Guild Wars 2

If it helps, I could agree with you, maybe your other condi removal options need to be better. Like I said, I’m not saying other balance changes don’t need to be made, so don’t assume I am. I’m also not trying to say Engies are OP. I’m saying simply that a single trait that can shut down an entire build (several for that fact) by ignoring them entirely, just isn’t okay.

I’m not here to cry, never was. I don’t even PLAY a condition Necromancer. And to be frank, 1v1, I don’t have an issue with much of anything, but I do care about game balance enough to accept if something is too good, it should be changed. The point isn’t thakittens situational, its the fact that it entirely bypasses certain builds without even having to play anymore once at a certain point. That’s just not okay. I suggested a good alternative:

At 25% hp, clear all Conditions and gain immunity to them for 6 seconds. 40 second cooldown. That’s enough time to pop back up, it CLEARED that condi stacking on you, and it even makes you un-conditionbased-ccable for a bit. It would have its uses versus anything, but still mostly good versus condition specs.

That’s STRONGER than Berserker stance, lower CD, still mindless since you guys obviously like that sort of thing, and yet, if they’re just putting THAT much pressure on you, you will still die as you likely should. Being able to not play and outheal ANY build in the entire game is not “okay” ever… I have no clue why you guys can even think that it is…

Aegis / Reflect in block trait? Sounds not too abnormal…

Well its fair to say no other class AT ALL can miss their attack and not be affected. Part of the skill in this game is making sure your attacks connect or suffer the consequences.

Thtats not how game balance works. Guardians don’t have physical/power immunity at low HP. Immunity with unlimited up time at any point isn’t good for an MMO game. By design it just isn’t, there is no justification for being able to build yourself to be unkillable against several builds. I can see you don’t want your prescious trait to be nerfed and I be that, but while guardians are strong bunkers they’re killable by anyone, Bunkers are by design meant to hold off a point for back up, not (literally) be able to stand idle while a certain build is unable to do damage to you even fully specced for damage. That in every sense of the word is imbalanced. Bunkers are to WORK to hold off enemies. Being able to bunker versus most builds and be immune to others just doesn’t work in a game where people are SUPPOSED to die, that’s how conquest works. You hold off an enemy but eventually someone dies if support isn’t good enough on one side or the other.

And people agreed impossible to kill isnt fun. AR is t skill based at all. If they changed it to like I said a full condi clear and 6’sec immunity on a 60 sec cd, it would be more skill based because it saves you, acts as a clutch but survival for a time would be up to you. That’s the problem. It’s fine to be bunkery and hard to kill, but just writing someone off because you’re immune to all of their damage isn’t good for balance.

Celebratty.1632:

“I think this mechanic should be added into the game because it makes sense for this to happen and there is no legitimate reason not too.”

These people:
Wow hate on thief more, kick us while we’re down don’t you? All you guys are bad and should learn to play instead of blaming us.

Are these people:
Oh my god I can’t believe ANet made spirit ranger so overpowered this is so dumb passive effects are for people who can’t play the game get rid of this stupid mechanic!

Saying people are bad or that ‘you can counter it’ is fun to say and all, but its hard to take people seriously when they alternate between saying we’re bad and X is so op.

Well to be fair, if someone dodges or blocks your attack, yes you should suffer the consequence. If a necro uses Corrupt boon, just say, and they evade it. Guess what happens. It doesn’t go on a 3 second cool down. It goes on a 40 second cool down and poisons us.

This isn’t an issue of “others need to learn to play” because they did learn to play. That’s just it. They dodged or blocked a mindless assault. On the other hand. A thief COULD learn to play and not attack a warrior blocking, predict dodges, don’t attack a blurred Mesmer or what ever. Thieves have way too much reward versus their risk in a fight because “if all else fails, press the button again”. No other class in the entire game can do that…

Differences:
Wow-
Stealth was generally only at the beginning of a fight except a 3 min cd to vanish.
Rogues had massive stun locks
Rogues (at least eventually) were not as squishy as thieves.
Aoe knocked them out of stealth.

