Guild Wars 2

Laraley.7695:

Kicast.1459:

Laraley.7695:

Kicast.1459:

Worst: no contest possible => thief

Hard counter of plenty of builds
No hard counter
Spammy as hell
Very low risk / high reward
Worst of all: few to none counter play => instant gap closers / never ending dodging machine / stealth spamm / stupid mobility.
In the end a disaster removing any fun.

And anet wants to give double steal ?
Just for trolling I suppose.

Best design:
I like guard…it is not selfish … positive for teamates and fair for opponents.

You’re kidding me right?
Thief has no counter? How about almost every spec in the game apart from mesmer? High reward low risk? Have you ever played thief? It’s probably one of the hardest things in game. People like you do not understand the classes at all, especially when you cannot comprehend the nature of Improvisation.

Nice try, 2/10.

Oops…forgot to say thief has the toxiest community also

The word you’re looking for is ‘’most toxic’‘. However, that doesn’t change anything. What you said couldn’t be far from true. And sorry if you cannot read the trait, which never ever stated you can steal twice in a row, then yes it’s your fault.

Eh. It’s kind of true… In reality, no. Thief isn’t easy to play. HOWEVER, it does have the best tools to counter-act their weaknesses, effectively negating their “risk” in higher tier play. It’s the reason that (besides against Guardians) they’re one of the most powerful roamers. They’re highly mobile and can make up for their lackings, even if it isn’t easy and has a learning curve, once it’s met they can overcome their own barriers like no other class can. (Except maybe AOE a little bit. The new SA tree is looking rather promising though in those regards, since you will effectively be able to run 6/0/6/0/6).

So thats the problem… Yeah anyone can pick up thief and lose very easily. It’s squishy, no doubt. But thats the “risk”, but they have sufficient tools to reduce that “risk”, where as say, Necromancer has a risk of low mobility, they can’t even really make up for it because they also have the worst defenses, cast slow and require build up for defenses (LF) and are arguably one of the easiest classes to lock down. Hence it’s an actual weakness and “risk” of the class which cannot very easily be overcame by skill within their toolset.

I also feel like both Engi and Thief are the most defensive against nerfs when they could be pretty reasonable. Thief does have a lot of perks that thieves like to ignore when discussing the class.

HOWEVER, I also feel for them because they’re essentially only great at glass cannoning, and if they lose that, they would effectively become useless. But that’s sort of where the idea of “bad design” comes it. They’re good at one thing, have a pretty large skill gap, where on the low end they look terrible and the high end they’re one of the strongest 1v1 (and maybe even 1vx? wvw) classes in the game, and great at leaving a fight if things go poorly.

I’d consider that a design flaw, since their play style really doesn’t blend well with the entire REST of the game’s mechanics.

Summon minions?! Oh man, that’d be like the one thing that could rip me from Minion Master. :O

Spawn 2 raves, a wolf, a spider, a bear, and for elite… idk, a dragon :P
I’d totally use it.

Sentinel would have fit just as well and is better suited thematically for Guardian, longbow and the non-aggressive (no launch) style of their traps. And sounds a lot better.

Jungle Guy also fits the jungle theme, doesn’t mean it’s a golden pick for a specilization name…

I agree with 2/3. 1 is pretty silly sounding to me.

Sorean.5379:

We don’t even know if Druids are getting a new armor…

At least Dragonhunter didn’t…

Every elite gets 1 armor skin (head/shoulders/gloves depending) and a weapon skin.
- Chrono got shoulders and shield.
- Dragonhunter got Dragon gloves and a dragon-themed long bow.

naphack.9346:

ronpierce.2760:

Well, considering Regen was supposed to counter conditions and we gained a lot of stacking intensity conditions. Burst seems like it may get out of hand. I see no reason for Regen to not stack, BUT if it did, some durations might need to be adjusted.

Really this wouldn’t make regen OP, as it wouldn’t increase durations, the most that would happen is that the burst healing of it would go up (which offers more skilled timing) and less stream healing forever.

