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Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

To quote the OP, “The only thing a class with high burst does, is blow a set of cds and down you. From here, you can be revived by either your teammates cc mitigation+hard revive, or soft ranged revive abilities. Then, the enemy has blown his load, and you can dispatch of him.”

I’m confused by this logic. So, I should expect to get downed and I should be playing butt buddies during the whole match, where there are 3 points to capture, and only 5 of us?

This is simply in the situation that the burst built character succeeds in his goal and you fail. I’m simply observing it from the worst case scenario, since that is the way everyone here seems to look at balance.
And yes, when there are 3 points to capture, 5 of you, and you only need 2 to win. That leaves plenty of room for bringing a partner.

You know there's an issue when this is your first game of the day:

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I played a team, all but one , of rangers too..rangers must be op.

You’re joking. Rangers are not overpowered as a group and are barely good on their own. I have to be on the top of my game all the time in Tpvp to even stand a chance against most thief spammers.

I thought my sarcasm was pretty obvious there. I guess not.

Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.

What I find really funny is that ANet went on about how they wanted balance, yet they somehow let stuff like assassin signet + backstab into the game, what kind of useless testing did they do before release?

Maybe the envisioned people working together? Ie:peeling the thief or using the revive spells given?

Did they envision the thief working together with his dagger to hit you for 10-15k? Oh…. so its just other players who have to work together against the thief…. so hes like.. what? A raid boss?

Working together implies that he would also have team mates. So no, by my argument this isn’t necessarily a (1+x)v1 fight. Drawing a conclusion to an argument by implanting something that conveniences your side is a terrible way to have a decent discussion.

Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.

What I find really funny is that ANet went on about how they wanted balance, yet they somehow let stuff like assassin signet + backstab into the game, what kind of useless testing did they do before release?

Maybe the envisioned people working together? Ie:peeling the thief or using the revive spells given?

I don’t see how this argument stacks up. If it was your whole team against one thief, then sure (although peeling doesn’t work in GW2 like it does in WoW you will find), but it’s the thief plus his team against your team. You can work together but so can they.

I personally don’t have a problem with burst damage, but my view is that burst damage should take a large chunk out of your pretty quickly, it shouldn’t take you from full health to dead in just a few seconds.

Sure they can work together, but that still doesn’t mean you can’t revive or peel for your teammate. Also, I realize peeling is different, but the idea remains the same. That is, getting breathing room between you and your opponent.

Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.

What I find really funny is that ANet went on about how they wanted balance, yet they somehow let stuff like assassin signet + backstab into the game, what kind of useless testing did they do before release?

Maybe the envisioned people working together? Ie:peeling the thief or using the revive spells given?

I can agree with some of this, but pulling a thief to you doesn’t fix the fact that the thief can stealth and reacquire the target, or just stealth and blow you up.

Too much control + too many escapes + powerful cooldowns = frustrating pvp for everyone who is not that class. This is why people are up in arms about mesmers and thieves, they are put together in a better way than other classes.

I sincerely hope they tone DOWN the outliers rather than buffing everyone else up to their levels. I’d hate to see a guardian with a 12k whirling blade or an ele with 10k dragon’s tooth.

I can agree that those problems are troublesome, I wouldn’t call them OP.(not saying you were either, others do though) You can put pressure on a thief utilizing stealth through AoEs and attacks though. Thieves are given the opportunity to pick and choose fights to some extent, but this Class type And option for them isn’t uncommon in an mmo
Also, I’m not saying that they are perfectly balanced by any means, but I mean to point out the exaggeration that runs rampant through the forums

(edited by tOss.9024)

Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

No class, whatever spec, should be able to hit just about anyone with 10k+ in 1 hit. It’s just absurd.

What I find really funny is that ANet went on about how they wanted balance, yet they somehow let stuff like assassin signet + backstab into the game, what kind of useless testing did they do before release?

Maybe the envisioned people working together? Ie:peeling the thief or using the revive spells given?

PVP and OP / imba

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I just started the game and was wondering if someone could explain to me why are there so much crying about professions being overpowered?

If anyone thinks a profession is stronger, then just roll one and pvp with it. You automatically get level 80…. Unless I’m missing something entirely.

