Guild Wars 2

I’m not complaining, but I could see it go either way, tbh. I was just curious.

^ And any heavy aoe, especially conditions. Bomb/grenade engies can rip an MM a new one. MM isn’t all that powerful, it just hard counters a few builds, while others struggle with it, then some blow it away, and it doesn’t do that fantastic in team play. If it got nerfed it’d probably disappear forever T_T

There is the slight issue that he’s power Spirit, and not conditions, which condi spirits tend to have an easier time with MM by a long shot, really.

I’m not sure if this is a bug or intended, hence posting it here, but I feel like it probably should. The Training of the master trait doesn’t seem to affect minion siphon damage even though the minions are the ones doing the damage, insights on intended mechanics?

Valentin maybe practice? If you need to practice you can duel me (ingame name is High Warlord Sikari), I’m an MM, I’ll duel you and see where you can improve to get me down if you’d like.

While I see your point when it comes to matching via leaderboard rank, however I’d venture to say if you’re in team tPvP, and everyone’s rank 40+ you should have a pretty good idea of what you’re doing by that point, so any loss from then on is, (not that you denied it) a skill factor, maybe try working to team comes/builds some? And just accept there will always be dream teams out there that 500 – <100 you once in a while, ANet can’t nerf their skill, and they have to fight SOMEONE. A group of 40s doesn’t sound like a bad matchfind if you ask me.

You also have to take into consideration that elites are balanced for the class as a whole not one-to-one, that’s where a lot of people make mistakes when assuming imbalance. A lot of Warriors run with that signet, its a relatively low CD, works well with Lyssa, plus gives them long swiftness/might/fury(?), which allows for some good burst, which affects everything else they do as well. While yes some stuff are imbalanced (Moa for 1v1, Supply Drop 1v1) overall the issue isn’t as large as some would believe. Some are just never going to be useful unless they become grossly OP like the warrior Transformation. Its good, TONs of CC, but you can’t use your heal through it, and people don’t typically enjoy playing with transformations because they can be quirky to use. Its not a balance issue, its a gross preference issue there, and not much can be done to help that except giving whole new abilities.

Justin ODell.9517:

No, not a bug.

Please share your feedback if you would like this changed, or not.

Just give holiday bags in addition-to. I don’t think you’re at any risk of over-rewarding PvPers right now.

I wish a large amount condition removal would go away and conditions would scale from Power(and less than they do with condition damage, so overall nerf) and remove condition damage, and greatly reduce the number of conditions applied by things so conditions rightfully become flavor of damage, rather than its own type and over-used. That’d be my ideal use of conditions.

Lifewaster.5912:

The underlying issue regarding thief blinds is not the black powder, is the passive trait that applies an AOE blind every time they stealth. When combined with D/P stealth this produces an abscene amount of aoe blind spam that hits ppl outside of the powder.

Its odd that this trait has no internal cooldown. Most blind skills are single target with 20+ cooldowns, yet this trait on D/P is throwing out aoe blinds every 3 or 4 seconds, even faster at times since each HS that stacks stealth sends out a fresh blind.

This is my ignorance, they did stealth a lot too, but I didn’t realize this trait existed, so maybe its not all black-powder, but the spam-factor was definitely there, even when I wasn’t “standing” in the blackpowder, so this at least makes a bit more sense as to where all the spam was coming from, but it doesn’t make it any more fun to play against.

Currently when you use Vamperic Master and Bloodthirst (+20% siphoning effectiveness) the damage goes up but the healing actually falls, is this intended, just a tooltip error or a bug overall?

Without Bloodthirst:
Deals 79 damage
Heals for 75. (Actually healing for 72.)

With Blood Thirst:
Damage done is 94
Healing is 70. (Actually healing for 86)

Edit: after more tests, just seems like the tooltips are overstating what they do, and incorrectly tell you that your healing falls with the trait.

I can sense neither of you read the rest of the thread. If its getting too long for people to read the rest of whats said just don’t bother.

Bhawb.7408:

ronpierce.2760:

Careful saying that though, people might draw an improper conclusion. They also can’t dodge (and don’t dodge with the master), tend to have lower toughness, and don’t worry about positioning/being in aoes so, there’s quite a huge difference when it comes to EFFECTIVE hp :P

You also can’t resummon a player after he stupidly walks into an insta-kill AoE, whereas my minions are back in 30ish seconds.

