Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

ronpierce.2760

Or I’ll find their weakness and kill every single one of them on sight and then /dance. And say “GG, get a better class name!”

Come at me, bro.

((places another trap))

((Strafes lazily to the left))
… o.o

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’ll get over it and will just call it a “DH Guard” and never mention the full name again.

Or I’ll find their weakness and kill every single one of them on sight and then /dance. And say “GG, get a better class name!”

1. Lack of arenas.
2. The AI hate stigma.
3. Poor AI design (Uselessness in team fights, too passive, not active enough, bad AI)
4. Terrible design of Necromancer.
5. Power creep.
6. How stats are handled. (IMO, in a perfect world all amulets would be 2 offensive stats and 1 defensive or 2 defensive and 1 offensive) Might stacking celestial, pure glass and pure bunk are all pretty meh to me. A nice middle ground would be peach.
7. Moa… I have my reasons…
8. Lack of arenas.

Seems pretty conclusive honestly. Managed to get nearly 3000 votes. 56% are negative toward the name, 28% are positive and 15% neutral, and had a more diverse outcome than I expected. Doesn’t look real good for it though, honestly…

Give us Witch Hunter with main hand Pistol with a #1 skill called Holy bullet. o.o

Just saying… Pistol+Focus Witch Hunters would be a hunter I could have got behind. Just thought I’d share… Enjoy your Dragonhunters, friends!

Oh… And not traps… Maybe like, elixirs or something. o.O Make them fancy.

tico.9814:

It would attract a lot of wow players so why not do it, specially how awful wow pvp is right now at it’s current state. I don’t get anet’s filosophy of doing things sometimes.

That’s what I said… They have such a great opportunity AND set up (no need for grinding gear to be competitive)… It blows my mind that its not a priority… I’d flip my kitten if I was a higher up in Anet. Like yeah lets NOT take advantage of this great opportunity by introducing the most basic and popular game mode that requires only a few players to start up!

I can’t even…….. -breath-

choovanski.5462:

ronpierce.2760:

It doesn’t matter. If they ever do add it, it’ll be all “ArenaNetted” up… Like skyhammer or courtyard with like 100 bounce pads, glass panels, 90% LoS and no flat terrain. and thieves will be able to teleport from the center of the field to a spot that would otherwise take 3 minutes to get to. Its how they do “creative”.

a medium sized ring, with two opposite gates and a few columns (for LOS, to avoid duel lich, duel power ranger etc) is all ya need. a simple space to let the combat shine, with just enough terrain to make it interesting.

it’s not like it’s 20v20 GvG, it’s not that hard to implement.

Of course that’s all it needs. I’m not saying whats practical. I’m saying IF they did it, what they’d do. Then be like “SEE?! Its not even popular!” Whomp…

It doesn’t matter. If they ever do add it, it’ll be all “ArenaNetted” up… Like skyhammer or courtyard with like 100 bounce pads, glass panels, 90% LoS and no flat terrain. and thieves will be able to teleport from the center of the field to a spot that would otherwise take 3 minutes to get to. Its how they do “creative”.

Too stronk of idea. More Conquest for you, sir?

spoj.9672:

If were gonna slap more skills in DS how about some which are actually useful instead of more useless stuff. Like active defence skills?

A teleport is not useless.

Malchior.1928:

xgalaxy.7402:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only thing they’d have to watch for is activations on skills like Signet of the Locust, where they heal you… and it probably wouldn’t work in Death Shroud.

They could just add an additional caveat to these skills that says something like ‘While in DS this doesn’t heal’. Or ‘While in DS this restores X% of percentage of life force’ instead of a heal.

Guys, don’t complicate things. No caveats.

1. Give us healing through deathshroud.
2. Give us utilities in deathshroud.
3. Balance as necessary.

These three steps will get rid of the asynergy currently present between healing, leeching, deathshroud, our defenses and utilities.

