Guild Wars 2

good advice kaz, didn’t know that. Only problem I see is that only necro and rangers have that easy of access to stability without gimping their damage (my opinion) with a chance exception of engi. Used to work with dodging it at the right time if you had something like reckless dodge. They fixed that a long time ago though.

Also there’s nothing wrong with having a designated tear thrower. Just because that guy is throwing tears doesn’t mean he isn’t doing dps, it just means the other 4 don’t need to worry about anything other than dps.

good chunk of thief bugs there. There’s ofc also the clusterbomb projectile bug where if it’s mid air and you go down, instead of the bomb landing there and exploding, no damage is done and you are ported to that point, wasting the blink and often getting you killed.

Skill queueing might not be a bug but it sure feels like one. Getting locked in place to do 1-2 more hseekers when you were telling your character to move back or dodge is highly annoying.

Last refuge procs which you’re already revealed, doing nothing. Last refuge procs while you have a projectile mid flight or attack mid cast, instantly revealing you.

Ranged weapon auto attacks have a longer delay between shots than what the tooltip states.

Scorpion wire missing things b/c they move to fast.

You can use shadowsteps to dodge projectiles but even though the thing blatantly misses you, you still get hit. Easily repeatable against agent belka and champion abom in arah p2.

Einlanzer.1627:

Ghettoblade.7962:

I’m sorry,but i would be embarrassed to shoot a bow that had unicorns and rainbows coming out of it,guess its fine for the hello kitty set..but my ranger don’t shoot unicorns

Well then you should probably work on your insecurities.

doesn’t sound too insecure to me. Sounds like he just doesn’t like the design of the bow and would rather something more explosiony. As a proud owner of the Dreamer, the best part of using it, aside from killing colossal beings with magical flying pink rainbow unicorns is when I kill people in wvw and they add me to pt to tell me how much they hate the bow… then they res, come back to the same place, and die again :P I didn’t get the bow to troll people, it was just a very nice side effect.

Issues.5789:

Your exact words were: In short, you got outplayed. You want a class nerfed because a guy who plays thief is a better theif than a guy (you in this case) who picked one up to see how it works. LOL, how am I being a jerk? I don’t play PvE. WvW only. Being a jerk is always better than being a butthead so I’ll take the compliment.

You completely refused to even acknowledge what Das was saying which is why I called you out. I also just explained what you wrote sounded like. Sorry that you took offence to that.
Your argument was that a thief was able to invis faster than possible since culling fix but still wanted them nerfed due to what they could do BEFORE the fix. If you don’t understand why that would bug someone and make you sound less than savory then there’s no point in continuing this conversation. It clearly isn’t going to be going anywhere

Issues.5789:

LOL wut. I played 10/30/30 D/D build for no more than 1 hour than gave it up. I hated it.. You might find this hard to believe, but when I’m my main build I’ve never lost to a thief 1v1.. ever. And I don’t play cheesy P/D. Thanks for interpreting.

good for you, never said you did. What you are saying though, is that you’re fine with 4s revealed because you don’t use it. If you were using d/d (esp in pve) before nerf though, you’d be pulling your hair out due to how horrible the rotation feels now. Lastly, this is a PUBLIC forum, anyone can join in the conversation. Thanks for being a jerk to someone joining into the conversation

jul.7602:

VanityValentine.6203:

jul.7602:

The video features 3 thieves, a warrior and a mesmer that has been edited to give the illusion of speed. Show us your full start to finish run with no edits and no warriors and maybe so we can carefully reevaluate your run. Otherwise this is meaningless and a garbage run.

I would actually love to see you Run, how much u hit for, and how fast u can kill both boss.

If I get some good video recording equipment I will gladly show off a proper run. In fact if I find a way to record it, I will wager a 50 gold prize. My team vs yours. However there will be some rules.

1)4 thieves 1mesmer vs 4 warriors, 1 mesmer. No exceptions.

2)Record from the dungeon initiation and to the death of the final boss.

3) No black lion boosts +5% damage ect.

-Final. Take this lightly, with college exams and a busy schedule it could take me a while to find some people and with proper recording.

