Showing Posts For phys.7689:

The High Cost of Fashion

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Will you still be able to earn transmutation stones through stuff like map completion and convert them to charges, or will the gem store be the ONLY place to get these charges?

The charge system is a little confusing. Will it still be one charge per armor piece or will some pieces cost multiple charges?

unknown how obtaining charges will change.

Currently it appears to be one charge per piece whenever you change it.

Ah, okay. Also, it seems there will no longer be a difference between lvl 1-79 transmutations and lvl 80 transmutations. So it’ll all be charges, no matter the level, correct?

the old 1-79 stones will convert to 3 stones to 1 charge the level 80 crystals will convert 1 to 1.
it will be one size fits all after that.

The High Cost of Fashion

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Will you still be able to earn transmutation stones through stuff like map completion and convert them to charges, or will the gem store be the ONLY place to get these charges?

The charge system is a little confusing. Will it still be one charge per armor piece or will some pieces cost multiple charges?

unknown how obtaining charges will change.

Currently it appears to be one charge per piece whenever you change it.

We need more things to jump on

in PvP

Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

snip.

I hear you. I think the things we’re doing to broaden the base will help with queue times. Won’t get into the specifics of balance though, not here anyways.

A Whack-a-Mole game, but instead called ‘Whack-an-OP’ class.

You had me until you said razors.

A flexible, intuitive, non intrusive, fast Dueling system (OUTSIDE arenas and even the lobby).

Definitely! I’d also like to see just some huge pit where it’s FFA.

Jumping Puzzles, Dueling, Moa Races(gambling in general), Zephyr Style Races.

I keep pushing for some gambling. I’d be up a lot of gold if we were betting during those bonus weekend matches. Never bet against the mesmer.

GAMBLINS! betting on self or team, or even just being able to have a winner take all pot, would add a little more excitement to the fights.

Duels would be pretty good

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

They have metrics for where GOLD comes from in this game. This is literally to keep the economy in the same position it is at now.

If they have and if this metric has told them that the most gold is aquired through events, they are simply wrong.

They have all the Numbers, but since what they do, to address what their numbers tells them hurts what you do…. THEY are wrong??? hahahahahaha

Most self-serving argument…. ever!!!

What is the reason of nerfing the event rewards? Did the players got too much gold from it? Please, if they want to lower the goldincome, they should have started with the TP flippers and the dungeons. Farming events to get the gold is the most stupid thing I could think about simply because the current event rewards are near zero. So why nerf eventloot again? It will hardly have any impact.

The problem is, that the risk/reward for doing Champ Trains is out of whack.
too little risk as newbies run around pressing the w key to follow… then the 1 key to auto attack.. and an occasional dodge. Too much reward for the lack of risk from champion bags + loot + event reward.

Everyone says " the rewards for doing events suck as it is." I keep asking why is it that from the Moment I log in… all I read on map chat is.." Where is the championn train?" " Is there a Champion train?" or " Some people are taking the Champions out of yturn " and they would say the names..One wonders if some were maybe taking down the names and Putting them on a " do not help " list or something?

" Jo Shmo is taking the Champ troll out of turn… guys…remember that."

The entitled attitude may also have something to do with it. Some people seem to feel that ONLY the Champion Train owns all the Champions… they actually try and shame players for fighting the Champs out of turn." so and so is greedy taking the troll by himself… he peobably doesn’t Like to share in RL either." I am serious… people on the Champ train say these things.

So yes, I think anything the devs do to nerf the champ train is a good idea. The fact that it " may have unintended consequences" is no argument for doing nothing. Almost everything has unintended consequences.

champ trains arent about doing events, thats just a bonus. Champ trains are about killing champions. Look at the frost gorge champion train which often actively avoids doing event champions, because they scale up higher, and require more communication.

Also, while its all good to say champion trains are out of wack, realize that the most hardcore champ train farmer, essentially makes less or equal to the average TP merchant.

So by while making champ trains less profitable may make people do something else, what else would they do? Events? they are nerfing events too. And then you have to ask yourself what game play feels rewarding in any way? and you get not much. PVE has the worst reward for actually playing the game as intended. In WvW you gain rank, and prestige, badges of honor, drops the more objectives you take/people you kill. In SPVP now, you will unlock levels, gold, skins, and unique skins by participating in matches.
PVE? grind the easiest/most repetitive content as often as possible for average reward, or play the TP for reward based on your business acumen. While champ train wasnt the best thing in the world, nerfing all champion drops, and event rewards is doing nothing to make PVE feel rewarding or progressive.

[Suggestion] Unbind crafting materials

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

the whole reason those items exist is so that there is a small portion of getting ascended that is not circumvented via gold.

when they unbind them, that will no longer be the case, and a great many things will serve little purpose again

TP Addict needs help...

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Send me your gold and start over from scratch.

Nothing like fresh beginnings.

I took a break once for like 3 months after release of Dragon Bash (I got sick of all that quaggan hype and then they released “Smash the dragon” thing, I was just like… omg, that’s it, it gets too childish now… Just before a break I’ve thrown all gold I had in rares to the mystic forge, got nothing back – I have a spreadsheet for MF, I know the amount of rares was not enough to even get close of a chance getting a precursor (I dont rely on luck, only on math and statistics), but heck that was the only time I’ve done something just to see will I get lucky and ended up wasting all my money and taking a break – Id stay and finish the legendary if get a precursor for sure.

Now I regret I took a break because I’ve missed some items that will never get again and would love to get. I’ve missed some Living Stories that after watching few videos I can say were fun to do. And for the most of all I’ve missed achievements and that will just stay in my head for ever.

[i]…Big post post that is correct in every word almost…[i]

His situation is closer to being being in the corporate sector making money, and being disatisfied because its no fun, and he is barely playing the game called life. But every time he tries to do some other job, he is reminded how much more money he makes working in the dull corporate world.

After reading all the feedback I am wondering is word addict not too strong in that case. Anyway… I got life. I have a full time job which takes pretty much about 200-250h a month of my time, I sleep normally (times when I was addicted to L2 and played almost 130h a week are over), as I said “I have spent like 80% of last year sitting in Rata Sum and the airship [b]of my ingame time.[b]”

Its not that GW takes too much time out of my life, its TP takes too much time of my gw playtime. Its bad to hear all those sarcasm comments about going to a psychiatrist or so but oh well… I do Living Stories, I like them, I love new achievements, hate missing out on them, I like gettin new skins (even tho Im not rly using most of them). The main thing would be to find something that will (as said) make me feel rewarded for the time I’ve spent.

Anyway thanks all for the feedback, some of it gave me a lot of imput about why do I actually feel like playing TP all the time instead of the game, maybe realising that will help a bit

yeah i was making an analogy, i meant essentially most of your guild wars “life” was being used by playing the corporate “tp” boring way.

hopefully they add more ways to feel rewarded that dont use money. Even though arent in to PVP im guessing, the new progressions there give a little bit of hope(if im not misunderstanding them)

Hopefully they make some similar types of reward systems tied to PVE. Perhaps they will also have these area specific skins in PVE for completing dynamic events (hopefully more credit for different events)

Feedback/Questions: Town clothes, Costumes, & Combat

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

And just because you and your friends and seven people you’ve met on the internet think it’s a non-issue undeserving of #20 on the list doesn’t mean it’s a non-issue undeserving of #20 on the list. If anything, considering the game is based around cosmetics, I would say that something involving cosmetics is deserving of some kind of priority…

I don’t have ANY PREFERENCE where it falls on the list. I am observing their behavior and that’s all.~

  • They are treating town clothes customers pretty shoddily.
  • They do know EXACTLY how many people buy town-clothes as both an absolute number and as a fraction of active player-base.

