Guild Wars 2

Jekkt.6045:

arcana has 3 good traits: renewing stamina, elemental attunement and evasive arcana. all other arcana traits suck and are bad. furthermore does this tree reduce attunement cooldowns which makes this a must have.

to make other trees more viable they would practically have to overshadow those must haves, not only because they are good but also because of the attunement cd.

water tree is also a must have because of the low base health of elementalists.
there is more to it than just “op traits”.

I’m well aware of that, it doesn’t change the fact though that certain traits in the tree are OP, and it doesn’t take every trait to make it the dominating tree. Just enough to make a build from (which is the case).

Also, I’m well for changing the HP bases to 14/16/18k, but it would require a LOT of rebalancing of certain sustain tools some people have,and I’m just not sure ANet has the resources, nor the insight to do that in a fair swoop.

jportell.2197:

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

Not sure how you’d know if they were strong or not. All you do is kitten in chat all match, and spend the rest of the time in downed state. I’m sure anything seems OP to you. >_>

rotten.9753:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a bit of truth in that, considering Necro has Terror, they have an additional unique hard-hitting condition.

That said, IP still needs nerfed.

Ele Vigor could use a nerf too. In general, the Arcana tree is too powerful, while other trees aren’t good enough. Long story short, a lot of major rebalancing is needed, not necessarily just small changes here and there.

And engie has confusion. You cannot compare two identical traits when one is major and another is minor.

Uh, I can compare the fact that Ele has more than enough longevity and survival and that the Arcana tree completely dominates the Ele’s choice?

rotten.9753:

ArrDee.2573:

LOL

“Permanent vigor is too strong!”
“BOLD WORDS CAPS LOCK INSULTS INCREASE ELE HEALTH BY 5000!”

Wahoo! Bye frands!

The hypocrisy is strong in you when you compare ele’s vigour to mesmer’s or guardian’s when it’s already a major trait. On top of that, IP is master trait while dhuumfire is grandmaster one.

ArrDee.2573:

Because burning from a Necromancer is much different than burning from an Engineer!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

There is a bit of truth in that, considering Necro has Terror, they have an additional unique hard-hitting condition.

That said, IP still needs nerfed.

Ele Vigor could use a nerf too. In general, the Arcana tree is too powerful, while other trees aren’t good enough. Long story short, a lot of major rebalancing is needed, not necessarily just small changes here and there.

Jelzouki.4128:

Anyone can tailor a build to their liking for solo queue, the real way to get on the board is to actually do well in a tournament with it, get a team and show it off if its really that good.

Have you even read the “good” section on there? Guaranteed this has more practical use than several of those builds.

Only thing I’m upset is, like Stronghold, they won’t put 4v5 in its own que.

There’s a big difference between outfits and skins. Outfits are whole-armor covers generally sold for gems. It goes over armor but cannot be mix-and-matched. Armor skins however require transmutations, and change the appearance of an armor in the Wardrobe. Full armor sets are not Outfits, they’re just a full set of skins, and thus will always need to manually be transmuted.

Exedore.6320:

echo.2053:

Exedore.6320:

Mesmer
- Mirror Blade no longer unblockable
High damage attacks should be blockable.

oh I missed this gem lol – guys i think this skill should be nerfed because its highly telegraphed with a slow moving projectile, theres just no chance of my DODGING it so all I can do is block but its unblockable and i think its unfair pouty face

Give me a reason it shouldn’t be unblockable like practically every other damaging ability instead of crying that you’d no longer be able to spam it into blocks and not be punished for it.

Besides phoenix (which I also said to change), the only other naturally unblockable skills are ground-effect spells, interrupts, or boon steals. Making Mirror Blade blockable gives it consistency within the game. Why should a dodge or evade work, but a block shouldn’t?

Rym.1469:

The problem is, without Embrace the Pain, Warrior really struggles hard to keep any adrenaline. If Warrior was allowed to strike as many hits on any profession as on Necromancer, there would be no problem. But try getting adrenaline on S/D Thief, Mesmer or Engineer.

I’ll definitely agree that what you’ve pointed out is a problem. However, leaving Embrace the Pain as part of Cleansing Ire isn’t a good solution.

Imho, the Embrace the Pain part should be baseline for the class. For “rage” sort of classes, it often is, and frankly, warrior Adrenaline gain can be pretty awful. I think if they made it baseline it’d help diversify builds without nerfing (or buffing) current builds that run CI. Just a personal feels, though. Running without CI (even regardless of the condi clear) it just feels awful.