1. You missed the whole point of this thread.
2. The reason for the 1 warrior in the group was to drop the dps banner… that is all.
3. Read up, you missed many good points that make your senseless rage post from before null and void
4. The point of this thread was to say thieves, when subjected to the same buffs as everyone else, deal the most single target damage in the game. Don’t believe me? Check and see how fast the driver AND effigy went down in that same run.
5. If you REALLY wanted it to be about thieves vs warriors, why did you make the no exceptions have a mesmer in the group…

Those karma chests are junk. As a proud owner of 11 risen priests of blathazar, I can safely say that. I have spent around 2 million karma on the boxes and have gotten maybe 20 lodestones. That includes at least 5 molten and 4 glacials. I know I have gotten 3 charged, 2 corrupted, 2 destroyers, and 1 onyx… don’t remember how many crystals and essences though. I also have 1 warm potion that’s worth 5s.

Even though the chests CAN drop good stuff, them being added in as a drop would be pointless. It would only be more karma that we don’t need and a slight bit more silver that doesn’t scale with gold find. Would complain about either, there’s just better solutions to be had.

kipz.8701:

Since im usually the tear kitten in my dungeon group I’ll give my 2p

People shouldn’t be linking petrified of saying they’re petrified unless you NEED to.

You can see the debuff in the party frames and you can see it blinking. When it starts blinking really fast thats when you want to throw your tear. By the time you actually throw it they should be fully frozen and this way you can minimise downtime from the debuff.

Watching the party frames is key! It’s really not hard.

true but no one in my pt (except for me) had done Simin before. Relying on the thrower to do that wouldn’t have been smart. Besides , linking petrified while petrified doesn’t lose our on dps so there’s no harm in doing it.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I bet you also want to keep Trap Ranger and Regenning Beastmaster too while buffing their Longbow to shoot flaming Chuck Norrises.

You’re talking circles and trying to bring unrelated points into a conversation for the sake of winning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpjq8jqrPq8
Fast forward to 30s and listen for 30s. That’s exactly what you are sounding like. What a ranger has going on for them or an ele, neither has anything to do with shadow refuge. This thread doesn’t even have anything to do with shadow refuge. It’s about last refuge.

With all that said, wow that’s an amazing idea for a legendary. Although it would be hard to shoot full chucks, might make the game explode. It might be more manageable to just shoot his mustache

and this is for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA

Kaon.7192:

If you “just learn to play with it” then LR would require you to disengage combat before 25%hp …

Not to mention you’re going to have to “learn” when your opponent (or opponents collectively) are going to use their big bursts to bring you down to 25% in an instant and plan your moves pre-emptively.

I suppose we should all just “learn” to read minds over the internet like Mr. Champ over here.

I did and ever since then they’ve called me the champ

If you get the reference then you’re a kitten… so that was censored… baddonkey

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Arganthium.5638:

Except that SoU is a… Signet. What did you expect, that you’d get both the passive as well as a superior active? Also, SR doesn’t get an insta-res. In fact, you’re often lucky to pull off one res in SR. AoE and CC make SR ridiculously difficult to rez in. It’s crazy.

Also, SR is our only real direct defense ally support.

The cooldown still makes this a very difficult skill to time properly.

The heal really isn’t that much. I’m pretty sure eles heal for more just by switching to their Water attunement for three seconds.

Signet of Undeath is a crappy signet, with virtually no point in it having a passive. The LF gain is virtually nonexistent to justify it being a signet. I understand that SR is your only real defensive support option, that doesn’t mean it needs to be strong as sin. No, I’m not QQing because I can’t defeat it, I’m irritated because too much reliance is put on that. I can’t go 30 seconds in a game with a Thief without seeing either Heartseeker, Deathblossom, or Shadow Refuge. What I want to see is more diversity in Thief, so they don’t have to rely on such gimmicky and rather annoying things.

the troll is strong in this one, surprised people are taking you seriously.

In the event that you are serious (unlikely), take a look at the support on other classes. Engi, ele, guardian, warrior, mesmer, and necro to be specific. I would have said ranger too but they need a thief to make full use of their best support.