GW2-
Thieves can stealth over and over.
Are squishy
Can teleport all over the place and back again.
Can spam moves with little regards to a cool down.
Aoe doesn’t effect stealth.
A large amount of skills passively evade attacks for no good reason (worst thing in the game)
Can spam blinds.
Of course not all at once but, I can see why people get upset with a zerker class in this game who has access to these kind of tools. They have much lower risk for their reward as a zerker compared to many other zerkers who can die much easier if not careful, and can spam abilities if they miss rather than accepting a long cool down for the mistake made.

Side note: they’re also adding Templates… 1v1 Template, Tpvp Template, Etc. would work swimmingly.

Also if they started this while “tanky, attack me!” role, Toughness would have to mean a bit more than it does currently, but that’s just kind of my opinion. No one really has the ability to face tank like a typical “tank” does unless they’re max vigor and dodge spamming or something. This sort of thing just wouldn’t work on say a Warrior, because it’d almost be their doom haha.

That said, if I may, a small skill-based revision?

Taunt – Causes the enemy to target you, and move toward you.

Difference being, it’d literally rip the threat from someone else for the small duration, but they could NOT move, but if trying to move, they’d run toward the taunter. Kinda has some active counter play but still VERY solid.

Yeah, that could work. Though on that token, I PERSONALLY feel like fear should be the same.

Velron.3729:

ronpierce.2760:

Velron.3729:

ronpierce.2760:

Velron.3729:

urdriel.8496:

Sry but, SUMMON a minion or Spirit is a ACTIVE skill.

Lol, don’t be silly here. It summons something that provides extremely strong, passive benefits for a long duration and then can be re-summoned to do the same as soon as it de-spawns.

Wait, spirits are troublesome but AR isn’t? I’m thinking someone is a troll.

Quite the opposite. I am for getting rid of all these things.

But you can’t single out just AR bc it hurts your Necro. You need to do a thread like this – talking about ALL passive crap.

I’m also for removing self rez skills – for ALL professions.

Thing is, I was saying AR needed changed, I wasn’t suggesting, however that Necros didn’t need changes along with many others. XD I like balance, believe it or not. I can’t STAND the amount of FOTM Necros out there atm…

Me too, that’s why I mostly play my stun warrior in tournies right now.

Haha, I play what I always did. MM Necro. I will defend MM necro to the death because despite what people believe, it DOES take skill to play them in high end competitive, the skill isn’t in having them, its keeping best up-time and keeping them alive in the onslaught of aoe. That said, I get furious when I see MM having a full bar of minions and using staff and running circles like its a kitten Phantasm Mesmer T_T

Fun, I agree, but I have to say, I don’t think the game needs more Conditions before a new boon (if anything at all) plus it’d cover another slot protecting conditions. Have to be cautious of that. That said, Blood Line Champions had this type of taunt, and it was fun in that type of game.

I have to just chime in here and say; this game NEEDs 1v1 arenas with rewards (just similar to any other method, just not kitten from rewards, nothing special that others can’t get). The game is balanced ENOUGH that anyone can make a 1v1 build for any class (everyone single one, I’ve done it so I know it works, even guardians). But not everyone wants to be FORCED to deal with other people. 1v1 is a wonderful way to let pvp lovers just go at it on their own and still feel rewarded. It won’t be for everyone but nothing is for everyone.

IMO:
This game needs a 1v1 mode
A 3v3 mode
And general tPvP (no hotjoins) – Here, just have a check mark in your pvp panel that says tPvPs count or do not count vs leaderboards so you can serious yolo que, OR not serious yolo que, you can serious team pvp or not serious team pvp. BUT the community wouldn’t be divided anymore, and people would have to learn to play because the only way to make good glory would be to win (increase the glory of a win to 500). Then the match maker prefers to put pre-made groups with premades and groups of 3 or less together.

Sometimes you might get unlucky and get a premade, but at least games would be running, the crowd wouldn’t be split, you could do it noncompetitively if you wanted etc.

Velron.3729:

ronpierce.2760:

Velron.3729:

urdriel.8496:

Sry but, SUMMON a minion or Spirit is a ACTIVE skill.

Lol, don’t be silly here. It summons something that provides extremely strong, passive benefits for a long duration and then can be re-summoned to do the same as soon as it de-spawns.

