Guild Wars 2

Well like I said, it’s far more noticeable (and extreme as far as distance added) on Longbow. That’s why it get so much attention. No one else can match that reach, including Grenades that reach 1500, so it holds a specific value above the rest which might have smaller marginal reach increases. I agree, all should be fixed, but don’t pretend the targeted approach isn’t justified, Rangers with LB do get the largest boost from this issue.

Bran.7425:

You both do realize that every projectile has similar properties and that complain would have to be applied across the board.

So fix them all. LB is by far the most game changing.

MrKrataus.6420:

ronpierce.2760:

MrKrataus.6420:

Sube Dai.8496:

It is bad at 1v1 against zerk builds because the damage is weak.

I’d bring a lb ranger if the other team has shotbow, problem solved.

thief can’t, mesmer aswell, and I tested with lb ranger aswell, shoutwar got 2much tool to kill them easly while putting weakness and being tanky as sheet.

I hate to break it to you, but personal “testing” has nothing to do with viability of zerker builds against Shoutbow warriors…

So im wondering where this “zerk beat shoutbow” came from if its not personal test? Since every decent players with a bit of knowledge know that’s wrong? Im also wondering if you ever played agains’t a good shoutbow.

General consensus. People who play builds tend to be a lot more honest about what kills them more frequently than others than someone contesting a proposal. Having played a bit of shoutbow (certainly not as a main, though) I agree power and zerker is far more punishing than conditions, easily. And in a team fight it’s easier to take advantage of that physical weakness. 1v1 it’s still there but won’t be a prominent. Skill levels still matter too, but that’s how concensus works. “Generally”, power will be your counter to shout heals. Of course they will be tanky, that’s what they’re built for, and if you’re not very good at surviving as glass in a general sense (compared to their ability to land damage) you will still likely lose. Counters arent foolproof.

Yeah, I can agree with this. The arrow sailing needs fixed which is around 1950. It’s not really fair to other ranged build even when one gets close to a 50% increase over other ranged builds (usually 1200) entirely due to projectile sailing as a bug.

No nerfs, just fixes /agree.

In its current state, of course there is a LOT of work to be done, but they come off as incredibly weak. Hammer’s damage is terrible, mallyx seems clunky and unreliable, jallis is sort of “meh” (hammers do poor damage, taunt has a high cost for a so-so CC that even slows the enemy removing some of the comboing potential of confusion), and so on. Frankly, I’m not impressed by hammer. Mace/Axe looks fun, but I have a feeling it’ll only get solid play if it’s like sword for warriors and scales well with both power AND condition damage, so that it can be ran as a Celestial or Carrion build. Beyond that, their combat potency seems rather low.

They’re still cool though, and I’d love to play one. I just hope they don’t end up that bad once some more polish hits them and they get their other 2 trees.

MrKrataus.6420:

Sube Dai.8496:

It is bad at 1v1 against zerk builds because the damage is weak.

I’d bring a lb ranger if the other team has shotbow, problem solved.

thief can’t, mesmer aswell, and I tested with lb ranger aswell, shoutwar got 2much tool to kill them easly while putting weakness and being tanky as sheet.

I hate to break it to you, but personal “testing” has nothing to do with viability of zerker builds against Shoutbow warriors…

Look at all of the traits in this game. A HUGE chunk are passive bonuses. Many skills are long cooldowns. What you end up realizing is, based on complaints, any build that is effective is brain dead. (Mostly) just bad builds require a high amount of skill. Reason being? One doesn’t struggle as much as the other naturally. Buff the seemingly skillful build to just being decent? Suddenly its no-brain face roll, an example being LB ranger.

Moral of the story; the game isn’t hard, stop attacking every build just because its effective. Stop saying everything is brain dead because it’s a brain dead argument.

I’m certain they did this because of the removal of underwater combat in sPvP.

That’s kind of it, yeah. You’re more likely to see complains about things that have a direct correlation to their health depleting, such as insane burst, too many condi stacks or AI. Historically speaking, those have almost always been the hot topics. More times than not people don’t care about balance or whats actually effective, they just don’t like dying, and if they can point the finger, they will. :P

Mayama.1854:

When GW2 launched i had zero lag issues in PvP. Nowadays I lag out every third game. Nothing has changed at my side.

Its the wings.

Chill is great. And annoying to have on you. the bigger problem with either is they’re not as easy to stack constantly without giving up a lot in the process. sometimes its just not worth being OVERLY concerned with them, but they’re still great conditions.

