It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?
Because that was totally the point of the video, about how to farm pips, and not about how the infrastructure remains terrible in GW2’s PvPz
He he had several points, such as long queue times for high MMR players, match-making over-valuing win streaks, and playing as a more random composition against organized premades using bunkers. However, the issue he emphasized and repeated the most was how the current system basically makes it so he will gain pips more slowly than less experienced players who are queuing solo/duo and those who queue in a 4-man premade.
So yes, if there was a single point to the video which stands out more than the rest, it’s that one. I agree this is currently sub-optimal for solo/duo queuing with a high MMR. However, I also understand there’s more to games than the fairness of digital rewards for winning, such as using a game as a tool for personal growth, learning new skills that apply even beyond gaming, increasing the response time of our minds, etc. Perhaps this is an opportunity for Helseth and the rest of us to shelve melodrama and learn that as well.
It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?
I like this change. Not wasting my steal because of pathing issues and using it right after my target stealths has been way more helpful overall than intentionally using it without a target for mobility. If S/D were better, it would really suck that we can’t do sword #2 with steal anymore though.
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Having more in-depth stats would reveal more about the effectiveness and strengths of builds. Some players play sub-optimal builds by thinking they’re holding their own consistently when we aren’t. Statistics could make this apparent and help encourage players to pursue builds with higher skill caps and longer-term effectiveness.
However, it also seems so likely that it would also change the way people play. For example, a player on a losing team might alter his play to pad his damage stats rather than attempting to make a comeback by playing the objectives. Players might zerg even more unnecessarily to obtain a higher kill stat to make it appeared they carried a team.
If this were to be implemented optimally, players would need to understand that statistics are empowering for knowledge and helping illuminate instances where our opinion doesn’t match reality. We would also need to understand they’re a very corrupting incentive for those who are still more concerned with appearing effective and skilled rather than being effective and skilled.
In my opinion, the game might be better off with more ambiguity about individual performance. GW2 works as a PvP game because it’s so heavily about rotations and teamwork. With fewer statistics, we’re more motivated to focus on winning through rotation, teamwork, and performing duties which won’t make us look incredible on a stat sheet but are so important to winning nonetheless, like stalling out a 1v2 on a node. With more stats, the concern would probably shift slightly toward looking good individually and this would promote a future gaming culture even more about personal ego than teamwork.
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It’s part of being a competitive player. From my own experience (in another game) as one, this generally separated the good from the bad. Learn from your mistakes, practice, and keep a positive attitude. You can make anything viable given the right mentality. Unfortunately the masses are not willing to improve, and thus we find ourselves here.
It’s much more than part of being a competitive player. It’s also about keeping ahead of the part of our brains which makes us devalue and get tired of most anything we get accustomed to. Being human presents a problem of continually attempting to maintain certain standards of feeling well. GW2 is essentially a tool which can be used to help address this issue of needing to feel well.
What I’m curious about is if someone like Caed makes better use of GW2 for satisfying this purpose than the players who are more preoccupied with balance or the lack-thereof. By focusing some of his time on the removal of bad-habits and putting himself in situations he would like to test himself in, he’s continually changing his experience more quickly than other players which may make GW2 easier to continually enjoy.
What I’m REALLY curious about is what happens after people leave the game and are faced with other aspects of society that are similar to the issues we experience in GW2, such as a seemingly unfair or “unbalanced” part of our jobs, of a government ruling, etc. Will we continue to complain/blame and hope for the best? Use it as a challenge for getting more out of ourselves? There’s a whole culture being shaped and reshaped out of these kind of decisions, and I don’t think enough people realize it.
Wow, I, uh, kind of got off the rails of the thread. Sorry, Caed!
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Great suggestions. Yes, please.
Staff is as viable as it is largely because of the sustained damage provided by Staff Master. They could resolve the the damage issues of non-staff weapons by simply expanding Staff Master to effect all Thief weapons.
