And it’s true, the wings aren’t something for elite players only. But that doesn’t mean it’s for everyone.
The clear implication from anets statements and indeed the way the league has been set up says that anet intended that if you work hard enough you should get them. The matchmaking since S2 has worked against that.
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What gaming studio does this?
You have to understand that the creators of this game aren’t players. They make games, but they don’t play them. By playing games I mean playing a whole bunch of games of different genres. Analyzing what works in them and what kind of things would create good gameplay. Anet doesn’t do this. It’s the reason why most of the stuff they do looks like it’s straight from brainstorming session.
Clearly you have never worked in the gaming industry. I’ll tell you hands down, not only do employees play the games they create… they also play other games in the genres they do enjoy. A player who likes fps will ikely play fps games, but that doesn’t mean they don’t play racing games, mmo’s or mobile games. I’ve worked for gaming studios for 7 years and the amount of players who work there in there own field of expertise (whether art, programming, communications, marketing, hell even ops and finance have a passion for games)
Looking at WvW development and the original iteration of the DBL its pretty clear that the WvW designers took no notice at all of other similar games and what is best in practice.
The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.
Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.
Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.
It is clear that DBL is going to stay in the game due to the current vote.
Anet, don’t even make a poll about whether to rotate the BLs or have simultaneous BLs. The risk is too great of some weird poll snafu. Just make it 1 DBL and 2 ABL. You know that’s the right choice so just do it!
I endorse this message. Just do it Tyler.
This change wouldn’t be so bad if they had just communicated about it properly, but no. Apparently they have learned nothing from the days when they changed “karma”
Anet are terrible in this regard. They clearly don’t document and change processes when mistakes are made.
First off, I don’t know if this is the correct forum to be posting this in.
Anyway, I took the recently released poll about whether or not to keep the Desert Borderlands. I noticed the question wasn’t “should we keep the Desert Borderlands,” but rather “should we get rid of the Desert Borderlands?” Consequentially, the answer choices are “No, don’t get rid of them” and “Yes, get rid of them.” I fear this is potential for poll takers to select the opposite answer to what they actually think, possibly skimming over the question and answers, seeing “No,” and associating a negative response with Desert Borderlands, and therefore thinking they are voting to get rid of it but actually voting to keep it.
Its pretty clear even glancing at it. As it stands the DBL is in the game and will be rotated in to replace ABL at some point. Therefore the poll reflects the current circumstances and what anet propose to do.
By my measure of activity (kills + capture volume), activity started decreasing after ABL was reintroduced. What measure of activity are you using?
Have you posted that analysis? I would be interested in seeing the results.
Its pretty clear that there is sufficient support to keep the desert maps in some form.
A quarterly rotation will likely result in a large portion of players sitting out depending on which maps are being employed.
Allowing different borderlands to use different maps during the same match may lead to balance problems.
So long as there is a rotation of the maps I don’t see a problem in terms of balance. Its not as though the mode is balanced anyway.
You missed the point. The matchmaker is deliberately stacking one team significantly stronger than the other. That is inherently unfair.
The assertion was made that the system would self level, since only players of similar skill levels should remain in a given range.
That idea has failed to pan out. It’s logically unsound and should be abandoned.
Those players have not in fact moved on. The population has been reduced to the point that they are being recycled through a larger and larger pip range. Thus, they get to use me over and over as a punching bag. Advancement doesn’t change it because the matchmaker has to keep expanding the pip range.
So you’re saying it’s a player population problem.
The matchmaker doesn’t mostly match enemy teams with a similar mmr it relies more on pip range. The problem was worse in S2 but this season appears to still be having a problem because its still not exactly matching teams by mmr although there is more restriction in terms of mmr range in S3. The rationale behind the system is just wrong headed and they should just go back to S1 matchmaking but as is typical with anet they stubbornly refuse to admit they they made a mistake. S1 had issues but the system is fairer. A solo q would also help.
I didn’t play in Season 1 (Didn’t feel like competing in Ranked), so I can’t speak on it. It’s interesting that I’ve seen some people that did take part in it, say it was the worst season for MM and the others saying it was the best.
The arguments I heard for it being the worst, were that people got “carried by better players”, to divisions that they “shouldn’t be in”. I’m using quotations because those are the things I’ve seen some people describe it with, as like I said I didn’t take part in Season 1, so I can’t really speak on it. Of course that was also when the notorious Mesmer/Chrono Bunker Build was dominating too.
