warriors get a nerf so they come out of the woodwork looking to nerf necro because its the closes thing they can think of to their adrenaline mechanic.. oh just forget they still hard counter a necro and can shut one down easily if played right -.-
necro got a nerf this update not a buff.. and they never seemed to bother people enough pre patch to bring on all this qq so I dono … its still the easiest out of all the classes for me to kill on my necro or other class, the weakness to cc really does let them down substantially and if you know what to avoid then you can prevent them from gaining life force.
and then the ranger just stealths gets some distance and pew pew pew again knock back rapid fire stealth repeat.. or they can just pop signets and go nuts with greatsword.. they do have immunity after all
And as a response you cry about it on the forums no? Or did you forget that those skills existed on the Longbow already and can be countered ?
Also, Greatsword has the worst animations for close combat in history, if you want to interrupt and dodge anything, then go ahead…
Again, time to adapt buddy… You cannot ignore Rangers anymore, but that does not mean they are OP, that means you gotta have a different mindset combatting them… I did it succesfully on some exotic builds, so why should you not be able to?
I never ignored rangers.. they have always been a pest from range and been able to heal like crazy do damage and kill people.. its just nobody wanted to bother trying and were all stuck qqing about waaa I wana be a ranger and use my bows……………….. but now with the dps buffs and other changes increasing the rangers damage you have all that and some.. going way over the top
I said it before.. I have never had such an easy time killing a necro they cant do anything about you they have 0 defence against ranged and if they catch you just stealth and hop away with gs and continue.. I literally played ranger for 1 hour and did not die to a single necro when it want a cluster kitten they have got the real short end of the stick this update
just dodge you say? it takes 2 dodges to negate it and the cooldown is faster then endurance regen just rinse and repeat or stuff around with gs and signets if that doesn’t kill them then switch back and its usually game over. maybe I was fighting bads but geez they were not that easy once I switched back to my other characters that I have been playing since I began……
you get it I was button mashing I have no idea what I was doing and still winning against people who play their class every day
Nope allows bad playerd to contribute to the level of other zerker playing there class well. No step up for burst, no positional req, they do it from range and on 8 sec cd.
If you truly play like that, I pity you… It is a zerker spec, and like any other it requires positioning… If you truly think you can just safely spam Rapid Fire from range, then you are exactly what I talked about – someone incapable of changing…
Besides on easier than other Zerker classes? S/F Ele has the capability of completely nullifying projectiles, or returning them even, going into invuln twice if going for Arcane Shield and got a quicker burst rotation than almost any class within the game if played well…
Ranger requires a single target to utlitize it’s skills, so Thieves and Mesmers got the option to stealth and keep constant pressure in their faces… Interrupt Mesmers got a ton more powerful by the sheer fact that Rapid Fire is indeed spammed, so enjoy being punished for it…
A Zerker Necromancer might be in trouble from up far, but going in close, getting the Fear off from either Staff #5 or Doom, and getting close with Dark Path will ensure the Ranger will regret even targetting him…
Zerker Guards, or more specifically, meditation Guardians got enough gap-closers within their rotation to once more make the Ranger sweat when they are up close…
and then the ranger just stealths gets some distance and pew pew pew again knock back rapid fire stealth repeat.. or they can just pop signets and go nuts with greatsword.. they do have immunity after all
but you can take more hits while taking face plants into the ground or standing on the spot confused and dazed so you get nothing to help you mitigate damage or help you actually cast a skill without it being put on cd because they got “too close/walked through you or was just so long to cast they interrupted it” the higher tier my necro gets the less skills I can actually cast without being first hit by some form of faster/instant cc
People keep talking about their burst not being as good but I’m still hitting hard as hell, are you all not using zerk amulet? I figured the non zerker amulets using lich would take a little hit but I figured zerk would be fine.
I have found people are having an easier time killing me in lich form before I can down them since the update =\
i really don’t see how condi necro is good. everyone speaks of it as the best spec for a necro but all i get is immunity shoved in my face while using it i cant get away i cant do damage i don’t get enough lf i really do not understand what you guys see in it that i don’t.
and eles are basically immune to you
not to mention i kill them all the time =s
And for a good year the Warrior pretty much was at the bottom of the barrel of sPvP and pretty much a free kill 1v1.
