Guild Wars 2

To be fair, we need those nerf criers. If we only had Sir Buffme’s we’d see a very bad case of power creep. That’s already happening, so some nerfs would be good, even if it hurts peoples’ feelings. However, they need to stop nerfing things by moving traits around and breaking combos/builds, they just need to fix numbers and other things to bring down over powered builds and bring up some of the weaker ones, rather than breaking builds all together.

Cyhann.2609:

Wow man, that’s brilliant!

Not sure if serious or not, but I’ll take it! :P

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ronpierce.2760:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Atherakhia.4086:

Make it do the same damage as poison and put revealed on the target for the duration of the burn.

ALL conditions that deal damage should pull people out of stealth and give them the 4second debuff (where applicable)

Conditions REALLY need to be readdressed. How does it make sense for a Necro to have Burning? Poison, Yes. Burning NO.

Certain classes/specs just have TOO many conditions and can be TOO easily applied —-—> Necro <——-

& Engi

Yeah Engi Burning can be pretty bad, though dont really see that much of a full condition build with them. think Necro is worse at the moment due to all the other conditions and all the fears as well as DS and the new health and MORE conditions.

Well I just meant sheer amount of condies, Engi can have most of them with grenade and even more with dual pistol + bombs.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Atherakhia.4086:

Make it do the same damage as poison and put revealed on the target for the duration of the burn.

ALL conditions that deal damage should pull people out of stealth and give them the 4second debuff (where applicable)

Conditions REALLY need to be readdressed. How does it make sense for a Necro to have Burning? Poison, Yes. Burning NO.

Certain classes/specs just have TOO many conditions and can be TOO easily applied —-—> Necro <——-

& Engi

Atherakhia.4086:

Make it do the same damage as poison and put revealed on the target for the duration of the burn.

lmfao oh my lord the tears of the thieves, +1, all of my +1s XD

Leave burning to the guardians, warriors and eles imo. Wasn’t so bad there, on classes that didn’t also stack 100 other condies. (Warriors are getting there, now too, though.)

So I just wanted to throw out an idea some friends and I were discussing, what if dual-wield combos changed depending on the currently used offhand, similarly to how Thief #3 does. For instance a combo chain would go as much:

Guardian (Mace+shield)
1. Main hand attack – True Strike (Same damage + a little healing) 1/2 cast.
2. Off hand attack – Pure Strike (slams with shield) 1/2 cast.
3. Main hand/offhand Finisher – Defender’s Strike – .5 second block+ damage 1 second cast.

That’s just a rough idea, but what do you think? It’d make fighting animations look much cleaner (who dual wield sand sits there and hits with 1 weapon?) and it’d add more flavor/options, and your offhand would play more of a role in your overall weapon set up.

Grackleflint.4956:

It’s about time we get some.

Thanks to warriors and guardians realizing that anything but tank builds are just terrible, I got to experience 8 seconds of knockdown due to hammer/mace spam from a guardian/warrior duo.

Good thing I had two stun breakers. I almost felt like I was playing the game.

Kinda like how a condition class feels like they’re playing the game versus an AR Engi? You don’t have a ton of room for feeling like something is cheesy when someone complains about your cheese its “l2p, adapt to meta”. I kill CC warriors all the time, learn their rotations and decide the best times to cc break to avoid chains.

MMs don’t even want the traits… they’re just all around terrible

Well either way. To be honest, I remembered something, the Marauders from Warhammer were kind of this idea, and they were GREAT fun.

I’ll be honest, Evades are my #1 thing driving me from PvP right now. We’re worried about gaining a little extra LF 1v1 here, versus an evade that can ignore 50 missiles at once if they all hit at the same time and you can’t cc them while evading, add on stealth. As MM it’s a hard work around.

Teleports cause minions to have to slowly get back to the target.
Stealths make them return to you, effectively doing about the same thing.
Evades eat so many CCs on classes that have too much evade (thieves/mesmers/rangers)
And stealth/evade just slows down my ability to chain to even get life force.

Just some thoughts to keep in mind.