I’m inclined to believe there is a correlation between those two things. But it could just be some middle manager somewhere doesn’t like town clothes and decided to toss those players in a dumpster. But I tend to believe that an enterprise that makes a hundred million dollars a year has a little more mercenary outlook than that.

problem i have with this thinking is, that with a better design paradigm, and allocation of resources, they can make money and make players happy.

Instead of taking a Disatisfy one group of players make other players happy, they should have created a system that would satisfy both players, even if its something they have to work towards.

In this case as well, its not like some others, in that it has direct negative cost associated with it beyond the intangibles.
They have to refund money, which costs them customer service time, CC transaction charges, and removes revenue. People can make a valid claim to return every single item.
Then on top of that they are alienating a lot of players who actively use the gem store and are loose with their money.’
Add to that they are once again showing a very bad method of evolving the game without alienating a group in their playerbase.

This is why i think they really needed to discuss and think about this issue with the fractal reset. The same problem keeps coming up. We want to evolve content, but how do we deal with the players who have invested into the systems. Once again they deal with them by saying im sorry but i think this is for everyone elses benefit (which once again is yet to be proven) Instead of creating solutions that grandfather/consider old people, they basically just shaft them.

Once in a blue moon, this should happen, but its becoming fairly consistent. I am all for evolution, and fixing things and not getting held back by the past, but it doesnt seem like they are trying very hard to bring old users into their new systems. I mean builds changing is acceptable, but lierally reducing the functionality of items that you already sold to players? Thats a bad deal in any business. The closest i can think of is new operating systems, but that gates you from new things, it doesnt actually stop you from using it how you used it in the past.

TP Addict needs help...

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

One quick question, are you addicted to other forms of gambling? There’s a program for it, it sounds like you are looking for help.

hes not really gambling, its just way more effecient. You can do no gambling at all and make money on the TP, consistently and without fail. The only question is how much you will make. You can make money by selling at certain times and buying at certain times. You can make money taking advantage of inconsistencies in crafting.

Now if you do these safe ways, your top end isnt as great, you may only make like 10-12 gold an hour, and maybe 8 gold on bad days. But thats on par with the best farms in the game, and blows interesting/challenging play out of the water.

Funny, I am trying to assist the OP and you are giving reasons why he should still “play the ponies”. The TP, in all of its forms, is speculative. That means it’s an odds based outcome where there are winners and losers and rarely people who break even. If that’s not gambling (per Merriam Webster):

: to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things

: to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet

: to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something

then I must not understand the English language very well.

Thats what people think but its just not true.
I have made money on the TP at various points in the game doing things with less risk than doing a dungeon.
for example, times when salvaging basic items, then crafting them can sell INSTANTLY to lowest buyer for more money than materials cost. the gain only goes up when you salvage a rare item
Placing a bid order that you know will get filled at a certain time of day and sell at another.
Every day for example, an item may fluctuate between say 1.8 and 2.6 silver. You place a buy order at 1.7 and you sell at 2.4. no gamble you will make money just off the fluctuations.
Some times on some items, you can make money turning teir 5 items into teir 6 items.
Various crafting recipes

Point is, gambling implies risk. There are styles of TP playing that involve no risk, i assume he is in the no risk category, because it seems he makes about 8-10 gold an hour. Also he said hes staring at spreadsheets, which is usually the consistent data and information on current values of items.

See by taking the gambling tack, you are missing the point, he knows EXACTLY how much he would make on average playing the TP, its fairly consistent. For him gambling is playing PVE, where the returns are way more random, and in usually less money. So you wont solve his additiction with gamblers groups, he is in this situation because the TP is the sure thing, its the most effecient way to play the game.

The only way he can break his addiction is by letting go of gold as a purpose, and chase effeciency in fun.

TP includes gambling, but it also includes general business/trade and middlemaning. There are ways to play the TP which dont really amount to gambling at all.

His situation is closer to being being in the corporate sector making money, and being disatisfied because its no fun, and he is barely playing the game called life. But every time he tries to do some other job, he is reminded how much more money he makes working in the dull corporate world.

And yeah unfortunately thats how the reward systems of GW2 currently work. Best gold is TP(business), followed by repetive farming (manufacturing) any activity that is actually fun/challenging doesnt give you much reward effeciency, or even unique rewards other than the joy of doing the task.

(edited by phys.7689)

Still waiting on the "big" news

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Im hoping facilitating friendly play will be about making PVE open world matter more, and possibly a help player system?
I dunno, the title seems super crappy, but how can they have 3 blog posts if its not large and pretty game changing? guess we ll see.

Still waiting on the "big" news

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Nor will you be getting new missions since this is a feature patch, not a content patch. That was made clear a long time ago.

Can you point out where that was posted? I’m curious because the two interviews I read both said that Anet’s “feature” patch was going to be similar to what we see in a typical patch in other MMO’s.

If you look at other MMO’s like WoW, their latest patch added 4 new dungeons, a new raid, 2 new zones, balance, LFG changes, and a host of other smaller things.

If you compare that to this “feature” patch, we got all the smaller things, but the main parts haven’t been included. So if it was later changed that this won’t be like other MMO’s patches, can you point me to that interview?

i cant find it but i think colin johanson said it. Its equal to the feature updates you might find in a regular mmo, not an expansion.
the type of updates you see like every 3 to 6 months that add primarily features, not so much content.

TP Addict needs help...

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

One quick question, are you addicted to other forms of gambling? There’s a program for it, it sounds like you are looking for help.

hes not really gambling, its just way more effecient. You can do no gambling at all and make money on the TP, consistently and without fail. The only question is how much you will make. You can make money by selling at certain times and buying at certain times. You can make money taking advantage of inconsistencies in crafting.

Now if you do these safe ways, your top end isnt as great, you may only make like 10-12 gold an hour, and maybe 8 gold on bad days. But thats on par with the best farms in the game, and blows interesting/challenging play out of the water.

TP Addict needs help...

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Hey everyone. As many of us Im addicted to trading post. I have spent like 80% of last year sitting in Rata Sum and the airship of my ingame time. I just cant help it, I hoard items, a lot of items and then Im not using them at all. I got no legendary and I dont even have tousands of gold. All gold I earn I turn into materials and I just… Cant stop doing it. I see a lot of people saying about amazing 10g per hour from doing something else. I’ve never reached that point when trying so I am asking for help now.

I got myself maxed Magic Find (like it wasn’t enough I farmed over 1,5kk of luck above that just in case they increase it anytime or let us use it for something else – screeny) but it doesn’t help playing trading post. Question is – is there any way I can use that to get that 8-10g per hour simply playing the game instead of trading post?

There is less and less mobs droping loot from the events, even in fractals I think I got like 2 greens last night over the entire run from mobs, all other was from chests. I’d love the fact of farming mobs for materials but that is not efficient – DR hitting after like 25 minutes of doing same circle and even with maxed mf you dont get that many materials.

I just… Im just looking for something in guild wars that will let me feel like Im being rewarded. I really REALLY need to stop wasting my time sitting on the front of the NPC, with loads of spreadsheets on the other screen to fill >.<

I dont like dungeons farming, I think it would be just the same as TP farming after a while, I’d hate it so much and would be doing it only for profit.

Thanks for any advices.

sorry man, you will always get that same feeling, that the time you spent would be more effeciently spent playing the TP. It has been, and will continue to be, the best source of earning wealth.

The only way to free yourself is to decide for yourself that money isnt the most important thing in the game. The game is probably the most fun if you try to by and large ignore the TP. Only problem is, the game hasnt built a lot of goals that arent gold based.

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

the people who play tp want money to remain in their hands, it increases their buying power. By reducing my effectiveness to earn money via champ training numbskullery, it increases the power of their wealth. Sure, they make less because I have less money overall, but its more about what their money can buy from me, and the difference in earning potential between my casual play, and their high end play.

