Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

Please don’t do this <\3
Staff is not a condition weapon, it’s a universal utility weapon. Curses are basically strictly for conditions now, I’d be very sad if this happened.

I rather take Speed of shadows over Soul Mark. Soul Marks should just be baseline and staff mastery should take its place.

Staff 20% CD should just merge with Greater marks in Death Magic and the Life force should become baseline, that would be GREAT (as a personal preference to have the staff trait in death where it has always been). But cmon… Either way~ not likely to happen because #Necromancer.

Malediktus.9250:

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

ronpierce.2760 WHY YOU BE NECRO’ING?

Probably because engineers are getting an aoe Moa skill with only 30s cooldown.

This. And this post shows that they know about this issue and it has been well over a year now.

Bhawb.7408:

I do feel like forcing curses into a single tree with basically no reason to spread out the traits makes little sense. Every other build has good reasons to go other places, but condi has had all but Dhuumfire shoved into Curses.

Move Parasitic Contagion to Blood Magic GM, drop Deathly Invigoration to Master, Transfusion to Adept, merge Bloodthirst into Vampiric Precision.

That’s a good idea as well. Good placements.

I agree. Personally, both EA and Aura Share should be a 600 radius. There’s no reason for does support to be so close ranged, especially now that EA is a GM and competes with Evasive Arcana. At LEAST 480, but either way, both should definitely be consistent with one another.

I’d be fine with letting them be invulnerable when shattering, but that’s just me.

T raw.4658:

BFMV.3198:

Shadow’s Rejuvenation is fine and actually, how they have done it in heart of Thorns is actually what thief needs. So stop all the whining. Look at warriors healing signet, heals every second !! ALL the time. We only get it in stealth, and even less healing. Also, it provides people who like the shadow type of thief as opposed to dodging and acro thief style a way to be successful in WvW, especially roaming. Every class is good at something and I enjoy World vs World roaming a ton.

With the removal of infusion thief’s roaming got hit hard

You lost 2 Init on stealth entrance and gained 1 init every 3 seconds in stealth without additional investment needed. Technically that has moments of benefit and moments of slight reduction. It’s not all a loss, right?

No way. Nooooo.

Would rather clones being shattered to be indestructible and make the phantasm trait that provides summoning invulnerability extend to clones.

Clone death at all, let alone baseline? Nooooo.

Couple things:
- if healing in deathshroud were to happen, it wouldn’t be in curses. It had better be in blood, but really, some sort of baseline would be great. Even if it was 50% and made 100% as part of a minor in blood that’d be fantastic. (of course, keeping healing skills locked from use in DS)
- Please don’t mess with the minion traits. The second minion trait already has damage bonus to it, and Flesh of the master is almost Mandatory for an MM build, it’s in a good spot. The best change I could consider is to:
-> Merge Death Nova and Necromantic Corruption but remove the explosion damage from death nova and make the minion damage boost baseline (but only 15-20% instead of the full 25%) so it would become
Necromantic Corruption: Minions take conditions from its master (1 per 10 seconds) and minions transfer conditions to enemies on hit.(Same) When a minion dies it creates a poison field for a short time.
( Reasons are 1.) Reduces overall passive play of MM. 2.) Retains skillful aspects of death nova such as skillful timing of putrid explosion. 3.) Makes minions more attractive for non MMs. 4.) Opens the last GM spot for a non MM grandmaster.)
- Shrouded removal absolutely cannot become a stun break. As for the condition removal, that’s possible. 2 might be okay, but also might be a bit strong with a 7 second cooldown on DS.
- Terror should probably just be merged with the fear trait in Soul Reaping as it has effectively become a hybridized trait line. However, the condition duration boost on Lingering Curses would very likely need to be toned down. This would open up a place for a power trait,
- Axe Training is terrible. The damage boost just needs to be baseline, and changed to Cooldowbs reduced by 20%, Rending Claws now cleave up to 3 targets and Unholy Feast becomes a blast finisher.

I’ll update as things come to me.

Emapudapus.1307:

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

The problem now is that ds 1 and staff 1 doesnt benefit condi necros with dmging condis. With dhuumfire change you actualy get viable ds 1 condi autoattack.

But would you pick this version of Dhuumfire over Foot in the Grave or Deathly Perception?

