Guild Wars 2

Hurr, cause I only play MM. What point are you trying to make? A, it says from the sides or back, thus it sounds like a 90 degree angle, but regardless. That doesn’t make his AI any more of the problem. So yes, he was poorly aligned, got taken out by a bow, and AI didn’t kill him, which is what this whole thread is about. Go make a new thread if you want to complain shortbow is too powerful now.

^ That’s probably the biggest truth. 1v1 has a very powerful rock paper scissors effect.

They’re not. AI builds also have no spot condi removal nor cc breakers. People just want to complain

endlessagony.9412:

Loki.7690:

8/10 Cute, little, creepy necro I would rid this mask only
P.s. Hard to don’t like cute little female asura’s

Here goes my necro

9/10 looks kind of voodooish plus props on making a norn. I think there should be more norn necros.

I want to use nightmare pants with mine but I’m a PvPer and we don’t deserve cool armor T_T

The answer to all patches ever is "My “x” class got nerved against a, b, c, d, e and f, and we didn’t even get any compensation."

Dirame.8521:

ronpierce.2760:

Because you’ve obviously never played it. Its easy to make biased judgments. I can show you the difference between a bad MM and a good one.

Right right, so you skillfully sidestep into your minions all the time. None of it happens randomly it’s all skill. With about, 6 of them running around all the time, it’s totally all about skill nothing to do with you having 6 bodies running around… cool, I got ya.

About as much as you skillfully dodge attacks with your dodge roll. #GW2ishard

Don’t be annoying. YES they can dodge them by sheer accident, too, but you can also purposefully do this (like hiding behind minions when a thief stealths to avoid backstabs) rather than standing around like a goofball waiting to get stabbed.

Because you’ve obviously never played it. Its easy to make biased judgments. I can show you the difference between a bad MM and a good one.

^ Exactly. I play with dagger on my MM, its just a kittenty aspect of having melee attacks that hit only 1 target (skull crack, thief attacks, necro dagger, ranged projectiles that don’t pierce). Just part of the game and designed that way. I’d love if necro dagger would cleave though…. drool

In our defense though*, some of it is a L2P issue in that you have to get used to it. When we did MM+Spirit ranger versus MM+_Spirits I still had no issues doing what I needed to do.

It does have its advantages (but those are also disadvantages if you think about it, both people see the same stuff). The spirits are much more distracting than minions though mostly due to the bright colors and exaggerated effects on the “on use”. One of the biggest issues is that people don’t turn off enemy names (and keep on Player names) so the name clutter is TERRIBLE, but fixable. Minion clutter isn’t bad cause they mostly stand still and aren’t flashy. One of either isn’t too bad, multiple of either can start to get a bit hectic. This includes for the MM (Its harder to watch my minions health if I see multiple of the same type of minion.)

I do not think MM are OP however, nor are they too messy. Just when stacked. But I hate ANYTHING stacked in this game (5 perma stealth thieves, 5 CC warriors, 5 Condi necros, its all just as annoying.)

MM is a top contender for 1v1. (Minion Master). However MM DOES have a high skill cap (and high skill floor, so they’re easy to be at least decent with even if you’re not too good.) If you get really good at avoiding CC to make up for your lack of CC breakers, and get really good at locking down enemies so your minions can deal damage, and you actually attack and don’t expect them to win it for you, MM can be pretty potent 1v1 and 2v2. Anything higher than that, AOE starts to take its toll though.

This has been brought up before, its relatively small, but I kind of agree. Though it also gives people more time to flame if they can’t fight. Be sure to think about that :P

Well I said the BUFF (not the AI) may be a bit too strong because of how well it scales with Condition damage. But that isn’t an AI issue. the buff is just too good. And it’s being nerfed. The bleeding just shows how many arrows he took to the back of the head.

This also makes it so PvPers can’t get them…… :/

hooma.9642:

ronpierce.2760:

Well, perhaps its a little known fact, but short bow only applies bleeds if you’re facing away from them. So if you’re letting them flank/backshoot you that does sound like you got outplayed. Shortbow doesn’t apply bleeds unless you face away. If he used axe AND shortbow, he didn’t have a sword (loss of like 2 evades, so back to the no defenses thing). Pet condi damage isn’t fantastic so…… Do the math, bud, you were taking shots to the back of the head, you were likely going to lose regardless..

yeah my talking.. but u know why thinking about faults on playerside if u can complain about ai… common the pet hit him for 1.9k.. thats 99% of the dmg the ranger did or not?