2 banner warriors with runes of dwayna(for 30% more regeneration duration) and cleric amulet camp a point. Both employ 3 banners. That’s 2145 hp/second from the banners alone. Factor in blocks, evades and healing signet and nothing will be able to punch through that healing.
There’s probably a smarter way to build it, with only 2 banners per player and some condi remove.

If it was made to stack, chances are scaling and durations would be changed entirely. You’re making a comparison that wouldn’t exist. Things would have to change. Also, there’s no innate rule that says if something stacks it MUST stack to 25. It could stack no more than 5-10.

Of course in the flip side, SO much is changing that it’s really not even worth discussing ATM. So much is in flux that ultimately we should just wait and see.

xDudisx.5914:

top well designed: ele and guard
ok: war, ranger and engi
bad designed: mesmer and thief

This is a set up, I can tell. But I’ll bite.

Necro?

uhohhotdog.3598:

Please please please no. WoW arenas were so incredibly unbalanced it was a joke.

Balance has nothing to do with success and popularity. Also, 2v2s have been going on in Gw2 for a very long time with lots of prizes. It just needs more officially supported. If GW2’s 2v2s and 3v3s are unbalanced, the problem isn’t Arenas, its that they need to work on their game because Conquest has LOADS of 2v2/3v3s. It shouldn’t be that must of a concern in a healthy state.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Lets not forget that you have to be wielding a Torch when it procs in order to throw the flame. The trait procs the portion of Zealot’s Flame that gives you the aoe burn. The toss is a free aspect that doesn’t have a cooldown because that’s normally controlled by the Flame anyway. You could run the trait without torch and still get the aoe burn procs without the ability to toss the flame. Its a nice, flavorful trait that really gives you a reason to run torch, but doesn’t necessarily require torch use.

Yeah, and that’s sort of the idea, really, which is why the needing to be crit part ruins it. It could be used in PVE and so on if it was on landing a crit and be very useful.

Not to mention, I’d rather not guardian fall into the same trap Necro has where core strengths fight with traits. A guardian’s major focus is blocking damage, so having traits based on receiving crits just seems very wrong. Balance could be met so much better by just working with the ICD or stopping it’s interaction with Torch 4 if that is the primary issue. But making it on crit received just kills the feel of the trait entirely…

Overall Ideas:
Special Note Non-Dragon Hunter Traits:
Radiant Flame – Revert to When crit, bump the ICD up slightly. Offensive trees being based around getting hit just isn’t fun play. Plus the change ruined the synergy with the specialization’s core specialty which is synergy with landing critical hits.

Valor – One of the Adepts should be swapped with a Major (I suggest Focus with the Shield traits). It would provide better synergy between traits. Right now the Master set is bland and too specific.

Dragonhunter Traits:
Defender’s Dogma – Bad trait all around. It sounds neat, but in reality, it conflicts harshly with Big Game Hunter where you would have your spear on cooldown fairly often, and has very little effect for build without blocks (which could essentially leave just F3 on a 90 second cooldown and/or Aegis from it every so often…) The impact is small in most cases outside of rather niche situations.

Pure of Sight – Guardian has SO many multipliers AND vulnerability. In PVE stacking is mandatory to get group buffs and thus would be pretty useless, and in PVP is seems too Longbow specific (or MAYBE scepter if people are literally standing still) which isn’t good for diversity.

Dulled Senses – It’s almost useful… Except it’s really not. Guardians have dreamed of some soft CC, yet its tied to something we won’t do a lot unless we combo it with a VERY specific trait. Not to mention, LB already has its own cripple (sort of). It needs other ways to be useful.
Suggestion – Make it cripple on Blind. (Rename it) Guardians have numerous ways to blind an enemy to provide great synergy, it lends well to making an enemy feel helpless, and generally opens the trait up for being a solid pick without forcing the Longbow too much, which still working WITH the longbow as it has a blind of its own!

Longbow
Deflecting Shot – Possibly slow it a LITTLE, not a lot, and widen it’s block area. It will already be hard enough to make great use out of it as projectiles can have strange “hitboxes”.

