Guild Wars 2

Nerf: PvP Forums

Goal: Prevent under-educated forum goers from calling nerfs they don’t fully understand and overheard when listening to higher tier players, or are asking to nerf low-tier-only monsters.

Risk: Balance changes might make sense instead of destroying everything because people make snap decisions on things they hate and refuse to learn and/or work around them.

- I’m only partially kidding. I wish I was fully kidding but I’ve seen enough bad decisions based on hysteria.-

People who are 80 still have alts, thats the beauty of Account bound items, and it would be strange to reward off-items for people checking a check-box to opt out. A reward track is standardized and there’s nothing wrong with that.

However, sure, if they wanted to add a “Leveling up” track or allowed them to be sold for 10s, I’d be fine with that. But there’s issues with removing them all together, especially just because you’re on a level 80 character, there’s simply no need for that.

People are forgetting that these are the first set of elites, and the idea is very specifically that they specialize your class ‘further’ (seemingly support in the case of Chronomancer), and with their additions are considered entirely new classes.

Future elite specializations are mutually exclusive, so while the first elite may seem powerful to the base, I -believe- the long term goal is to make each specialization unique and powerful in the way that they specialize where as if you go full-base you will be more “well rounded” around the core base-class. which always feels underwhelming compared to any deep specialization.

Expect in the future most builds will be 2 base spec + 1 elite. In the mean time, there will still likely be scenarios where the 1 added ability and new traits are not as useful as just going full-base specializations if the elite doesn’t lend a hand well to what their goals are for their build.

leman.7682:

EremiteAngel.9765:

hahahahahahahahha

Zietlogik.6208:

Please….

I have no use for tomes of knowledge even right now, and they will have even less of a use post Hero Point Update.

Will there be a way to disable these as rewards? or make them so level 80 characters do not get these as rewards? or something….

I was sitting on 3 stacks of Tomes, all characters at 80, and 1 of each character. So I literally would not be able to use them post-update, hopefully this is being thought of?

Or maybe even “Trade in 80 Tomes of Knowledge for 1 Free Character Slot!”

Tomes? Because you don’t need to level anymore, remove them??? Thats a really selfish suggestion. Easy fix: Make them vendor for 10 silver, so when you get them you make some return for them.

I went ahead and created a quick video showing the odd difference between turn-shooting with a target and without that causes a disruption in how you play.

Heads up: I am moving this to the General from PVP section, as I figure it involves all parts of the game. If one is to be deleted, delete it from PVP. Thanks.

Greetings everyone, I just wanted to toss out a few suggestions for improving gameplay and controls. (TL;DR the suggestions are: adding an option where holding the right mouse button and turning with the mouse causes your entire body to turn even when not moving, having a single facing-check for casts, and max distance ground casting.)

Turning Controls
Currently: When you hold right click and turn:
When Moving – Changes your body direction with camera.
When Casting – Changes your body direction with camera.
When Not Casting – Only changes camera direction, requiring steps to adjust the body.

Suggested: When holding right click and turn with mouse:
When Moving – Turns camera and body.
When Casting – Turns camera and body.
When Not Casting – Turn your body with your camera, much like it does while casting without requiring movement or a spell.

What this does: In terms of improving game-play, these key points would be improved:
- Less accidental spell wasting when immobilized. (Spells that are too fast will fail sometimes even without holding down the right click, others however can still cause a failed cast when holding the right click.
- General game-play improvements when immobilized. (Important for active defending against flanking targets!) This is important because its clear turning is legal for immobilize, so being able to defend yourself appropriately is important.
- Others, will fill in as I remember or others bring them up.

Single Facing-Check Casting
Check at the cast finish: Coupled with this, and this is a slightly more technical issue, but spells starting to cast from behind should only have one facing check at the end of the cast. Much like beginning a cast out of line of sight, a cast should be able to be started regardless of current facing, and only fail if the cast-finish check registers as not-facing.

