Guild Wars 2

anyway you can stop responding to this now.. its just a question of go condi and melt them or let them melt you.. not much you can do (or just turn into a litch and watch them run away) like everyone does

its funny .. you make it sound as if I have a world of time to tease out all the mesmers defences and can easily and happily move around even tho I will be crippled for the entire fight even when not attacking clones… and its just so easy to stop an auto attack or already cast range attack from hitting the sword block =|……………..

full on pu mesmers that have staff focus sceptre are not the problem.. I actually do not see many of them. its the hybrids that shatter and damage with sword, they got easy access to condis without even speccing into condi damage lines-.- and can do damage way too well all in one build and it doesn’t take long to overwhelm you…

mesmers are a pain to fight in pvp -.- you can already troll a point against 2 people by yourself you can reset fights easily you can do both condi and do damage at the same time really well.. that’s something a necro cant do you can literally shut a target down during team fights making it easy for your team (too many stuns >.<)

if you guys are crying about being underpowered because of warriors and guards guess what everyone is underpowered against them >=( and if anet buff them this “balance” update they are not very bright……..

every thief I have faced has not had a problem popping it on me from stealth.. I wish they did =|

just keep doing what you always do spike stealth run wait spike stealth revealed run wait.. till your enemies defences are all stuck behind a nice cool down wall and then get the auto win………………. all nerfs are welcome with initiative recharging 1 per second… that’s 15 seconds per massive hitting combo..if you spam everything compared to the defensive cd’s of many professions being a lot longer…………….. just on my necro alone

wod 50 seconds all stun breaks 60 seconds

but its anet.. of course they will give you something that makes these new revealed skills redundant I mean they already gave you increased damage from stealth too much healing and too many ways to clear conditions -.-..

this is what im expecting..

cast times of all signets increased! all instant casts have a massive animation and cast time because it was unfair for the warrior, removed chill of death because it was deemed unfair, reduced all condition durations and removed tainted shackles because why not?

meanwhile warrior:
now removes a condition every hit healing signet has been doubled in strength gap closer skills now get rid of chill and cripple the lengths of stances increased by triple the amount and base damage now doubled

slight exaggeration but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was along the lines of this.

be as rude as you want I dont care that was just a list of what goes on when a Mesmer is around. just wanted to know how to beat them without going full condi

Yamsandjams.3267:

One is also a ring and one is a wall. A ring can trap someone, a wall cannot. If you use line of warding or unsteady ground, it’s the same situation as spectral wall (although there is the weird continual knockdown bug that can happen).

Also note that the fear can actually be a more potent CC in that it’s duration can be improved and you can trait it to do damage. You can even fear someone into it to cause a fear chain. In some cases it also makes it easier to force people into certain locations or off ledges, but it’s largely dependent on positioning for that.

Spectral wall also has a very fast cast time so it’s easier to drop it on someone without any setup.

Oddly enough, the other mentioned skills are all weapon skills while spectral wall is a utility.

well this “bug” happens all the time if someone uses these on me I can never get away from it once they drop it on top of me even if I don’t move it knocks me down over and over… I drop the wall on someone and they can run around in it and even through it again with no issues. the long cast time always leads to situations like this because everyone else seems to have gap closers/insane mobility….

necro doesn’t have stability that doesn’t require heavy trait investment resulting in an extremely weak/pointless build

if warding is dropped directly on top of a player it works if spectral wall is dropped on top of a player it does not work. this is the problem I am talking about here.. it requires people to ignore it/not see it and run into it to activate

I guess its just one of those things =\

Sors Immani.8429:

Corrupt Boon, Plague Signet, Well of Corruption, Dark Path (traited), Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark… They like to load up boons and we have plenty of corruption, also we have high enough HP to face-tank some condis and toss ‘em right back at the mesmer whenever they reveal themselves. Add a DS #3 (Doom) or Reaper’s Mark for the lulz.

sure plenty of corruption…. most of them need a target tho…. some have long cast time and obvious aftercast which means it just gets dodged or a clone gets shoved in the way from staff 3/dodging so rather pointless… plus everyone just says go full condi I already said I cant.. then ele becomes a god against you and they are just as prevalent as mesmers now.

