Guild Wars 2

Wolfield.9812:

witcher.3197:

Yes, thief’s only meta in Dungeons, PvP and WvW roaming. Anet pls buff this poor profession.

Dungeons: Glass Damage, Dagger Dagger Rotation, Blast Spam

SPvP: Mobility, Glass Damage, Dagger Pistol Rotation (D/D got nerfed with 4 sec reveal).

WvW: Glass Damage, D/D or D/P, Mobility, Blast Spam,
P/D condition (which is too strong)

Would love to run a different build, just sometimes.

Doesn’t really seem to be the approach taken in this thread. Doesn’t seem about diversification so much as its victimization of thieves… Third glass builds are doing quite fine in every aspect with some build. They aren’t crippled just because they’ve taken nerfs. Diversity in thieves though, yeah it’s not great.

Mak.2657:

Warrs incoming! Non-teleport classes hate as expected, not much unbiased discussion.
Not intended, bug, glitch, exploit. the devs (), broken, needless, l2p.
“Spice must flow!”

And your “teleporters MUST have this or they’ll be doomed to be broken for lyfe!” is somehow less biased than concerns of legitimacy and design?

MaXi.3642:

I think that making a mist form not be able to stomp would just kill that skill… why would anyone pick it? ok you are invulnerable for 3 seconds while doing nothing except moving, dodging and changing attunements… not really worth it over the arcane shield except for stomps imo…

Could just as easily be re-designed if it wasn’t. I’m fairly certain the skill has a long cooldown for two reasons. First, obviously is the stomp factor. But also, it makes you faster and doesn’t have a block limit, so that you can flee enough to reorient. Arcane shield is essentially a more offensive block, where as mist is more defensive (aside from stomps, strictly speaking combat).

This is what I don’t understand. Why does projectile distance and so on néed to be brought up here? There is no reason to discuss every other issue in the game to agree that something completely irrelevant to those things needs fixed, or in this case, expressing happiness for changes to fix something. Long how does sail further than it should, but that has no point in a discussion about a separate issue being fixed. I shouldn’t need to go down my list of bugs and quirky things just to have an opinion on one thing.

Also, on the same token as “just because it wasn’t intended doesn’t make it bad design”, just because it went fixed promptly, doesn’t make it okay. Vertical rules existed for a very good reason from a design perspective. Vertical teleporting gives people free disengages against enemies (which are most) that don’t have them. The game is designed around people dying and travel times. Every “skillful juke” done by exploiting a virtical teleport that the enemy can’t do buys you about 18-20 seconds of respawn time and 15-25 seconds of traveling back, in which time you can be decapping or assisting someone. When only a handful of builds can do this, it shouldn’t be hard to see the impact it has.

That said, if survival IS the issue, like many claim, then let them take steps to fix that after they get rid of exploitable teleporting. They can’t fix a class as long as they have easy get out of jail cards. So in reality, supporting your exploits is only holding your classes back.

I’ll say it again, there’s nothing skillful about learning a few exploitable spots. More times than not it removes the need for skill to escape dangerous situations or abuse map travel for cap stealing, which acts as a crutch for players. No one learns to play the game better by having easy escapes. If anything the lose value of being pressured. If thieves end up having massive troubles after this, it really speaks to how much of a crutch an exploit actually was. Part of playing a berserker is knowing when to disengage, but if you can do that at any point with a simple instant teleport well out of reach of a majority of players, you’re not really learning that.

And having these out of jail free cards really has more of an impact on games than people think. A death is 5 points, and a while of being removed from the battle. These failsafe plays add or very quickly towards skewing results.

Check it and actually ready it and realize how much I defend. I just prefer a game to be balanced around less cheesy mechanics. I don’t find a lot OP, but I find things that could use some work to being less poorly designed. Of course… I don’t think you really care about that, you’re just trying to pick me apart because I’m for your cheesy mechanics going away, that, let me remind you, were never even intended in the first place. Cry at me all you want, I’m not calling the shots. I’m just agreeing with them.