True. I have a pretty PvP-oriented state of mind (I know that’s not what this thread is about) so my opinions are a bit biased to incorporating pvp outcomes too. XD (30 seconds of no pets in pvp is a dead mm for sure)

infantrydiv.1620:

ronpierce.2760:

infantrydiv.1620:

ronpierce.2760:

I never said zerker stunlock warriors didn’t need toned down, but this wasn’t about that. Make your own thread about how something else annoys you (which im sure you already did, and you got told you were stupid because there’s another FOTM build that can crush that build too.) Doesn’t make blind spamming any more fun just because a certain build is OP. Its still just as boring to fight.

D/p thief doesn’t spam blinds. You are spamming blinds on yourself by standing in the field. Learn the difference.

not when you’re a warrior and they’re using steal whirl combo (and maybe their elite too?)

So you stood in a stolen axe skill and a blind field AT THE SAME TIME? Impressive.

Are you really that stupid? You realize how conquest works right? You don’t want to lose a cap you suck it up and deal with it, for one thing, the other thing is I was getting blinded from whirl-combos not in the smoke field. Being blinded faster than I can attack, put 2 and 2 together you might be able to realize not everything in the game is a “l2p” issue and some things are just not fun to deal with.

infantrydiv.1620:

ronpierce.2760:

I never said zerker stunlock warriors didn’t need toned down, but this wasn’t about that. Make your own thread about how something else annoys you (which im sure you already did, and you got told you were stupid because there’s another FOTM build that can crush that build too.) Doesn’t make blind spamming any more fun just because a certain build is OP. Its still just as boring to fight.

D/p thief doesn’t spam blinds. You are spamming blinds on yourself by standing in the field. Learn the difference.

not when you’re a warrior and they’re using steal whirl combo (and maybe their elite too?)

I never said zerker stunlock warriors didn’t need toned down, but this wasn’t about that. Make your own thread about how something else annoys you (which im sure you already did, and you got told you were stupid because there’s another FOTM build that can crush that build too.) Doesn’t make blind spamming any more fun just because a certain build is OP. Its still just as boring to fight.

Sheesh, hostile. People kitten the game has no diversity of builds, someone tries to play diversely (Support warrior, and by the way the build is wonderful, only blind spam causes me annoyances and its just because the whole idea behind it is boring as hell, its not interesting, I can clearly see everything I do is about to miss, its just I attack too slow for it to matter.) but anyways; kitten there’s no diversity, someone tries to play something else then tell them they’re an idiot for not playing the one OP build that’s breaking the meta. Good plan guys.

Bhawb.7408:

Flesh Golem/Blood Fiend: 33,000 HP traited
Bone Minions: 13,000 HP traited
Rest: 28,000 HP traited.

Even the most pathetic of our minions have comparable HP to players.

Careful saying that though, people might draw an improper conclusion. They also can’t dodge (and don’t dodge with the master), tend to have lower toughness, and don’t worry about positioning/being in aoes so, there’s quite a huge difference when it comes to EFFECTIVE hp :P

infantrydiv.1620:

ronpierce.2760:

I’m a warrior, Whirl is a mother effer. Didn’t have to stand in it.

Yeah…times are tough for warrior right now… with things like berserker’s stance and perma stun and 1k health per second regen

eye roll

Good thing I’m a shout support and don’t tend to conform to the same build everyone else plays and have an actual mind of my own. No one has fun when its Battle of the OP builds, I wouldn’t care if they nerfed FOTM warriors too, I’m sure there’s lots of bad stuff out there, I’m just expressing my one frustration with blinds.

I’m a warrior, Whirl is a mother effer. Didn’t have to stand in it.

I get it, S/D isn’t easy mode OP anymore and thieves jump to the next spam build since they were horribly designed to fit in this game, but please… No more kitten perma blind, its not fun to play against, it isn’t interesting its just kittening frustrating… Please? Really, please… I’m so sick of all the thief builds that pop up, just re-design the kitten class already. Thieves hate thieves because they have no defense because of all the cheesy crap they do, everyone else hates thieves because of the cheesy crap they do, just make them a normal class already. Perma/spammy anything is all thieves will be and its just time it goes somewhere else.

(Inc random thief “no.” My response: “Yes.”)