I have played pu Mesmer and it was easy to kill people with it, I have already stated im not confused by the clones but I still need to actually make it over to the Mesmer to do damage which is hard when they keep vuln/cripple on you all the time or they just dodge the obvious animations/aftercasts and they never hit. ds 4 and 5 just result in me killing myself because they want you to kill their clones that’s the entire point.

nearlight.3064:

Trust me, mesmers do not need anymore nerfs. They are in a dire enough state as it is.

And secondly, is this WvW or PvP? In WvW, you can just run away from PU condition mesmers. And also, the standard shatter build has little to no condition removal, which is definitly their weakness. Most shatter specs can’t take mender’s purity or the mantra cleanse, and may have null field, but after thats gone they are helpless against conditions. PU condition builds may have maximum condition clear with mender’s purity, harmonious mantras, the heal mantra and the cleanse mantra, but thats it, and the weaknesses they gain by running that spec make it so you can just run away since they can’t catch up to you, or they simply won’t be able to hold a point or contribute to team fights well.

This is really just an l2p issue. True a good staff/GS shatter mesmer is tough, but condition necros are strong against them. Also their sword immob blurred frenzy combo is so overdone its rather easy to avoid, and doesn’t do enough damage to break DS.

but thats my opinion, so yeah mesmers can be tough until you know the class, then they’re fairly easy to deal with.

probs should have mentioned pvp =\ and condi necro at least for me and from my experience versing them is not viable in pvp.. way too many counters

ps I have a lvl 80 Mesmer.. I do know the class I know they will most likely teleport behind me when they stealth then pop leap and try shatter spike me problem is what can I do about it? I cant see their actions while hidden and its usually started with a stun from a mantra/close clone -.- you also need to remember.. necro is not the most mobile class the cripple from the clones slows us down to turtle pace

Paavotar.3971:

Razor, why do you even bother to ask if you laugh at the reasoning given to you? Says kinda lot about you as well.

And if warrior actually wants to have full adrenaline bar after 7-9 seconds one has to play really aggressively. Assuming you don’t use berserkers stance you have to hit and be hit 30 times to have it full. Sure, weapon swap gives you 5 adrenaline so it’s roughly 20/25 hits taken or given during that time. One needs to be really aggressive to maintain that through out combat.

And no, warriors don’t spam eviscerate, they set it up by stunning first or baiting evades. And it is conditional like your fire grasp, we need to have full bar of adrenaline to make it hard hitting.

And play warrior. Try it out. Get the feeling down how the flow of the combat goes with warrior. Then you can predict bursts skills with ease and dodge every one of them. It’s like people calling stealth a learn to play issue. This is one of those as well.

@Lifestealer: Please, don’t pull the mythical 6/6/6/6/6 warrior with 4 weapons swaps into this conversation again. People should understand that warrior is a versatile profession that can bring a lot of things into the table but not all of them at once.

not hard to bait evades when your normal attacks do 1k+ damage each hit and rather quickly too… then there is the stances while doing this…. need to run away somehow while we wait as you try to stun us into place with hammer shield axe combos……………because running away is a perfectly acceptable counter according to the balance talk live stream -.- #will never be an esport

PU mesmers are a pain, especially the condi ones that proc on clone death trait. Power build? Good luck trying to kill it when you have weakness on you 80% of the time. Still deals damage is stealth remaining cozy and safe. Of course in Spvp though this build isn’t that good because you can’t hold onto points well(stealth).[/quote]

no.. they just kill you get 10 points for the stomp then cap it back for more points….. I would say that is better then denying it =s

It is fun to fight against the other professions that I can see….. even thief is better then fighting a Mesmer…. at least they need to get close to me to do anything! but mesmers.. wtf was anet thinking?