I wish they made some sort of like red armor highlight when dire pieces are making with a tooltip that says “missing pieces” or make runes only get 2 “pieces” per boots/legs/chest or both. Something to really grab attention.

Ah, I see.

It’s a real problem actually because not a lot of people realize that it does matter. I see topless people every so often and it makes me cringe because most times they don’t believe it matters.

Miku.6297:

Lazaar.9123:

Armor equipped means absolutely nothing in sPvP, except for the skins. The stats from armor, weapons and trinkets (excluding the sPvP stat amulet) are completely ignored. All your sPvP stats come from your traits, sPvP amulet, sigils and runes.

Are you 100% sure of this?

I’m asking about the defensive number I have circled in red.

I explained this, for decency, you need to have those 3 slots filled, but the stats have no effect beyond ensuring its filled, the gain is streamlined regardless of quality of the armor.

Ah. Yeah I could see that. +1. Adds a skill factor to it, I’m down with that.

The only stats that matter in sPvP (mists) is that you need boots, chest, legs, as they do give you armor. So not having that slot filled will hurt you (probably a decency measure). That said, the armor quality of it doesn’t matter, just have to have something there.

Drennon.7190:

Banishing bodies out of SR doesn’t reveal them. Nerf plz!

See look i can be bias too!

I don’t see that as a bias, I see that as a consistency…. That actually should happen….

But I also think knockbacks should move bodies just like launches.

LeftyGamer.8096:

Heres a couple changes I would make, just to tell you guys my situation, I main ele so I might be biased

D/D:
-remove what they did a while back, burning speed evade and/or frozen burst being a blast finisher
-Make churning earth usable, lowering damage and cast time

Scepter:
-Make dragon’s tooth aoe
-Buff autos they really suck
-Make shattersone worth casting, either it chills or does more damage
-eles need a shorter defensive cd so maybe give ob flesh shorter duration and short cd

-Staff:
-Fire and Water attunement are fine the way they are
-Air auto should only hit 1 target but do more damage than fire
-air 2 has an incredible cast time for the small damage it does so either shorter cast time or more damage
-make air 3 reliable, currently any side movement on either end makes it miss
-in earth erruption need a short cast time/errupt time, currently it takes 2 ccs to secure it (3 if they are running)

What do you mean by “Make dragon’s tooth AoE”? Like ground targeted?

Nerf

tronjeremy.5820:

They asked to trash it 2 days after it went to test mode and it seemed people rallied to downvote it. I don’t much care. People asked me about the build so I thought I would share. I’m not gonna fight for it. I’m just going to keep using it in game.

If you have the link it’s still available it just wont be seen from the main page.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_S/D_Condition

This is a success story! You helped the community, your build is still uncommon, people won’t be blindly stealing it then either complaining about it or (on the other spectrum) defend it without a clue on how to use it anyways.

This is all around good. Grats on your build friend!

Did you really just say well or MM me to have as much sustain as an Ele…? Whaaat? MM is garbage and good at 1v1 and not because of “sustain”, but a high initial Health pool and hoping minions kill someone before AOEd down in 10 seconds or less. In a team fight they have essentially no sustain. O.O

I don’t get people who play Engies, Eles and Thieves. So many seem so entirely detached from reality. >_>

I agree with Vee Wee. Staff, D/D, scepter, so on do fine, even if they aren’t your “meta” builds. Arcana as a tree is grossly overshadowing any other tree and it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Perma vigor was nerfed because it created an unfun playing field of high evasion, and honestly at this point, if anyone needed to lose that I’d say Ele would be my first choice for many reasons. Arcana is fair too strong of a tree and ele sustain is amazing (zerkers maybe not as much, but I don’t think a zerker ele needs perma vigor to be effective, and it could be made up somehow in either scepter or focus abilities).

@phanta You really don’t see an issue when (just about, if not) all Ele builds require 4-6 points into Arcana to even be effective, but the builds that do somehow manage to take a low hp/light armor base class and turn it from otherwise unviable to arguably one of the strongest builds in the game? (D/D, but staff can be fairly effective too.)

I find it to be a real issue.

I do think with the number (hard hits) possibilities in the game, they really should consider rebalancing th games HP classes around 14, 16 and 18k base and then maybe slightly reduce the sustain granted from Arcana (don’t break it but lower boon durations a bit). I think it’d do a lot of good for the game, but would need quite a bit of tweaking to go along with it. My worry is there just isn’t the available resources to make the changes and fixes the game really needs.