Wow.. nice catch. I didn’t even see that… Seriously the pet did a grand total of 1.9k damage to you and that was AI winning?!?! Are you serious?!

Well, perhaps its a little known fact, but short bow only applies bleeds if you’re facing away from them. So if you’re letting them flank/backshoot you that does sound like you got outplayed. Shortbow doesn’t apply bleeds unless you face away. If he used axe AND shortbow, he didn’t have a sword (loss of like 2 evades, so back to the no defenses thing). Pet condi damage isn’t fantastic so…… Do the math, bud, you were taking shots to the back of the head, you were likely going to lose regardless..

Spirit ranger has high defense but not because of spirits. Its because 5 points into wilderness survival + sword/dagger + short bow = a kitten ton of evades. Those “tools” are universal. Spirits themselves have an aoe 2 second immob and a blind on decent cooldowns, unusable if the spirit is dead, 0 stunbreakers and no on demand condition removal. Yeah, I’ll stick by my statement that SPIRIT rangers have little to defend themselves outside of what rangers can all do.

Amaterasu.6280:

I don’t think AI needs to be removed, but if it’s AI that’s doing most of your damage, then that’s a big problem because AI is extremely potent in chasing targets and sticking on them. Kiting is not an option in combat because you are much slower.

MM necros, spirit rangers are the main culprits here obviously. In my opinion, if AI is to do damage, then that damage should be lower than the damage coming from weapon skills.

I’ve attached a screen shot here of my death breakdown from fighting a spirit ranger once.

EVERYTHING on there was automated, from the burning (via sun spirit) to physical dmg + bleeding (via auto attack), to the pet’s auto attack.

How exactly does this promote skillful play? 14k from burning, 12k from bleeds, 3.5k auto attack dmg and all you have to do is have your sun spirit up and have your pet follow me while SB #1 is on autoattack. I would love to know, because as a thief I have to pretty much use every weapon skill/utility smartly just to survive and fight against a spirit ranger / mm necro.

You want to argue that spirit rangers/mms are useless in team fights, but they offer body blocks as well as other utilities (more so spirit rangers), group burning/proc and res?

Spirit rangers are not bad in team fights, in fact they CAN shine there, hence the buff spread. However, that’s not an AI issues. You’re complaining that Shortbow consists of mostly 1 spam (not an AI issue), and that the burn is too potent for a buff (not and AI issue, its a buff light might is, its just strong), and then the pet that ranked under all the rest. Most pets don’t hit as hard as ranger pets, that’s the whole idea behind ranger is fighting with their pet. I don’t even play a ranger and I know that ranger itself suffers due to having that dumb AI pet because their personal attacks/damage suffers to compensate for it. You need to look at what you’re complaining about, its not “ai”, your issues are that spirit ranger shortbow is bland and that the spirit’s “support” buff is too powerful. None of which is an AI issue…

silentnight warrior.2714:

There’s nothing wrong with them being meta builds. Nor should we say outright what should and should not be allowed to play in high tier. If you’re good ALL builds should be “meta” THATS balance. You refusing to learn to fight something is not. I hate burst. I think anything that can take something from 100% to 0% in less than 4 seconds should never exist in any MMO. I think condition damage should not exist beyond light damage, and conditions should be only for utility. But oh well. You just learn to deal with what you have. The phrase “x should never be viable” is a very short sighted comment. Have you noticed how represented Mesmers, Spirit Guardians and MM are in tPvP? Hint: They’re not. They’re already NOT meta… Maybe if they were meta you’d be forced to actually learn how to deal with them rather than raging when you finally do see one. >_>:

Rangers made it into the meta but not because AI… They made it in because they could spread the most powerful DoT in the game in an condition meta. Their spirits weren’t hitting people and keeping people from rezzing…

Well, in a sense they don’t. And by fixing this it TECHNICALLY would be dumbing down the game, as purposefully using minions to body block is a skillful tactic, as many single target melee and ranged attacks hit what is closest to you, it has nothing to do with them being pets versus players. That said; I see why its annoying/frustrating. But my point is fixing this would leave classes like MMs even more vulnerable then they already are with their lack of defensive tools, and thus would likely need to be compensated.