Wait, spirits are troublesome but AR isn’t? I’m thinking someone is a troll.

Quite the opposite. I am for getting rid of all these things.

But you can’t single out just AR bc it hurts your Necro. You need to do a thread like this – talking about ALL passive crap.

I’m also for removing self rez skills – for ALL professions.

Thing is, I was saying AR needed changed, I wasn’t suggesting, however that Necros didn’t need changes along with many others. XD I like balance, believe it or not. I can’t STAND the amount of FOTM Necros out there atm…

Well, I understand that, I was actually being a bit exaggerative, because they were making it sound like MM’s are just dying for their minions to die. But on a more realistic note; They have the ability to make them as sustainable as they need to be for those who chose that play style and make them more tanky for those who chose the other via a single trait. For instance if all minions had 20% more HP, and the 3 non sacrificed minions had a tad better toughness, then, the trait gave an additional 30% HP (yes, I know it’d be a slight increase from now) and maybe some condi removal over time so they don’t die to aoe condies so frequently, they could strike a balance so that IF you wanted sacrificable minions or to use minions without traits, you could, but if you were making a build that relied on up-time, at the expense of points, you also could.

The thing is, if you like them to die, its pretty easy, don’t take 50% increased HP. If they put more of the (asked for) toughness attached to this trait, you’d have 100% choice over tanky or not tanky minions. Problem solved for everyone, really.

HiSaZuL.2843:

You mention moa… yet don’t mention OUR own elite skills that destroy minions? What?
Completely forgot about water. No elite that’s usable in water if you run minions. What other class out there gets penalized for using the only elite they have.

What about the fact that most boss aoe tears up minions in 1-2 hits?

Your entire post is about cast times and traits and trying to change anet mentality of disposable utilities instead pushing for more sustained minions.
Death nova constitutes a MASSIVE damage boost. Also ontop of providing single source of aoe it also adds survivability. The amount of weakness that mm can put out is huge. What you propose destroys both. Without mitigation from weakness you will take even more damage ontop of not being able to remove conditions. Taking condition removal is like sentencing yourself to getting either wrecked yourself or your minions dropping dead 3 times faster then before.

Those are nice sentiments but they don’t look at major problems with minions. Anet has no idea… what they want with minions or even necros. They shown utter lack of interest in this class and minions got the biggest “we don’t care” stick.

And asking for nerfs… what… seriously? You run a spec that has not a single self damage increasing trait and you ask for your minion damage to be nerfed?…. ~_~
I’m not sure if I want to compliment you on trying or smack you as a trolling thief.

Before you rant, how about you fight me, you’ll see why its a bit much… Minions have 1 good trait for damage if they die, ALL of the rest, require them to be alive. They do need to stay alive. And excuse me for not talking about water (I’m looking at pvp, don’t really care about floating around in the ocean so much) and almost every MM runs Flesh Golem, except in water. Sorry that from a sPvP standpoint, it wasn’t my highlights. That said, yes minion damage is VERY powerful when you can have 27.8k HP 3.2k Attack, 2.8k Armor and have 5-6 minions out that are traited to deal 30% more damage… Don’t come in here insulting me before you have an idea about what you’re talking about.

Velron.3729:

urdriel.8496:

Sry but, SUMMON a minion or Spirit is a ACTIVE skill.

Lol, don’t be silly here. It summons something that provides extremely strong, passive benefits for a long duration and then can be re-summoned to do the same as soon as it de-spawns.

Wait, spirits are troublesome but AR isn’t? I’m thinking someone is a troll.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

He used axe wh/ dagger and I think dagger.

In that video? I’m pretty sure I saw the gigantic hand from staff 1 coming at your face…. O.o

Different duel, that guy was condi.

Okay, I’m sick of you. Lets duel later, both my necro and my engi, I’ll prove it to you so you can stop pretending to be an annoying kitten.

