are going to lose. That isn’t just a tier 8 problem. Our match right now we are rolling DR and IOJ because we have better coverage and more WvW players than they do. DR can take their entire borderland and we can take it back anytime we want.

Look at yaks bend they are rolling in their matchup. I get it you put in effort and the server you are facing is rolling and its not a fair matchup you feel. I get that part but that is not just a T8 problem. Its not just a Kain train problem either.

It happens in Tier 1 SBI had an exodus because they always get rolled by SoS and people got tired of it now SBI is falling they will be tier 5 next week. Sound like a story similar to yours and I don’t play tier 1 or T8 I have been in Tier 7. Sea of Sorrows can’t go anywhere they have to be number 1 and the servers below them have to fight for 2nd and 3rd.

But when a higher tier loses, they will move down or the other team will get moved up and maybe get a fairer match. With us, we’re just stuck getting steamrolled for the foreseeable future. I want to like WvW but our situation is Sisyphean.

Thats not what happens in the higher tiers. If a tier 1 server drops to tier 2 they will steam roll tier 2 and the tier 2 server that moves up will get steam rolled. Then they will switch back the next week.

It has happened alot of times like I said look at crystal desert. My server was tier 4 CD was tier 3 they dropped down because they got tired of fighting but not advancing. They dropped and rolled our tier it was boring for everyone. CD moved back up to Tier 3.

Fort aspenwood long time tier 3 server moved up last week to tier 2 they got rolled they dropped down to tier 3 again but they roll the current tier 3 servers. So now FA is stuck they aren’t good enough for Tier 2 but roll the servers in tier 3. So now they have to either get rolled or roll others over.

Yaks bend will take maguumas spot in Tier 3 and unless yaks bend got a ton of people they will get rolled and it wont be fun for anyone involved. Now Maguuma just rolled yaks bend about 2 weeks ago so that is why I am predicting Yaks gets rolled by FA.

Your problem of getting steam rolled by SF is not just a T8 problem.

TheGhostBaron.1250:

oZii, if I may mate, I think the problem you’re having in a thread about T8 is you’re not in T8. You’re looking at end results and all other kinds of data, which because SF is still in T8, the results and data aren’t working as intended. Cause if the data really meant anything SF would be gone and those of us on FC and ET would be fighting a new 3rd server and probably having a blast.

This is why you have to look at the data then you wouldn’t think this at all. The data shows that SF is suppose to be in T8 they can not move up because nobody in T7 loses by enough and SF doesn’t win by enough to move up. What 3rd server would you face? It wouldn’t be one from T7 because they don’t lose by enough PPT. SF is close to the rating to move up to T7 but HoD would have to come in last probably 2 or 3 times in order to drop down.

As it is HoD doesn’t come in first often but they do come in second often switching between 2nd and 3rd but its not like they come in 3rd and get blown out and its not like they come in 3rd 3 or 4 times in a row.

What 3rd server would you face? You need HoD to tank at least 4 or 5 weeks in a row. Your problem has as much to do with Henge of Denravi as it does Sorrow’s.

TheGhostBaron.1250:

oZii, if I may mate, I think the problem you’re having in a thread about T8 is you’re not in T8. You’re looking at end results and all other kinds of data, which because SF is still in T8, the results and data aren’t working as intended. Cause if the data really meant anything SF would be gone and those of us on FC and ET would be fighting a new 3rd server and probably having a blast. This is why people aren’t taking anything you’re saying seriously, because you don’t have any first hand experience with the problem like we do. Untill you fight you tail off reset day only to see hours of hard work go up in smoke after a mere 8 hour period and then have to try and fight to take your territory back when its defended by 3 and 4 times your number, you should leave this thread. I mean that with all the respect in the world because if you don’t like what we’re saying or how we’re saying it you shouldn’t be reading this thread.

That being said, if you wanna stay in this thread you should ante up the money to transfer to FC or ET and fight with us against SF day in and day out and see how long you consider T8 an even match.

It happens in every tier there are plenty of matchups right now in higher tiers were a server is rolling the other server. Its about coverage if you don’t have the coverage equal to the other servers your facing then you are going to lose. That isn’t just a tier 8 problem. Our match right now we are rolling DR and IOJ because we have better coverage and more WvW players than they do. DR can take their entire borderland and we can take it back anytime we want.

