Guild Wars 2

Not referring to you, Cynz. I was talking about Jalmari.

Is this thread ONLY pve by the way? That’s important to know because otherwise answers may vary. I’ll just assume so because of the armor-type references?

Smiley.5376:

Have you thought about the class that needs it the most: thief ?
You think this is an important issue compared to all the rest ?
Your talking about a godkitten “unbalanced” rune while other things are much more unbalanced…
I’d say first fix broken weaponsets, useless elites, useless/bad designed traits, condi/immob/spam meta, OP builds and then you could tackle the runes to fit the meta better.
Currently lyssa fits the meta very well… So leave it be and

That’s not how balance works. There are 1000 threads out there with all the things that need tweaks. You don’t leave OP stuff OP because other stuff is OP. Anything overbudgeted and powerful deserves a mention. Yes Thieves need help defensively (outside of evade/stealth spammers), yes other things need fixed, yes other stuff needs nerfed, but that doesn’t make it right.

Bhawb.7408:

You can’t land your skills, therefore I have no skill and should be nerfed. Sounds legit.

You’re in stealth, this means that the minions have de-aggro’d from you, and are returning to me. Even if you’re using your immense skill as a thief to come in from stealth when I can’t see you at all and backstab, minions don’t stand on top of me.

Or, all you need to do is attack me once, to aggro them, as they run away from me towards you, you stealth to me, and boom all of my minions are still 900 units away, and you don’t have to worry about landing such a difficult skill shot.

Don’t speak to others about skill! Apparently they don’t understand it if they assume anything that beats them takes no skill to play. They haven’t had time to practice and become good with all the QQing effort they’ve put forth. :P

Power 20/0/20/30/0 is my favorite.

Oh so he hax. No wonder when I went to his server to stalk him I could never find him. No sympathy for the cheaters!

jalmari.3906:

ronpierce.2760:

as purposefully using minions to body block is a skillful tactic

AI spam is just ridiculous kitten in this game. It has nothing to do with skill.

Not only target breaking By npc spam is totally broken also some npc’s like pets/phantasms are totally out of balance more or less depending on situtation/build.

I honestly get tired of repeating myself a lot. So to keep this simple:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Sikari-s-MM-Duscussion-Suggestions-II/first#post3244609

Read this to understand pros and cons of MM, and why I find that they’re not imbalanced nor cheesy, just a different way to play. Finally the only advice I can give you (assuming/hoping you’re not just a hard head like most people) is play MM in high-end pvp even for just a little bit. You’ll realize there is much more to it than you give it credit. Blanket statements are easy to make without actually playing them.

Point in case: (Sarcasm) It’s so hard to play GW2 spamming hammer attacks on warriors or spamming stealth on thieves, and spamming walls/blocks/invulns on guardians and spamming condies on engi/necromancer.

Point is, the game isn’t hard and the draw backs of having pets often outweigh the benefits unless you’re fighting nublets who stand still and take it.

Its not, but because of this they just need to go ahead and make DS stomping a natural part of the game… Its no broken, and isn’t like we’re any less vulnerable to cc/stops, unless we have stability traited to DS, which even then isn’t a big deal because you could just flash DS then…

wait, wait, what?! XD Body blocking is intended, pet classes have the ability to defend themselves with them by hiding. Are you absolutely serious? I can get the criers but that’s absolutely ridiculous. xD

Invizible.2960:

ronpierce.2760:

Stop complaining things that aren’t equal (balanced) gets nerfed. You’d kitten just as much if there was a huge power creep (already happening). You win some, you lose some. But you live. You live to fight another day!

You think you’re a man with that keyboard in your hand don’t you?

I’m a man without it…

If only you knew what you were talking about Lighter. If only, right? xD

clint.5681:

People are running out of things to call OP these days it seems

kitten, or there’s a lot of stuff that could be fixed. It’s how the game progresses. You know what doesn’t help? People defending OP things because they don’t want to give up their obviously superior things. AKA powercreep.

