Guild Wars 2

messiah.1908:

rennlc.7346:

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

we are not talking about the weapon rather the trait lines

p/p as weapon set is tricky to handle
i use it mainly in +1 and decap as 1 unload at the right time can put down any enemy from range
atm with all the block/reflect (mes,engi,ele,guard) its much harder to face them but i do have my moments when my team surprise i manage to come +1 fast kill and already at far decap it

Look, if I’m going to participate in this conversation, I’m going to need to keep this incredibly simple. Impact typically plays against players who are, for better or for worse, more experienced, deliberately practiced, and perhaps even more invested in the game than you currently are (or, at least, play like in your own videos). The nuances of the combat against the classes Impact will typically rotate toward to fight, particularly shatter Mesmers, condi Revenents, and other Thieves, present situations where the additional utility of DA is almost universally more optimal than CS (especially against other Thieves).

CS shines against opponents who react less quickly, utilize fewer of their dodges, don’t watch for opposing +1’s, and all in all are way more susceptible to immediately dying to the stronger opening burst of a CS build. These kinds of players cannot be found at or near NA’s tournament level while the players who necessitate utilities like panic strike, mug, and lotus training over more pure damage above 50% HP are the norm.

CS is, in short, a gimmick trait line in comparison to DA when playing GW2’s more practiced players. Those players are the ones to build towards beating when talking about either the BEST builds and the BEST trait lines. At your skill level, Messiah, you ought to be more concerned with learning from experienced players like Impact rather than debating against them (I am also sorry for how acidic and snide this may initially come off as – assuming you don’t appreciate the bluntness of it).

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

Unless the DH is extremely new, there are so many things that need to happen for us to win, such as landing significant damage on the DH before they can setup on a spot where they can camp their traps, dodging into and right back out of each set of traps without getting hit by a single arrow, and having something to LoS behind to help wait out blocks and the aegis fragments. Once there’s a gap in their defensive utilities, we can win by trapping the DH in dazes and immobilize long enough to finish them through combining Impairing Daggers, Panic Strike, Mace Head Crack, and/or Impact Strike.

Basically, you have to avoid almost every combo they can land on you and eventually chain most of yours. This is easiest against newer DH players who are more likely to run more traps over defense, run berserker stats over marauder, miss their spear pull, and won’t know what Impairing Daggers is or what its casting animation looks like.

We’re probably all going to be in the same boat. Burst the necro fast, rotate away, or die. I imagine it’ll still be better than the current game.

Ferocity will increase our damage by a greater amount than toughness will reduce damage taken. Taking Paladin’s over Marauder’s decreases our overall efficiency in a fight and makes us less able to survive. This is mainly because our counter-pressure is less significant and our opponents will survive longer and be able to inflict more damage than toughness prevents. We’re balanced around hitting hard and infrequently allowing players to hit us back. Paladin’s is not optimized for this role.

Yes, please. Yes, please. Yes, please.

No more cele. No more cele! NO MORE GOD kitten CELE!

These changes are so awesome.

Jana.6831:

Should rennlc read the thread they’re commenting on?!

I did and for better or for worse I can’t ignore it as easily as I would have otherwise. There’s so much I want to understand about this that I currently don’t. Why can’t you switch to Staff or D/P? Why do you think these threads will contribute to your desired result? How is it that D/P is viewed so wildly different in your eyes than D/D? I feel as though I’m watching a form of purist operating without the holistic ideals necessary for other people to care immensely about helping see your goal become realized.

I feel for your ignorance and feel for my own as I presently lack the understandings necessary to get where you’re coming from and why. I suspect you’ll interpret the tone of my message as something more acidic than the tone of my actual thoughts and this will lead to further sub-optimal forms of disagreement. Alas, I’ve elected to ask my questions plainly and can now simply hope that if you’ll respond, you’ll respond more thoughtfully than impulsively. Either way, part of my attention is here and I’m keen to learn something from this.

Should Jana adapt to the present game or should the present game be adapted to Jana?

Favorite caffeinated beverage?

Doggie.3184:

rennlc.7346:

The HoT beta is almost over, guys!

You mean early access.

Aha! That’s a much better quip. xD

The HoT beta is almost over, guys!

anduriell.6280:

I don’t mean the thief is OP, actually i think the actual thief mechanics are fine and don’t need a nerf.

Only thing i’m asking is how to counter this kind of build, at least have one real chance to do it so in normal conditions, not like i have my glyph of empowerment, signet of the wild, Sick’em, entangle, RF and bristle ready to burst down the thief in the 6 seconds i have that thief revealed (that’s all my skillbar…)

A real way to have a chance to counter stealth, a mechanic for each profession so this is not a build you know you can not win against.