Look at yaks bend they are rolling in their matchup. I get it you put in effort and the server you are facing is rolling and its not a fair matchup you feel. I get that part but that is not just a T8 problem. Its not just a Kain train problem either.

It happens in Tier 1 SBI had an exodus because they always get rolled by SoS and people got tired of it now SBI is falling they will be tier 5 next week. Sound like a story similar to yours and I don’t play tier 1 or T8 I have been in Tier 7. Sea of Sorrows can’t go anywhere they have to be number 1 and the servers below them have to fight for 2nd and 3rd.

I never said T8 was a fair match or did I say it was even or competitive. I just said the servers that are in T8 SF included are suppose to be in tier 8. SF can’t move up to T7 unless ET and FC tank to let them win by alot and a T7 server tanks and both have to happen at the same time. That isn’t my opinion that is fact. I am not taking sides I am just saying that that is what is going on. That is why T8 is the matchup that it is.

I don’t have a problem with anything anyone is saying in the thread its a discussion nothing more nothing less.

my math was wrong

so 1300 condition damage is 107 at 6 secs 642 damage

1100 condition damage is 97 at 7 secs 679 damage

pretty easy to see how duration is alot better than damage though the numbers don’t look as pretty seeing the 100’s pop up. if you go to 8 secs 776 damage at 1100 condition damage. Remember you also have access to might pretty easily which is 35 condition damage per stack.

yes sigil of agony stacks

roamzero.9486:

Right now Im using undead runes and the 10% bleed duration sigils + rare veggie pizzas. Would it be better to use the bleed duration runes? 100% bleed duration isn’t possible with a 0/0/30/20/20 p/d build so Id only be buying a single extra tick on the pistol with bleed duration runes (would go from 6s stacks to 7, but Id lose about 210 condition damage).

??

It is possible

2x krait 2x centaur 2x afflicted + pizza+ sigil of agony x 2 = 105% bleed duration duration.

210 condition damage is 53 damage on a bleed. have to know what your condition damage is really to tell you which is better for you.

If we assume your bleed is doing lets say 125 damage per tick at 6 seconds thats 750 damage from 1 bleed.

125-53=72 at 7 secs thats 504 damage

You can figure out what is better the formula is

At level 80 this is:

42.5 + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per stack per second

Undead runes are a big enough jump in condition damage that it might not be worth it to go for duration if it is indeed 210 condition damage as you say.

SniffyCube.6107:

oZii.2864:

Anyway continue to go victim route or whatever your aim is here I am by no means an expert on the matchup algorithm.

Your basically arguing that your a team in the NCAA tournament and because you felt your team played hard but the other guys are a bit better and won you deserve to advance because of effort.

Anyone with half a brain can look at your servers matchup history and tell you that you are suppose to be at the bottom tier.

Yeah, you’re not a troll at all.

Anyway, a lot of people have thrown around a lot of good ideas on how to fix this issue.

Manual adjustments (moving servers up or down)
Reset the elo to just under t7 every once in a while for tier 8

You call that a troll? rofl A troll would be me trying to incite anger in you if you hooked into those words from that post then yea ok lol.

I even said I wasn’t a expert on the algorithm in the same sentince guess I trolled myself there too.

That part of the response was more a less directed at

but hey I’ll just go pretend to a surgeon after reading a surgery book

-SniffyCube

SniffyCube.6107:

Try to respect our situation… when you see individuals from all three of the servers on here saying that there is a problem with the tier, then there is probably a problem with the tier. We’ve given plenty of background and more people from our servers are chiming in. Honestly, I don’t respect your opinion at all oz, because you aren’t from here, you haven’t played our tier, and you have no idea what you’re talking about as a result. I am trying to see why or how you have any first hand knowledge of the situation here and I fail to.

Once again ozii, respect our thread and take the trolling elsewhere.

Stop being so sensitive I get it your the white knight for your cause. I never said anything offensive just looked at numbers. Your just thin skinned (extremely). Anet will do the same thing as objectively if not more than I did.

Takerukun.8924 provided a very nice explanation not some magical ranting about experience but numbers. This is also on the forums that is what happens when you post on the forums people click reply button.