Issues.5789:

Dasorine.1964:

Issues.5789:

randomfightfan.4091:

Issues.5789:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Issues.5789:

Edit: I personally like the 4 second stealth change, as 3 second was very very OP imo; thieves just don’t want to admit it because they liked perma stealth and backstabs lol.

Wait. How in hell do people get the idea a 4s revealed will stop thieves from perma-stealthing? It NEVER stopped perma-stealthing because you can still perfectly time CnD to restealth and you can still chain smokescreen/shadow refuge/ smokescreen! What makes you think a 4s revealed is preventing thieves from doing that?

All this nasty 4s revealed does is nerfing the damage output of players who play their thief like it is meant to be played. Quickly entering and leaving stealth. This nerf hit the wrong side of the coin, so to speak.

It should be reverted in EVERY gamemode and instead it should be applied whenever the stealth “boon” (that nice little symbol you have when you are stealthed) disappears, no matter how, be it because it ran out or because the user broke it with an attack.

And while i am at it… i seriously ope this patch will finally align thieves with other classes in PvE, mainly the currently existing trinity of guardians, mesmers and warriors. Nothing a thief does is what a thief excels at, thats why almost no group asks for thieves – or any other class besides the trinity. I dont want to be a rezzing bot or the stealthing kitten to bypass trash groups, i want to bring something to the table. And currently its neither superior damage, support or control. ArenaNet, please make us thieves and the other missfits worthwhile to be taken in a dungeon group!

My bad, not perma stealth, but those 10/30/30 D/D backstab builds were overpowered. People had like 18k hp, did c+d and would backstab for 7-8k+ and then spam 1 for 3 times, very short, then c+d again, now you have to stay out in stealth for quite some time so the opponent knows where you are instead of almost going back in and bursting for a lot of damage.

not really sure what you’re saying here as it doesn’t make much sense but you’re wrong on the numbers you posted. If someone is 10-30-30 backstab build, they will have 10k hp (full zerker) not 18k. 30 into sa gives 0 vitality, it’s toughness and healing. Also that build very, much so, isn’t overpowered. It’s a noob slayer build. Doesn’t mean only bad players use it, just means when used against bad players, it makes them cry. Against good players, it can be hard to win if you don’t first take them by complete surprise.

I tried it out once because I was lost and then decided to make my own builds; but I had 18-19k hp. I use Power Vitality Toughness gear alongside Ruby Orbs and even on level 80 players averaged 6-8k backstabs and was only out of stealth for not even a full rotation of 1 on my D/D, before I could C+D again.

Then you where getting some bad latency, with a D/D auto attack chain being 2 seconds long and even pre-nerf revealed duration being 3 seconds long what you were seeing was not revealed being shorter than your 1 D/D auto attack rotation but your D/D auto attack rotation being longer than your revealed duration due to delay in starting it and other similiar issues.

Before the nerf there was of course culling which gave you 2 seconds of the enemy not seeing you after you break stealth however you yourself wouldn’t see yourself invisible and of course that was “fixed” in the same patch as the nerf, now of course it seems they are realizing with culling fixed and such there is little reason to extend the revealed duration in a way that muchs up people rotations while not preventing any cheesy “perma-stealth” (Which again I must reiterate is doing very little to zero damage while being almost completely vulnerable) and giving negligible effects on peoples attitudes to how long the thief is stealthed (people still think thieves running the basic backstab burst spec are stealth 90% of the time)

Sure, whatever. I’m not gonna bother posting lol. My point remains, I enjoy the 4second “nerf” because it seems more fair.

So you’re refusing to acknowledged an intelligent answer, created to help you, because you would rather a pve nerf remain b/c you don’t like getting killed in wvw. Right. Here’s another point, while you were in your pvt armor, you were doing very low damage compared to a zerker thief. The other player would have also been experiencing the same culling as you. You were visible to him the same amount of time he was visible to you. The difference was, the other player reacted better.

In short, you got outplayed. You want a class nerfed because a guy who plays thief is a better theif than a guy (you in this case) who picked one up to see how it works.

Issues.5789:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Issues.5789:

Edit: I personally like the 4 second stealth change, as 3 second was very very OP imo; thieves just don’t want to admit it because they liked perma stealth and backstabs lol.