Because it’s a lame exploitation of something clearly not intended? Should be pretty obvious.

Phaeton.9582:

BlackTruth.6813:

Phaeton.9582:

ronpierce.2760:

Phaeton.9582:

this has to be a joke

only new players would have a problem vertical with ports. no exceptions.

What? A lot of people have ‘a problem’ with people exploiting a map to have unintended mobility.

Zero good players.

Just trying to further lower the skill cieling for more money.

It’s kinda pathetic that people think Vertical Range is fair game. It’s just as pathetic when people think Guardian is anywhere near hard to play just because it has “instant cast skills” which you can “time.” Couple that with a vertical range teleport, it’s just flat out cancer. Guardian’s don’t need that crap. So do Ele’s. It’s for a greater cause even though Thief and Mesmer will get hit by it.

In-fact if “Guardians” are gonna get worked up over this change then that’s just fail.

i play every class, it doesn’t matter to me if they nerf any one in particular.

but every time they remove something that makes this game more interesting, in this case the use of blink cooldowns to disengage, existing pvpers should complain.

also whatever this guard rant is about, it’ll barely effect guard.

I don’t think its fair to consider exploits ‘interesting’. Secondly, they still can be disengages. You just don’t get to magically end up on a cliff free of harm, the interesting part is out pacing and out positioning your enemy, not taking advantage of poor pathing knowing your enemy can’t.

Lastly, I don’t really find it ‘interesting’ to have a certain few classes who can just disengage whenever they feel like it. People are supposed to die. People complain that bruiser builds don’t die faster enough and that its boring, there’s honestly nothing more eye-roll-provoking than getting a guy to 10% and then him teleporting on a cliff and being completely gone. It might be fun for the guy who just gets a free walk all the time, of course, but its really not interesting. If you want to play glass, take the risk involved. Cop-out mechanics are actually boring for everyone but the user.

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Aerveor.9617:

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Technically speaking, invuln stomps have the least counter play in team fights, and thats actually the issue. Who cares about 1v1. They’re guaranteed stomps on anything that isn’t a thief or ele for the most part (granted you just wait for the mist form and then it is if you’re smart…) The only real counter to it is an engineer with the ability to stealth the downed enemy, mass invis or a thief to stealth them. Otherwise its pretty much an easy stomp. No other stomp secure method even comes close. People complained about stability but hell it has more counter than this. And even more-so soon when you can actually eat through stability.

Elixir S, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Distortion (Shatter), the abilities already come with enough opportunity costs to work themselves out of the meta already, my man.

If you don’t want something to be stomped, hard revive it, revive utility it, or stealth it. But there’s no sense in nerfing Mist Form or Focus Elementalists. Priorities, invuln stomps are not one of them.

Not saying it is a priority. I don’t find it ‘game breaking’, certainly. I just don’t agree with it. I’d prefer them to have lower cooldowns but not be “easy stomps” (outside of a few less common cases as stated). I wouldn’t make a thread about it, but I tend to agree if one is made. Though, I don’t agree with some of the other things discussed.

Aerveor.9617:

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Technically speaking, invuln stomps have the least counter play in team fights, and thats actually the issue. Who cares about 1v1. They’re guaranteed stomps on anything that isn’t a thief or ele for the most part (granted you just wait for the mist form and then it is if you’re smart…) The only real counter to it is an engineer with the ability to stealth the downed enemy, mass invis or a thief to stealth them. Otherwise its pretty much an easy stomp. No other stomp secure method even comes close. People complained about stability but hell it has more counter than this. And even more-so soon when you can actually eat through stability.

Mak.2657:

Btw I’m wandering why ppl call v-porting “exploit” or “broken mechanic”

Because it is. Stand in a non-key spot and try to teleport to a higher ledge, it doesn’t work. Very specific spots have been mapped out and learned~ hence, they’re exploited areas. Vertical teleporting is generally not accepted in the game, but in certain maps you can find spots that allow it, and it gives an unintended advantage. They also can’t over buff classes that can exploit this bug because if they do without fixing v-teleporting they’d have very OP roamers that essentially couldn’t die if they played their cards right. It also ruins “average travel time” between nodes and creates huge swings from a class without teleports versus one with.