All this crying about thief and warriors etc is just stupid because if you want, you can instantly make a warrior or thief with the “overpowered” skill sets. It’s an mmo, balance isn’t going to be perfect. If you want perfect balance, perhaps rock paper scissors is more suited to you.

This type of whining is, sadly, part of the standard of mmo PvP these days.

You know there's an issue when this is your first game of the day:

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I played a team, all but one , of rangers too..rangers must be op.

Is burst damage really this bad?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I see a lot of complaints about burst damage lately. However, I haven’t found it to be as troublesome as some have made it out to be. The only thing a class with high burst does, is blow a set of cds and down you. From here, you can be revived by either your teammates cc mitigation+hard revive, or soft ranged revive abilities. Then, the enemy has blown his load, and you can dispatch of him.
So Really, what’s the big deal about burst?

"Save yourselfes!", for Guardians, needs a nerf.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Necros are one of the best condition classes not because of the one they stack, but because of their control over conditions/boons.

Weapon Set Changing during tpvp - should it be allowed

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Swapping to another weapon to use swiftness doesn’t take that long. It’s just clunky and awful to do but you feel like you have to to remain competitive.

I am not that upset about swap at the spawn zone. Swap outside the spawn zone shouldn’t be allowed.

I was talking about build swapping on the time restraint.

Weapon Set Changing during tpvp - should it be allowed

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

If you don’t think it causes imbalance, then you shouldn’t have to switch unless you want to. Implying people have to switch to perform well also implies imbalance. If a team runs a group of balanced builds, then they can counter a team switching between two extremes.
Build swapping can be viable, but not necessary, and once the meta game shifts I think more will realize this.
As with any competitive game, there will be trends of “Must dos.” This is just another trend if the moment imo.
I wouldn’t doubt you will see non-switching, fast moving, teams that take advantage of the down time needed to run a switch game At some time should switching become extremely common.

Weapon Set Changing during tpvp - should it be allowed

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

This sounds more like “I don’t want to do this, so no one else can,” issue than an actual balance issue to me. If a group is able to adapt to situations then it makes combat and the entire meta game more dynamic. Just because you don’t want to switch weapon or traits Shouldn’t mean others can’t. This isn’t creating some game Breaking imbalance. It may give some people a very small advantage, but nothing coordinated play can’t counter.

The hell it’s not. How’s is Char and Weapon swap not game breaking?
Just because you fill then need to min/max and micromanage doesnt mean it should be a requirment. And as of right now it is.

This crap is more about Rock/Paper/Scissors than it is about skill.

Why be good at one class, when you can be ok with 4 and just switch out when you get your kitten beat.

And if ANET and anyone else thinks this type of game play would work any any MLG circut they are dead wrong, it would be a complete joke.

I can here the commentators now
“ok, folks. Short commercial break while we wait for the team to switch to different chars because they werent prepared for the burst/condition/bunkers/roamers/CC/meatloaf…..o look now were back. Now it looks like they are changing the weapon sets around to better meet the situation, there should be some fighting real soon, ohh…the other team just got countered, here we go with another commercial break while that team switches to counter them.”

Explain to me how it is gamebreaking. I don’t see how locking people into builds would fix rock, paper, scissors type win/loses it would make it worse because you can’t adapt to the situation.

Weapon Set Changing during tpvp - should it be allowed

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

This sounds more like “I don’t want to do this, so no one else can,” issue than an actual balance issue to me.

From the opposite side, it sounds more like “I don’t want to make hard choices balancing my build for versatility, so let me swap on the fly so I can have everything, and make no sacrifices”.

Argument can be made both ways.

Right…but I supported my claim. Your just flipped words. There’s a difference. If that person wants to go through the trouble of changing builds he or she can. In any instance they still give something up, and face uncertainty every fight. Just because you switch builds doesn’t ensure a win. What ensures a win, in the end, is skill.

Weapon Set Changing during tpvp - should it be allowed

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

This sounds more like “I don’t want to do this, so no one else can,” issue than an actual balance issue to me. If a group is able to adapt to situations then it makes combat and the entire meta game more dynamic. Just because you don’t want to switch weapon or traits Shouldn’t mean others can’t. This isn’t creating some game Breaking imbalance. It may give some people a very small advantage, but nothing coordinated play can’t counter.