Just curious if we could get some better/more descriptive and accurate tooltips for sigils, and maybe even improve their functionalities (as far as how they mesh with other sigils/sigil types goes). And also say specifically what they share ICD with. (And maybe make leeching sigils not share ICD with the Vampiric rune set)

Vick.6805:

The major problem with having a support character not be able to support themselves equally with their teammates is that they potentially will be unable to defend against the inevitable “KILL THE SUPPORT” mindset in PvP.

If their self-heals and such can’t protect them against being singled out as THE target during a match, then their support is meaningless and inherently not viable.

That’s why I stressed their support HAS to affect them, just LESS than others (maybe not even a lot less). However! If they are as good at supporting themselves as others they essentially become bunkers that can also keep everyone alive and well, which would be pretty bad. (No Resto Druids for GW2 please)

Say a bunkers defense is a 5/5 and a glass dps is 1-2, support should be at about a 3-4.

My question is, how did anyone even discover that bug in the first place. :P Who had that trait :P

Okay tested, you’re right, thanks. Had a minor freak out.

I seem to have missed something but Flesh Golems damage went from like 600-700 down to 244 per hit. That’s a pretty hefty hit. why did you even fix the siphon trait if you were going to pull a move like that…

From what I can tell these do show them… In the top right corner just like push-abilities with the little circle-arrow icon. o.O

I’m glad there’s less spam stun and win builds. Thieves should have never gotta a high damage attack with a stun that lasts its entire duration in the first place given that they don’t run on cooldowns…

felivear.1536:

Don’t you think the full mailbox maybe is a bit of a hint at the likelihood that your PM would be read/responded to?

He’d been missing from the forums for a while, so I think he might be a bit behind on it. Also, I have spoken to Sharp via messages on a few occasions, he’s pretty good about it. It easy to forget to delete really old messages, I never do.

I like to talk one on one sometimes too, on the off-chance of being able to give some feedback without making a public post about it, can you clean it out a bit so I can do that.

Chaos storm causing Chaos? Working as intended.

Knote.2904:

Dahkeus.8243:

Boosting healing power could definitely help….but then we’d be back to the same problem with nigh-unkillable ele bunkers like we had early on in the game.

Hmmm….it would be nice to see something like this balanced out, both in PvE and PvP.

Not if they readjust aoe beneficial skills to be stronger on others and weaker on yourself.

Look at what they did to Guardian’s Healing Breath.

Exactly, and that’s what they need to do. Leave the self-portions of things alone and just boost coefficients when affecting other targets.

NevirSayDie.6235:

ronpierce.2760:

Not true, make them healers and fill an entirely different role, there is not power creep. They just have a new role and the support “power” grows, and grows a definite place, as long as the support builds don’t become more tanky than true-bunks.

Hammerheart.1426:

I have no problems with the idea of toning down everything else in order to bring support up. The game needs far less spike damage and bunkering ability.

I don’t think Anet will (nor should they) consider pre-alpha level design changes to the game. GW2 has been out for over a year; this is not a good time to suddenly add dedicated healers. Nor is it reasonable to nerf every damage skill and every mitigation skill in the game and start over.

I think that when the forums make suggestions, they should be simple, non-intrusive fixes that would have a noticeable impact on gameplay. It’s not reasonable to expect the game to become something totally different with a couple of patches.

That’s why I think that support skills should generally get stronger but less selfish. That would increase a supportive player’s value without allowing the power creep that allows dumb builds like regen warrior.

I think you underestimate what’s already in place, to be honest. Plus Support role was an original part of GW2, it just never hit the nail on the head because damage scales so much better than healing power, so everyone was forced to either be fully bunker with some CC (or a little support) or DPS with some control or a little support. There have been a few “control” builds along the way (necros/warriors mostly) but support hasn’t had much play, outside of maybe a Staff guardian. Its not changing the core, its kind of wishing what was said in the beginning was true all along… (Also Warrior healers already exist, and in a pinch, so does Guardian healers)

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hammerheart.1426:

It’s also hard to justify building for support only because there are only five people per team and you don’t have to sacrifice much support to also get good damage, survivability, or control, or all of the above.

This is the problem right here. Support isn’t prominent because there is no incentive to give up good damage, survivability, or control, in order to benefit the team. You benefit the team more by getting 2 (or even all 3) of those traits all in one build.