What about burning in a radious from a target to 5 ppl on ds 1 and single burning on staff 1 (unless it pierces) and 20% extra burning duration. Assuming the condi duration in spite isnt limited to scepter (which would be silly) i would definately consider it, at least for pve. Also if you take piercing lifeblast trait than each target could triger the aoe burn making some interesting situations.

That sounds too fun and like to reasonable of an area denial to ever be considered. Let’s not teasing ourselves.

If we’re joking around here, I have a little joke in progress.

Want to know how I know that Necromancer will be the first revealed?

Because they are trying to make the other elite specializations interesting!

Something like that, I need to work on the wirding a bit.

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Seriously though, accelerant packed turrets made baseline is a complete joke.

Detonate only, won’t detonate on death. Noob!

Supply crate will be able to be detonated, and the heal got its knockback baseline, when it didn’t need buffed. C’mon now, Mr. Five Gauge. You know as well as I do that this is a buff because you will be able to fully control it, MORE than you could before. Oh and you get an f5 now lol.

Who’s gonna take Supply crate

Okay so your heal. Let’s not pull hairs. Also, you really never know. Depends on how practical the alternatives end up. Granted Mortar might be great, wouldn’t doubt it.

Sagat.3285:

ronpierce.2760:

If they had to reduce the numerical amount of LF we have in exchange for healing in DS so our traits and ally supports actually WORKED, so be it… I’d take that in a second, in fact, it might be pretty good for the game.

Additonally, Necros out of combat REALLY need to generate up to 15% LF out of combat and not degenerate outside of combat. Starting without, and if your primary initial builder misses it swings a fight a very unrealistic amount.

I want them to remove the second HP mechanic completely , siphons fit the attrition theme , someone mentioned retaliation healing for it’s damage it fits, it’s not hard to add reflect and other active defenses . SA can give block for 5 sec with max 3 attacks give protection if shield is not broken, removal of ICD on SoV and more, the roots are here make it happen. The DS skills can remain as F1-5 skills that use LF as a resource. Removal/replacement of the second HP bar mechanic would be the best thing to happen to us, I hope it’s flaw make the report please don’t ignore it’s flaws.

I’ve weighed in on ideas for a HEAVY remake of DS, its just not likely. Best we can realistically do is ask for some obvious (you’d think its obvious) changes to how it works. Look at the Blood line and then look at what they’re doing for Engineer. There isn’t christmas in the underworld lol…

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Seriously though, accelerant packed turrets made baseline is a complete joke.

Detonate only, won’t detonate on death. Noob!

Supply crate will be able to be detonated, and the heal got its knockback baseline, when it didn’t need buffed. C’mon now, Mr. Five Gauge. You know as well as I do that this is a buff because you will be able to fully control it, MORE than you could before. Oh and you get an f5 now lol.

If they had to reduce the numerical amount of LF we have in exchange for healing in DS so our traits and ally supports actually WORKED, so be it… I’d take that in a second, in fact, it might be pretty good for the game.

Additonally, Necros out of combat REALLY need to generate up to 15% LF out of combat and not degenerate outside of combat. Starting without, and if your primary initial builder misses it swings a fight a very unrealistic amount.

evilapprentice.6379:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

Again I do not find it irritating at all. When a thief just stealthing I just go elsewhere. Your issue is not shadows rejuv. You are arguing against stealth itself. If they removed the skill shadows rejuv entirely they will still stealth. Those that sit in stealth now will still sit in stealth.

Only one skill SR allows a long term stealth and the only reason I ever used that skill was to cleanse conditions or to get out of a fight I was sure to lose or to run past a pack of people at a gate so as to get into a castle to defend it.

There are a whole pile of warriors that run away when they lose a fight and there no way I can catch them on a guardian. I have been with teams of 3 or 4 others tryng to catch one of these warriors and can not. That warrior heals all the while he is running.Using your reasoning we should remove all escape abilities so they have to stand and fight.

Many will (and have) argued Warrior mobility could be tuned down, redirecting the issue isn’t really fixing my issues. Problems in a game are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, there is a difference between stealth and stealthing and rejuvenating really fast. If you out-reset your enemy you can dwiddle them down in a very frustrating way.
Snip some

Thank you for posting this as now i can end this argument.

40% of 12,000 hp is 4800 hps. For a thief to fully rejuvenate to 100% health by utilizing shadow rejuvenation is like 20 seconds.