None of the changes really benefit the game in terms of making me feel like doing content though, so its a pretty big fail in my eyes.

TP barons take my money

Fixed that for you.

Stop acting like a few copper reductions from event/champ loot is the end of the game.

Stop doing the pathetically sad champ train work simulator, and play and enjoy the game.

Walking around in a circle, showing 0% player skill, then pressing F to loot, is not content or enjoyment. Yes, I just said it isn’t enjoyment for EVERYONE, because no one truly enjoys it.

If all this game is to you is a work simulator, I’ll help you here by saying there are other games out there you’ll probably enjoy. Riding the champ train all day every day is about 0.1% of what the game offers.

You misinterpret me, i dabble in whatever works, i sometimes play tp, sometimes provide goods and sometimes champ train.
Heck if it was just about the champ train i would say eh well. But they are reducing event rewards which is already horribly under rewarded system. They essentially just cut earnings from ALL normal play.
because people get champ bags doing all sorts of content, on top of that they reduce event profit.

However, If you are rich, people having less money is good.

I dont dislike TP baroning because they are rich, i dislike it because the game reward systems are too based around the economic style of the Items team, and not enough about game design.

the problem is the things the game are the best at, dynamic events, open world content, instances, etc, are not properly rewarded, or have weak incentives (not just talking about gold here) And while the pittance of copper from events isnt much, its really sad to see events get even less incentive for completion.

Its sad to see that common players who primarily kill stuff will have less available money, and also make less money from sales, (because the bulk of day to day materials are collected by all players) Dudes in the Tp forum even have graphs and equations showing how prices for day to day farmable goods will drop with peoples wealth.
So who wins? The people who dont earn based on drops. The gap between regular play wealth and tp mastery wealth grows, and that benefits no one but TP players. Playing the game feels less rewarding, and i have to run merchant based activities more when i want to make money, which i find boring.

Hopefully the last blogs have something built in that will actually foster some type of progression or reward systems that work to incentivize people to do more interesting activities, but im not too hopeful.

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

Yeah, I do not like this at all either. I have not done many dungeons and I do events all over various maps, I like getting champ bags for the cash in them. It may not be much or the best but now it’s being nerfed. I do not agree w/the logic either. But many want these nerfs and they are getting their way. Go to the TP forum and it’s all high-fives and bro hugs w/the economist. Anet really thinks this is a good idea and I do not think that my or anyone else’s opinion will be considered in this matter. The rewards in the game have been Meh for a long time and now more of the same.

Hey, too bad dungeon folks if they nerf your bags too, get over it. Hey WvW folks that keep lord’s bag has no gold, sorry. It’s win-win; you did not really need the coin; there’s mats in the bag, sell them. You wanted cash for mats, er too bad, sell the blues & greens and that’s yr money and sell the other mats too, more money. But why do ya need money? They will tell you on the TP forum that there is NO INFLATION, none, it’s not there. Just try to open a thread on Inflation, you will be flamed into the Mists.

I do not know why this thread is even open.

the people who play tp want money to remain in their hands, it increases their buying power. By reducing the effectiveness of the average man to earn money, it increases the power of their wealth. Sure, they make less because there is less money overall, but its more about what their money can buy, and the difference in earning potential between casual play, and their high end play.

None of the changes really benefit the game in terms of making players feel like doing content though, so its a pretty big fail in my eyes.

Score one for the TP barons

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

Event and Champion Loot

With the changes we’re making that remove some of the systems that take gold out of the economy, we need to make sure the economy remains balanced in terms of gold input as well. We’ll be reducing the amount of raw gold that comes out of champion loot bags and events in an effort to keep the economy balanced and spread out player activity a bit.

I read this as major events (ie Maw) as well as champs. Right now the playstyle has become more about farming champs and bosses from events than exploring and doing normal DEs (Vs Boss chest events) on the rest of the maps. If you decrease the incentive to play only champs and boss events then maybe, just maybe, players would actually play in the other 90% of the game the devs created.

Maps empty of players discourages players on those maps and creates the illusion that nobody plays.

Or are you suggesting that players are now so trained to do only champ trains and boss events that it wouldn’t even occur to them to explore and see if something better exists or would earn them just as much while being different.

except, the activity you are talking about wont earn them jack. Events have only ever been profitable by scaling up the amount of enemies, which in order to be profitable also requires a place where everyones gathered in the same place and not spread out.
To really fix the event systems so that people have reasons to play them, they need to alter the whole structure and introduce new reward systems over all. Reducing the money earned from in game sources only reduces the earning power of people overall.

Yeah, its inflation, but it was kind of around the point where people felt they could make money for the things they needed. now the difference between the richest and the poorest will only grow more, and no activity besides dungeon running will feel worthwhile.

However, dungeon running will probably get nerfed right after, so ehhh

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

The problem with new content, and new land to explore is that we’d grind it out in a week, figure out that best stuff to kill, and then go back to complaining about how bored we are, and why isn’t anet expanding the game already. We don’t use up 80% of the map as it is, why should they open up more of it, just for us to ignore it after we’re done with it.

Actually i just about did it all.
Some of it was pretty good.

Problem is not that they are trying to nerf gold earning, the problem is they are discouraging events more than they have been. The game needs to totally rework the way the incentize content, and actually step away from gold wars. But this change is essentially an across the board nerf to everyones gold earning potential, while the goals are still gold based. Which means more grinding.

Instead of nerfing events, they should be working on ways to make events more valuable. well, maybe they got an ace up their sleeve in fostering helpful play. But honestly, i really dont think it will.

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

eh well whatever, i already got 80 on every class and i dont play that much anyhow. guess it wont effect me much.
On to player generated content games.

Feedback/Questions: The Wardrobe System

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phys.7689

Sure, I could write a system that is 100% player friendly and costs nothing – but I know that this is one for the things ArenaNet funds employee salaries with, and I don’t expect them to give that up entirely just because I want it all for free forever.

This incarnation of a wardrobe will NOT let you change willy-nilly at will for free forever. But it WILL let you do so more cheaply with more options than it has in the past.

If you want to push for more, fine. Just realize that content requires income and there comes a point where slashing their revenue is slashing your own prospects for enjoyment.

nike, listen to me for a second.

in an unlock system, with the same cost for unlock that you now have for changing. Do you think Stones would be more valuable, or less valuable.

where do you think you will use more stones throughout the life of the game.

my premise is very simple, i believe you, and 90% of players will spend MORE stones overall throughout the life of the game, if they pay to unlock for the account, than if they pay to change. Keep in mind that high end gear is account bound now.

I think in an unlock system you will work toward unlocking every single skin you like, EVEN if its not as cool as your favorite skin. In the current system you will only pay for whatever your current favorite skin is.

What is really going to increase thier profits more?

I have done probably 80 transmutation across 8 charachters in a year and a half. with unlocks i would probably have done at the very least twice that. I would probably have done way more.

Not all people are completionists. Most just like a few sets and keep switching between them (like me). Anet has decided to target these players as they probably are the majority – more profit.

maybe, i think thats what they are gambling on. But i think there a re lot more people who will just make/carry extras, or wont bother at all. Could be wrong, we ll probably never know though, because they will only enact one system.

I think google, mcdonalds, old navy, h and m make more money overall than versace

point is i think they make more money appealing to a greater audience, than they would lose on a few people. But hey i could be wrong, maybe most people are more like you.

at this point im now more concerned with the grinding increase it seems they have planned.

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

nerfing events and nerfing champ train at the same time wont promote spreading out. I dont think they need to give gold for everything, but events already needed to be more rewarding.
in fact event rewards in general need a pretty big overhual, if they want to spread people out, and not in the direct nerfing or even buffing way

Again, ANet built up too much hype...