Yes, MM have too much sustained DPS (mostly PvP talking here) but only by a little, but our cleave/aoe is nearly nonexistent. And in any MM with gear progression everything should scale, even if its just proportional scaling, it doesn’t have to reflect our personal stats, just gear levels.

That said; by the way. MM has a long of other glaring issues.I’m willing to trade :P

<- Avid MM, I agree, to an extent. Though I have always thought if the enemy TARGETED is in range, it should hit that person, but if you swing and I’m not around it should obviously still hit the pets. It doesn’t prioritize the pets, it prioritizes the closest enemy toward you, a player can body block as well. Its intended and cool, but I agree it can be harsh on low-mid tier players fighting things with a lot of AI entities in the field, and even cause issues with some higher tier.

Another small point; if you take a different angle view. Removing AI actually lowers the general skill cap of players. AI require a different style of play to beat (usually from kiting/multiple awareness), and removing an entire way of play makes the game easier on YOU, right? Well, that means you’re dumbing down combat so you only ever have to focus on 1 or 2 things (which even with AI generally, you only need to look at 1 or 2 things). So removing AI doesn’t make the game more dynamic, its refusing to learn to deal with various situations. Hell, I hate being locked down and never moving, its way more frustrating than seeing a few weak summoned mobs hitting me for 200 damage, but I’m not like “hey lets remove all stuns, chills, immobilizes, and dazes”. Simply because that is dumbing down the game, not making people have to play better. In short, its a niche, and like with all niches you have to learn to adapt and deal with it. AI is not hurting the game any more than people refusing to adapt and learn are hurting the game.

For roaming many do SF cause its easier to rush someone and requires no set up, which is what I run when I run zerker in PvP. It does fine. If you can spare the time, Wurm is obviously better ASSUMING someone doesn’t just kite you away from it which can cause even more issues. I’d say for roaming try to do SF, but that’s just me.,

Most AI builds already lack in competitive PVP. Hands down, they’re already crippled. Your suggestions would wipe them from the game. Also you didn’t read what I said obviously because you’d realize your points and information was wrong. All of the minion’s specials (CC or otherwise) is already triggered by the master, not automatic. Rezzing off minions would be broken as all HELL and anyone who brought MM to WvW would literally get flamed to death. It would be a literal NIGHTMARE. I listed a TON of drawbacks to running AI.
- AI mechanics are hard to handle
- lack of stability in all AI builds.
- Lack of CC breakers
- Lack of on demand removal.
- Weakness to AI.
- Crippled without them.
- Lack of control.
- They don’t dodge with the master. (One shot aoes wipe entire builds.)
- Terrain issues. (Did you know the 50 second cd 3/4 cast time Golem charge (you keep saying is automatic) can get stuck on a pebble and do nothing?)
- They have huge-mid combat cast times to resummon. (1.5 sec cast times for 5 minions is 7.5 seconds of nothing but trying to get out your minions, after being moa’d or heavily AoEd, there’s no recovering from that. Also A thief can kill a necro with no stability, no mass evades, no CC breaks etc in that time… kitten can almost anyone else…)
- MM have to worry about more buttons than most other builds. 5 summons, each have its own additional ability (10 buttons), 2 swaps, and DS (3 weapon sets) which is about 26 buttons (Cause DS f1), AND life force gauging compared to say a warrior that has 16, one of which is a heal that no one presses…

But you ignore all of this and keep saying the same incorrect points…

It wouldn’t hurt for toughness to be a bit better. In the grand scheme of things is already a poor stat. Protection is what makes most bunkers OP, not toughness. (Coupled with high healing &/or vigor)

Yes, the numbers would have to be looked at, the 30% was a rough estimate, not something to take to the bank. but essentially settlers would work more like Soldiers or clerics, not an amulet to do it all in one (tank, heal and dps).

Carrion, yeah it could use some help. But that’s not because condition damage, it just tries to add power where it doesn’t really belong… Power isn’t a great stat without prec+crit damage, most times its best to just go for one damage type or the other and not shoot for average at both. The reason its so bad is because most condition attacks have terrible power scaling anyways, and most high power attacks have little to no condition application. Thus; building for both at once just means you end up wasting stats, defending carrion doesn’t mean stats shouldn’t be properly balanced.

Rabid would have a dps nerf, and some more HP, not a big deal. (it’d be essentially 240ish vitality with of hp, something rather minor.) and Berserker amulets would be getting some condition defense. It’d shake things up and would need to be tested, I agree. But it would be better in the long run.