Don’t respect it you should click the report button and see if I get an infraction I bet I dont because I haven’t said anything offensive. You are the one calling people trolls if they disagree you should really get over your sensitivity.

I have not said anything directed at you personally. I don’t know why you keep trying to throw personal attacks at me for because I disagree I guess that is deflection.

Back on topic -(because posting about people not being from tier 8 shouldn’t post in this thread is not on topic OP)

Thanks for the numbers breakdown takerukun.

fyi my server did play in tier 7 not to long ago.

The purpose of WvW being involved in Map completion is a smart move by Anet. Does it force you mmm yes if you want the legendary then you go to get it done. They just want to get other people to try or experience another part of the game so they can see if they like it or not.

I don’t like map completion at all but I had to do it to get the legendary. Its like badges of honor or heck any other thing.

I don’t like crafting but I need 2 crafts for the legendary so I had to do it.

Common knowledge but its good how you break it down.

The tool tip for vital shot is wrong its 4 sec bleed. you need 25% increments for each tick each tick represents a second. So you want 25% 50% 75% or 100% each represents a tick. 100% will net 8 second bleeds.

easily doable and is more damage than stacking condition damage. You still want condition damage but if you have to chose between the 2 going from a 107 bleed at 6 secs is less damage than a 103 bleed at 8 seconds. I believe its around 24 condition damage = 1 more point of damage per bleed. Which is not alot of extra damage at all.

Also longer duration bleeds help minimize the impact of condition removal because its easier to keep uptime with longer bleeds.

Ok if the argument is that SF should be in T7 I already posted on SF

SF peak rating is Rank 16th Tier 6

Devona’s gets the population influx you talk about and SF gets rolled. 15-22 December matchup.

They drop face GoM and HoD come in second then have same matchup the next week come in 3rd.

Since then they have been Tier 8 their first visit to tier 8 they came in second. Since then they have been in first.
12-19 januarty(not even a month ago)
The matchup was close between them and FC

SF 227,272
FC 212,693
ET 147,765

Since 19-26 January(still not even a month) they have won with a decent lead except the first time they came in first they only won by about 14.5k PPT over FC.

Your post makes good points but looking at the history of tier 8 servers the numbers show something different.

They havent been in tier 8 long enough and the first visit to tier 8 they came in second since then they have come in first 4 times. They aren’t winning by enough to move up to tier 7 because tier 7 is close enough and competitive enough to keep a ppt gap. When they hit tier 7 they came in 2nd 1 time. Then after that they came in 3rd which dropped them down to tier 8.

It took kaineng 3 weeks to move out of tier 8 thats not very long at all. Tier 7 is competitive HoD is 21st but looking at the match history they come in second pretty often in that tier only 1st 1 time but its back and forth between 3rd and 2nd its not like they always get blown out and are 3rd.

The only way SF moves out of tier 8 is to win by enough PPT and for the 21t server to lose by alot both need to happen simultaneously and on a regular basis. That is why SF wont move up.

Its like Tier 4 which is the upper flip flop tier. Tier 3 top servers are good but not enough to go to tier 2 and if they do they get blown out (see fort aspenwood recently) then drop but usually tier’s 1 through 3 are stable. Except the server in last in tier 3 sometimes what happens is the that server drops to tier 4 and blows out tier 4 and moves back up to tier 3 (see crystal desert)

Anyway continue to go victim route or whatever your aim is here I am by no means an expert on the matchup algorithm.

Your basically arguing that your a team in the NCAA tournament and because you felt your team played hard but the other guys are a bit better and won you deserve to advance because of effort.

Anyone with half a brain can look at your servers matchup history and tell you that you are suppose to be at the bottom tier.

SniffyCube.6107:

@ ozii, once again a post by a player who has no idea what’s going on. Fantastic that you can look up mos millenium stats for after almost every major wvw guild ET, but when ET hit rock bottom t8 got a pretty good influx from christmas and a few guilds moved over.

Anyone that’s actually played in our tier can tell you we can stand toe to toe with FC but, since you’re not here, and have never played here, and think you apparently know the state of wpvp here, I’ll enlighten you about SF

Who cares what someone will “tell” me that would probably be a opinion.

You have never beaten them FACT you have never placed first in any matchup Fact.