Need white too…

I love queuing with Five Gauge, Nightmare, Grouch, and Rupee (or some other slight difference) on my Turret engineer. The battle always goes from “Great, a premade Abjurd and Devs, l2ranked kitten ” to “omfg carried by Turrets…” XD

Snorcha.7586:

turrets should have their regen cut in half and despawn if engineer goes +1200 range of them.

More like (of course, just my opinion):
- Thumper needs to change to add 1 stability for 4 seconds every 10 seconds instead of protection so that they’re a bit squishier (of course post-stability change).
- Turret HP needs to increase about 20% but:
– Conditions affect them, but at 50% reduced duration added to plated turrets.
– Removed Regen (see next point).
- Remove the 5%/3 sec healing trait. Replace with: Reduce the starting cooldown of non-healing turrets by the percentage of remaining health when picked up. This way turrets can roam better, turrets have more counter play and people have to manually manage them better. That may even include picking them up before an anticipated assault on one. That said, if they’re exploded or killed, full recharge.
- Make the Rifled Turret Barrel trait range baseline, and rework the trait, effectively lowering Turret damage as they no longer gain 15% damage. Instead, rework it to “Turret Modded Weapons: Weapon attacks also let out a burst of 100 damage per turret ability slotted.” (Wording might need cleaning up) But essentially, it shifts more damage to the engineer and even give incentive to use more power/crit/ferocity over strictly running Sentinel, if the scaling is appropriate.

These are the general rough steps I’d take to correcting it. Feel free to weigh in.

darres.8203:

Eurantien.4632:

No. You have to out range it (2000+).

so running is the only thing i can do?

putting distance between a thief and a ranger is a horrible idea though…sometimes u can’t even get away

You can dodge it in the same way the ranger can dodge a steal. Purely random. If its a particular issue for you and you’re having a hard time, it doesn’t hurt to try using a smoke field to try to block some of that damage. Really depends on what your set up is.

Lifestealer.4910:

Actually I probably understand the build more than you do since I play an engineer mostly and have tried the turret build for myself. It is every bit as easy and brainless as I say it is.

I play Turret engi with Five Gauge and several other well known players (even a few times with Grouch/Nightmare). I know the build. I haven’t just “tried it”, I’ve played it in various skill levels. I’ve offered ways to actually fix turrets. But I’m just trying to stop the ridiculous “kill it with fire” approach, because I’m sick of seeing builds being trashed over massive tear waves.

That proves my point that you don’t understand the build at all.

Here’s a good concept for nautical themed legs.

Lifestealer.4910:

I like how people keep trying to bring up “counters” in this thread when others just do not want this build to exist. Look, even if I was most pro player in the world and can beat every turret engineer 100% of the time, this build should still be gutted. It has no business in a pvp environment, a pure auto pilot build that can be run by a bot program and still be effective.

Also alot of “counters” people list are quite laughable even, ranging turrets down with lb as a warrior?.. because those turrets can’t hit you right?.. or the engineer can’t hit you still right?.. and how long will that take?.. the match would be over by the time you destroy all the turrets with your pitiful longbow damage.

First, that’s not even close to how a Hambow kills Turreteers. Secondly, this is a perception issue. You don’t like the AI (semi controlled even), tower defense, “trapping” style of gameplay.

Well, I don’t like instant teleports, high unrealistic mobility, insane burst from auto attacks (via sigils), multiple evade frames built into attacks or stealth. But at least I’m realistic enough to not go around saying “this stuff doesn’t deserve to exist ever” because lets face it. If we ‘gutted’ everything that someone could build a strong argument over for why it shouldn’t belong in PVP there’d be one build and one class.

People overstate the damage and CC factors of Turrets. For example, engineer rifle does 40% of the engineers total damage for example, not many realize this. Or that every CC the turreteer has is triggered, none are passive, but people still think or say it they have too much passive CC. The only truly “passive” cc is if you’re standing DIRECTLY on a turret you kill. But according to everyone, they’re impossible to kill, so you tell me…

I have never lost one, close though (430v500) which was embarrassing enough. But I did win a 4v5 as the 4 in Foefire, 500-346 due to a boss nab.

