Guild Wars 2

Silv.9207:

The only one build that will be powered up is the minionmaster. But only by a single trait.
Direct damage build will not be influenced by that trait’s so much and nothing is been to be powered up, like everyone wanted to.
Condition damage will be forced to chose between increased condition duration by scepter, fear that give damage or heal by conditions. That will be a big problem and turn down a little the condition build. And Dhuumfire will move to Soul Riping, a traitline that provide absolitly nothing to condition damage.

Everyone wanted some more defensive traits but no one provide us one. Only the same of the past 2 years.

For the www build nothing will change. For spvp there will be a large amount of MM builds because it’s the only one that will be empowered a little. Condition damage build will lose fear damage or condition duration or healing from conditions. And every single thing that will be buffed a little will be lost while you enter the DS state because not a single trait will be use in DS state. Only the Dhuumfire will be good, that will grant a little of condition damage to condi build. But for a dps class nothing will change. Not in better.

Death nova become mutually exclusive to the Training of the Master 25% minion damage. It didn’t get a direct buff.

Gw2 just isn’t ready for it. Pvp is very unclear and proccy. It might be okay for the player who is seasoned, but it’s hell on viewers who never played.

I like the new Reapers Precision idea. +1 if it works with generosity. :P

Vague Memory.2817:

I would take DE over both IP and IE. However it isn’t about swapping them, it’s about locking the majority of builds to Dueling. That isn’t diversifying builds, if one specialisation is pretty much obligatory for 99% of mesmers, because of DE.

Cleansing Ire, Terror for condi necro( also made gm), arcane attunements (also made gm), etc. there’s lot of incredibly necessary (in some cases mandatory) traits that basically lock a specialization in various aspects of the game. But at least you’re not really giving anything up too dire and still get it since everything gets to go to GM now rather than 6/4/4

They do have a nasty tendency to SHOW their lack of interest in the necromancer. This isn’t the only time, neither, they did it with the new Vampiric Signet as well. They consistently breeze right through Necro, have very little to say, joke about how no one cares about before but then express exactly that, a lack of care.

It’s really disappointing. I’ve gotten personal flak for being too critical on the forums and putting things in a negative light, but kitten, as a customer, I have a right to be annoyed. I like many of the devs, but I don’t really care to be a public puppet for them either like many ESports players are and if I feel like something needs to be said, I’ll say it.

Simply put, they need to turn to the necro forums and just take women hard notes from my peers and try it out because it’s painfully obvious that they don’t really care. To hear what they did and the excitement during engineer and thief (esports favorites) and even some of the others and a stream of “That didn’t really change”, “same as live”, and in general lack of enthusiasm on necromancer makes me shake my head.

style.6173:

You all really need to pay attention to the stream vs just posting and complaining. EVERYONE needs to pick 3 specializations and go all the way in. Gone are the days of the 1-1-2-4-6 build or whatever random thing you created.

This is what I’m thinking. People keep saying this “DE GM, omg” stuff and its like… I just don’t get it… Most builds only went to 4 anyways, so just… you know… take DE as the GM, no harm done, and take something else for free in the 4 spot from before. If anything this is a minor buff than a nerf… 6/6/0/0/6 > 4/4/0/0/6.

Zetsumei.4975:

Why are there even still traits solely dedicated to falling damage or rezzing?

WvW, some people legitimately do love them, though I find them completely silly.

They merged and hyper buffed a lot of traits for other classes or made some things base line while Necromancer barely changed at all, still sits with absolutely garbage traits even some GM ones, and an entire tree that our class mechanic fights with.

If you really want to know why Necros are upset, check out thief/engineer/ranger changes.

For example: Read the Wind, Eagle Eye, etc baseline for long bow and grenades getting Grenadeer baseline with a new ADAPT to make them faster and more reliable (in net, a HUGE buff), while we for whatever reason still have Greater Marks and Soul Marks as two separate traits left untouched. Its all just really silly to me. The power creep was immense with the way they merged and made a lot of other classes’ stuff baseline and very little of that happened on necro and we still ended up with some of the most pointless traits.