Even in the recent tourney’s you mostly saw only 1 warrior, some teams had no warriors. Most of the teams that featured 2 warriors lost. If they were far more superior than any other class then why don’t we see a 5 man warrior team at the highest level? Why are guardians and eles more represented?
Stop QQing about Warriors in general.
Warriors were never ‘bad’ in SPvP.
They were a mid tier class at the highest levels of coordination and individual skill at launch. But they completely dominated the metagame for the average player since release.
Just like they have in PvE and WvW.
After the nerfs Warriors will be one of the strongest classes in the game, probably still the strongest.
incorrect.
Before the old buffs to Warrior healing, the entire class was nothing but sandbags in pvp.
this is the patch that took them from low-tier pvp to high-tier.
So much happened at that time for Warrior that they jumped the entire middle tier. The community has never really recovered from that revamp, and now those changes are slowly being cut back, due to qq as shallow as the OPs.
At launch, anything with CC ate warriors. Namely, everything.
didn’t you know necro is the king of all classes? anet seem to think so and thus it deserves nerfing and nothing but each update =|………… as you can tell from my history im quite peeved at what has been going on and what has been ignored in comparison to what they think is op on necro’s (stances are perfectly fine lets buff them!) I think this update has killed any enthusiasm I have to play this game, the only other class I kind of enjoy is Mesmer but meh………
hope you enjoy the real world tho and good luck to you
I thought being third in line for needing the most help as voted by the players would mean necro is already underpowered not in need of more nerfs
you over buffed rangers and you buffed eles but you get into the Guinness book of records having the ability to surpass nerfing into the ground and go deeper into the planets core, where is this sustain you promised? all you did was take away our cc and damage and say job done
get off your stupid warriors and play the flipping class in the real world and get a !#$% clue
ever since I started this game I got into necro and have only seen nerf after nerf after oops we broke it #deal with it
not sure what they are called but I don’t know how to handle them. they do the same thing evey time insta teleport knock down pop that ring that keeps me near them then sipn around with sword and there is nothing I can do about it..
they can take down lich in seconds thanks to blind blind blind blind blind blind blind (because lich so needed the nerf its getting pfft) I cant get them off me thanks to blind I cant run away (necro geez) any distance I make is instantly gone with another teleport/ swiftness and then they just heal up to full and start all over again if I survived
tips?
im playing zerker necro 62002 with wells and spectral armour dagger focus axe warhorn
not a fan of condi I have no trouble against condi necros on my zerker necro and when I do play condi its just stun stun stun stun dead no lf generation slow damage build up only to be cleansed one trick pony that is a sitting duck after the burst…
now I got that out of the way any tips while using zerker necro?
the 10 second reduction is cool down for spectral skills is literally meaningless it adds nothing!! to a necros survivability during a fight we still get the same lame duration and thus the same protection uptime or lf generation all it means is it is ready slightly sooner for the next fight that’s all.
I implore anet to revert it back to a 60 second cool down and give it a 10 second boost in duration instead please!!, that will actually fall along the lines of extra sustain not the joke you gave us and just delete unholy sanctuary its extremely pointless….
Damagespikes, Conditionspikes, Every kind of CC, Any attacks if their ini pool is low/empty, groups, Immo, Daze, Stuns, Ice(semi),…
this is true if a thief stands there and lets you do this to it.. but most of the time you will have blind shoved in your face or you wont have a target or they will be evading / dodging thanks to cast times of these skills with animations
I don’t know how much this tells in practice since most, if not all, Warrior PvP builds do the same
That’s the thing about Necros, everyone keeps screaming “We need more sustain in PvP” but those same people want to keep the amount of damage they can do. And what they may or may not realize is that they will end up becoming the Warriors and Eles of tomorrow.
The good thing is, there’s no real way for the Necro to stack a lot of might without sacrificing utility slots or getting help from Warriors and Eles, which would serve to balance things out but the sustainability and damage of the necro would be relatively good if they made changes using what I listed above. And that could lead to problems of it’s own which I can’t fully grasp yet.