Berserker stance doesn’t need charges. That would ruin it. Sometimes abilities need to just be able to work. What needs to happen is a CD reduction to 40 seconds but only last 5 seconds. (Goes from 13% uptime baseline to 12.5%, so not a major change there) but much less time all at once, which is key to making stances a bit more balanced. And since BS isn’t a stunbreak the change won’t cause any nasty side effects. That’s what should happen to BS IMO.

Alekt.5803:

Maybe nerf the class in general and they would only need to reduce the hp on the Thumper.

Yeah, that’s the thing that sort of baffles me about all of this. People keep complaining about turret engies and conveniently forget that the class is OP with celestial too. And they keep having to get nerfed, and always have some sort of back up that ends up seeming just as effective. I think the way kits are needs to be looked at, and I think the class in general could use some serious rebalancing. Specifically tool/grenade kits in comparison to the other 3, and possibly a better way to handle builds that would like to specialize in one of their other utility types.

Lol Love the over use of the world Hack.

I’m not worried about spectral skills lone, my point there was that it added to the already non-scaling issue. My overall point being it’d be nice to have SOME sort of reasonable scaling defense.

Bitty.1409:

Can y’all shut the hell up about him doing this to favor his team. God you guys are so kittening annoying, just disagree with his opinion don’t attach a motive to it.

You missed the whole point of that argument lol. Someone said how dare someone disagree with Phataram, so we pointed out that he’s just another player with biases and agendas, and not to overvalue his opinion just because he’s a good player. It started out as a disagreement. Lol

Especially when you consider multi-hit attacks, the fact that people often attack faster than 1 time per second and multiply it by multiple targets, it tends to add up fast. Having some non-scaling isn’t that bad though. It’s just that necromancer is basically limited to only having non-scaling defenses outside of baseline dodges and The rare bits of protection, which is the weakest form of scaling defense (from blocking, evading, vigor*, etc.)

Weakness would be a good alternative that is more outwardly applied instead. However, condition clears are a bit too common as weakness access is already pretty limited.

The irony (or maybe not so much irony) that he somehow managed to not notice the clear biases in the proposals. Ring of warding is some how trouble some, yet D/D ele and Cele rifle is perfectly fine. Just doesn’t really jive with me, honestly.

Btw Slick shoes is a bit more frustrating than RoW.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

PowerBottom.5796:

haha, you’re really gonna argue with phantaram? ^^’

Should we just go with what all the top players say regardless of how random and biased it seems?

Why should he not have people arguing against him? As far as I know, this is a discussion forum, not a boot-licker one – and I am willing to argue against anyone regardless of their position within the PvP scene if their suggestions seem out of place, and in this case, brutal without any compensation for Hammer as a whole

Fanboys will be fanboys. It happens everywhere, people overvalue the opinion of people the idolize. Not worth trying to change that behavior, it won’t ever happen.

Ugh. I can’t see me only wanting to make "small" changes... But I’ll try... This might sound like a lot of nerfs, but to prevent power creep from continuing, I feel it’s necessary. Feel free to rage at me. <3

Ranger:
- Fix projectile distance to 1500 instead of floating to 1950.
- Ranpage as One only 1 stack of stability (to match other offensive elites).
- Rework sword auto attack to remove janky animations.

Engineer:
- Frost grenade is now blockable.
- IP changed (Not real sure a fair, active but also intuitive way.)
- Increase cool down of gear shield to 25 seconds.
- Magnet pull effect visible while stealthed.
- Healing Turret 1 second cast time.
- Add a minor, but relevant condition cleanse in some way for general use that doesn’t require breaking a build entirely to obtain.
- Turrets need heavier changes than I wish to list here to fix them without breaking them entirely:

Warrior:
- Increase time adrenaline lasts after combat, and degen slower.
- Charge increased to 18 seconds base (less harsh).
- Earth Shaker increased responsiveness. (Sometimes lags when pathing)
- Slight area reduction on combustive shot as adrenaline increases.
- Regain 50% adrenaline on an evaded/missed burst skill. (Not including combustive shot as it "always hits", abilities still have the cooldowns. Mostly in effort to help non cleansing ire builds, or at least take steps to try to reduce the dependency on it and burst mastery.)
- Move some Axe AA damage to Cyclone Axe and possibly throw Axe.