Bhawb.7408:

ronpierce.2760:

PS:
With Engis moaing now, if Moa killing pets doesn’t get fixed for Necros, I don’t even know… I will be beyond livid…

Good point. Ideally the moas will only be a visual thing, like a daze that also makes you look like a moa (since it is such a short duration having skills means nothing), instead of actually transforming you, and kill all minions or putting you out of Lich/plague.

Would be nice, not likely to happen.

Pride.1734:

Oh kitten my Necro im going full time Engi.

Pride.1734:

Necros are in a good spot man.

Just so we don’t get confused here. :P

Yeah, if we’re going by a “you told me so”, you might have told me, but you were wrong… o.O This opens up a LOT of brand NEW builds that werent evven possible before, and increases the decision making between tiers, and in the long run will be easier to balance than a mess of traits. I’m happy, except that I think thief and Engineer will rule the world in sPVP.

Warlord.9074:

OK so they saying some class will have 5 shouts and another class with have 5 traps.

Warriors will confirmed have 4 shouts with healing surge. So what warrior elite will be a shout. Taunt?

Fear me + On my Mark + Shake it off + For Great Justice + Healing Surge = 5. They said there will be no elite shout.

PS:
With Engis moaing now, if Moa killing pets doesn’t get fixed for Necros, I don’t even know… I will be beyond livid…

Personally, I felt DA seemed pretty OP as well, honestly… But I guess we’ll see…

Just so its on the actual forums, these are the notes I personally wanted to say. (Copy-pasted from what I sent to a few devs)

Death Magic:
- Two minion traits feels bad and limits the trait choice of the tree for non-minion masters (this has been said for a very long time). Especially now that a full tree is mandatory if the line is taken, there needs to be more GM options.
- This hurts the MM build that was already in need of help, the 25% damage was normally taken, but merged away from Death Nova, made mutually exclusive. I have an alternative that might fix a lot of issues.
→ Merge Death Novas death poison field into Necromantic Corruption. Remove the explosion damage and jagged horror spawned (As much as I love MM, I also feel the explosion on death if AOEd down was a bit too much unskillful burst).
→ Reduce damage buff on minions to 20%, but reduce the ICD on the transfer to 6 or 8 seconds (Minions have a VERY VERY bad issue with conditions right now that should be looked at).
→ Result: We’re not losing build power we had for no reason. It helps with the massively crippling condi issue seen with MM pets and skill factor (pet uptime so they can cleanse themselves). Passive damage is tuned down a bit but this allows necromancers to still self-blast poison fields for Weakness still with putrid blast, which is one of the only reliable ways to keep pets from being wiped out in seconds (Note: Putrid Explosion blast finisher needs fixed still, it has a long delay after skill use). And lastly, it opens up another GM for people who take the tree and don’t want to be absolutely forced into Sanctuary because the other two would have 0 use.

Blood:
- I wanted to refer to Full of Life, but I actually wanted to make a general statement about “When health drops below” thresholds as a whole. Reword them to “When taking damage below the threshold”. Less confusing. If this isn’t already the case for any skills, it should be imo to match offensive skills.

- Deathly Invigoration, revert it to after again. The skill itself isn’t all that powerful as it stands (500/10 seconds if flashed CONSTANTLY is really low anyways.) But you said it didn’t make sense to do it after, it actually makes a LOT of sense. For one, its the vampire tree, it needs to heal itself. It just has to. Secondly, DS leaves you very vulnerable, the idea and skill behind it is using DS to wait out a healing CD, use that small burst to ensure you get your heal off. It had perfect synergy with what it was needed for if used at all.
→ Alternatively, you know, add a GM that lets vampires heal in DS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 50%, something… Its soooo frustrating to have a core mechanic that fights the entirety of a specialization. How can you specialize in something you counteract? Huge flaw. Even other masters like Spectral mastery makes this GM look pretty rough.

Less MM and Vampire, more general thoughts:

Soul Reaping:
- Soul reaping currently looks great, well done on the Dhuum change. Finally a way to utilize Life blast when you’re a condition build. This was an idea I threw out a LOT, I’m glad it caught…. fire… O.O -ahem-

Spite
- Axe training doesn’t seem very fun, honestly. Axe 1 is already avoided a lot of the time, so if you were to experiment, i think a flat 20% on axe would be the best place to leave a flat one and try more experimental ones elsewhere, honestly.