What kind of mentality is "Just don't fight the Guardians"

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Couldn’t have said it better, which is why 1v1 balance needs a good look into. Every build should have a chance at dealing with any PvP situation they encounter, not running away because they do not “counter” their opponent.

So every class should readily have a boon application, boon stripe, condition application, condition removal, stun breaker, good self heals, high defense , high damage out put, and crowd control all at the same time?

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

OP,

Your FPS comparison is flawed in that no matter what kit you use, and what gun you have, you still have to aim. If you go with a sniper kit, you need to worry about positioning, concealment, projectile falloff and wind (in some games), etc. If you are close quarter, you need to worry about mobility (strafting), aim (head, chest?) and miscellaneous effects (such as flashlight in the eyes glare). And medium range you have to worry about all that explosive goodness (frag grenades, RPGs, M203s) that are too dangerous in CQC and too short range for sniping.

But all kits share the same basic requirement – your aim has to be good, otherwise you’ll suck with every single kit.

In GW2 this is not the case. You have classes that can do almost passive damage (reflection and retaliation), classes that can do obscene damage with 3-4 keypresses (more than sufficient to kill someone), and then you have classes that have to type like mad monkeys in order to perform mediocre at best.

As an FPS example, imagine a kit that has no full-auto, but also doesn’t gain any extra range or damage. The only difference between you and the other kits is that you need to squeeze off every round manually, possibly screwing your aim, while the other guy can just hold down his mouse button and release bursts or even go full auto. In CQC, you are on uneven footing simply because of it. Similarly, imagine his gun has a 200 round drum, yours is a single shot bolt action. Who’s going to win? The guy who has to reload after every shot, or the guy who can fire 200 rounds without reloading? By this I mean class with cooldowns vs Thief with initiative.

I’m sorry, but this game is very poorly balanced right now. You have absolutely unique mechanics (initiative), classes that don’t require “aim”, and at the same time classes that require heavy “stance-dancing” (Elementalists and Engineers) that have to work extra hard just to have similar effect to someone pressing just 1 button.

Sure you have to aim, but, as with any fps, some guns have lower skill caps that help when you aren’t the best at aiming. You think the guy in metro running shotgun has to aim as well as the guy using a sv8? No, stick to the center and aim to the middle, win. However, the guy with the sv8 who isn’t getting as many kills is probably scouting down the sides and marking players. (thus the ideal of “effectiveness” balance)In battlefield 3 you can compare more than guns even.(in regards to skill cap) I mean…you don’t have to be a master gamer to wreck kitten with a tank, but you have to be pretty good to fly a jet. Also, the bolt action user could win as long as he was better.

In regards to, “obscene damage; mediocre at best” again, the classes are still sacrificing one thing or the other. The thief doesn’t bring much for his team, and the ele brings more for the team and less for his uber-big number fetish. Eles and engineers are working harder because they are contributing to more people, or damaging more people at a time. If a thief downs you fast, you can be ressed. There are several cast revives and the regular hard-revives to use. If an ele, engi, or necro, runs up to a point you can be sure they will have better point control than a thief will.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Constantly was a generous word, I’ll admit. However, they can finish their own combo fields, granting boons to others around them. Also, their damage is typically an AoE or a conic output. As opposed to the single damage output of HS. HS really isn’t the ridiculous, awe-inspiring skill people make it out to be.

Edit: they also have utility skills that benefit the team as a whole, and offer more than simple damage output.

(edited by tOss.9024)

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

That would make sense if HS were just dps. But it isn’t. It’s also a gap closer AND a leap finisher. Those combo fields the ele is laying down? They mean nothing if you don’t have finishers. HS is a spammable finisher. Pretty nifty.

Kind of grasping at straws there. An ele is constantly finishing his own combo fields, providing himself and others boons or apply condition. The HS is a spammable finisher yes, but is useless as a finisher without a combo field that has to be generated by someone else. (unless the poison field from his ranged is up, then he would only be reapplying an already active condition) So said thief is not generating more without others helping. So his effectiveness remains the same as it was.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Yes, in theory balance is more than your 1v1 capabilities. That is why an Elementalist is actually quite popular in high-ranking games.

However in practice this isn’t how players evaluate balance. They tend to regard 1v1 capabilities as an indicator of power. And that has quite some merit. Nobody expects to constantly win 1v2s unless they are really confident in their abilities.