Wait. How in hell do people get the idea a 4s revealed will stop thieves from perma-stealthing? It NEVER stopped perma-stealthing because you can still perfectly time CnD to restealth and you can still chain smokescreen/shadow refuge/ smokescreen! What makes you think a 4s revealed is preventing thieves from doing that?

All this nasty 4s revealed does is nerfing the damage output of players who play their thief like it is meant to be played. Quickly entering and leaving stealth. This nerf hit the wrong side of the coin, so to speak.

It should be reverted in EVERY gamemode and instead it should be applied whenever the stealth “boon” (that nice little symbol you have when you are stealthed) disappears, no matter how, be it because it ran out or because the user broke it with an attack.

And while i am at it… i seriously ope this patch will finally align thieves with other classes in PvE, mainly the currently existing trinity of guardians, mesmers and warriors. Nothing a thief does is what a thief excels at, thats why almost no group asks for thieves – or any other class besides the trinity. I dont want to be a rezzing bot or the stealthing kitten to bypass trash groups, i want to bring something to the table. And currently its neither superior damage, support or control. ArenaNet, please make us thieves and the other missfits worthwhile to be taken in a dungeon group!

My bad, not perma stealth, but those 10/30/30 D/D backstab builds were overpowered. People had like 18k hp, did c+d and would backstab for 7-8k+ and then spam 1 for 3 times, very short, then c+d again, now you have to stay out in stealth for quite some time so the opponent knows where you are instead of almost going back in and bursting for a lot of damage.

not really sure what you’re saying here as it doesn’t make much sense but you’re wrong on the numbers you posted. If someone is 10-30-30 backstab build, they will have 10k hp (full zerker) not 18k. 30 into sa gives 0 vitality, it’s toughness and healing. Also that build very, much so, isn’t overpowered. It’s a noob slayer build. Doesn’t mean only bad players use it, just means when used against bad players, it makes them cry. Against good players, it can be hard to win if you don’t first take them by complete surprise.

Takato.4976:

Seems right, I do believe that he’s running 25/30/0/0/15 to get the extra 3 initiative which helps keep his initiative about 6 ( for the extra damage bonus of first strike, 25 in crits. )

And out of curiosity, I noticed you put force/accuracy, is that really the “recommended” or what you use ? I typically had force + a sup blood for the 250 extra power. Which could be swapped for something else after it hit 25 stacks. ( I do realize that in CoF you might not even hit 25 stacks, which is why it might not be recommended specifically there. )

sorry but that’s not the best setup for highest dps. 15 points into trickery give 3 ini on steal and +3 total ini. If you were wanting the most dps you’d have 10 points into SA and 5 into trickery for the +ini on stealth and the 3 ini on steal. For a backstab build that does the most. If you were solo 10 into trickery would be the best b/c thrill of the crime for fury might and swift but it’s only 1 might stack and in that scenario others are already giving fury.

Takato.4976:

Takato.4976:

Do you have your trait/weap setup somewhere handy?

Please? I’m just curious, as I run full zerker thief for everything yet don’t come anywhere near the damage output seen in the video. Just want to maximize my potential

check out his buff bar, lots of might stacks. I’m assuming that’s from the mesmer, fgj, and 3 steals with thrill all at the same time. If you want max damage go 25-30-x or 30-30-x. max dps, same thing but with 10 in sa

Travlane.5948:

theres no way one person can kill a defensive guardian before he reaches his zerg or castle . even 2 people would have an insanely hard time. in a GOOD guild or GOOD zerg you have like about 50-60 minimum running. our guild organizes so we have 5-7 guardians. 4 thieves running venom share…..several necros just amazing in zergs with aoes heals condi switchs and ice dmg etc CC etc…..

While I do agree with most of what you said, this right here kind of makes me laugh. You are saying the word “good” when what you mean to say is “big”. There are a lot of GOOD guilds that don’t ever have 50 members on at a time. Heck, there are some good guild that rarely have 15 members on at a time. Sure it would be great to have those kinds of numbers, but it’s not necessary. Besides, if you have a guild of 50-60, you are a Zerg. Idc if you’re a smarter than usual zerg, 50-60 people is a massive zerg that is capable to rolling over mountains in this game.