I know they may not be a problem for warrior or guardian (what is these days?) but it doesn’t matter what I do I cant beat them.. im not confused by them, I know where the Mesmer is.

the problem is staff skills are in the high extremes of lack luster .. oh noes 2 stacks of bleads and a chill what ever will I do? they stealth and teleport rendering any of my attacks redundant seeing as they need a target, high vigour uptime means they dodge the majority of my attacks even if they are just randomly doing it to spawn clones.

they deal large amounts of damage while invis they have a rather nasty spike that can be cast from stealth.. that immobs you!! not stun so unless you have an insta clear that does not require a target gl…. their defences are on a lower cd then most of my skills/own defences. their most usefull skills are also a stunbreak so fearing is rather pointless unless they over extend

the cc … stuns on shatters interrupt mantras gs knockback focus pull always giving them enough time to generate the clones/wait for the next stealth to be off cd

targeting… I don’t know if its just me but after the july update my tab targeting has been prioritizing pets, clones the kitchen sink before it targets the real Mesmer. I can even be rubbing up against them and its targeting clones behind me!@@#$ if anyone else is experiencing this please tell me im not the only one .

point of this thread? I need help I just don’t know what to do, going full condi is not an option.. that just leaves you open to warriors guardians(it actually makes them stronger to an extent) thieves love condi necro (the smart ones anyway) basically a free kill for them with only 18k hp and the amount of clears they have, elle .. lol engie.. not so much but all they need to do is dodge doom and not walk on the soulmark and they can keep you on the ground with cc for long enough to kill you that’s my experience with condi anyway

whats the point of dps if you cant even use it? being in point blank range is not exactly the smartest move in this meta with all the cc flying around at least that’s what I have found, as it is I can barely do anything lately and my combat log is filled with stun stun knockback immob up the backside followed by some more stun knockback interrupt…. loving the slow cast times vs instant casts of other classes atm

sorry for venting it has just been one of those days… never had so many people just run away get free heals then come back

oh no im losing against a necro!!! pop blocks run away heal up come back 5 seconds later smash necro who is still waiting for cooldowns and who either wasted ds waiting or its on c/d because you exited it… yay……….

main culprits thief.. duh (gets way too much of a bonus from using steal from stealth 5s fear and stun with boons up the behind……)
ranger
warrior
ele

necro gap closers are so pathetic….. they really need to get rid of the aftercast bs especially when it goes from when it was cast not how close you are to your target it will never get someone trying to get away not to mention how obvious it is… oh look a hand slowly coming towards me-.- I wonder what it is?

2k hits on rifle? what build does this?? everything in the power line is bombs

on my other toons I don’t have much of a problem avoiding grenade spam.. but every time I see a build it has them. my question is, how do you guys hit anything with them? do you just trust people are stupid enough to run behind you as you drop them at your feet? or is the only time they work when you get a lucky immob off with rifle, I just really do not understand this tediously slow weapon.

^ yes a thief needs to get near you to do good damage but you need to think…. how long does aoe last? does that aoe do crazy damage? did they run left or right?

if aoe is a counter to thieves then it must be a massive hard counter to visible classes seeing as I can aim it at them/force them to stay in it because I am actually able to use attacks that require a target.

a thief does not need to deal large amounts of damage in one go.. they can out attrition any other class and due to no cool downs hindering their attacks and initiative regen being too fast they can dish out their highest hitting combos over and over until the opponents defences are all stuck behind a nice fat cool down.

people need to remember… not everyone plays warrior and gets a nice big hard hitting auto attack cleave they can spam all day and permanent regen healing them while the thief is recharging initiative… other classes actually need to try to beat a thief >.>…..

and judging by the way things are going things will not change any time soon

I see people say its all down to your positioning with necro. what does this actually mean? our weapons are 600 range so its not standing far away.. our wells are extremely short in duration so its not standing in them. staff marks are negated by dodging/evading into them. other classes have leaps/ teleports skills that do all positioning for them with one click(e.g thieves) some even automatically get rid of our soft cc so kiting is hard/impossible in many cases

so I want to know what people mean by saying “you didn’t position yourself right” or “its all down to good positioning”

not to mention a thief doesn’t have 6 others around that look like them once they drop target

^you do realise Mesmer can are equally horrible to fight if not worse when using stealth right? unlike thief you do not need to get close if anything you use it to keep far away and you can do damage while in stealth. you also do exactly the same thing as a thief.. stealth mind wrack illusionary leap stun/interrupt them leap sword 2………..