Exactly the gripe I have with most of the complaints… What I see is a bunch of people saying “We need more sustain” but what in reality the posts are saying is, “We want to sacrifice none of our current damage and still get a better time surviving in the middle of a teamfight”…
I am fairly aware that Necromancers have poor scaling defenses (DS being the worst contender), and I also know that for the one teleport that Fleshworm gives, other classes get things like invulns and if that is not enough, reflects and/or simply insane mobility… People hate fighting classes with idiotic sustain or escapability when doing nice damage – it is already becomming clear with the amounts of threads crying about Celestial+Strength/Hoelbrak/Pirate needing a nerf because some builds can become simply broken and thus not fun to play against… Or to play as, the only thing that is remotely fun to me is a 3-Kit engi running with no stunbreaks… Worst part? Most of these builds are specced in defense, with the sole exception of indeed the 3-Kit builld (ironically)…
The reason why I hate, and I main a Warrior, but why I absolutely screamingly hate fighting a Warrior is because it does not make any freaking sense at all as to what they do! Specced for sustain, and dealing a lot, if not some of the best sustained damage in the game? It destroys the thoughts of drawbacks of traiting in a specific line – And the last thing I want is Necromancers to follow the same path… Imagine if Siphons scaled with Power (as someone suggested) going through Deathshroud as well… You’d get idiotic builds specced in defense, dealing a ton of damage without ever having to “feel” as if you have a drawback to your build, or even worse, without ever needing to look at your healing skill (Warriors ringing a bell?)
On the flipside of this coin, the only classes I can comfortably fight any class with in 1v1’s, 2v1’s and 2v2’s on a point are Warrior, Elementalist, Engineer (to some extend) and Necromancer… While it is true that a Necromancer cannot get away from a fight easily, it is also one of the easier classes to send to a node of yours, or a free node from the enemy, to cap it and wait for an enemy to come up… Usually, a Necromancer will either win or buy enough time for support to come – depending on your situation an actual support class or damage class… Even when specced for damage, it is not the worst class to pick to take up on this job…
There need to be things reworked, that is for sure, such as our poor scaling of our defense (DS), not letting DS work against our own work (Regenerations and Siphons), and maybe look at a way to, like many classes, get away from a fight when needed (And not becomming the first target on any team) – but people also need to realize that, if we want our class to not get nerfed again, we need to be careful of what we wish for… Granting more “sustain” on already powerful builds, or letting the Necromancer end up becomming a second Warrior/Ele who dominate most fights they are in because of their insane sustain might let us end up seeing another year filled with nerfs and nothing but nerfs…
… I personally need to stop typing essays when replying to someone or expressing my point…
why are they not nerfing ele then?… and warrior barely got anything if you look at how fast they regen adrenaline, stances and 7 second cd on burst skills..
I don’t think all the self healing skills should work in deathshroud.. a minion master is already a pain in the backside with its health generation. I would say the minor ones would be fine like heal on hit and well siphons as a start
I have an even better change.. get rid of them. immunity with 0 drawbacks should never be a thing and this will never be an esport while this trash is in the game.. what is skilled about click.. now you cant do anything to me gf
plus im sick of warriors going oh.. a necro pops win button presses f1 5 4 3 2 with hammer kills necro no problem because they literally couldn’t do anything
i made the comparison because they seem to think lich is op and are nerfing it into the ground even tho it does not track with its auto attack so it is easy to kite at a distance, you can kill it, reflect it, steal the stability and cc it. but total immunity that does not hinder you in some way is perfectly fine.
my build is 10-o-30-0-30 for my traits
and i use lich form as my elite but now with this update we dont get the bonus power wen we go into lich form
because too many a blind warrior has died to lich and probably a dev while playing on one…. the damage nerf fine but the duration way too far without cast time reductions and/or cd reductions to compensate
since running away is not a counter to litch then neither is it an acceptable counter to stances/ immunity’s that do not lower damage/block you from heals/or take away utilities and/or skills.
so to be fair please give stances/ immune skills with 0 drawbacks a 1 second cast time with a big glowing animation so we at least have some counter play to them thank you.
alternatively make them reduce damage/condi duration by a % maybe it increases as your health gets lower so you can’t die with it on but you cant literally stop people being able to do anything while its up
that or at least give litch its 30 second duration for gods sake…. it has been over nerfed
Yes, I am fully aware that we could’ve gotten so much more, I mean, who does not want to run a top tier blood magic necromancer and be good with it right?