Altered Dimension.2834:

To OP, guessing you edited your full video because you failed on other parts. It doesn’t matter how fast you kill the boss’s/gate, if you dilly dally on the other parts, have stragglers running to boss ect. Guessing it was a 6 min+ run, that’s why you had to edit it several times. Lets get that full video posted, to actually back your statement.

Have you even ran CoF? Failed on the other parts? The other parts that weren’t shown include running to ferah, saving ferah… that’s it… Rolling bombs has nothing to do with team comp and is still fast and easy.Running that bridge for a thief is a laugh. Invis before the gate opens, invis channel (though cluster bomb or sr) ends as gate opens, runs past mobs, saves ferah. And btw, with 3 thieves, no one would get hit a single time. Each one would go in, assassinate each cultist in .2s, then get out… so seriously, what other parts are you talking about?

Sounds like you’re just trying to get mad at the video b/c it’s not 4 warriors and a mesmer that’s killing the dungeon fast. If this was CoE and it only showed the alpha fights, then your statement would make sense. As it stands, you just made yourself look silly.

Also the OP has already stated it wasn’t him to made the video, it was one the people he ran with. Plz get off his kitten /p>

PolishSausage.1279:

What blows my mind about skippers is that they skip mobs that are actually MORE difficult to skip than just to kill normally. For example, the Deadeyes in Arah can be easily killed by pulling one and then Line-of-Sighting them to get them in close. One less mob to worry about for the trek, and no one risks getting one-shotted and slowing the run down, and less crap to run back through in the event of a wipe. And yet hardly anyone does this simple task that shouldn’t take longer than 15 seconds to do with a competent group.

It’s no wonder every party has to have a Mesmer in it for mass invis, since people have just gotten so lazy they don’t even know basic MMORPG dungeon tactics, and instead just try to marathon run everything without even thinking.

deadeyes aren’t hard to skip… you know there’s a big timer that pops up on your buff bar that lets you know exactly when to dodge. And why do you think people need a mesmer to get people past? A competent group really doesn’t need one. Mesmers are pretty bad at running and if people need one to get past something, that just means it’s the rest of the team that’s bad. If you REALLY need a mass invis, a thief can keep you invis indefinitely.

this is a dungeon though. Would you rather be fighting punching bags that give no reward, or fight the opponent you’ve been training for and get the purse after you win (if you win)?

people keep defending warriors super hard in here for some reason… idgi. Sure warriors can do this easier… but 3 thieves vs 3 warriors made that run a full min faster. Since it’s all about how to make the run as fast as possible ping gear or kick blah blah blah, why aren’t people just accepting this video for what it is?

timecookie.8570:

randomfightfan.4091:

Things like the Magecrusher and Champ Abom SHOULD drop silver since they have about 4x too much hp and pose 0 threat to anyone who knows what they’re doing.

Being rewarded for hitting punching bags and taking 0 risk?

you hit that punching bag until your arms fall off and and no longer have any energy or desire to train anymore

KazNaka.4718:

I don’t think that’s a bug. The moment she turns invis and starts healing, I believe there is a set timer when she will go invis again. So if you take too long pulling the sparks in during that time frame, you’re taking up time to DPS her. Hence, when you finally pulled the sparks in and be able to DPS her, there is only a short amount of time left until she invis again.

So the point is, if you take too long pulling in sparks, you won’t be able to get her hp down. Unless of course, the group has mad DPS, then you can take longer and still be fine.

makes sense, just didn’t make the link. My bad then.

KazNaka.4718:

and not every purple bosses drop 10 silver loot.

is true

Worst part about that is most of the time it’s the fat slabs of meat that never die who don’t drop the money. Things like the Magecrusher and Champ Abom SHOULD drop silver since they have about 4x too much hp and pose 0 threat to anyone who knows what they’re doing.

grifflyman.8102:

Arah also takes hours to complete and you get kitten as a result

it takes hours?

I have to ask about your warrior spreadsheet, does it account for the free bleed stacks you get on crit?