(but hey I’ll just go pretend to a surgeon after reading a surgery book)

Data shows fact not some fiction not some opinion I gave you an objective look at based on your responses and specifically your op you are Biased.

large zergs and a lot of coverage, and now since we’re losing guilds which are leaving one at a time (same with FC) it’s getting much worse – why? because apparently beating someone for over double your score doesn’t move you up. So please justify it all you want after you come here and become more informed.

*Your giving some hearsay and personal experience probably has some validity to some of it I’m sure. I am not discrediting all of it. The data shows the tier 8 servers are were they belong. I can look up FC but I am sure it shows the same thing with your server and SF. They never beat any of the higher tiers in order to justify moving up or staying put. *

You keep saying x server can stand toe to toe with tier 7 but why don’t the scores reflect that?

Also, new players to the game coming into WvW take one step in, get rushed by over 20-30 players, and leave. Do they come back? no. Is it fun for them? no.

We need to look at this tier situation. The math is most certainly not “fine as is.”

Then those players aren’t really into WvW getting rushed over by zergs happens in all tiers not just T8. If you can’t take getting rolled by a zerg then nothing will change how you feel about wvw that goes for every tier.

I gave you an objective look your opinion is obviously biased. What do you think Anet will do if you use common sense?

They will look at the data which will be more detailed then mos millenium they aren’t gonna have the whole dev team log into ET and see how wvw is there.

Lets say for arguments sake they log into your server to see how it is there they will get a FEEL for it. Then go back and do what? Compare with the data.

You only need to go 20 points in DA if you really want to run Venoms. Residual isn’t good enough to go all 30 points into DA.

You are running 1 venom spider if you proc all 5 shots at +50% duration that is 45 seconds of poison.

Edit: Wait shortbow is your primary weapon? Why are you running venoms again? You have choking gas.

If you want to go SB you want damage not condition build. You want the clusters to count since its a bit harder to land.

K I read this and I look at the matchups for ET which I assume is your server. I see the gap in points that you are talking about between tier 8 and tier 7. I see that so I agree there is a decent gap difference.

Then I look at your server history and ET got steamrolled pretty much in all your matchups until you hit tier 8.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/30/#history

08-15 December

HoD 121,208
GoM 387,903
ET 89,112

That is before the Kain train happened everything else before that ET was getting rolled.

The week before that

Anvil Rock 365,167
Eredon Terrace 80,617
GoM 148,487

After Kaineng in your tier you place

3rd in all your matchups with your best final PPT tally at

19-26 January matchup

SF 254,166
FC 179,492
ET 167,802

Looking at your server history you are were you should be.

SF peak rating is Rank 16th Tier 6

Devona’s gets the population influx you talk about and SF gets rolled. 15-22 December matchup.

They drop face GoM and HoD come in second then have same matchup the next week come in 3rd.
Since then they have been Tier 8 their first visit to tier 8 they came in second. Since then they have been in first.

12-19 januarty(not even a month ago)

The matchup was close between them and FC

SF 227,272
FC 212,693
ET 147,765

Since 19-26 January(still not even a month) they have won with a decent lead

Your post makes good points but looking at the history of tier 8 servers the numbers show something different.

Agricola.2817:

snip

The thing is what your asking for in variety alot of servers want the same thing after a few rounds fighting the same people. At the very least you want competitive matchups if you are going to be stuck fighting the same servers. This will be week 3 fighting IOJ and Devona rest. While you say you would have looked forward to the variety and facing DB and Maguuma the reality is most people on your server would have hated it after 2 days. DB and Maguuma would have really just been fighting each other. If mags or db would have dropped to fight you and another t8 server they would have hated because it would have been boring.

My server was 12th recently we had a exodus of people and we fell to T7 19th overall we have rose back to 13th and will probably be back at 12th after this week our only hiccup in getting back to 12th was the Kaineng train. Really you should just transfer to a server that more suits your needs.

While I understand the point being made it is better for the WvW community as whole to not reset everything.

You only have the choice of transfer, deal with it, or quit playing. Thats not troll thats truth. You can post here on the forums but its just not going to happen they aren’t going to change anything for 1 tier when they can satisfy 7 tiers.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Goorman.7916:

What do you think about when somebody says “World versus World”?
Well, my personal thought is “wasted space”.What do i mean? Just look at attached image.I marked places, that are wasted from pvp prospective.There are nothing important there worth fighting.So at least(that is my evaluation) one third of the map is wasted, this third is not going to be used for it’s primary goal: pvp.
What do you think?Do you agree that all this place is wasted?