Numbers can be tweaked later, but we NEED to stop BLOCKING our own skills and traits.

Why should both ds and our utilities only be usable in complementary distribution?
We are not super man, we are necromancers. NO OTHER CLASS HAS THIS DESIGN OVERSIGHT.

We should always be able to access our utilities,
And our mechanic should only be limited to lifeforce, and its internal cooldown.

I agree with this. I think we need to get down to the basics, then we can branch out. But before anything, we should by a properly functioning class. Additional balance, design and niches can be assigned after that.

JNetRocks.3652:

It was decided via reddit that the new specialization is the Arbiter. The Arbiter release today was pretty cool, after all!

But the rest of us here mostly decided on Sentinel.

What I wish I knew, but I highly doubt I’d ever get the real answer to, is was this even a little bit suspected as for the reaction, or did they really think it was going to hit it out of the park.

glock.6590:

Medi guard is countered by all 3 celestial classes and many other builds that arent meta. It dosent need nerf because as Sorel said it does have an advantage vs thief/mes so you shouldnt be screaming OP when it happens to be your counter.

I don’t really….. See a good Medi Guardian being overly “countered” by a shout warrior. They shout be able to out-pace them, I would think… I could see the other two.

Yeah, this doesn’t “ruin” Guardian. A guardian is still 100% a guardian if you chose. This is all about that… Name. :P

It should be Sentinel 100%.

sen·ti·nel
?sent(?)n?l/
noun
1.
a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.

TriggerSad.2597:

Just as an fyi, I posted a link to the poll on Reddit, just for a few more votes. May not make much of a difference, but who knows.

Voted basically doubled. Lol. Seems like 57% or so dislike it, a few love it/are neutral and a handful think it’s just okay. Seems like it’s pretty underwhelming overall. Is it enough to make them change it at this point though? I’m not sure. I mean… They do have some art already associated with the class (skins and I’m sure specialization based artwork). I don’t know but I sure hope so…

Arken.3725:

Little off-topic but…a little surprised to a Necromancer so heavily interested on the Guardian changes.

It’s all about justice. I love everyone. Except Engineer…

Obtena.7952:

ronpierce.2760:

Arken.3725:

It’s a fine name honestly. Anything bland such as “Paragon” has no imagination attached to it.

Personally I much prefer “bland”, symbolic and to the point over cliche, personally.

For some reason, Dragonhunter reminds me of like 13 year olds in WoW with character names of like Sephirothlol, XxDragonslayerxX, LegolasX. Stuff like that. Very cringe worthy. x.x

Most people will get over the stigma of a name. I mean, think of all the other dumb names in all the games you’ve played. You shrug it off. Besides, no one is going to stop calling the class the ‘Guardian’ class. If my foresight is working, if the game lasts long enough, we will have access to MANY specializations for each profession. Dragon Hunter may just be one of many for Guardian.

Yeah, DH will be one of several. But I do think people will use its actual class name as they said they will have specific Icons. Icon recognition will secure proper name calling. And sure, it could be shrugged off. But why shrug it off when you can make it better?!

Genesis.8572:

Pitched Reason: “Being stuck with the name ‘Dragonhunter’ for your specialization.”

I knew if we work at it long enough we’d come up with an unquestionable reason why a base-line class is best. +1

Arken.3725:

It’s a fine name honestly. Anything bland such as “Paragon” has no imagination attached to it.

Personally I much prefer “bland”, symbolic and to the point over cliche, personally.

For some reason, Dragonhunter reminds me of like 13 year olds in WoW with character names of like Sephirothlol, XxDragonslayerxX, LegolasX. Stuff like that. Very cringe worthy. x.x

Templar.3418:

Let’s try keep this straw poll thread up. Really wish to see what the majority of the community thinks.

I’m not sure the poll is even necessary, though it does speak pretty loudly for itself so far, the general reaction should say a lot. I’m wondering, though, if they have it in them to change it… I’d be impressed to say the least.