Hunter’s Ward – Lower the cooldown and reduce the duration of the gates a bit. Less “stunned for days” and more using of abilities would add to the gameplay overall.

Traps
Many cooldowns just seem really long… Guardian is a low-HP class, I feel it requires those utilities to be usable frequently to be effective and able to sustain themselves. Granted, they would still be very powerful in PVE, but for PVP I see them not being used as frequently.

There are my initial thoughts!

I think any remakes are being held until they do Elites for each class. Might help them pace feedback.

Well, considering Regen was supposed to counter conditions and we gained a lot of stacking intensity conditions. Burst seems like it may get out of hand. I see no reason for Regen to not stack, BUT if it did, some durations might need to be adjusted.

Really this wouldn’t make regen OP, as it wouldn’t increase durations, the most that would happen is that the burst healing of it would go up (which offers more skilled timing) and less stream healing forever.

Its in the offensive line, it really needs to go back to critical hitting… Breaking the synergy is how we end up with so many poorly designed traits in the first place. If it was too strong either bump thE CD or remove the activation of torch 4. But making it totally useless is not the answer…

spoj.9672:

Id worry that they would nerf the durability and duration of plague if they changed it though. Its duration is the one thing that makes it good. And lich would be hard to adapt in a way that would make most people happy.

Eh. Pulsing Might/Stability, some LF when hit (like other spectrals) and a secondary active while its up would be just fine. It would be able to almost turn DS into old Lich with the benefits of Death Shroud boosts and better synergy all around. And you could use it with your base weapons. So much nicer IMO.

They might be changing anways. They are changing tomes to a shout/signet. Lich will likely be remade into a strong spectral skill and plague into a corruption.

As a Necro, I actually do think the idea of a 1 spam hero is zzzz. If they become strong buffs and don’t block our baseline abilities, and enhance them instead, it could be much better for everyone involved.

Ashur.6403:

It is rather upsetting when you compare dhuumfire to other gm traits. It is even more upsetting when you compare dhuumfire to the engineer gm burning trait (which still has it on crit AND a burning duration increase).

Oh hell. I forgot about that…. :/

You mean to say Dhuumfire doesn’t look like its on par with the new Monk’s Focus? :P Or Warrior Shouts traits.

Phys, you sort of missed (IMO) the best alternative…

sen·ti·nel
?sent(?)n?l/
noun
1.
a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.
verb
1.
station a soldier or guard by (a place) to keep watch.

Their traps are not launched like Rangers, so less aggressive and more preemptive and “defensive” in nature. Sentinel also lends well to being a Guardian while also lending to range fighting. It has a perfect fit in just about every way, and while it isn’t as fancy as chronomancer, I feel it is in general more appealing than Dragon Hunter.

That’s cruddy… If they do this I hope they make it on any hit and maybe just increase the ICD to like 8 seconds or so. Or you know… Not ruin it at all.

TyPin.9860:

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

Interesting, how did you measure this? I’d like to see that statistic.

It is mind blowing to me, how many of you don’t understand the thinking behind the name and the theme. To me it was unexpected, but it was an understandable choice.

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

This is from the GW2 website describing the guardian. How is dedicating oneself to fight the greatest danger in the history of the world not a worthy cause for a profession that lives to protect? You all seem to compare it with mercenary style demon hunter themes. However, the idea behind Dragonhunter is very obvious. You seem to be more entangled in your expectations of a profession theme than with the actual profession theme itself. The reason for disappointment seems to lay within yourself instead with the actual profession.

And about the reasoning of ‘us all being dragon hunters’, regardless of profession… We are also all warriors, should we now change that class name too, because it doesn’t really describe the uniqueness of warrior?

To me, just simply adding to the word ‘Dragonhunter’ the word ‘order’ (instead of faction, as Jon did it), makes it suddenly sound way different, than what you make it to be. And being part of a dedicated order of Dragonhunters sounds in my ears like a very worthy cause for a guardian.

http://strawpoll.me/4303143/r

This is the poll on it. Has a pretty significant amount of voters (Over 3000, and was shared on several social media sites), and yes, over 50% is negative, with a portion neutral and the “highly positive” is very very low.

