Guild Wars 2

I literally answered exactly how this happens (not saying I support THAT it happens) and got interacted… Just a fair warning, don’t be too honest or be extra careful how you answer this concern… It’s not worth it.

Gabriell.4856:

SOH is far from passive….

While it may not be exactly passive, it does add another layer of ridiculousness to the already most powerful ability in the whole game, and on a pretty short cooldown. o.O Hard to deny that. I don’t really have a vendetta against thieves anymore, but steal is pretty kitten crazy. I mean have you looked at the traited tooltip on it? Its like 10 pages long.

Jelzouki.4128:

“panic strike is dumb”

great title….not.

Seems to get right to the point, doesn’kitten You knew what to expect when you clicked on it. #SuccessfulTitleIsSuccessful

Sagat.3285:

Evilek.5690:

Change all turrets like Spirit Weapons on guardian. -> 30-45 sec durations CD 30-45 sec(start when turrets is detroyed) This change fix all problems.

No SWs on guardian are terrible, give turrets the banner treatment those made all three 3 modes. How does it fix floating turrets?

What’s “the banner treatment”? Banners don’t do anything but supply an AOE buff. Nothing you could do to either would really allow them to be related in the same way. o.O Except that they can be picked up…

Because they’re overly tanky atm, but engineers want more mobility on turrets, I think something like this would be great:

Change Autotool Installation (5% HP/3 seconds) to, Quick Re-position: Picking up a turret reduces the cooldown by 50% (Instead of 25%?) and grants the engineer 5 seconds of swiftness.

I think this would be a good step in the right direction as far as handling placement and mobility. (Doesn’t fix the damage/CC for effort issue though)

I like the idea on Improvisation. That, or just simply "Resets the cooldown of a random utility when you steal. (Though I think yours has more merit because I think the worst part of Improv is extra Shadow Refuges in quick succession). Its certainly a better idea than how it is now which is just crazy RNG swings in power.

Unfortunately, Panic strike isn’t likely to change. There are so many passive procs in this game, to clean it all up they’d have to redesign a TON of traits. It just isn’t likely… That said, it is sort of frustrating though how much feels completely passive and in no-way controlled other than RNG or “points of battle” (50% hp).

StarlightBreaker.8512:

Cele Rifle Engineer is not even OP at all. We’re a class with only one stun break most of the time and Necromancer and variants of Mesmer just run all over us. If Cele didn’t exist, Necromancer would be almost unbeatable and I’d be forced to play Static Discharge builds due to Necro being Condi + anti-Condi. Also, we only have 2-3 condi cleanse max per 20 seconds. How are we OP?

Let’s focus on the real problem here which are the turrets…

Lol that has proven to not be true… CeleRifle is incredibly powerful… There’s a reason tourney runners run celestial rifle and not Turrets…

William C.6195:

ronpierce.2760:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@Royal

Cele Ele is being pushed out of the meta by medi guards. Shoutbow is more op currently.

Erm… I don’t think Shout bow is remotely more OP than Celestial Engineer. o.O Maybe a little tankier, but Celestial Rifle engi can CC like a MFR and deal quite a bit of damage. Maybe not as “teamy” but Celestial Engineer is still pretty kitten OP.

And regardless, many would argue Shoutbow and Meid guardian are a OP too, doesn’t really mean celestial rifle doesn’t need toned down, because they really do. #NoPowercreep

He said ele, not engi.

Ah so he did. My bad! The person he quoted said Ele and Engi, misread it, assuming it had to do with Cele engi since this thread was mostly about Engi.

That said, I still hope Celestial Engineer gets looked at too.

I think a good 1 size fits all solution would be to move Accelerant packed Turrets to go back to master tier, that way there is a choice between an interrupting heal or IP for grenades, and it’s out of practical reach for turret engineers who would have to let go of either Boons, turret damage/range or Turret reflect for it.

BlackTruth.6813:

This would be broken a long time ago, but thanks to ANET’s power creep you may as well give Warrior instant cast.

Even though it’s going to make Warrior broken.

GG ANET.

Everyone else gets instant attacks out the wazoo, why not warriors too?! :P

No, but really, some of the aftercasts on Warrior makes them feel incredibly clunky, I agree… Some attack times could be reduced, but more than anything, aftercasts need to be seriously looked at.