Only worry is that it opens a similar door for EVERY specialization to be super nit-picky. That said, I REALLY hope no one else ends up with something as generic and cliche as “Dragonhunter”…

Totbot.4583:

Meh, there’s a pretty big difference between “Dragonhunter” and “Doofy Butt-Clown”.

And if there was a class called Doofy Butt-Clown and it was a fun class that was powerful, I doubt too many people would actually care in the long run.

Sure, but it wouldn’t be ideal. That’s sort of the idea here. It’s somewhat early and little connection. If they were to change it ever, it’d be now. Some things have lasting impressions for old and new players too. Super cliche can be a real turn off and does sort of suggest lack of creativity. (For the record, I tend to be against the notion that EVERY MMO needs a “warrior” class.)

Totbot.4583:

Names are just names. Its insane how much people are caring about it. I’m seeing people saying they’re quitting their guard because of the name. I mean, really?

I can barely even remember the current name of our trait lines. For the most part I just remember, “Ok, my WvW build is 0/0/6/4/4” or something like that and look up the actual trait line names if I need to know them. They could change the names to anything and it wouldn’t make any difference.

Eh, it matters. People identify with a class and it’s purpose more than the specific specializations. If Warrior was renamed “Doofy Butt-Clown” it would likely cause some controversy and… Well it would either be less popular or more, not really sure… But regardless, class recognition does matter much in the same way people care if they are shooting arrows or fireballs or shadows.

PlatinumMember.5274:

They should keep the name solely for the QQ.

Also your strawpoll is kinda worthless since less than 10% of the pop. ever visit the forums. So you are getting the extreme minority.

True but the minority can have mixed views. It’s not like there is a direct correlation between using the forums and hating the name Dragonhunter, lol.

http://strawpoll.me/4303143

I’m not sure this will last, but I am pretty curious just to see where everyone sits in regards to the name “Dragonhunter”, wondering if it’s really as disliked as it seems or maybe if it’s just a vocal minority. Of course, it will likely be a little skewed still, but above all, I’m just curious as to how it will turn out, so love it or hate it, please vote!

DiogoSilva.7089:

Black Box.9312:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.

That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.

I don’t understand this.

Chronomancer is using Necromancer’s wells. Are they anything alike? No.

Dragonhunter has a shield arrow that absorbs arrows, winged leaps, revenant’s absorb wall, condition damage, support effects and no pets. This is completely unlike the longbow ranger. Yes, the teaser showed a barrage-like skill, and we know they’ll get traps, but it is unknown at this point of their actual effects.

Dragonhunter is quite a creative spec so far, imo, except its mediocre name. I mean, we’re talking about a leaping angel that shoots shield arrows. That’s not a ranger. That’s at chronomancer-level of awesome.

I think the teaser and the spec’s name are giving it a worse impression than what it deservers.

Yep. If the video had a slight bit more action and less waiting between skills and it was named like Sentinel or Vanguard of whatever, it would have been much better received. Technically speaking, it’s what most guardians have asked for. And frankly, I love it. The name though is god-awful…

flow.6043:

ronpierce.2760:

… based on logic ANet applied to engineer where they specifically said they made Grenadier baseline because they didn’t feel a trait should be a flat 50% damage increase.

I think the emphasis here wasn’t that traits shouldn’t increase damage, but the fact that having granades in your bar made Granadier a mandatory trait, as in: untraited granades are pointless.

With additional 150 cond damage and double duration either the trait will be OP or the base will be nerfed to needing the trait. The difference is too large for one of the other to not exist if 2 versus 3 grenades caused that much of a disconnect.

i wanna the “commented in thread” title…
because I am commented in the thread

Was a pretty good one. At least he didn’t over exaggerate in such a way that would be instantly obvious.

Anchoku.8142:

Yes, I was being sarcastic. The new LC seems strong but condition duration will not start with a free 20-30% form Spite, anymore.