But as a druid you do have chances to counter stealth. Someone even took the time to list some of the counters for you in a previous reply. In fact, I’ll be happy to quote it for you:

rennlc.7346:

Revealed is not the only counter to stealth. Daze or knock them to both interrupt or prevent Black Powder, which they need to enter stealth, and to proc Ancient Seeds, which can also prevent a Thief from entering stealth. Do this repeatedly until they flee or run out of abilities that can remove the immobilize.

Spike Barrage from Bristleback and Rapid Fire will also track and continue to hit someone after they’ve entered stealth as long as they’ve started when the Thief is visible. Using them together can quickly finish a Thief who has already taken a small amount of time.

If you wish to become more skilled at executing these maneuvers sooner rather than later, you should do duels with your friends in a custom sPvP game rather than play WvW. This is because you’ll get more practice in a smaller amount of time and be able to better focus on skills you feel are especially important to have.

Was there something confusing or not agreeable about his post I could attempt to clarify?

anduriell.6280:

Anymoify.8132:

So he is stealthetd he is not doing any harm …. just leave him be …. Btw thiefs are great counter to pew pew rangers.

Perma-stealth Thieves are great countering almost anything. You can see in the video how 1 thief takes down 3 players in a moment and they can do nothing because there is no real counters to stealth/invisibility.

If you really think this is true (it’s not), then you should play a Thief yourself and see what players do against you. You’ll also see how stacking stealth diminishes the skills and initiative a Thief can use to fight players, and how limited Thief can be at winning fights without help (particularly against Druids). I think you think the grass is greener than it is.

AikijinX.6258:

rennlc.7346:

DD is better than core Thief in almost every conceivable way.

So a skilled DD and a Skilled Core Thief duel, Mirror builds. Who would win, and why?

I’m confused. If one Thief is DD and the other is using a core build, their builds would not be mirror. If you’re asking who generally wins in a 1v1 between a meta DD build and a pre-HoT meta Thief build, the DD would usually win because, among other reasons, the damage modifiers in DD are better than the ones in CS and Bound is just that good whether it’s used for its damage or for additional, uninterruptable stealth.

DD is better than core Thief in almost every conceivable way.

Revealed is not the only counter to stealth. Daze or knock them to both interrupt or prevent Black Powder, which they need to enter stealth, and to proc Ancient Seeds, which can also prevent a Thief from entering stealth. Do this repeatedly until they flee or run out of abilities that can remove the immobilize.

Spike Barrage from Bristleback and Rapid Fire will also track and continue to hit someone after they’ve entered stealth as long as they’ve started when the Thief is visible. Using them together can quickly finish a Thief who has already taken a small amount of time.

If you wish to become more skilled at executing these maneuvers sooner rather than later, you should do duels with your friends in a custom sPvP game rather than play WvW. This is because you’ll get more practice in a smaller amount of time and be able to better focus on skills you feel are especially important to have.

Ohoni.6057:

Again, that allows you to move in from 1200 range, but then you’re stuck there. If they add the Rifle, I would expect to be able to attack from 1200 range continuously, without ever coming closer than that.

You make that sound like a bad thing! From close range we can blind, interrupt, and/or deal more damage much more easily and with fewer limitations from reflects, LoS, projectile destruction, and enemy stealth. Melee is where the magic happens.

For winning a 1v1, which scrappers are designed to excel at, that’s pretty much it, yes. You won’t die instantly as you say but you’ll likely die before slick shoes dissipates. If they catch you with the latter part of the skill, they stand right on top of you, and you have steal up, it’s possible to daze them without knocking yourself down and escape as it fades. I’m not trying to suggest anything is perfect and balanced. I’m attempting to suggest what can be done with how things currently are.

We already have 1200 range options. They’re called Steal and Shadowstep.

If you run around unpredictably and force the d/d condi thief to change directions to keep after you, there will be at a minimum a ~1/4 second window where you can land a transfer as they reposition. If you get a fair number of condis on the thief, don’t attack them because each evasion will remove a condition. Although they dodge more than any other build in the game, they can’t dodge forever. The more dodges you make them use trying to catch up to you, the fewer they will have to kill you with. You can also stick to team fights where teammates can easily kill the condi thief with DH traps, slick shoes, air overload, immobilizes, etc.

Have you tried S/P? It’s not condi but for PvE it would use fewer cooldowns (if using signets for their passive effects) with less movement. It might be easier to play.

The current Improvisation trait got most of its value in sPvP through being able to reset Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder for more stealth rezzes. With additional reveal and AoE, these utilities have lost most of their value. Improv can still generally be more helpful in small fights against certain burst builds, particularly 1v1ing D/P Thieves. However, most of the time now, we just need more damage to secure kills and snowball more quickly. One of the biggest specific benefits of Executioner is it allows a timely Heartseeker to hit hard enough to kill a marauder Scrapper coming out of his passive elixir S with a critical hit.