Two of the 3 are actually not that tough. People pretend they are all as tough as the thumper but that’s incredibly not true. Additionally, thumper is tanky on purpose. It’s a middle-fight turret. It’s tough because it’s → supposed to be able to last in the ticket <-. Technically speaking, it’s working as intended. The rifle and rocket turrets are significantly weaker.

tenklo.6104:

Actually turret engi is good I just think the net turret in the supply drop need to be change out to thumper turret or somethin…hence it why most of us are eating that dmg

And since it couldn’t be overcharged itd just be a cripple instead of immob and no added CC. I think that’s fair.

Sagat.3285:

Lock the heal and elite,make 5 utilities per legend. Surprised many are asking a system similar to what we have now which is a failed balance, Revenant is the best designed class so far.

This is actually what I want. Just a bit of utility choice between each legend. I don’t want to feel forced to take (possibly) several utilities I don’t want just because I feel a certain utility or aspect of a certain legend is a keystone to a build.

DeathPanel.8362:

Your conclusion is not very sound considering all the information is not even out yet for the Revenant class and you haven’t even played it.

It’s a conclusion based on an “as-is” basis. Right now there is not flexibility between utilities. It’s a consideration though. That’s why it’s important to bring these issues up BEFORE its finalized. It doesn’t take deep understanding or playing to realize locked bars are locked bars, and thus minimal customization. We know what they said it’s like ‘for now’, and we want to encourage that they allow us to have some flexibility before it is too late, they launch and we end up having to just deal with it for a year or longer until they do a rare ability adding patch.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.

inexperienced players who have little pvp experience in any mmo flinging their glass cannon body’s at me isn’t op. I can’t count the number of zerkers who show up and get smashed because they have 0 defense or utility.

In that case not only am i outbuilding, i am outexperiencing them.

Playing the afk engineer doesn’t require much experience at all, and gives a false skill boost like others have said.

Downplaying turret engineer’s involvement in their victories and general lack of knowledge of the build AND how to handle them, while they also have a bit of a countering edge is the exact same thing you’re describing.

Exactly. I think people are confusing some things here… We’re not talking about in-combat flexibility. They have that, no problem. We’re talking about build creation and customization. Their current set up is similar to saying if you take a trap on a ranger you must take all traps. Or survival skills you must take all survival skills (and even then, with no variation, so one of them would be cut). So on and so forth for the other classes. Necromancers typically run a signet, a spectral skill, sometimes two, or a well/corruption spell. Most well runners don’t run healing well, they take Consume Conditions. Essentially they have no say in their skills.

This matters because if you’re building for a certain aspect, and you have one utility or part of the legend that fits that role you run the risk of being forced to take some utilities that are irrelevant. You coul argue this is similar to weapons for other classes, but the catch is they have this with both weapons and utilities. Their building flexibility is pretty dry. To some that doesn’t matter, but for people who like to theory craft, that’s most of the fun sucked out right there, not being able to see how your other skills can synergize together. Instead, you’re essentially forced to 3 utilities that are what they want you to take. It’s not very interesting if you ask me.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

ronpierce.2760:

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.

Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.

That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.

You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.

He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.

Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.

You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.

Or Celestial, which is very commonly used right now and does just fine at melting those engies.

Really, just celestial longbow is all you need as a Warrior, and funnily enough, that’s the meta build.

Is it? everything i read stated it was on soldiers for “tanky bruiser” Why is celestial better? It feels like the stats would be split too much to really be more beneficial.

If it really makes that much of a difference, im using soldiers now, as it allows me to 1v1, and often 1v2 or sometimes 1v3 with rampage long enough for my team to come assist and defend a point.

If its that big of a change, ill give it a try tonight and focus on specifically turret eng and report back

The meta "build? atm for Warrior is Shoutbow which uses Sword (which benefits from all stats quite well) and so does longbow. Shouts scale well with healing too. Hambow is generally ran with Soldiers, S/Wh+Longbow shout heals run celestial though.

You can kill a turret engineer with 2 people, which is pretty standard to use 2 players to take a node, that’s not unique to turret engineers. Secondly, for whatever reason you decided to take the critical route and send 3 people, you some how ended up 2v5 on the rest of the board? They have 6 players? Exaggerations get us no where.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Shiyo.3578:

Except in this case the person with scissors is a robot with zero human interaction required.

If there’s no human, there is no robot. Remove the human, you’ve removed the robot.

If you are losing to unattended turrets, it really is a L2P problem.

Not to mention that’s completely false. An engineer spamming rifle 1 and 3 on cooldown is equal to something like 35-40% of the damage done. That’s a pretty big chunk. Over half their CC is also from rifle 2/4 and overcharge blasting their heal. Just sort of goes to show how little people actually know about what’s going on.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.