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phys.7689

So someone heard about anet adding new content and features in the next updates, saying that they’re not sure about how to deliver this content “worth of an expansion”, if in the gemstore/ in game/paid box/LS; then you hear about some relevant quality of live features and improvements coming our way and everyone immediately thought about a boxed expansion – magically appearing out of nowhere? Like, classes and zones and weapons and hell knows what else? Help me understand. What did you want from this patch?
No, I refuse to believe people could’ve been so dense. I have a higher opinion of the humans.
I can’t help but enjoy these good improvements to my in-game quality of life and leave you to your whining, I guess.

well i knew they wouldnt be like expansion stuff, but i think at this time in the games life, what they needed was expansion stuff. I know it will probably be a long time before we see that type of content.

I think the best that people may have been hoping for is additional weapons for classes. But this patch doesnt surprise me at all, and i thought it would mostly good, till i read most of the current blog which is vague and makes it see, like overal methods of earning gold/items from events will be lowered. And Zommoros changes which i honestly think means less promotion of items.
If i had to guess, less chance for item promotion, and probably some reworked teir promotion returns, which will lead to a net nerf.

since the game was already pretty bad in terms of reward and item/gold grind that change sounds worrisome

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

looks like this is the gold wars 2 pay cut announcement.
Essentially, every thing that makes money, or creates desireable items is going to do less so.
For china!

sounds really bad

Feedback: Event loot nerfed

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phys.7689

I’ve always thought that receiving 2-3 silver for completing an event or opening a champ bag was negligible since I’m going to spend much more than that in WP and repair costs. Are we really fretting over receiving 2 silver instead of 3 silver? How does such a minute difference make such a huge difference in your wallet? It’s not the raw silver that you receive from event and champ bags that makes you money, that just barely pays your WP fees. It’s the selling of the loot itself that makes you money and they aren’t nerfing the loot. The amount of money you make in champ trains will not change whatsoever.

for champ train its a sizable and consistent amount.
for events it wasnt big enough to begin with, and people have virtually no reason to do events even at the current cost.

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phys.7689

Ahhhh so thats why they took away the minimal armor costs, so they could justify reducing rewards.
uhhhh kind of bad move here. Its not like content felt that rewarding to most people. Especially events, events feel pretty worthless right now, i cant imagine making them feel less profitable is a good look.

I think if they want to decrease gold earning, they should increase reward. I can only imagine they are nerfing returns from zommoros as well. and he wasnt even giving good returns…

kitten homey

Again, ANet built up too much hype...

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phys.7689

Anet tends to have a problem matching their enthusiasm to what they are actually delivering, but i guess its the job of marketing to make things seem exciting.

The big deal changes are
new traits
sigil /rune
and the wardrobe(though its not going to be that big as is)

Its still a really good strong update. The main problem is its not really the major thing they have to deal with right now. The number one problem players are having is lack of new things to do in game.

So what they really want is like new dungeons, zones skills, traits, stories, etc.
of those this only gives us traits.

I think anet does a good job, but i think they forgot that eventually, no matter what you got to give people new content. While fixing old stuff is cool, its honestly not going to compare to having new things to do for most players.

I know LS was supposed to kind of be the solution for this, but many of the releases jsut didnt give you that feeling. And since the vast majority was temporary, returning players feel like nothing has changed.

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phys.7689

Considering what I pay now to shift an appearance (one transmute crystal) HELL YES I prefer the new cost of doing business.

huh, i thought you kept all the skins in your vault, ohh you mean like low level skins, not gemstore skins, or LS skins.

yeah if you were holding on to a modlinir dagger or something that was level 20, then you may as well destroy it in the new system.

Oh I have a dozen-or-so semi-rare exotics from champ bags that I’m going to equip (to place a copy in the wardrobe) and then immediately salvage come patch day. I already sold off the spare Bonnetti’s Rapier I had laying around. I have HUNDREDS of transmutation stones that currently do nothing for my 80s that will make up the difference for a long, long time, as I am fairly careful/methodical about changing my look. I will have all the options I have now, and more, and bank space. There is no part of this change that isn’t win for me now, in the mid-term, and the long-term.

Ah yes, people will save inventory on gear they would have had to transmute to use regardless, BUT anet isnt going to make any more money of you than they would in an unlock system. Its going to be the same.
So for nike, maybe lilith they make same money, but for physic jah roots, etc they make more money.

Still seems like a win win situation to me.

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phys.7689

Sure, I could write a system that is 100% player friendly and costs nothing – but I know that this is one for the things ArenaNet funds employee salaries with, and I don’t expect them to give that up entirely just because I want it all for free forever.

This incarnation of a wardrobe will NOT let you change willy-nilly at will for free forever. But it WILL let you do so more cheaply with more options than it has in the past.

If you want to push for more, fine. Just realize that content requires income and there comes a point where slashing their revenue is slashing your own prospects for enjoyment.

nike, listen to me for a second.

in an unlock system, with the same cost for unlock that you now have for changing. Do you think Stones would be more valuable, or less valuable.

where do you think you will use more stones throughout the life of the game.

my premise is very simple, i believe you, and 90% of players will spend MORE stones overall throughout the life of the game, if they pay to unlock for the account, than if they pay to change. Keep in mind that high end gear is account bound now.

I think in an unlock system you will work toward unlocking every single skin you like, EVEN if its not as cool as your favorite skin. In the current system you will only pay for whatever your current favorite skin is.

What is really going to increase thier profits more?

I have done probably 80 transmutation across 8 charachters in a year and a half. with unlocks i would probably have done at the very least twice that. I would probably have done way more.

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phys.7689

Considering what I pay now to shift an appearance (one transmute crystal) HELL YES I prefer the new cost of doing business.

huh, i thought you kept all the skins in your vault, ohh you mean like low level skins, not gemstore skins, or LS skins.

yeah if you were holding on to a modlinir dagger or something that was level 20, then you may as well destroy it in the new system.

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phys.7689

I will be buying more charges under the new system than I would for an “unlock” charge. Why? Because when I switch an armor set, the likelihood that I go back to the old one is low.

…please, read what you wrote, and think for a while.
The cost difference between unlock system and “per change” system lies in returning to old looks. If you do not return to old looks, then you pay more in unlock system. Only if you keep returning to the old skins constantly is the “per change” system better for Anet.
By your claim, you belong to the first category, not the second.

I’ve read it a billion times over and I am certain that I am perfectly fine with the charge system. I don’t care if an armor unlocks. I won’t likely return to the same armor a second time. Which is why I would not like a larger cost of charges to “unlock” and thus would not do it as often, if that was the way it turned out.

just to be clear IT SHOULD NOT HAVE A LARGER COST. unless they were going to reduce the cost of changing drastically. It is already too expensive to change gears unless it is an expensive item where the cost is low by comparison. With the account binding of ascended and legendaries, there is even LESS incentive to use transmutation to return to old looks.

I am saying they will make MORE money than having a per change cost, even if the unlock cost is EXACTLY the same. because people will make much more use of the transmutation system as a whole, and get more gear, which they already have a ton of.

so, just to be clear, because we were not understanding each other before.

do you think you would spend more, less or the same money on transmutation charges if for the same cost of changing a gear once, you could unlock that look for your charachter?

Do you think you would unlock more looks than you usually change into? Would there be any looks you probably wouldnt change into now, that you would unlock just to have at your disposal?

keep in mind the cost is the same as for changing

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phys.7689

But I think this system is to some degree still pointed at people who don’t change their looks often. Because it takes away the edge off of either loosing expensive stats on an ascended piece of equipment or loosing an expensive skin like infinite light when they wish to switch to something else.

