Lmfao… fun doesn’t matter? People play the game to have fun. Reducing build viability, lowering the skill cap, and removing playstyles, and SUSTAIN (something that we were supposed to have BUFFED) is the opposite of fun. It ain’t good for your game. Unintended or not, and going back on your word…. you better get your kitten together or you will lose your customers, quite simply and realistically. And…. if it was “unintentional”… couldn’t they MAKE it intentional? That would solve a lot more problems instead of making more.
And just as an fyi, Deathshroud stomping used to be considered as an “unintended functionality” or as an “exploit”. And look at it now.
If you are circumventing mechanics using “skill” and having fun doing it, it’s bound to get fixed. And you’re probably going to stop having fun. Still, I see what you are getting at, you wrapped up a few different complaints/goals into the idea of how balance should be approached. But balance isn’t necessarily an act of equivalent exchange. It necessitates destructive revision of playstyles while still allowing for construction of others. As such, Anet can decide what is intended and unintended, remove and add as they see fit.
Shroud stomping is still in because Anet agreed that it had some gameplay merit and agreed that it wouldn’t negatively affect balance when given a legit method of use. As some others have speculated, it really seems like Unholy Sanctuary is a similar case with Deathshroud cooldown management. In cases like the functionality of fiery rush, no alternatives to maintain that situational damage were given despite the cries of some players who said the nerf was unnecessary in their opinions. It’s situational. Look at death shroud fall damage/lethal hits, again a feature that was removed from some gameplay areas that they felt affected balance but gave players a legitimate controlled route for.
As for increasing build variety, they still need to work on that. I have no arguments there. And I agree that Unholy Sanctuary needs to be better, as people really wouldn’t be complaining about the change if they felt US left them with a playstyle they felt was viable. I don’t think it needs a Signet of Vampirism level rework but tweaking the values on the second wind portion of it would be nice.
if you put that much into death magic for unholy sanctuary then you may as well just roll over and die anyway, as you either will have 0 death shroud sustain or 0 damage. as usual anet put a healing/death shroud skill in a completely unrelated tree gg to them it should be in blood magic or soul reaping.
and still my focus skills and axe skills are being shoved on cool down because this guardian/warrior/thief/engie/other necro/ranger/anything are too close to me.. not even going through me.
with each “balance update” you are making it easier to land attacks for the other classes but not this? If you want necro to be a caster class then you need to give necro’s 1200 range weapons, 600 is basically melee distance….. but even then. they can just walk over to a necro because how on earth is it going to create a gap again?
let focus and axe skills hit your opponent no matter where they are standing. its bad enough fighting through blind spam vanishing targets and over the top cc with no way to protect myself I would at least like my weapons to work…..
but the way it is now is rather pointless.. you should be able to punish someone for 1 getting hit with it and 2 pumping so many stacks of some boon on themselves….
hey ele nice 25 stacks of might (corrupt) oh… 1 second of weakness =C?………………….
I would rather they take away the corrupt reduce the cd of all corruption skills by a fair amount and just have it remove boons -.-
does corrupting some ones boons keep the duration/stacks when it is changed to a condition? from what I have seen it does not
if it doesn’t would you guys think it would be op for the corruptions to also mirror the durations/stacks of the changed boons?
at the moment, warrior’s healing signet is fine, in a very good spot and does not require further adjustments. thank you.
for your information,
warriors cannot
- enter death shroud ever, unlike necromancers
- enter stealth by themselves, unlike thieves
- apply protection boons by themselves, unlike elementalistswarriors face tanks all damage with healing signet or dodges because they do not have other options.
however, i do not oppose having a small buff to the elementalist’s healing signet.
erm…. stances and high ammounts of cc are not ways to avoid damage? who knew
oh its so fun going up against warriors constantly and not being able to put any control effects on them …. and then if you try burst them with damage they just slap on another immunity and continue to cc you into the ground how fun…..
share the love anet? put a 8 second immunity on signet of the locust
Then can I have Death Shroud piercing trait?
‘Cause it’s hella annoying fighting through 2-3 health bars in a fight while I’m melting to every condition in the game.
I agree with this. I rather face a few seconds of immunity over Death Shroud any day. I’m always happy when a necro forgets to activate it. Death Shroud is the karka of pvp. Surprise! Another health bar!
play the class then you would realise how much that “second health bar” takes away and how hard/slow it is to build. plus if you manage to give the necro multiple full bars of life force you are doing something terribly wrong =s
This is the dumbest [censored] I’ve ever read in my life. While I think the idea of blanket immunity is stupid, now that the game has them the last thing it needs is for ways to get around them.