That’s 20 seconds of uninterrupted stealth….

1. HoT removes 20 secs of stealth.
2. Most classes who solo roam can fully heal in 20 secs
3. Most thieves are running more than 12k hps so it’s longer…

You don’t have a heal either, I take it? SR replaced your healing capabilities entirely and is your not source of healing or something?

But you’re talking about SR, not SR + heal skill.

You can’t complain about SR and claim that it’ll get a thief up to 100%, be proven wrong, then go “But you didn’t factor in the heal!”. It’s silly and non-sensical.

I get the feeling you just don’t like SR and you don’t really have a firm reason as to why.

The discussion was he can leave and regenerate faster than the enemy then re-engage safely effectively and safely wearing down the enemy. His point was that the enemy can use their heal twice by time SR fully heals them back to life, but he wouldn’t be relying on SR alone and would heal just as well as his enemy would. SR is a bonus. Hence me saying that they OUT-regenerate their foe and re-engage, making it a potent hit and run mechanic. Having SR doesn’t remove your heal from the bar.

Also, yes I do hate it. It’s a corny design to stealth and heal to reset fights whenever you need to. There are just as nice alternatives that could be made that would make it an active combat defense rather than a cheesy reset mechanic.

Seems like a hasty and irrational Nerf on celestial. Celestial had to be buffed (by a smaller amount than its being nerfed) just to even get use. On top of the fact that only 3 classes can even use it now and that’s because of reasons beyond the base stats but how they have weapons that can double as either weapon type, effectively making full use of all stats at once, made more powerful from might stacking. (Warrior sword and Lb, ele many attacks, Engineer grenades and tool kit)

I get people hate the celestial meta, but this nerf does nothing but further delete balanced fighters all because a few specific builds are too strong at a basic level. Elementalist is already getting nerfed, warrior could still be looked at, and engineer freaking got everything it ever wanted baseline and buffed (thanks Grouch :P). Yet celestial was the issue? People need to find causes of issues not symptoms.

Seriously though, accelerant packed turrets made baseline is a complete joke.

Softspoken.2410:

ronpierce.2760:

Question. Does Unholy Martyr have preference to player allies over minions?

I actually have no idea which one it currently prioritizes. I’d say that going forward it should favour allies, since minions tend to be more disposable, and have a plausible condition transfer mechanism in the new Necromantic Consumption.

That’s my thoughts too, I just have never got to test it. I kind of want to check this out later.

Please don’t do this <\3
Staff is not a condition weapon, it’s a universal utility weapon. Curses are basically strictly for conditions now, I’d be very sad if this happened.

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

Again I do not find it irritating at all. When a thief just stealthing I just go elsewhere. Your issue is not shadows rejuv. You are arguing against stealth itself. If they removed the skill shadows rejuv entirely they will still stealth. Those that sit in stealth now will still sit in stealth.

Only one skill SR allows a long term stealth and the only reason I ever used that skill was to cleanse conditions or to get out of a fight I was sure to lose or to run past a pack of people at a gate so as to get into a castle to defend it.

There are a whole pile of warriors that run away when they lose a fight and there no way I can catch them on a guardian. I have been with teams of 3 or 4 others tryng to catch one of these warriors and can not. That warrior heals all the while he is running.Using your reasoning we should remove all escape abilities so they have to stand and fight.

Many will (and have) argued Warrior mobility could be tuned down, redirecting the issue isn’t really fixing my issues. Problems in a game are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, there is a difference between stealth and stealthing and rejuvenating really fast. If you out-reset your enemy you can dwiddle them down in a very frustrating way.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Say thief and X fights. Thief and something else is at 40% but the thief can hide and regenerate to 100% in the time that person can just heal and end up at about 70% health and the fight starts again at 70% versus 100%, what do you think is going to happen? And the problem doesn’t end there. Stealth makes it hard to break that pattern because unless the thief is really bad, it’s hard to continue pressuring them.

(bad meaning you just SR in the middle of the fight and get cleaved because you didn’t take any additional measures).

This happens in WvW all the time, in fact it’s common for thief to kill multiple enemies at once with relative ease. The only thing preventing this from happening in spvp is stealth preventing node capping and the timer, both of which become less of an issue in SH where these types of builds will likely shine much more.

Thank you for posting this as now i can end this argument.