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

i’m just curious why thieves qqing the hardest…

Well we can’t rely much on stealth much in conquest,great mode btw devs, so I understand my fellow thieves since complete glass is effective only pve also it’s seem the Trickery line may be nerfed for power thieves which we chose for utility since against full glass is bad in pvp, thief also is not here to fight/1v1 but for mobility/decap/cap, great mode again btw devs, since the damage and team pressure is not worth it. I don’t play meta so I will see how this goes or could possibly affect me.

Hey you can rely on stealth in Strong hold though! :} Stealthing those door breakers!

lighter.2708:

tbh i think it affect less thief compare to mesmer.

thief has a tons of ways to avoid being focused other then abusing blink spots.
but it’s not the same for mesmer.

Like I said before. I MUCH prefer them balance the game forward without consideration of bugs and exploits. Technically speaking, balancing around bugs can often lead to them not buffing other weapons and defenses in general because clutch escapes on top of acceptable defenses would be incredibly OP for obvious reasons. HoT has a chance to fix a lot of past issues and I think that’s what they’re doing. Right now they’re laying down some pavement to move forward. One fix doesn’t mean nothing else can change with it.

Drennon.7190:

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Is there a mechanic in this game that you don’t think is OP? If you want to mash 1 and 2 to win, I’m sure there is an arcade in your nearest city, with a Streetfighter style game.

Excuse me? Did you even read what I said? I rarely ever say anything is OP. I said one thing is poor gaming because it has (next to) no real counter play. I prefer counter play to my immunity easy stomps. Sorry about that?

This would be a swift kick to the Jalis for PVP oriented Revenants, too. There’s really no good reason to block it. If someone has played enough to save up 80+ tomes, they should be able to piece stuff together. They’re not going to be much better at it than leveling one having all of their abilities trickle in in a meaningless fashion anyways. You can’t even make a proper build until 80 anyways, so 1-80 doesn’t do much to help veteran players.

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Stealth counters it.
Since invuln has a long cooldown, it is okay if it has a few counterplays.

I’m just going to have to disagree. I think it’s a poor mechanic. Its fine to disagree, I can’t really see myself changing my mind though. I’ve always felt it was a lame way to finish someone.

Trey Enma.7851:

Jaxom.7310:

i lik win enemy is down, n a mez creates portal, blinks away, drops the other end, ports back to u, starts finisher, ports away, an den ports back on u to finish u. thats fun

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there’s a delay on using portal repeatedly that prevents this from working anymore.

They can do it with blink, but I still don’t really think its that big of a deal. Its more utility intensive, harder to pull off and less safe than Mist Form/Elixir stomping (ugh).

Mak.2657:

Abusive or not it’s almost the only reliable way for zerk to survive in mass fight

Thieves have just as many if not more tools than most zerkers for survival or hit and run. Aside from guardians which have a totally separate defense (blocks), Rangers/Power necros/Some warriors etc pull it off with less going for them in a general sense.

Point being, this is an overly generalized statement, and completely untrue considering there aren’t even THAT many thieves who understand how to abuse it, and they’re still prefectly fine. Instead of porting up a cliff, tp to the base of the cliff and LOS a split second later, it won’t be that different. The major difference is the difference in mobility between nodes, and in that case, good riddance. Not being able to teleport up a cliff doesn’t make a teleport magically useless… To suggest it does is being a bit overly dramatic…

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Lordrosicky.5813:

ronpierce.2760:

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Well I was for this change even though its a pretty big nerf to necro and is to thief and mesmer too. As these are the non-celestial classes I thought they would accompany this nerf with a nerf to celestial amulet. Looks like they aren’t though. So the change probably sucks.