Elementalist:
- Don’t know enough to really say anything intelligent, even with bias.
- In general, reduce FA "instant" damage combos, but compensate more telegraphed attacks with stronger effects. (Not a fan of too much instant play in general. Just don’t kill the build when doing so.)

Necromancer:
- Don’t allow Touch of Death to function in down (state in tooltip). Scales too harshly with boon rip, executioner and downed damage modifiers. It’s fun, but too much.
- Reduce Life Blast damage by 20% (roughly*) but reduce cast time to 3/4. Reduce range penalty to 25% less damage beyond 600u. (Lots of reasons I want this.)
- Change Dhuumfire to 1 second of Burning per lifeblast. (Gives condi necros a reason to Life Blast, if it can be balanced right, may give alternative to CtD for more streamlined dps. Less ICDs. And opens possibilities for alternative runs sets to be used.)
- Reduce Life force on Staff 1 to 3%. Make marks gain 1% life force baseline.
- increase scepter LF gain.
- Start matches at 15% life force.
- Anything else is too much explaining or changing overall, not simple.

Thief:
- Make chill reduce initiative gain (not by 66%, maybe 33%. Shouldn’t be ignored entirely.)
- Find a way to make Powerlock affect them.
- find SOME way to make Steal slightly less insane in a single instant press. (No clue.)

Guardian:
- No real comments as of yet. I could see The Ring of Warding cool down increased.

Mesmer
- Again, no real answers. They don’t seem terrible, just countered by thieves.
- Make "The prestige" cause reveal in an AoE when used. :P

General:
- Streamline downed effects. All or no "knockbacks" should move a downed skill (Overcharged shot does, Warrior hammer 4 doesn’t. I don’t understand the inconsistency.)
- Being removed from shadows refuge removes the stealth. This should happen to downed players as well.

That’s a good start IMO... Love it or hate it, further adjustments may need to happen as well, but I think at least some of these should happen.

Edit: I understand there is technically a different between "launch" and "knockback". But I still see no reason why one should work and the other not, as both should theoretically move the body. Of course, it’s all just personal preference.

Only problem is, it furthered our already dire non-scaling defense situation. They essentially made the spectral skills effective in the same way DS already was which furthered the 1v1 bias and made fighting in small teams problematic if you didn’t have essentially “babysitting” type support. Perhaps that’s why they can be effective in WvW but still struggle to land a SOLID spot in tpvp.

Of course, roaming mobility plays a part in that too. I think stronghold will be a big time for learning to see just how much potential is held (across all classes and builds) within the boundaries of standing on points and being able to effectively rotate timely.

zone.1073:

Offensive options need to remain strong in this game to keep sustain/defensive builds in check. If offense were weakened, such as a nerf to damage sigils like air/fire, then sustain/defensive builds would be unstoppable, and a turtling metagame would take over.

That’s obviously not true. If that were the case, Engi v Engi or Ele v Ele (or any other mix) would already never end, and that’s certainly not the case. They don’t die in 5 seconds like berserker lovers would like, but they do, and especially so when in team fights and you can coordinate a bit.

Best way to balance them:

Chance on critical hit, cause your next attack to cause a lighting strike/fire blast.

Create a “buff” like swap sigils. If it misses via evade/block it consumes the charge. There; now it’s like swap sigils, less “safe” and even opens opportunities to avoid it. No other nerfs needed.

/signed.

timemaninjail.2657:

Sidizen.9048:

As ArenaNet has said in past interviews, they want to make gw2 friendly to all players. This means having builds (ahem Turret Engineers) that can make bad players compete on the same level as good players. I want turret engineers to be nerfed as much as anyone else, but it won’t happen. Not like what I’m saying will make any difference though, Anet probably won’t even read this post :P.

That is so false, bad player will always lose to better player.

That’s not possible. That is to say, a better player will always beat a “bad” player (which is subjective in its own as to what constitutes bad), and win ratios just don’t come out that way. Even though this game is more skill oriented than a lot of MMOs out there, it didn’t get the name “Build wars” for nothing. That, and there’s still a significant amount of luck that goes into it.

Skill is an edge, and that edge can be pretty big, but when 60% of your damage comes from objects, you sometimes have to admit, someone might have lost from luck and mechanics rather than being outplayed.

All of that said, I still don’t hate turrets. I like area denial as a concept, and tower defense is sort of an interesting take on it. There is real risk in overly relying on an immobile object (and by real risk I mean it can’t very well be compensated for, unlike the squishiness of anzerker thief or guardian who has sufficient tools that can curb that weakness with sufficient knowledge and skill). Plus it’s nice for players to feel like they don’t have to be 17 and a twitch God just to compete. In fact, I’m highly against that notion, not only because it alienates people, but the faster paced and twitchier things are the more luck is involved.