Superform.1067:

making balance changes based on whiney kids feedback is fail

turret engies are fine – only those who don’t know how to fight them cry

there is a reason no one plays them competitively – think about that before you nurf them anymore

That’s really not true. Two of them can be a very unreasonable thing to have to deal with in a single match. One, you might have some grounds to your argument. But also, the reason people want them nerfed goes a bit beyond effectiveness and has a bit to do with both easy of play and how much is passive as well as the effectiveness. Not to mention 2+ the clutter just looks bad on the developers.

That said, Cele Rifle is still worse IMO.

I sometimes do to try to clear any potential blinds on me before I use my CC or if I think I can break a guys Aegis that might help me get up, or if someone else is close to death. Other than that though, as a Shoutbow warrior I really don’t even try. On my Necro, it just helps me stay alive because it drains HP.

I try to be aware of nearby ally thieves though.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@Royal

Cele Ele is being pushed out of the meta by medi guards. Shoutbow is more op currently.

Erm… I don’t think Shout bow is remotely more OP than Celestial Engineer. o.O Maybe a little tankier, but Celestial Rifle engi can CC like a MFR and deal quite a bit of damage. Maybe not as “teamy” but Celestial Engineer is still pretty kitten OP.

And regardless, many would argue Shoutbow and Meid guardian are a OP too, doesn’t really mean celestial rifle doesn’t need toned down, because they really do. #NoPowercreep

Booms.3952:

surprised not everyone is saying how necessary grenadier is for engis

Or the Grenade kit in general. I’m sick of seeing them honestly lol…

Sagat.3285:

BlackBeard.2873:

A lot of times devs play builds that are either perceived as “too strong” and often those “not quite there yet” in order to better understand what makes them strong/weak so that they can make more intelligent adjustments.

I wouldn’t read too much into this.

Which one of them plays necro?

As of recently, Karl had been PVPing on his necro. It was his last class to 1000 games played, but he has currently been playing it (it it does sort of show too, with the FitG changes and so on).

style.6173:

Some of the people in this thread scare me. They want buffs to NPCs or new guard abilities? You have PvE for that.

The issue with the game mode is that it is TOO much about the NPCs. The player aspect is almost secondary. I want to see player kills/death count for a lot more than they do today.

While I agree with this, generally speaking, I still think archers are too useless. I’d be fine with them not being super tanky (killable by enemies with minimal effort) if they did enough damage to players just to break up and discourage excessive turtling. Turtling isn’t my idea for great PVP either. NPC/ Objective based PVP > playing wall.

Me + 4 clones. It would be unstoppable.

Cleansing Ire needs to be #1 for Warriors lol.

FalconBeta.9185:

runeblade.7514:

FalconBeta.9185:

Archers are far from useless. They deal lots of instant damage to guards.
Heck, i’ve seen 1 archer solo 2 guards at the same time. They’re pretty strong.
The only change i’d add is make them ignore players, sort of like skritt do.
Other than that, they’re fine.

Lol no.

Archers gets easily distracted by players. If there is one defender, archers do 0 damage to guards.

Which is why I clearly stated they should consider making Archers ignore players.

I dont think thats the way though… I think they’d be far more effective as a unit if they did higher damage to players so that they could be spawned to discourage turtling.

I fully expect they will be made to 100% ignore player-spawned AI eventually…

Well you aren’t known as “insane” seagull for nothing, I guess.

oiseau.6481:

You are not getting the good point of it.
For what i’ve seen, when the first door opens, bombs are useless for a while, so you can either use your runner to get the gards or let him pop archer for constant support.
Anyway for him to pull something else is useless.

when guards are down it’s fine to pop skritt

No? Just hit all the mobs and they aggro you… I’ve ran all 5 initial bombers to the lord and won in about 3 minutes before. Only time that doesn’t happen is heavy defense, but in which case I wouldn’t start spawning archers instead, I’d just clear defense a bit and start gathering supplies and push with more bombers and kill the other NPCs in the defense fight.

I tend to agree. I already wasn’t a fan of Conquest though. I have always enjoyed 2v2 and 3v3 elimination type pvp. But this really stuck out to me. I was running a shoutbow warrior, escorting, and the beginning was often the same, but almost every game had me all OVER the place working my tail off pushing O, dropping to defend…. Its been amazing….