I disagree.
As a thief, my map looks a little different.

+1 definitely +1 rofl

Ugh why not just use the search function educate your self. Seriously thief traits are self explanatory especially if you want MAX damage.

30 power, 30 crit, 10 points in trick you can anymore max damage than that. All zerker gear. I haven’t played all the other classes but I would assume that is max damage for all classes.

Because obviously going max damage isn’t going to be in shaman gear or clerics

Transfer? Why would you count on a shift in rankings to get matched up against servers that would steam roll you? Thats what would have happened if they do the proposed reset. You would have to fight Maguuma or DB basically a server that might have just moved up but was a bit over matched or happen to have kain in their tier. So they would have moved down to roll you guys over. It would have been a few servers down there doing this until things got sorted out again.

Example my server would have went from 15th to 2nd NA if they did the reset you think my server would have been happy getting rolled by SoS and JQ? Your people should have transferred if they really were all about WvW to a more WvW centric server. If not then they should transfer now and just pay the fee.

Not resetting benefits more of the WvW population than hurts it you can’t make a decision in a game with this many players that pleases everyone. Anet isn’t going to hand out free transfers to people in T8 not gonna happen so your people will have to transfer or stop playing or just deal and raise up from T8.

Would you really want a matchup fighing a server that you know is going to steam roll you?

I have to disagree Daecollo It depends on what your running as your other set. I run SB and between SB and Dancing dagger there is enough cripple and mobility to catch pretty much anyone sometimes I have trouble catching a ele but thats about it or a warhorn warrior occasionally.

Any good p/d thief can tell when the enemy is about to run. Most people in WvW leave when its to late anyway and they are about to die.

Umm why no shadow shot to close the gap? Its almost like your struggling to try and finish someone off because they are escaping and you heartseeker to catch up. I know your trying to land backstabs but you could maintain higher uptime if you just used shadow shot if they are melee then pop black powder.

Also precast steal black powder is good. You also have s/d as your other set but never use it infiltrator strike would save all the black powder heartseeker spam and allow you to kill some of these people much faster.

Its ok I guess I think alot of those kills came from people that haven’t faced d/p much in WvW

Maugetarr.6823:

MrForz.1953:

I’m not going to go by 36 ways.

You want a useful change? Force revelation from stealth when struck or taking damage. I don’t mind ANYTHING else as Thieves are fightable and good Thieves can get to bypass this change, it’s just that stealth as it is right now gets you to be forgiven of alot of errors you’d make.

Then they would have to have stealth break channeling moves and provide half a second of invulnerability to counteract the melee swing that we usually take while stealthing. If not, the thief would never be able to stealth as it would be popped out immediately.

This is spot on when you stealth you usually do so eating a hit of some kind

MMm Body shot causing weakness I LOVE IT!!!! Excellent!!! For a P/D thief like myself I would be all over Body Shot causing weakness

What Dee Jay said Lowell

Stiv.1820:

I don’t see any nerfs coming. Good players counter thieves and make for gereat fights. If you WvW and haven’t been pulled from at least 50% of your refuges then you are lucky. It didn’t get consistent until the last few weeks it seems. Maybe it’s just the new matchup.

Thieves are well and balanced assuming full knowledge of the game and a basic twitch skill level. People who complain don’t have the twitch or don’t understand mechanics, simple as that (assuming even gear/level). GW2 with it’s stun break system, active evades and mobile casting is the most twitch MMO I’ve ever played.

Yea I agree Stiv shadow refuge isn’t even safe anymore.

After some thought I see 33% damage reduction to mug if that.

I honestly really don’t see anymore nerfs coming our way people always prophet that we will be nerfed but last was 15 november and that was spvp mostly now that I looked back at the notes more.

I think we will see more tweaks to thief, more buffs.

DanH.5879:

so, what is the conclusion after 48 pages ??
i should see only thieves in wvw because they are so OP, maybe i am blind ?

There is no conclusion by opinion this is a place created to keep the redundant threads from popping up all over the thief forums. Very smart move.

You can see there is no right way in here.

You have people that say I don’t mind the burst just remove the stealth/limit it.