Curses:
- Reaper’s Precision is still really bad… 1% on a 33% chance isn’t that great, especially on the condi line where most condi weapons are hitting every .75-1 second at best. Scepter already has some issues with LF and Reaper’s Precision just doesn’t do anyone any justice. Unless its because of PVE, which if I’m not mistaken, aren’t Necros really struggling there? (Not a big PVEr, necro shied me away from it, coupled with AI issues on minions and their weakness to AOE and no call back hehe).

- Parasitic Contagion is really a trap it seems, its weak anyways because Terror is a big ticker for damage and it would instantly lose out on that if it was taken. The healing just doesn’t seem worth it, again except in PVE where you might get to unload on a ton of mobs at once which, even then, with how fast PVE content moves, not very likely.

Some Non-Trait stuff:
-More range on Dagger 2/3 like 900 would be great, dagger could use the catch up and dagger 2 suffers because it’s mostly useless.

- Flesh Golem got skipped on the stability update. a single stack for 15 seconds? Please for the love of everything, pulse 1 stability every 3 seconds on the poor guy after charge… He has been nerfed enough…

Yeah, people worrying about it moving to GM seem to be forgetting that if you pick the specialization at all you will be going to the end, so its not like you’re losing all that much, you just take it in a different spot…

Bhawb.7408:

We weren’t nerfed with this change, with very rare exceptions (Axe Training). The only real disappointment was Blood Magic, a lot of changes were good, but the siphoning still seems really weak compared to other profession’s sustain options.

Mutual exclusiveness between Death Nova and Training of the master was pretty kittenty if you ask me. Not to mention, there are 2 Minion traits in that same tier, which really sucks for anyone who invests into that tree without the intent to use minions.

I have my own opinions on what should have happened but we can save that for a more formal discussion.

The only redeeming factor of Deathly Invigoration was that on exit it gave you a little padding of HP to heal if you were stalling for your heal… Beyond that and even now, its garbage…

Also very disappointed Training of the Master is freaking mutually exclusive to Death Nova.

I don’t think it matters though, after listening to the thief and Engi ones I’m not really sure it’s going to matter for me. :S

Shylock.4653:

Buran.3796:

Quating myself in another thread:

Nope, same thread.

Same page even, 4 posts above.

Talonblaze.3175:

ronpierce.2760:

phys.7689:

Snip

If you run in 4 trees right now you’d be, what, 4/4/4/2/0? I refuse to believe losing 2 points in some tree somehow breaks all possible functionality of a build that can’t be made up for by having 6/6/6 instead. I don’t know of any builds that specific. And while, sure you lose out on some cool builds your way, you’re also gaining the opportunity to make 3 Grandmaster trait builds which was never before possible, which opens up a lot of exciting options. Generally speaking, GMs are more game changing than adept traits you make have spread over 4-5 trait lines.

If a good chunk of GM traits weren’t garbage or broken I would agree with you, but there’s a reason people are also upset about not being able to slot Adept or Master tier traits in the new system. Because alot of GM traits aren’t appealing or good for their build whilst the rest of the tree is.

They are doing some big passes and I’m sure more will come with time as metas start to settle. Rejecting something based on expected failures doesn’t help promote positive change, we will just have to hope for the best, and if it turns out bad, at least the system is interesting and usable, they will just have to do their jobs at making corrections.

phys.7689:

Snip

If you run in 4 trees right now you’d be, what, 4/4/4/2/0? I refuse to believe losing 2 points in some tree somehow breaks all possible functionality of a build that can’t be made up for by having 6/6/6 instead. I don’t know of any builds that specific. And while, sure you lose out on some cool builds your way, you’re also gaining the opportunity to make 3 Grandmaster trait builds which was never before possible, which opens up a lot of exciting options. Generally speaking, GMs are more game changing than adept traits you may have spread over 4-5 trait lines.

phys.7689:

ronpierce.2760:

Nike.2631:

ronpierce.2760:

In addition, out of those MASSIVE amounts of “set ups” we already manage to narrow it down to 1-2 with a couple slight variations. If the new set up is handled properly, it will allow more personal preference choices, and the most exciting part about locked adept/master tiers is that it forces people to make harder decisions.