Having traits that means you have to specifically have 1 of each to deal with 1 guys trait is annoying. If there was a trait that gave power invulnerability under 20% the game would come to a halt…

Stop complaining things that aren’t equal (balanced) gets nerfed. You’d kitten just as much if there was a huge power creep (already happening). You win some, you lose some. But you live. You live to fight another day!

Valentin.2073:

JETWING.2759:

If is OP just use it :/

exactly

no not exactly. >< That’s why this game has evolved into OP vs OP builds and nothing more. And things like this cause a power creep. Oh this is too powerful for condies? Lets not nerf it, lets buff condies. Condies too OP now? lets extend the duration of Zerker stance to 8 seconds. Get the point? Then all you have are OP builds trying to stay relevant and anything else becomes further and further left behind. kitten needs to be nerfed, its part of mmos, some stuff comes down, some goes up to EVENTUALLY find some balance. There’s no balance in everything being OP, it just ruins the game.

You’re delusional if you think Lyssa is balanced with other runes. Lyssa can effectively be a lower CD Save Yourself+Contemplation of Purity with better boon gain, just not taking the conditions from allies. That’s incredibly OP for a single set bonus… Versus what, you said?
- Runes not usable in spvp.
- A 2 minute cd 1 second fear?
- 5% toughness as condi damage? So… what, 75-90 more condi damage?
- Burning when blocking a very gimmicky set bonus… I fail to see how you’re finding that lyssa is just another one of the many awesome options to chose from.

Just double click or drag and drop the armor into the panel to the left. That puts those items into your bag. While in a PvP area, such as the mists, open your character panel and you will have a similar panel that has that armor. Then just line in PvE you equip that armor. Be sure to re-upgrade any items you swap out with new runes and sigils!

Dee Jay.2460:

What makes Lyssa so desireable is that it is the only counter to having such a massive amount of Conditions dumped on you.

If classes could only apply..maybe 2-4 different Conditions then Lyssa wouldn’t be all that appealing.

But since Conditions are so abundant and you can quickly find yourself with 8 different Conditions Lyssa are one of the few ways of dealing with it.

Nerf Conditions dumping and you nerf the appeal of Lyssa runes.

This agree with. Yes Lyssa is OP, but so is a lot of other things. So those defending lyssa, don’t say its not OP. It definitely is. Unfortunately GW2 has boiled down to fighting OP with OP and burst tactics. The TTK is WAY too short, there are too many “infinite” cheesy builds (infinite stealth/unkillable 1v1 no damage bunkers/ yada yada). It is a problem; its just there are many other problems too.

Erm… Pardon but this MM build wrecks 1v1:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAodWjEal69aua07JAJFRT90DuBPcIF5KNA-ToAA1EIpQyhkBJJSWkGhsCZWA
(Blood fiend is exchangeable for CC, but I prefer Blood fiend for heal through stuns. Also if you’re roaming a lot I’d suggest shadow fiend over the flesh wurm.)

But it does require a lot of skill to use versus top players (rolls right over nubs though). Versus high end players you have to watch more closely to the placement of your bone minions, the HP of your sacrifice minions to ensure you get the most use, and become REALLY good at chain cc/snares so that you can keep your minions up on people, but if you do it right, it’s very deadly 1v1.

They’re also incredibly potent in 2v2 when coupled with Spirit ranger (Petting Zoo comp) or with a Venom Share thief (VSMM comp). In fact Fallou T and I got banned for Petting Zoo being too powerful… :/

Lastly; I’d just like to say I’m not sure what all the fuss is about not being able to see because of clutter versus builds that spawns entities (AI builds if you will), because our first match up was Petting Zoo comp versus Petting zoo comp, 4 AI builds and I had absolutely no issues telling what was going on. I think it really comes down to practice with fighting these types of builds, and learning to not instantly feel overwhelmed, which is why many people lose to them. (Except thieves without a lot of evades, teleports or stealth, those just aren’t 1v1 builds to begin with but even in the hands of a good player they don’t often have much of a chance.)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAodWjEal69aua07JAJFRT90DuBPcIF5KNA-ToAA1EIpQyhkBJJSWkGhsCZWA
(Blood fiend is exchangeable for CC, but I prefer Blood fiend for heal through stuns. Also if you’re roaming a lot I’d suggest shadow fiend over the flesh wurm.)