Doggie.3184:

I love how slick shoes nearly always guarantees immediate death.

You can shadowstep out of slick shoes. You can also make slick shoes much more difficult to land by attacking directly into scrappers less often and less predictably. This can be accomplished by using tactics like using Bound/Vault to the front or front side of the scrapper instead of directly on top of him/her, dodging backwards out of shadow shot if you suspect slick shoes is coming, etc. Basically, if you can continually put them in a position where they need to chase you to land slick shoes rather than cut off one of your attacks, you’ll have a chance to react to it. The same tactic applies to avoiding gravity well, chrono shield #5, shield bash/head butt, impact strike, etc.

You can dodge it. We have a lot of dodges.

They say it doesn’t matter because they think it doesn’t it matter. Whatever stance you take on score, whether it’s closer to one extreme (“Best score = best player always!”) or the other (“Score means absolutely nothing ever!”), there are going to be plenty of exceptions to that rule. In my opinion, it’s more beneficial to look at GW2’s relationship between score and skill (and lack thereof) as an opportunity to learn more about the use and misuse of statistics than to attempt to determine a concrete answer on how important or unimportant score currently is in this game.

I like the revealed skills (although I imagine they’re really annoying for solo roaming in WvW with zergs around). In sPvP, they add interesting dynamics to the game, particularly when sneak gyro is the new engi meta. What I don’t like is fighting builds that have immense damage, damage mitigation, healing, and/or multiple invulns that need to be baited out. Learning to counter new skills is a big draw for me to play this game. Playing with a mathematical handicap against the current meta is not.

Silverbolt.2301:

Staff is fine? What are you playing? I think we’re playing a different game.

Staff 2-4 is garbage, and waste of initiative. The only time 2 is remotely useful is on PvE enemies with a MASSIVE hit box.

3 and 4 are a complete joke.

He’s playing GW2. #2 is fantastic when using steal, inf signet, or shadowstep to stick the entire whirl on a target, when people kite straight enough for all 3 hits to land, and for cleaving downed once the a player figures out how much windup space they need. #3 is fantastic against druid immobalizes and thieves who would rather +1 by using the immobalize on shortbow rather than meleeing into the numerous bounds and vaults. #4 is fantastic against other staff thieves and necros who prefer to counter vault by interrupting it with cc wells (hopefully it’s damage will be increased by the time the multi-hit bug on it is fixed).

About how many hours per week on average is plenty? (I’m not asking to judge you or anything like that. I’m asking out of curiosity about what choices and actions help players become good, great, or among the best. I’ll accept an answer in this thread here, via PM, or none at all if the question, or you not knowing me, makes you uncomfortable.)

You don’t need to depend on the game to find challenges for you, Sunfish. You could do more duels, 2v2s, or even practice specific situations like 1v2s and 2v1s on specific nodes. I’m sure there are plenty of other players at, near, and beyond your current skill level that would be happy to participate in custom games that focus on honing skills rather than waiting in long queues for a chance at league progression. I bet a bunch of the people willing to do this are already on your friend list.

Johneey.2965:

who cares? less abusers in the ’’league’’

I care. Prior to Spoookie changing their composition, they looked like they were going to run their bunker-breaking comp again. If they did, it likely would have been much more entertaining (and perhaps more effective). Their change to a bunker comp gives me one less reason to watch Pro-League when I’ve been so short on reasons to watch it already.

Daredevil is actually good but more situational and often just not as good as some of the meta builds. People are down on Thieves largely because in PvE all we bring is damage and in PvP, mobility and burst damage is frequently less useful against the defensive, team-fighting builds most players tend to play now.

If I don’t buy food to eat, I will starve and forfeit every future competition through having become deceased. Life in any currency-based society is “P2W”.

Whether or not they read it, thank you for taking the time to write this, Sajuuk.

Chaithh spoke against Minstrel’s after it was already removed. You’re asking us to remember something that didn’t happen, Yeti.

DarthDragonVanquisher.6912:

rennlc.7346:

No, you didn’t waste your time. By playing you’re regularly putting yourself in a position that encourages your mind to send certain kinds of signal faster and with less effort. This can translate into performing certain skills better, like driving a car, remembering times and dates, multitasking, etc. You only feel like you’ve wasted your time because your sole focus was limited to winning and advancing in the current league. Yes, the game could be made to be much better than it currently is. You can also make this much less of an issue for yourself by prioritizing your personal growth in all areas of life more than just wins and pips in GW2.

i love this so much hahaha Sounds to me like this is a player skill issue/ Life Choice issue

I didn’t write that to insult him. I wrote it to challenge him and help him become more aware of what he can do with even a flawed video game so he play it more healthfully. If it’s a life choice issue, it’s because he made the choice to focus on just winning without being aware of some of alternative choices and/or being aware of how much more helpful some of those alternatives can be (particularly when winning is difficult like it currently is in the PvP league). You’re appreciating my reply for the wrong reason, Darth.