Ah. yes, well, serving the groupthink over all other player types is one goal they are accomplishing in spades.

The people who think there’s only 1-2 way to have fun with a class will still think that after this change – they gain or lose nothing. It’s the other players that are getting their options maimed.

The groupthink? Seems pretty common for people to be complaining right now. The key is setting up the game for a better future. Sometimes you have to give up something for something better. You will be alright, I promise. There will be new ways to play, and if you found a way you enjoyed before, I’m sure you will after HOT without having 2 points in some random off-tree. You’re exaggerating how much this is going to “kill” all of your precious builds.

if you werent playing a meta build, there is a very high chance your build will die.

as for giving up something to get something.
You are right in theory, but anet has a habit of making these systems that are supposed to allow them to do so much, so easily, that never happens.

the weapon skill system was supposed to allow them to introduce new weapons really easily. in 3 years, we are finally getting one new weapon per class.

the initial trait system was supposed to make it easy to add a new traitline/traits
in 3 years we get one new line, and overall trait number gets shaved.

Guild missions were supposed to be easy to add to, and how many new guild missions did they add?

basically many of the changes to make it easy to add to/fix, never really add much/fix to anything in practice.

Sure, there will always be variability with how much and how well the Devs pull it off, but that doesn’t make the system innately wrong. It has potential, and thats all that can be said either direction at the moment, but its certainly interesting and will definitely help with balancing the game.

And like I said, as for builds, its very rare people use 5 trees (not that it NEVER happens), or so on, but having some change isn’t innately bad. Especially when it causes players to have to make hard decisions. If people are missing taking two things at once, that should be considered a good thing. That means (finally) there felt like a real trade off, where as right now, many builds tend to fall into a certain (generally obvious) casting.

In the end, I’m confident people will be happy and find things they think are interesting in the new system, and for the most part, I’m sure many builds won’t change as much as people are thinking.

Nike.2631:

ronpierce.2760:

In addition, out of those MASSIVE amounts of “set ups” we already manage to narrow it down to 1-2 with a couple slight variations. If the new set up is handled properly, it will allow more personal preference choices, and the most exciting part about locked adept/master tiers is that it forces people to make harder decisions.

Ah. yes, well, serving the groupthink over all other player types is one goal they are accomplishing in spades.

The people who think there’s only 1-2 way to have fun with a class will still think that after this change – they gain or lose nothing. It’s the other players that are getting their options maimed.

The groupthink? Seems pretty common for people to be complaining right now. The key is setting up the game for a better future. Sometimes you have to give up something for something better. You will be alright, I promise. There will be new ways to play, and if you found a way you enjoyed before, I’m sure you will after HOT without having 2 points in some random off-tree. You’re exaggerating how much this is going to “kill” all of your precious builds.

Nike.2631:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

I’ll be pulling your questions out of Twitch chat, this forum post, and posts all over the forums and having our design team address them.

First the math:

• Right now a single trait line take to 6 points has 418 possible arrangements of traits. Ignoring anything other than 6/6/2 set-ups (and there are many other combinations that have well regarded examples) that gives 31,450,320 traits combinations per class.

• The new system allows a total of 27 arrangements per line. If you like two adept level traits, tough, you can’t have them. Ever. Being locked to exactly 6/6/6 means there is a total of 10 possible unique line combinations bringing the total number of trait set-ups per class to 196,830 (27^3×10). Add another 196,830 for each elite line they introduce.

• At HoT launch including the one elite spec-line per class we are going to drop down to one-eightieth (1/80 or 1.25%) of our current range of choices.

This is not subject to discussion. This is math. Almost 99% of all potential Build Diversity will be annihilated (and I’ve hedged heavily in favor of the new system by ignoring 6/4/2/2 builds and other non-standard but fun/effective set-ups).

Now THE QUESTION:

Was getting rid of bad choices really worth wiping out 99% of all choices?