And logically, a game that is balanced in 1v1, will also by extension be relatively balanced around 2v2 and 3v3 situations. Especially without dedicated support roles like Healers etc.

Ultimately people will always assess balance based on 1v1 performances and developers would be wise to accept that. It’s much easier to balance out a handful of support skills around group situations than it is to balance entire classes around various situations.

A game balanced around 1v1 then promotes “sameness” throughout the professions available. When you balance to 1v1, then each class has to have the utility to react to every single situation. Then, you get professions that are all effectively the same with only different spell names and animations.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Sorry, you cannot compare HS spam to an Ele playing to it’s potential, HS spam is not a viable build and is not playing the Thief to it’s max potential. A Thief playing to it’s full potential and an Ele playing to it’s full potential are not a million miles away like people like to make out. It may be harder, but it’s still not hard.

I didn’t claim he was running HS. Backstab build is, effectively, one the maximum potential burst builds of the thief. I don’t understand how you are nullifying my argument here. You are acknowledging a skill cap difference, and difference in effectiveness.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Eh, you missed a little nuance. I suppose it comes from the fact I wasn’t clear. Each profession, according to Anet, offers you a choice of play style. So a thief is naturally more damage oriented than say a warrior. So their maximum damage potential is higher than that of a warrior, however, the skill to obtain that maximum number should come with relatively equal consequences and be equally as difficult. Now, I said relatively because whats squishy for a warrior is not the same as squishy for a thief due to different mechanics, but if you go full damage, you should have to do so at the loss of other options. This should sound familiar, because it is exactly what you said. But, they should be equally difficult to obtain that relative position among that given profession. Your desire ought to be that a thief, although more damage oriented, shouldn’t max out in their respective field with such a low skill cap. Same can be said with any profession trying to do their thing the best. Example a guardian probably needs to have his skill cap raised for the amount of defense he can offer.

Well, I don’t see anything wrong with the high damage output being relatively easy to achieve because it is relatively easy to counter. A thief runs in, and blows his load on a player. Said player is downed, I cast signet of undeath and rez downed player. I have effectively countered his easy combo with an easy solution.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

It’s a problem when one class can achieve the same thing with remarkably less effort. Your elementalist example doesn’t address that because your whole point is the elementalist is doing more than just dps even though it takes a lot more work.

Things like HS spam are bad for the game. They allow bad players to be more effective than they should be. Every class should be more like the elementalist and less like the thief.

I think you misunderstood the point of the example. The fact that the elementalist is doing more, while aiming for the same goal(damage output) is reason for it to be harder to do. Why should the thief have to do the button gymnastics that the elementalist is doing when they are only downing a single target? The elementalist is providing for his team at the same time, so why should it be easier for him to do high damage?

1v1 Duels?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I’m wary of the implementation of duels to be honest. You think the imba cries are bad now? Just wait until the dueling system comes.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

You know, I would normally agree with you. The problem is that this stems from Anet’s own wording. They wanted every profession to be viable. Therefore, in my mind, to rectify this each class should have easy to play weapon sets and hard to play sets. But each and every profession should have similar skill caps. To achieve the maximum damage allowed shouldn’t come with a remarkably low skill cap, this should be true for all professions.

While I am initially inclined to agree with you, I think that the implementation of this would be extremely challenging. Like I said in the second point, usually the profession working “harder” for the damage output is also giving more to the group. I think that classes giving more should be harder to do that with. My necro runs a power based build and I don’t do as much damage as a thief, nor is it as simple. However, I am also utilizing AoE damage and condition/boon control that is effective for point control and influencing more of the fight as a whole. So shouldn’t it then be harder for me to do large amounts of damage?

I believe that saying the “same” effect is a fallacy in this game. There are so many other variables in each and every situation.

Skill cap and Effort:reward; this isn't a new thing.

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

When most people here discuss balance, I keep seeing the discussion of skill cap come up. People compare Effort to Reward and point to some class having to less to achieve the same effect. I see some major flaws in this with regard to balance.

First, high/low skill cap is commonplace among nearly every competitive game. Shooters have easier to use guns, rpgs have easier classes, fighters easier characters, etc. Saying that a skill cap difference is imbalanced is untrue, as players have the option to devote themselves to reach the skill cap to be effective. Note, this does lead to many people rolling particular classes. However, number of played professions does not necessarily have a direct correlation with balance. Just because more people play something because they think something is OP, doesn’t make it so.