I use dagger/staff, and it was okay, but versus things with evades, (thieves/mesmers/rangers) or just some ranged classes, especially as MM I’m still having a very hard time getting it, to be effective I can’t sit in staff spamming staff 1, and I have to make sure im in range AND getting full sequences off to get dagger 1 LF, which versus a lot of builds/classes can be very hard to do. I don’t know how many times ive died to thieves and mesmers just because I can’t get enough uptime just to get LF.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I just think it’s cute that we have this thread going concurrently with a thread that’s saying Necro’s have no survivability, death shroud is horrible, and that Necro’s, in order to be viable, need to start PvP with life force.

:)

In order to do this test, that necro started with Life force, just wanted to point that out there to you, but also, Not everyone want’s to take spectral armor, a 60 second cd just to be viable. What about MMs?! What ever happened to "We want less survivability only on the spectrals, and more for all builds?

TGSlasher.1458:

Take necro base hp …. swap with elemenalist … give necro more max life force meter and 100% at start of match … everyone is now happy.

I wouldn’t go that far. Also good luck killing a bunker ele then :P

Yeah, pushing us further into the hole of Dhuumfire Terror doesn’t make me very happy neither…

So I’m a guardian in pve now :P and that’s it.

I shelved my Necro (High Warlord Sikari) for a while… MM is the only thing I like, but minions just die too fast in AoE, its far too frustrating because if every game type that isn’t soloing in the pve world (not a great niche) or versus CERTAIN builds it’s strong in 1v1, again, not a great niche, on top of general necro nerfs, it’s just beginning to not be rewarding to try to hold on anymore. :/

I just told you what the point was, if you can’t pick it out of there, I’m not saying it for a 10th time.

FirstBlood.7359:

Let’s not forget that Necros have the highest base HP in the game.

High hp doesn’t really mean much in this game.

Evades are the #1 source of damage reduction, and can reduce thousands of damage at once.

27k hp can stop 27k damage at once. Then you’re dead.

There’s no better attrition than 16k hp able to be healed to full over and over for 5+ minutes versus someone with 27k hp who will inevitably dwindle away after 2. That’s just how it is.

I agree.

I…. (ugh) WASN’T EVEN HAVING HIM TRY TO KILLL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I was showing that the conditions weren’t applying…. You’re making this really hard to stay civil.

Brace yourselves :P

I’ve told you 3 times now, you’re thinking I’m trying to show a Mesmer not able to kill me, I wasn’t…

There was nothing to watch man… I wasn’t dueling him… I was just showing that with condition duration, they weren’t being applied… Neither of us were TRYING to do anything. That’s all it was…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Changes-on-July-23-2013/first

No, they’re busy laughing it up with Rangers who got a 3 sec stealth on longbow (12 sec cd) and some other buffs. They deserved some attention first.

Yeah, they did what they wanted. I’m likely not going to play high Warlord Sikari anymore for a while. PVE took a hit, PvP just becomes worse and worse for MM (taking in others’ changes as well versus ours), I’m just playing a PvE guardian, now, so they win… They got what they wanted.

Blaine Tog.8304:

The last thing we want is for Anet to have a monetary incentive to get players to jump ship on their profession each patch. The plaintive wails from tinfoil-hat-wearers each month would be deafening.

Actually, its genius. Everyone will swap before it even goes out, $$. Swap back, $$. Then they can afford to have more useless/confusing patches and even more $$, THEN! Hire some devs that make a little more sense.

So, what I don’t get is… (And I didnt even use spectral skills) But spectral skills made taking damage keep you alive through it while in DS if hit by a lot of people… So me row had some Zerg defense…? What about almost every thief move that has a passive evade on it that completely negates all damage? I’m not seeing the logic.

Lol “Spectral walk now has a 1/4 cast time because we hate you!” XD would laugh

It’s all overshadowed by the DS nerf. No more forever falling and living with DS or escaping boss 1 hit kills with it. It’s a sad day.

That’s what I want to know before I cry at all. I always felt I was taking too much in DS, so how much WERE we taking additional in DS?

Not sure why that was even brought up, then to be perfectly honest for sPvP.

They had 30-40% condition duration, it still didn’t land. I was only taking Chaotic Winds damage.

So I did a test just now with a Mesmer. They had 30% increased bleed duration, and some others, under 25% I was taking Winds damage and chaos strorm damage, but no condition damage was taken and no conditions were ever remotely applied. That said, it is 100% certainly immunity, so condition duration will not help you.