I’d say very easily, yes. Many many of those are pseudo choices. Choices like that are often considered a trap, and regardless if it feels “open”, traps are bad for game design for many reasons. It makes it kitten new players and makes balancing impossible, which are the two main issues.

In addition, out of those MASSIVE amounts of “set ups” we already manage to narrow it down to 1-2 with a couple slight variations. If the new set up is handled properly, it will allow more personal preference choices, and the most exciting part about locked adept/master tiers is that it forces people to make harder decisions.

A billion pointless decisions with only one real answer < Several impactful decisions and having to really think of when to give up something for something else.

I think the turn out will be great as long as they keep up frequent balance changes after the Expansion hits.

I could probably join in depending on the time.

I will say, I’d either rather amulets not be buffed, and just have less tanky tanks/less bursty glass (in net less extremes across the board, but this includes Cele) which I think would be good for the game, OR some sort of gem system so we can at least shift around stats some way. I can’t say I’m a fan of pushing the extreme glass and extreme wall sort of playstyle further.

morrolan.9608:

ronpierce.2760:

I’ll gladly take a little less pseudo choice for a better way to balance.

This is what they said would happen in swtor and balance actually skewed worse with their discipline change.

Balance isn’t magic. Competencies still exist and matter, but it’s a better structure for balance.

And remember, this system makes balancing about a billion times easier as each trait becomes a little knob and specialization trees can be balanced in synergy without risk of hyper-hybrids or unexpectedly strong mixtures of traits of the same tier (multiple adept etc).

There theoretically will be less pseudo choice her and more actual preference based decisions. We just have to wait and see though.

My biggest fear currently is stat/power inflation and Elite specializations being mandatory.

Critical Kai.4985:

How exactly is weapon swapping going to work while having an elite specialization equipped?

No different. Druids (for example) can just use other base ranger weapons. A druid with druid equipped, however, is a druid regardless of equipped weapon.

People will realize that this isn’t that bad once it’s out and how it will pave the way for better balance and expansion later. I think people are in shock and a bit scared of losing current builds, which is understandable.

You all thought I was crazy… Feel my wrath.

I guess you will have to wait in see. In the mean time, try not being so bitter and enjoy some new stuff to play with once it gets here!

Many of these grandmaster traits may change. Also with stats changing and everyone having the same 3-GM benefit, it’s impossible to tell how this will turn out, simply because we don’t know what will even make it through or what else will change as they revisit the old traits. A bigger concern in general may be the possibility of a powercreep, but in willing to take a breath and hope for the best.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Supreme.3164:

silvermember.8941:

Supreme.3164:

….I’m genuinely confused O_O.

If somebody can clarify thing for me, it’d be great

Right now, as long as you have traits points you can go to an trait line.
Think 6/4/2/2/0

Expac

You can only have 3 active traits lines at any time BUT you can go all the way to master (6/6/6 no more 6/6/2/0/0 builds). No more traits points. The other change is that traits are locked in tiers, example

1. Soothing Ice: Gain regeneration and Frost Aura when you are struck by a critical hit.

2. Piercing Shards: While attuned to water, your spells deal more damage to vulnerable foes. Vulnerability lasts longer.

3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.

So, you can only select one of the three options. Once you select it, you cannot select the other 2 options ever. This will reduce build diversity technically, but it will allow the game to be hopefully easily balance.

The second change your stats will come mainly from gear, traits are no longer bound to stats. So if you wanted to you could play an Zerker elementalist, that has traits from water, earth and Arcane. Or Arcane, Fire, Air. Or Fire, water, earth etc.

If you still don’t get it, just watch READY UP tomorrow.

BlackBeard.2873:

Jekkt.6045:

0/0/6/6/6
elemental shielding, rock solid, diamond skin/stone heart or even the glyph grandmaster
armor of earth switched for glyph of elemental power

welcome to the (possible) new meta

It will come down to stone-heart ele vs. fresh-air d/d ele vs. tempest (specialization) ele. All keeping water/arcana most likely.

I think tempest is a skill type. Like tornado.

Ok thanks, but…amulet is the only gear allowed in PvP, each trait line currently has 2 stats associated to them, at this point I really wonder where these stats will come from now.