Second, while some professions may have to put forth less effort to achieve a particular goal(ie damage output) they are often not providing something that other ones do. Or, they cannot provide it as well as others can. Take, for example, the thief and the elementalist. A thief can run a backstab build and do less to achieve maximum damage output than that of the elementalist. However, that is all the thief contributes is a quick downed state. (note that downed state does not mean a kill, meaning that if a team mate is able to revive you the thief has effectively done nothing) An ele, while going through his damage “rotation” will be utilizing combo fields that are providing boons to nearby allies. The ele is bringing more to the team as a whole than the thief is. Each profession provides effectiveness in a different way. To look at balance in regards to a single aspect(ie damage, longevity) in certain situations is detrimental to balance as a whole.

Lastly, and to digress slightly from the original subject, we should stop considering balance in such limited perspective. There is much more to it than 1v1, and the numbers above the enemies’ head. There is a group synergy to be had among professions, as this is a team game.

Damage should interrupt someone rezzing

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

For future reference, you will be more likely to be answered, or your feedback considered, if you don’t start off calling the entire system crap, and being just a general kitten about it.

New Executions

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Well, I like the idea but perhaps they wanted the animations to be easily recognized for team Play reasons.

What's The Point of PvP?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I play for fun, and despise the gear treadmill so this game was a breath of fresh air for me. That’s the point, fun. Why can’t people just enjoy things for what they are anymore?

I got 99 problems and a thief ain't one!

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

As a necromancer, I have never been killed in 3 seconds by any thief. Ever. I dont use this build, but an a/f ;d/d Power build and I do just fine. I don’t see why people want to say he can’t survive, why would he lie?

ETA on Arena?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

When it’s ready.

Why you have to adjust down state (screen inside)

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

@tOss:
are you actually believing what you’re writing? It’s absolute normal for you to get downed by someone downed when having 7k hp left?
And are you serious about attacking the rogue? Not only does he goes into stealth after using smoke bomb but the other mesmer will kill you much faster with his rogue than you can kill the rogue with your auto attack.
And please stop saying he should have attacked the downed mesmer – he had time to aa maybe 1-2 times before he ueses his teleport. I don’t know how much knowledge you have about targets which teleport away and are invis for a couple of seconds but good luck with attacking such a target without any AoE.

I didn’t say it was absolutely normal, I said it was completely avoidable. I mean for him to kill the rogue before he gets downed. As a mesmer he has plenty of options to damage the rogue. Plus, if he was observant he could have dodge the attack. The rogue has a good duration between each, plenty of time to finish a downed opponent or heal.
Just because someone is downed doesn’t mean you can just omgstomp them. Even if he teleports you can just target him again.
Just once, analyze a situation. instead of giving up and just saying it’s broken, Use your head and think of an alternate approach to a situation. kitten

Why you have to adjust down state (screen inside)

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

So last night I was doing random sPvP on my Mesmer and ran into another Mesmer at some point. It was a pretty clean 1v1 and I was lucky enough to put him in downed state with ~7k HPs left.

I ran up to him to finish him, though obviously he ported away the first time. At this point I was still doing fine, except for the fact that I was slowed and he had ported to a location that would take me a couple of seconds to reach.

I got there with reasonably high health, when suddenly I died to his Illusionary Rogue just before the stomping animation was about to go through.

Thinking about this part, I am sure there are those who will say “fair game, downed state is supposed to work like that” and those who think “losing 7k+ HPs while the other guy is downed is over the top” and I am fine with accepting both as valid opinions.

At this point, however, people probably don’t realize it, I had already lost this battle, simply because I downed the guy first. His Illusionary Rogue was out (downed state #3), while mine obviously wasn’t as I had just entered downed state. This is the part that I doubt anybody could be claiming to be intended.

How can I lose a fight, because I down somebody first. Why would he ever have an advantage over me, because of that. That’s simply irrational:

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/4l3qicld/Downedaintsound.png

Well, you didn’t have to stomp him. Stomping carries with it the risk of taking more damage. You could have just attacked him and killed the rogue when he spawned.( you knew it was coming) also, since you did down him first, if you would have done damage you would have an advantage. You weren’t dead when the rogue hit you, you were just down. You could have teleported away from the rogue and killed him, granting you the revive.
Sure, downed state has some problems( eles being the most prominent) but this was entirely your fault and had nothing to do with improper balance.