I would rather scepter base damage and duration increase a bit, then have LC either buff scepter the rest of the way or add condition damage to other weapons like Barbed Precision. Keeping everything on scepter cripples build variety.

How many people ran spite? Weren’t most builds already 0/6/4/0/0/4? o.O

Regardless. You’re still ignoring everything I said. I had said +100% is too strong for A TRAIT. → Increase baseline, and make the trait less powerful on its own, based on logic ANet applied to engineer where they specifically said they made Grenadier baseline because they didn’t feel a trait should be a flat 50% damage increase. Mainly because if it was balanced, then baseline it must have been too weak.

Why is that so hard to apply here? o.O

It’s fairly simple. When the benefit from combining 3 base outweighs the benefit you get baseline from the specialization, and you don’t plan on using that weapon or utilities. This will likely happen more times than you’d think.

They could always add a Pure class baseline boost though. For anyone with 3 base specializations they gain some sort of baseline effect, couldn’t hurt, but I really doubt it’ll be necessary for people to still run baseline builds.

Unspecified.9142:

Before today Guardians were screaming how much they wanted longbow. They get a longbow that works like a longbow. Now everyone is complaining.

What exactly did people think Guardian Longbow was going to be?

Not a “Dragonhunter”.

Shiki.7148:

I think you all forget that traits do NOT award the free condition duration anymore. Which is NOT affected by changes in basestats, and if they do not up condi-duration on gear, it will be a LOT less than what it seems.

I think you’ve missed my point. My point isn’t the end result. Its that ANet specifically said they don’t want traits that just feel like they should be baseline and especially dont want one GM where it adds 50% damage out of no where.

Then they have a trait where, instead of increasing base durations, they make a single trait add damage AND doubles durations… Thats well beyond a 50% difference.

flow.6043:

nekretaal.6485:

All of the condition transfers will end up nerfed.

Transfers just copy the duration of the condition on you so they will be unaffected by Lingering Curse.
But yeah, 100% on LC would snowball into a balancing nightmare.

I even thought the 50% bleed duration on warrior was bad. 100% on all conditions when using a scepter is just silly… If they need that must of a boost, the base needs bumped up a bit and the trait needs to go way down (in both cases).

What ever happened to the logic behind Grenadier???? “We felt it was strange having a GM trait that effectively increased your damage by 50%.”

→ Trait DOUBLES duration and adds damage to conditions…
→ Trait adds 50% bleed duration.

Where is the logic?

Tobias.8632:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Ok, I agree with a lot of the article, necros need a lot of work, but this statement, "Necromancers only use minions when they’re new to the game and anyone who uses them outside of that is trolling or doing it ‘for the laugh’. "

kitten you article author. Seriously, don’t make this kind of incendiary statement. I have mained a minion master since GW1. I am more aware than most of how horrid the current minions are, but to imply my persistence in using them is me having a lack of knowledge, trolling or otherwise not taking my gameplay seriously is immensely insulting.

The fact of the matter is when you get past the many AI issues minions have they do in fact embody the attrition playstyle of necromancer better than most builds. Even with their AI issues they’re still meatshields and passive dps and provide far more in protracted fights than many other necromancer skills.

Again, I agree with a lot of this article and appreciate the intent of raising awareness of the issues we have but this ignorant attitude you have presented towards minions will only serve to drive others away from the playstyle that simply needs AI improvements to be more user friendly and universally useful.

You are deliberately sandbagging and playing the class below it’s already low effectiveness ceiling. You are intentionally using the wrong build. I think that falls under the “trolling” headline, whether it’s intentional or not.

It can be sort of effective in sPVP and roaming… As long as the enemy doesn’t have any AOEs, CCs, mobility, condition removals, or other types of area denial. :}

And the ground is flat.

coconutdown.6512:

This “DragonHunter” is the best joke I heard today ^^

It’s those kitten Chronomancers, turning time back to April 1st. Amirite? :P

Hexalot.8194:

ronpierce.2760:

Hexalot.8194:

ronpierce.2760:

Black Box.9312:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.