Max-Distance Fast-casting
Instantly cast furthest liniar distance: This isn’t a new suggestion, actually, but would be a nice one to have. Often spells lose distance trying to find a maximum range for a spell, and several have suggested to allow spells to cast at their maximum range between the character and their pointer. This is simply for fluidity of casting. As this might require a bit more discipline to use correctly and is a more advanced option, I definitely suggest this to be an option and not at all baseline.

Make Each An Option: Some people may enjoy how things are currently. I do however, feel like these would improve the overall game-play and handling, and cause far fewer frustrations and would be incredible control option additions.

This will make the game’s general play feel better control-wise and functionally. Thanks for listening and please feel free to weigh in.

… Some people missed the point of this entirely.

choovanski.5462:

compare the 16sec traited gear shield to what the warrior’s traited block will become: 3sec block 20sec cooldown, reflects missiles, might on block.

I know which one I would take.

Might be worth annotating the loss of Dogged March.

Aktium.9506:

robertul.3679:

Almost as strong as 2.5s evade on 10s cd!

Blurred Frenzy roots the user though, a badly used Blurred Frenzy will mean you’ve rooted yourself in place possibly setting yourself up to get wreckt by the enemy as soon as the evade is over. If Mesmer could run around while using it it would definitely be far too strong. I mean, I would be completely ok with Gear Shield rooting the Engineer on use if you think that’s better than a longer cooldown or reduction in effectivity. You also can’t always access Blurred Frenzy when you want since it can be temporarily inaccessible after a weapon swap, Gear Shield will never be inaccessible.

I think that’s a key part of what adds to the power of the already incredibly powerful block that is often overlooked.

NeXeD.3042:

ronpierce.2760:

Hack, bug thats been going on for like a month, same difference.

It’s a bug not a hack and it’s not the same…. most of the time the invisible person doesn’t even know they are invisible.

I forgot to add /s. That was the joke.

Slick shoes should be so slick they also knock the engineer on their bums. That has my vote.

Hack, bug thats been going on for like a month, same difference.

none.9681:

If Necromancers get shouts (still don’t think they will), there better be “For Grave Justice!”

These aren’t shouts. Maybe I was onto something with Joker, these are puns.

Pun. “For Grave Justice!”

Pun. “On my…. ‘Mark’!”

And they could even have traits that cause Pun skills to cause aoe facepalm stuns.

Erm. Nah I think 2xI duelists and a zerker instantly unloading at once after already having unloaded in addition to a shatter (like the daze shatter) lining up like 14k bursts on top of a shatter and previous phantasm attacks is just too much. If you’re honest with yourself this isn’t even a question….

Bio Flame.4276:

I still think the nerf was not enough. It is a core PvP issue: good PvP is about player interaction, not player vs AI. That’s PvE.

I still see LOTS of Engi Cancer builds (Engi turrets), just fought a premade with 3!! Cancer builds.

Design-wise, I strongly believe that Turrets should be completely pushed out of the meta. Turrets gameplay lacks skill, it’s not fun to play against and it’s everything that PvP should not be.

Its a design issue entirely. “NPCs” can be very strategical as long as enough play revolves around interaction with them. Some MMOs, their hardest to play characters are pet classes, and theres much to be said about overcoming bad AI as well. Its entirely a perception issue as to how “bad” AI is for pvp.

That said, ANet has designed every pet it has to be relatively non-interactive and basically damage sticks. Thats not an AI issue, thats a lack of creativity. :/

I made a concept for necromancer just the other day in the pvp section:

Necromancer Elite: Joker
Jokers gain access to the Great sword. The Joker’s unique class mechanic is that it has a split auto attack functionality. You must press 1, then 2, then 3 for its auto attack. For example:
1. Slash. 2. Another Slash. 3.) Slash more, gain 2% life force.
In addition to the Great sword, necromancer also unlocks brand new shout abilities, with classics such as:
“Wait up!” which gives all enemies within 600 range a 5 second cripple!
“I’m Going into Death Shroud, Don’t heal yet!” which tells allies that you’re about to enter death shroud, so supporting you will be useless. This will play a major role in team fights.
And their elite shout:
“I GIVE!”, likely one of the most interesting abilties we’ve added to the game. This ability causes you to instantly enter downed stat triggering all “on downed” traits such as death nova and gives you access to your downed state “1” combo for additional damage. Think high risk, high reward!
I’m stoked.