It’s alarming that instead of asking for something reasonable like a little more mobility so you could kite targets better when they trigger immunities, you asked for something nonsensical like you should be able to rip through their immunities.
Anet has been very clear that improved mobility is off the table for necromancers, so it’s actually not that crazy to ask for some other way to counter the problem.
Plus immunities have no counterplay and therefore, IMO, are cheese, so this could help with that issue.
Also thought typing out censored was weird since the forum has its own system for that. Plus you don’t need the implication of cursing to make your point, so there’s that.
When something is so crazy that kitten just won’t do… [censored].
ANet also said Rangers are meant to be sustained DPS with no burst whatsoever. Look what happened.
And how much counterplay do you honestly want in this game? Immunity timers are the counter play to oh [censored] (cause kitten just won’t do) scenarios. Do we need a counter to a counter? And then should we get a counter to that counter? And how about a counter to that counter’s counter?
Ultimately what this thread wants is for invulnerability to become a basic boon that can be stripped. To maintain ‘balance’, the boon application would need to be on a shorter cooldown than the means to strip it. Do we really want Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, etc on a 25 second cooldown?
it would only change if someone uses a trait slot for it tho, just like some skills require using a trait slot to make skills unblockable. if someone doesn’t do that then the immunity works like normal
it doesn’t stop them taking the point at all =s
if its so insignificant then please give every class an 8-10 second invulnerability to even the playing field
so far we got mesmers , warriors, rangers, ele on the band wagon lets bring the rest in
its no different to someone using ageis regen blocks escapes only you can shut a necro down with cc. a necros protection relies on how bad/good your opponent is if they pop spectral skills stop attacking and the necro is doomed.. dodge axe 3 kite dagger =| or just cc them they cant defend against it, only specific things build death shroud . you could just bring condi cleanses to deal with the condi burst .. because necros actually have quite slow condi damaging application…. or use reduction runes. so many counters to necros its not funny
did you also know damage spills into a necros health while in death shroud to?
never said block was an immunity just pointed out it has counters and downsides unlike most immunity skills
give necro / everyone a trait that allows its attacks to go through immunity, if a class can trait to be immune then a class should be able to trait against it.
since all the people that abuse this mechanic will qq hard I propose that it just dampens the damage/durations so the immunity still does something but they cant be god mode for 8-10 seconds or in the case of diamond skin forever against a condi class….
just getting sick of getting into a fight outplaying my enemy then they just pop this magical button and heal/do what ever the f… they want (because what can I do about it?) and inevitably win because of this cheap mechanic. at least blocks prevent you attacking while using them or have some downside including unblockable skills
imagine if it worked in deathshroud
its a shame they couldn’t give 2 sh…. about what anyone has to say and just looks at their sheets of paper with numbers on it and think necro is all powerfull and only deserves nerf after nerf after nerf every update…
all the suggestions I have seen on the forum seem to make them do the opposite, just look at the last update aimed at improving our sustain… THEY DID THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!!!!!
Whether the topic is PvP or not – you decided to antagonize those who have little experience in PvP, and this is absurd to do so whether you agree with it or not… You literally call them out on their scores and imply that “they have no knowledge of how things work” – and frankly, there has been little reason for most to even have many tournaments played on the board… Or are you going to say that people like Leeto do not have enough experience in TeamQ as well, so can never formulate a decent opinion? I can assure you that though he has played more Solo than TeamQ on GW2score, that he has a better understanding of this game, the class and whatnot then you – granted, he did not partake within this discussion, but I would warn you where you decide to belittle people…
The class is uniformly bad designed – this includes PvP as well… The people you belittle are as entitled to give their opinions or feedback as you are, and if you are not willing to listen to them “because they did not play in the higher end of PvP” you are in the wrong here, and not them…
This is a discussion forum, not a “My rooster is bigger than yours”… If you have had succes with Necromancer in high end PvP – good for you… I know plenty who do, and plenty who had in the past, but discuss with those what is wrong with Necromancer and suddenly they can all wind it up to the same…Coherrent issues with how the class is designed and how it is played out in PvP gives Necromancers are role within the said gamemode that does not fit the class, does not fit the player and thus aggitates those who play it – sure you can do well, but if you look from it with a broader perspective you will notice why these people are actually complaining
This thread started as a ventilation for Moa, though a respectable Necromancer, he was wrong here – Necromancers are somewhat fine within the gamemode… Are Necromancers fine? , no they are not… far from it…
Besides, these are the forums, not a jolly wacky crew of high-end players to please each other – here you will find a collection of people who are opinionated, like to let their voices be heard and are open about it… It will always stay this way, whether you like it or not…
Complaints are everywhere, and not reserved for Necromancer (I could make millions about Warrior and it’s design), and if you cannot handle those who give their opinion, this is not the place for you…
the thing is.. when you go to the other forums there are more happy posts or posts talking about builds or what they like or posts asking for help against particular classes.