That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.

Not sure what you expected when they said they were going to be re-using other class utility types… Beyond that you have no idea what the skills will even do. o.o

Chronomancer says hello…

Yeah… Wells are a necromancer thing… Mesmer’s are also arguably better than Necromancer’s. So, hi…

Fair enough. Don’t know about Mesmers being better than Necros though… we have yet to see their new elite specs…

We saw what the wells do. pulsing slow on enemies and giving quickness, and causing team members to evade attacks and a gravity well that pulls things to the center alone per pulse alone provides more utility than what necromancer wells do. Necromancer wells don’t even have finishing effects.

That said, that’s what makes me think maybe Guardian traps will have something a bit different to them.

Edit: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-chronomancer-well-skills2.jpg
And these are untraited.

Hexalot.8194:

ronpierce.2760:

Black Box.9312:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.

That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.

Not sure what you expected when they said they were going to be re-using other class utility types… Beyond that you have no idea what the skills will even do. o.o

Chronomancer says hello…

Yeah… Wells are a necromancer thing… Mesmer’s are also arguably better than Necromancer’s. So, hi…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Morsus.5106:

Heck, just Demon Hunter would be better because Dragon’s are what everyone’s hunting. Dragon Hunter is in a weird place because everyone is hunting dragons. We have built an army for hunting dragons. It really doesn’t have anything to do with the Guardian.

I’m not a huge fan of the name but I wonder if people are interpreting the name wrong. It’s not a hunter of dragons but a dragon inspired hunter akin to a Dragon Knight. The elite is called Dragon’s Maw. The wings to leap with F2 for more “dragoning.” This doesn’t sound like someone that hunts dragons but is “becoming one.”

If this is a case, it’s more of the former white knights somewhat succumbing to corruption to fight fire with fire.

They sort of set that ball rolling making it kill a dragon in the video.

They did say classes with offhands would get a little more. Mesmer f5 will likely prove to be a double edged sword that many can’t handle properly (and will also likely get nerfed, along with alacrity, which sounded like its uptime wasn’t even that great). Also, much of that wasn’t even made aware of until Friday. Just wait until friday again… You literally have no idea whats going to happen.

The third isn’t likely for the same reason that they changed Grenadier. Would be cool if they had a unique twist like that to them though like double-jeopardy.

Black Box.9312:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.

That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.

Not sure what you expected when they said they were going to be re-using other class utility types… Beyond that you have no idea what the skills will even do. o.o

Technically speaking with the Longbow, and traps, and so on. Realistically, Sentinel makes the most sense, if I’m honest. And sounds about 300x less corny than XxDragonSlayerLegolasxXLULHuntr
sen·ti·nel
?sent(?)n?l/
noun
1.
a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.

Shiki.7148:

ronpierce.2760:

Ooo, oo. Hire me and Bhawb. We’ll fix it! #RonWillFixIt. :P

Just kidding. I have too many grudges against Mesmer (moa) and Engineer (constant love and attention) to be unbiased with power. I can give unbiased opinions and suggestions, but controlling the switches. I don’t trust me. :P

Which is exactly why a Necro main needs to be in on it – cause balance team has a few Warrior, Ele, and Guardian-Mains, and not a single Necro main. Guess what classes are awesome and sought after, and guess which one sucks? There just is nobody giving a rats kitten about Necro among the balance-team, so naturally flaws, bugs and problems don’t really appear on their radar, while other stuff on their constantly played professions gets found and sorted out more quickly. And of course some bias is always mixed in. Preferably there should be the same amount of people maining each profession on the team.