One of the most interesting aspects of this thread is how unwilling Caed is to say Thief is bad and how willing so many other Thief players are to label our class as bad. It would seem that part of the reason Caed has become so good at Thief is because he rarely blames his class. Instead, he looks at how he plays and takes more responsibility for his game than most. The sad part is some of us are looking at this like Caed is biased in a way which prevents him from accurately gauging how strong or weak Thief is rather than looking at ourselves like we’re biased against pushing ourselves to improve as players despite possible limitations of our class.
Ultimately, it’s partly a philosophical issue and Caed’s current personal philosophy seems to work considerably better than most of ours for improving as a player. This Q&A is an opportunity to learn more about this. This a better direction to take our responses than nit-picking and arguing as though Caed saying Thief is not good but also not bad will undermine the game’s future balance changes.
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initiative is not the problem.
thief is too weak to condis,
suspectible to blind and weakness,
has bad weapon skills,
gets countered by scrapper,chrono, rev, dh, tempest and is outsustained by reaper, druid
Initiative actually is a bit of a problem for PvP. By having such a limited amount of it, it puts the developers in a position where they must make Thief ability damage high enough that using a limited number of effective attacks will still be effective. However, it also forces them to limit our burst damage to prevent Thieves from being able to near instantly kill players like we have in the past. By sticking with the same limited amount of initiative, the game has been developed in a way that makes Thieves good against some other highly offensive builds and very poor against most of the more defensive builds. Increasing our initiative return could make Thief way too strong if certain abilities are left as they are, like Vault. However, it would also allow them to make Thief combat more dynamic and sustainable. Thief needs this kind of change if they want to bring us up to the level of most of the newer elites and they don’t want to buff us in a way that will lead to one-shotting other offensive builds like straight damage % increases would.
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A simple guide to wasting one’s time with insults over constructive problem solving in GW2:
Step 1) Identify the abilities a class most frequently uses to succeed, such as Revenants using blocks, dodge rolls, Glint heal, and Unrelenting Assault to hold a point or quickness and auto attacks to take a point. These are “core mechanics”.
Step 2) Decide that insulting other players is far more important than becoming more skilled as a player by learning counters and informing other players of counters if they are too easy to defeat. To perform this ineffectiveness most effectively, forget that the abilities in question are core mechanics and call them “spam” for how frequently the class in question will generally use these abilities.
Step 3) Pat yourself on the back for having done little to help yourself or others grow as players and contributing to a more corrosive, less skillful, and less enjoyable gaming culture. You’ve earned it!
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My biggest issue with watching GW2 sPvP events is they try to show us everything that’s going on and it’s too much of too little. We get to watch one team fight for 8-10 seconds, someone running to decap for 2 secounds, a cele vs cele 1v1 for 4 seconds, back to a team fight, someone getting stomped on an edge node for 2 seconds, and repeat. When compared to watching players who stream games from player-hosted tournaments and scrimmages, it’s also much less interesting. In those videos, we can focus on the player streaming the match and we can hear the communication between himself and the team. This simplifies the viewer experience to focusing more on one class and their communication can reveal a lot about the game’s strategy. It narrows the scope of the viewer and does so in a way which is simpler and more personal.
Caed once streamed a scrimmage between The Abjured and his team at the time. It was really exciting because by being able to hear the communication and focus on Caed, the games seemed like less of a 5v5 with a lot going on. It became more of a cat and mouse game between Caed and Magic Toker as they attempted to out-rotate one another. This was easier to follow, revealed more about the nuances of GW2 (particularly D/P Thief), and for me at least, was more demanding of my attention because ultimately, it told a story. When I watch sPvP events now, I’m disappointed because I want to see more of this. I want to know more about Helseth’s struggles and successes with escaping focus fire. I wanted to see more of Edison and Kim Possible attempting to out-rotate and burst the much slower, tankier composition Radioactive was attempting to defeat them with. There are stories in these games and we aren’t getting to read much into them nor are we having them brought to our attention by the commentators with the current format.