In a 40/30/30 amulet like soldier for exmaple i think anet will add something like +320 pts to primary stat and 240 pts to secondary stats.

Something like that.

That’s actually what I’m worried about, myself… I don’t want the stat balance to be forced more into pure defense and pure glass. That was already kind of an issue before. More extreme stats doesn’t sound very fun, but that’s just me.

Centurion.7296:

Yeah!, “automated unlocks” after you paid the 10g for each!

Sunk costs are sunk, you paid for the time. Just be happy we don’t have to spend anymore… >_>:

+1 Thanks.

Supreme.3164:

….I’m genuinely confused O_O.

If somebody can clarify thing for me, it’d be great

You pick 3 of the (6 come HOT) trait lines. You get a choice of 1 adept/master/GM trait. So you get 2 more major traits but you are confined in tier and only to 3 trees. Each trait will supposedly be rebalanced enough to make a legit consideration. That’s the basis.

On launch of this system, for oglers there will be 6 trees instead of 5 and more to come. I don’t think between 3/6 trees and 3 traits (more meaningful than before) over 9 points will necessarily be a bad amount of “diversity”. As always there will likely be a few best choices, but this route has fewer traps and better means of balancing. I’ll take that any day over the pseudo choices we have now. At least then we can have few choices still and a better shot at balance in the long run.

What people need to be more concerned with is a player with a defiance bar. :P sounds fun.

This will help, and let me be clear, LONG TERM* build diversity and more importantly than that, balance through the game. They are right now being FORCED to take a look at and cut or redesign triats falling behind. This will lead to better balance handles and eventually better diversity as things are tweaked to be more about choice rather than must-haves. And really, this game sort of needs this. As it stands we have a LOT of pseudo choices and most classes end up boiled down to 1 or 2 builds and that’s about it. The diversity “nerf” comes with better balance possibilities and the possibility of more preference based choices rather than just mandatory traits.

The stat removals alone will actually be a potential increase to diversity.

That said, smaller amount of traits total is very good for the game. The game had a lot of false choices (traps) and then a lot of mandatory traits (arcana, cleansing ire). These tracks help determine use-metrics a bit better because it’s streamlined, which COULD help build diversity in the long run if they are proactive, but most importantly, it will be much easier to balance the game.

I’ll gladly take a little less pseudo choice for a better way to balance.

Less (false) choice and mor streamlined mechanics are great.

I am a bit worried about no stats, not because I don’t think it needs to happen, I’ve said it for a long time, but the stat hold this has in sPvP worries me a bit… If they buff zerker and defensive go-tos, I’m worried it’ll make the burst vs bunker (and burst vs base hp) issues worse than they already are at times. But in willing to let it play out.

I’d say search is your friend, but I’m not sure how more obvious front page with a big red dev note next to it can get. :S

choovanski.5462:

well, it’s never going to be worse than the mortar. is there anything worse than the mortar?

Lesstar.

robertul.3679:

snip

That was my bad, Poison Grenade is unblockable*. (Arguably worse)

Also, the high conditions isn’t from a grenade directly. It’s a mixture of Sigils+Trait procs. However, I’ll just recant that statement in favor of more popular “meta” builds these days that run Accelerant Packed Turrets now instead of Shrapnel.

As for the comparisons, classes can’t be 1:1 compared like that, I’m simply stating pieces that can be tweaked that lend a hand in the issues with engineers, I’m not saying all should happen, I’m giving examples. Point is, however, that Celestial Rifle engineer is incredibly powerful, and it is beyond me how someone can deny that. Their Vuln-on-Explosion coverage alone is amazingly potent in covering condition, especially since it isn’t chance-based, its heal (and the way engineer works) tends to stand out far more than Healing signet (post nerf). And so on, too tired to really argue right now honestly.

And again, I tried to make it very clear, there ARE issues with other classes. Passing the blame doesn’t fix anything. Sometimes its okay to get nerfed once in a while, as long as its handled properly and tries to get at the roots of the issues and not ripping the rug out from under the build entirely.