thief stealth steal interrupt/stun go nuts with weapon skills

so I just went full aoe seeing as that’s the “counter” to thieves I was running axe focus, dagger warhorn. wos woc and wod with chill traited I stagger my wells I use axe 3 as often as possible for the retaliation and try to immob whenever I can, I have 2 sources of clannel skills axe 2 and dagger 2. according to the posters in this thread I should annihilate a thief and win easily,

well this is the outcome sees theif approaching… drops wod on self expecting the teleport (the skills are cast outside wod so the blind doesn’t and never will block the first hit) I am stunned they can hit so fast the blind pulses does not stop much stun is over I attack them with immob (the animation is so obvious and the cast time is so long they drop black powder on me and teleport out (the chill does nothing to thieves initiative regain) I use my warhorn and switch to axe and try to channel them they pop a blind and dodge twice I try do drop wos they stun me blind me then teleport to me and start hitting me I drop wos try to immob them dodge try to use focus skills dodge dodge hit with axe 3 (keep in mind they are standing outside of my stagnant wells) getting ranged now so I use dagger 2 for channel .. they stealth and dodge basically negating it now I don’t know where they are I again drop aoe and spread it out around me only to find them ranging me for 5 seconds dodging all of my ranged attacks or evading /teleporting /blinding from outside the wells I think you get the point by now

this fight went on for about a minute. all my major attacks were easily dodged due to the vigour and reduced costs to dodges aoe did stuff all steath negated all forms of control I have because most usefull skills require a target sd 4 and 5 are easily interrupted something you have easy access to the blinds… omg@##$@

all I did was stall the thief the end result was always the same .. they could avoid all major damage and if they stuffed up then they could just hop away or use their bow.. heal gain initiative AND COME BACK FOR THE KILL every time.

this thief then continued into the next game and I decided to sit back and watch them. this is what I found out

your initiative regens way too fast and is not on par with other classes cooldown system, you need to remember there is nothing to prevent you from using your big hitting skills and defences time and time again while other classes have their defence and offence stuck behind a cool down, this is what is not fair especially when chill is used..

this thief did not die to any other class but another thief and Mesmer .. wonder why

the fights went the same way mine did with the other classes in my team. someone pops aoe stand outside of it range/wait for attacks dodge/blind the problematic ones aoe is over go in for the spike after stunning then retreat heal up come back over and over again until the opponent had nothing usefull to save them due to cool downs then get a free win.

the initiative never ran out, in the time it took them to get enough initiative for a full burst most classes would only have one or 2 skills off cool down..

Aberrant.6749:

unlucky.9285:

Aberrant.6749:

unlucky.9285:

Aberrant.6749:

kishter.9578:

Emi.4152:

yay! nerf all the things!

1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!

i… you… okay…

You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.

No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.

again those “counters” work so much better on people I can see because I can concentrate them in one spot on my visible opponent rather then dropping them on myself in hopes the thief is stupid enough to melee me… if anything the stealth mitigates the damage

They work just fine even if you can’t see the thief. If you were able to see the thief all the time and they were just as squish, the class would be a joke.

Some players just need to learn how to fight with them properly and understand what thieves do instead of turning into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.

oh you mean press 1 spin around and count to 3 before you dodge.. that’s mlg material right there

If that’s what you think is the best way to deal with a thief stealth attack… then you have quite a bit of learning to do. That type of stuff will help newer players that don’t have a clue with how to deal with a stealth attack and don’t want to put any time into the game though… and it’s better than acting like grazing cattle… but it’s far from the best.

If you’re serious about learning, then I highly suggest you go into the thief subforum and post your class/build/gear and ask them the tatics you could use to help against the type of thief you’re having problems with. As long as you don’t ask for nerfs/call thief OP/etc. they will help you and give you advice.

really? then please tell me how to deal with it. sitting in aoe is only a delay and even then they can ignore it and win depending on your health thanks to increased damage attacks from stealth and increased damage the lower your opponents health is..

running the other direction from where they stealthed… im pretty sure they can move faster

try to hunt them down hmm did they go left or right? did they go further away or port behind me? couple that with no info on if you are hitting them good luck.

these are the suggestions i have seen people give out.