Jekkt.6045:

would be too close to soothing ice though and even if every aura lasted only 1s it would keep triggering elemental shielding giving you perm protection which would result in a nerf anyway.

I’d assume there would be ICDs involved. I’d suggest like 12-15 per attunement and 2-3 second durations, which seems like it’d work out better than no ICD. No ICD obviously wouldn’t work out at all. Not sure protection uptime matters. EA is like 60-65% uptime anyways? Like one Aura protection would keep it up perma anyways except for when ripped.

I’m not sure 00666 will be all that prevalent though when Tempest comes out. From the looks of it the additions to the core mechanics might be really hard to ignore. And if Sword has any leaps/blasts Sw/F auramancer might be pretty good. Which, I hope sword has some sort of aura baseline and a leap or so to take advantage of fields.

Jekkt.6045:

maybe, but the way the trait is now perfectly fits the playstyle of d/d, you will get hit and you expect to get hit – unlike on glassy builds – and by getting hit you gain something.

If they changed that to auras, that wouldn’t change much. In fact, with EA you’d have your boons (if they kept it master) and would get frost aura in water when you’re healing, slowing them down and reducing damage taken by 10%, dealing more damage and gaining might when on an assault, it has perfect synergy with the playstyle without stepping on other trait’s toes imo.

I think this is far more interesting than a weird clone of EA...

Yeah, I mean, look back in their glory days when Minion Masters—- oh, never mind. I got excited…

akaCryptic.2389:

F you man. F you. -_-

You’re ready getting some practice in, I see. Way to be ahead of the curve!

If you’re not in like… Skyhammer, it’s a net buff against organized teams. Old was gone in 1rip, this at least comes back so you can prevent more CCs against teams with boon rips. And you don’t give thieves as much love.

Maybe this isn’t an alt problem at all, and a problem with the wrong puppet master. I’d play with you. :<

Jaxom.7310:

lets not talk about weak shields… have u see the guards? and its their logo…

Their shield skills may blow, but arguably; they have one of the best shields with focus and they aren’t really lacking in the block department.

Frightlight.3796:

That sounds great that way gear shield will be in line with my defender runes meaning every time my block is up i get a 5k heal or more without having to wait an extra 7-10 sec to proc it !!

Sounds good. Better synergy, less blocking. Seems like a win win for everyone. :P

Kelthien.8593:

It’s pretty important to me. As someone who plays mostly WvW and is looking for something ‘fresh’, Chronomancer is much more appealing to me than any “new set of traits” elementalist build I can come up with.

Of course, we’ll have to see how the numbers change before release and I’m not committing… but a well-made Tempest would at least keep Ele in the running.

What would I like to see? Probably not what the rest of eles want…
- Sturdy, front-line option to make eles able to stand next to warriors/guards in the front line assaults
- Or more damage-oriented mid/long ranged options as an alternative to Staff.

As Ele are getting Sword (melee ranged), it might not be unheard of for S/F Tempest being a melee brute if you also invest in Arcana, just something to think about/look forward to.

Kain Francois.4328:

Currently in PvE, critical hits define power builds. Consequently, Bone Minions are completely useless.

Bone Minions deal low damage, and they are incredibly fragile. By design, the supposed payoff to using Bone Minions is that if they can reach a foe in the first place, you are rewarded by blowing them up for massive damage.

Currently, this is NOT the case In PvE. Their inability to deal critical damage essentially makes them broken in the PvE game mode.

Here’s my proposal: Have the crit % scale off the Necromancer’s critical chance.

If they made them .5 second casts (Like turrets) and the EXPLOSION (I don’t really suggest all minion bases) scaled with stats, that’d probably fix their viability in pve a bit and maybe PVE as a side-utility in some cases.

But they also need to fix the kitten 3 second delay before the blast finisher works…

Well. I was going to say;

When I open up the scoreboard and realize I’m on my team.