They’re just wings.

As a viewer, I want to see these guys show-off as many of their skills as they can. The double Mesmer and Revenant compositions compartmentalize the game into executing a smaller number of skills. Thus, their presence severely limits Pro-League’s and its participants’ ability to entertain me. If ArenaNet wishes for me to take GW2 seriously as an E-Sport, they will need to make adjustments to Mesmers and Revenants as well as addressing small issues with Thief, huge issues with Warrior, and a mechanical rework of DH to make them less dominant against newer players and also more effective in league play.

kitten appearances. I would be happy just to be in the presence of a reasonable person. I could learn so much from him or her.

Premade teams of experienced players seem to be matched in games they should win so that they may win at least a few games before their queue times become too long to justify playing together. Beyond that, it’s irrational to blame the match-making for a teammate disconnecting because it cannot predict disconnects. Sometimes, kitten happens.

So….

If we continually focus on making systems easier to advance within for the sole sake of feeling good about having advanced rather than focusing more on becoming more skilled not just as players but as people, we will continue to perpetuate a culture which rewards rather than dissuades feelings of entitlement. If unchecked, this cultural attitude will spread and further promote and compel others to be less constructive, innovative, and concerned with individually acting in a way which may promote beneficial changes. With less constructive and innovative action overall, we will increasingly compel ourselves to pursue invention which is more about ease and comfort rather than the more ground-breaking improvements needed to address more significant issues, like preventing nuclear war, starvation, death from disease and famine, murder from increasingly radicalized religious beliefs, overpopulation, etc.

It’s promoting an attitude which will encourage us to be lesser people and could potentially undermine the pursuit of innovation that could save humanity (or at least some small part of it).

(I bring up the most grandiose aspects of this problem not out of a desire to insult you, but because I want this message to have a more lasting impression. Hopefully, I’ve succeeded in the latter and not undermined my credibility to you as a source of information by appearing to be someone who does the former. Have fun!)

No, you didn’t waste your time. By playing you’re regularly putting yourself in a position that encourages your mind to send certain kinds of signal faster and with less effort. This can translate into performing certain skills better, like driving a car, remembering times and dates, multitasking, etc. You only feel like you’ve wasted your time because your sole focus was limited to winning and advancing in the current league. Yes, the game could be made to be much better than it currently is. You can also make this much less of an issue for yourself by prioritizing your personal growth in all areas of life more than just wins and pips in GW2.

Azukas.1426:

Missed abjured game what was toker’s build?

I missed the introductions but it appeared he dropped Trickery for Shadow Arts. I believe that was because they were up against 2 condition Revenants.

It’s still fun watching The Abjured play. Chaithh’s had some simple but very informative insight into their games during the short interviews at the end. Spoookie was awesome to watch when they ran their version of a bunker-busting comp but with Caed gone and Mime going to bunker mesmer, that appears to be over.

This would make it easier to advance up to Ruby. It would also make it mean less to have advanced up to Ruby.

If it’s for PvE, there are generally more effective utilities for accomplishing a task than either of them. If it’s PvP, the reason for taking either of these utilities is hardly for the initiative gain but for their other effects, such as using as the signet with steal to catch an escaping player you would otherwise not be able to catch or using RFI to remove chill and create distance between a reaper in his shroud form.

Hey, Caed. Congratulations on the victory over Final Form. It was a very entertaining and exceptional performance by both you and the rest of the Spoookie roster. Something Shnicky said about you in the post-game interview he did with the commentators was “He knows when to play staff and he knows when to play D/P”. Could you elaborate on the type of maps, match-ups, compositions, and/or perhaps even players you would switch to D/P against?

Laserbolt.6731:

There are not enough players at your level for a competitive match, Collero.

This is my first time playing Ranked games in GW2. Even when solo queue, it’s usually a lot more fun than Unranked was before because so many of these games are just so close. People don’t give up as easily and I’m pushed to try much harder when comebacks are so possible. My biggest frustrations come from some of the match-making’s reactions to streaks. After several losses in a row, I’m often matched in the DH and condiburst heavy lower tiers where one team tends to face-roll another. After a win streak and usually when I’m a pip away from the next tier, I get fed to teams comprised of pro-league players with other solo queues making up the team I’m on. Despite this, the quality of games is usually much higher, the builds are more serious, and I feel like I’m learning more quickly for playing in Ranked than I would otherwise.