Overall, I think turrets need to be reduced in personal AA power, buff the active damage a bit, lower turret cooldowns a bit to promote rotating (or make picking them up reduce cool downs closer to 50-70% instead of 25%[?]). And maybe change the Turret barrels from a turret damage buff to instead make your own attacks deal power based damage based on the number of turret utilities you run (sort of like a shot gun) that would also promote other amulet types such as celestial/zerker by making more of the engineers damage scale by stats.

There are ways to handle it and make it fun and interesting without demolishing it in a fit of rage. Put on your thinking caps instead of crying for build obliterations. That’s all.

(Note: This isn’t all directed at the quoted person.)

Personally, I wish people would stop valuing Zerker so much lol. Why do people have such a kitten for glass cannons with the goal of having 2-5 second fights that have a lot to do with lucky dodge rolls/evade frames? Because if you’re honest with yourself, it comes down to it a lot… I just don’t see the appeal. I love Celestial in what it means, causes a middle ground for those builds. The only problem with Celestial is might stacking that causes them to do unjustified damage, its not the amulet itself. A 0 might (ever) celestial ele is not very scary at all.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Rozbuska.5263:

Casuals will jump on other cheesy build

No way? That happens? :O

And here I thought the Lyssa Hambow from the old days was supah skilled and hard to use :O

Speaking of… Since the nerf to stability, I wonder if they could revert the Nerf a bit and make it a viable but not OP alternative again.

Sorel.4870:

ronpierce.2760:

Puts not really possible to do get the leeching Sigil every 9 seconds… With 10 second swaps.

Do you even engi bro?

Actually I don’t! thank goodness. But is it even common for Engi to run leeching? Thought they ran Doom and intel/battle. Either way. Still, much of the same considerations exist.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Fire & Air is nothing compared to Air & Blood and then Leeching on the other swap

Go try that kitten stuff out in a 1v1 server, life steal is seriously OP atm

• Sigil Of Blood = 450 damage to opponent and heals you for 450, per 5 seconds
• Sigil Of Leeching = 974 damage to opponent and heals you for 974 per 9 seconds
  upon that, the life steal surpasses toughness rating and protection buffs

Puts not really possible to do get the leeching Sigil every 9 seconds… With 10 second swaps.

There’s also proc reality with sigil of blood. But also, with sigil of leeching, a blocked (and evaded?) attack can waste the charge.

They’re fine, blood is better than leeching though because you can’t accidentally waste crit sigils.

New meta:

Hammer Engineer with Flying drone turrets.

Be ready to experience history! #HoT

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

My preferred re-envisioning for Death Shroud is to make it similar to Devil Trigger from the original Devil May Cry games. Needs to be built up, but when activated it becomes a powerful form, regenerating health rapidly as the attacks hit harder.

Didn’t kill that Necro fast enough? Now you’re going to pay for it.

I wouldn’t mind a hyperdrive type mechanism. But tbh I’m not really sure Necromancer jumps at me as the hyperdrive sort of class. (Assuming you mean also that it doesnt act as a sponge, and doesnt give you new skills but empowers your current ones). I do think it’d be fun to have that as a class mechanic in general though…

Unfortunately I doubt gw2 will have any new classes.

Turk.5460:

robertul.3679:

It’s not engineer that’s ruining pvp it’s the turkittens.
Big difference.

What do my kittens have to do with this!?

O.o

Touche Turk, you win one internet today. Don’t spend it all in one place.

robertul.3679:

It’s not engineer that’s ruining pvp it’s the turkittens.
Big difference.

Its safer to say all engineer. Turrets are ruining low-tier pvp for low tier players, frustrating for higher tier, and Celestial Rifle/Grenade engi is far too powerful in high tier (or really any tier, just turrets are quicker to be effective in lower tiers).

It’s a great idea.

Only concerns: Bans might have to be IP bans. Maybe add some sort of anti-spam mechanics that make it so that new pvp-only things can’t message or mail players outside of the mists, idk. They could come up with ways to limit gold sellers (f2p games handle it, no reason anet can’t.)

It would do a lot do good though.