And that’s the inherent flaw in its design, the main purpose of an in-game wardrobe is to facilitate changing your look freely, and often.

Well, this change is going to let me get a ton of unused skins out of inventory into a specialized storage, allow my to duplicate my Infinite Light repeatedly at a trivial cost compared to building a second one, Let me use gem store outfits on multiple characters without buying the packs repeatedly, and does a lot of that by converting a low value resource (transmutation stones) into a high value resource (charges).

It doesn’t have to bend over and kiss the players toes/slash ANet’s wrists on RMTs to still be a huge improvement over the current status quo.

I’ll take it as offered. Thanks.

Its not going to make a low value resource high value in the long term. Most people will be using it as you say, but remember they would have been doing the same thing before, very few people who can afford it keep the stock looks of items. So whereas before you would be paying to unlock cool non expensive gear 1 on your alt you will pay the same money to unlock infinite light.

also, are you really going to destroy all those skins, knowing they will cost you 5 gold each to apply them? lets say you got 20 sitting around, you going to burn 100 gold in transmutation costs?

i mean first i was going to get rid of some of the gemstore skin peices i didnt use yet, but then i realized, i would still have to spend 5 gold to apply them after the first time.

far as i can see, the only thing really changing is essentially the account binding of looks, but thats already less valuable since that infinite light is probably on an ascended sword, and you could have swapped it around to whoever needed it anyhow with the new system WITHOUT having to actually make a new ascended weapon.

you really arent getting that much out the system

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phys.7689

I think you are sill overlooking 2 aspects.

1) Yes Every NEW unlock is the same as a charge to change. But even with new skins every now and then, it is a finite number of charges. Charge for Change is not a finite number of charges.

2 (and possibly minor)) You are forgetting alts. Every unlock means I have that skin for any and all of my characters. In a charge for chage system you can still make money of alts. In a charge to unlock system all that is lost.
Unless you are advocating unlocks to be character based and not account based. But I don’t think so.

1) its not infinite gains, because realistically the equation would look like this.
current system
(player changes look back to an old look X times per year)x (number of years player plays)
so while in theory a player can play infinite years, in reality it doesnt happen.

my goal is to increase the
(player uses transmutation stone X times per year) X (number of years player played)

the current system in practice for the far majority of players probably looks like, player spends approximately 6-15 stones initially on getting a level 80 charachter, and after that spends only on new gear that is visually superior to their old gear.

i want to make the same player spend 18-60 (3 to 4 different looksstones on level 80 charachter, and spend on any new gear that interests them at all(which is greater than what they spend on looks better than what they have now)

2) as far as your second point, you are right on this point, they are losing some money on people unlocking 1 item across multiple charachters, versus changing. The solution would be to make these permanent unlocks soulbound, but i recognize they have decided to move away, as a whole from soul bound, toward account bound.

But while i think in honesty, for most alts, people want different looks, i think they would mostly be losing weapon transmutations for legendaries and things like that. But i think the gains of people unlocking way more items would surpass this minimal loss.
after all, most weapons/gear cant even be applied to every class.

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phys.7689

It’s obvious that they just wanted to nerf chemp trains. Removing repair cost is a smokescreen.
How much we spend on repairs? 10 s top? And people make gold on chemp trains.

huh, i dont understand what any of this has to do with champ trains? were people doing champ trains to save money on repair costs? never knew.

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phys.7689

well the strength and weakness of anet’s process is that its iterative. They try different things and see what happens

Strengths, they will change things they think are wrong, more willing to experiment
Weaknesses, sometimes a lack of coherent vision, and sometimes changes cause mismatches with old/new systems and grandfathering

i think they need to speed up the iterative process in order to maximize its gains. If it takes a year to identify and solve problems an iterate, it kind of lessens some of the advantages, and compounds some of the disadvantages.

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phys.7689

Anet can fire me if im wrong.

Do…do you work for ANet? ARE YOU A DEV. IN DISGUISE?

Because we’ve been waiting for some developer feedback here.

the beauty of getting fired for a job you dont have is quite great.
I dont think anet would want a guy like me, I’d be stepping outside my lane way too often, commenting all over the place, and telling a bunch of departments what i think they should do.

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phys.7689

Dont really see the problem armor repair costs had become a laughable cost for a long time now. I mean i suppose, if you died like 20 times, it would matter, but i dont think anyone cared anymore.

hell i dont mind if they keep it, but it really doesnt matter much.

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phys.7689

i cant believe you think soulbound is hardcore.

This is super limited use, and the inventory system doesnt really back it up well.
Its a super hassle to do it anyhow.
I think they should move forward to an unlock system for stats, or an armory for weapon/armor inventory and add trait/gear/skill swap systems.

hardcore is doing hardcore things. Maybe even getting hardcore rewards. Are you really satisfied as a hardcore player getting 7 berserker ascended medium sets? do you think thats a worthy hardcore goal?

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phys.7689

Maybe a compromise?

The Wardrobe works the same way it does now, but when you use Charges to apply skins to a specific item, you can then freely swap back to this skin (and any other unlocked skin), on that item forever? For example:

1. I craft a Zojja’s Greatsword. It has the Zojja skin unlocked on it by default.
2. I use a Transmutation Charge and apply the AC Greatsword skin to it. It now has both the Zojja and AC skins unlocked on it, and I can freely swap between those two skins whenever I want.
3. If I then craft a new Keeper’s Greatsword, but wanted to use the Zojja’s and AC skins on this new weapon, then I’d need to spend 2 more Charges applying those two skins to my Keeper’s GS. (Alternatively, I could use 1 Charge and apply the Keeper’s skin to my old GS, which would now have 3 skins unlocked on it.)

Its not really a compromise when it entirely benefits the player .

The system is better for players than the current arrangement by a wide margin, but its still going to make ArenaNet some money.

forget comprimises, look for mutal winning.

the system they are making hurts everyone equally.
Anet will make less profit with a per change system overall
Players will feel more oppressed when it comes to changing looks
Current system ingame doesnt encourage hunting multiple armors which diminishes the value of ingame rewards/goals that arent going to add more gold to the system.

Unlock is a win for everyone. I stand behind this. More profits, more customer satisfaction, better in game mechanics.

Anet can fire me if im wrong.

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phys.7689

While I can understand why people who switch their looks very often would prefer a charge to unlock model, I think they are overlooking 2 aspects when they try to argue why the charge to unlock would give a larger revenue for the company:

1) Long term investment. The charge to unlock would most likely give them a massive spike in their revenue after the release of the feature. But once everyone is done with their unlocks? Apart from new players or the occasionally added new skin to hunt down their revenue from this aspect would flatline.
The system they chose to go with allows for a long term revenue. Sure we can’t predict the exact lifetime of the game, but I dare predict that this long term revenue will exceed any possible spike the charge to unlock system will generate.

2) Inhibition threshold. Anyone who just wants to alter their look less often will be hard pressed to go for the increased charge to unlock because it would require the equivalent of let’s say 30 trasnmutation just to change your look once. (The example uses 5 charges to unlock and is for a full set of 6 armour pieces. In case it is unclear how I got to the 30 transmutations.)
That is a considerably larger amount of gold/money to invest than 6 charges. So someone who has found a new look and isn’t into changing it very often will certainly be much happier with the charge to change system up to the point where someone like that might decide “It’s not worth all that.” and keep their current looks. Thus making zero revenue compared to the smaller revenue they will get if he has the option to just go with 6 charges.

The additional problem we have is that none of us have numbers on the mindset of the larger playerbase. Both sides argue that “everyone they have spoken to” likes their version better. Both sides argue that the other side might be just a “vocal minority”. But neither of us has actual numbers to back that up especially compared to the number of actually existing players and what their behaviour might entail.
Because how large o a portion of the playerbase have you actually spoken to? And in addition: Isn’t it likely that most people you talk about this will agree with you because you are most likely to discuss something like this with the people you usually play with? People with an alike mindset to yours? So of course in your gaming circle you will find mostly people who agree to your particular point of view.
Those two aspects somewhat diminish the actual value of those statements.