Moa really isn’t that OP in 2v2. Its okay, but to be honest the no rule tourney went over just fine. None of the winners were 100% of the time blazing through. Even us as Petting Zoo lost several times along the way.

Just brainstorming here but wouldn’t this sort of resolve the condition damage issue?
- Reduce condition damage by about 30% across the board. (Compare Soldier damage to Settler damage.)
- Make Conditions able to crit. (So they need to utilize other stats to achieve stronger condition damage.)
- Remove Vitality. (For resistance)
- Add Resistance, which acts as toughness for condition damage.
- Toughness and Resistance both gain 50% of the HP that vitality originally gave.
- Protection now reduces ALL damage by 25%.

Wouldn’t this cause stats to all work together properly in a circle, as they properly do with power damage, level out stat weights and bring all damage types to a more streamline base? The game could deal with a little less condition cleansing too if stats were properly weighted…

Tentacle back was my favorite one..
Also Ankohra that’s adorable. It’s like a classy yoda. Not rating it though since im not posting a picture :P

ahuba.6430:

ronpierce.2760:

Stogzlol.4795:

kitten conquest. That is all.

I agree with this.

As for the image of the game, I doubt it. I don’t think its that bad as is. And it has a good ground work to make a good come back. I still enjoy GW2 pvp I just hate conquest. 2v2s would just… make my life.

them double PU mesmers comps

Doesn’t scare me. I’m from Petting Zoo. MM+Spirit ranger. I’m a nightmare myself. :P Its fun though!

Stogzlol.4795:

kitten conquest. That is all.

I agree with this.

As for the image of the game, I doubt it. I don’t think its that bad as is. And it has a good ground work to make a good come back. I still enjoy GW2 pvp I just hate conquest. 2v2s would just… make my life.

Well I think the game is too late to “change” enough to “fix” it. But that doesn’t stop it from being fun with what we have, as long as balance changes still come. Rewards are already being looked at, same with play modes, so that’s just a dead horse waiting to be resurrected, no sense of beating it anymore for now.

If im not mistaken a lot of the Sliver items have a rare chance to be crafted by crystals. Its an RNG luck thing.

Oh; but I do agree. Ranger Dog pets need to not have an auto-rotation knock down. I’ll grant you that. It’s really not good for the game. The Wolf fear however is active and the wolf casts it for something like 2 seconds. :/

Aw, no rank on my updated Toxic Nightmare set, pdg? :<

Boy this is misguided, I main MM, so I know what I’m talking about. But honestly, I think you should stop taking enemies’ “advantages” as concrete and realize for that player, AI is a drawback too. Couple facts to set you straight (From an MM’s perspective! Not Ranger.)

1. AI damage for MM is strictly single target. So is our weapons. In group fights we’re near useless.

2. Flesh Golem charge is a 3/4 cast. Not only is it not automatic from the AI, it has a longer cast time than most regular attacks… Rigor Mortis (immob from the bone fiend) is instant, but has to be triggered, and doesn’t go off until the pets next attack ranging anywhere between .001 to 3 seconds, you just don’t know for sure.

3. Pets don’t dodge when the master dodges. In Khilo I can play perfectly and 1 catapult, my entire build is wiped out. Engie wants to throw grenades from up top in the forest keep? I lost.

4. We have no direct control over them. Unless we run away, or attack another target our minions will chase anyone leaving us defenseless (very defenseless btw.)

5. We have 1 CC breaker that has a pre-cast time and doesn’t move with us, and a long cooldown AND sacrifices the minion… On a build that is dead without them…

6. Pets like to take the scenic route when chasing enemies.

7. Pets have normal run speeds and no gap closer abilities (hint, very easily kited)

8. Most people don’t know this, or refuse to listen, but you can turn off enemy nameplates, while keeping Player nameplates checked and minion names will no longer clutter your screen, but you can still see the enemy’s name!

9. No (good) “AI” build for any class has stability, and other than mesmers most have 1 or 0 stun break.

10. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong in the game.

11. People still don’t realize this but tab targeting now prioritizes players BEFORE pets. If YOU mess up and target a minion, deselect and tab again, problem fixed.

12. All builds have niches, take away MM’s ability to 1v1 you have a completely dead build that was a symbolic piece of what a necromancer was.