Solori.6025:

Thank the high lords of mount Olympus you haven’t fought any Guardians, Ele’s, Engineers, Mesmers, or Rangers yet.

I don’t think we have enough bucket’s for that kind of QQ

maybe because you can actually attack them all the time and they cant just run away and come back when it suits them?

maybe its because they also have cool down and cant just use their big hitting skills over and over and over with blinds up the a… to back it up

Mesmer does have its issues such as the ability to spawn phantasms and clones while in stealth getting free damage off that they should not.

if I lose against the normal classes its because they are either a hard counter and I needed to play better or i got outplayed the same goes when i beat them but against thief even if i played way better they still have that oh… this didn’t go as i planned … oh well stealth port heal regen reset have another go

thief is even worse in a 2v2.. no other class can take out one of the opponents faster during focus fire thus turning it into a 1v2 quite easily

Aberrant.6749:

unlucky.9285:

Aberrant.6749:

kishter.9578:

Emi.4152:

yay! nerf all the things!

1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!

i… you… okay…

You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.

No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.

again those “counters” work so much better on people I can see because I can concentrate them in one spot on my visible opponent rather then dropping them on myself in hopes the thief is stupid enough to melee me… if anything the stealth mitigates the damage

They work just fine even if you can’t see the thief. If you were able to see the thief all the time and they were just as squish, the class would be a joke.

Some players just need to learn how to fight with them properly and understand what thieves do instead of turning into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.

oh you mean press 1 spin around and count to 3 before you dodge.. that’s mlg material right there

i have died instantly with 15k health and 12k lf this has happened to me quite a lot but what you are describing i don’t think i have noticed this one =s

is it when you personally exit death shroud or when you are forced out of it? i get insta death when im forced out

killahmayne.9518:

jportell.2197:

killahmayne.9518:

jportell.2197:

dancingmonkey.4902:

jportell.2197:

dancingmonkey.4902:

jportell.2197:

Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.

How many hours do you have on your engie? What build do you use that you feel handles conditions well?

I’m not saying that engis handle conditions well… But saying that engineers have the worst condition removal in this game is LOLOL… +

What profession is worse it it’s productive overall build and why?

one of the inherent problems of the profession, is that it is balanced around a minimum of at least one kit filling a utility slot. A slot other professions can arm a dedicated condition removal, mobility skill, or sun breaker, the is otherwise not avaliable to the engineer.

And yet most mesmers take null field only which even if the mesmer stands in for the duration is less condi removal than using healing turret off cd… Just saying

Are you kidding me?? Mesmers have two to three times the options for condition removal then what an engi has. I rarely have problems with condition removal on my Mesmer if I spec for it.

Mesmer torch can remove 2 conditions pretty much every 20-25 seconds. Mending Purity can remove like 6 conditions every 15 seconds if you have the Mantra heal and mantra can be casted 3 times. If using Ether Feast 2 conditions every 20 seconds is pretty decent. The condition removal mantra removes 4 conditions every 20 seconds. Arcane Thievery removes or xfers 3 conditions every 45 seconds. Null field pulses removal every 45 seconds or so for 5 seconds. Phantasmal disenchanter. All that and you can trait the cooldown for mantras, spec into more mantra usage.

Let’s see what an Engi has. A crappy transmute every 15 seconds. The condi clear from the healing is decent. Elixir C has like a 45 second cooldown. Throwing it removes/xfers one condition.

I don’t know how you can dispute the fact that a Mesmer has way more options for condi clear than an Engi

LOL and how many PU mesmers are used in high end teams? How many mesmers represented in the last TOL used any condi clear at all… OYEAH none. You know why because mesmer is taken for portal, illusion of life and that’s it… Most high end mesmers run GS staff… no condi clear there. And if you are not runnign shatters remove a boon as a mesmer then you are bad.