Edited it into the main post. Sorry about that.

alanis.6094:

Bhawb/Ron: Do either of your run MM without TotM ever?

A lot of Condition MMs do. It’s kind of a waste to not have it if you ask me as a power MM, which is the only thing I really have faith in. My PERSONAL belief is if you want to do conditions you’re better off REALLY going conditions, but some people prefer it and that’s just fine. If you want to play power; I’d definitely say go with TotM, its just too good to not have, and its in a power line so it buffs your dagger a good bit and lets you take the Focus trait, which is a very powerful off-hand.

striker.3704:

I detest all of your suggested changes, and I have been an MM for over 750 hours.

Also pet scaling isn’t going to happen, ever. Anet said something about it before (I can’t provide a source) saying that pet scaling led to minions being far too powerful in builds that weren’t centered around minions. This lead to them replacing the original trait ideas (summon 2 bone fiends instead of one, summon 3 bone minions instead of 2, ect) with traits that buffed minion flat stats.

Couple things. I’m fairly certain Bhawb and I both have had more than 750 hours each on MM as that’s basically all either of us play (or at least a major part of what he did? Can’t speak as of now). So this isn’t an hours spent race.

Secondly you have 0 reasoning behind why you “detest” everything I said.

Third; I’m not asking for stat scaling. I’m asking for their power to rise identical to average growth rate per ascended item worn. The reason being; without that you don’t have to worry about them becoming too powerful. They literally just lose power. Everyone gets stronger, they stay the absolute same, they become weak. If you want your build to stay in the shadows while everyone else rises in power as tiers of armor come out that boosts everyone elses’ power, you be my guest.

Smiley.5376:

Most ppl QQing about lyssa are probably those classes that have to take an elite with a long cooldown while other classes with an elite with low cooldown can “spam” the benefits of lyssa. They probably don’t realize that for those classes lyssa is pretty much a MUST for basic survival. The reason why they need it is the condi meta So stop blaming lyssa runes, start QQ about condi meta ! But those that QQ about lyssa runes are probably those in favor for condi meta so yeaaaaah…

I’m for neither and hate powercreep so yeaaaaaaaaaaah……..

Infamous Darkness.3284:

ronpierce.2760:

Also; Runes of the Soldier, my necro doesn’t have shouts. QQ

but you see this is not the same as three professions have the ability to use shouts (ranger, guardian, and warrior) which leaves out 5 proffessions, while on the other had this new rune includes all but one profession, so if an update comes where every profession other than necros get new skills that include shouts, and necro gets new skills but none are shouts then we can have a comparison…also I believe anet said they were working on getting all profession the ability to use all weapon types, so your necro with great sword may not be as far off as you think.

They also said they’d be adding new abilities, so signets might not be so off neither.

Also; Runes of the Soldier, my necro doesn’t have shouts. QQ

Lol give that dev a break. The reason most MMOs fail is because Devs don’t have a backbone, he’s entirely right. Stop whining just because not everything in the game is usable for you. I want to use a greatsword on my Necro, but oh well…. Seriously. It wasn’t rude, just stop being so sensitive and selfish.

fodem.2713:

Whats is the point on nerfing lyssa ? You guys want to have 1 less option ? There are already millions of crap to chose, you want 1 more ?

I dont even run lyssa runes, I dont think they are worthy enough but I really dont see any problem on lyssa. We should have more options not less…

Lyssa can’t be brought down to reasonable levels and others also brought up? Seems like the logical thing to prevent both a power creep and useless runes. o.O

tetrodoxin.2134:

Agree that it is overpowered, talking about the (6) effect of course. I’d like to see a change like this:

(6) When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions. For every condition, gain one random boon for 5 seconds. (60s Cooldown… maybe even 90s)

Still a good panic-button for condi spikes, but not nearly as OP with low-recharge elites, and it would get more situational, just like all the other runes. I know that the last thing this game needs is more random stuff, but the main benefit should really be the cleansing. And that aspect would stay the same.