People got carried due to smurfing in S1 which was fixed in S2 and is a separate problem to actual matchmaking. The majority of the complaints in S1 were from high level players because it was slightly harder to climb the tiers. However if anet did what they did for S3 and started players in tiers relative to where they finished the previous season it probably wouldn’t have been as much of a problem. Of course S1 created the problem that those who smurfed their way to legendary have an unreasonably high mmr anet could fix this by resetting mmr but they refuse to, which is another indication of anets stubborn refusal to admit they were wrong.
OP should read some of the other threads on this his answer is contained within, anet weer pretty much forced into doing this poll. As to why this granular poll driven approach in general were you not here around the time HOT launched? It was an unmitigated disaster for WvW.
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We were told it needed 75% in total from the start of the poll, and yet 30% chose to keep the 3 month rotation instead of going with the 2/1. Whether that was a legit 30% that really wanted the rotation, or if it involved a group of disgruntled players who were trying to sabotage that poll, because they were under the impression they could vote out the desert bl in a future poll, who knows.
The poll is here to vote it out, and they can see for themselves now, it’s not going to win.
So now I believe the poll for rotation will come up again, this time without the chance to vote out the desert borderland in the future, are those 30% that voted for 3 month rotation going to change their mind?
The original poll was very badly worded, I believe many players misinterpreted it. But I would hope that anet also review their 75% requirement, especially when they’ve shown with the previous poll to the current one that they are prepared to treat the polls as guidelines. Rotating DBL in for 3 months would be a disaster, far better to have mixed BLs.
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Again, JQ has a large dormant population, accurately speaking, a large casual populations.
JQ is not BG, not many of the population came back to the game.
Sorry but PvP badges are earned in PvP and that is where they should stay.
Legendaries are earnt in PvE and that’s where they should stay. They’re also produce a lot more visual clutter than a static badge next the name.
Do you see how logical that is? Neither do I. Seems like a logical idea to cater to everyone by adding a toggle button.
(I’m annoyed but actually thankful I don’t need to sit in 20 min ques for ranked anymore)
Legendaries are weapons, which are required in WvW, its a bit different. Badges are irrelevant.
I’m just gobsmacked that they even put that poll up. You don’t just make all that content, pull it from the game for improvements after complaints and then actually say to the players ’A’ight, can we delete this then?’
This is meant to be a triple A gaming studio. There should be no room for the word ‘quit’ in this scenario! The only things we should be being asked is whether we want them to focus their efforts on improving DBL, Alpine or Eye first!
They were kind of forced into it by the vocal minority. At least with the apparent result the minority can’t claim to be in the majority. It will essentially shut the debate about retaining the DBL down completely one way or the other.
You know what the funny thing is? The silence from ANETs side. They are active with wvw polls (which are completely useless in my opinion), yet this change, which upsetted many people remains unadressed. I always wonder why is it to hard for them to actually communicate with the players? Also, the solution to this “debacle” is really easy
They are very selective in their communication.
Some text
Map still isn’t going away.
No but I can bet a lot of players are lol.
Players really can’t argue if a poll like this doesn’t go their way.
I think the prices are reasonable given the currencies in PvE take a while to grind.
The matchmaking has basically been the same since season one with minor changes.
It hasn’t been the same, S2 had a major change and S3 has iterated on the S2 matchmaking.
I didn’t realize every patch had to have a pvp update.
The mode has continuing major issues and is losing players to a competitor so yeah fixes are needed.
You missed the point. The matchmaker is deliberately stacking one team significantly stronger than the other. That is inherently unfair.
The assertion was made that the system would self level, since only players of similar skill levels should remain in a given range.
That idea has failed to pan out. It’s logically unsound and should be abandoned.
Those players have not in fact moved on. The population has been reduced to the point that they are being recycled through a larger and larger pip range. Thus, they get to use me over and over as a punching bag. Advancement doesn’t change it because the matchmaker has to keep expanding the pip range.
So you’re saying it’s a player population problem.
The matchmaker doesn’t mostly match enemy teams with a similar mmr it relies more on pip range. The problem was worse in S2 but this season appears to still be having a problem because its still not exactly matching teams by mmr although there is more restriction in terms of mmr range in S3. The rationale behind the system is just wrong headed and they should just go back to S1 matchmaking but as is typical with anet they stubbornly refuse to admit they they made a mistake. S1 had issues but the system is fairer. A solo q would also help.