1st of all the shouldnt charge more for a permant unlock than a change, the cost is already to prohibitive to be worth it. It costs more for like 60% of the gear to transmute it than to obtain it. For dunegon armor, its currently almost even in earnings per run, and even for most upper mid tier items it is 20-50% of the cost of item.
long term they lose very little, because unlock only loses money on people going back to old looks.

2nd of all if the charge is the same cost as change, in the long term they still will make more money.

in an unlock system any NEW change generates the same revenue as in a change system

the fact is with a cost to return to look being so great, people dont return to looks. They either get a set of items to hold a new look, or they simply dont bother.

So they are trading the very minimal long term gains of multiple returns to one look, versus the much greater gains of people essentially buying a transmutation for every piece of gear they like even a little bit, in gemstore OR in game.

They have already tried the cost per change system, and i think almost everyone here knows, they dont change their look back to an old look just about ever. Even though they are lowering the cost (by not destroying items) its still way too expensive for a per change charge to encourage collection and incentivize.

Perhaps if they lower the costs of transmutation crystals greatly, then people may feel like its an ignorable cost, and over time they make more money, but with current costs i dont see that happening.

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phys.7689

I guess the problem with an unlock system is that, similar to account wide dyes, at some point most players will have unlocked all the skins that they want. In order for people to continue buying crystals, new armor and weapons would have to be introduced regularly (or a bunch of it at once).

I think this would be great, because the game does need more new armor and weapons (that don’t come in BLC). However, I find it understandable that this might not be something the dev team is currently willing to do or invest a huge chunk of time and effort into. In the long run though, I think it will be necessary to keep the game interesting.

Just imagine the huge run to collect all armors, if they were truly unlockable! The new changes don’t incentivise it all that much (though of course still much more than the previous system). Why would I want to run Honor of the Waves to gather those dungeon sets, if those are not my absolute favorite pieces of armor? What use is it for me to have them in my wardrobe, if I’d have to pay money to equip them, and then again pay money when I want to put my preferred set back on?

With an unlock system, I’d farm Honor of the Waves to have that set at my free disposal. I could change into it freely whenever I wanted to, say if I was fighting Jormag, just to set the mood — and then change back to another set I like. I would unlock all sets that I find in any way slightly interesting, just to have all these options and freedoms.

yes, this is the type of behavior i feel the cosmetic system should encourage. I can tell you now, for many customers they will never use as many transmutation stones in this system versus unlock system.

even if they lose on the change back to same armor a lot crowd, i think the i got to unlock them all crowd will more than pay for them.

i think i probably have like 30 stones saved up. With this change i may use like 3 or 4 stones i wouldnt have used otherwise. With an unlock system i would use all 30 of my stones, and i might buy some more from the store (because gold is actually harder to obtain than gems).
I think many of the people i know would think similarly.

Not only that, but id start actively hunting any skin i think is cool, which gives me more to do in game, whereas now, theres still no reason unless i want to EQ it on some character right now.

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phys.7689

The answer to that is, yes, I will spend (not 6 dollars, more like, 3.50) to change armors. Probably once a week at least once I get through my existing stash of crystals. And I will do it willingly, happily, and without a single regret. And many others will too, and thus they will make more money, and the game will live on longer.

but will you spend 3.50 to go back to an old look once a week? because thats the only time they lose money in an unlock system.

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phys.7689

To be honest I’m not entirely sure you know exactly what anet’s business situation is. I usually respect you as a poster, but I honestly feel like you are assuming you know a lot more about the system than you do. Anet had options, they knew their options. They chose this system, one which the very vocal minority of the forums dislikes because of x reason or y. It doesn’t matter, though, because it’s what Anet chose.

Myself, and all of my friends I have discussed this with, are excited about the new system. They will buy more charges than they buy crystals currently. To the casual player, it isn’t about “I want account unlocks!” Or “anet is taking my money! Shame them into submission!” It’s about “wow, that cultural armor I bought for gold that took me a year to farm because I play casually will be added to my wardrobe so I can try new armor sets without feeling like I’m sacrificing anything significant outside of a couple dollars.”

I think you know, as well as i do, that anet is not infallible, and they make mistakes. I think many people are excited about the new system, because its better, but i dont think it will change peoples overall behavior much, because when it comes down to it, its a pretty similar system. Not only that, but you realize the prices of gems will increase in gold value. right now, it costs way more to transmute a teir II armor than it does to buy it. It costs way more to transmute duelist(popular medium armor than it does to buy it) It costs about 4 to 5 runs (in gold profit) to transmute a dungeon armor, and it costs 3-5 runs (in dunegeon tokens) to get a new pair.

If the cost associated with making a change was stopping changes(and by that, sales of transmutation stones) It will still impede people from making changes.

I believe you and your friends may buy more than they would before, the total costs are the same, and the safety cost if you return is lower. but i believe you and your friends would unlock so much more if the cost of return is zero. Then you would unlock based totally on how cool you think something looks rather than how much it will cost you if you go back to your old look.

Right now, new look has to defeat old look in coolness, instead of working with it. If incinerator is a 9/10 and komalie dagger is 8/10 you wont get komalie dagger. in unlock system you probably get both.

Now, I could be wrong with my profit projections, but i wouldnt assume so just because anet is a company. Many companies have made mistakes, its only human.

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phys.7689

2. The fact that transmutation exists at all is fantastic and is one of the reasons GW2
is so progressive and awesome. We’re just saying that, while it’s better than other MMOs, the transmutation system is still flawed and is not enough for a game that claims to be revolutionary.

I just want to point this comment out…. I feel like this defines exactly why everyone is so unhappy: super high ultra expectations.

The bottom line is this: Anet needs to make money somehow, this is their way. Luckily, they are improving upon the system, so that even though they still make money, we get more. To be unhappy with it because “it isn’t enough” is actually sickening to me. Since when do we need to get everything we want? We’re getting something we didn’t need to have.

This is part of running a business. They have to be able to negotiate with their customers. Anet doesn’t need to be coddled they are perfectly capable handling their business. If what we are asking is just too much for them and they can’t do it then we are just at an impasse. No hard feeling no anger but it is just another thing too add to what is wrong (in our eyes) with this game.

Everyone wants to be able to change their looks around for free. What does that do to Anet? Cut their sales. What does that do for us? Cut our new content. Part of running a business is giving customers what they want without sacrificing the company for it.

Please go back and read previous post. The majority of reasonable people are asking for a PAY-to-unlock system not a absolutely free wardrobe. We know they need to make money and are willing to give them money but for a better deal than what was offered.

When it comes to our purchases I can only speak for myself just like you can only speak for yourself. I am not going to buy a single Wardrobe Charge under their currently released model. You sound like you will.

Would you also buy a Wardrobe unlock charge?

I will be buying more charges under the new system than I would for an “unlock” charge. Why? Because when I switch an armor set, the likelihood that I go back to the old one is low. The reason I don’t change my armors now is because the skins and stats are too expensive to sacrifice either. With charges, if on a whim I do happen to want to change back, it will cost me a few charges.

I personally think that anet would not make enough on wardrobe “unlock” to justify getting rid of the single charge.

no, from what you said you would spend the exact same amount of charges in an unlock system as a change system.
Unlock system, you spend 1 charge to change your chest to cultural teir III
Change system you spend 1 charge to change your chest to cultural teir III

now lets say you decide to try a new look
unlock system you spend 1 charge on New fractal armor
Change system you spend 1 charge on New Frcatal armor

difference is, under change system you decide, nah, i will never use a charge on Tier II armor, i only feel like wearing it once a month, then ill have to pay to go back to New Fractal armor.