I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.

Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.

The problem is that, you have that ability built in.

Not all professions get to do that.

I’m a warrior, and there’s no way im going to range down a turret eng. I must then use multiple forces just to deal with 1 guy who can effectively 1v2 easily.

What if by odd chance we end up with no range?

I’m all akin for losing, getting stomped, or outplayed.

But there needs to be SOME counterplay for melee classes too.

It’s not about that, its about a level playing field, and completely blocking 1 fighting type is too much. There’s melle, and there’s ranged. Ruling out 50% of builds ineffective is broken.

And saying “overpower” isn’t a solution either.

Hambow happens to be one of the better counters to Turrets… Rock paper scissors man. Thats sort of how it goes in build wars. There’s not a build out there that doesn’t at least struggle with some other build set up.

dietzero.3514:

They kill fun.

Highly subjective.

I’ve hard many “fun easy free kills”. Some people enjoy turrets. So that’s pretty subjective.

silvermember.8941:

What makes the new class any special? It will work exactly like it does for the elementalist does.

/thread

I explained the difference. Legend swapping is only between 2, no decision making needed. That said, it would just be convenient (see QOL) to have it function on both the F1 and weapon swap buttons.

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Yes but that’s not really what you said. But also, that still holds true. In many cases they have a lot of counters. They just so happen to do well against A few standard melee roamers, especially things like thieves who are supposed to be able to kill people and decap. Seems like a good check if you ask me. Because thinks like mesmers, Rangers, hambow, some medi guards and the like actually do quite well against them. They’re not OP, they have huge downfalls and little flexibility.

More times than not what people are really upset about is the ease of play. People get enraged when an AI unit kills them. I think that’s the bigger issue. They have plenty of weaknesses and downfalls and work just like any other rock paper scissor. Scissor is complaining about rock being OP and everyone is complaining that a certain rock is too easy to throw.

Opening up myself to the L2P backlash, but…

So I play a lot of different professions and playstyles. Jumping between is what makes me stay interested. I’ve played with and vs. every current meta build that I know of (and even more janky builds). The only ones that genuinely seem too strong in comparison (as far as ease to counter or even having a hard counter) are Turret Engie far in first, but followed by Shatter Mesmer. With Mesmer it’s easy to spot it’s counter, spamable AoE and condition cleanse (Guardian with a staff is a great example). Turret Engie is a lot harder to counter. The only really consistent argument is to kite or out range him. Unfortunately when you are doing that (which isn’t even that easy to begin with) you aren’t gaining points while he is. And they are very hard to kill even then.

Even bad Engies can only be like, a level 7 of 10, because the turrets are the problem.

Here’s the thing I think people tend to forget. Turrets are bruisers I’d say similarly to how Hambow is. they do decent (Not high, the actual math in their damage is not as high as people will lead you to believe) but they’re also decently resilient with a major weakness to ranged attacks and conditions. MANY times fighting these builds, you can’t expect to just decap or take the cap without them dying. It works similarly to say a guardian standing on middle or home, you’re not getting points and they are while they’re alive, so use that knowledge as an advantage. Relax and just know you’re not taking it while he’s alive anyways so give yourself that freedom to kill him as best you can at ranged. Rangers do this best, but many builds can do it. Once he’s dead then take the cap. Or 1v2 him, which is a common strategy to take far, and he’ll surely die faster than many other bruiser/bunker builds because they really don’t have many defensive maneuvers. Their main defenses are healing turret overcharge/blast, protection and CC. Their CC at range is abyssmal, this is the main reason melee without stability has a harder time with them. Thumper can be problematic for squishy melee like thieves. 2-3 chained CCs and they’re basically dead, its a simple counter though.

Like I said. Even “L2P” issues aside, most people get miffed about the passiveness of damage and AI in general, as well as ease of play more than them being particularly “OP”. That’s why most conversations skip “nerf turrets” to “remove turrets from PVP entirely”. Is sort of a shame though because builds and characters exist many games and aren’t an issue. This is the first game I’ve seen the community have such a huge problem with AI.

Sorel.4870:

ronpierce.2760:

Or, like I said, and what makes more sense overall, is have both swap legend and weapon swap prefer bundle dropping over legend swapping, much like current classes that will drop a bundle before changing their weapons.