But someone beat me to the punchline. Enjoy my version. d(‘-’d)

I still think it needs to be master tier (both in terms of place and power). I just don’t see Aura share requiring 2 GMs being as popular or even as effective as Aura Share (dagger/focus) + Elemental Attunements because of the aoe near 100% uptime protection/swift/might/regen. Just a fair warning. Auras are limited in use because of stacking issues and ICDs involved with them. EA+AS together however does promote a decent supporting role that requires a lot of investment still.

That said, both As and EA need 480 ranges, they need to be both consistent and slightly larger radius from the 240 and 360 now.

I’d rather find a way to keep it Master, like 2-3 seconds but a 15 sec icd (per) so it only happens once every second time you go into a form.

Only issue is, this directly competes with the fire adept minor which has a chance to add a fire aura when going into fire.

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

you shouldn’t assume that such a skill you saw previewed to you from the most work in progress profession they showed off will actually be a 30 sec cd aoe moa morph. what you should do is assume it IS work in progress and all subject to change especially the numbers and that the patch will also address the issue of necros losing their minions from being transformed. if(and when) they add new morphs to the game that continue to break necro minions then it would be appropriate to necro this thread

It’s appropriate with one… Adding more is just another slap to the face. That is happens at all is absurd.

This would be freaking amaaaaaaaazing… Short though, like 3 second auras, and an ICD that allows it to stay Master tier, that’d be fantastic.

PlatinumMember.5274:

ronpierce.2760:

If you ask me, there doesn’t feel like a lot of room for changing Attunements, so it seems like Elementalists MIGHT get either an on-swap benefit baseline with it, or a Tempest Attunement (Storm Attunement?). Either way, I’m not sure people will feel like they have much choice, as has been the general feeling with Chronomancer and the Split/Shift.

People usually say crap like that when things are first revealed. They get excited about it and then a lot of them make a declaration on how X will make Y become stupid.

Just remember when the revenant was first revealed.

The difference is, you’re gaining free things, which can mean a lot, and you still have traits to go with it, so of the traits work out (which I’m sure they will for elite specs) that hype could very well be real. Especially since I think their long-term goal is to add more elites and the standard will very likely be 2 base 1 elite specializations. While there is only 1 atm and seems like just another specialization to chose, I don’t think that’s what their longer plans are. I think they are meant to be high-impact.

Especially IF (big if) a 5th attubenent spawns, it’d be really hard to pass up 4-5 additional abilities… And if it’s a base attunement bonus, same thing. These added bonuses PLUS traits and added alternatives may very well make it impossible to want to chose something else.

It’s not unheard of to have trait lines so powerful that they’re basically mandatory in all builds with rare exceptions. :P
(Ele, Warrior, Necro, thief, Mesmer all have one at least)

If you ask me, there doesn’t feel like a lot of room for changing Attunements, so it seems like Elementalists MIGHT get either an on-swap benefit baseline with it, or a Tempest Attunement (Storm Attunement?). Either way, I’m not sure people will feel like they have much choice, as has been the general feeling with Chronomancer and the Split/Shift.

Tabbing will always cycle Players first, then pets. If you mess up and tab past players, (firstly, its not the systems fault), just untarget completely and re-tab.

Menaka.5092:

ronpierce.2760:

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

• quickness already affects stomps since the start of the game: if someone invests in traits giving them quickness on some specific cases (interrupts, enemy going below a certain % of health) or if they skillfully apply quickness for stomping, why punish them?
• necros can 1v3 from downstate
• thieves can teleport wherever they want while we get a random, short range, useless teleport
• warriors can interrupt one target vs guardians can interrupt AoE / warriors can go into vengeance vs guardians drop a symbol that sloooowly heals

what “downstate balance” you are referring to?

If a Necro 1v3d anyone from down-state all 3 of them need to practice… Their Only CC is a direct fear, two stomps should have gone off.
I’m referring to 2 classes having single target ccs. Several having AOE, and others that have complete stomp resistors.

And we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about the stomp thing. Stomping should be a streamlined process, thats just my general feeling, invuln stomping being the worst aspect, but quickness too. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m pretty firm on that belief and it tends to be a split issue, not a big deal, but respect that I have a different opinion.