SET.3275:

When she bugs, after stealth she have 50% health. Always. No way to counter it. I dont see she was bugged in your video.

she was bugged as in she was going stealth after less than 5s of non invis. It isn’t just at 50%, it’s at a few more points (pretty sure at least) but we’d all use high burst skills doing like 15+k instantly then getting the sparks in before she would out heal that damage. Pretty sure that’s what evened it out in the end.

you shouldn’t really show off how to bug a boss out, because that’s an exploit and your account can be banned for it :/

you should watch the video meng. This isn’t a how to bug, it’s a how to win despite bugs with a tutorial of the basics vs simin

Hope this helps you guys out.

I didn’t hear of any other guides out there since the most recent Simin changes so I thought this could help some. She does bug a lot easier now but with the slower hp regen, it CAN be countered with quick bursts and fast spark pulls. If you have any questions that I didn’t cover in the vid leme know and I’ll try to help out as best I can.

Infidel.8412:

Not any faster than a warrior group from what I saw? I also take down gate as fast as that with frenzy axe. You can say “well, but we are just as good as you can see…”, but most thieves will not be.

that was about 2x faster than any warrior

Scootabuser.4915:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-warrior/first#post1886080

guys, you have to DOWNLOAD the spreadsheet in the link, the default builds on that thing are NOT what I used, the default builds on the spreadsheets use omnomberry bars and the wrong traits with bad rotations and are missing sigils.

Also, if you want to add a dodge into the rotation, you can do it yourself, a dodge takes .75 seconds and you can dodge every 10 seconds SO

CnD
Backstab
Auto
CnD
Backstab
Auto
Dodge

THAT BEING SAID, why. This is what’s called theoretical DPS. It is not an accurate in game measurement, rather it is a tool for understanding how different classes compare. For example, the theoretical DPS of ranged weapons are usually around 3-4k DPS, 10-50% less damage then melee. AN did this on purpose for the exact reason that sometimes melee people have to back out and BLAH BLAH BLAH

Applied DPS is the in game accurate one, but to do that, you need a DPS counter and ALOT of trials. And I mean ALOT of trials, and it’s going to change per player. So from a scientific perspective applied DPS isn’t as useful when looking at things like class balance, or best builds.

DEEP BREATH

ok im done

I suggest putting this in as an asside with the main post as most people seem to be ignoring it due to it not being in the 1st post

withdraw is amazing 90% of the time. Just have to get used to using it as dual purpose. If you don’t you’ll feel like it’s junk.

Kasama.8941

Well, the stealth skill is tied into four out of the six adept traits, in Shadow Art, so it creates some problems if you just move it, as you need stealth in order for those traits to work. So if a player, who doesn’t use any stealth skills, adds ten trait points in Shadow Art because he want more toughness, he needs that stealth trigger from Last Refuge. That’s why it’s there.

… what? Also if you want more toughness, grab toughness on 1 item. That’s the same amount of tough you’d be getting from 10 points into that line. If that’s basically all you’re getting out of it (you are if you’re p/p), you’re far better off going somewhere else with your traits.

I play WvW, so I need the condition removal. People love snare skills in WvW.

You need the condition removal but you’re getting the removal from stealth… and you don’t have good access to stealth… Anyone else see the problem here? If you were p/d then it’d make complete sense… but you’re not.

Im Mudbone.1437:

+1, I concur. I want a more MANLY Legendary Bow please.

want manly? get in melee range then

VoxShatterfall.5470:

It would be cool if we could apply

But on another note – its not all fun and games. The testers might need to fill out lengthy reports and continually test certain areas / skills out in different areas.

Simply put alpha / beta testers can be required to do significant paperwork and may not have as much fun.

Some people have fun being able to iron out the kinks of something like that before the content is released. One could have more fun doing those unfun tasks than they would doing the perceived fun ones.

Yesterday I was fighting a Mesmer and ranger in the enemy keep. The ranger was smart and used the npcs for defence, the Mesmer wasn’t and tried to rush me and had terrible positioning. Guess which one I killed 1st :p

The reason why rangers are USUALLY the 1st target is cause they tend to be out of position when fighting a thief, making them an easy kill. If a ranger is smart, they can be the hardest class for us to kill. Luckily, most focus on playing right vs a Zerg but play completely wrong vs a thief.