Melee useless in WvWvW

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

There are no melee classes. Warrior does more damage with ranged abilities than necromancer does with any weapon at all. If “melee classes” are kitten, even though they can do more damage then I can, I want to become a melee class.

There’s more to the necro than big numbers.

looking for the right server

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

What servers are typically active 7-12 central time? I’m looking for a server I can Play wvw on that won’t always be overrun during my playtime. I don’t care about who’s winning, only who is active.

Source Filmmaker? Or something similar for GW2?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I agree they should release their own. However, source film maker is, I believe, directly tied to the source engine. So I don’t see them implementing that particular one.

I desire more things to do at max level

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I think you’ve simply devoted time to a game and, without understanding this was not geared towards your preferred playstyle, are now seeing it won’t meet your expectations. There’s nothing wrong with players who prefer the gear treadmill, this just isn’t the game for that.

GW2 genre likenesses to a hack n slash

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Well, every mmo has mobs(typically those you encounter throughout leveling) that you can easily dispatch. Almost any mmo allows you to auto attack your way through content as long as you stray from the more challenging mobs.
Perhaps you should run some dungeons and do some tpvp before you draws such a bold conclusion.

Sorrow's Furnace vs Darkhaven vs Sanctum of Rall - WUVWUV

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I’m curious about the whole night-capping blame game as well. It’s not like any other server would just join, say “oh they aren’t on, lets just leave everything how it is and wait.”
It’s just another part of the cycle. “Prime time” ,the way people talk about it, implies that there are moments when people should be inactive or they’re "dishonorable or not as good. Imo, every minute of WvWvW is prime time.

sPvP Class Statistics over 39 games!

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Interesting data actually.

Edit: pointlessly telling OP data was skewed after OP already acknowledged this removed.

No, you don't get to play "however you want."

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I work, go to college, and have a child to look after. Why turn this game into another job, logging on to rush to the end when you can just enjoy the ride; however long it takes? Again, why try to play a game in a manner it wasn’t meant to be played, then get upset because you can’t do it?
“I don’t get to play…” this just shows you stopped looking at this as a game.

removing impedements to game play won’t ever change how you play your game. It just won’t.

If they removed diminishing returns, how would this affect your ability to play the game you currently play? It wouldn’t. At all. And If I’m not mistaken, the greatest source of complaints is on level 80’s complaining about diminishing returns… Like I said above, i give Anet benefit of doubt that this is completely unintended for a legit player to start a large event chain and by the end, get penalised for it with diminshed returns.

How in the green earth are you or anyone else able to argue for a system as broken as that.

That is like going on a rollercoaster ride that slows down every 5 seconds and by the 15th second, it stops completely and you have to get off the carriage, wait 30 minutes (or however long) before it starts again.

You are arguing that this is the way it was intended by design. i would argue that this was not by design at all. In fact, it was designed counter to that. The slowdown and forcing you to get out of the carriage is an artificial rule enforced on a system designed to be run completely through in 1 minute instead of start/stop over the next 1 hour before you complete the ride.

Just look at the whoel design of the game. It is counter, completely counter, to your arguements. the rules they are enforcing are working against the actual design which is why we have broken diminishing returns on legit activities.

As I said a couple posts above you, I’m not saying that DR couldn’t be toned down. I’m open to different views.(as I stated in the OP) It does seem from some posts that the leash is somewhat tight. However, I know others who don’t have a huge problem with it. Again, they have access to the empirical data, not I. Which is why I argue to let the developer work towards a better, sustainable system. And, rather then being so obtuse about the matter, be patient. I don’t think that a player shouldn’t offer some insight(after all, there is an entire subforum for this) but one should be more considerate of the people doing all of the work.

No, you don't get to play "however you want."

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I give Anet the benefit of the doubt because there’s no way any rational developer would purposely give the legit player diminishing returns before he is actually able to complete an event chain. Just no way it’s intended.