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

Please don’t do this <\3
Staff is not a condition weapon, it’s a universal utility weapon. Curses are basically strictly for conditions now, I’d be very sad if this happened.

I rather take Speed of shadows over Soul Mark. Soul Marks should just be baseline and staff mastery should take its place.

Staff 20% CD should just merge with Greater marks in Death Magic and the Life force should become baseline, that would be GREAT (as a personal preference to have the staff trait in death where it has always been). But cmon… Either way~ not likely to happen because #Necromancer.

I rather have it on Soul reaping because it is the jack of all trades traitline.

Or that, but I still think overall I prefer it where it has always been. I’d say DM > SR > Curses. I don’t really feel like SR or Curses (for what they’re used for) needs more “pull”. Death magic definitely needs more that is attractive.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

ronpierce.2760:

And, depending on duration of shift, you might be able to double or even triple up on full resets.

If that’s the case, then Mesmers will be extremely powerful in group combat. But I’m sure the QA team will find all bugs and exploits before HoT is released. I hope this thread helps to point out which mechanics are overpowered, and tone them down for launch.

All that needs to happen (at least a start) is not have it reset with Signet of illusion. I feel like allowing it to is a dangerous step for balance. Have Signet of Illusion state “Reset all base shatters.”, then it won’t be a big deal I wouldn’t imagine.

Palindrome.8904:

ronpierce.2760:

Palindrome.8904:

ronpierce.2760:

Trise.2865:

Ooh… a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey shiny!

My dear teammates and Mesmer friends… Welcome to URF. (Ultra-Rapid Fire)

Thypari.9043:

“This skill essentially gives the chronomancer a reset button and allows for tricks such as casting any skill twice, avoiding a killing blow, or simply tactically repositioning yourself.”

Together with Signets of Illusions and Mirror Images or dodge roll creates clones. It can be used infinitely."

• Dodge Roll (can be replaced with decoy) + Mirror Images > 3 clones
• Signet Of Illusions
• F5 Shatter
• Repeat and put spells in between you want to use infinitely

Well, no. See, you would have to use the Signet after using the shatter, but before it ends and goes on CD. Using the signet while active wouldn’t recharge the shatter because it will still be the secondary skill, and using it afterwards won’t refresh the signet.

You can however triple Moa/time warp/ new elite.

Pretty sure it works out to a double use case.

Split > use skill > shift > signet > split > use skill > shift >signet is on CD and so is split.

Aside:
I don’t use my mesmer often, but wouldn’t this potentially allow you to machine gun off a LOT of mantras with the right GM trait slotted? Assuming this doesn’t rely too heavily on DE.

The elite is 3.

Split -> Elite (cd) -> shift (no cd) -> signent -> Split -> elite -> shift (no CD) -> Elite (no backup, takes full CD.

Still 3 uses.

Huh.. doesn’t that apply to every utility then? Except the signet, that is. Further strengthens a mantra machine gun too, assuming the skill goes back to a charged state when shift happens.

Yeah, it works with anything, I just used elites as examples because they are likely to be the most powerful abuses (3 time warps in PVE/wvw? Lol….) but yeah, I’m sure there are other ways this can be incredibly potent.

And, depending on duration of shift, you might be able to double or even triple up on full resets.

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

Palindrome.8904:

ronpierce.2760:

Trise.2865:

Ooh… a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey shiny!

My dear teammates and Mesmer friends… Welcome to URF. (Ultra-Rapid Fire)

Thypari.9043:

“This skill essentially gives the chronomancer a reset button and allows for tricks such as casting any skill twice, avoiding a killing blow, or simply tactically repositioning yourself.”

Together with Signets of Illusions and Mirror Images or dodge roll creates clones. It can be used infinitely."

• Dodge Roll (can be replaced with decoy) + Mirror Images > 3 clones
• Signet Of Illusions
• F5 Shatter
• Repeat and put spells in between you want to use infinitely

Well, no. See, you would have to use the Signet after using the shatter, but before it ends and goes on CD. Using the signet while active wouldn’t recharge the shatter because it will still be the secondary skill, and using it afterwards won’t refresh the signet.