It nerfs Cele Ele’s lightning flash, right? Seems like a flat ‘honest’ adjustment across the board. The thing to remember is that this isn’t necessarily a ‘balance patch’. It’s a pavement patch, getting us used to mechanics as they will be in HoT. That is, it also has the stability changes.

Things might feel wonky for a little bit, but regardless of your class, Necro, thief, mesmer, it’s healthier for the game. Balance works best when its not balanced around bugs/exploits/unintended behaviors. And for good reason, v-porting wasn’t intended.

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Phaeton.9582:

this has to be a joke

only new players would have a problem vertical with ports. no exceptions.

What? A lot of people have ‘a problem’ with people exploiting a map to have unintended mobility.

Necromancers are weak because they’re the same zerk as anyone else without the mobility/blocks/blinds (general defenses) to support it. Even their comfortable burst requires life force, which often times you’ll start with 0 and if your early LF builders miss you can end up squished for nothing. Until they’re able to snowball a bit of Lifeforce they can be risky to have roaming around.

Until they gain some mobility and aren’t quite as team dependent they’ll probably never be super-meta heavy because anyone can zerk, but if you’re only ‘really good’ some of the time and you can’t move around very fast, you’re better replaced with a thief, mesmer, hell, even zerk ranger or some misc meta cele build.

Offensively, they’re okay, but they rely too much one everyone else to be effective, which in my opinion is a bit counter productive for a zerker who you’d often want to roam when there isn’t a major team fight happening. Just my feels on the situation.

Personally, I wouldn’t really pre-order HOT on a game site that sells power-leveling or gold. That’s just me. o.O

Nimrud.5642:

ronpierce.2760:

Nimrud.5642:

Supreme.3164:

And no you can’t see a thief coming at all, because they stealth a mile away and maintain the stealth indefinitely

That’s where you pretty much lost all your credibility.

Well, its actually not like they -can’t- do that. Most probably won’t, but they certainly can. If they feel it advantageous to stealth by a guy who’s helping mid, who’s also supposed to be watching far, sometimes going unnoticed can be a pretty big benefit, and if anyone can do it it’d be thieves.

No1 runs SA on competitive lvl for obvious reasons. If a non-SA thief does what the guy says above, he’ll have to use 2 gapclosers/teleports and burn a lot of ini… It is only worth it if you can 1-shot the opponent or bring him so low he cant recover (other zerkers). If you do this to a tanky build/class you’ll be out of ini and half of your abilities will be on CD right at the opening move. Supreme is either trolling or has no idea/ is outplayed too often by thieves. No wonder thieves are used only for 1+ing. If a thief goes 1v1 it has to be an other zerker (medi guard excluded ofc).

Otherwise its a NONO. In the last few tournaments I saw toker many times running away whenever a 1v1 situation was about to emerge. I’m not saying he didnt even have a chance but it would have taken too long even if he wins, so he left instead. Thats how sad thieves are these days. And now they are taking our ports… Oh, no! The ports!

High level comps don’t have people generally sitting on home doing nothing. Being able to get to the point unnoticed gives ample time to de-cap and MAYBE even cap it in time before they can get back to you. In that time you would have all of your init back up. Home watchers often support middle. This is one of the primary reasons high ranked players don’t like turret engineers, because they’re so anchored to a node.

Donari.5237:

Our prime info source right now is Gaile and today she’s traveling in England from one place to another so I imagine her posts will be more sporadic. Hopefully her cheery presence will resume on the morrow.

The morrow?

Nimrud.5642:

Supreme.3164:

And no you can’t see a thief coming at all, because they stealth a mile away and maintain the stealth indefinitely

That’s where you pretty much lost all your credibility.

Well, its actually not like they -can’t- do that. Most probably won’t, but they certainly can. If they feel it advantageous to stealth by a guy who’s helping mid, who’s also supposed to be watching far, sometimes going unnoticed can be a pretty big benefit, and if anyone can do it it’d be thieves.

This is a bit pathetic. Let’s not use bugs to defend bugs. All of them need to be fixed. Then you can balance around a non bugged/exploitable game. That’d be my preference.