Currently, GW2’s accessibility to sPvP events in fantastic for seeing what builds people are using and witnessing the outcomes of fights, games, and tournaments. However, it can also be so much more and we the viewer can learn more about how and why a fight, game, or tournament was won. To me, that’s what’s most compelling and what would keep me coming back for more over the alternatives for this form of entertainment.
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They could make the daggers thrown by Lotus Training affected by Dagger Training.
Can I get a link?
Sizer’s whole team look outmatched but he and the the zerker hammer Rev certainly stood out as the most easily pressured. They’d get focused by the condi necro running the condi duration amulet and the DH. It seemed to take one True Shot or a couple LB auto attacks and a condi well to put either of those two exclusively on the defensive.
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Downed state mechanics don’t ruin PvP. They ruin the one-man-army aspect of PvP and make it almost solely about teamwork. ROM will stream his games from 2v2 tournaments and it’s fascinating to watch because often he and his teammate will just be initially downing one of their opponents to force out cool-downs. They generally wear down their opponents to the point that they don’t have a stability or an invuln and ROM or his partner can save a fear to perform a successful stomp. It’s like a mix between the pace of a fight in an FPS game while also retaining some elements of a more strategic game like chess. Downed state is such a cool mechanic for highly coordinated team-play but it’s also flat-out awful for when we’re playing solo/duo against a larger group using mic’s. Overall, it’s not good and it’s also not bad. It’s a trade-off and one that’s heavily biased toward teamwork and coordination. Ultimately, the mechanics of GW2 are built to encourage us to treat PvP like a 5v5 e-sport and to punish us for resisting this kind of play. It does suck that they haven’t included options for alternative versions of PvP, like death-match without downstate, but perhaps that’s something they could include in the next expansion.
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With D/P, a lot of it is about continually finding the other team’s more offensively built players and focusing them. It’s also about limiting the amount of time you’re in melee, particularly when there’s multiple people around. If there’s just a single person, you can make melee fighting much easier by trading blows when they’re debuffed with something that makes their ability to counterattack considerably weaker, such as weakness, blinds, stun from Basilisk Venom, daze from Steal, and the slowing effect from Impairing Daggers. Bound can be used to make dodges a form of offensive pressure. Dash is also good for easily disengaging when a debilitating effect has worn off or been countered with an ability.
Overall, D/P is very hard to learn to play well because it’s best defense in a small skirmish, particularly against other Marauder types, is to fight extremely aggressively. This is difficult to do without understanding the class mechanics of whatever you’re attacking because there are so many forms of invulnerability and crowd control. Against more experienced players, this also involves understanding their own personal tendencies as well (although hopefully the matchmaking won’t make you play them anytime soon or too often).
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The most basic part of why players are toxic is because digital characters and text isn’t enough to register that a player is a person in our brains. People actually need to see someone’s face or hear the tone of their voice to be automatically empathetic. This is because part of our brain determines how other people are feeling by calculating their emotional state from physical appearance or how they sound and making us feel the same way. When we don’t have these made available, we no longer instinctively sense how others are feeling and we don’t treat people like people.
Beyond that I’d say it’s a combination of cultural negativity toward video games, particularly in America, and that people who spend a great deal of time playing a video game are partly doing so because they’ve been unable to find similar success in other parts of life. Thus, we play and partly dislike ourselves for doing so but instead of challenging the cultural norms about video games or withdrawing from playing video games, we play and take part of our inward negativity out on other players.
We’re also generally just really unaware that if something isn’t being done the way we would like, name-calling and excuse-making isn’t exactly the optimal way of pursuing improvement. There are even philosophers who theorize about how because American culture is still so heavily based on individuality, we might be encouraging unnecessary disagreement because it’s seemingly easier to standout as a person through disagreeing with others than agreeing.
Anyhow… why so toxic? Ignorance. Lots of ignorance.
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That screenshot is so messy! To be fair, a lot of stars had to align to make that kind of difficult-to-follow fight happen. It required a DH on both sides, Orange Logo preferring to engage in large team fights (especially on Nifel), TCG choosing to play a comp specifically for large team fights, and both DHs using the LB 5 simultaneously. Still, they really need red team traps to be red to make it easier on the viewers and for us newer players to the game.