Well, there is much to be said, its hard to deny Celerifle is a bit too strong. The problem is the full array of what they do that causes an issue. But players (especially engineers who don’t want touched) can justify each thing as being “fine”, but the overall kit and effectiveness is undoubtedly too powerful. Being “weak to conditions” isn’t a free walk to do whatever you want, every build has weaknesses, and usually several but it doesn’t mean some things don’t deserve to be looked at.

Examples for Celerifle (and no, calling them out doesn’t mean they’re the ONLY build that happens to be a bit too strong)
- Too much CC. Slick shoes is incredibly powerful, but its also a low cooldown CC break and mobility skill. Rifle has 2 no cast time CCs, their heal has an incredibly short cast AND aoe knockdowns. It gets to be a bit silly when just about anything they do applies a CC also, because why not? Something somewhere should eventually have to give.

- Healing Turret. tends to be more effective than it should be and is an unjustifiably fast cast huge heal.

- Their damage in celestial is incredibly potent even without the need for might stacking. Its an unusual circumstance to have as much fire power and defense without a huge reliance on boons to make up for weaker stats. There is much to be said about Engineers ability to pull of Celestial while other classes cannot, the issue isn’t the amulet itself but perhaps a base-to-coefficient issue for engineer abilities.

- They have absurd cover, a single grenade can apply something like 5-6 conditions in a single throw. That cover begins to extend to the point of uncounterable, especially since most full-cleanses have really long cooldowns and grenades frequently stack amazing condition pressure.

ALL of that said, a nerf doesn’t have to hit like a rocket turret (hehe). Minor adjustments across the board could fairly easily fix some of these issues without deleting the engineer in the process, so long as it isn’t handled like the Turret “nerf”.

Some GENERAL IDEAS (don’t think too deeply into this)
- Reduce Confusion on Pry Bar to 4.
- Increase cast time of Healing Turret to 1 second.
- Poison* grenade is no longer unblockable.
- Either Net shot or OCS gain a .5 second semi-noticable cast. (If net, increase the missile speed)
- Rework IP to something more active.

And this doesn’t have to be without buffs, sure, add a bit of condi removal in replace for some needed tone-downs, and in the long run, people start being happier and when the dust settles, Engineer will still be just fine, just like Hambow was after an arguably much harsher nerf.

Toodles!

Edited to fix some stuff.

CodeHavoc.7926:

Let me put it like this: There may be new skills tied with the specialization system that you can use with the Rev( Healing, Elites, etc), but it is in no way it will have a racially based legend. It seems pointless and hard to balance something like that across ALL races. As it was said before, its a profession not a race.

Engineer got unique racials due to class mechanism. It’s not totally out of the picture, though, unlikely that they will create special legends. The “profession not a race” argument has no point in this thread as it is simply asking how we will handle racials at all, not assuming we will get unique ones.

Turk.5460:

Its mind boggling how many people are arguing about “realism” and “immersion” for turrets taking conditions like poison and bleed.

• You’re playing a game. Probably don’t need to go further than this, yet we have to.
• You’re playing a game where you can cast electric abilities and spells under water. Big pieces of land mass float high in the sky.
• 4 turrets twice the size of the asura engineer that placed them seemingly appear out of thin air. One of them is literally a blunderbuss on a stick, yet fires by itself and intelligently finds enemy targets.
• Unlimited ammunition fired semi-automatically out of a flintlock-style pistol!
• An Asuran using a tiny sword to block multiple attacks from a gigantic norn’s 2h hammer
• Super Adventure Box
• Siegerazor

You don’t know how strong all asura are. That’s racist.

DarkHorse.1059:

Turret being conditioned is immersion breaking. You’re breaking my immersion. This is unacceptable. A turret isn’t alive how can it be poisoned or suffer bleeding?

Bleeding oil.
Burning parts.
Damaged (Weakened) mechanics misfire.
Mechanical malfunctions (Confusion)
Vulnerable (Damaging armor plating)
Taint fuel with poison.
Cripple/chill/fear/immob need not apply (doesn’t do anything, but still explainable).
Torment, well… It must be tormenting not having a soul and only being used for war, th torment is real.

#BeCreative.

^ Mental note: Avoid that twitch at all costs.

This might actually be a buff to Celestial Rifle turret engineer because the best use for the turrets seems to be the death knock-back which will happen very quickly after the change.