TGI FRIDAY.6275:

What’s the status on GvG?

I feel like you’re completely ignoring Strongholds… You do realize SH is a new SPvP map right? And offers spvpers an entirely new way to play. They certainly didn’t leave us out in the cold…

I still think Spirit Watch is the best map in the game… :S

Sorel.4870:

ronpierce.2760:

You started off on the right track, then you lost me. It is an exploit. Its very easy to tell that it is. Is it very touchy as to where you can vertical teleport? Yes? Thats because its not intended. You can call it what you want, but its a bug and exploit no matter how you want to cut it, otherwise there’d be no issue v-teleporting anywhere at any point on ledges like that. If it requires sneaky positioning you can be pretty sure that it’s not intended.

What I am going to say will probably improve your teleport game by a great deal: you can teleport to any place you can walk to, within a reasonable walking distance. This distance is the one you would have to walk to get from the bottom of the stairs of the keep on Niflhel to the ledge above the capture point if you had to walk in front of Svanir/the Chieftain. It’s not an exploit, it’s designed to work that way. Now, some areas on certain ledges you can walk to don’t work, but that’s the bug imo.

That’s why I said it’s a pathing issue. Technically speaking, you’re still not supposed to be v-teleporting where the path to an area is significantly longer (IE graveyard, keep etc.) A little give is fine, but some are very much so exploitative, and I think people realize this.

Boggs.6482:

Lightning whip stow was an exploit. Did it ruin ele? No. Did people quit playing ele because of the nerf? No.

Thief teleports are not an exploit. The class is built and balanced around it. Even if the ports were unintentional, they’ve been part of the playstyle for 2+ years now. Let em get rid of the ports and we’ll see how viable anything but s/d thief is.

You started off on the right track, then you lost me. It is an exploit. Its very easy to tell that it is. Is it very touchy as to where you can vertical teleport? Yes? Thats because its not intended. You can call it what you want, but its a bug and exploit no matter how you want to cut it, otherwise there’d be no issue v-teleporting anywhere at any point on ledges like that. If it requires sneaky positioning you can be pretty sure that it’s not intended.

Secondly, you could exploit foefire for about 2 years or so. Time of bug has nothing to do with intent.

While I can agree with that, in a 1v1 clutch moment, it can be problematic and is certainly one of the best while Warrior and Necromancer sort of gets shorted of you ask me. But either way, I think Revenant will have one of the more practically best downed states. Their #1 causes “slow”. That’ll be pretty big not only for 1v1 but any scenario.

Aeroxe.8140:

Let’s wait until the patch actually hits first… It does sound bad for thieves, but the entirety of the nerfs might not even make it and it’s always possible that they might compensate for them in some other fashion.

Not only this, but even if we don’t see a lot of other immediate balance changes, this would, like the stability change, likely be paving the road for HoT changes. Basically anything that happens between now and then needs to be taken with a grain of salt. And by that I don’t mean be salty. (I kid)

I mean if anything, consider pistol 4 to be buffed with the new stability. Everything that changes will shake up the meta and by time HoT hits we won’t know what hit us, so it’s best to just relax, learn to play legitimately rather than fuss and complaining for a crutch to be handed back and if things end up weak, get to the root of the problem without relying on exploits.

Dondagora.9645:

If it does, that’s just ridiculous. Teleports are meant to give positioning advantages, and they’re incapable of breaking the map. Also, the special spots on Khylo and so on are very specific, the fact that mesmers and thieves learn these spots should be rewarded.

That’s just my opinion, though, but I do feel like teleports should either be improved to allow teleporting up uneven terrain and absolutely not nerfed.

I don’t understand how you can say that and not see exactly what’s wrong with it. They’re special spots. Their exploits. They shouldn’t be rewarded for learning them and abusing them, they should be banned. I figured out how to quickly get under foefire and if I swam under a node it would cap it, I couldn’t get hit and I could shoot up at them. Should I have done it and been rewarded since, hey, I figured it out, so it must be legit. It’s clearly an unintended side effect of pathing that has purposefully been blocked outside of some special anchors that people abuse.