Read my post again. I never said anything about PU Mesmers. I dont give a sh** about what people run in ToL and people act like ToL should be taken as the holy grail of what people should run. Just because people in ToL don’t run condition clear that is there fault nobody elses. sPvP and ToL is a stupid gamemode that pretends to be like League of Legends LCS in which professional teams go at it when indeed there are clearly so many imbalances and it all revolves around throwing all your skills into a small circle.

There is also WvW and PvE those are also game modes. The fact is Mesmers have way more options then Engineers do in terms of condition removal. Do I need to number them for you so you can visually see that Mesmers have 2-3x the options then Engineers do? Just because people choose not to use them, doesn’t mean they are non-existent.

THINK PLZ!!!!

im fine with you getting more condi removal as long as it forces you to chose it in your traits over something decent like vigour or swiftness or burning then that’s fine :p, even better put it in the areas with weapon buffs its ok because you will have them then just like the Mesmer right?

oh and if they give you guys easy condi removal traits/utilities they better give necro easy access to stability too because fair is fair

this is just my experience, the most encounters I have had against thief is on a necro, maybe the necro is just too broken against this class/ specific build and the others do not have such a problem. just putting forward what I have noticed that’s all. I never said nerf it. just the problems I have noticed. and gave 2 possible ways to actually bring counter play to this classes over abundant access to stealth without breaking it because I know they need stealth to survive.

this is a scenario that happens a lot to me.
on my necro I have vampiric which is heal on hit. i was heading towards a fight on a point after just finishing a group battle against another necro and a ranger so i had a bit of damage on me and was still in combat. as i approached the point i ran behind a pillar and accidentally hit auto attack (naga mouse) and it pinged the heal (there was a thief getting ready to gank my team mate once he reached 50%) needless to say i bore down on him like a tonne of bricks and he must have panicked or got confused as to how i knew his exact location because i ended up killing him while stealth, this is counter play this kind of thing is what is needed.

I never said the regen came from withdraw… and again consume conditions more often then not will get interrupted because of the long and obvious cast. did you factor in the damage you take from the conditions while the cast is initiating? a stack of bleeds can do quite a bit of damage in that time, you should also factor in the damage done to you by your opponent as well because more often then not they will be in your face/ranging during this time

the signet will basically guarantee your death if you take it because of the icd and no healing out of combat, I could take well of blood but then I have an even longer cool down to contend with coupled by the fact a thief can just fear me out of it with no visual warning so I can try stop it and it also has a horrendous cast time.

that’s it really =\

Emi.4152:

yay! nerf all the things!

1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!

i… you… okay…

1. I don’t, I press 1 till it goes away or try and use a ranged cast if they are not near me/ ranged weapon( but then they can just apply it straight away so -.-)

2again as soon as I see them evading I do not use anything but auto attacks or try get away needless to say anything I was doing just as they start to evade seeing as it is normally initiated from stealth will go to waste

3. I put my aoe around me and stand in them, but you know.. thief has a bow and they only last 5-10 seconds or can be easily negated.

4. so dodging the initial burst from stealth is a waste? even with the increased damage with attacks from stealth trait.. ok what ever, if you get lucky it was on an attack that makes them revealed sometimes, but that is usually met with running away for 4 seconds only to go back into stealth when its over.

5. matter of opinion really. I can only do so much even when I do land immobs they can get away quite easily but again that situation is usually met with a shot of blind to mitigate my attack so I cant make sure they stay there followed by teleport and by then the immob is over.

I guess my main problem is with sd thief and again I don’t know what the solution is, the way the class works just allows for way too much survivability in comparison with the healing and the evades

evades blocks stealth are way better sustain mechanics then extra health with no way to stop incoming attacks the regen speed of initiative and the way your weapons work allows for frequent high damage bursts. if the first burst fails just teleport away stealth kite wait and continue till your opponents defences / big hitting skills are all sitting behind a nice timer while you can just go in for the kill with the same combo you used just seconds ago.

frans.8092:

unlucky.9285:

the healing…. you gave them way too much over and over and over again I can get a thief low health then they just pop away for about 5 seconds into stealth and come out full health lets compare necro consume conditions 5k health every 25 seconds with a lengthy obvious scream to the world look at me im healing interrupt me cast

Every 25 seconds your Consume Conditions removes all conditions, and every condition removed adds another 700 HPof healing, so when used well this will easily net you a 7-8 k heal and cleanse all conditions. Withdraw heals 4.3 k and removes only movement impairing conditions, cripple, chill and immobilize. Unlike Consume it is negatively effected by poison. I don’t think Consume Conditions is inferior to Withdraw, I would seriously consider over Withdraw should I have the choice.