You can however triple Moa/time warp/ new elite.

Pretty sure it works out to a double use case.

Split > use skill > shift > signet > split > use skill > shift >signet is on CD and so is split.

Aside:
I don’t use my mesmer often, but wouldn’t this potentially allow you to machine gun off a LOT of mantras with the right GM trait slotted? Assuming this doesn’t rely too heavily on DE.

The elite is 3.

Split → Elite (cd) → shift (no cd) → signent → Split → elite → shift (no CD) → Elite (no backup, takes full CD.

Still 3 uses.

Trise.2865:

Ooh… a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey shiny!

My dear teammates and Mesmer friends… Welcome to URF. (Ultra-Rapid Fire)

Thypari.9043:

“This skill essentially gives the chronomancer a reset button and allows for tricks such as casting any skill twice, avoiding a killing blow, or simply tactically repositioning yourself.”

Together with Signets of Illusions and Mirror Images or dodge roll creates clones. It can be used infinitely."

• Dodge Roll (can be replaced with decoy) + Mirror Images > 3 clones
• Signet Of Illusions
• F5 Shatter
• Repeat and put spells in between you want to use infinitely

Well, no. See, you would have to use the Signet after using the shatter, but before it ends and goes on CD. Using the signet while active wouldn’t recharge the shatter because it will still be the secondary skill, and using it afterwards won’t refresh the signet.

You can however triple Moa/time warp/ new elite.

DeWolfe.2174:

Supreme.3164:

a viable burst

Because that’s all this game needs, more burst builds…..
smh

This has been my thought through this entire update. 50% bonus damage trait for shatters. Now you can triple shatter with f5 and SoI! Sounds like a raging time.

Ferik.3127:

On a side note, I wonder what the necromancer’s elite specialization will be. With greatsword as the new weapon the Death Knight vibe is strong

Necromancer Elite: Joker
Jokers gain access to the Great sword. The Joker’s unique class mechanic is that it has a split auto attack functionality. You must press 1, then 2, then 3 for its auto attack. For example:
1. Slash. 2. Another Slash. 3.) Slash more, gain 2% life force.

In addition to the Great sword, necromancer also unlocks brand new shout abilities, with classics such as:
“Wait up!” which gives all enemies within 600 range a 5 second cripple!
“I’m Going into Death Shroud, Don’t heal yet!” which tells allies that you’re about to enter death shroud, so supporting you will be useless. This will play a major role in team fights.

And their elite shout:
“I GIVE!”, likely one of the most interesting abilties we’ve added to the game. This ability causes you to instantly enter downed stat triggering all “on downed” traits such as death nova and gives you access to your downed state “1” combo for additional damage. Think high risk, high reward!

I’m stoked.

Belzebu.3912:

On paper all classes are OP.

Except necro :P

Engineer nor Revenant can swap weapons, and both are far more limited in abilities than Ele. Good luck!

Toxsa.2701:

I think you guys are overhyped before you get enough info.

The new F5 can be on 180 CD, and lasts for 5 seconds only. Though it can still be paired up well with long CD elite, I don’t think Anet would make it too OP.

As long as SoI works with it, its cooldown is sort of irrelevant, I guess. If it doesn’t work with it, that will change a lot of stuff.

Shaogin.2679:

mistsim.2748:

with turrets being vulnerable to crits and condi damage, simply buff their hp by like 30%. should be fine.

So nerf them so they take more damage and die faster, then in turn buff them until they can withstand said damage and survive longer again.

#Logic

Considering they went from too hard to kill to 1 shot pieces of power. Yes that’s called working #balance.

Of course, turrets really just need scrapped and reworked at this point…

Marcos.3690:

all the new specializations are going to be insanely OP.

P2W incoming

That’s the kitten iest thing to say… Hell, in most MMOs you can’t even play top level stuff without buying the expansion. At least here you can… Buy the kitten expansion and stop being cheap.