Scootabuser.4915:

iNaddict.8021:

I would have to disagree with you there though. I maintain that no matter how big of numbers you see.. a thief backing off to recuperate is a thief doing 0 dps.. i would at least go with cond removal and shadow protection in the SA tree to be able to stay in the fight..

The problem is that no matter how good you are.. without toughness or vit.. when you get hit.. (and you will.. even if its just once) you go SPLAT.. and now a liability for your team because you need to rez or help get rezzed..

I shudder to think how much toughness and vitality you have on your thief to make any sort of difference in your survivability

Without the initiative on stealth, your dps drops DRAMATICALLY as you run out of initiative, lose 10% from first strikes, and have to chain together several auto attacks before you can CnD again. Infusion of shadow is actually one of the MOST important traits in the build.

Full damage builds are possible, but have high skill caps. Source: I rock

I like you speak the truth and are confident without acting like a jerk. I also agree that at least 10 points into sa gives a massive dps boost sue to infusion. I go 20 but that’s just cause it fits really well with my play style. I haven’t read enough into the previews to know what’s going on but I hope you’re right.

Also reading that chart on an iPod is impossible (at least it was for me), mind lettin me know the short of what it said about war dps

Grimwolf.7163:

Kasama.8941:

How many of these “this skill throws off my otherwise perfect combo timing” topics must we have? I play a pistol/pistol build, and those 2 seconds of stealth has saved me more times then I can remember.

Why are you investing in Shadow Arts as P/P?

Probably for deception cd but it really doesn’t make sense.

I am 100% all for taking out this trait or disabling it or something. Not only does it throw off my timing but it actively gets me killed when I don’t have revealed and when I do, it does absolutely nothing. Worst.trait.ever.

jportell.2197:

randomfightfan.4091:

jportell.2197:

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

Question for OP: this thread wouldn’t have happened to be prompted by a level 26 run recently, would it?

(Not that there aren’t lots of bad players out there)

Nope by a level 10 run….

What he meant by lvl 26 was 26 or bellow. Basically means the same thing but at least this guy was cool enough to realize he needed to work his way up. With experiences like that he’ll probably realize he needs a change of build for fraks so when he gets to higherevels, he’ll be prepared

Actually he kept bragging about how amazing he was and getting mad that we wouldn’t res him after the 6th time fully dying (because of the downed penalty). So I honestly don’t think he learned anything… He also pinged his “4 pristine relics” followed by “I know what I am doing you guys all suck”. So no he prolly will not change his build but he will also not get into that many groups and possibly kicked (I actually had people request to kick him) I am never the kick people type and even then tried not to but he did not figure it out when we asked if he had any ranged options and he just said he was fine…

Lol in that case then that player is hopeless. Hopefully he realizes that him dying constantly isn’t ALWAYS his team’s fault. Some people never learn though

Sir Vincent III.1286:

randomfightfan.4091:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Glad it works for you! I rarely build without 30 in SA myself. One question though, why 30/30/0/10/0 and not 25/30/0/15/0? Not a criticism, just curious!

He wanted Mug, Sundering, and Dagger Training — that’s why.

Typically 25/30/x/x/x is for non-Dagger builds.

You don’t need sundering for dagger build. Sundering is a prolonged fight trait. He’s a burst thief. Sundering is pretty much useless for him. Panic strike would be over 9000 times better. 4s immobilize (so those heart seeker spams can’t be dodged) vs 1% more damage to your burst before you run away. When I saw 30 in da I just assumed it was panic, didn’t even look. Now that I’ve looked at what they are I can safely say the traits are quite junk. Sorry op but they are. I suggest looking up other builds, it would make you a much better thief.

Don’t chew my head, I’m just stating where he allocated his points.

Sorry did t mean it like that, meant it as more of an extension to my original post :s. sorry if I offended, non was intended

jportell.2197:

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

Question for OP: this thread wouldn’t have happened to be prompted by a level 26 run recently, would it?

(Not that there aren’t lots of bad players out there)

Nope by a level 10 run….

What he meant by lvl 26 was 26 or bellow. Basically means the same thing but at least this guy was cool enough to realize he needed to work his way up. With experiences like that he’ll probably realize he needs a change of build for fraks so when he gets to higherevels, he’ll be prepared

Thanks for the reply! It’s nice to know these things are in place. I feel they make life easier for both the players and devs.