you come to the necro forums its omfg not again….. why did you do this? we are not viable, here are suggestions on how to fix the class. there is way more of this here for a reason instead of “wow this build owns check it out” , or here is a vid of me roaming/pvping here are tips and tricks etc
Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…so “second health bar” that does not even stop damage reaching your actual health bar, does not scale in team fights, takes away all forms of healing from you or your team mates, has 0 stun breakers, has 0 condi cleanse, is slow to build and uses predictable easy to avoid skills to do so is not a weakness already?
not to mention a necro has nothing to defend its self once that has been used up. fear has 3 counters, many of the skills have a cast/aftercast time making them easy to interrupt (mesmers -.-)or just dodge, our only teleports require pre casting and someone can just walk up and destroy it or have an obvious tell of where we will end up (s walk so pointless). for a caster necros skills are rather close up, 130 -600 range always within gap closing range from other classes.
but hey think what you want we all have our opinions…
What are you talking about? I never once likened death shroud to a second HP bar.
not you but many many many other people do so I just got it out of the way
Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…
[/quote]
so “second health bar” that does not even stop damage reaching your actual health bar, does not scale in team fights, takes away all forms of healing from you or your team mates, has 0 stun breakers, has 0 condi cleanse, is slow to build and uses predictable easy to avoid skills to do so is not a weakness already?
not to mention a necro has nothing to defend its self once that has been used up. fear has 3 counters, many of the skills have a cast/aftercast time making them easy to interrupt (mesmers -.-)or just dodge, our only teleports require pre casting and someone can just walk up and destroy it or have an obvious tell of where we will end up (s walk so pointless). for a caster necros skills are rather close up, 130 -600 range always within gap closing range from other classes.
but hey think what you want we all have our opinions…
They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.
That’s fine as long as it’s compensated fairly elsewhere.[/quote]
why should you get compensation? nobody else does.
why do you think I was comparing lich to supply crate? I know they are completely different skills, the thing they have in common is they can/could turn the tide of a fight. people complained lich got the nurf hammer but supply crate got nothing done to it
its funny how dhuumfire was too op on a necro but its fine on an engie… and how lich was too op but supply crate is perfectly fine… at least you could avoid lich -.- but hey anet balancing.. they think necro is the most op class in the game and just nerf nerf nerf…………………….
finally someone not brown nosing and realising how bad a state necro is in.. im sorry but is good positioning means waiting for someone to get into a fight then dropping in later then that is trash.,.. no class should require another class with them at all times to be “viable”. to peel etc. anet actually need to test the class against real people.
I don’t know why but when I try to use skills as fast as this the previous goes on cd sometimes =\
well they need to stop doing things on paper and actually test this bs.. I cant even see how a necro can look op on paper with the state its in I wish I did not start with this class and found the others interesting =C
maybe I just need to force myself to play another class for a while and forget this. I hear Mesmer is an ok class due to the fact they buff and fix its skills and abilities and I do ok when I stuff around on it now and then.
only just discovered a tanky build that can survive double hambow for quite a while and even kill one of them lol no longer functions… the moment ds runs out its gg in all team fights necro is now left with nothing to protect its self =\ being able to pop a spectral skill build up some lf and jump back into ds with life siphon usually got me past the bursts allowing me to heal up and regain some control, now its ds out bam smash gg no re because everyone waits for you to leave death shroud to burst you down
well this and the last update shows that they are never going to address the problems with necro especially when their idea of increasing our attrition is to nerf everything to do with it they may as well delete the class. not to mention they said they feel the necro is in a good place in the streams.. just wtf
they need to just hurry up and delete necros from the game instead of this slow and painful culling. they ignore the obvious issues.. I doubt they have even bothered to do test runs of peoples suggestions to see if they are op or not. they keep nerfing an already under performing class forcing it to new found grounds of below bottom tier -.-
dagger 2 still does its thing no matter where your enemy is unless they dodge
(edited by unlucky.9285)
If you dont have any port/jump skills you deserve it. But in that case a rifle warrior/nade engi/ any range attack kill you. It should be a stone/paper/scissor. I cant beat condi/range/melee with the same build and not everybody can build against me.