Very cool idea! In addition to providing greater access to stealth openers, it would give non-D/P builds a reliable way of leaving a fight and sneakily decapping a point in sPvP or avoiding a group/zerg in WvW. It would also make it easier to drop Shadow Refuge in favor of something more helpful in a fight. You’ve included plenty of limitations, particularly the 1s cast time, and trade-offs to help keep it from being too strong.
Zdenny, if you’re going to criticize someone because you don’t think they’ve done something well, you should at least attempt to criticize them well. Right now you’re just asking to be ignored.
Hi, Caed. Have you had trouble with players becoming better at timing their attacks to land during the ~1/4 sec during Vault where we aren’t evading? Also, have you had trouble with Revenants who fight Staff Thieves very defensively (basically rotating between blocks, Shiro rolls, dodge rolls, and Glint heal to buy time between Unrelenting Assaults)? I’ve found Staff to be sooo much better against teams that have 4-5 cele, soldiers, and/or bunker builds. However, I generally still play D/P because players with more offensive builds have been nailing me with CC and bursts during my Vaults. Also, Revenants are learning that without stealth I can’t maintain the dodges necessary to continually counter UA unless I interrupt it with Steal and get Improv to reset a utility like Blinding Powder, Signet of Agility, or Roll for Initiative.
You are playing more skilled players than I am more regularly, are more inclined to 1v1 and hold point than someone of my skill level, and have mostly stuck with Staff despite probably facing these counters more often. Have you had similar trouble? If so, how have you adapted your play to counter or play around these counters to Staff?
dash – remove 3 condition which are most hated by thief
trick withraw and RFI – will remove those 3 and 2 more if traited
stealth SA – will remove dmg conditions
SS – remove 3 condition
sword#2 remove 1 condition can be spammblethief got less massive condition cleanse but can clean with a lot of skills
so guard may cleanse every 40 sec with 2 skills F2 and utility but thats it usually
We’re also one of the harder classes to apply conditions to in the first place (at least when we’re not trying to brawl).
They could make Backstab do more damage as one of the benefits of the trait Dagger Training. They could also or instead make Dagger Training increase the cast time of dagger’s 3rd auto-attack.
Oh! And THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS AEGIS! This is a fantastic and comprehensive summary of current Thief issues and I hope if someone takes the time to see what players think about Thief and GW2 in general, they’ll read this.
It would be really cool if they gave Acrobatics some sort of identity, such as granting boons and increasing the duration of boons! They could even have a trait where we were granted a single stack of Might when we use a dodge. They could call it Power of Inertia or something like that!
Nearly poetic!
I do wonder whatWe seem to currently have a lower ceiling than other builds.
means though.
It means we don’t currently do enough well enough to justify a role in a more competitive and/or optimized situation. It’s kind of sad too because Daredevil is such a cool addition and it can be so strong against the less optimal and sustaining builds with D/P, S/D, and Staff (even D/D condi has its moments now!). In fact, it might be so good at what it does in the right hands that people are switching from their initially preferred power builds to bruisers, DHs, and Heralds. It’ll make ESL games fun to watch because with such a strong bias toward specific compositions, it’ll be more about mechanics and decision-making than perhaps ever before. Unfortunately for us, however, it’s proving to make Thief, or rather the initiative mechanic of Thief, obsolete. Sustain and team-fighting is of such greater importance. The funeral people did for this class was premature but also seemingly clairvoyant.
Unless your friends are trying to beat the CoF path 1 speed run record time, then why do they care if you’re playing a thief?
It has to do with a player’s motivation. Some of us are more inclined to min/max and use what we find most effective rather than what we find humorous (although perhaps not so inclined to min/max to switch to Revenant just yet). If you aren’t this way, the best way I can think of describing it is it functions like an itch. If I play a “fun for the sake of fun” build which is in no way concerned with increasing my chances of winning, it’s like invoking a terrible itch and the only way to make it stop is to switch to something more effective for accomplishing a goal, such as winning. An easy way to tell where people tend to fall within this spectrum would be to see their responses to a trait like Ricochet, which was enjoyable to many for a variety of reasons but by no means close to being optimal.