You forgot Engineer. -heavy breathing intensifies-

Ooo, oo. Hire me and Bhawb. We’ll fix it! #RonWillFixIt. :P

Just kidding. I have too many grudges against Mesmer (moa) and Engineer (constant love and attention) to be unbiased with power. I can give unbiased opinions and suggestions, but controlling the switches. I don’t trust me. :P

Justiciar.

Black Box.9312:

ronpierce.2760:

Teutos.8620:

cranos.5913:

They won’t work out great. It’s quite simple to beat a trapper build, you just don’t walk in it. We have disappointing skills and a disappointing weapon, no need for the “hey it may not be entirely useless” stuff.

You know, that you can (currently) throw the traps on the target to let them proc instantly?
Another great idea is to just stand ontop of them, so if a melee wants to attack you, he will get hit … wow, who would have thought of that?

Edit: Even just using them for stealth and superspeed through the runes makes low CD traps a great survivalability utility.

Yeah, not to mention wells get used. Wells are the same kitten thing but slower for full effect and WAY more visible. I think people are being silly honestly. If this class was named something else the mood would be much different.

Guardians already have great area denial in the form of symbols. The PROBLEM is that we have no means to keep enemies in them. Traps are not going to be of any use because it’s just more of what we already have, but even easier to avoid.

Except they aren’t really that much easier to avoid… The benefit of traps in general is that they are bursty. All it takes is one touch for its full effect. Plus you don’t even know what they do… “Wells” on Mesmer could have been anything and terrible. They turned out way better than necromancers in some cases >_>

Teutos.8620:

cranos.5913:

They won’t work out great. It’s quite simple to beat a trapper build, you just don’t walk in it. We have disappointing skills and a disappointing weapon, no need for the “hey it may not be entirely useless” stuff.

You know, that you can (currently) throw the traps on the target to let them proc instantly?
Another great idea is to just stand ontop of them, so if a melee wants to attack you, he will get hit … wow, who would have thought of that?

Edit: Even just using them for stealth and superspeed through the runes makes low CD traps a great survivalability utility.

Yeah, not to mention wells get used. Wells are the same kitten thing but slower for full effect and WAY more visible. I think people are being silly honestly. If this class was named something else the mood would be much different.

Pyriel.4370:

ronpierce.2760:

Knighthonor.4061:

ronpierce.2760:

While traps might be underwhelming. I think people are undeeeestimatng the significance of the virtue changes. That extra leap could make for a pretty good addition to LB/GS, Hambow or even more standard set ups. Remember not all parts of specializations are required.

that aim based spear may have problems like Flame Thrower kit does. thats my concern.

Also is that leap ground target or not?

I believe it said it was ground targeted. And they seem to get the mist wall shield from revanant hammer on their courage virtue. I could see the new stuff being pretty useful, honestly. Just avoid traps if you don’t like them, just like any other build. People still get 3 trait lines… Meditation Dragonhunters with more mobility and blocks? I cant imagine that not being successful. Especially if the new trait that makes the courage leap also deal damage when you land, the burst potential could be real.

Then all that work developing those traits etc is wasted and they shouldn’t really be on the guardians trait lines. Traps are majorly flawed for rangers and guardians are not the type to hang around in the background at all, that’s why we have all the blocks.

I wanna know who thought this would be a good idea. I get they tried to solve the guardian lacking a ranged wep and condi spec in one go but they didn’t need to, seriously, most guardians really only wanted a viable ranged wep while not really caring much about condi as condi sees very limited use outside of sPvP. I would have figured the guardian would have gone down the route of more shouts and chants (old paragon skill type, think channeled shout).

They had it right there, the paragon, right there, fully thematically designed with obvious paths.

Whether or not traps are useless are both another argument and to even be determined. They might work out great. MY point is that “Dragonhunter” itself is not innately useless all because it opens up traps. There very well may still be good uses for the line, even if your intentions are not set on traps. No line in the game forces a utility type, while some may enhance a type, it is still not the only use for the line.