Gw1 was hex/condi/range/melee builds. Gw2 is much easyer. Physical melee and condi. Now the melee joined the game (but its still weak) and some people dont like it because they need to adapt :/
(And new rangers are an excelent counter of the sfr melee monoblob)necro has no defence against this…
after the first burst what are we to do 7 seconds later? reflect will still be on cd easily dodges have not returned yet the ranger has his burst back, lets not forget the increased dps doesn’t just help power builds but now they can build for sustain and still dish out enough dps to comfortably kill you
You initiate spectral walk. move away from the ranger, so that he follows you. If he doesn’t follow you, problem solved. If he does, use spectral recall, and port behind him. The same works for flesh wurm and necrotic traversals. As necros we have both an essential self portal and a high mobility tether. Learn to use them. It is some of the besr in combat mobility in the game.
Necros can facetank rapid fire
not if we cant reach you to build said death shroud. i said it before i used a ranger after the update and have never killed necros so easily, they are one of the easier professions to kill but with a ranger it was ridiculous..
Rangers don’t kill necros, bad necros kill necros.
guess I have not met a ranger stupid enough to follow me then =\ kind of obvious what you are doing with a big green trail following you or maybe they learnt from their mistakes and don’t fall for it again.
if im a bad necro then the necros I kill must just give up on life =s I rarely die to the terror “spam” you see some people complain about. power vs power I usually win but then again I don’t run the standard 6 x x x 6 build
skills do drain lf in deathshroud
1 im not talking about the auto attack but that’s my fault for not saying what specific skills
2 did you know walking backwards is slower then running forwards?
3 sure I can cast wurm or run around taking hits while using spectral walk to teleport away only to see my enemy use a gap closer and be back at square one aka pointless remember axe is only 600 range
(edited by unlucky.9285)
what you just described is just as if not more annoying then a warrior that is in my face with heal signet…. at least any skills i used that are dot do not go to waste and shoved on cd while you run off to reset the fight constantly.
Necros can facetank rapid fire
not if we cant reach you to build said death shroud. i said it before i used a ranger after the update and have never killed necros so easily, they are one of the easier professions to kill but with a ranger it was ridiculous..
shouldn’t you be using that during combat anyway?
(edited by unlucky.9285)
If you dont have any port/jump skills you deserve it. But in that case a rifle warrior/nade engi/ any range attack kill you. It should be a stone/paper/scissor. I cant beat condi/range/melee with the same build and not everybody can build against me.
Gw1 was hex/condi/range/melee builds. Gw2 is much easyer. Physical melee and condi. Now the melee joined the game (but its still weak) and some people dont like it because they need to adapt :/
(And new rangers are an excelent counter of the sfr melee monoblob)
necro has no defence against this…
after the first burst what are we to do 7 seconds later? reflect will still be on cd easily dodges have not returned yet the ranger has his burst back, lets not forget the increased dps doesn’t just help power builds but now they can build for sustain and still dish out enough dps to comfortably kill you
(edited by unlucky.9285)
i tried warrior again after the nerf and did not notice much difference really -.- your adrenaline builds ridiculously fast if anything it needs to be toned down lol! and you got more ways to build it quicker on your skills. the only dif is you cant miss switch hit with your burst, and that’s a good thing
please change axe 2 and focus skills on necro.. they are basically rendered useless against anyone who can keep rubbing their face against you because they get shoved on cool down if someone gets too close, they don’t even need to pass through me!!
you give people ways to get close (gap closers invulnerabilities) and ways to get rid of our soft cc (dogged march condi cleanses etc), at least let our weapons work while they rub their faces against me with nothing I can do about it for gods sake
axe being useless most of the time is the only reason I use dagger .. oh and it doesn’t need a target one of the only ways to kill a thief that keeps dropping it -.-
(edited by unlucky.9285)
in wvw you are all sweet even tho they killed your purpose a bit after the lich wells nerf
pvp I would say you are without a doubt one of the easiest classes to kill you have 0 defences cc will literally prevent you from using your class mechanic or doing anything really, again no defences at all… oh and anything you do will require way more effort to stay alive then the other classes.
other classes spread condis faster and easier then you and have faster cast times on their defences then you. it will always be a down hill fight. your only hard cc has 2 ways to get out of it and can also be prevented
pve lol! no chance if you are looking for people that care but with friends you will be ok but that’s about it
Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
Engis are just weak to conditions! You just have to deal with it or hope Anet wises up! Considering how stubborn they are Vee Wee doubts that will happen! The best way to deal with it is to really learn how to use the Healing Turret effectively! It’s very situational but you’ll want to clear the really damaging conditions off immediately! Long lasting burn, poison, chill, and weakness are the ones that Vee Wee tries to clear ASAP! You can take Elixir Gun for an extra condition removed every 20 seconds! It’s not the best but it helps plus it really adds to your sustsain if you stand on it!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
necro is weak to cc and I don’t see anet fixing that any time soon so why should you get you’re weakness removed -.-
welcome to the world of necro……..