Your eyes must have stamp, JQ was very high during last week, I also never once seen JQ drop to high.
Thats very high after they lowered the cap with the linkages. The week before the linkage JQ slipped to high.
That’s good to hear but now they are very high last week which means they must have a lot of dormant populations.
Also, I doubt they dropped the cap since the cap seems universal than individual server, because there were a lot of medium servers last week. Some of which were high before the link and now medium.
They stated they lowered the cap JQ was at high under normal cap then very high last week under lowered cap.
Source?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-Beta/first#post6113231
One thing that is clear is that there should be a solo q.
I disagree with OP they are relevant in spvp only and were an eyesore in wvw.
Should be a toggle at most.
I liked seeing the badges, It gave me an idea of the skill level of players around me.Except as has been stated it says nothing about a players skill.
That assertion is an opinion only.
Its actually not not if you’ve followed how bad the PvP matchmaking has been and how its able to be exploited.
Your eyes must have stamp, JQ was very high during last week, I also never once seen JQ drop to high.
Thats very high after they lowered the cap with the linkages. The week before the linkage JQ slipped to high.
That’s good to hear but now they are very high last week which means they must have a lot of dormant populations.
Also, I doubt they dropped the cap since the cap seems universal than individual server, because there were a lot of medium servers last week. Some of which were high before the link and now medium.
They stated they lowered the cap JQ was at high under normal cap then very high last week under lowered cap.
Should be a toggle at most.
I liked seeing the badges, It gave me an idea of the skill level of players around me.
Except as has been stated it says nothing about a players skill.
I know it sucks to feel that you can play 100 games and have 0 progression, but that’s how it is, unless you improve or 4 man q
Its a couple of things: the pip system, watching yourself continually get close to the next tier or division then having a losing streak; and the reward the necessity to progress through divisions to gain the rewards.
S2 is comparably easier to rank up than S1, with enough grind that is.
No its not.
They should just have a deathmatch mode with courtyard and deathmatch versions of the other smaller maps. And we can select the mode just like for stronghold.
Don’t care, will not be watching after seeing the elitist attitudes of most of the pro league players with very few exceptions.
Im not a friend of elitism either but…thats kinda what pro leaque is for. Por leaque means maximazation. Pro leaques are the raids of pvp.
If you want bro leagues, you should probably look for community-driven tournaments.
I mean their elitist attitudes towards average players on display in ranked S2 matchmaking threads.
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Don’t care, will not be watching after seeing the elitist attitudes of most of the pro league players with very few exceptions.
Why not evenly sort MMR within a pip range instead? This would stop the silly streaks and make the games more interesting. I also think gaining 400 points in a match should not result in a pip loss. Maybe have it break the win streak but not loose pips. This will also help separate the field. Players that are out of their league will struggle to get 400 pts.
Something like this is probably what should happen but there are probably implications for queue ties for higher ranked players. Although those issues exist under the current system anyway.
Definitely shouldn’t be grindable. Instead people who reach a level where they end up with fair and even matches. The problem is that doesn’t happen for anyone no matter the level. Even after you’ve reached your own peak, the match quality is still horrible
League rank shouldn’t be grindable but the rewards should be except perhaps for titles. There’s a growing amount of feedback about separating the rewards from the pip system.
(Tier 5 Legend, 3 pips from prestige 2)
Please fix your system, Anet. That, and allow us to queue outside of HotM. We’ve only been asking for it since it went away…
This is the fixed system……….. that people are leaving hence the queues.
The achievement system is clearly set up so that anyone can get it with enough grind. All legendaries are achievable by grind rather than skill.
Or maybe the PvP one is different since it’s in, you know, PvP?
Did you ignore the first sentence? That is about the PvP achievements.
With the discussion of borderlands, I recall Mike saying that either path anet chooses (remove or not) requires alot of work to be done.
Please don’t just invite popular streamers or huge PvE players who play WvW casually. If you want to get serious constructive feedback, invite players who spent thousajds of hours in the gamemode, have used alot of siege over time, actively play WvW, etc.
They actually did, the issue is the beta tests were just PR they were never going to make substantive changes. This is the lesson the have to learn, to make changes from the beta tests even if it means delays.