We seem to currently have a lower ceiling than other builds. Although this has been my experience from playing Thief in sPvP, I primarily base this conclusion more on how pro teams have shifted away from using Thieves in tournaments and how considerably more effective pro players are with some of the newer, non-Thief elites. Just watching Phantaram, Sindrener, and Tarcis play Revenant paints a rather night and day kind of comparison when their effectiveness in Unranked games is compared to Thief streamers, like Caed and Sizer.
I’m not certain how the developers could miss using such a tool for comparing the effectiveness of classes. I hope it’s not because they aren’t especially passionate about their occupations. That would be rather sad for both them as well as those of us who attempt to use this game and the Thief class as a means to healthfully challenge our minds. Either way, if you play Thief and stick with this game, you’ll probably find yourself in a position where you learn to expect to contribute less in a variety of situations. If that doesn’t sound enjoyable, I would suggest taking up a different class before you get too attached to Thief mechanics.
Shadow Refuge providing Protection would be a fantastic addition.
DH is kind of strange because everything people say about them is true to an extent.. At times, they’re incredibly strong and at others, they can be easily focused out of a fight. Part of this is certainly the skill of the DH and those attempting to down him, but I think it also speaks to some poor aspects of how DH and their traps are designed. They’re just so effective in disorganized team fights and yet still so simply countered through teamwork. Even without changes, DH will get progressively weaker as we play them more but they’re also probably preventing newer players from enjoying and continuing to play sPvP. Their design isn’t necessarily bad balance, especially at high levels of competition, but it does seem unhealthy for a game that’s attempting to expand its PvP scene from the ground up.
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Thank you, Overworld. That helps put everything in perspective.
D/D condi can actually wreck a necro because of how difficult it is to land a transfer against that many evades.
+1ing as a Thief isn’t dead. It’s actually gotten a whole lot more offensive. BP + Bound + Steal + Backstab is a harder hitting version of our old max burst combo. Bound also being our evade removes a chunk of the old counter-play to BP + HS. And staff? Staff has so much potential to just delete people all while evading. Vault is like a weaker Whirlwind that can be spammed.
So here is the thing,
Short bow 5 on thieves has been a thing for kitten years….
they never added a CD to it, and that skill doesn’t require a target at all !Here is revenant, and days into it they added a kitten CD to one of the only gap closers revenants have, even though the skill requires a kitten target to actually be used.
This is why I don’t understand a.net !!!
Shortbow 5 has been abused for years as a disengage by kitten thieves….
and they never prevented it’s continuous use, by adding a CD.But God forbid revenants can keep up with a thief, hell no that is an outrage !
let’s nerf that kitten !
This is actually a complaint of some Thieves as well. Most of our classes inability to 1v1, particularly while staying on a node, is based upon keeping us from being overpowered with our current mobility. If you speak with Thief players, you may still find a few who would rather function more like a zerker warrior with stealth than play the short bow metas. However, I suspect if they’re still playing, most would have switched to Revenant… even with the incredibly short CD added to Phase Traversal…
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Becoming good at duels absolutely makes you a better 5v5 player. It just doesn’t make you automatically better, nor does it completely replace the learning curve for 5v5. For 5v5 with playing time being relatively equal, the hierarchy for skill would generally unfold like this: Guy who duels and plays 5v5 > 5v5 only player > Duel only player.
I would love this change especially as a Thief. Right now, it’s basically insane for us to, say, attempt a rez with more than one person capable of cleaving around and increasing our HP would make that a bit more practical. Bunker guardians have also become very easy to kill compared to the past.