“The reason I don’t change my armors now is because the skins and stats are too expensive to sacrifice either. With charges, if on a whim I do happen to want to change back, it will cost me a few charges. "

exactly. This system still creates a barrier to purchase based on having to sacrifice charges. Every time you make a change you must decide, Do i want to spend 50 gold/$6.00 (current prices) if i want to come back to my old look?
whereas unlock will make you feel like its worth it, because you are increasing your options, AND it would only cost you 25 gold to do so.

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phys.7689

2. The fact that transmutation exists at all is fantastic and is one of the reasons GW2
is so progressive and awesome. We’re just saying that, while it’s better than other MMOs, the transmutation system is still flawed and is not enough for a game that claims to be revolutionary.

I just want to point this comment out…. I feel like this defines exactly why everyone is so unhappy: super high ultra expectations.

The bottom line is this: Anet needs to make money somehow, this is their way. Luckily, they are improving upon the system, so that even though they still make money, we get more. To be unhappy with it because “it isn’t enough” is actually sickening to me. Since when do we need to get everything we want? We’re getting something we didn’t need to have.

This is part of running a business. They have to be able to negotiate with their customers. Anet doesn’t need to be coddled they are perfectly capable handling their business. If what we are asking is just too much for them and they can’t do it then we are just at an impasse. No hard feeling no anger but it is just another thing too add to what is wrong (in our eyes) with this game.

Everyone wants to be able to change their looks around for free. What does that do to Anet? Cut their sales. What does that do for us? Cut our new content. Part of running a business is giving customers what they want without sacrificing the company for it.

part of running a business is figuring out how to monetize in a way that maximizes your profits. This system does not. i will point out again.
The only time this system increases profit over an unlock system is when a player uses returns to a previously used look. Under the current system, people almost never do that. For any look that they think they may use again, they create a new set of items to store that look.
Even that case is rare, because most people just only go with one look.

If i want to monetize 2000 of the prints of my pictures, one of the worst ways i can do it, is to sell them a service where every time the bring back one of my pictures, i give them a new print. People will almost never use/buy 1999 of my print. I may make money one time per 6 months. Instead of customer potentially buying 6 or 7 pieces of art, they buy 1, they keep it until i can make something that is so much better they pay again to switch.

not to mention, even in my example, i dont charge the initial item costs that the game charges to obtain the item the first time.

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phys.7689

2. The fact that transmutation exists at all is fantastic and is one of the reasons GW2
is so progressive and awesome. We’re just saying that, while it’s better than other MMOs, the transmutation system is still flawed and is not enough for a game that claims to be revolutionary.

I just want to point this comment out…. I feel like this defines exactly why everyone is so unhappy: super high ultra expectations.

The bottom line is this: Anet needs to make money somehow, this is their way. Luckily, they are improving upon the system, so that even though they still make money, we get more. To be unhappy with it because “it isn’t enough” is actually sickening to me. Since when do we need to get everything we want? We’re getting something we didn’t need to have.

Im unhappy because its improving a bad system.

Its like if someone decided to make a car to go underwater, and it sucked so they improved it by making water resistant ulpholstery, a drop down gas mask, a place to store a wetsuit.

Yes they improved the cars ability to go underwater, however the car is from the beginning a bad solution for underwater travel.

The biggest problem with the current system is it doesnt not encourage obtaining and collecting multiple looks. In a game that from the start said they wanted to have cosmetic progression THIS IS A HUGE FLAW. This flaw actually effects their sales on every cosmetic item, it effects the value of cosmetics in game. The new system has the exact same flaw. I think at first people will be hyped, then after they realize they have to pay per change, their overall play habits will stay the same.

they will pick one look per charachter spending anywhere from 6-15 stones (depending on weapons) and stay with those looks until something that is new and exciting comes along.

In an unlock system you make essentially the same money, but increase the desirability of getting multiple armors drastically.

This system will also clash with further systems they should work on down the line. Like armor/trait/skill build tabs.
seperating armor stat collection from visuals

Its just not a good design solution, it has problems now, and it will have problems later, and i dont believe it will make more money for anet overall. I point out again no where have i seen a pay per change system storage/convience system with fees of anywhere from 200% to 10% of the cost of the item stored/made convienent be more profitable. Its not a good monetization strategy. It only profits more than unlocks on someone who repeatedly unlocks the same looks. But the very system discourages players from doing that. Most people who want to repeatedly use the same looks, get a new set of armor to hold it.

Its just a bad system, it has always been a bad system, making it smoother doesnt help.

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phys.7689

I think the main reason that some people here are suggesting that ArenaNet is doing it “wrong” believe that because they are only looking at the system based on how they themselves currently use it, not on how the rest of the playerbase is using it.

For example, a few people challenged my post above and claimed that sales would increase by switching to a pay once system, however, there is only one scenario in which that would be the case and that would be if all players picked out a look a single time and never really changed it. That’s the way I play, and that’s probably the way they play as well, but it is not the way EVERYONE plays, and that is why they are wrong. The system proposed by ArenaNet will maximize profits because while there are players who pick a skin and stick with it, ArenaNet does not make money from those players, they make money from the players who change their looks ALL THE TIME. If those players get to pay once and have unlimited changes, or even pay once per skin, the volume of transactions will decline significantly (I don’t have any figures, but I would estimate in the range of an 80%+ decrease in revenue from transmutations).

To make up for that lost revenue, they would have to significantly increase the price of transmutations.

ArenaNet is making the best business decision here, you can’t fault them for that.

i disagree with you, anet knew they werent getting people to change gears as much as they want, thats partially why they made this change, the difference is they figured it was mostly due to the item destruction factor that was getting in the way of dress up. But this was only one facet.
I contend that the major barrier is iretreiveable costs associated with swapping looks. one part of that cost was item destruction the other part of that cost was transmutation fees. For many of the items that exist in the game, transmutation fees is currently higher on the list of costs. (every gear from 1-79)

The model they are proposing doesnt exist anywhere and succeed unless the fees are minimal.
even rentals irl, charge per day the current system charges per change, which means change is little as often is encouraged behavior.

The people who change all the time, probably dont change back very much, they would still get the same money off them. see, they only lose money on players who go back to old looks, which under the old system was probably so rare as not to exist. Under the new system it will be similarly as rare, at the same time discouraging people to even try.

If you are the person who makes t shirt designs, you dont want to charge people for changing designs, it means you only get paid when you come out with a better design. If you charge for buying a design, you get people buying 5 and 6 and 7 designs where before they would buy one, and they still will buy when cooler item comes out. Its just not a good model for the business, or the user.

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phys.7689

i think you are misunderstanding him, the system he wants is the same as the system they are proposing, except after the first time you pay the transmutation fee, you no longer have to pay again if you want to use that skin.

So you already bought vipers, now you want to transmute it on your second charachter, you pay transmutation unlock fee once, now that top is forvever free. Its the difference between buying a piece of clothes, and buying use of that clothes until next time you change clothes.

I never even thought they’d do that. Considering they have the transmutation system from day 1. Because what you’re say here is saying (in the current system): if you transmuted an item once, you can then put it on any other item for free thereafter.

They simply streamlined the entire process, without actually changing the underlying processes (that much).

pretty much, but imo the old system didnt make transmutation very desirable, and made exploring new looks and cosmetics as horizontal progression not really possible. Which they said was one the goals they wanted to have for the game.

I think an unlock system increases the value of their art assets, and value as a goal for players. by attaching the unlock system they ensure that they gain revenue with every gear they put out that people find cool, whereas now, people only transmute or like armor if its Cooler than what they currently own.