Kreed.2768:

People are getting way too hung up on this whole name business… Isn’t what it does a lot more important than what it’s called? To be honest, they could’ve called it the Whippersnapper and I still would’ve liked it, simply because they value (for me, at least) lies in the mechanics ten million times more than the name. Didn’t see people complain as much it became known that Ranger’s would be Druid, which I think sounds way more generic and boring than Dragon Hunter. xD

Feel of something matters a hell of a lot. its the same way visuals, cosmetics, names, general concepts ALL matter. It’s a lot of what makes people drawn to something. And frankly, the play draws me in but the name leaves a bitter taste.

FrownyClown.8402:

reduce cd to 120 seconds.
increase the radius.
stops projectiles (they cant hurt you or your allies you are in front of).
increase duration to 20s.

that would make it really good for large scale stuff.

It might not even end up as a transform if things turn out the same as they did for Guardian. For better or for worse.

Yeah… I mean I can see your “point” but I still tend to disagree. I would have much preferred something along the first two because in this specific case the “high concept” just sounds uninspired. And I have a feeling it will feel more like that as people are focusing on various parts of the story or goals in general. I guess while I dislike the sound of the name, it also doesn’t feel like it describes the specialization in a well-rounded manner either.

Silhouette.5631:

Great idea. Don’t call it “Feel my Wrath” though. The boons aimed at allies and that shout is at the enemy. Id also complain about Signet of Courage having nothing to do with virtue of courage but meh it doesn’t matter

P.S. why not have a tome come back as a cantrip. That way we can hang out with the tornado eles and complain about how nobody takes us seriously.

I guess that is sort of a good point. Maybe something like “Feel our wrath” or “Show them our Wrath!”

Sort of weird but either way, it is a bit weird to be seemingly yelling at your buddies.

Malchior.1928:

Neither lich nor plague form allow spectral skills nor minions.

I for one await changes to them. TOO MUCH INTERNAL ASYNERGY with other aspects of the class.

See, I agree. Lich is basically used for its 1 spam, so much like ToC, it is rarely fully utilized and has terrible synergy with the class.

Plague is decent, but I could see it being made a targeted corruption and pulse it’s standard debuffs, or SOMETHING, who knows. Might even be cool if Plague was a ground target and each time it hit an enemy it would grow in size and extend the duration (to a certain extent) which would be AWESOME in wvw, or areas where you can use like Dagger 3 and plague them. They have some great room to make some interesting spells if you ask me, while fixing some internal synergy.

Also, I wouldn’t be remotely sad to see Lich form go… it’s the silliest 1 spamming power up in the game. I don’t find it interesting, its just fun for the nukes. But if they rebalanced without Lich’s massive spams, maybe they could put some of that direct damage in our other spells instead.

Strictly by fun and unique… I like Mesmer’s. Engineer is sort of fun with it’s changing F1s. And Dragonhunter (specifically DH, not Guardian)

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Given the nerf to the AOE size on the heal & the fact it appears to be doing less healing I would hope they at least lower the CD.

60 seconds seems a bit long.

Other then that the fact you could trait to have it immobilize seemed nice.

Yea, the CD needs to at least match Merciful Intervention, although I still feel 50s is a bit long for a leap.

Even died to a 2-2.5k crit landing+heal+3 sec immob+mobility in general??? I think that sounds quite reasonable…

Uh… Is this based on ideals or implementation? Because Necro is definitely not designed well currently…… The main mechanics completely negates an entire trait tree’s use for its duration… o.o Thats like the #1 worst class design flaw in the game.

Seems like they may hit each transform when the given dass’s elite is introduced and explained.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Quite frankly, if this change goes through for Tome of Courage, I’m not playing this game anymore. Tome of Courage was fine the way it was and offered a very powerful backline support spell that rewarded good foresight and skill.

Blackmail, classy. Peace.

He said they will likely come back in the future. If I had to guess, as kits or Conjures.