40% of 12,000 hp is 4800 hps. For a thief to fully rejuvenate to 100% health by utilizing shadow rejuvenation is like 20 seconds.

That’s 20 seconds of uninterrupted stealth….

1. HoT removes 20 secs of stealth.
2. Most classes who solo roam can fully heal in 20 secs
3. Most thieves are running more than 12k hps so it’s longer…

You don’t have a heal either, I take it? SR replaced your healing capabilities entirely and is your only source of healing or something?

Do the math with both players having a heal and tell me how it goes.

Question. Does Unholy Martyr have preference to player allies over minions?

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

Again I do not find it irritating at all. When a thief just stealthing I just go elsewhere. Your issue is not shadows rejuv. You are arguing against stealth itself. If they removed the skill shadows rejuv entirely they will still stealth. Those that sit in stealth now will still sit in stealth.

Only one skill SR allows a long term stealth and the only reason I ever used that skill was to cleanse conditions or to get out of a fight I was sure to lose or to run past a pack of people at a gate so as to get into a castle to defend it.

There are a whole pile of warriors that run away when they lose a fight and there no way I can catch them on a guardian. I have been with teams of 3 or 4 others tryng to catch one of these warriors and can not. That warrior heals all the while he is running.Using your reasoning we should remove all escape abilities so they have to stand and fight.

Many will (and have) argued Warrior mobility could be tuned down, redirecting the issue isn’t really fixing my issues. Problems in a game are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, there is a difference between stealth and stealthing and rejuvenating really fast. If you out-reset your enemy you can dwiddle them down in a very frustrating way.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Say thief and X fights. Thief and something else is at 40% but the thief can hide and regenerate to 100% in the time that person can just heal and end up at about 70% health and the fight starts again at 70% versus 100%, what do you think is going to happen? And the problem doesn’t end there. Stealth makes it hard to break that pattern because unless the thief is really bad, it’s hard to continue pressuring them.

(bad meaning you just SR in the middle of the fight and get cleaved because you didn’t take any additional measures).

This happens in WvW all the time, in fact it’s common for thief to kill multiple enemies at once with relative ease. The only thing preventing this from happening in spvp is stealth preventing node capping and the timer, both of which become less of an issue in SH where these types of builds will likely shine much more.

Zefrost.3425:

ronpierce.2760:

^ those would ruin MM. Would be in a much worse spot than their projections. :S

Not sure which changes specifically you are referring to, but I personally think that minions should have the passive play available like they currently do but actives kill the minions for powerful effects. (Blood fiend = heal, flesh wurm = teleport) Flesh golem being the exception to this, however.

Rigor Mortis would basically become the necromancer version of Protect Me! and Haunt would become another teleport, which gives you 3 possible teleports with haunt, flesh wurm and dark path being ground targetted.

I mean let’s face it, the current actives of bone fiend and shadow fiend are crap.

Just my opinions though, we all got em.

All of the minion traits are nerfed in your suggestion. 20% damage becoming its own trait split from the condition pull, where bother are combined together with condition hand-offs already in the Necromantic Corruption trait. Etc. they way they have them set up is mostly perfect except that I feel Death nova and Necromantic Corruption needs a clever merger to open a spot up for a non-mm trait.

Also, Shadow fiend, if destroyed would lose a lot of value. The active on it now would be PERFECT, if only it was instant so you could secure stomps with him. Rigor Mortis is a 5 second immobilize…. I couldn’t imagine giving that up…

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

I feel like they should hold off on the celestial nerf until after the trait stat changes… It might be a non-issue after all, and seems a bit hasty. Unless they tested it already post-changes.

^ those would ruin MM. Would be in a much worse spot than their projections. :S

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

I think this should be brought up in a feedback thread, as they will likely be the most read for fixes rather than a theorycrafting thread. I hope they take it seriously because for a GM now, 240 feels really unrewarding and unlike a real supportive option. Same really goes with aura sharing. I think 600 would be a great place while not making it absurd like 1200.

yolo swaggins.2570:

What does sitting in stealth matter? They are not doing anything to you.

EDIT: Besides its essentially a crappy healing signet sept with less passive.