He used axe wh/ dagger and I think dagger.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

google.3709:

LOL real necros gotta be looking at @Ronpierce and shaking their heal lol

How can a power dagger necro catch a engi at 20% without a 25s cd immobilize? oh yah…. go on death shroud and spam life blast which hits got 4-6ks on power builds xP

it’s be extremely sad if Anet listen to that.. knowing that that guy is trying to run as PvP’s worst necro lol… Staging fights, promoting false information. how low does someone has to go in order to get something nerfed for no reason xP

For the record I’m not glass but my damage is fine, I’m not specced into life blast, so good job there. But also, its not as powerful as you make it out to be. Also, it does less damage further away. AND using this “bad engi build” I beat a legit power necro with it earlier, so no, I don think the Necro community is looking at me like kitten, they’re looking at you morons who can’t accept something is OP and defending it for 9 kitten pages. We’re getting nerfed. We know that, maybe you need to learn to accept your kitten can be OP too.

You beat a power necro using scepter and staff? O.o What is this super secret power necro build that uses scepter dagger. Also I think i remember that necro being asked in the video if they were a condi necro… Sooooo also notice how nobody gave this trait a second look be it enemies or the engi community until the dumbfire necro came out as the FOTM build and teams needed a bunker that could hard counter the stupidly OP condition AOE spam.

Um… I said dagger <MAINHAND> which is power and melee, and focus offhand. STAFF for utility as a second set. Learn to read at least, kitten, this is getting log enough, I don’t want to repeat myself

If Life Blast ALWAYS hits that hard (especially untraited) like 4-6k per hit, why don’t you see tons and tons of Power necks everywhere killing people in 4 seconds like its no big deal? Because you’re full of kitten.

google.3709:

LOL real necros gotta be looking at @Ronpierce and shaking their heal lol

How can a power dagger necro catch a engi at 20% without a 25s cd immobilize? oh yah…. go on death shroud and spam life blast which hits got 4-6ks on power builds xP

it’s be extremely sad if Anet listen to that.. knowing that that guy is trying to run as PvP’s worst necro lol… Staging fights, promoting false information. how low does someone has to go in order to get something nerfed for no reason xP

For the record I’m not glass but my damage is fine, I’m not specced into life blast, so good job there. But also, its not as powerful as you make it out to be. Also, it does less damage further away. AND using this “bad engi build” I beat a legit power necro with it earlier, so no, I don think the Necro community is looking at me like kitten, they’re looking at you morons who can’t accept something is OP and defending it for 9 kitten pages. We’re getting nerfed. We know that, maybe you need to learn to accept your kitten can be OP too.

Maybe I’m doing it wrong? Here. Let me be more clear. I run staff(for utility condies) And dagger/focus.

Let cc. Rigor Mortis- an immobilize
Stakitten
is a fear
3 is a chill
Staff’s damage is pitiful for power (and kinda Condies too its a utility weapon)
Dagger/focus-
Dagger 3 is a 600 range immobilize
Focus 5 is a 1200 low damage 3 boon rip and chill with a 1.25 cast time.
Ds-
2 chills and teleports us to the enemy IF they don’t dodge the projectile, but even then, the chill doesn’t apply, they have perma swiftness.
3 is a fear
5 is torment and immobilize.

We have 1 thing that works AT ALL, flesh golem charge. Long cool down, also dodgeable, and not generally enough time to take someone out who has a stunbreak, regen, protection, and other various defenses that he can save up while ignoring all of my other mechanics.

That’s every possible move I have to gap close. Now, that would be A LOT. Doesn’t matter, does it?

A. A lot of points are big enough to stay on point and kite them.
B. Easy disengages make classes that can’t disengage so easy a liability because a death = 5 points. (Which adds up).

As I said before, I was trying to make a point for conditions, but this effects power too.

I don’t care about the damage, I just don’t like how its immunity to snares, chill, immobilize, AND FEAR. Try playing a DAGGER Necro (hint: not conditions) against AR.

Being able to afk versus them if you safely get to 20% withot any conditions (Ie. mass cleansing them) isnt a counter… It’s broken…

I’d agree except only if it it allows it to transition from land to water fluidly.

Also, why is mm so much better under water???!

Cast times of pets- .5 under water. 1.5 land.
Blood fiend – attacks twice as fast.
(Others may too.)
Such a huge difference.

No, it’ll just start to favor the stuff that “hits harder” and who has more dodges.

Yeah, 8 pages in 3 days honestly deserves some sort of heads up.