Foefaller.1082:

Also:

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Would that be as tomes, or something under conjurations/kits?

Or is it way too far off to ask?

I suspect kit Tomes. I would not be sad to see that…..

There has to be SOME freaking trade off… If they all were straight boosts and who whammies, chances are it would make the elite almost too necessary… Unlike Chronomancer where the minor adds a shatter, Guardians gains 3 very distinctive ability uses, and they retain their old effects in some way.

If you prefer the old, just don’t play a DH.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Also, the biggest drawback behind those changes, is that all other players’ professions will envy them. coughelementalistscough

I speculate more will be discussed as more elites are talked about.

Get it? Too kitten → as a Charr.
Definitely.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Tome-Change-ideas/first

Something to consider.

I still think it will happen, but we will see…

Tom.8029:

ronpierce.2760:

It will be Dragon Yeller.

I could imagine a parody of a Necromancer cursing a Dragon/Dinosaur out. And thus, the Dragon Yeller was born.

Everyone knows Necromancers can’t PVE. Fuel for shouting at the screen.

Dragon Yeller confirmed.

It will be Dragon Yeller.

Aowys.9420:

People that post things they dont like .!

Don’t be so kitten yourself, man!

This could both explain their lack of fixing Moa and would fix people’s fear of Rampage and the new physical trait for 150% damage AND allow for a tornado fix…. I think all of these transforms are going away… O.O

Will this extend to Necros and Warriors by chance?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Unlikely. Tomes don’t currently see much use. Lich and Plague both do.

There were uses in SH. I’m thinking this actually is tied to the utility type changes. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t real happy with how Lich works which was mostly used for 1 spam. Just a curious thought.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Tome-Change-ideas/first

They are reworking tomes. I’m wondering if this will extend to us. O.o

Op, still hate the name lol.

6*.

I still think it’s Ritualist. The sudden ranger spirit rework is highly suspicious, and would also aid well to our need for support. There is also lore behind Majory who Uses a spirit great sword that contains her sisters spirit.

The merge shuffled my Poll into this mess.

Removing Ferocity entirely and having better interaction between critical hit chance and conditions would vastly improve the game, especially in terms of diversity. Like I said before, 3 compounding dps stats together does nothing but force stacking them because it’s too much of a dps loss when you’re missing one of the 3 because of the way they stack in effectiveness when used together. Ferocity was a terrible idea.

I edited the OP to better reflect how right click turning should be adjusted while still, clearing up some confusion that was expressed to me.

I’m not suggesting it only moves your body facing, but just like moving, it turns your body and camera, not just your camera while still (as it happens currently), for all of the reasons above.

Would love some more feedback here in the thread, please!

Baconplease.1657:

ronpierce.2760:

1. Lack of arenas.
2. The AI hate stigma.
3. Poor AI design (Uselessness in team fights, too passive, not active enough, bad AI)
4. Terrible design of Necromancer.
5. Power creep.
6. How stats are handled. (IMO, in a perfect world all amulets would be 2 offensive stats and 1 defensive or 2 defensive and 1 offensive) Might stacking celestial, pure glass and pure bunk are all pretty meh to me. A nice middle ground would be peach.
7. Moa… I have my reasons…
8. Lack of arenas.

People hate AI because it takes no skill to play. low risk High reward.

Not all of them, that’s just a stereotype. Most people who complain about them have absolutely zero perspective and don’t even understand the problems associated with their enemy. The only exception might have been old Turrets which were just too easy to play.

That said, I covered that. I wouldn’t mind them moving more of the passive benefits to something more active. I’ve wanted that for a long time. (FYI, I play MM, not turrets)

I just don’t like the name because it’s corny, like being named XxLegolasxX. Gives me the unimaginative cringe. (so does warrior but at least that’s a standard and basic name. This just seems forced on top of cliche)

Beyond that, though, I think it’s great. Guardians needed range, LB makes the most sense, and even the new virtues could prove beneficial for melee guardians with the added mobility, and the team support blocks are top notch too.