Well right, but the only way to prevent that would be to make enormous nerfs across all professions so that it would be harder to do everything. I think it would be better to continue improving support skills across the board while making them less selfish at the same time, to prevent power creep.

Not true, make them healers and fill an entirely different role, there is not power creep. They just have a new role and the support “power” grows, and grows a definite place, as long as the support builds don’t become more tanky than true-bunks.

Hammerheart.1426:

Exactly. Though, like I said, I don’t think it would be sufficient if NONE of the support affected the caster too. Just have a BETTER use on others. (we have to survive too, we can’t be just simply burned down and moved to the next or we’d be pretty useless) Just be sure of that. I mean as a healing warrior CURRENTLY, with heals affecting me, depending on the stuns/burst/or heavy conditions I can still pretty easily be knocked on my butt :/

Played properly, the enemy is having such a hard time with the people you are supporting (assuming they aren’t pants-on-head-kittened), that you cannot be their priority target. But how is this balanced so that support classes aren’t absolutely required? Are there balanced advantages/disadvantages for not having a support role on your team?

Support classes, caught alone, should get severely punished for not fulfilling their role. There should also be different types of support, it can’t all be the same. CC Support, Minor sustained Healing/Cleansing support (obviously we can’t have a dedicated healer in this game), mitigation support, area denial support, etc.

Ideally the balance is that a healer would be less personally defensive than a bunker (but more than a DPS) but have little to no dps, thus bringing another DPS could realistically kill off enemy healers quickly. If anything it gives burst roles more of a significant use.

Hammerheart.1426:

Excellent examples of support types from other PvP Games.

Voltar and Genji from Awesomenauts. – Voltar can provide a small robot that generates an aoe heal over time during teamfights, and also can provide a slight knockback against enemy ’nauts. His auto attack also does no damage, but heals allies a small amount. Genji can cocoon enemies, and grant a damage mitigating shield to allies, the shield can also do a small burst heal. Both of them can turn a teamfight into your favor.

Support.

Dark Seer from Dota2 (only hero I am really familiar with). His three moves are; an aoe vaccuum that pulls enemies into the center of the radius, a shielding effect that causes damage to things in melee range of whoever has it, and a speed buff.

Support.

Notice nowhere did I say that these “heroes” are tanky/bunkery/hard to kill. We need more stuff like this that is actually viable.

Exactly. Though, like I said, I don’t think it would be sufficient if NONE of the support affected the caster too. Just have a BETTER use on others. (we have to survive too, we can’t be just simply burned down and moved to the next or we’d be pretty useless) Just be sure of that. I mean as a healing warrior CURRENTLY, with heals affecting me, depending on the stuns/burst/or heavy conditions I can still pretty easily be knocked on my butt :/

I think the difference is you cant even close to perma invuln, but you can definitely perma stealth… :/

yanchoy.9176:

ronpierce.2760:

Nah what’d be REALLY cool is if the person who gets the killing blow got a “Rally” buff and it allowed them to tag-instant rally a friendly member, so then people could clobber the rally-guy to prevent him from rallying his friend. Talk about fun/interesting playing THEN!

Since this Rally Buff would be surely exploited by indestructible warriors, how about giving the person with the Rally buff some negative buffs, just like holding an Orb in Spirit Watch. But of course with the additional immunity to being immune, to be able to block and all. So basically, make that person vulnerable to anything.

In order for this Rally buff to be useful, teammates should protect that guy from being ganked by the opposite team, so that he can res other guys. Also, because killing makes you vulnerable, DPS spammers now have to kill wisely.

I can already taste the QQ tears from here #nomnom

Well, like I said, it would go to the “last person who does damage” OR first to stomp (excluding downed players) Often times it would be the person doing the most damage getting the rally buffs, which generally aren’t very tanky. Plus, in reality, I think having a tanky-role to raise allies thoughtfully is still better play than an automatic AOE raise that happens now :T any reactive player is better than automation.

Excellent. Maybe we’ll get an Ally-copter in here and she can carry our wishes and dreams to the big-wigs!

In fact… In most cases watching when you use your special heals would be LESS button mashing than dpsing currently is… I mean certain builds right now just straight roll across the keyboard, that’s not engaging.