Then you have people that are fine with stealth but don’t like the burst.

Then the people that are fine with how things are.

How do you create something to keep all those parties happy? Impossible

Just watched part 2 now part 2 was pretty funny. Part 1 is meh but I liked part 2. You could tell that char thief was mad at the end he was spamming heartseeker so bad lol.

Its different I guess since you are running Rabid gear with carrion trinkets mixed in no points in acro I guess.

In your opinion your style takes more skill then the traditional wild bill but I have to disagree bill doesn’t run a stun breaker or shadow refuge. P/D isnt super fun to watch unless its like some kind of 1v4 you can pull off. Why Wild Bills videos are better than most P/D videos is because he doesn’t run shadow refuge he is running 2 venoms and SoS tht takes more skill imo since he has no get out jail cards.

Im sure he dies Im sure he has been baslisk 2 shotted before for entertainment he doesnt show those. 1v1 just isnt very entertaining.

Just my opinion though.

No balance changes

some fixes if the current cycle continues thieves havent been touched at all really its been pretty much small buffs since november 15th.

This thread is a prime example of the classes weaknesses when so many people think its OP. Daggerstorm is just so Meh now Dagger storm is really good for the cripple and to maybe take out a few enemies on the brink of being down.

Dee Jay.2460:

We all know you can Blind those attacks….but how do you use Infiltrator’s Arrow during a stomp?

It doesn’t make sense unless I’m missing something.

You use it before stomp on the downed player and activate stomp. So they will be blind when stomp is activated. Its not as reliable as say putting black powder down but it can help if you can’t switch to another weapon set at the time.

Lofat.2406:

Well that’s a bummer… I got a lot of good laughs from that. The most memorable moment to me was when the dude with the accent said “Poor little cheater, his mommy didn’t love him enough”

IKR

OP tried to make the case that she posted it just to get more views for her youtube page but obviously that wasn’t the case at all. It was good laughs though rofl.

wayneericgouin.9371:

If they aren’t overpowered, why is pvp filled with them? food for thought. they aren’t playing them because they’re pretty.

hot join?

The top team in QP is running a full Thief team. You are right we need a nerf.

yup what the others have said, attack that thing with melee and watch how fast a thief shadow steps away or cancels it.

OP needs to get organized with a group over voip. No organized group actually trying to win objectives is going to want a thief on a ram or siege over a warrior or a guardian.

The problem is people see enemy and turn into a bull and want to go kill. Those classes you named are good at distracting/annoying people and for some reason people love to try to kill those 3 classes. 1 thief or ele passed by a zerg and like 15 people will break off to try to kill it. Leaving the zerg to get steam rolled by the opposing zerg that now has more numbers while 15 people chase a ele, thief, or mesmer around.

From my experience there have always been alot of mesmers and ele’s. Its just that alot of ele’s put the staff in the inventory and roll d/d. My first character was a ele when the game came out and he is still level 47. Mesmers always see them portal was popular early anyway.

I come across guardians, warriors and rangers the most from what I have seen.

Liewec.2896:

deathblossom/caltrop builds are the only thing i have an issue with,
everyone getting 20 AoE stacks of bleed from someone whos invisible or unattackable is pretty ridiculous lol.

Seriously don’t stand in the circle. If the thief drops them on you move out of the caltrops. The problem I always see is thief drops cals person leaves circle were the caltrops are thief stands around his caltrops because thats smart to do. Person runs back into caltrops to kill thief rofl.

I run condi build thief with P/D and I don’t even run caltrops anymore because most people are smart enough now to not stand in them anymore.

Rofl someone tell Triggerless he is is becoming famous lol. First the naked video now this one someone posts in the thief forums lol.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/This-is-just-too-much/first#post1366741

The OP is filled with drama here.

Friends will miss me, Anet doesn’t care about me, Transfer fee is reason for me to stop playing, Anet will lose me as a customer. Me makes thread about me being uninformed and possibly leaving the game so people can discuss me leaving the game (terribly disguised as a thread about transfer fee)

Makes thread about taking a month long break from the game.

Comes back finds guild left game free transfers ended.

Guesting and end of free transfers announced here: January 16th
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guesting-is-coming/

Now its Anets fault rofl cause you didn’t go to the website, the wiki, reddit.