Because it’s a “crappy healing signet” on top of a heal and condition removal and 50% damage reduction, and allows people to recover faster than an enemy and hit and run. They aren’t doing “nothing”, they are rebuilding faster than an enemy can to tear them down safely, hence why I suggest it’s just incredibly unfun to fight. Sort of how people see Turrets as unfun to fight, which seemed to have weight for thieves, but they can’t see how this could be plainly too frustrating to fight, OUTSIDE of conquest of course where it doesn’t have restrictions to its effectiveness.

Frankly, I’d prefer something that gets people playing, like if it was changed to…
Shadow Ward:
When exiting stealth gain a 4 second buff healing over time (similar to shadow rejuv now) and 4 seconds of protection.

That way, you’re encouraged to fight and have some actual defense while standing toe to toe. Numbers are adjustable, but the idea is there. Promote actual active play and combat defenses.

kuben.9826:

works under 33% when necro has same trait in grandmaster slot for 50%? I didn’t look at thief changes, but I think it stayed with 50%.
Make it 50% to compensate or back to adept, nothing more to say

Different classes and mechanics. necro burst is generally slower and can’t be compacted like an elementalists burst. I’d rather thief match ele instead. :P

Did this get sent? An answer at all?

My initial thoughts are, for Ele support to be fun ranges really need looked at.
- Aura share is 360.
- Elemental Attunement is 240.

Basically being forced to stand on top of an ally to buff them seems kind of unfun, especially since they made EA a GM, would be nice if they could buff up the area.

Preferably; both would be great at 600 radius, still limited to midrange but generally more effective. If they can’t allow that, at the very least EA should be 360 so that players can play with consistent ranges on their buffs.

Bran.7425:

ronpierce.2760:

In a world of power creep, that’s called a nerf. :P

Going with that definition which profession is getting nerfed the most?

Might be biased here, but Blood tree on Necro is pretty bad still but that’s kind of off topic at this point.

I do feel like we need more difficult choices in building though overall.

Probablem for me is, and they seem to care about this because they admitted clone death “promotes unhealthy game patterns”, I tend to feel like SR also promotes unhealthy game play. As it stands, you just go in, harass, and leave mostly uncontested and can circles around someone like a shark until you’re good and ready to strike again, and because you can heal in stealth beyond that it yes leverage to basically be able to hit and run infinitely until you win, and things go your way. The only thing that stops it from working in sPvP is that stealth doesn’t cap nodes, but come Stronghold, these types of builds (especially the new 1/0/1/0/1 build) is just far too safe and still incredibly powerful. It’s certainly not fun or engaging to play against…

Pretty sure the base 1500 and read the wind projectile speed became baseLine.

If they want to making Aura share/support a thing, especially after toning down the Arcana tree, they should really consider doing one of two things.

- Make Powerful Aura and Elemental Attunement 600 radius.

Or

- At the very least, bump EA to 360 to make powerful aura.

It’s weird being one of the squisier classes and having to essentially melds your buffs onto people, and beyond that, it’s even more weird to have an inconsistent buffing area. Does anyone else get this notion?

Bran.7425:

ronpierce.2760:

Not only this, but they sort of need to to counteract the power creep a bit.

Depending on your profession of choice some of that seems to centered around ‘that train remained the same’

In a world of power creep, that’s called a nerf. :P

Bran.7425:

They are attempting to make the grand master choice actually matter to have to make a choice (or having a choice for that matter) should be part of the build process.

Not only this, but they sort of need to to counteract the power creep a bit.

EremiteAngel.9765:

easy way is to not play minions

Yeah, good advice, friend. +1

Bran.7425:

It you manage to dodge it and the minions get hit they well probably perform better than in their natural state.

I’m aware of that. I’d prefer it not affecting minions though, and not kill them in the process. Sort of a two-sided thing. I’m pretty against player spells hurting themselves more if they’re playing decently, but I REAAAAALLLY hate hard-counters of this magnitude.

So, very old… issue. Moa and minions, minion master or not, being moa’d kills them all. It was already problematic when the random mesmer would use it and you’d be stripped of everything and put on full cooldown. A very terrible “hard-counter” and by hardcounter, I’d some of the biggest in the game. Well, engineer are ALSO going to have a shorter AOE moa now! Yay! Not a BIG deal, except, great… now a 3 year old bug can screw us over twice as often…

Please, this has been frustrating enough. This isn’t standard for pets, just necromancer. PLEASE FIX IT… It will not be okay when this happens more frequently… I’m begging you guys to just take the time to fix this…

That is all.