Bhawb.7408:

The problem with healing as a support mechanic is this: how do you make healing (in GW2) interesting, and engaging? The only way you can heal “wrongly” is by healing someone who can’t be healed (full HP, in Deathshroud, w/e), or healing in a situation where your healing is reduced (healing “overfills” HP bar, poison cuts healing, AoE heal doesn’t hit 5 targets for its full amount). But that doesn’t exactly leave much left, in fact the only big moment for a healer in this situation would be when your spike healing saves someone from an otherwise “death” blow.

Its why healing needs to be looked at as a side-mechanic for supporting, especially sustained healing, and other kinds of support need to be more pronounced. Burst healing, ways to mitigate damage to others (via reflect, AoE protection, weakness on enemies, etc), offensive support (like venom-shares).

Basically any kind of support that force you to make important decisions (aka, can be used wrongly), and can make a meaningful and noticeable impact on the fight are what they need to push for. Some things do this (venom share, for example, can be screwed up, yet has a huge impact when used right), and others don’t (spirits, summon spirit when in fight and CD is up, job done).

- Having combat uptime = healing done. So if you miss a lot or have bad up-time your healing would drop/you’d be dead weight basically.
- Most of the healing would be build into the longer cooldown abilities (like shouts) so spamming shouts whenever would just essentially cause you to be wasting healing and not having it when its REALLY needed THUS again, dead weight (since youre not a true bunker, nor are you a dps by any means.) So it definitely has its place.

Dirame.8521:

Support works quite well right now. Just looking from an Engie perspective, I could quite easily burst heal a group of people, whilst also stacking might and providing CC within the same build.

It’s just that people don’t play those builds either due to conformity, or they haven’t found a way (or the need) to fit them into a group yet.

The big problem is you can’t effectively continuously heal, which is where my idea for the Support tree comes in. It would essentially make our basic combat allow a steady (but low) stream of healing, while making certain other moves (some of which already exist like engis and shout warriors) to provide the more immediate “burst” healing, which is where the “smart” playing comes in, knowing when to use your heals to their fullest and when to just let your steady heals be sufficient. It has me excited just thinking about it :S

Make supporting your enemies reactive. Healing Warriors would be PERFECT for that. Especially if they take my idea by turning Tactics into a Support tree. By merging the 2 30’s into 25 traits someone could use a banner and 2 shout heals, which would be really interesting… A Warrior healer currently is like: (with my build)
Pros:
- Small CC, nothing major (doenst use hammer, just mace)
- Some self defense
- Decent self sustain with shout heals/signet
- Remove Conditions with shouts (2 with shake it off)
- Remove conditions with Warhorn
- Give aoe might and fury

Cons
- Decent self sustain, but it is a little less than the Guardians
- Very low damage
- No knockbacks (lol conquest)
- No stability.

Essentially its a healer but is entirely killable. I find it to be very interesting, to say the least.

Now- those who say don’t benefit yourself, I’d tread lightly. Healers with out their heals working on themselves and no true bunker-ness themselves would have them killed by EVERYTHING so easily all the time, HOWEVER Take shouts self heal how they are now, or maybe after tomorrows patch, but have it heal 30-50% more for allies would be very interesting, really allowing “support” to turn the tides in even a small skirmish.

(Heals would probably have to have a 5 target cap for WvW based on healing the lowest %hp in range.)*************

Knote.2904:

Bunkers should be turned into supports. Any sort of defense/heal thing that can affect other allies should be made to be stronger for supporting others rather than selfishly.

I don’t know how a Bunker role is fun for anyone in a pvp game.

“Ok so this’s guy’s role is to become as unkillable as possible and sit there while people waste time trying to kill him”

“Oh.. fun..”

This exactly. Don’t make healer supports squishy but definitely lower the self benefit and move it into more friendly support.

I still prefer the idea of having a “Last hit” Rallier so people have to react to the game play. MUCH more interesting. Then, people also get to choose who they rally.

So I’ve been playing for quite a while, and started getting to thinking, what ever happened to the Damage/Support/Control types? Currently Control is heavy, but usually tied to being a Bunker or an effective Damage dealer. Damage is absurdly high for certain builds (conditions being the worst). However the game doesn’t seem to fill the Support section well. Unless their definition of Support is Bunkers that just troll people and are good at running circles on a little circle and tosses a few knockbacks here and there. (In which case the rest that I say is meaningless, but I hope that’s not the support they mean.)