13. Spirits for rangers do not make it an “ai build”… They’re active KILLABLE support signets… They don’t attack. They spawn entities, but they don’t do anything for the spirit except buff. Remove might, stability, protection etc if that’s an issue. And while you’re at it delete 90% of the traits.

14. It’s best if you just stop complaining. Burst is op, conditions are OP, bunkers are OP, stealth is op, evading is op, cc is op, support is OP. What the hell do you want us to do in this game? Sip some tea?

15. The joy of MM isn’t that I have all the AI do the work for me. It isn’t because I have to struggle with all the crap I posted above (Aka, I can lose for stuff out of my hands too) but the joy is from controlling your enemy in order to let a rather dumb army of zombies eat the enemy. Its fun for me, the niche is cool and the feel behind it even cooler. I’ve been MM for about 9 months, at least in its ups and downs I take it for what it is and I’m not a FOTM roller, like a lot of people are.

16. This game isn’t even hard. Usually if you die to AI, you’re just not moving enough, just a little bit will typically do. Pets miss a lot just from basic combat flow, and they die in the same manner. If you’re not trying to control an enemy so an army can get some hits in you’re spamming a few hard hitting burst or aoe condition spells and randomly pressing your evade buttons. Stop pretending AI players have to works so much less than the typical spam-pro.

17. I’m done raging at this.

Erm, immobs don’t interrupt you. They interrupt movement, but I’ve casted heals through being immobed. They can however keep you facing a direction and if the enemy slips behind you while immobilized, yes it will misfire..

It’ll more than likely waste it a lot :/

Sorry I run Blood fiend (Replaceable with Consume Conditions), Bone minions, Wurm (replaceable with shadow fiend), bone fiend and Fleshy golem.

Blood fiend needs a buff, so I keep using it, plus I enjoy it for other reasons. CC is likely better but I prefer my favorite minion. Plus it heals when stun locked. Wurm is best 1v1, shadow fiend is more useful if you roam.

Immob stacking isn’t that big of a deal as far as I’ve felt… I mean theoretically; it just means people can use all their immobs at once rather than comboing them right after one another, essentially the effect is the same, but if people immob bomb you, and you cleanse it, they lost all of their immobs cause they front loaded them… Risk vs reward as far as I’m concerned…

I’d agree with changing how axe works as far as adding a combo, but I’m not really sure if they do skill rehauls do they? I may be wrong, but I don’t remember any weapon skills thus far being hugely redone, has there been any? (Not talking about fixes/updates, but total reworks)

Would like to get some more attention on this topic.

Carpboy.7145:

ronpierce.2760:

Vaikenn.8371:

7/10 I see a lot of Arah Armor. They need more necroy looking stuff in GW2

9/10, I actually like this because for once, the colors are pretty well handled, but finally someone made a good use for the trickster legs. I just can’t do it without it looking silly. (Usually too skimpy looking).

I updated my colors/staff and a few other parts, and got my Spore back pieces. I’m loving the close-to finished product of my necro in PvP!

What gloves and shoulders are those? Are they from the new LS?

They are Toxic shoulders/gloves which are buyable with Gems for 400 gems each (gloves and shoudlers). However, if you convert them to PvP you get 1 of each, light medium and heavy of each one. (Which makes it a better deal technically).

Vaikenn.8371:

7/10 I see a lot of Arah Armor. They need more necroy looking stuff in GW2

9/10, I actually like this because for once, the colors are pretty well handled, but finally someone made a good use for the trickster legs. I just can’t do it without it looking silly. (Usually too skimpy looking).

I updated my colors/staff and a few other parts, and got my Spore back pieces. I’m loving the close-to finished product of my necro in PvP!

I believe that is correct, that they do. Though, it seems like they shouldn’t. They REALLY need to work on sigils and clear up tooltips while they’re at it.

In tourney mode, not hot join. Make sure you’re not just hitting “play now”. You que for Solo Que Arena or Team Que Arena, when you win and you zone out there will be a golden Trophy icon on the bottom right of your screen. Click it and accept your reward.

PvP necros are great. In PVE it depends on who you ask. In PVE early on MM is great, having no Agony resist and pets not dodging when the master does is a big problem though. But! They make for great body-blockers so it makes your teams job easier and you can still do good damage. Condi in PvE is okay, but the cap sucks really bad. Power is just okay, not much more to say. Warrior/Ele can do it better, and Guardian can do it and never die, so take your pick. :S

There you go, with the shadow scythe.