Personally, I actually like this the most. Sounds about how a rune set should.

I can get defending lyssa because you need it to survive the meta… But really? It’s not niche… There’s nothing niche about a 48 second CD giving you all boons (including stability) AND removing all conditions which includes things like immobilize, poison, and chill which have nothing to do with condi builds, because power builds utilize those as well. Its not niche, its just even MORE effective against condi builds. Lyssa very much-so is op versus anything in comparison to other runes. Like if you add up what the whole set does, that single 6 piece bonus alone on a thief or warrior is better than most other rune sets. x.X

That’s exactly what I mean. Will they be only obtainable personally, or will we be able to trade them on the market?

It’s mostly the power of them with short CDs. 35-48 second full condition wipe, full boon gain (one being stability) is undoubtedly too powerful compared to other runes, no less.

Also, if you don’t see anything wrong with “Mass Invisibility” stomps:
- Invisible
-Protection+Regen
- Stability

There’s literally 0 counter to that. You can’t boon rip, you can’t aoe cc (or really even aoe damage it in time). So yeah, I mean… I think it’s an issue, and you’re right partially because of the access to boons. Take stability from Lyssa and it’s fine. (Or moreso fine).

Because I’ve played MM for 9 months. Its pretty much all I know how to play with the time and dedication invested. Which is how I know all the people who complain about AI are full of it usually and just have a lack of knowledge on how to deal with them. (Last tourney we faced off as MM+Spirit ranger vs MM+Spirit, both were rank 60 players and we still beat them. It wasn’t even remotely hard to follow what was going on. People just panic when they see more than 1 enemy, and don’t turn off minion names, so they get overwhelmed. But they’re really not that big of a deal.) Also we considered playing Venom Share MM, but we just decided eventually to skip this tourney all together and wait for the next FML tourney.

Any word on if the skins will be BoA/BtC or tradable?

What are you trying to pay attention to with other things? Their 3 second swing timer? Most of them don’t do much they’re killable DoTs… And don’t hit THAT hard individually. It doesn’t kill you to see if there is a bone minion around you or if you could quickly kill a vital pet that might be low (watching floating HP bars). You complain about a lack of skill then say you want to not have to work to fight someone. AKA you want more tunnel vision. That’s exactly what you said… These pets aren’t friggen ninjas doing acrobats, they mostly just auto attack and miss a lot.

I only hate it because another low cd stability was the last thing warriors needed…

Oh, and your utilities can be aoe’d down, that’s also something to consider as AI.

It… does…. 1.5 second cast time middle of the fight for your utilities, lack of stability/cleanse/cc breaks/dealing with clunky AI/positioning issues/slow reponse aren’t drawbacks?

I can tell you, I agree backstab should prioritize target, especially since its a stab, not a slash (more precise), and work on flank as well (if it doesn’t already?) I never said backstab didn’t need help. I’m just saying body blocking isn’t as much of an issue as people in this thread have made it. It doesn’t stop cleave attacks in their tracks, doesn’t tone down the amount of AOE in the game. Most attacks will cleave with a very small exception, so I think people need to take a step back and realize this isn’t as much of an issue as they’re pretending. Like I said yes I run mm. But I played a dagger MM with a spirit ranger versus a condi MM and a spirit ranger and guess what… I had 0 issues following anything happening… Which ultimately makes a lot of the AI issues just L2P issues (save backstab thieves because stealth causes minions to return to the master).

I said I agree with that for single-hit melee attacks. My MM suffers the same issue as I run dagger, but I’ll be frank I don’t see it as much of an issue as you seem to. I rarely get body blocked. Sometimes actually if I see a flesh golem almost dead and I don’t feel like tabbing, I’ll try to keep my target on the necro so my pets attack him and try to swing at the flesh golem near him and I still hit my target a lot of the time, so I do think its blown out of proportion a bit.