And I think I understood you, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong: you would like to have the “swap weapon/drop bundle” button at the bottom left of the UI AND the bound key changing your current legend, right? The player wielding a bundle would drop it by pressing this button/key, then could use it again to change his current legend, still right?

The question is: would it make sense in a gameplay point of view? You see, currently, this key is linked to changing your weapon skills. Either to swap weapons, or to drop a bundle/kit. In both cases, you’re changing the object you’re wielding. I therefore think it would make no sense to change your legend with this button/key. You’re still wielding the same object, it would not be coherent with the rest of the game.

It’d make sense to me. For many I’d assume, changing your legend, though different physical buttons, will be the same principle as changing a weapon, since it’s between two and not an unknown number (kits) or 4 (attunements) it could very well use both f1 and weapon swap. Gameplay wise, it makes total sense and gives more freedom to how you wish to play. I personally would rather continue to “swap” using my normal button. And in the very rare occurrence that I want to change but not drop a bundle, I just press f1, any other time it’d act just like any other weapon swap. Drop a bundle first, then change weapons.

The thing is, without a bundle, that button doesn’t do anything anyways, so there’s no sense not to just let us use either, especially when the rule with bundles is so simple, just to have the weapon swap drop the bundle first just like it does with any other class.

Geikamir.6329:

ronpierce.2760:

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

The entire purpose of Conquest is holding points. So they happen to be very good at the most important thing.

Yes but that’s not really what you said. But also, that still holds true. In many cases they have a lot of counters. They just so happen to do well against A few standard melee roamers, especially things like thieves who are supposed to be able to kill people and decap. Seems like a good check if you ask me. Because thinks like mesmers, Rangers, hambow, some medi guards and the like actually do quite well against them. They’re not OP, they have huge downfalls and little flexibility.

More times than not what people are really upset about is the ease of play. People get enraged when an AI unit kills them. I think that’s the bigger issue. They have plenty of weaknesses and downfalls and work just like any other rock paper scissor. Scissor is complaining about rock being OP and everyone is complaining that a certain rock is too easy to throw.

Geikamir.6329:

Turrets are actually surprisingly hard to destroy even when the engie isn’t there. It really makes no sense. And when the engie is there, it’s very hard to do anything about him. I understand that the automatic response is going to be L2P, but really. If someone was to objectively make a list (no one here for sure) about what builds beat other builds, things that turret engies are good against and what they are bad against would likely be the most skewed list.

Turret engies are actually bad against a LOT of builds because how much their immobility can be exploited. They’re just good at holding a point, especially if the point has a decent amount of LOS and high ledges to place turrets.

Sorel.4870:

Wolfey.3407:

Shockwave.1230:

Since Revenant doesn’t swap weapons and can only have 2 legends, instead of having to change my keybinds can there be an option to toggle the Weapon Swap keybind to swap legends?

Would save some time when swapping between professions <3

I’m not certain on how things are going to be done, but i’d imagine that it would be similar to Elementalist or Engineer.

Well engineer has two distinct ways to drop a kit: pressing the kit key or pressing “drop bundle”. The thing is, for engineer it makes more sense, since you’re really dropping a bundle, in the case of a kit. Swapping legends does not change your weapon skills, hence it can’t be considered a bundle, and shall not be bounded to the “weapon swap” key. QED.

Or, like I said, and what makes more sense overall, is have both swap legend and weapon swap prefer bundle dropping over legend swapping, much like current classes that will drop a bundle before changing their weapons.

I’m hoping it and Drop the Hammer (name and effect) are both place holders. They are rather generic and leave much to be desired. I think they need to add more mist feeling to the attacks and in general just have a better visual execution. Just my ¢2

Exedore.6320:

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap key is used to drop bundles (e.g. Fiery Greatsword) and Revenants will most likely be able to swap legends while holding a bundle.

Could still be an option. Mechanics would be simple. Weapon swap (‘) would just prefer to drop a bundle over swapping, where as F1 would only change legend. There’s no issue with setting a priority to dropping a bundle over swapping a weapon, so I don’t see why this would create any unusual problems.

@Nashur It has less customization, not buttons to press. This class (in its current iteration*) will have by far the least amount of flexibility in building. Not only does it have 1 weapon at a time, it’s legends have pre-determined utilities and so on. Betond our legends we have no control over our utilities. So a Revenant might sit on 2-3 total utility slots that they feel are mostly useless to them because they have no flexibility to chose otherwise.