I have noticed some thieves today popping sr and they are still visible while standing in it that being said there were also a lot of rangers /engies around
Thieves have control over when a fight starts and when it ends more so than any other profession. People don’t like feeling like they’re not in control. As a Thief you can engage and disengage much more easily than other professions can and you can leave people feeling paranoid by poking them then leaving in stealth.
When I first started playing GW2 I hated Thieves as well. They’re easy to hate because stealth feels unfair. But the good players, or the ones who take the time to understand it, shouldn’t be giving you a hard time.
I’ve only recently started playing Thief personally and I’m enjoying it quite a bit. I’m more than happy to receive any hate I get because I’m just going to troll anyone who takes the time to complain to me. Thief is just as balanced as any other profession, stealth is just difficult for people to deal with. It’s not OP but it is a very strong mechanic and Thieves can access it at will. I started using trapper runes on my Ranger and it makes a huuuge difference being able to disappear when ever I want. So no Thieves aren’t faceroll easy, they’re actually quite difficult to play, but their core mechanic is definitely very strong and frustrating to fight against. As long as you’re playing a Thief you’re probably going to get some hate. No one likes feeling like they have no control over the fight.
I hated thieves and always lost to them for a while but all the losses have eventually taught me how to deal with them (power necro player) still die to them really easily on a condi spec if nightmare and reapers have been activated. that steal+fear >.<..
anyway its not the no control that is the issue, its the fact that they do not follow the rules of this game act and react. you cant react to something you can’t see, it becomes a game of guess work and if you guess wrong then it can be game over. I don’t know how many times people call aoe a counter to thieves.. they just stand out of it and pew pew from the edge its not hard,
I would also say mesmers are a bigger problem with stealth abuse, they can still attack you while in stealth and imo some attacks really need to be looked at in conjunction with this, at least thief is one target. playing against a Mesmer with an abundance of stealth utilities it becomes a battle with the targeting system more so then a battle with the Mesmer =|..
warhorn 5 is mostly to keep people that want to get away from you from doing so easily =\ cough rangers cough other then that meh…
I do use focus mainly because of the boon rip just need to use it once their dodges are gone or there is almost 0 chance to hit against wise people and to chill eles =p nothing more fun then when you proc spinal shivers then proc the one traited almost after lolz
Corrosive Poison Cloud needs to reflect!
People would actually use it!
corrosive poison cloud would be more widely used if it did not weaken you for longer then your enemy =\ such stupid design
and the cast time is stupid
you got other damage buff, the bow wasn’t the only thing changed.
a shorter cast time alone is a damage buff a pre patch ranger could not dish out the same damage a post patch ranger could in the same amount of time hence a damage buff or dps buff
Another stupid anti ranger thread.
PBS -> QZ – > Rapid Fire = not one person complained about this before patch.
The increase in RF cast time did not suddenly make this combo OP.
it is true nobody complained pre patch. the problem is the increased frequency of it thanks to the increased speed of it and the damage buffs you got. if it was purely just the longbow it would be fine.
no lets give it the necro treatment like they have done to all our skills it needs a cast time increase to something humanly possible to see like a 1 second cast time with a nice big animation so we can interrupt it and keep our 2 dodges, then after that it requires a cool down increase so its not always up when you need it. that will just about do it.
where is the counterplay to your stances? if running away was a counter then lich who only kills blind people would not have been nerfed into the ground.. you can always pop stability then cc a necro and that’s 2 fear procs gone in one hit
oh so you can then just cast rapid fire knowing we are down a dodge =\ and get it anyway
50% chance when struck to inflict fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90 seconds)
Yes its on a 90 second cooldown, but I should NOT LOSE CONTROL of my character because of something I did and my enemy did NOTHING.
If this is ok, then where’s my “50% chance when struck to inflict STUN for 2 seconds.” or “50% chance when struck to inflict DAZE for 2 seconds” or “50% chance when struck to inflict KNOCKDOWN for 2 seconds” or…etc.
Just wondering????
stability is a thing =\.
and you can take away nightmare runes if we also get rid of might runes/sigils/celestial ammy.. etc etc etc