This exact reason is why I’m sad they took pub portal guns although I know why they did and can’t fault them for their decision. I’d run a hard part then use the gun to a close wp and get the team across no problem. At least In p2 and p3 I am usually able to grab a wp for the group while I speed through. Makes things real nice and easy. Still sucks I can’t wp people to the end boss in p2 anymore and p1 doesn’t matter cause it is easily done with 1-2 people if that’s what you need to do.

I don’t mean that in a mean way, just asking do they use their players to test out some content pre-release like riot does. Riot gave some of their players access to some content pre-release as a form of free testers, helping to find any bugs, and making sure some of the content was balanced and such.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Glad it works for you! I rarely build without 30 in SA myself. One question though, why 30/30/0/10/0 and not 25/30/0/15/0? Not a criticism, just curious!

He wanted Mug, Sundering, and Dagger Training — that’s why.

Typically 25/30/x/x/x is for non-Dagger builds.

You don’t need sundering for dagger build. Sundering is a prolonged fight trait. He’s a burst thief. Sundering is pretty much useless for him. Panic strike would be over 9000 times better. 4s immobilize (so those heart seeker spams can’t be dodged) vs 1% more damage to your burst before you run away. When I saw 30 in da I just assumed it was panic, didn’t even look. Now that I’ve looked at what they are I can safely say the traits are quite junk. Sorry op but they are. I suggest looking up other builds, it would make you a much better thief.

ShoeMoney.5249:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not very hard to be good with that build. Kill a target in 2 seconds, or run away. It doesn’t get much easier then that. Personally it just feels too easy for me. I love to use pistol/pistol as my main weapon set, with Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows as stealth triggers, while also stacking poison with shortbow.

Well I am happy for you that my build is “too easy”. I really had to work at it.

he has a point as you are using the main vs players build. If you were to get someone were to knock you out of refuge or anticipated your stealth or you just couldn’t escape w/e, you’d die fast. The immobilize on low hp target is amazing but it would make you a better player if you took at least 10 into shadow arts for the cleansing of conditions or at least put 5 into acrobatics as the only good reason for putting any points into that line is for feline grace. From acro you can get something better from any trait line except feline grace.

Also don’t feel ashamed or anything about finding mesmers hard. They are the 2nd worst class for a thief, 2nd only to guardian. They are even worse than eles. If you’re not in a pt, you can’t target the real mesmer and even if you were, the target is lost when they stealth.

Last thing about your build is it’s useless against anything other than players. If all you’re doing is pvp and wvw then ignore what I’m saying now but in against anything that doesn’t die in a heart beat you’ll have crap for dps as you have no good way of getting ini back. Since we can’t see what utilities you generally run, I can’t say for sure but you’d either be highly susceptible to damaging conditions or movement conditions or both. Against someone who is quick, with a class that can root you, you’d get eaten unless you are using all defensive utilities.

If all you do is wvw and pvp then ignore me and gj on your success

thanks lots all!

Been looking for weeks but it’s always contested wherever I go and I can’t uncontest it since no one seems to want to open it up. If it’s open anywhere I’d love to know. NA server ere

doesn’t make sense at all that dagger storm doesn’t work underwater. It’s the one that would be the best pick by far. Same thing like smoke screen doesn’t even work but if you get the trait that drops a screen on downed, it drops as intended

That sounds… incredibly useless. Can’t remember if I’ve ever got one from a chest though. Pretty sure just got them from the mobs.

Already can respec for bosses on the fly. Have to go to wvw but can still do it.

Is that it’s the ONLY high level dungeon that doesn’t drop ANY lodestones from the chests. Don’t tell me about the crystaline from the mobs b/c the only mobs that I’ve ever had drop the dust were from the world mobs at the very start zone. Not to mention that crystaline is the lode-quality drop that AC, THE VERY FIRST DUNGEON IN THE GAME, has drop in their chests.

CoE has Charged
HoTW has Glacial AND Corrupted
CoF is the reason molten cores are 3s

Arah is the funnest and hardest dungeon in the game. It should have some lodestone drop… or a random precursor after every 100 completions