Riiight

Just ask ask friends for gold convert to gems transfer.

1800 gems is fine they most have jumped to a high pop server. The price depends on server population.

True true I know what he is trying to do. My computer is currently in the shop so I can’t actually play at the momentn have to do something on my little net book.

Columba.9730:

100% crit, 16k health, 3k armor and 2800 attack.

These numbers aren’t possible in order to get 3k armor he has to be in all Knights gear head to toe with the exception of 1 rampager trinket to help with crit chance. Then your only getting to 79.85% lets round up for fun to 80% crit chance. With 1.98 crit damage, health is 10,805 health. This is 30/30/0/0/10 since you said he didnt spec into stealth which means he has no points in the toughness tree at all.

This is factored with runes of the eagle(165 precision,8%crit damage) and I gave a generous 240 precision from foods(maintenance oils and butternut squash).

With sigil of accuracy your looking at 85% crit chance and if he gets 25 stacks on a sigil of perception we are looking at about 97% chance to crit. All of this with 10,805 health.

Columba.9730:

I’m sorry, but since culling provides perma stealth, thieves can boost other stats/traits. a thief in our guild claims that he can stay perma stealthed, has 100% crit, 16k health, 3k armor and 2800 attack. he agrees that he can pretty much get into a full group and take out an enemy, escaping unscathed. so yes, culling allows thieves to get full stealth without speccing for it.

I’m willing to bet most of his targets are underleveled, other thieves, or whatever he feels is the softest target there is. He probably gets in downs someone and probably gets no stomp.

really so he doesn’t have 15 points in shadow arts? Gotta be running d/p, blinding powder, shadow refuge, maybe smoke screen.

The weapons set that gives you the most uptime on stealth is d/p if he isnt running that then he isn’t this perma stealth build you speak of.

To do what you claim he has to trait for stealth which is the shadow arts tree there is no way to keep it up without traiting into shadow arts for infusion of shadow.

What is running some 30/30/0/10 build or maybe its 30/30/0/0/10 rofl totally optimal and not 1 trick at all.

A glass ele can do the same thing you know that right go in kill someone and leave. Want a video of that? I can grab it easily as well as other classes going in killing someone in a group and leaving or killing more than 1 person in a group and leaving.

Glass cannons purpose is to burst someone down and leave. Who specs glass and tries to fight a full group? I’m assuming full group is 5.

Oozo.7856:

MaximeP.7524:

Thanks to all of you guys confirming that I’m not gone crazy recently.

Let’s pray Anet will hear our despair and return(again) to the original system…

They heard our complaints and concerns about the trial in December and their decision to use that culling system now. I’m thinking they don’t care.

They said this a first part of the culling fix not the full fix to culling the next I’m guessing major part of culling is suppose to be in the next update

Red Falcon.8257:

oZii.2864:

The only thief specific nerf I am aware of that is different in sPvP is daze on tactical strike when you use a sigil of paralyzation. Other than that isn’t crit damage calculated different in sPvP which is not specific to just thieves.

How about 33% damage to CnD? That is a big nerf that’s PvP-only, CnD still hits for 5-6k in WvW.

Took me a minute to dig that up

I wasn’t playing thief when those changes came in started a bit after. I see it tactical strike damage increased 10% in all modes including wvw. Daze decreased to 1.5 in spvp only.

Cluster bomb reduced by 15% pvp only

Cloak and dagger reduced by 33% pvp only.

Even if they brought those changes over to WvW people would still complain because some people can’t chose what to complain about 1 second its stealth the next its damage. I run P/D so direct damage wouldn’t really bother me much if they brought it over to wvw. 50% reduction to the damage mug does and people will still complain I bet then more glass cannon thieves would run haste and signet of power.

Looking at those patch notes though from november 15th and what has happened almost 4 months later with no more nerfs then I think Anet is fine with where the thief is honestly. When they were asked at the livestream about 2 weeks ago they only said they were watching the bunker elementalists at the moment and mesmer portal. Threads like seem more like its just a place to vent.