At my current pace in Orr, unless they give us a panel that tells us specifically “you are about to hit DR, please stop playing” , I will continue to believe that this was entirely unintended. When they put the anti-farm code in, I think they had no idea how this would actually affect regular gameplay. If they did, and still made that choice, then that’s just horrible.

Even with the recent “This content has been disabled” spam, I’ll still give them benefit of the doubt but I’m not going to give them a clear green pass like OP; which is just burying head in sand.

While I can agree that the DR can be toned down(which I would assume will happen if they see it fit) you tone still implies that all of these players have no choice in finding a different way to approach the game until we hear more about the system. I’m not burying my head in the sand, this is their game. They have access to the data that allows them to see exactly how many players are hitting DR, how often, and it is best left to them to decide, by these data sets exactly how to tune their system. I have yet hit the DR in a matter that has been detrimental to my play. But I don’t grind. But, if you hit DR, play an alt, do some exploring.

They haven’t even announced a slew of new content. Why so hurried?

No, you don't get to play "however you want."

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I work, go to college, and have a child to look after. Why turn this game into another job, logging on to rush to the end when you can just enjoy the ride; however long it takes? Again, why try to play a game in a manner it wasn’t meant to be played, then get upset because you can’t do it?
“I don’t get to play…” this just shows you stopped looking at this as a game.

No, you don't get to play "however you want."

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

In light of the DR implementation, I would like to offer my opinion on the most common response to DR, “if I want to play this way, I should be allowed to do so.” No, you shouldn’t. Now, before you fly into fits of rage and ignore the rest of this post, please read the entire post and carefully consider the discussion.

I’m all for being able to play your class however you wish, that is, you want to build glass cannon, go for it, you want to support? Please, do so. Even other in things, players deserve a faucet of freedom and choice as to how they play the game. However, regardless of even my opinion, mechanics and player option is entirely up to the developer.
After all, this is their vision, their hard work, and I am perfectly fine with conforming to whatever rules they see fit to implement to keep me from harming their vision. If I happen to come across something in the future that I disagree with, I may ask why they are doing it, and if their explanation doesn’t settle with mine I will move on to another game. I wouldn’t hold a grudge, or call doom upon their game, just move on. But I digress.
I feel that some players, not just in this game, have an unusual habit of attempting to morph a game that is not designed for their play style, into something more fitting for them. However, this again goes against the vision of the developers and the players more aligned with the original vision for the game. For example, would you attend a theme park, and throw a fit because you couldn’t ride their roller coaster backwards? Or if they asked you to get off the ride after the fourth time you didn’t get up after it stopped?
This isn’t designed to be a grind-your-face-off K-MMO for the old school power gamer. Nor is it an exercise in the masochistic, tired old gear treadmill we MMORPGers are so used to running on. In other words, the DR system is on course for preventive measure for the player to resort to these tired designs, rather than trying out the refreshing take the developers worked so hard on. What is so wrong with that?
If you want to grind for hours, there are other games that allow you to do so. Games that let you farm one material to flood the auction house with, etc. But please, don’t try to turn this game into that, there are players(a good number of them) that don’t want to see this game go that direction.

TL;DR : You, the player, are experiencing the developers vision. One should be willing to subject themselves to certain rules to allow it to remain intact.

Please, offer a counter-argument. Perhaps I’m missing something here, and I would gladly read a well expressed counter to my opinion. Maybe you can change my view?

Edit: I do understand that the DR system is a preventive measure against bots. This is however, I response to the players up in arms against the system. I do not speak for Anet by any means, and this is simply my opinion, my way to look at this system and the argument that many players submit in response to it.

(edited by tOss.9024)

A Rational Balance Thread

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

The main niche I see for necro right now is shutting down guardian. Which in the current meta with every single team running a guardian isn’t all that bad. But what makes it problematic is although you can shut down a guardian very well, solo you can’t really kill them. I mean you can but it takes long enough that you can’t do it before they get backup. Meaning you are only really useful running with another class who can do the dps to bring down the guardian while you neutralize them.

Conditionmancer right now weak in 1v1 because it only has access to one damaging condition. Necro really needs access to either burning or confusion as well to make it decent at anything besides shutting down guardians in a group situation.

I do agree we need one more damage condition, perhaps traitable within the condition dmg tree.confusion would be awesome for a conditionmencer playstyle.