Btw, the way you round the healing from consume down, and that of withdraw up is a rather revealing sign of your lack of objectivity.

this one skill still works out to be more health over time on an instant cast that cant be interrupted and its not factoring in sources of regen. it saves a thief that makes mistakes so often its not funny…

Aberrant.6749:

kishter.9578:

Emi.4152:

yay! nerf all the things!

1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!

i… you… okay…

You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.

No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.

again those “counters” work so much better on people I can see because I can concentrate them in one spot on my visible opponent rather then dropping them on myself in hopes the thief is stupid enough to melee me… if anything the stealth mitigates the damage

omg why cant i post any decent responses it keeps saying this area isn’t available yet?@#?$

oh wow i wrote a response and it wouldn’t let me post it .. typical but this works what1@#$#

the healing…. you gave them way too much over and over and over again I can get a thief low health then they just pop away for about 5 seconds into stealth and come out full health lets compare necro consume conditions 5k health every 25 seconds with a lengthy obvious scream to the world look at me im healing interrupt me cast

thief 4.5k health every 15 seconds for dodging do the math

the blinds they may not use them in a row but why would you need to? they are instant casts that you cant dodge it only takes one blind to mitigate a large amount of damage coupled with the evade spam of sword…

the evades.. you are joking right? I can have a thief in my face and hardly do any damage in comparison to what they are doing and just watch the word evade evade evade spam all over the screen in front of me combined with target removal every time they pop stealth, now im fighting the worse targeting system in the world as well as the thief also reduced cost to dodges+vigour.. good luck landing anything with an animation with a cast time or that is a channel

sticky skills.. you don’t even need to keep up/position yourselves one click does it all with free teleports to your target on weapon skills. it doesn’t matter how crafty or erratic I try to be I just cant get a thief off me because of this.

no counterplay to stealth… aoe is a feeble attempt to protect yourself the damage it does compared to the damage dished out does not compare. aoe skills are usually on long timers with short durations. what is to stop a thief just waiting 5 seconds and then attacking? or standing outside of it and ranging. not to mention I can aim them at people I can see rather then guesswork. maybe if it had increased damage to stealthed opponents then it would be a counter 1 spam also works oh so much better on people I can see. what thief runs into some ones sword? V example of a counter that isn’t too punishing…

we need feedback to tell us if we are hitting a thief while in stealth either flash an outline of them or flash a health bar (it will need an icd to be fair on the thief 1-2 second) its not like they cant just use their short bow and pop away or dodge through us…

some actual decent counter play now reveal the thief they are blocked/dodged… I really do not understand why you guys are punishing players for good timing and actual planning by letting a thief stay cloaked if they fail… please tell me how this is a bad thing..

i don’t know what the solution is but some things are just really unfair from this class i have played it and did ok with it while clueless about what it does god knows what it is like in the hands of someone who mains it… oh wait >.<

i don’t always die from them but usually it takes a mistake on their part from over extending or just fat luck. it never matters how well i play due to the fact they can run away for 5 seconds gain enough initiative to do their burst combo while my defences/heal are still on cool down.

ps mesmers are even worse when they abuse this mechanic seeing as they don’t need to get near you >.< and not everybody plays warrior for aoe stun spam with a giant fire field lol

its not useless but it is very easy for the enemy team to make it useless due to no escapes and basically no decent practical stability.

it takes a lot more skill to get out of bad situations then any of the other classes and most of your time will be spent trying to stay alive and active instead of being the communal hot potato.

in other words once you know the class if its necro thief or warrior the necro will take more effort to use in organised situations especially after the last update =|