Daredevil, Trickery, and Acrobatics (more dodges, fewer condis) or Deadly Arts (more condis, can reset utilities with Improv for high up-time on dodges). For what seems like infinite db and dodge spam, the Thief will need to use Runes of Adventure (50 endurance on heal) and utilities like signet of agility and RFI. The Thief playing this build cannot dodge infinitely, even if traited for maintaining as much initiative and endurance as possible. If he is spamming his db and dodges, he will eventually run out and need to leave the node, although it can take quite some time for this to happen (15+ seconds and more if Acro or Improv procs a dodge utility).
It can be strong but it’s also very easy to play around, particularly because it’s very weak in team fights, kills itself on retal, can’t stay close enough to apply the number of condis necessary break a cele class (especially if they kite with high swiftness up-time). To fight 1v2+ without depleting his initiative so much that he can’t eventually escape, the Thief needs to briefly space out the dodges which leaves him slightly susceptible to CC’s landing. Being immobilized even for for a second can be long enough to almost immediately die if 2 people are attacking. It can be very fun to play, particularly because the play style is so different from most Thief builds, and it’s hilariously strong against impatient Revenants. There’s just such a low skill ceiling on it that’s it’s hardly worth it to play it as a main build, especially since you’ll promote some poor habits as a player from how easily it beats newer players. Nonetheless, when it works, it works very well.
Herald Revs seem like a class that does too much too well. Playing a Rev like Phantaram is especially depressing because he has the dodge rolls, blocks, heals, and available node survival tricks mapped out in his head so as to best avoid damage for as long as possible. Granted Phanta is a pro and without double energy sigils and Herald, he would probably die more easily than I do on my Thief. The small nerfs to them so far seem to reflect that the developers understand this about Revenants, or that they’re listening to people who do. I don’t think we should be especially worried about balance over, say, improving our game-play.
For sPvP, you’ll be fighting builds that either don’t have enough sustained condi removal to be fighting you for a node or builds that require you to have the most optimized balance of offense and defense in your build because of how much sustain they have. Against players without sustained condi removal, it doesn’t really matter whether your build uses DA, Acro, dodge-centric utility skills, or burstier condi utilities because they all can work.
However, Against scrappers, d/d eles, reapers, cele druids, and other bruisers, it’s really important to both sustain your dodges as well as maintain a certain quantity and quality of condis being applied on the target. To accomplish this, you would need to take DA over Acro for the posion proc on daggers hits, weakness on posion, and improv. You would also need to take agility signet and RFI over the condi utilities like caltrops, needle trap, and impairing daggers. Improv even allows Thieve’s Guild to reset well before the 3 minute cool-down is up.
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They could increase the range on Pistol but reduce it’s damage from 900+. They could also leave the damage the same but make attacks have a 30% chance of missing or 50% of delivering a glancing blow from 900+. This would solve the issue of people throwing magical hammers farther than people shooting bullets, while also keeping it impractical to play Thief solely as a ranged class.
That’d be awesome. Well, any kind of communication between player and dev would be awesome, but that’d be especially great if they provided a guideline like class vision and it was one we mostly agreed with.
That depends a lot on what class you’re comparing us to. If it’s Scrapper, Druid, and Herald, I agree that mobility isn’t as justified, particularly on a small map like Kylo where Phase Traversal covers half the distance between nodes. Prior to the expansion, the mobility was essentially always justified and now that it might not be, it’ll be especially interesting to see what Thief/Rev players like Toker do in the future. Maybe he’ll switch to Thief on a map like Temple, particularly if sustain gets toned down, or maybe they’ll stick with the same comp they used last Sunday.
In PvP, their goal would appear to be to strike a balance between our mobility and our ability to contribute to various kinds of fights. The pattern of their adjustments would seem to suggest they’re more than happy for Thief to be the most mobile class in the game and that this privilege should come at the expense of our ability to participate in sustained combat. I don’t think they’ll express this goal or how to best achieve it in a direct conversation with us on the forum because as a whole, we’ve generally been too caustic and presumptuous to productively have such a conversation.
It’s an issue of skill. What they may lack in ability to balance the classes in GW2 in a way that’s enjoyable for everyone is well overshadowed by what we currently lack in communication and problem-solving. For this to function more smoothly, something needs to change and that something starts with us.