But for the love of our good God, there were some solid changes… Axe animation rework makes the weapon more fluid in use, Warhorn change actually gives Necromancer a long lasting boon of which they do not have frequent acces to and will gain them some ground faster, Dagger cleave is… okay I guess?
Corrupt Boon was “needed” in the name of counterplay, and I am just happy that the aftercast decreased…
But then a major thing catched my eye… Interacting in Deathshroud!
Anyone saying that this is “not noteworthy” is a filthy liar! This change was much needed, and finally it was acknowledged by Anet that it could work out for Necromancers so much better without breaking the system… You have a solid reason to slot “Foot in the Grave” now since it will secure stomps and resses – this, whatever you may say otherwise – is a huge improvement in terms of teamplay, and yes, in actual sustain for us as well!
Be more positive! We did not get nuked into oblivion, we got some good QoL changes that will subtly but surely change our gameplay in the end, I am sure of it!
Again, yes, we could’ve gotten some “major buffs” or w/e, but for once, you should try to look at it more positively instead of drowning in your tears! We are by no means the ones that should cry, instead we should feast on the tears of our enemies!
Did this need a new thread? Maybe, I just wanted to give you all a more brighter view on the changes… Cheer up, if anything, it could’ve been worse!
where is the counterplay from steal? where is the counterplay from stances? where is the counterplay from mantras? they basically took away anything the necro had and made us worse while buffing the other professions
make stances 50% effective instead of total immunity that is all that is needed really then they cant go oh look im half health and you are half health pop stance now you cant do anything I can do everything and you cant stop me while I heal up. win
almost every other immunity has a downside apart from ranger (also needs to be looked at tbh) they usually prevent you from doing anything while they are up or block you from using your heals/utilities.
I already know how thieves work. it changes nothing and I have been doing the frenzy shatter thing but it doesn’t kill them its usually easily evaded by them actually then they just stealth steal burst win… or stealth run away heal burst win -.-.. and lets not forget you usually have blind shoved on you regularly
well I watched the vashury vids. I have no idea how he gets the skills off so fast if I try to go that quick it will put the previous skill on cool down and not cast them and some of the skills went off before he had even changed weapon sets completely…
build is/was 4 4 0 0 6 and im talking about pvp situations not wvw should probably add that to my main post. I was starting to use blurred frenzy when they try to steal but usually they just dodge away and wait it out. will give your combo a go tho thanks =)
if running away from a warrior while using a stance is considered a counter then so is running away from litch plus the fact boon strip cc reflects blind all kill it as well.
Clearly you don’t know anything about Stances. Or you’re just being deliberately silly. Stances last 4-10s. Lich Form is 30s. While running for 4s is feasible, running for 30s is not.
Stances also don’t boost your offensive stats.
no they just let you do what ever you want to the other professions with no drawbacks and no way for them to get some distance from you as you cc them to death or chase them down doing damage constantly -.-….
or let you get such a massive lead in the fight that it is an uphill battle for your opponent once they end
infact you can just kill a litch if you pop that and whack away at it with the right build
Typically kill them fairly quickly or make them run. Thief in most cases that I have dealt with are pretty easy to keep up with.
but how?.. I at least had a way to damage them without a target on necro with daggers and wells but on this “you must have an enemy targeted to use that skill” I cant do anything and just get the typical blind dagger 1s 222 dead.. <simplified ofc
doesn’t matter how much toughness I have they just go 1 2 3 dead <not literally but nearly. no point using stealth because their attacks are chained and follow you anyway.. no point blinking because their skills do that for them anyway :s and the damage zomg! they are a pest on my necro but I can at least deal with the stupid ones and the smart ones if they stuff up and fall for my tricks but I cant seem to deal with them on this even tho I know what they are going to do >.<
I do fine against the other classes.. even warrior. im playing sword pistol gs shatter could go gs staff but have not really figured that out yet
Eh. I would’ve voted for Confusion … y’know, the “signature” Mesmer Condition? But, that’s just me. I also would have not tossed it on the first part of the AA chain. /shrug
Then again, my “Scepter Wishlist” was simply speeding up the AA chain and Confusing Images.