Also, the clutch plays are amazing. Bannering the lord as he’s being stomped and winning the game by 5 seconds because of it! You just don’t get that in conquest… It’s not nearly as fun even if it is close, it just trickles in, it’s not intense.

Khalisto.5780:

Sagat.3285:

Vieux P.1238:

Angrybirds has more of a chance to be Esport. This game will never be Esport.

^This, they can advertise it and promote in some cases in GW2 it’s better to watch then live. They should rather focus on the in game aspect of PvP give players who focus on other modes a reason to PvP this mode is dodged by many who only play the other two or use it as a training ground, some argue PvE is the main focus honestly I can’t really tell lol.

PvE is actually ruining any chance for this game to be an Esport, I dont think any other Esports have any modes if not the competitive one, they were kinda born Esport they were not something else that tried to become an Esport.

Unless You count WoW as one. Many argue it is an ESport and it didn’t even have pvp at release.

Conditions are already super OP As defense… caltrops thieves and survival rangers can screw a set of npcs in a few abilities and have to do nothing else.

Deli.1302:

• 15 minutes feels too short
• Score mechanic is flawed. A team that gets a higher score can just turtle in their base and wait till the end for their win. A better endgame mechanic (VoD!) would be awesome.
• Archers are useless. The guard npcs can be easily killed by the players themselves so we can spend more supply on doorbreakers.
• Supply at the start of the match feels wrong. My team was just insta summoning 5 doorbreakers at the start and they would brute force the outer gate down fairly easily.

People don’t realize it yet, maybe, but supplies at the start are MANDATORY. If they remove it, SH becomes much less of a formation game and more of a HUGE supply 5v5 zerg and the games basically over as soon as one team wins it…

I ran that set up hehe. I was a shoutbow warrior (Tribal Lord Sikari) escorting with AOE swiftness and my buddy Bioshoc K ran caltrops defense. We had some 3 min games and other total lock out games forcing enemies into defense with little room to progress. It was fantastic! :P

I like this thread. It has potential.

They just need to deal heavy damage to Players. It would make them have a serious purpose. The could help break a defensive line on a push!

Moar damage to players + run faster than Doorbreakers = more valuable choice, especially late game or in a game of high defense.

Is this GS only? CS and Flurry doesn’t do this that I’ve noticed.

Some of the stuff you said can be higher level play too, which always has a chance to backfire.

1.) Decapoing and leaving. Sometimes is used to slow points but it takes a long time to cap so you re-assist your allies.
2.) Let downed players rally themselves. If done right, you can keep a player out of a match for a long time by making them think they can rally but interrupting it. It’s a bit of psychology to make it work and sometimes if you mess up (especially against a guardian or ranger) you can accidentally give them a rez.

The others might need more context, depends. May not always be trolling. However it’s always good to just ignore rage heads, maybe even block them. It’ll help your enjoyment in the long run.

I won 19:3 in my games, I generally suggested against spawning archers. Initially they are pretty bad, beyond that, you still need the second door open, and once you’re in you can Zerg it. They don’t hold a lot of value IMO. Maybe if they ran faster and did more damage to players to help break through a player defense I could see them being used more, until then though they just really aren’t worth the time and effort to summon. Heroes are, though.

kitten YOU KENTUCKYYYYY!

(????)?????

Exedore.6320:

kdaddy.5431:

I honestly cant help but chuckle at people who think this is better then conquest.

After this beta, the stronghold fanboyism will decrease significantly.

The biggest problems with stronghold are:
1. Stronghold snowballs pretty hard. If you screw up pulling guards away from doorbreakers, your offense push fails. If your opponents’ pull the guards successfully, they’re through the second gate and will likely win. There’s no way to come back from that.
2. Focus is too heavily on the NPCs. It’s all about killing/defending the doorbreakers and aggroing guards away from them. The players are an obstacle to focusing on NPCs, but unless you’re a full glass build, you wait until you’re through both doors to deal with players.

In contrast, conquest by its very design gives the team with more nodes a disadvantage by having to spread thinner in order to hold them. It’s a natural comeback mechanic, not a forced one. The few NPCs in conquest are only the focus for a short time.

I had a team come back from a no door down -> our boss exposed. They get very Rushy, have 3 guys defend, have a warrior with a banner or some other hard-rez, (precast it when needed) and have 2 focus on doors on your team, they’ll get completely ignored. Keep wiping them, heal your lord a bit, sometimes they will split up, and from there you can zerg it. That’s what we did. I think the bigger issue is if other people are winning people give up!