This isn’t about balance. It’s about the fact that these maps are designed with “safe nuke spot” ledges and average travel times between nodes, and in many cases these totally wreck those aspects. If you REALLY feel like thief is somehow underpowered~ feel free to say that, and good luck asking for buffed mobility to compensate for your exploits being nerfed~ but lets take this for what it obviously is, an unintended issue that people abused and it just wasn’t fixed timely. It’s not like ANet are super fast about major changes anyways, so it’s not like it’s actually saying much.

In fact, I could still do that foefire glitch for about 1.5 years or more after launch. Still not intended.

Ravenmoon.5318:

And what if I’m trying to shadow step to a ranger on a higher ground in say legacy of foefire, that’s just sniping the s**** out of people? Would it be like the FoH keep camp spot? If so that would be quite lame. Having to go through all that distance just to catch a power camper …

Idk if that is bad news for thieves because I don’t generally play with those in mind with very few exceptions, I can’t be bothered to memorize all those glitchy spots but, having target and being unable to teleport to it has always felt unnatural to me. Even steal doesn’t get me on top of FoH keep spot. Maybe the maps are intended to be this way, to reward camp spots and whatnot.

So I’m just curious if it blocks shadow steps on a target as well.

Welcome to every other build. It was unusual for teleports to behave that way. The things you describe as “crudy” for having to take the long way to reach snipe spots are what normal people have to deal with. That’s part of how the map works.

It should be obvious standing in a certain spot and teleporting to another very specific spot on a ledge was not intended.

Personally I prefer this middle-ground approach. I’d rather everyone not die in 1-2 second bursts, able to watch a point or go offense a bit depending on the situation.

Shiyo.3578:

Problem isn’t the amulet, it’s the classes(eng and ele) and the fact thief makes all zerker builds except guardian nearly unviable.

I wish people understood this. If it was the amulet you’d see Necromancers and stuff use it to much greater success. There was some merit to the might nerf. Might has been OTT in PVE for a long time, and celestial builds that did particularly well (for the most part) were ones who could stack really high might so that they had unusual offense for a hybrid build. Not only for power or conditions but both. That said, it wasn’t enough. Things need to be looked at in the core of Engi/Ele, and maybe a little bit warrior to fix the power of celestial builds.

Vargamonth.2047:

Not working under NDA really baffles me. If closed betas are so close and testers will be able to freely provide us any sort of information, isn’t it like we should already had a much deeper insight on most of the things to come?

I also hope that some information that’s not relevant for testing, like new collections or legendary recipes that could be using already existing items, is properly hidden on the beta client.

Chances are beta testers will be a build or two behind the GM builds. That’s generally how it works. So being in closed beta doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll have access or even see things they haven’t released.

Drennon.7190:

xDudisx.5914:

If they are really fixing those bugs this is a great change. Thieves and mesmer will have normal mobility like other classes that cannot take advantage of those bugged spots.

So what you’re saying is, thief and mesmer should lose their mobility. That way they have just as much mobility as classes who out perform thief/mesmer in many other aspects. Seems legit! You must balance for Anet

They still technically have that mobility, they just can’t cheese with it. Fixing broken things are a good step to seeing a classes real weak spots so they can be fixed properly. (Whether they DO it or not is out of my hands, but the above still stands.)

Exodus.6501:

thief is gonna be so boring >.<

Fake, his pc was already unplugged. AKA, thieves are just pretending to rage because they know they’re still king. You sly, sly dogs…

I hope I get in. I want to test Revenant and provide feedback for it. I hope to main it in HoT for PVP so I want time to know it inside and out and get it to ship shape.

Hambow/Shoutbow warriors or D/D ele sound like what you want. Melee, non-squishy bruiser types. Have a look around here for common viable builds. Good luck!

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki (Ranked Arena builds)

Yasha.5963:

@Simon: Any turret engi with half a brain and decent build will not melt in seconds against conditions, and those conditions will be useless against the turrets.