Essentially the old system was crippling their cosmetic meta, and the new system still cripples it, but it cripples it less than what we have now.

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phys.7689

I have several Gemstore skins that I haven’t transferred on armor yet. How will that work out? The FAQ just talks about “new” purchases, but not “old” ones.

Right click, and then click make account bound.

I wonder about that…

I have not used all items from my Viper set. I can now transfer them, for free, on any armour piece, lvl1 to lvl80. What if I put them into my vault (after the update). Will I still be able to use them for free (at least, the first time)?

No you wouldn’t have to increase the price, did you see how many skins were in there? Each would require a charge.

Please tell me how that is different from today? Today, if I want a skin to put over my current armour, I’ll have to go out there (TP, dungeon, drop, whatever) to find the skin, then buy a transmutation crystal (assuming I’m lvl80, otherwise I might use a free stone I get from map completion), and put the skin on my current armour.

In the new system, if I want to put a skin over my current armour, I’ll go out there (TP, dungeon, drop, whatever) to find the skin, put it in my vault (unless it’s in my vault already, I skip the searching bit), buy a transmutation charge (if I don’t have any left from the free ones I got from map completion) and put the skin on my current armour.

It’s in fact a lot easier this way, if you want a skin of the same look. Let’s say I want to use another coat of the viper set. I’d have to go to the store, buy a new set for 800 gems, use the coat and try to figure out what to do with the other 5 pieces. After the patch, I’ll go to my vault, buy a transmutation charge (if I don’t have any left, etc) and done. I have the feeling a transmutation charge won’t cost me 800 gems (even if I didn’t have any left from map completions)…

i think you are misunderstanding him, the system he wants is the same as the system they are proposing, except after the first time you pay the transmutation fee, you no longer have to pay again if you want to use that skin.

So you already bought vipers, now you want to transmute it on your second charachter, you pay transmutation unlock fee once, now that top is forvever free. Its the difference between buying a piece of clothes, and buying use of that clothes until next time you change clothes.

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phys.7689

The biggest problem with going to a one time pay unlimited use skin system is that the sales volume would be many times smaller, so the cost per transaction would have to go up, which would then lead to a further decrease in sales volume. You’d wind up having to pay $50+ for each unlimited skin unlock in order to make up for the lost sales that ArenaNet would have made on individual charges.

That said, I think they may want to consider adding a premium Transmutation service, in which an account can pay a one time $200-300 fee and would then have unlimited unlocks, to satisfy the people who don’t want to use the system as is.

not correct, because this system has already existed and the majority of players only change their looks rarely and seldom back to a style they previously had. They really arent going to get much sales with a per change rental system as much as a buy system.

I have never, in 1.5 years reused a skin i transmuted on this current system. In the new system i also will not. If they had an unlock system i would actually use more stones, and unlock more gear. Most people would.

The only loss they get with unlocks is from people who will go from say legendary A to Mystic forge Item B back to A. Which is not going to happen, they will create a second item and store it, just like they do now.

There is overall not going to be an increase in sales over time, because people will not use it in that way. The evidence is what exists now. The system is virtually the same, and people dont use it that way at all.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

That’s what most of us were expecting; unlimited free swaps after purchase and/or transmutation. ANet gets their sales and we get true cosmetic progression. Doesn’t look very promising so far, but I’ll reserve judgement until the 15th.

Was it?
I can only speak for myself of course, but I never assumed that they would remove a massive source of revenue and simply give it away for free without something replacing said revenue.
But I suppose that might just be me.

its not no source or revenue, its one time per piece. (according to what the poster above said) which is essentially all they ever get from most players anyhow. The current system the vast majority of people dont transmute over something they ever intend to use again, this new system wont change that very much.

They are infact lowering their profit in my eyes, because people who like fashion generally want to be able to pick and choose from their favorites, not to have to pay every time they change. They have no problem paying in order to actually have access to something. They do have problems having to pay every time they use something, UNLESS the fee is minimal as to be ignored. at the current rates, it is no where near the price point for a service fee, at 24-30 gold per set.
people simply wont change very often like they currently do now.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

How anyone who asked for a wardrobe could have thought that it would be free to use infinitely any skin you bought once, or received once, is beyond my comprehension. That’s my issue with this. And they’re even giving us ample time to farm those low level transmutation stones so that we can get free charges come April 15.

Because they based their experience of a wardrobe on the PvP wardrobe, where it IS free do use skins once you’ve unlocked them. And also, because that’s actually what people were asking for. They asked for a wardrobe where you could unlock all your skins across your account and apply them any time for free. So, when they saw that the wardrobe had been announced, they automatically assumed that it was what they asked for.

Whether or not people should be disappointed is clearly a subjective thing. But I can understand why people are.

I was under the impression that while they were account bound, pvp armors, if you wanted, say 2 rubric chests pieces, you needed to get 2. You didn’t have infinite use of that skin.

This is my understanding as well. In the PVP skin locker, I can’t hold more than 1. If i want to use that skin, I have to drag it to the character’s inventory and use it, then it becomes soulbound and there isn’t one in my pvp locker anymore. At which point I need to get another one from a box, or mystic forge one from components.

The pvp skin locker is not unlimited. You can only use the skin if you have one (and it only holds a single one), and once you use it, you need to get again if you want it on someone else.

most likely i think they will destroy the pvp locker system and replace it with the one they have here. Which i think may kitten a lot of people off.

What they might do, that wouldnt kitten people off, is make it so its the same system but transmutation has no cost in sPvP. but….. who can say until they tell people what their plan is.

We knew the pvp skin locker was going away. It was something that was mentioned in one of the big talks about upcoming changes to pvp. It is part of the removal of the split between pvp and pve gear. They even told us to not stop collecting the pvp only armor, because even though the locker was going away it would still be ‘worth something’ which makes me wonder if those pvp skins will simply be converted to unlocked skins now.

most likely the case, but i must admit 34 gold for a straight pvper seems like a hefty price, i guess they dont spend on much else, perhaps they will give out charges.

lets see 30 silver per match 15 if you lose so 113 matches to change your armor once. if you win every match in team arena.
226 if you lose every match to change your gear once in team arena.

pretty hefty to me. especially going from free to not

of course it could be free in pvp, or perhaps they give charges for something in there, so who knows.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

How anyone who asked for a wardrobe could have thought that it would be free to use infinitely any skin you bought once, or received once, is beyond my comprehension. That’s my issue with this. And they’re even giving us ample time to farm those low level transmutation stones so that we can get free charges come April 15.

Because they based their experience of a wardrobe on the PvP wardrobe, where it IS free do use skins once you’ve unlocked them. And also, because that’s actually what people were asking for. They asked for a wardrobe where you could unlock all your skins across your account and apply them any time for free. So, when they saw that the wardrobe had been announced, they automatically assumed that it was what they asked for.

Whether or not people should be disappointed is clearly a subjective thing. But I can understand why people are.

I was under the impression that while they were account bound, pvp armors, if you wanted, say 2 rubric chests pieces, you needed to get 2. You didn’t have infinite use of that skin.

This is my understanding as well. In the PVP skin locker, I can’t hold more than 1. If i want to use that skin, I have to drag it to the character’s inventory and use it, then it becomes soulbound and there isn’t one in my pvp locker anymore. At which point I need to get another one from a box, or mystic forge one from components.

The pvp skin locker is not unlimited. You can only use the skin if you have one (and it only holds a single one), and once you use it, you need to get again if you want it on someone else.

most likely i think they will destroy the pvp locker system and replace it with the one they have here. Which i think may kitten a lot of people off.

What they might do, that wouldnt kitten people off, is make it so its the same system but transmutation has no cost in sPvP. but….. who can say until they tell people what their plan is.