A few key points I wanted to point out are:
- There is no three way building, its Bunker or Burst (B&B duo)
- Healing power scales worse than damage plus each heal has a long cooldown, so essentially Healing/support naturally doesn’t have a fit right now, its a poorly weighted stat (granted HP+Toughness on a few certain builds can be hard to kill, but generally that’s because those builds also have protection/stability or high evasion too, so be careful to look at the whole package before you say I’m wrong.)
- Support is such a small portion of what any build can do, most are still either Burst or Bunk with the ability to affect allies/enemies in some RELATIVELY small way.
- The most controversial; people actually kind of want to heal… This game has a good way to allow that! It truly does!

Now, the reason I say all of that is I started playing a support “healer” warrior recently, while its not QUITE there yet, it got me thinking… (Build is Mace/Shield+Sword/Warhon 0/0/25/30/15 shout healer) What if healing and support actually became a real thing? Now, I don’t want GW2 to have immortal target ally and press/spam a heal button. No, absolutely not. BUT! What if a single tree for some, if not all, classes had a very defined support tree that gave benefits to healing and boons and the traits gave healing and buffing aspects to normal abilities. Especially with the more defined traits coming along I could REALLY see this working!

Essentially supports could be AOE/Combat healers that still focus on being right there in the fight and doing damage, but they’d obviously do less (like bunkers do) but with a bit less personal defense and more group-wide benefits and their main goal is to actually heal and support their team. (Yes guardians can already somewhat do this, but it could be a lot better if you ask me.)

- Minor traits in “Support trees” would build the base of healing while attacking. These would not be weapon specific, but say auto attack also heals for a portion of weapon damage, but scales with healing power, which heals nearby allies. (Low base, high HP scaling, so its less effective for DPS roles to pick it up and expect it to be highly potent for them.)
- Majors would add supporting and more specific effects.

Examples:
Necromancer Marks now being able to heal for a small amount and applying defensive boons.
Move Vigorous shouts and the banner heal to adept 25 point (merged), Having banners periodically aoe spurt hp, shouts work how they do now, and the new 30 points be that Shouts and Banners healing give regen as well and shouts remove a condition. (Shouts would give like a 5-8 second regen while spurt heals from banners would give a 1-2 second regen.)
And this idea could follow through several characters. Thieves could be poison healers with leeching poisons.

Its just a thought I wanted to throw out because I had high hopes for being a real “support”, and healing doesn’t have to go away just because click and heal does. It still has a place, and I think it would be wonderful and fun.

Try not to be too critical, I know not everyone likes healers, but I think this game has a good groundwork considering what I’m proposing already exists (shout healers), just make it a little… more of a thing for those who enjoy that gameplay. I think it’d be fun.

Doesn’t change the fact that Arena is a hit. WoW’s arena (while psudo successful) was HORRID. No one wants to pillar dance with a healer. Luckily that’s less of an issue, here. The concept is what we want, not the same implication. Additionally, here, we don’t have to mess around with “outgearing the competition”. So that’s a huge plus. The only thing is, 2v2 would have to support both Pre-mades and random teams at the same time. Otherwise it’d almost defeat the purpose.

Basically what dimyazuka said. ANET had good intentions, they really did. Remove the trinity so people could build how they want on more “unique” turf of damage, control and support. However! They did some really bad moves and now you end up with:
The Duo-type system
Full bunkers so you can stand on a circle indefinitely and (control) push people off.
And Full damage dealers who die to a sneeze but they can nearly 1 shot combo anyone who doesn’t press the dodge button at the exact right time.

And honestly, I think the conquest is the biggest reason that its that way. Anything else isn’t getting people on or off of bases quick enough/isn’t optimal. Hence why real pvp is arena style. That always leads me into my tangent of wishing amulets went away and all pvp armor became “celestial” stats, so stats were evenly distributed, because then damage dealers would do less burst but survive better, tanks would be less tanky but not hit for 200 damage a swing, but you could still specialize either direction, just with less of a “swing” via stats/runes and sigils. It would also bring more build variety (believe it or not taking something away CAN bring more variety because it tears down certain walls).

Oh and the “Rally buff” needs to have a really REALLY obvious animation/look

Nah what’d be REALLY cool is if the person who gets the killing blow got a “Rally” buff and it allowed them to tag-instant rally a friendly member, so then people could clobber the rally-guy to prevent him from rallying his friend. Talk about fun/interesting playing THEN!