How long should a developer be given to get launch bugs ironed out?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Right, so you go to a restaurant you know is generally good, and order something, the food smells rotten, the table you sat down at wasn’t even cleaned from the previous visitors, and when you ask for a cup of coffee it’s cold and tastes like tar.

You complain but the other customers say “oh, it’s just a sad critic who doesn’t know what he’s saying”.

And the restaurant owners think “well, people still come by and I make money, I don’t see what’s the problem”

Yay![/quote]

This is an awful analogy.

How long should a developer be given to get launch bugs ironed out?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now.
MMO games are inherently glitched, whether it be quests, classes, etc. Any game so massive in size has problems. It’s ridiculous to expect them to iron out all, or most, glitches within a certain time frame. If you honestly believe this, than you have zero experience in programming. You don’t just fix one variable or line and everything is done, and if you do you risk bugging something else.
I’d like to know how big your sample size is on the “large” player base that is upset with the DR implementation. Sure, some people are but these forums, unless suddenly we have thousands of people signing threads, is no base for the players has a whole.

I don’t understand the “fix this soon or I’ll leave” and “this game is doomed” talk. If you enjoy the game, then look past the issues and give the developers the support they deserve for working so hard to give you such a quality product. (and yes this is a great, quality launch by MMO standards) It isn’t an mmo, but Morrowind is considered one of the best rpgs of all time. You know what else it’s considered? One of the most bug filled ones. But the community looks past the bugs, and enjoys the game they were given.
Lastly, Anet has been awesome about communication, you should pay more attention.

I am not asking for miracles use some of that $90 I spent and gems and the billion or so they made from box sales and spend $7.25 a hr to to hire a few people and make a bot banning team. And remove the stupid DR and I will over look any other flaw in the game. Matter of fact check all my posts I haven’t made a single post about a broken game mechanic other then getting crap loot out of finishing the personal story.

My post was directed at the op.

A Rational Balance Thread

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

I play necro as main, have done through-out all betas. You say condition control, and hint towards epidemic, which imo (and quite a few others) is a trash skill, and incredibly over-rated. Necro can get upto around 17 staks of bleed at a peak, and then maintain around 10-12. Compare this to rangers/thieves who can stack 20+ in a few seconds while also doing decent raw damage. However much I want to, I cannot see any role for a necro in the current meta, they offer nothing another class doesn’t do better.

You’ve been playing necro for that long, and still haven’t discovered there are more to us than epidemic and bleed stacks? As far as condition/boon control goes we can: AoE remove 3 boons on a low cooldown, turn boons into conditions, then spread then to everyone(especially helpful against guardians) send our conditions away,(and when its fixed, remove then from allies consistently) and more.

How long should a developer be given to get launch bugs ironed out?

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now.
MMO games are inherently glitched, whether it be quests, classes, etc. Any game so massive in size has problems. It’s ridiculous to expect them to iron out all, or most, glitches within a certain time frame. If you honestly believe this, than you have zero experience in programming. You don’t just fix one variable or line and everything is done, and if you do you risk bugging something else.
I’d like to know how big your sample size is on the “large” player base that is upset with the DR implementation. Sure, some people are but these forums, unless suddenly we have thousands of people signing threads, is no base for the players has a whole.

I don’t understand the “fix this soon or I’ll leave” and “this game is doomed” talk. If you enjoy the game, then look past the issues and give the developers the support they deserve for working so hard to give you such a quality product. (and yes this is a great, quality launch by MMO standards) It isn’t an mmo, but Morrowind is considered one of the best rpgs of all time. You know what else it’s considered? One of the most bug filled ones. But the community looks past the bugs, and enjoys the game they were given.
Lastly, Anet has been awesome about communication, you should pay more attention.

My opinion on OP skills

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Posted by: tOss.9024

tOss.9024

Treb port: watch paths, the path to their repair kit is easily visible from several points. The mesmer portal only lasts for a short duration before its gone. All you have to do is intercept the mesmer before he gets to the kit.
HB/BR: easily visible to dodge, easily countered through damage mitigation, stun breakers etc. After you get past HB, the warrior has blown his load; easy kill.
HS: damage mitigation, dodge, retaliation, blinds, all effective ways to let him waste initiative. Easy kill from there( unless the thief is decent then It may be a good fight).
There you go, now go play.