Bhawb.7408:

That’s something I’d like to note, I’d really like to see our traits have visible CD timers somewhere. This is actually worth knowing for active purposes, it can really help active play.

Might be MUCH more practical now that all traits will have icons! This might be something to really explore…

As a major MM enthusiast, I’ll just throw my two cents on the Death Magic/MM bloat here for my suggestion and reasoning:

Merge the two accordingly:
Necromantic Corruption
Pets take conditions from the master and transfer conditions to enemies when they hit. When minions die they dissipate into a poisonous gas.
→ No longer explodes for high damage on death, but keeps the poison field.
→ Pets take 1 condition every 10 seconds per pet.
→ On attack, minions transfer 1 condition.

Make the old bonus damage from Necromantic Corruption baseline, but 15-20% rather than 25%.

Reasoning:
→ I don’t like punishing an enemy for being effective, depending on the situation this could deal massive damage to an enemy for playing “correctly”, and it was too passive.
→ Making the damage boost baseline while reducing it a slight bit has a two fold effect. First, it reduces minion passive damage slightly. Secondly, it boosts pets for non-MM players, which may add a bit more incentive to use a pet as an off-utility, which currently is rarely a consideration.
→ This retains the more skill oriented parts of both traits.
- The field still exists, so that putrid explosion has a more practical use (self comboing AOE weakness) which allows it to be more thoughtfully timed and increases skill cap rather than detonating any time its near an enemy (good for player skill variances).
- The pull and gift of conditions remains which gives incentive to play your CCs right for maximum up-time on pets.
→ (Key) Opens a spot for a new non-minion Grand Master trait without increasing MM bloat and effectiveness (instead of moving Death nova to master, which I feel is stronger and not fun to fight against).

So that’s my personal thoughts on this whole thing.

Bhawb.7408:

On one hand I like the idea of having two separate MM builds, one that focuses on keeping minions alive and one that is more personal damage with minions for utility, which choosing between Death Nova and Necromantic Corruption supports. On the other hand DM absolutely needs another non-minion trait.

I think a decent option is to drop Death Nova to Master, merging it with Necromantic Corruption is too much, the traits are alone worth bringing.

My idea was to actually merge them and remove a bit of the less “skillful” aspects. I think having both at once would be more powerful of an alternative than my suggestion.

Its no secret, I actually HATE the idea of minion death explosions because I feel like it punishes enemies too much for playing well. However, I think the poison field itself combos well with Putrid explosion and makes timing its self-blast (for weakness) more skillful and takes some of the face roll out of MM. In addition, making the minion damage passive (but at 15-20% instead of 25%) both increases the likelihood of other people considering minions as an off-utility and slightly reduces the passive damage of minions. I think its the best active-play alternative.

And then, obviously, more than ever, having two minion GMs in a single spot is just silly… It puts a HUGE limitation on building into that tree.

My overall goal here is to: Reduce passive damage in MM overall, retain the skillful parts of both traits (CCing to allow pet uptime to share conditions and death nova posion field for smarter and more skillful considerations for putrid explosion) as well as opening up build options by making minions slightly more considerable as a side-utility and opening up a trait for a new third Grand Master.

Bhawb.7408:

On one hand I like the idea of having two separate MM builds, one that focuses on keeping minions alive and one that is more personal damage with minions for utility, which choosing between Death Nova and Necromantic Corruption supports. On the other hand DM absolutely needs another non-minion trait.

I think a decent option is to drop Death Nova to Master, merging it with Necromantic Corruption is too much, the traits are alone worth bringing.

My idea was to actually merge them and remove a bit of the less “skillful” aspects. I think having both at once would be more powerful of an alternative than my suggestion.

Its no secret, I actually HATE the idea of minion death explosions because I feel like it punishes enemies too much for playing well. However, I think the poison field itself combos well with Putrid explosion and makes timing its self-blast (for weakness) more skillful and takes some of the face roll out of MM. In addition, making the minion damage passive (but at 15-20% instead of 25%) both increases the likelihood of other people considering minions as an off-utility and slightly reduces the passive damage of minions. I think its the best active-play alternative.

And then, obviously, more than ever, having two minion GMs in a single spot is just silly… It puts a HUGE limitation on building into that tree.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

dadada.1306:

Please don’t. Next to turret engie, this is the last build that needs a buff. If you’re not ripping up the competition with shatter mes, you’re doing it wrong.