I think its pretty close to fine.

NPCs could be a LITTLE stronger, but if they change it too much I think you’ll find that offense would become impossible, and defending would likely the best way to play. Defending + Guards would become way too valuable if they buffed the value of guards too much. Their role is to kill other NPCs, not players and they do that well.

Archers honestly, didn’t feel THAT necessary to me. Door breakers and escorting them seemed much smarter, then 4-5 man pushing the boss for the stomp. Maybe if Archers were faster and did more damage to players they’d be more useful.

I wish we could support the heroes a bit more. I’d love if heroes had a downed state! That’d be king. Right now, they tend to ignore everything and die fairly easy even if you are “supporting” them. There’s honestly only so much you can do to help them.

Door breakers are fine, the door doesn’t break too fast. People just need to learn to defend! After that first push, door breakers trickle in much slower, so just don’t ignore your defensive lane early on!

StugLyfe.2134:

he can’t cap but he can kill with 12k Killshots, If they don’t do something i’m done with this game.

It wouldn’t bother me so much but this guys one of the Biggest smack talkers in the game and a very well know warrior, absolutely no need for him to cheat this way.

You can cap underwater by swimming under the point. At least, you used to be able to, i havent tried in a while.

I had lots of fun… But I guess going 17:3 will do that regardless of what you’re doing. :/

Yakez.7561:

PvP today is like fresh breath. This game needs even more modes. Stronghold seems to be really good further development of Fort Ashpenwood.

But 5 vs 5 is too small. More likely 6-8 players per team would be real fun. And I really want maps with different offensive NPC types, archers are dull.

Seems like we barely ran archers. For the most part we spammed DBs, swifted them to the doors and slammed the lord hard. I dont see much value in them.

TurtleofPower.5641:

Well.. feels dated and uninspired.

Also the UI is bad as usual. Anet needs to realize that GUI can’t be merely random graphics and icons… the readability and teaching factor should be built-in, which it isn’t here.

What’s hard about it? It even shows door/boss health. o.O (Actually curious here…)

So far we’ve ran Shoutbow, Power necro, Offensive guardian (defending/clearing lane), SF Ele and Hambow and played incredibly offensively and won 7/8 games now.

Kicast.1459:

1) Communication
I was not able to identify that our gates was down and got no warning until lord was attacked.
2) Teamplay close to 0
I have been spending 90% of the time alone. People are running to different objectives and are split in the map. Some fights occurs with several people but it is more a coincidence we get at the same place at the same time.
But this is maybe more due to the fact the map is new.
I am not enthusiastic up to now.

Play more. Ive seen a LOT of team play. For instance, I have someone clear guards while I (shout bow) escort minions with 100% swiftness, and others control mid and 1 defends. If the defender dies, I take his place until he comes back. Very flexible, and while we’re notALWAYS fighting TOGETHER until the last push/defend, we still are working together far more than conquest.

sendmark.4731:

Yeah have to say a bit disappointed, as my two biggest fears were present. One being that the mode is pretty snowball, in the games I played it was very difficult for the opposing team to come back as long as you had an active defence. Another problem is the amount of focus on killing mobs, with killing players being so far secondary. Technically you could win without killing a single player.

Other issue is Bodyguard too easy to nuke down when all he does is run, even with players covering. Maybe needs a bit more damage resistance or something until he actually reaches a gate. Although I suppose the flipside is that it almost forces the stacking of stealth on them.

If it helps to know, I won a game where we had no door broke and they were half broke with our 2nd, we defended when they busted in and still won on attrition.

Opposite for me. Most fun I’ve had PVPing since I’ve started. Would still love 2v2/3v3 but this is way better than conquest.

The game could probably use 5 minutes added to it, but so far I’ve won 3:0 all 3 being lord kills at about 3 minutes left.

Sorel.4870:

Gern.2978:

50k HP? I wanna know what voodoo magic these warriors are using to get that much HP, let alone do as much damage as you claim while having so much HP.

You may get there with a full Sentinel ascended set, max points in the Vitality trait line, vitality food, 5 guard stacks and near the NPC commander in a WvW Borderland (don’t know his name in english). Someone should try that.