Consider any other class. Many times classes will take a mix of utility types. Mesmer will mix glamour skills with clone abilities. Or on a more extreme level, an engineer has several tool kits they can use with their gadgets and elixirs and they’re interchangeable and make totally unique builds.

Revenant, if you see his weapon and stance you know every ability he has without question. He may very well even have several useless ones to his build because hes completely locked into them. That’s the lack of customization.

Chances are weapons will be “best” for certain legends, like the condition-based mace/axe for Mallyx, so even our weapon-to-legend choices are limited, let alone being locked into non-interchangeable utilities.

They will just end up very predictable and static which takes out 90% of the fun in making an awesome build. There’s little trial in error with set ups because there isn’t much choice involved.

I think what he’s saying is instead of it being the Class 1 ability (F1) allow it to also function with the weapon swap key (’) or whatever default is.

I think that’d be nice if both were usable so no extra configuration needs to happen, since otherwise one will just be unused anyways, might as well enable both to function the swap mechanic.

Kuzuryu.7359:

ronpierce.2760:

Why don’t you just add your comment to one of the other 500 existing turret threads? Your addition isn’t so important that it dictates another thread. We get people don’t like turrets, but we don’t need everyone’s individual thoughts, that all tend to be the exact “they shouldn’t even exist” notion, on separate note cards.

because 500 complaints are not enough?

Do you think 500 threads on a single build that some people are just miffed over how “easy” it is to play is going to change their production schedule, especially when their resources are mostly focused on an expansion???

Why don’t you just add your comment to one of the other 500 existing turret threads? Your addition isn’t so important that it dictates another thread. We get people don’t like turrets, but we don’t need everyone’s individual thoughts, that all tend to be the exact “they shouldn’t even exist” notion, on separate note cards.

Technically, Necromancer isn’t slow. 1-1.25 seconds isnt fast for an ability. It gives reasonable reaction time. Everyone else (for the most part) are too kittening fast. Its all twitch play and not very reasonable to counter and basically just ups the amount of luck instead of skill in the game. Necromancers and many of the warrior skill sets are actually where things should move to.

Thieves and fresh air eles are just stupid in the amount of “instant” presses they have access to. Just my two cents.

I hope they make thieves useless. Can teleport around, has too many easy no-brain evade frames. Too much burst and blind. I don’t really want to learn to fight them, I hope they just make them useless. Auto attacks proccing two dps sigils causing brainless burst? How can anyone think this is even okay?
/s

Real point being. There’s so much passive stuff people don’t realize is passive, and instant abilities that in reality don’t take a lot of thinking to actually do. I’m not saying thief is particularly easy, but a lot of their basic mechanics are and are just as ‘cheesy’ if you really consider how much they get that is 100% instant and procs of high damage without much consideration.

Yeah, as said, this is just for new players’ first characters. It’s supposed to make sure they learn a bit first. But that said, the first 22 levels can be, quite honestly, the most boring levels. Introducing a pure PVPer this was is a really bad decision. I almost lost a recruit because of it once. I basically had to level his character for him because the PVE side was just not fun to him at all and being new it wasn’t very fast either.

Chances are if someone came to strictly PVP, they’re not going to learn anything by level 22, not enough to be competitive, more than likely they’ll look for guides or builds instead. Plus there is that short PVP tutorial, and honestly, GW2 could use a re-playable PVP training scenario that goes through each of the maps and explains the core concepts and teaches you to rotate. That way people can learn in a judgement-free environment and in the mean time learn their abilities. Hell maybe even have some player submitted tutorials directly accessible from the game via a UI element.

Either way, though. Not enough is learned and it’s far too different of a game 1-22 and all it really does is hurt new players and can deter them from caring. It just simply needs removed because I feel it does more harm than good at this point.

mugen.4763:

erg I just hate threads that start with “Am I the only one…”.

Because I ready know that… WHEEEEN YOU CALL ME BABY. I KNOW IM NOT THE ONLY ONE….

OT: I’m sure several will come back. But why would you start your post like this, so negative and accusational? Read what you wrote, it doesn’t set a good stage.

I came back already in anticipation for it though. I have high hopes for Revenant.

Here you go fellers. Proof and whatnot about the putrid explosion delay. You never see it apply weakness because almost never does someone sit in the field a full 3 seconds to be in there at that exact point that it explodes. I’ve tested it before. If you’re moving toward the pet and it is exploded, a single evade roll or walking through at a constant non-slowed speed you can walk right through it and still not get hit by the blast finisher.