Considering the fact that ANet will not change their patching on Friday nights I personally prefer Saturday ( which appears to have a pretty good population in WvW by the way at that time ). If the patch date changed to Thursday for example then Friday makes more sense.
And how many recent patches have gone through on a Friday? I cant remember the last one.
Well, blame ANET on this since they wanted everybody being capable of getting it. So it’s a bit normal that everybody expect to get it.
Where did they say that?
Anyway, it’s apparently still possible by getting ruby three times and emerald once.
The achievement system is clearly set up so that anyone can get it with enough grind. All legendaries are achievable by grind rather than skill.
There has been proof that there’s no MMR hell and such and that if you cant climb it cant be ALWAYS the fault of everyone else but you.
Wat? There’s been no proof whatsoever.
People as random as you (like me or other dude in the topic i linked) made it to legendary. Some made screenshots of every match, some made a stream. I even provided a breakdown of how all my matches went against all the premades I faced. People who started with new account, no-heart of thorns, fresh accounts, non fresh-accounts. You do not need to be pro esl material or be mmr gifted to climb.
Thats not actually proof.
- a lot of QQ comes from players being spoiled by season 1. In season 1 matchmaking was based pretty much purely on MMR, meaning a guy with low MMR could get all the way to legend having easy fights (the matchmaking tried to force everyone into 50% winrate) while players with high MMR had to win matches vs pro players just to get out of emerald.
So now you’re making up reasons why S2 matchmaking is better. Low mmr players got to legend via smurfing mainly. The S1 matchmaking could have been used quite easily with this season anti smurfing mechanism. Average and low mmr players did not have easy fights in S1 unless they were carried by high ranked groups.
There has been proof that there’s no MMR hell and such and that if you cant climb it cant be ALWAYS the fault of everyone else but you.
Wat? There’s been no proof whatsoever.
How much better is starter MMR than the veteran’s MMR you speak of? You really think starter MMR carries people? That, i’m not sure if I believe. I think any legend can take any tanked, 30 loss streak account to legend.
There is the anecdotal evidence of several players with multiple accounts consistently getting better teammates and coming up against worse opponents with their new account compared to their main account.
Lord Helseth and Malferian both mesmers
But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?
Legendaries are earned in this game by grinding and the legendary backpack achievements are essentially a reward track. If they want to make it a reward for say finishing in legendary division, fine. I wouldn’t go for it in that case but I’d still give ranked pvp a go.
I’m logging in, playing a 2 or 3 games and logging out wishing I hadn’t bothered atm. Sad for what has been one of my top 2 games since it’s launch.
So in a search for ideas: What are you all doing in game (PVP) to have Genuine Fun?
Most fun is to not log in.
I’m taking a break as well and reaping the benefits. I’ll probably give the season 1 more go but if there are no or minimal changes for next season I’m gawn with games like Overwatch starting up.
This is a great topic and I’d like to hear what other ideas people have that could incentive league play in a system where division matches skill level.
If you want to make the legendary backpack achievable by everyone by playing and grinding then remove the requirement for division crossing and simply make the relevant achievements achievable by simply playing across the 4 seasons of the year. Players would care a lot less about what division they’re in and the constant backsliding within tiers due to the inconsistency of matchmaking would not be so psychologically wearing.
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The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.
Funny thing is the way the system is set up is turning more people off pvp once they play it. If the reward achievements were a simple grind which takes a long time but is simply a steady accumulation of achievements it would be far better and less rage inducing. Because it is tied to division gain and because of the inconsistency of matchmaking and players constantly backsliding within tiers, psychologically it becomes incredibly wearing.
Consider we’re not even halfway through the year of ranked pvp yet I and a lot of people I know will probably give up pvp after this because the system makes us hate it.
New players are not always “new players”. In fact, many new accounts are alt accounts purchased by veteran high MMR players. If new accounts all started with the lowest possible MMR, do you have any idea how easy it would be to exploit the league leaderboards with a team of 5 alt accounts being played by veteran players, who are ripping through their first 30 games played with wins that look like 500-0, 500-20? They’d get placed in the top 10 without ever needing to face a team that was anywhere even near their actual skill level.
Due to the reality of such match manipulation, placing new accounts with an average MMR is the only way to kitten
then reset mmr for everyone at the beginning of a season.