But… I love minion master. I do more dps than them combined, I used them to siphon hp (the only way a necro can really bunker atm with how little vigor and other Boons we get, and for CC. If we didnt have to put so many points to make them viable in the slightest, I’d love for their personal damage to go down so I could trait into being even stronger myself. However, Mm is probably one of the least “forget me” since the skill in MM is maxing uptime since if you break it down, they’re kitable killable dots, and do less damage than condy stacks. So just because you don’t like t doesn’t mean its mindless.

What about the MASSIVE amount of evades on basic attacks for thieves, evades for rangers, stealth, mesmers in general, loads of cc, I mean everything that is even “viable” is also cheesy/cheap in SOME way. You just want a different game.

This time, with an engineer who knows what they are doing….

I only did the 1 tourney so far, which was a win. I didn’t even have TIME to run multiple XD I’ll try more though, don’t you worry. The main reason id ont want to do 10 is because of how long it takes to process them onto Youtube…

Didn’t that engineer also say he’s not really used to playing engineer, he was just showing how it works?

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

If he swaps elixir s with another block or stun breaker such as the tool kit for block and cc or elixir gun for extra regen and stun break he will be fine still.

Yeah tbh, I think Elixir gun or tool kit would work better than s in this build, idk I was just toying around, but I could definitely see elixir gun being good for Elixir gun 5 (and using elixir gun 4 in it gives retaliation, that helps with my damage situation!) plus more snares and a shorter CD stunbreak tied to some regen. I could definitely try that out next.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

Well.. Perma Vigor and Sigil of energy, eh that really wasn’t a big deal. Also, Glue bomb, Big Ol Bomb, shield knockback, perma swiftness, some snares thrown in there, it was a good time.

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

Inc a tpvp video!

I’m not going to fraps 10 games for you, but I did fraps one! I’ll upload it and show you guys. 1-2 guys inc, no problem, had good assists, held it like a champ. Very fun.

So… I just did a tpvp, we won.. I bunked home and guess what. I never died… once. o.O and I even frapsed it! It got neutralized ONCE because I went to drop a supply crate on middle since we desparately needed it, but then we got home back, no problem. Didn’t die once. They had an MM necro, thief, warrior, Engi and idk something else…

nakoda.4213:

your video is a demonstration of a counter build vs the profession and build it is a specific counter to.

let’s see everything else now.

Before we go on, we’re all on the same page that Necros aren’t the only condi users in the game, right?

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

no, it makes AR a niche build suited only for condi builds.

a good build will be effective against everyone.

But it is effective against everyone.

but it isn’t. necro are one of eight professions.

I fought 1 class, that doesn’t mean its only good FOR 1 class. Holy kitten, are you serious? o.O

I sometimes forget constant healing with bombs, knockbacks, perma vigor, high uptime regen/protection, perma swiftness, are all things that make for a bad build versus other types too.

nakoda.4213:

ronpierce.2760:

A. That’s not true.
B. I wasn’t really trying to knock him off, wasn’t the purpose of the video, but I do have 2 solid knockbacks.
C. It wouldn’t matter, if I grabbed home, I’d already have it, or I’d have someone help me grab it real fast so I could hold it with (too much) ease versus anyone who came at me with conditions.

and by the same logic, and intelligent necro would call in the cavalry to burst you down with physical damage, and take the point.

No one is going to call for more “back up” when assalting far at the beginning of the game, unless of course they just don’t want other points… More than likely if a guy goes in vent “QQ I cant kill this guy come help!” they’ll either say “hold him off while we get x” or “then kittening leave…”

FYI I was ranked 500 as an MM no less (You know, another nonviable build). Which dropped, and I haven’t really checked it recently, but because I started playing with irl friends trying to get into tpvp who are new and not very good yet. But nice try with that…

A. That’s not true.
B. I wasn’t really trying to knock him off, wasn’t the purpose of the video, but I do have 2 solid knockbacks.
C. It wouldn’t matter, if I grabbed home, I’d already have it, or I’d have someone help me grab it real fast so I could hold it with (too much) ease versus anyone who came at me with conditions.

No… I built to bunker and not die, that point was held, and there wasn’t a thing he could personally do about it. That’s what’s broken.