Well, even scepter with Rampagers, the damage coefficient just isn’t in it for these types of weapons… I don’t know what they were thinking suggesting we could just spec hybrid.. I run a full power MM and my staff hits for next to nothing…

That may be correct, I didn’t test that much, I just tested if conditions were being applied with + duration, and they weren’t, and anything they MAY have been doing, I was outhealing via passive regens.

Advent Leader.1083:

ronpierce.2760:

Advent Leader.1083:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Some of the arguments invoked by certain users around here in favour of AR are so dumb, not to mention self-contradicting and completely ignoring all counter arguments, that it makes my brain cells commit suicide by jumping out my ears.

If the trait is so kitten, and no one uses it, then no harm will be done either way to have it reworked.
I also find it rather funny how engis accuse necs of spamming conds, when they themselves can stack and spam conds just as much (including confusion stacking), while also seeing damage numbers non-power condispecced necros can only dream of.
And I won’t even start with the aoe grenade aoe on downed targets. Stop kidding yourself already. Mind this is meant in general, not strictly in connection with AR.

P.S. At above, your cond-inflicting phantasms should be unable to damage the endi with AR when under 25%, but if that is not the case, it proves even more how much condi necros are being kitten on for lacking any real raw damage.

Let me remind you again of this major issue everyone tends to dismiss (in addition to how permanent immunities are trash for the balance in any game):

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED.

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED.

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED.

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED.

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED too.

The >RAW< DAMAGE of all CONDITION-INFLICTING SKILLS is COMPLETELY NEGATED.

Maybe it’ll actually sink in this time.

The only time damage from a skill is NOT negated is when the said skill only has a CHANCE to inflict a condition (on crit, etc.), which is why DS no4 works to start with and which is why (certain?) phantasms can still hit the engi under 25%. I don’t know whether damage negation also happens with shatter mesmers, but their spike damage ought being FULLY negated too, because all their shatter skills also inflict conditions (Illusionary Retribution). But is that actually the case?

Just going to chime in here – it is not ‘total’ immunity, it’s immunity to standard duration conditions, ergo now that you know that this trait does exist, you can actually still kill the bunker by having modified and longer conditions, and stacking them as fast as you can to the engie.

I don’t have math yet, but sacrificing a little bit of cond damage to increase cond duration by half a tick or full tick will still kill the engie, aside from the direct damage that necro skills have.

Incorrect, I tested it with a Necro having + condition duration, it’s likely bugged, but the -100% condition duration is currently multiplicative and not additive. He had some (little) but still some condition duration, and his scepter 1 (which applies like 3-4 second bleeds) didn’t even try to place a condition on me. It’s about 3:00 into the video maybe a little before/after.

But does the direct damage from the scepter still hit?

Actually, I think the power portion wakittenting, but it wakittenting me for like 70 damage. I was gaining 10 second of regeneration from the hits, and literally outhealing it, but there was no bleed-based damage being dealt. Staff could hit me… for like something pitiful. With fleshgolem never being in the situation I could have used c at 25% and Akitten and never died IF I didn’t actually out heal him by Regen putting me back over 25% after a little while of him auto attacking me.

Toughness just needs to do it, if anything. Or if not that, at the very least Protection should. We don’t need anymore stats, I mean Condition versus Power is a choice how how you want to damage, “how” you want to defend yourself isn’t quite the same choice… Going one way or the other you’re not really hindered despite basic mechanics (aside from conditions having the upper hand atm) while going one protective route over the other does limit your defenses versus the other, if that makes sense. If toughness lowered damage from both essentially you’d be just as tanky versus both, it’d just be different applications of applying damage.

As for “but condition removals!” there’s the case of that. However with the amount of conditions, and reapplications, if removals were toned down a LITTLE bit, conditions would still be very viable if effected by toughness.

My personal choice so that neither power nor conditions lose its flavor, I would just make protection reduce ALL damage by 25% and up the possible uptime on it on certain skills to counteract the power resistance nerf. Then you’d have a choice of protection or condition cleanse versus conditions. Toughness and Protection for power attacks and Blocks/evades for both still. That’s how I’d personally handle it.