Kasama.8941:

The fact that the Mesmer is visible allows you to react to something, as opposite to a Thief thats invisible for the majority of a fight, mostly thanks to Cloak and Dagger. The Mesmer uses stealth in the way it is suppose to be used; to change positioning while avoiding damage, for a short duration. Clones do not make Mesmer invisible in any way. There are several ways to find a Mesmer easily; a lot of Mesmers make the mistake of moving around too much, you can use “call target” on the Mesmer if you are in a party, the clones auto attack is much slower then the Mesmers, the Mesmer very often is the one who is standing the farthest away from you, once you’ve found a Mesmer he has limited ways of losing track of you again (three stealth skills and two teleportation skills) and he moves slowly, clones die very easily to AoE attacks. Notice how most of these examples talks about something that is visible, while the counter attack against a Thief basically bears down to; “try and guess”.

The Mesmer being slow is what makes all the difference when it comes to stealth, because it allows you to predict where the Memser is going to come out of stealth, as opposite to a Thief that has so much speed and movement, it is next to impossible to predict a pattern. And when the Thief does go out of stealth, you will have already been dealt damage before you can react, thanks to the burst from stealth skills. 3 seconds later, the Thief is back in stealth again. Opposite to Mesmers, the Thief also gets several stealth bonuses from traits, like condition removal, regeneration, and even more speed. The Mesmer has one trait that improves stealth. Have you ever tried running away from a player with a Mesmer, while using stealth? If you haven’t, I can tell you that it doesn’t make any difference at all, because your are too slow to outrun your foe, and you have too little stealth to lose track of your foe. Meanwhile, all the Thief has to do is place down Shadow Refuge (as in one utility skill), and wait until he has 10+ seconds of stealth. Then he can go wherever he wants to, while having swiftness and several shadowstep skills to help him.

All professions have an easy way to escape. The Ranger can also use Swoop, Monarch’s Leap+Hornet Sting, and Call of the Wild. The Warrior can use Rush, Whirlwind Attack, Savage Leap, and Charge. The Necromancer has Spectral Walk and Death Shroud…and so on. But the Thief is still the best profession when it comes to movement, with next to permanent swiftness, several shadowstep skills, and movement skills like Roll for Initiative. Which is fine on its own. The problem comes when you add next to permanent stealth and incredible burst damage on top.

Well the Stealth is main part of the theif class. You receive those same benefits from the main part of your class stealth is just extra. You can get might on shatter, invulnerability, remove condition on shatter and remove condition on heal (actually anyone can get this with a food) random condition from clones killed, confusion from clones killed, cripple from clones killed, more damage for each active clone, move faster for each active clone etc.

Notice the theme is clones you also have the most stun breaks in the game which are really good and useful. Notice thieves don’t have clones so I cant compare them because they aren’t the same class. You can’t compare classes like that.

You get 1200m range access pretty easily you have spells (phantasms) that basically auto cast for you almost every 6 seconds and do alot of damage (berserker) really. Come on man! At a fight starting out at 1200m range against a target that you can see you can have so many clones out that you almost die trying to get to the real mesmer. I’m not complaining about mesmers as that was my first class level 80 with a legendary and all. Now I play thief level 80 with a legendary on it also. You can’t compare thieves and mesmers its different.

I wish I had access to stability, a invulnerable spell, good aoe damage, protection, etc. I don’t have access to those.

Also a mesmer has access to 5 ways to go invisible Blink, Mass invis, The prestige, Veil, and the trait for invis at 25% health. Nobody runs that trait that I know of so lets say 4 instead of just the 3 you listed.

Lets use a typical backstab thief on his hotbar he probably has Cloak and Dagger, and either refuge or Blinding powder. 2 skills but he could have 3. Now this should pretty much show you that you can’t compare the 2 in a vacuum like you did.

Columba.9730:

why do you think it’s fair for one class to dominate in wvw?

The bold totally shows your intent.

Thieves in no way shape or form dominate WvW but please give me a valid argument otherwise that they dominate in WvW rofl.

No one class dominates in WvW remember objectives=ppt PPT=Win. Kills=Badges or some other crappy loot like resin or claws.

If I had to chose between a warrior, guardian, ranger, thief to put on a ram during siege time the thief is the last class I would prefer on the ram.

Well this guy seems upset those fights could have gone a totally different way if he missed 1 cloak and dagger. I am sure he has died to fighting more than 1 person by missing a cloak and dagger but who would watch that? I know you wont read this but I wanted to reply cause its a forum.