There’s only so much a brain can stop conditions with a single condi clear every 20 seconds, and 2 dodges and no weapon swap. It really comes down to determining if the conditions user “has a brain”. It might not be as fast as killing someone with 15k hp, but they’re not doing a whole lot of resisting.

Just do a lot of PvP. Get 79 tomes and be 80 on day 1.

Can’t be any worse than the kitten Candy Cane x.x

Shanks.2907:

ronpierce.2760:

Coulter.2315:

I’m really surprised people are trying to argue against this (one on semantics of all things)… It clearly does 1900+ and should only do 1500, needs fixed (yes we’re all aware that other projectiles benefit from it too but none of them get an extra 400+ hence why its the most commonly noticed and felt).

Note no one else has requested other projectiles be exempt from whatever change is required tooo.

Bran is an avid Ranger, or so his post history would suggest. Not that surprising.

Doesn’t make his point wrong that a fix across all professions is more appropriate than simply calling out rangers though.

Less ad hominem more discussion please.

I agreed it needs to be fixed across the board. But lets not pretend there isn’t a significant difference between the potency of it from Rangers and every other smaller offender. There is a HUGE difference, hence why they get called out for it. In fact, it was hardly noticed at all (due to it being a smaller amount) prior to Longbow’s usage and changes. The Longbow range has much more impact than a smaller increase on shorter ranged weapons. Such as the fact that the Ranger can attack people from distances unreachable by anyone else. 1000 range on a 900 range weapon for example means very little compared to 450 added to an already high-max ranged weapon, on a high burst weapon no less.

But it doesn’t matter. No one is disagreeing it shouldn’t be fixed across the board, but that Ranger is the biggest offender. Being upset that it calls out the ranger has little to no value beyond trying to defend Rangers. I do my fair share of defending rangers mechanically, but I won’t defend obvious bugs, regardless of if other classes see similar bugs (which are also less potent). I’m not here to pick favorites, I said fix it all, but undoubtedly, Power Ranger has the most benefit from it.

That said, I don’t want power to get nerfed. That’s why fixing bugs means so much to me. Rather than nerfing LB ranger (which is what a lot of people actually do want), I’d rather it just be fixed and left alone otherwise. I’m confident if people weren’t sniping from close to 2x “long” range, people wouldn’t have such an issue with rangers.

Coulter.2315:

I’m really surprised people are trying to argue against this (one on semantics of all things)… It clearly does 1900+ and should only do 1500, needs fixed (yes we’re all aware that other projectiles benefit from it too but none of them get an extra 400+ hence why its the most commonly noticed and felt).

Note no one else has requested other projectiles be exempt from whatever change is required tooo.

Bran is an avid Ranger, or so his post history would suggest. Not that surprising.

arron.7348:

ronpierce.2760:

LB is game changing.

2/10

Don’t be immature. I’m not saying Rangers are OP, but an added 450 range to the longest range already, yes, it changes the flow of a fight, especially when it comes to initiation from a distance.

Mortifer.2946:

lol to all of you – maybe the specialization will not be unlocked through masteries but it is still a HoT unlock through doing some content as when Colin says that “you can become a druid” it means you actually have to do something for it…

and by mine “I was right” i meant you won’t lose any of your vanilla skills.

/peace

That’s not really how he worded it. He said “You won’t lose anything” then quickly followed that with “because out of combat you can swap right back to a ranger.” That leaves me believing you will lose some base abilities, you just don’t permanantly lose any by changing to a specialization.

I don’t doubt they’re good at 1v1, that’s why I said 1v1 that weakness is less prevenent. They’re what many would call a bruiser build. These builds are very often great for 1v1 (cele ele, cele war, Engi, turret engi). But 1v1 potency is not a reason to nerf something and say it doesn’t have a weakness. In a team fight, power pressure can certainly stack against shoutbows.

That said, they like many Cele build may be slightly too potent, but not enough to say they’re OP or need some “serious looking at”.