Archaon.9524:

style.6173:

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

nah that would nerf all engi specs

just nerf all turrets aside from healing into oblivion and gg

Some might argue all Engi builds need a nerf there. HT has been a long standing master heal. After they did this they could actually buff some others, that’d be nice. Maybe even slightly buff the base heal to compensate (probably definitely needed)

Aenye.2390:

very creative
not even destructive too
whats the actual point of the thread?
to defend pve lifestyle within pvp ? your numbers are decreasing, im sorry
you won’t soap peoples eyes anymore
not after excessive stacking

This is probably the most useful thread we’ve had in a while. Moral of the story:

It’s okay to have weak points. Most complaints are made before proper learning is done. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses and people who play those builds have knowledge and are often willing to help you learn, even if you are just a noob venting.

More has been said here thats truthful than numerous “nerf everything into the ground!” Threads.

Celestial engi is still pretty much a dps build. It’s a more offensive celestial where as others are more for survival. And celestial engi is a meta keystone. Hard to fall that a D. Unless you’re calling people who play Engineers D’s, in which case I may agree.

Sublimatio.6981:

i dont like the idea. necro needs buffs, not redesigns imo

That’s debatable. The reason being, everything with necromancer scales directly against how many people it is fighting. It’s defenses are numerical absorbs. For instance:

Necromancer absorbs 10,000 damage in a fight. Against 1 player, he absorbed 10000 damage.
Against 2 he absorbed 10000 damage as well (assuming he lives long enough to do so).

By contrast an evasive player with blocks/alternative defenses
Evades ~7000 damage against a single player in a given fight.
It evades ~14,000 against 2 players.

The issue escalates from there. Life force also requires build up find which isn’t easy on front loaded fights.

Okay so you want to buff Necromancer to be good in teams so enough to absorb about the equivence of 2 people attacking you. (14,000 damage to equal other classes), then it becomes way too powerful against 1 person.

That’s the issue with necromancer. Necromancer is a number sponge and doesn’t scale correctly with number of enemies, where as blocks/evades/protection does. You really… Can’t balance around that very well. Not to mention, the initial issue of stsrting with essentially 0 defense that needs to be “charged up” before you can do it.

That’s why I feel the way it is now will never work. It’ll either frustrate people 1v1, or not be good enough in rising numbers.

See, I see this a LOT, but really, X isn’t that bad… And it certainly doesn’t need to be removed. I think they need to focus on ways to increase the risk of playing X, but not remove it all together. X does well in 1v1, but it really doesn’t offer much to the team, and as such, different builds have different strengths and weaknesses. If your class was as strong at supporting a team as it was in 1v1 it would be broken, so maybe focus on fighting with your team to overcomes 1v1 builds such as X.

I have played X since alpha, so I know it has many counters. For instance, roaming as X can be hard because of poor “missing skill set”, which is why you see a lot of Ys in the meta on good teams rather than X, but I can see why you’re frustrated.

If you need help learning how to fight X, just whisper me in game and we can do some 1v1s and kitten the issue!

~ Veteran X Player

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I agree that Turret engies need nerfing, but you’d make your point better if you refrained from using the general description of ‘cheese’ while describing it.

Most people use ‘cheese’ to describe something they cannot personally beat, not something bad for the pvp game as a whole.

Or making points to try to make it less cheap and more skill-based.

DeTriX.4503:

Everyone will have a blast regardless who sings or not

But it’s all about the META…. Nerf Abjured.

Ross Biddle.2367:

ronpierce.2760:

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

Pretty much change the title of this thread to

“To many thieves, not enough telegraphs”

;D

For now, this is actually kind of true, but even if thieves were removed from the equation, it would be replaced with other instant bursters like FA Ele and Shatter Mesmers, who tend to only be less existent atm due to their weakness to thief (the king roamer, essentially).

Shatter mes isnt instant in the way thief skills/utils are. The shatter skills themselves are to a degree, but the clones need to be on top of the target for the effect to be instant, and the potency is dependent on the number available. Even IP requires the mesmer to be on top of the target. Now, for the mes to do his signature “burst” he has to run through a whole huge setup that doesn’t happen with the push of a single button. You can see it coming, and have time to mitigate.

As for Fresh Air ele’s, they’ve got the instant casts, but have other drawbacks.

I’m not discussing draw backs. I understand they are somewhat balanced around it, but that isn’t my point. FA Ele can do way too much instant damage that doesn’t allow for real reaction which leads to luck fights and/or instagibbing. Sure, they’re paper, but the build itself, wreck or be wrecked doesn’t really set up interesting play if you ask me. Shatter, sort of similar but not quite as bad.