The hammer is fine.. It does its job. It has a counter play, I don’t get where you think it doesn’t… Unless it was defaulted to the enemy team in your games and not claimable, I’m fairly certain the counter is to take it back…

Hint: It’s not. If lyssa didn’t give stability, I wouldn’t be so frustrated with it, but its pretty clear its way over the top versus other runes. Specifically when coupled with cooldowns that are like 45-48 seconds, its insane. But such as life I’ve learned to deal with it. :P

I will say, I don’t mind falling but engineer magnetic pull being conveniently a slow-cast spell and pulls you right over the glass that they casted it on, and there’s basically no counter other than stability, it’s pretty GG. At least fear you can cleanse/CC break before you fly off if you have it.

The point is without assistance it’s not really saving your ass/prolonging your ability to linger. I didn’t say our downed damage is terrible, but hopefully that will never be a race because that’d mean everyone is dead x.X

The problem is you assume pets = easy. You refuse to believe having AI can also be difficult to handle because you cannot perform things as quickly as you’d like. With MAYBE an exception of Spirit rangers (and useless guardian spirit weapons) most AI builds are easy to play in low tier, but are some of the hardest in High tier, which is pretty much how it’s supposed to be. Also most AI builds are strong in 1v1 and terrible in group play. That’s a niche, which is why they typically side-bunker. You have to learn to think about most AI builds in a different light, instead of them being direct fighters their “skill level” comes from controlling enemies and surviving with limited active defenses to allow their minions to be effective. This is specifically why in low tier (when both players are bad) the other classes struggle. They take hits from AI far too much and then of course they die. In high tier, where there is a lot of movement and juking, AI miss a lot and spend most of their time traveling, locking down an enemy is the skill for the AI controller while avoiding CC, applying CC back, AOE and burst are direct counters of AI builds. In top tier play AI builds are actually under par (hence few if any top tier comps have AI builds like MM). So what you’re asking for is already in place, yes they’re strong in 1v1 and yes they can cream bad players. But that’s about where the line is drawn. Without 1v1 viability AI control builds have no place ANYWHERE in the game, and all because people refuse to accept alternative play styles. I for one enjoy controlling an army and watching out for my multiple units and acting as a “warlord” of sorts to control the flow of a fight. (Hence my Necro, High Warlord Sikari). So no, there’s not an issue, and if AI builds are you top concern you either need to practice more against these types of build, become more accepting of alternative playstyles or just simply become better as a whole. You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to play MM in high tier versus things like Warriors and AOE Engies/Necros. It’s rough, and I’m not even the one complaining about Warriors. I love where warriors are, they deserved the lime light after all the crap they went through.

Just wanted to say, Necro has the worst. It’s effected by all of the above AND our 3 is a friggen poison. Woo. >_>

Sky hammer is my favorite. I wish you couldn’t fall off the edge and only in the holes, then it’d be perfect.

You could not be a decent (anything) but specifically Mesmer and thing that #1 would ever be good. So what happens when you down someone and you shatter clones or sacrifice a minion for their effect? You just… rally people? Or splash damage gets one of your bone minions with 13k hp down to 1k just before someone dies and so they should rally because of that? (Same with clones) These ideas aren’t bad based on opinion, they’re mechanically flawed.

What do you think, do you think Polearms will still make it into GW2? I’d love to have a melee polearm on my Necromancer as a melee power cleave weapon…

(In reference to: [&AgZPWQAA] )

Did the OP read a thread on the WoW forums before posting this? I’d never heard this analogy, now I see it twice on two different games within 2 days of one another. :O

No; if he had THAT much bleeding, he did take take more hits than he should have. We also don’t know what class he was. Say; mesmers spend a lot of time running in the opposite direction when summoning phants or gaining grounds, which causes them to get bleed stacks, too many unknowns but a simple fact is he clearly got more bleeding than he should have AND that whole picture was to knock down AI. I didn’t make up anything, he died from the ranger attacking him; that’s all there is to it.