Anymras.5729:

Rangers have the same trait as an Adept Minor trait. They spend 5 points and get it without having to choose it, we spend 30 and have to blow a Grandmaster on it.

It’s little things like that, that make it seem like they ran short of ideas when it came to us.

When I read this Dhuumfire came to mind :P

Thanks for the feedback. I know it’s a REALLY long shot, but I just know I’d adore this ability ingame.

Couple things. The rudeness has been going on for pages now, myself not excluded, thanks. But also I suggested ways to BUFF it that isn’t a 100% immunity with no cooldown. The thing is, non of you are willing to budge even for a BETTER all around trait, BECAUSE right now it’s a mindless free-be. I’m not just trying to nerf it, in fact, I’ve stated MULTIPLE times that I would be totally cool with buffing it/making it a better trait, given that you don’t have an immunity to a type of build. MMOs are not the place for that type of power, REGARDLESS of how “rarely” its used… Rarity is not an issue, the fact that it exists is the issue. I didn’t say leave it as is and give it a cooldown. I said make it better, more rounded and THEN give it a cooldown. But no, you don’t want reasoning, you don’t want upgrades, you just want your trolly trait left alone.

This is what I mean. There’s no middle ground with you people. I’m not sure you even give a kitten, I think you’re just here to argue. Which is fine, I guess. it’s fun, but eh this specific topic is just getting pretty old. We’ve been saying the same thing back and forth for 11 pages and just increasingly getting more rude. I’m done.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

I dont’ care if it’s good. I don’t play engi and I’d be fine with my own suggested change. (Perhaps 60 sec CD instead? Not sure it’d have to be tested, maybe not even.) But I just don’t like anything in the game to be immune to another build. Just isn’t good for the game.

What also isn’t good for the game is entire teams being wiped by two condition spam classes nuking an entire point without that team actually having a chance. (Double epidemic anybody?)

I’m not going to disagree with that… I never discussed or even defended the current meta… There’s a lot of things that are over the top. Necros ESPECIALLY conditions are very over the top… But they’re also going to be nerfed as said by a dev, so I don’t see your point…

echo.2053:

ronpierce.2760:

Right? I mean if no one uses it, why do you guys care if we ask for it to be changed a bit in functionality from immunity to a cooldown but a little stronger (clearing condies too). I mean, who’d know?

oh my no…..your already complaining about a rarely used trait with very specific viability that has only shown up really during this condition meta….which its still rarely used.

Then suggesting for it to clear conditions, when there’s already claims that we already have excessive condition clearing…….your just trying to get our class nerf, we already get nerfed directly and indirectly every patch

Just shut up already… I gave (as Google said) an over powered acceptable alternative that’s stronger… I don’t care when it’s used, how it’s used, 100% immunity to an entire build is NOT okay in a game, get it? Do you have any sense of balance or developing a proper game? If it’s not used, then just get over it. No one will mind.

Why not just let it be a Power-based ability instead? :/ Give power some cool love. It could be terror for powermancers.

No, it’s not a counter. A lot of condi removal and cleanse at 25% and wiping them clean with an elixir is a counter. Immunity to is not a counter. Again with the whole (even if its “more OP”) Perma power damage IMMUNITY under 25% and the answer being burst hard enough from 26%→0 or get help from a condi from, it’s just not acceptable answers. It’s not a counter. It’s a total wall. Even if you can “stack condies at 30%” if its possibly to mass wipe them off (which it is) it becomes less of a counter and just a broken mechanic.

I dont’ care if it’s good. I don’t play engi and I’d be fine with my own suggested change. (Perhaps 60 sec CD instead? Not sure it’d have to be tested, maybe not even.) But I just don’t like anything in the game to be immune to another build. Just isn’t good for the game.

google.3709:

@sorrow
maybe so, what I saw on the vid was an unexperienced bunker necro with low condi dmg and no terror vs a bunker engi running elixir C (no one really runs it) on a 1v1 server during a staged fight, from an edited video.

and no one really runs AR, but that doesn’t mean the class should be nerfed because 2 terrible players one night got owned by someone running these traits on a hotjoin. a game shouldn’t be balanced around the lack of skill and QQ from a few