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Only if you’re referring to the noun “improvisation” and not the GW2 skill “Improvisation”. The definition of the noun doesn’t involve random chance but the definition of the GW2 skill certainly does.
I’m just going to call poe’s law on this cause wow
Haha. The irony of the most rational statement I could think to respond with being interpreted as a joke is not lost on me. (I like to read books and articles whose authors basically argue over semantics with their friends and colleagues for the same reason a weight-lifter would lift weights. What you interpret as a joke, or some form of trolling, is really me attempting to compel my brain to make connections so as to make them faster than I would otherwise.) Nonetheless, if you’d like to approach my disagreement as an attempt to one-up or troll you, that’s a very unfortunate presumption to end a conversation over. You call Poe’s Law on me. I call ignorance on you.
Ground-target seems more cumbersome than making it affected by camera angle, like how Heartseeker currently is. Although the devs might feel that might be too strong or at least too strong at quickly and easily killing newer player, which is historically a big no-no for them.
If you’re not running sigils, runes, or abilities that proc on crit, then precision is just a passive increase to overall damage and you can use however little or much you’re comfortable with. If you are running sigils, runes, or abilities that proc on crit and/or are concerned with maximizing, then precision is much more important as both a passive increase to ability damage as well as slightly increasing the frequency of on-crit effects. He likely mixes dire with sinister because he feels he may be unnecessarily tanky with full dire or too squishy with full sinister. My understanding of PvE Thief is we should gear for damage and rely upon dodges and movement for survival over gear. However, I’m also a very limited in my PvE experience and have none whatsoever in the content that supposedly can’t be survived with just timely dodge rolls. Nonetheless, I hope this is helpful.
Only if you’re referring to the noun “improvisation” and not the GW2 skill “Improvisation”. The definition of the noun doesn’t involve random chance but the definition of the GW2 skill certainly does.
We already have 1200 range. Just look at Steal!
Also; lol at saying the fix posted was a nerf… It clearly wasn’t doing what the trait said.
Some of you need a dictionary.And you need a course in probability 101.
Before the fix, the trait “rolled” everytime to choose 1 out of 5 categories, so 20% prob. for each category skills to be insta recharged.
After the fix, the trait rolls to choose 1 out of 6 categories, so 16.67% prob. for the insta recharge of a category.
So yes, it is a nerf.
Incorrect.
I understand probability just fine.
You need a dictionary, or to head back to English class in grade school.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Improvisation
“You can use stolen items twice. One random skill category is immediately recharged when you steal.”Physical skills, are in fact, one of the skill categories available.
This FIX, simply updated the trait to do what it exactly what it was originally designed to do.
This FIX was not made to lessen the effectiveness of this trait; nor did it modify any functionality of this trait. It simply added a skill category that up until Friday was not accessible to thieves.I’ll give you I’m arguing semantics, however, it’s important to use the correct vocabulary.
Also to note; I am of the strong mindset that this skill should NOT include physical skills if the player does not have DD slotted.
It’s a nerf when a Thief doesn’t run DD. It’s a nerf when a DD Thief doesn’t run physical skills. Thief players generally call it a nerf because we generally fall into one of these two categories. Is this description satisfactory for correct vocabulary and accurately describing the outcome of the fix?
ATM thief has hard time melee in tpvp also diversity in play style
Like guard has range longbow
Good thief plays longer in his Sb than burst fast in melee
With all the aoe wells traps we can’t do kitten
It’s actually the opposite. The more experienced we become as Thief players, the better we become at recognizing each moment where we can dart in to melee and deliver spikier damage rather than the slower, milder hits from short bow. When do we have a hard time, it’s not so much because we’re incredibly weak, although we certainly are inherently lacking in large team fights. It’s because some abilities are probably too strong, like DH traps, or we just haven’t learned to expect and avoid them, like Chrono wells and the Reaper Death Shroud attack where they spin their scythe like a propeller and convert the aspiring warrior Thieves into downed Thieves.