If it’s so overpowered, then why doesn’t every top team run a mesmer? On the other hand, pretty much every top team runs with a thief and ele.

Because every team is running a thief. Thief counter Mesmer pretty good in the zerker wars which keeps it from being played as frequency. It’s damage however does not need buffed (and unfortunately is anyways with the trait changes). Like power necro, damage has never been what’s keeping it out of the meta, it’s how easily spiked down it is.

These would be too strong baseline. There’s nothing wrong with strong incentive for a line, and they aren’t mandatory by any means (yes, I play warrior frequently enough these days). Deceptive Evasion (I don’t play Mesmer) is arguably far more mandatory for certain builds than the luxury of a fast swap.

Making everything that sounds great baseline is a slippery slope. Warrior seems like it’s in a good place after the traits.

The only thing I think should be baseline is the adren gain of Cleansing Ire because pvp adren gain in pvp without it is rough and it’s often a staple to rage systems. The rest are just luxuries people love.

I actually think lingering curses is a PVE designed trait where enemies will frequently be immune to fear, with lingering you can opt for longer durations for stacking conditions that also hit harder. Since they’re trying to make condies work for pve, I think that’s the central idea of the trait. Terror being for pvp/wvw. That said, the 3rd one seems pretty useless unless you’re having a horrible time surviving in pve and need a crutch or something…

Zetsumei.4975:

The second the devs said necros have a second health bar everyone who actually plays necro knew they are clueless.

Yeah, you’d think with a second health bar if you received outside healing it would, you know, at least heal ‘it’… Though, healing our actual one and only health bar from ally support and not having our main mechanic screw us over would be… A plus, I guess…

Urug.2543:

Dadnir.5038:

Even if I dislike the change, I still have to say that you are wrong here and there.

Everyone wanted some more defensive traits but no one provide us one. Only the same of the past 2 years.

Putrid defense : Take 10% less damage from poisoned foe. I like it.
Beyond the veil : gain protection when leaving DS. not bad at all.

Only the Dhuumfire will be good, that will grant a little of condition damage to condi build.

I feel Dhuumfire may be revived by a new way to handle burn. If I recall right, I’ve seen stacking to burn in the guardian tree (This this something that may grant more deppth to this trait).

Death Magic is almost there- if they rework Unholy Sanctuary to be worthwhile, I think that DM will be pretty solid. Blood is a bad joke. Necros still have 3.5 trait lines, meaning we’re still pigeonholed into a handful of offensive builds.

I still think they need to add another non-minion trait in the GM area. I offered the following suggestion for the rework/merger of the two GMs

“*Necromantic Corruption:*
Pets pull conditions from the master (1 per 10 seconds per pet) and transfer conditions to enemies when they strike. On death, they become a poison cloud. (Remove the damage portion of the explosion.)

Make the 25% damage to minions baseline, but instead, make it about 20% instead of 25%.

Then have a 3rd NON-minion trait for other necromancers to chose from. Also, with this change, it may make Flesh Golem as a lone-pet maybe a little more attractive if they still can’t be happy with either of the other 2 GMs.!"

The reason I suggest this is; Death nova plays an important part in the skill factor of MM but mostly only in the form of using Putrid Explosion for poison and weakness. Purposefully letting pets die or being rewarded for the enemy killing them felt strange to me. Additionally, this helps a little bit with the condition issues pets already had, give or take the “pulling conditions” part which could be viewed as either positive or negative, but since they hand them off as they get them, I couldn’t imagine anyone being too upset about it. The pet damage should just be baseline to reduce the tooltip bloat. I don’t think non-MMs will be feeling real powerful with a slight minion damage buff baseline, since almost no builds run pets without being invested in them.

Either way, DM definitely needs at least 2 GMs that non-MMs can use, and this at least gives non MMs a little bit of a reason to take the merged Necromantic Corruption.
d(‘-’d)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I guess you listened to the presentation but didn’t watch it?

They showed off the new burning damage. based on the video it looks like it will take ~10 stacks of burning to equal 1 stack of current burning. It seemed to stack in a very odd manner. One stack did 320 dps… 2 stacks did 380 dps, 3 stacks did 440 dps. The damage formula must be different.

Did you check the durations? Tooltips were displaying total damage over the course of the condition.