Not likely to happen in pvp though.

AFAIK, 32.5k is the highest you can get in tPvP, but that would be pretty much nothing but a sponge with no sustain.

Edit: I lied, I can get a warrior to 33,852.

O.O seems grossly exaggerated. They might be a LITTLE strong, but not that bad…

Also, GS? I fully expected this to be about shoutbow…

Juba.8406:

Shout warrior is already strong and can manage conditions with ease, I don’t see the point in buffing it more.

Mending needs to be a Physical skill for the sake of viability and variety of builds.

Technically, this makes way more sense…

For a brawler though, it’s melee attacks seem to have a dire lack of soft cc…

Gw2 has too much mobility differences to work unfortunately. And if you prevent all bonus movement it’s just less fun. The game isn’t balanced for it unfortunately, not even close. That said Huttball was the best thing ever.

Still want 2v2 and 3v3.

The main problems I see are:

- They do a bit too much for the engineer that the engineer doesn’t have to help allow. Example being their long range. Minion masters who are also heavy AI must control the enemy to get that damage in. Both have AI that do too much of a % of the builds overall damage and don’t have enough utility. All 3 major pet utility builds tend to do best when spammed on CD for actives.

- They are overly resilient. Spirit weapons and Minions have long cast times and get destroyed by AOE while turrets are personal tanks. All should be effected by conditions, but each should have a trait that increases HP(or reduces damage taken to differentiate between them for flavor) and reduce condition TIMES by 50%. The reason being, conditions do a lot to objects that can’t remove it, but they still need to be able to deal damage. The best way to handle it is if all were affected but at a reduced duration to balance not having removal.

- Engineer’s CC as a whole is just too good. Rifle alone has an instant launch and immobilize which are already issues for the real meta build, Cele Rifle. Add to that, thumper and rocket, it becomes too much front loaded no-cast/no-telegraph CC. Turrets need a real tell and the special rocket needs more of a visual when flying.

- Thumper sometimes thumps twice, not sure if it’s intended or not, but it’s a real issue. It’s cool down is also pretty low for what it does (the active part). Also on a point it’s near per a cripple. Just reduce it to 1.5 sec per cripple application.

What needs to happen:
- Turrets need to take condition damage, but all pet builds need 50% condi duration baked into its main defensive trait.

- Traits should be redesigned to not buff turrets so much, and instead be designed to promote synergy for the energy for having turrets such as increased damage per turret and so on. (Boons do a decent job of this, but it could go further).

- Turrets need to not heal over time, instead, to promote thoughtful picking up and placement, change the healing per 5 seconds to “Salvage Parts:” reduce the cool down of picked up turrets by 50%. That way, watching turret health and picking them up to roam is a more viable option. This adds play to placement (being sure you can pick up a turret before it is killed) and reduces up time mid-fight, and helps roaming all in one.

- Give “active turrets” a better tell and more predictable reaction such as resetting the “swing timer” on rocket/thumper but always trigger 2 seconds after it lights up.

- Add a .5 sec tell to OCS

- Make the turret explosion knockdown trait (name escapes me) only on turret detonation, not death, but increase radius slightly.

That’s my feels.

Coloxeus.3480:

nice vid and u killed their lord in a minute time was awesome and i dunno why your video received 50% dislikes. but in my opinion your build won’t be effective in current meta build consist of d/d cele eles and shoutbow warr or cele meta engies with lots of condi removals. and the double caltrops (improvisation trait) is i think too OP

People hate conditions in general, so I wouldn’t doubt that there may be some initial bias involved.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

jportell.2197:

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

Not sure how you’d know if they were strong or not. All you do is kitten in chat all match, and spend the rest of the time in downed state. I’m sure anything seems OP to you. >_>

Coming from the guy that couldn’t fricking res his teammates mid when two of the opposite team were down and two of yours were down. FYI I wasn’t in that fight, and you still didn’t res anyone. So yeah you aren’t all hot kitten either kitten off.

It was outnumbered and I got knocked back by a LB ranger, then feared by their warrior who wasn’t dead, then their downed Necro, and we had, what, our 1 guy who was dead? I’m not super man, but at least I tried to do something rather than standing off to the side kittening and getting killed constantly.

You don’t see the irony that you seem to have a lot of insight on a fight you weren’t “in”?