Me too
But it already had confusion in beta, and that was removed real quick. Confusion is just a naturally problematic condition, it really needs a rework and a whole lot of good suggestions have been made on the subject, but Anet has pretty much said they won’t consider such a large change post-release and players just ’don’t understand our design goals’. Which in my opinion is really stupid, if the only way you can allow something in game is in a state where it’s completely nonviable, your design goals be kittened, it needs to be reworked.
how is torment any better then confusion? a Mesmer will try to stay at range.. you cant reach said Mesmer unless you chase them hence move and get heavy damage from the torment, its either chase and die or stand still and die now.
if running away from a warrior while using a stance is considered a counter then so is running away from litch plus the fact boon strip cc reflects blind all kill it as well.
wow I said 2 so you instantly go to dagger spam lol…. don’t forget to take the speed ini regenerates. you get a full burst in 15 seconds (traited increased initiative) that’s shorter them most defence skills of other classes
it seems I over simplified this so I will change it to get peoples brain stuck off dagger spam…
sick of thieves trying to justify the ini system by saying other classes can cast more skills per minute then they can. it means nothing
I can press 6 and hit you with a hard hitting skill
you can press 6 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I cant press 6 but I can cast this weak aoe field
you can press 6 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I still cant press 6 but I can cast this slow moving projectile blind
you can press 6 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I can swap weapons and press 6 and hit you with a hard hitting skill
you can press 6 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
I cant press 6 but I can cast a boon rip that does low damage
you can press 6 and hit me with a hard hitting skill
you get the picture? now take cast times into account and it gets even worse.
more likely scenario..
thief f1
necro feared/dazed..
thief 1111111111
necro stunbreak/deathshroud
thief black powder…
necro dodge backwards is now blind..
thief still 1111 but ready to dodge
necro tries to clear the blind..
thief dodges thanks to cast time then back to 1111
necro clears the blind
thief black powder….
necro low health tries to be defensive and cast wells.. eventually
thief after some 222ing has baited out the defences run away in stealth getting all the heals and what not they need probably cast shadow refuge behind a rock so you cant see it
necro.. cant really do much at this point… cast a mark and hope it hits? sit in a mark and hope the thief doesn’t dodge into it negating it?
thief.. a little bit of time later with a rather full ini bar f1 1111 22222 winsors
necro.. wells on cd deathshroud low/empty stun break still on cd health low cant use weapon skills that are off cd due to no stunbreak weapon swap is probably still on cd at this point if they changed
keep in mind the dagger is an example … and it is still over simplified but I see it time and time again watching fights not being in it a thief bursts gets attacked baits out defences runs away gains ini faster then opponents cooldowns and repeats till they cant defend themselves and are dead its just horrible to play against and if you are caught off guard or have a defence off cooldown or are not full health its just an easy win for them
once activated you are immune to all forms of cc for 10 seconds and gain 5% life force every second
sounds like a trait necro needs I would say what’s your opinion?
i don’t have trouble with the other classes i don’t usually complain about them either other then what everyone else complains about or is plain obviously unfair. just the ones that can pop stealth and reset the fight continuously… i know how i can beat the mesmers.. go full condi and spam the area get swiftness so i can kite the clones and avoid the spike. but that is one build that will get owned by more. also i can beat them with the build i made the thread with if i just get plain lucky and they just happened to not have a dodge/staff2/decoy/blink available or just plain missed my attack that turned the fight in my favour…but its usually just fat luck or down to the terrain preventing them from running away/keeping a large distance if they are in un favourable conditions.
funny.. a single build did do all this during the match I played and every time it turned bad for him he ran away retet and came back…
you do realise any light/medium class can be taken down in seconds by a thief.. heck even the heavies have trouble 1v1…. a well played thief will spike and reset until your defences are stuck behind the cool down wall then get a free kill seeing as they regen 1 initiative every second…