So to clear some stuff up, I didn’t check his build prior, he did have Shamans (hence neither of us dying) but even then I was never in any danger of his damage. My point wasn’t so much to prove much other than how under a certain , he’d do no damage to me. The thing is, if he used Rabid and I got to 25 and used C, he’d do no damage to me AND be easier to kill off… So there’s that…

Secondly, I’m a little sick of the bullkitten about it being staged, it wasn’t. It wasn’t edited either except sped up, then I recorded his comments afterward, then the “staged” part was me just showing that even under 25% hp with condi+ duration when he hit me it didn’t apply the conditions, so it wasn’t staged… It was informational. Additionally, I had no idea what spec he had. All I knew was he ran conditions, so I asked him to fight me, that’s all it was. I wasn’t expecting this to be the debate of the century or I’d have put a bit more thought into it.

More over, I did run this in a tPvP and won, didn’t die once, held Mine the entire game (except letting it decap once when I went to drop a supply crate on middle because the team desparately needed middle) but then I went and got it right back. The team was Warrior, Thief, Mesmer and an MM necro (5th escapes me). I began uploading it but after 4% after 20 mins I realized how silly it even was to post any move videos of it working because you people are defending something “no one even runs”. You’re all being ridiculous to even ever THINK having 100% IMMUNITY, (not an edge) to ANY build at ANY point with no Cooldown, is just beyond me. I’m all for balance, I don’t care about your trait, I’ll even buff it. If it was something like…

“When dropping below 30% hp, lose all conditions and gain Protection and Condition Immunity for 8 seconds, but have a 40 second Cooldown, I’d be all for that. Know why? It helps vs melee, doesn’t require C since no one runs it and its obviously completely useless, and it gives you that window to recover from Conditions (while even fully removing them all), but you’re not IMMUNE to an entire build forever under 25%. You people defending it aren’t even TRYING to come to that realization or middle ground that has been offered so many times. You’re just complaining and griping because people want a trait that “no one runs” to be changed a bit so it isn’t mindlessly immortal to another TYPE of build.

You’re all very childish, rude and horrible at coming to a common/middle ground. The way you guys defend it, you’re not defending a move “no one uses” you’d defending a trait you abuse and don’t want nerfed. If it’s no big deal to you, then why are you even putting so much effort into this?

Right? I mean if no one uses it, why do you guys care if we ask for it to be changed a bit in functionality from immunity to a cooldown but a little stronger (clearing condies too). I mean, who’d know?

So, just for the fun of it I wanted to share an idea I had that I thought would be tons of fun for Necromancers to play with. The idea is basically a Kit, now I made this an elite, not because I want it to be over powered and not because I want it to only have limited use, but so that necromancers weren’t in danger of having to have too many forms to worry about. Given this style of elite, they would have to worry about 2 weapons, a DS and elite “kit”, which would be 4, so roughly the same as a 3 kit Engineer or an Elementalist. That said, I think this would be a really cool idea. I even have a photoshoop picture to give a rough idea. Again this was just for fun, but heck, just tell me what you think.

(Elite) Flesh Mutation.
Mutation. The necromancer Mutates their arms into the form of those of a flesh beast, unlocking devastating attacks.

Abilities (Just rough ideas, really.)
1. Gashing Slash – Slashes an enemy dealing damage and applying 1 stack of bleed for 3 sec. 2% LF gain.
->Barb Rip – follows up with an offhand slash dealing damage and applying poison. 2% LF gain.
->Feast – Attacks with both arms dealing heavier damage, siphoning a small amount of HP. Gains 4% LF.

2. Predatory Lunge – 1/4 cast. 10 second cooldown. Lunges at the enemy following with a powerful two armed slash.

3. Devour – 1/2 cast. 15 sec Cooldown. Lakitten your enemy devouring their life. Deals moderate damage, heals the user. Gains 8% LF.

4. Flesh Maul – 2.5 sec channel. 25 Second Cooldown – Rapidly slash the enemy dealing moderate damage per hit (4x hit), each hit removes a random boon. (No root, damage is decent, not Hundred Blades like.)

5. Bide – 3 sec channel. 40 second cooldown. Lift your flesh arms, blocking attacks. Each successful block grants 6 seconds of Might. (1 per second per target.)

And it’d look like this, roughly: (Tell me what you think)